REACH 268 - View on calibrated easing of border and community measures, as Singapore prepares for  transition towards COVID resilience? (SK)

23 Aug 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:53 am, 23/08/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

[9:59 am, 23/08/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Singapore's reopening is aimed at maintaining its status as a business hub and staying connected to the world, said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong on Friday (Aug 20). 

And with an underlying philosophy that values stability and security, the Republic has taken a more cautious approach towards reopening social and economic activities thus far, he added in an interview with BBC. 

💬 What are your views on the calibrated easing of border and community measures, as Singapore prepares for the transition towards COVID resilience?

On Thursday (Aug 19), Singapore announced quarantine-free entry from next month for vaccinated travellers from Germany and Brunei, provided they test negative for Covid-19. Border restrictions have also been relaxed for travellers from Hong Kong and Macau from Saturday. These measures are part of a plan to gradually reopen borders, and a wider road map to becoming a Covid-19-resilient nation. 

"As much as we want to resume normal life and we are trying as much as we can to do so, we also want to ensure that we keep hospitalisation and ICU cases low, that we continue to ensure that our hospital system is intact, and we get to the end of the pandemic with minimum death and damage to our society," he said. 

Hence, a risk-based approach that calibrates measures according to data, evidence and rigorous assessments of the global situation, he added. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/spores-reopening-focused-on-retaining-business-hub-status-valuing-public-health 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-will-stay-open-to-the-world-continue-to-welcome-foreign-contributions-ong-ye-kung

-----

[10:03 am, 23/08/2021] +Kevin: Good morning Megan

[10:07 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: How dynamic are these borders control given the stats of each countries are changing every week? Is our control as dynamic as to the respective countries infection rate regardless of vaccinated / infection control (note regardless vaccinated or not Covid still gets to that person difference is level of seriousness) aka do we want to see a imported cases again

[10:09 am, 23/08/2021] +Peter T Ng: Think there's merit in trying this out. Personally, think Germany is more 'porous' as part of EU with differing Covid situations, and hence risks are perhaps higher than Brunei's.

Also perhaps for travelling Singaporeans, there need to have clearer information on what to expect should they get infected in eg Germany or Brunei. Are there hospitals? Where will they be required to go? What are insurance terms, and limits of coverage? Don't think they can fly home, or can they?

[10:10 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: FYI germany just show their number over the weekend 9k infection in a day

[10:10 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: what about taiwan? new zealand ?

[10:12 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: not to say closing of borders is the way to go but how fluid the process for us to react to ring fence and reduce and internal growth of numbers again?

[10:33 am, 23/08/2021] +An fan: We open border to Taiwan and New Zealand. But they don’t open to us yet. Just like China.

[10:56 am, 23/08/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, the easing is a necessary. What are the safeguards in place to minimise/mitigate the risks of re-imported infections, including dependents who are coming in, so that SG has not locked-down/restricted ourselves and the price we paid for "nothing". Who's paying for these safeguards?

[11:08 am, 23/08/2021] +An fan: As I know Incoming travellers have  to buy minimum 30k COVID-19 insurance before they get air pass to come to Singapore.

[11:20 am, 23/08/2021] +Joseph Ong: Process/procedures are useless if they are only pretty on paper. Hope the G can put more focus on implementation and enforcement. And I am not referring to CV19 issues only, but ALL G initiatives/regulations/etc.

[11:27 am, 23/08/2021] +Elena Woo: We don't know if there could be another variant like delta that can cause another wave of community cases. Just the delta alone caused chaos from Apr till now and yet to subside.

[11:30 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: till covid and cousin subside or till the brains at science world knwo how covid behaves and grow

[11:31 am, 23/08/2021] +Ah Heng: do expect more of its cousin to be out and about

[11:32 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

2 more elderly succumb to covid. 1 unvaccinated. 1 partially vaccinated.

49 death. Include 1 fully vaccinated and 1 partially vaccinated.

All elderly.

[11:32 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine will get full and final approval on 23 Aug 2012 by US FDA.

MOH should seriously consider making Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines a mandate for compulsory vaccination for the remainder of unvaccinated Singapore population (except age 12 years and below which is still under trial) - in preparation for endemic.

This will push the remaining unvaccinated people over the finishing line and achieve 100% vaccination rate fulfilling the objective of:-

"No one is safe, unless everyone is safe"!

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/consumer/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-poised-to-get-full-fda-approval-next-week

[11:32 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

MOH speech on Mandatory Vaccination.

Currently, not possible to make vaccination compulsory because the vaccines are still under emergency approval.

