REACH 267 - View on reopening to vaccinated overseas travellers and home isolation (SK)
20 Aug 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:47 am, 20/08/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[10:01 am, 20/08/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
The Ministry of Health (MOH) on Thursday (Aug 19) said the higher vaccination rates among the population provide a foundation for the country to introduce vaccination-differentiated border measures for travellers, such as the new Vaccinated Travel Lane (VTL). As part of its gradual shift towards living with the disease, Singapore will start a pilot programme for mildly ill Covid-19 patients to recover at home from Aug 30.
💬 How do you feel about Singapore’s approach to reopening of our borders to vaccinated individuals through the differentiated measures for countries? As we progress towards an endemic COVID-19, what do you think of the new community measures such as, the pilot home isolation scheme, and vaccination of children below 12 years old next year?
Under the new VTL from Sept 8, fully vaccinated passengers to and from Singapore can travel without quarantine. They will instead have to undergo four Covid-19 polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests, including one to be taken before the flight. This will be the first time residents can go for quarantine-free leisure travel since the Republic shuts its borders in March last year.
People will qualify for the home isolation scheme if they have mild or no symptoms and can be isolated from the rest of the household, said the Ministry of Health (MOH) on Thursday (Aug 19). Giving more details on the home isolation pilot, MOH said all household members will be placed on home quarantine for as long as the patient is isolated.
Booster shots of the Covid-19 vaccine are being studied, while a third dose is being considered for those who have severely compromised immune systems, said the multi-ministry task force on Covid-19 on Thursday (Aug 19).The vaccination of children below 12 years old should also start some time early next year, after the safety and efficacy aspects have been studied.
Health Minister Ong Ye Kung, who co-chairs the task force, said: "We will very likely have to start a booster exercise. (Other) countries started vaccinations earlier than us, and we therefore now have the advantage of observing them and learning from their experiences."
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[10:20 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: How do you feel about Singapore’s approach to reopening of our borders to vaccinated individuals through the differentiated measures for countries? - Good start. I'd really like to see more flexibility for travel. If someone arrives, with a negative test on departure and arrival, and does 3 day in Q/SDF, then tests negative again they should be free to roam. Then another test 3 days later and if negative again then no more tests.
[10:21 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: For vaccinated people that is. No entry for non-vax, unless due to a medical condition and then 14 days QO.
[10:23 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: Good to see under 12's will be vaccinated. As soon as the trials are concluded I hope we have supplies ready.
[10:24 am, 20/08/2021] +Joseph Ong: As always, the policies and measures are sound...on paper.
I worry about the implementation and enforcement bit.
[10:25 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: I'm confused why we need boosters for mRNA vaccines. Are they improved vaccines? Or just the same again? If we might need boosters does that mean we are not properly protected now, or is it just the some people's bodies don't take to it. More information please.
[10:26 am, 20/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: I strongly agree with this
[10:27 am, 20/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: The different tier countries is a good policy, however travelers might use that to end the country with less restrictions.
[11:08 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: That's ok because they need to have been in those countries for 21 days before.
[11:09 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: SO go whereever you like, then spend 21 days in Germany before coming back (if you can)
[11:13 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: frank already seen on ground how some travellers are beating the system
[11:13 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: recently i learnt one brit travell to swiss, stay there for 2 weeks den inbound to singapore
[11:13 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: is like how indians are making their way globally via middle east airports
[11:14 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: so whatever outside do our onshore defense must not let guard
[11:14 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: if we need to swap them 12 times so be it
[11:14 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: all you need is one detected infection and that will reveal how many undetected are roaming again
[11:15 am, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: hope we dun go into 3 strike rule which we already used up 2 changi and fishery ......
[11:17 am, 20/08/2021] +Rama: A calculated but necessary move
[11:46 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: maybe they should show evidence of being in the correct country for 21days?
[11:47 am, 20/08/2021] +Ben: Just flying in from Germany and saying they have been there for 21 days does open up quite an easy back door. Especially since there are not border restrictions in the EU.
[0:14 pm, 20/08/2021] +m6dm6n: Am more concerned how this will impact the non vaccinated kids (below 12). Bear in mind, vaccinated doesn't mean you cannot be a carrier with mild or no symptom. We also seen that today test negative, 3 days later test positive despite being isolated.
[0:36 pm, 20/08/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtube.com/shorts/3NvTvH07Vlg?feature=share
[0:47 pm, 20/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: Yes this was the case previously
[0:55 pm, 20/08/2021] +Smiley face: Risks & Rewards:
The inbound tourism industry and complimentary trades will begin to regain footings and improve with the gradual opening up of approved countries with low covid risk. The risk of cross geography infections of D or future variants of covid are unavoidable risks,, this case all inbound tourists and visitors from approved low risk countries - specifically cat I follows by cat II.
