REACH 482 - What are your views on PM Lee’s Ministerial Statement? Do you have any concerns about the recent political developments ?
(SK)
02 Aug 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
02/08/2023, 11:07 am - +REACH: πΊ *Tune in to Parliament sitting for PM's statement*
PM Lee will be making a Ministerial Statement in Parliament today in light of recent political developments.
πhttps://www.youtube.com/live/Z56VJYomRNk?feature=share
02/08/2023, 2:22 pm - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
02/08/2023, 2:28 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
On 2 August, PM delivered a statement in Parliament addressing concerns about Minister Iswaran’s CPIB investigation and the resignations of former Speaker Tan Chuan-Jin and former PAP MP Cheng Li Hui.
π¬ *What are your views on PM Lee’s Ministerial Statement? Do you have any concerns about the recent political developments ?*
π *Minister Iswaran’s CPIB investigation*
PM Lee said that while investigating a "separate matter", CPIB came across some information concerning Minister Iswaran that "merited investigation". CPIB alerted Mr Lee on May 29, and pursued the lead further "on their own volition". PM Lee was briefed on the findings by the director of CPIB and gave his concurrence to open a formal investigation the next day.
PM Lee said given that such incidents involving ministers are rare, there is no rule or precedent on how to effect an interdiction on a political office holder. And as such, he used the current civil service practice as a reference point.
π *Resignations of former Speaker Tan Chuan-Jin and former PAP MP Cheng Li Hui*
PM Lee acknowledged in Parliament that he should have acted earlier on the affair and explained that “I placed much weight on protecting their families - perhaps too much”. PM Lee said: “In retrospect, and certainly now knowing how things eventually turned out, I agree. I should have forced the issue sooner”
He added that by giving the matter some time, he had hoped to give them a softer exit, and save them and their families the pain and embarrassment they are suffering now.
*ππ» https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/iswaran-s-monthly-pay-cut-to-8500-until-further-notice-amid-cpib-probe-pm-lee*
*ππ» https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/live-coverage-pm-lee-on-cpib-s-iswaran-probe-mp-resignations *
*ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/lee-hsien-loong-ministerial-statement-tan-chuan-jin-cheng-li-hui-affair-3671496?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_02082023_cna *
*ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cpib-probe-iswaran-interdicted-reduced-pay-8500-pm-lee-3671511?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_02082023_cna *
02/08/2023, 2:29 pm - ~ REACH Phone 2 changed the group description
02/08/2023, 2:29 pm - ~ REACH Phone 2 changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
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02/08/2023, 2:36 pm - +Smiley face: PM has expressed in a serious tone that our system of Governance shall always be in check, intact and no one is above the laws. It takes a while to recover these challenges of our ethos of Integrity and honesty, all for one, our nation.
Waste no more efforts delving over and over. Perhaps, there are more pressing economics and social issues that frontrun all these "passe" events...
It's over and done with, all these, at times, embarrassing things. Life itself, there is no perfection...
02/08/2023, 2:38 pm - +~L: As long as we are consistent in our forgiveness of people then all well and good. If we are forgiving of some and not others, for the same action and consequences, then we need to ask why.
02/08/2023, 2:39 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeap agree. Hope they do the same for the opposition hahaha
02/08/2023, 2:39 pm - +~L: I'd like to see our politics focus more on international and internal social and economic prosperity. I do agree the public need confidence in government based on judgement and behaviour and this will have hurt the government which in turn hurts us all.
02/08/2023, 2:42 pm - +~L: Best to have independent investigations if needed and then all parties to abide by the findings of the committee. Not sure that is possible in Singapore due to the small pool of people available to investigate, but that's the ideal.
02/08/2023, 2:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: Who are MP failed duty report should behaviour and acknowledge of political are very integrity.
02/08/2023, 3:05 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: no one is perfect. I'm glad that pm admitted that things can be better and learnt from it. he was open and honest about it. didn't give us one of those ridiculous justifications. I pray that the injured parties can heal and trust restored.
02/08/2023, 3:45 pm - +Timothy Low: My only question is: why is Iswaran still given $8500 a month for doing nothing? This amount is much higher than us ordinary people who had to slog day and night.
02/08/2023, 3:48 pm - +Sam: If innocent until proven guilty, should we pay full or pay less or force him to take no pay leave?
02/08/2023, 4:01 pm - +Ken: If not guilty I guess they would have back pay him?
