0. NDR Rally 2023
REACH
20 Aug 2023
20/08/2023, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
Welcome back! 😊
⏰ We will be opening the chat from *6pm to 10pm* today. ⏰
📍 *Please share your feedback on the National Day Rally speeches as they are being delivered LIVE today.*📍
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20/08/2023, 2:03 pm - +REACH: *📺 PM Lee to deliver National Day Rally speech today from 6.45pm.*
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong will deliver his National Day Rally speech today.
Tune in to his speeches: in Malay at 6.45pm, in Mandarin at 7pm, and in English from 8pm.
_National Day Rally speech (English):_
📌https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcWWbx6pXU
_National Day Rally speech (Malay and Mandarin):_
📌https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpXq6UrUGzI
_For more information on the National Day Rally speeches:_
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/pm-lee-hsien-loong-national-day-rally-ndr-aug-20-3697426
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20/08/2023, 6:04 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
20/08/2023, 6:07 pm - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
Welcome back! 😊
⏰ We will be opening the chat from *6pm to 10pm* today. ⏰
📍 *Please share your feedback on the National Day Rally speeches as they are being delivered LIVE today.*📍
+++
*House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:*
1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views.
2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.
3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.
4. No need to repeat your comment or in differnet forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.
5. Let's protect each other's privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential.
*Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms*
We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.
Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.
Thank you.
20/08/2023, 6:30 pm - +REACH: *📺 PM Lee to deliver National Day Rally speech in Malay & Mandarin at 6.45pm onwards*
_National Day Rally speech (Malay and Mandarin):_
📌https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpXq6UrUGzI
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20/08/2023, 6:47 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Noticed that increasingly in the recent BTO flats launch, there are no 5 rooms flats in the mature estate.
2. Can only be found in far-fetched of non-mature estate eg. Tengah.
3. Some young couples may require a bigger flats eg. 5 room flats near their parents as they want to have more children and need spaces.
4. Wonder will HDB consider having some 5 room flats in mature estates as well?
20/08/2023, 6:50 pm - +Caleb: where the eng translation?
20/08/2023, 6:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Noticed that BTO flats are getting more expensive - at least $450,000 and above in non-mature estate; more than $500,000 for mature estate.
2. More and more money will be locked up in BTO flats and lesser for retirement.
3. Hence, wonder will Government consider monetizing BTO flats when the lease has 40 years left - so that young couples can have more money for retirement.
20/08/2023, 6:51 pm - +Rama: 8pm
20/08/2023, 6:52 pm - +Rama: English speech
20/08/2023, 6:52 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
English translation come out in Channel 5.
20/08/2023, 6:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
REACH - Suggest remove income ceiling eligibility when applying to BTO flats.
17 Aug 2023
1. With reference to the income ceiling eligibility of $14,000 monthly combined income of young couples to apply to BTO flats, I will like to urge HDB to consider to remove this criteria in the application of BTO flats.
2. The reasons being :-
a. The income ceiling is based on 1 year assessment of the young couple combine income per month.
But the capital housing loan outlay from CPF, HDB or banks are 20, 25 or 30 years.
Wonder how does 1 years assessment of the young couple combine income of $14,000 can determine the young couple belongs to the upper income group - when the capital outlay of housing loans are more than 20 years old?
Because :-
i. Either one or both couples may lose their jobs along the way - and their combine income will drop by half or all if the situations arise - and drop out of the upper income group. Forcing the young couples to buy private non-BTO flats will induce undue financial burden on them.
ii. The business cycle nowadays are very short - no longer 5 to 10 years - in fact 2 to 3 years could be the norm - with the advent of disruptive tech, AI, and automation.
Young couple career disruption along the way is highly likely - as many real cases demonstrate this - and they will not be able to finance non-BTO flat.
iii. Even though 67 or 68 years old is the official retirement age, many mature workers start losing their jobs by the time they hit 50 years old. Even if mature workers can eventually finance their houses, they will leave with very little CPF or cash for their retirement.
Hence, imposing income ceiling eligibility for the application of BTO flats - will unnecessary burden young couples from starting a marriage, raising kids and boost our population TFR which is already very low at 1.05.
Young couples may decide to postpone marriage, or stay single, and if married will not have kids or have lesser number of kids.
iv. Most of the time, many young couples are unsuccessful in getting a queue for the BTO flats. Many are not successful in the 1st few tries. In fact, social media circulate that some couples have been doing 7 tries and yet not successful.