[1:59 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. As we hit a high vaccination rate - 77% 2 jabs and 82% 1 jab - it is imperative we need secure our air hub and sea hub quickly - as the longer we wait - the greater the danger that our air and sea hub will be bypass - thus resulting in long term economic damage - in which we thrive on.
2. However, we must take note that there are still 2 vulnerable groups of population that has yet to vaccinate - 1 is the 12 years old and below and 2 is the remaining elderly group that are most vulnerable to covid.
We must not let up our efforts to reach out and vaccinate the remaining elderly (including Mandatory Vaccination if necessary once full and final approval are granted for mRNA vaccines).
As for 12 years old and below, once the trial is completed and safe to vaccinate - this group, estimated to be early 2022 - we must attempt to cover them.
Meanwhile, the Government must ensure these 2 groups must not be exposed to unnecessary risks - as we slowly open up to overseas travellers.
The recent hospitalisation and death are mainly unvaccinated elderly - thus stronger push (including mandatory vaccination) must be implemented - to protect them maybe necessary.
Only then the entire population will feel safe and resassure when this particularly vulnerable group is protected - and will not overwhelm the hospital resources and post undue strain to our medical staff and our national resources.
3. It is assuring that the Government will :-
a. Only allow vaccinated overseas travvllers to come to Singapore.
b. Need to conduct PCR tests while they are here to ensure they are not infected
though they will not need to be quarantine. This is the same safety profile as our vaccinated population here.
4. The pilot home isolation for mild or asymptomatic patients - if house at home with the rest of the vaccinated household - without vulnerable people such as elderly or children - should be safe.
5. Though there are some breakthrough cases against the mRNA vaccines, Israel insightful statistics and study reveal that mRNA vaccines are still highly effective in curbing Delta variants - more than 80% to 90% and in some group even 100% efficacy.
Hence will need to carefully study whether the general population needs a 3rd booster jab other than those immunocompromised people.
[1:59 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated
Israel insight statistics show that in every granular age groups - Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine has been very effective against Delta variants.
[2:03 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/covid-19-vaccines-may-trigger-superimmunity-people-who-had-sars-long-ago Current covid-19 vaccines may trigger super-immunity that develop anti-bodies not only against covid, but also SARs and other future coronavirus type of virus.
[2:03 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The vaccines under study is the mRNA vaccines - Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.
[2:06 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore won't reach herd immunity.
Hence 100% vaccination is essential.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-wont-reach-covid-herd-immunity-lawrence-wong-141927382.html
[2:06 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/covid-vaccines-prevented-nearly-100-133115802.html
Covid vaccines have prevented nearly 100,000 deaths in England, official figures suggest.
[2:13 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Almost all countries health authorities confirm that herd immunity is not possible to stop the delta variants given the high reproduction number reported by the various health authorities.
2. UK initial report R0 = 5 to 8 (smallpox) where herd immunity of 80% vaccination is say to be possible.
3. US report R0 = 8 to 9 (chickenpox) where herd immunity of 90 - 95% vaccination is say to be possible.
4. Malaysia latest report R0 > 10 where only 100% vaccination is essential to stop the Delta variants.
5. Thus 100% vaccination and if necessary through Mandatory Vaccination - to push the remaining harden group over the finishing line will be required - once US FDA grant the full and final approval - should be seriously considered.
6. No one is safe - unless everyone is safe.
[2:14 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://malaysia.yahoo.com/news/best-brains-dr-noor-hisham-070354297.html Malaysia study - R0 > 10. Higher than US study of R0 = 8 to 9 (chickenpox).
Much higher than UK study of R0 = 5 to 8 (smallpox).
[2:14 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Malaysia medical experts say Delta variants R0 > 10.
Higher than US study of R0 = 8 to 9 (chickenpox).
Much higher than UK study of R0 = 5 to 8 (smallpox).
[2:18 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/third-pfizer-dose-86-effective-in-over-60s-says-israel-healthcare-provider A 3rd jab booster only 86% effective.
[2:18 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/vaccine-effectiveness-against-covid-19-may-wane-say-us-cdc-studies
US CDC say vaccine effectiveness to prevent covid spreading may wane over times. This can be seen from the breakthrough cases and some elderly with underlying medical conditions succumb to covid despite full Vaccination.
But protection against serious illness or death remains.
US, Israel, Germany and France booster shot are given to those who have weaker immune system such as the elderly, and frontline health care staff - and not the general population - after 8 months of 2nd jab.
Some medical experts however say that the booster shot benefits are minimal - that can easily be provided by wearing a mask.
[2:55 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Note :-
Malaysia vaccination rate < US vaccination rate < UK vaccination rate.