Upon granted full and final approval, Countries around the world will consider making vaccination mandatory as countries are moving towards endemic.

https://youtu.be/I_6K59FaOZE

[11:34 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our local medical experts come out strongly to recommend the vaccination of the remaining unvaccinated people - because Delta variants is highly contagious and threaten the unvaccinated.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/why-the-surge-in-covid-19-deaths-and-what-it-means-for-the-future

[11:37 am, 23/08/2021] +Timothy Low: I recall not all are elderly. There is one Ukrainian seamen who is 36 years old also died of COVID in Singapore

[11:37 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/stocks-radar-fda-expected-grant-082744310.html

Stocks on the Radar: FDA Expected to Grant Full Approval of Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine on Monday.

[11:38 am, 23/08/2021] +Timothy Low: 34, not 36 years old. Source: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/34-year-old-seaman-from-ukraine-dies-of-covid-19-10-new-clusters-emerge

[11:39 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh I remember incorrectly.

Then should be all elderly except one 36 years old.

[11:44 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/australia-covid-19-lockdown-morrison-record-cases-2128581

Australian PM Morrison defends COVID-19 lockdown strategy as daily cases hit record

[11:44 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/new-zealand-queries-virus-approach-delta-outbreak-grows-2128766

New Zealand queries virus approach as Delta outbreak grows

[11:45 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Under strain to defend a zero covid strategy.

My comments:-

Yes.

Zero covid strategy can no longer be applicable as Delta variants strike.

China also undergo the same situation.

That's why I wrote a long argument yesterday about uncontrolled endemic and zero covid strategy both doesn't work.

I introduce a middle path approach call the vaccinated controlled endemic approach.

New Zealand and Australia need to ramp up their vaccination to achieve it.

China need to add mRNA booster to achieve it.

My middle path approach is taking the cue from what our government are doing.

[11:45 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEMecARygGbA-g9wbSUd2uCEqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMOySxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

HK discover that zero covid strategy is increasingly not beneficial as a business hub - and need to move towards endemic.

[11:46 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

University to review plagiarism claims against ‘China’s Dr Fauci’ Zhang Wenhong

Critics say a review section in Zhang’s doctoral thesis is very similar to that in another paper

Supporter says the accusers are deliberately confusing the issue

Guo Rui  in Guangzhou

Published: 9:00pm, 15 Aug, 2021

SCMP

-----

User since Mar 2021

Babe B.

1. Covid will not be totally eradicated. 

2. It will become endemic globally. 

3. Zero covid strategy can only be used temporarily - unless a Country want to cut itself out from the rest of the World by permanently shutting its border and become a hermit country. 

4. Else at some point in time, every Country must learn how to live with covid - with high vaccination rate to protect its population.

Just now

-----

1. Full uncontrolled endemic - to allow full Economy and travel to function like in pre-pandemic is undesirable will result in high infection, high hospitalisation and even death. This uncontrolled endemic model is not desirable.

2. Zero covid strategy - by closing its border to prevent imported infection cases - is also unsustainable - unless a Country want to shut its international flights permanently, ban overseas travelling, ban all oveseas visitors and curb trade, business and investment - to prevent infection from coming from abroad.

The zero covid strategy is only implemented when there are no alternative to prevent covid from infecting the population and lead to high hospitalisation and death.

Now with vaccination, monoclonal anti-body treatment - to transform covid into mild illness - rather than serious illness -- zero covid strategy is no longer the desirable model.

3. Adopting a Middle Path approach to live with the covid as endemic - while reopening the domestic Economy and international Economy will be a longer term sustainable model.

4. Hence I will like to coin the concept of "Vaccinated Controlled Endemic" with high vaccination (100% vaccination if possible) as a baseline to live with the covid as endemic while reopening the domestic and international Economy.

That's step by step reopening with safeguard and not uncontrolled endemic.

The middle path between zero covid and full endemic.

"Feeling the stones mindfully, as you cross the river".

======

[11:55 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/fda-warns-against-using-livestock-201936759.html                            FDA Warns Against Using Livestock Drug To Treat COVID-19.                 Paige Lavender

Sun, August 22, 2021, 4:19 AM

The Food and Drug Administration warned against using ivermectin — a drug often used in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals — to treat or prevent COVID-19 in humans.

“You are not a horse. You are not a cow. Seriously, y’all. Stop it,” the FDA tweeted Saturday morning, linking to a piece explaining the dangers of self-medicating with ivermectin doses intended for horses.

[11:55 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/mississippi-poison-calls-soar-vaccine-035845930.html      

Mississippi Poison Calls Soar As Vaccine Skeptics Turn To Livestock Drug swallowing ivermectin For COVID-19.

Medical experts call this people crazy ignoring medical guidelines while believing in anti-vaxx messages.

[11:58 am, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Somehow the MOH chart not in synch with what is announced.

Ong Ye Kung say 1st jab 82%.

2nd jab 77%.

Quite different from the MOH chart.