By the time, young couples are finally successful after the many number of tries, their income ceiling eligbility may already get hit - and they may no longer be qualified to apply for a BTO flat.
This is unfair to the young couples due to a system that are congested with high demand and inadequate supply - causing the young couple to be ineligible for the BTO flat that are not their fault - due to the income ceiling eligibility.
v. As highlighted by a new articles Dollar and Sense, it rightly reported that :-
"Is The HDB Monthly Household Income Ceiling Still Relevant Amid Higher Wages & Inflation?
In 2019, 22.4% of households have a monthly income of $14,000 or more. In 2022, this has increased to 25.5%." 16 Aug 2023 https://dollarsandsense.sg/hdb-monthly-household-income-ceiling-still-relevant-amid-higher-wages-inflation/#:~:text=DollarsAndSense.sg-,COLUMNS,of%20%2414%2C000%20or%20more.%20In%202022%2C%20this%20has%20increased%20to%2025.5%25.,-b
Hence I will like to urge HDB to seriously consider to remove income ceiling eligibility of $14,000 in the application of BTO flats - for all Singaporeans so that young couples can have a fair shot to apply for a BTO flat to raise a family, get married and have kids.
20/08/2023, 7:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Reasons being:-
Assume young couples married at 28 years old + 40 years lease= 68 years old.
Monetise flats - still got retirement money to last through old age.
20/08/2023, 7:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I mean 60 years lease left.
20/08/2023, 7:18 pm - +Uncle Law: 8pm
20/08/2023, 7:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore to roll out targeted support for those in 50s and early 60s to cope with cost of living, retirement.
This group has been “particularly concerned” about the cost of living as they are approaching retirement, says Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. CNA news
20/08/2023, 7:33 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Certainly want to hear more about what targeted support are given and how is this funded. <This message was edited>
20/08/2023, 7:35 pm - +Rama: Any chance of seeing a Majullah Card just like Pioneer and Merdeka!?
20/08/2023, 7:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahaha....
A good idea.
20/08/2023, 7:36 pm - +Rama: 🤷♂️
20/08/2023, 7:40 pm - +Smley face: Good idea ..
Majulah Card...MC
20/08/2023, 7:45 pm - +REACH: *📺 PM Lee to deliver National Day Rally speech in English at 8pm.*
_National Day Rally speech (English)_
📌https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcWWbx6pXU
_Latest from NDR 2023:_
👉Govt studying if Assurance Package can be enhanced to help S’poreans cope with GST hike
📌https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ndr-2023-govt-studying-if-assurance-package-can-be-enhanced-to-help-s-poreans-cope-with-gst-hike
👉Upgrading works for Geylang Serai Market, Joo Chiat Complex to begin soon
📌https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ndr-2023-upgrading-works-for-geylang-serai-market-joo-chiat-complex-to-begin-soon
20/08/2023, 7:52 pm - +~L: Maybe there should be a way to manage the cost of a property over the MOP, so if a couple is eligible for a BTO on a freakish low earnings year they have to pay more later when their earnings go up.
20/08/2023, 7:52 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
He noted the flipside of such opportunities is the anxiety that jobs may be lost as trends shift, due to factors such as automation or artificial intelligence.
“We can certainly expect more job disruptions. More of our workers will be affected by such disruptions and may lose their jobs several times throughout their careers,” he said.
Existing schemes such as the SkillsFuture Career Transition Programme and Workforce Singapore’s Career Conversion Programme help workers here learn new skills and move to different industries. But he is also aware that workers facing financial pressure may find it difficult to go for such training.
As such, a new scheme is being developed to offer temporary financial support for retrenched workers as they upgrade their skills, he said. More details to be shared once the Forward SG initiative is completed.
20/08/2023, 7:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
This is certainly a real concern as experience by many mature workers.
Certainly want to hear more of such scheme and how it provides genuine help to workers whose jobs are disrupted along the way.
20/08/2023, 7:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s good to start at this moment when there is new SG upskill older replacements
20/08/2023, 7:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: More benefit than pioneer card. <This message was edited>
20/08/2023, 7:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
20/08/2023, 8:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s should be useful AI benefit human replacement worker.
https://www.retorio.com/blog/5-benefits-artificial-intelligence-in-human-resources
20/08/2023, 8:04 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
PM Lee says SAF need to be stronger - as geopolitical tension is getting more acute, global supply chain get disrupted and global warming trigger more extreme weather and hit food crops.
Ironically, a President candidate say he want to talk to PM to shorten National Service.