02/08/2023, 4:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: According to the Public Service Division (PSD), when the Ministerial salaries were last adjusted in 2012, the monthly salary of a minister at benchmark level is $55,000, which works out to an annual salary of $1,100,000. The fixed salary is $715,000. the rest is variable.
02/08/2023, 4:10 pm - +~L: and if he is guilty does he return the 8.5k a month?
02/08/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ken: Haha… people can’t work while being investigated… hence the pay
02/08/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ken: For him to survive π
Just that the amount is not low
02/08/2023, 4:11 pm - +~L: 100k a month? He should have enough savings to be able to survive
02/08/2023, 4:11 pm - +Sam: What I mean is now he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Can his appointment as minister be terminated? If not , then is it a no pay leave or paid leave. If it is a paid leave then how much to pay? Full pay or reduced pay?
02/08/2023, 4:11 pm - +Ken: How much he save who knows?
02/08/2023, 4:11 pm - +~L: I think we can take a reasonable assumption that 100k a month is enough to make some savings. Otherwise he is not fiscally responsible and over paid....
02/08/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ken: Then again… that’s PM discretion
02/08/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ken: Not happy please vote π
02/08/2023, 4:12 pm - +~L: I do, but 1 vote doesn't give feedback on the details.
02/08/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ken: People earn a lot how he choose to spend. If it is wisely spend really no one can judge.
02/08/2023, 4:13 pm - +Ken: When enough… we will see in the upcoming elections the people still believe there is enough checks and balances
02/08/2023, 4:13 pm - +~L: Supporting a government is not a binary thing. I vote for them doesn't mean I am happy with everything that happens.
02/08/2023, 4:13 pm - +Rama: Exactly!?
02/08/2023, 4:14 pm - +Ken: Then again is a balance we decide… better or the two…
Might sometimes be what is worst…
02/08/2023, 4:14 pm - +~L: Yes, but equally being voted in doesn't mean carte blanche on everything.
02/08/2023, 4:14 pm - +Rama: Likewise
02/08/2023, 4:16 pm - +Caleb: +1
02/08/2023, 4:17 pm - +Ken: For me I am the no count vote… lol to protest…
But it is scary if we vote opposition in cause we don’t like the current government
02/08/2023, 4:17 pm - +Ken: But then again futures in our hands how many dare to gamble π
02/08/2023, 4:22 pm - +Smiley face: c'est la vie...
02/08/2023, 4:24 pm - +Rama: Agree
02/08/2023, 4:28 pm - +Ken: lol π
02/08/2023, 4:29 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. As it stands, Iswaran case is still under investigation - no information whether innocent or guilty until and unless he is charged and prosecuted in court.
2. Hence, a much reduced salary is given for him to tie through until the logical conclusion is made - seems a logical outcome.
a. He is still innocent until proven guilty.
b. He is not doing any work - ministerial or MP work while being investigated.
3. His pay will be reinstated if found innocent, or he will lose all his current pay if prove guilty.
4. No right or wrong answer - as everything depends on the final outcome of the investigation and prosecution.
02/08/2023, 4:29 pm - +KL: Hmm, why no one tell their bosses the potential issue ? Even if right I think most of the thing can be avoid . I will advise my bosses if my bosses are nice :) , final say is still stay with bosses thou . <This message was edited>
02/08/2023, 4:30 pm - +Smiley face: Hi Ken,
Hoping that our new batch of eligible voters for presidential election and followed by GE25; they will vote using their head and lesser with their hearts?
Thanks, Ken
02/08/2023, 4:31 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
"No issue for Christopher de Souza to remain as Deputy Speaker, MP after acquittal: Observers".
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/no-issue-for-christopher-de-souza-to-remain-deputy-speaker-mp-after-acquittal-observers#:~:text=No%20issue%20for%20Christopher%20de%20Souza%20to%20remain%20as%20Deputy%20Speaker%2C%20MP%20after%20acquittal%3A%20Observers
02/08/2023, 4:32 pm - +Rama: Likewise
02/08/2023, 4:32 pm - +Rama: Hogwash!
02/08/2023, 4:34 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
His case drag on for a few years with color lens befall on him for a few years - where finally he is acquitted of all charges.
Hence as we watch and wait holding our breath, we will have to wait for the outcome without prejudice.
What give us confidence about the integrity of the government - is that the system is allowed to run unimpeded and due process are not hindered while doing so - so that justice can work itself out. <This message was edited>
02/08/2023, 4:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Depends if the perceived unfairness and high handedness goes on and if opposition strategic it will be 45/55
02/08/2023, 4:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: 45 percent opposition and 55 PAP
02/08/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: At least, he should be suspended while being accused just like iswaran!