UK vaccination rate is higher hence lower R0.
US vaccination rate is lower than UK hence higher R0.
Malaysia vaccination rate is lower than both US and UK - hence R0 > 10.
[2:57 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The results show that higher the vaccination rate among the population - the lower the delta spread.
Hence 100% vaccination is essential to stop Delta.
[2:58 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
If Singapore want to go endemic - 100% vaccination is the only solution.
[3:12 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
HK adopt China zero covid strategy. Singapore adopt endemic strategy.
Both are opposite sides of the coin.
China in particular view endemic as Western concept which oppose to China nationalist view.
Hence, Singapore should do "Middle Path" approach to bridge the endemic concept and zero covid concept - so as to start travelling between Singapore and HK and China.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3145691/hong-kong-singapore-travel-bubble-differing-covid
[3:16 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. Singapore can promote the concept of "Controlled endemic" with high vaccination (100% vaccination if possible).
That's step by step reopening with safeguard and not uncontrolled endemic.
The middle path between zero covid and full endemic.
[3:17 pm, 20/08/2021] +Thomas: I suspect they adopt zero covid startegy is due to their vaccine efficacy
[3:17 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
HK and China to be East Asia regional nodes may bite
[3:17 pm, 20/08/2021] +Thomas: It will show up if they approach endemic and they are not ready
[3:18 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes. That's why China is exploring the mRNA Fosun-BioNTech mRNA vaccines.
[3:18 pm, 20/08/2021] +Thomas: China is talking about Phizer that is mfg under a China name for booster
[3:19 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Only when China approve and roll out this mRNA vaccines - HK will follow suit.
And our middle path control endemic will be a good concept for them.
Because China trust Singapore.
[3:20 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Whether Pfizer or Fosun-BioNTech mRNA vaccines - as long as nationalism don't disrupt the process.
[3:35 pm, 20/08/2021] +~N: Hong Kong is already using Pfizer vaccine. Around the same time that Singapore started using.
[3:37 pm, 20/08/2021] +~N: On 25 January and 18 February 2021 respectively, the Secretary for Food and Health authorized the COVID-19 vaccine by Fosun Pharma/BioNTech (Comirnaty) and that by Sinovac Biotech (Hong Kong) Limited (CoronaVac) for emergency use in Hong Kong in accordance with the Regulation.
https://www.covidvaccine.gov.hk/en/vaccine
[3:43 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hk align to China policy.
If China don't use and endorse endemic, HK won't move.
[3:45 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Because HK needs China market.
[3:54 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
It is a political decision
[3:59 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/chinas-fauci-probed-plagiarism-questioning-063524643.html
In China, if any views are raised that is contrary to official view - can be probe later as anti-nationalist and subjected to fault finding.
Thus be careful when expressing views on China.
[4:08 pm, 20/08/2021] +Smiley face: https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-wont-reach-covid-herd-immunity-lawrence-wong-141927382.html
[4:12 pm, 20/08/2021] +REACH: 8 eateries ordered to close, 59 people fined for flouting breaching Covid-19 rules
Eight food and beverage outlets have been ordered to close, while 22 eateries and 59 people have been fined for flouting Covid-19 safe distancing rules, the Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment said on Friday (Aug 20).
The eight eateries were ordered to close for between 10 and 20 days for breaching multiple safe management measures.
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/8-eateries-ordered-to-close-59-people-fined-for-flouting-breaching-covid-19-rules
[4:27 pm, 20/08/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Between a zero-covid approach and an endemic approach, the former is easier to manage.
The zero covid approach needs 3 key steps -(1) shut the border (2) clean up and (3) wait out. But few countries can afford this approach in the long run. And Singapore cannot. So it is no choice that we have to brave through the bad weather by taking all precautionary measures that we can imagine to make this endemic phase a success.
This is for survival, not merely a debate of should or should not.
Once SG takes on the endemic path and starts opening up, we will start to discover gaps and have to take steps to tighten them as we go along.
Vaccination mandates can come in the form of segmentizing our population whose work require them to face members of public and subjecting them to regular tests. This is to arrest any possible large transmission outbreaks. Also consider mandating them to wear their TT token to facilitate contact tracing quickly as they are likely to be super spreaders.
SG also needs to sharpen our strategy in micro lockdowns for the infected and their close contacts. In an endemic phase, we are maximising the freedom of our people to live , work and play. So the infected, and those possibly infected persons should be "lockdown" and release if their viral load is reduced and no longer threaten wide ranging transmission. So, the part of pilot home isolation runs a contrary to my imagination. I would think that to keep the infected at home risks transmission and even harder to administer their well being and whereabout. This home isolation can perhaps come later when the world or region cases starts to show great improvement.