20/08/2023, 8:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
20/08/2023, 8:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Your majullah package announced by PM Lee
20/08/2023, 8:12 pm - +Rama: Yes
20/08/2023, 8:12 pm - +Rama: It will also cover pioneer and merdeka package!
20/08/2023, 8:12 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
$7 billion package
20/08/2023, 8:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: Great
20/08/2023, 8:13 pm - +Caleb: all the cost of live higher, and GST collected goes here
20/08/2023, 8:13 pm - +Rama: Yes
20/08/2023, 8:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: 1.4m singaporean older 50+ 😨
20/08/2023, 8:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: LHL won’t make speeches in 2030
20/08/2023, 8:16 pm - +Rama: Yes
20/08/2023, 8:16 pm - +Rama: 🤷♂️😳😟😔😞😒
20/08/2023, 8:17 pm - +Rama: LW most probably
20/08/2023, 8:33 pm - +~L: I think this is a valid debate, to review length of NS for everyone. Maybe there are circumstances where its beneficial for some to do 1 year rather than 2, and also waive the annual requirement which might be causing a skills drain to overseas.
20/08/2023, 8:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
A proficient armed forces need 2 years.
1 year in training.
1 year in battalion, brigade and division exercise and overseas exposure.
The geopolitical landscape is getting more hostile and we cannot be more and more lay back.
20/08/2023, 8:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore police refute allegations that coast guard entered Malaysian waters; Johor politician calls for remap of maritime borders.
The Kota Iskandar state assemblyman claimed that a Singapore maritime boat had damaged the nets belonging to four local fishermen. Does Tan Kin Lian think that we can shorten our National Service - when bigger neighbors can push us around? https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-police-refute-allegations-coast-guard-entered-malaysian-waters-johor-politician-calls-remap-maritime-borders-3710961
20/08/2023, 8:36 pm - +~L: I just think we should review this properly and not accept that without understanding it.
20/08/2023, 8:37 pm - +~L: Are you stirring up conflict with Malaysia?
20/08/2023, 8:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I personally have experience near armed conflict in my life time.
Live ammunition are drawn.
Only those at the forefront knows what is going on.
20/08/2023, 8:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
This is a news report.
I am not stirring up trouble.
20/08/2023, 8:37 pm - +~L: Because what you seem to be saying is that because we have a big army, Malaysia can't say anything bad or we will go to war?
20/08/2023, 8:38 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
We need a strong army to be a deterrent.
20/08/2023, 8:39 pm - +~L: We have and will continue to have one yes. I'm questioning if every male needs to go for 2 years, at the huge cost to our economy, plus annual attendance that causes many to work overseas casuig further damage to our economy.
20/08/2023, 8:40 pm - +~L: Are you at war on the front lines? I don't understand what you are saying about being at the forefront.
20/08/2023, 8:40 pm - +~L: I'm saying we should review this. Why are you saying we should not?
20/08/2023, 8:40 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
PM Lee say we need strong armed forces.
Our security experts say we need strong armed forces.
So you say is not.
Tan Kin Lian say is not.
Both of you smarter than the government?
20/08/2023, 8:41 pm - +~L: I'm saying we should review it.
20/08/2023, 8:41 pm - +~L: Army says we need a big army. Wow, what a surprise.
20/08/2023, 8:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes 3 times - and is classified.
I can't say more.
20/08/2023, 8:42 pm - +~L: So you are on the front lines (in Ukraine?)
20/08/2023, 8:42 pm - +~L: I didn't realise Singapore is in Active war right now, maybe we should be told about this.
20/08/2023, 8:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
No need to play on words.
But if you are not in the security space - be prudent in what you say.
20/08/2023, 8:43 pm - +~L: I'm supportive of SAF by the way, I'm just saying it's ok to review things to see if they are still valid.
20/08/2023, 8:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Because you are compromising our national security.
20/08/2023, 8:44 pm - +~L: You said you are at war on the front lines.
20/08/2023, 8:44 pm - +~L: <Media omitted>
20/08/2023, 8:44 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
No I didn't say that.
I am only saying we are in near confrontation with live ammo drawn.
20/08/2023, 8:45 pm - +~L: I am compromising national security on the Reach WhatsApp group by saying there is a case to review NS? Omg, what is the presidential candidate doing then?
20/08/2023, 8:46 pm - +~L: What does that have to do with a debate on reviewing the length of service of NS?
20/08/2023, 8:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I am saying you have no info. in the security space and yet you are time and again asking national service to relax.