02/08/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Will these remove two third majority!?
02/08/2023, 4:48 pm - +lesli: <Media omitted>
02/08/2023, 4:57 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Does it also mean that Pritam Singh and Sylvia lim should also be suspended - pending the outcome of AHTC lawsuit?
02/08/2023, 5:02 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
On 2 August, PM delivered a statement in Parliament addressing concerns about Minister Iswaran’s CPIB investigation and the resignations of former Speaker Tan Chuan-Jin and former PAP MP Cheng Li Hui.
π¬ *What are your views on PM Lee’s Ministerial Statement? Do you have any concerns about the recent political developments ?*
π *Minister Iswaran’s CPIB investigation*
PM Lee said that while investigating a "separate matter", CPIB came across some information concerning Minister Iswaran that "merited investigation". CPIB alerted Mr Lee on May 29, and pursued the lead further "on their own volition". PM Lee was briefed on the findings by the director of CPIB and gave his concurrence to open a formal investigation the next day.
PM Lee said given that such incidents involving ministers are rare, there is no rule or precedent on how to effect an interdiction on a political office holder. And as such, he used the current civil service practice as a reference point.
π *Resignations of former Speaker Tan Chuan-Jin and former PAP MP Cheng Li Hui*
PM Lee acknowledged in Parliament that he should have acted earlier on the affair and explained that “I placed much weight on protecting their families - perhaps too much”. PM Lee said: “In retrospect, and certainly now knowing how things eventually turned out, I agree. I should have forced the issue sooner”
He added that by giving the matter some time, he had hoped to give them a softer exit, and save them and their families the pain and embarrassment they are suffering now.
*ππ» https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/iswaran-s-monthly-pay-cut-to-8500-until-further-notice-amid-cpib-probe-pm-lee*
*ππ» https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/live-coverage-pm-lee-on-cpib-s-iswaran-probe-mp-resignations *
*ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/lee-hsien-loong-ministerial-statement-tan-chuan-jin-cheng-li-hui-affair-3671496?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_02082023_cna *
*ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cpib-probe-iswaran-interdicted-reduced-pay-8500-pm-lee-3671511?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_02082023_cna *
02/08/2023, 5:29 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I am at HDB hub surfing my handphone.
2 policemen give me some brochures from SPF and CSA about cyber security and to scan a QR code to answer some cyber security quiz.
I told them the problem of using biometric authentication in CPF.
If scammers steal our biometric data, we will lose our authentication forever and scammers can access all our account and we cannot change.
The 2 policemen were stump and think for quite sometime.
Then one say did I feedback to the government.
I say I did.
They then say ok and walk away - but their body language tell me that they have not thought about it - and my concern hit home.
02/08/2023, 5:29 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Now got voice synthesizers - can synthesize a person's voice with 30s voice sample. So it means that don't anyhow answer phone call. The caller may be capturing your voice and thereafter use it to synthesize for scamming purposes
02/08/2023, 5:29 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes.
Biometric authentication has this problem.
Unique to the person.
Once stolen, lost forever.
02/08/2023, 5:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
02/08/2023, 5:44 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
He kenna malware downloaded.
Then userid, password OTP stolen and bank account kenna access.
02/08/2023, 5:59 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Law society found him lacking.
Lee and Lee argued for him and he is innocent. He didn’t hv the “intention”.
I for one will never hire chris as my lawyer for anything!
02/08/2023, 6:39 pm - +KL: NSF is it ? Can’t blame them if nsf :)) or even regular . I think issue lies with civil not public right :) as most public servants are NSF :( . <This message was edited>
02/08/2023, 6:40 pm - +Rama: Likewise
02/08/2023, 6:56 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Well both of them wear police uniform, carry guns, walkie talkie - their badges didn't show whether they are regular or NSF.
Only thing I don't understand, alot of people sitting in the podium, some surfing in their handphone.
Not sure why they pick me.
Also good thing I can have a good chat with them.
They seems to know cybersecurity pretty well.l - as they know 2fa, iris, malware etc.
02/08/2023, 7:08 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ: <Media omitted>
02/08/2023, 7:44 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/eqaGcz2_LhM
02/08/2023, 7:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
02/08/2023, 7:58 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/tyB-bdG7wg8
02/08/2023, 8:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
02/08/2023, 8:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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