[4:34 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: Whether wfh or wio should take into consideration whether that household has children under age of 12 until vaccinations are opened up.
[4:35 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: For e.g. a family has 1 child of 10 yo. Both parents are allowed to wfh fully until end of 2021 when the vaccine for 6yo to 12yo is available. And employers cannot penalise the parents for wfh.
[4:36 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: Because we do not know if variants can mutate and end up severely affect the young children or not.
[4:37 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: Right now seems no severe effects, but we won't know.
[4:37 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: And in cases of families with children younger than 6 yo, then their parents should be allowed to wfh fully until vaccination is available for the less than 6yo children.
[4:39 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: +1
Actually those who can let them WFH till 100% population vaccination done
[4:43 pm, 20/08/2021] +Thomas: See a problem here. The vaccine has to be officially approved by WHO , CDC and MOH before it can be mandated for the population. Current status the vaccine is considered as experimental and no Government mandate to population a experimental drugs or vaccine. But it will take time
[4:43 pm, 20/08/2021] +Thomas: * for approval
[4:44 pm, 20/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: unfortunately that's not the case right now
[4:55 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ben: Good point - WFH should be an option for all parents with under 12s
[4:58 pm, 20/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: How do you feel about Singapore’s approach to reopening of our borders to vaccinated individuals through the differentiated measures for countries? As we progress towards an endemic COVID-19, what do you think of the new community measures such as, the pilot home isolation scheme, and vaccination of children below 12 years old next year?
1) For incoming arrivals with different categories for high, medium and low risks countries I applaud the policy. However, there are loopholes about waiting to be exploited. As long as the authorities are fast to detect cases and plug the loopholes I’ve no qualms about it.
2) Here, there are two parts. Community measures like home isolation scheme is very hard to monitor and control. And the last thing we want is to have c…
[5:11 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: When i read this kind of news ...againa and again i am scared ...not only about my child... But all other children..
Only FOCUSING ON ELDERLY ..and Forgetting about children...?!
What's the Use?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/health/children-covid-19-protection/index.html
[5:15 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: The other day i read some comment here that Children Won't have long covid!!
But The Article wrote otherwise.
So As we don't have FULL DATA
Please don't conclude that CHILDREN Won't Get any Long covid.
[5:18 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: who say child do not have long covid
[5:19 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: think it was already stated anyone who got covid will have issue
[5:19 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: what make children so special once they have covid and recover will not have symptoms
[5:20 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: is just like how majority swear by their lives vaccine of aa bb is good but look at the daily reports and u know vaccine are like fighting among themselves to prove which is better and need extra boosting
[5:21 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: end of the day no one have the sligtest clue what is happen each is just making the best of the situation only
[5:22 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: important is as a society we should not divide ourselves up on the pretext we are protecting others because is proven vaccine ppl too can spread regardless of whatever level
[5:23 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: society must do what we do best be as a cohesive , those can vaccine yes please go vacc, those with legit reason try to understand with them there will be a way for them one day, and also everyone in the society must be responsible once u are out of your lovely home mask on properly please ..
[5:25 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: Not sure.. i Think i read here in this group (may be i am mistaken from other group)
[5:26 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: :) no issue but i did read from US / UK site kid too will be expose to the after effects
[5:26 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: we might not be sure what effects is that but from those who recover can hear from their testimony
[5:27 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes :(
[5:27 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: i not going to say much in case speculating or wrong info , baseline is still please do our part when in the open
[5:30 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: Here ..
Just found it .
[5:34 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: aiyo this one i think is saying current situation
[5:34 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: post covid hard to say if it is immediate or after a while den surface
[5:34 pm, 20/08/2021] +Ah Heng: but go oversea news site sure can read
[5:35 pm, 20/08/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[5:49 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes agree... seems like govt ignore the pleas to protect the next gen and continue to move to endemic. Like that one more factor for couples hesitating to give birth.
[5:50 pm, 20/08/2021] +Elena Woo: And variants can mutate
[6:10 pm, 20/08/2021] +REACH: 36 new locally transmitted Covid-19 cases in Singapore, 14 unlinked
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/36-new-locally-transmitted-covid-19-cases-in-singapore-14-unlinked
[6:11 pm, 20/08/2021] +REACH: S'pore's reopening focused on retaining business hub status, valuing public health stability: Lawrence Wong
Singapore's reopening is aimed at maintaining its status as a business hub and staying connected to the world, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong on Friday (Aug 20).
More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spores-reopening-focused-on-retaining-business-hub-status-valuing-public-health
[6:46 pm, 20/08/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:50 pm, 20/08/2021] +Kevin: Good night Megan
[7:00 pm, 20/08/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
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