20/08/2023, 8:46 pm - +~L: Relax? How do you draw that conclusion?
20/08/2023, 8:47 pm - +~L: I'm saying we have to review to gather info.
20/08/2023, 8:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I have say my piece and I don't intend to argue with you on this.
But I am telling you, many things are classified and not for public domain.
But relaxing national service is a no-no.
20/08/2023, 8:48 pm - +~L: Not many countries have 2 year NS. They are not all being attacked. Singapore is unique yes, but equally a lot of NS people say 2 years is too long and a lot of time spent doing nothing.
20/08/2023, 8:49 pm - +~L: I'm not arguing, I just said the presidentential candidate has a point to say it's ok to review the length of service forn18-20 year old doing NS.
20/08/2023, 8:49 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And Singapore don't have big buffer space like Ukraine.
Once over run - we are all dead.
20/08/2023, 8:49 pm - +~L: You are taking issue with that.
20/08/2023, 8:49 pm - +~L: All dead?
20/08/2023, 8:50 pm - +~L: Anyway, let's move on...
20/08/2023, 8:58 pm - +Rama: Change to terms of NS must be carefully studied
20/08/2023, 8:58 pm - +~L: Exactly
20/08/2023, 9:01 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
And the best people who study this are the armed forces, generals, security experts, home team and the government - who have access to geopolitical landscape, threats and intelligence.
Not ignorant people shooting off the mouth without knowledge of the threat we are facing.
20/08/2023, 9:03 pm - +Rama: I second that!
20/08/2023, 9:03 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Just look at Taiwan, they scrap conscription, scale back army service period.
Now with heighten threat they scrambled to lengthen their national service.
20/08/2023, 9:05 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Ukraine scrap all their nuclear weapons based on pledge they will not be attacked.
And they relax their armed forces given security guarantee by Russia.
Now Russia is the force that attack them - and look at the suffering of Ukrainian. <This message was edited>
20/08/2023, 9:05 pm - +Rama: Massive incompetence and lack of foresight!
20/08/2023, 9:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Exactly do we want to be like them as suggested by this tkl and some ignorant people?
20/08/2023, 9:06 pm - +Rama: So, don't blindly open your mouth to ask for reduction in serving NS without understanding the dire consequences for our future!
20/08/2023, 9:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I can tell you, we almost get invaded 3 times in our lifetimes.
3 times, luckily our armed forces are very strong - and the plan are given up.
Some ignorant people don't even know how dangerous we are and just shoot off their mouths.
20/08/2023, 9:08 pm - +Rama: TĶL for one!
20/08/2023, 9:09 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
He even better, want to raid our reserves.
20/08/2023, 9:09 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
20/08/2023, 9:10 pm - +Rama: 😳 another WP moron!
20/08/2023, 9:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/national-day-rally-2023-hdb-housing-standard-plus-prime-bto-3711446
20/08/2023, 9:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Removed mature and non mature
20/08/2023, 9:32 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
20/08/2023, 9:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
They are all classified.
20/08/2023, 9:44 pm - +KL: This message was deleted
20/08/2023, 9:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
20/08/2023, 9:49 pm - +Uncle Law: my contribution for today's chat/NDR
1) HDB need to re-look on the income ceiling as income increases, they are forced to buy private which may be out of reach for some of these group of Singaporeans
2) Perhaps is good to consider lowering the minimum age for Singles to 32 or 30. No doubt public housing caters towards family, however let's not forget the Singles who have contributed to our nation building. Some choose to be Single for various reason. It could be for livehood, to look after elderly parents and etc
3) Perhaps is also good to look at more avenues for Singles to come together to socialise and thru such activities, they can look forward to form a family <This message was edited>
20/08/2023, 9:54 pm - +~L: Agree with all these points!
20/08/2023, 9:59 pm - +Smley face: This message was deleted
20/08/2023, 10:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
20/08/2023, 10:00 pm - +Smley face: 20 August, 2023
"Par Excellence!"
PM Lee has delivered an excellent national rally speech.
He answered many urgent and crucial and at times of uncertainties. The ageing challenges, our medical and CPF enhancement programs, our hearty HDB housings issues; one at a time he turned each stone to unveal and answered the solutions to our nation's present challenges, our anxious minds and our future comings.
Never forget our country history, our humble beginning and our pioneer generations effort in creating today's modern Singapore!
Majulah Singapura!
- - in progress - -
20/08/2023, 10:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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