[0:00 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Wonder why MOH chart not updated to be in synch with the MTF announcement?

It has caused some confusion what is the vaccination rate is when tracking the Vaccination number.

[0:27 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: this is 5 days ago

[0:27 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: when did OYK say?

[0:33 pm, 23/08/2021] +Peter T Ng: What's your denominator

[0:52 pm, 23/08/2021] +Timothy Low: Actually the total doses administered also doesn’t tally

[0:53 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: OYK said include SINOVAC I think

[0:53 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: and those come back from overseas citizens who had jab in overseas

[0:55 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I work backwards.

It is 5.7 million.

The person who track it has not seen the message to respond.

[0:56 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: this numbers is no. of doses in the national vaccination prog?

[0:59 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

MOH number.

I don't know.

[1:02 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Ok.

Then you are right.

[1:04 pm, 23/08/2021] +Peter T Ng: Ok, so you are saying having used one of the day's pax vaccinated and reported percentage to arrive at total population, and using the total population for other days, it no longer tallies? What's the difference in no like

[1:05 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I guess is what you say

[1:12 pm, 23/08/2021] +Peter T Ng: Am sure there is a logical explanation on any discrepancy. @+REACH Perhaps the methodology of calculation or at least FAQ on why the % may not tally exactly can be provided

[1:13 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why we want to clarify in REACH to clear the confusion.

Before Sinovac is announced, the number is clear and consistent.

Now there are discrepancy.

[1:27 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/israeli-doctors-find-severe-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-mostly-in-older-sicker-patients                                                                                                         Israeli doctors find severe Covid-19 breakthrough cases mostly in older, sicker patients.

[1:29 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Now only 2 groups of people are unvaccinated:-

1. Adults - mainly some elderly and anti-vaxx or vaccines-hesitant people. (10% of the population) 

2. Infant age below 12 years old - still cannot be vaccinated. (10% of the population)

[1:33 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No breakdown of below 12 years old.

But 0 - 14 years old about 12.3%.

So rough estimate 12 years and below about 10%.

Hence remaining adult population not vaccinated is another 10%.

[1:35 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence with US FDA granting full and final approval for Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine today - I will like to urge MOH to seriously consider mandatory vaccination for the last 10% adults.

As for 12 years and below, got to wait for the trial to complete.

To enter into endemic, we need to protect everyone.

[1:40 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Recently there are so many unvaccinated elderly death that maybe avoidable if they are vaccinated.

As these elderly cannot be persuaded due to their fear of vaccines, or ignorance - then as supported by our medical experts - we may want to urge the government to mandate compulsory vaccination to protect these last group of people.

These people don't have to succumb needlessly - just by getting the jabs - by mandatory vaccination if all else persuasion fail.

[1:43 pm, 23/08/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes esp the younger ones. They are the future pillars

[2:57 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. For that matter, 10% unvaccinated adults is about 570,000 people.

2. 10% unvaccinated children is another 570,000 children.

So by persuasion, not sure how fast to get 570,009 unwilling adults to vaccinate while we move to endemic.

Time is the essence.

By a stroke of the law, as US FDA has approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine - we can mop up the unvaccinated adults quickly - and reduce the strain on our hospital resources and medical staff - who have come under alot of strain and mental stress.

They deserve to be relieved of the unnecessary pressure.

Also less people hospitalised, less budget we need to subsidize the medical costs.

We can wait, but virus won't wait.

It is time to take a decisive step - Mandatory Vaccination!

[2:59 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: Maybe next step first is pay or vaccinated

[2:59 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: Pay for own medical bill if covid positive

[2:59 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

More death at home.

[3:00 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This infringe the Hippocratic oath.

[3:08 pm, 23/08/2021] +Alvin Lim: What are your views on the calibrated easing of border and community measures, as Singapore prepares for the transition towards COVID resilience?

My views are as follows:

1) Overseas traveller should be profiled from their passport of origin instead of just point of entry (eg all travellers from High Risk countries should be processed as that tier regardless of where their embarkation point is into SG).

2) Even for low risk countries, they should not be allowed to Quarantine at their own place of residence. I strongly urge the policy to be changed as this might be a silent covid infection vector. 

3) Even for locals returning home, we should not be quarantine at home but a few selected premises where it’s wel managed and kept clean. All these could be a nightmare once they spread locally and you can’t contain the spread. Don’t forget that our young (below 12) are still unvaccinated! You will have blood on your hands once this group gets infected if we reopen rashly.

4) I still maintain my stance that WFH should be the default mode until the young can be fully vaccinated or majority of them are vaccinated. This virus is a long con and those who are foolish to think they have it under control and reopen quickly will soon be dealt with another wave.

My 2.14 cents

[4:17 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/israel-finds-covid-19-vaccine-booster-significantly-lowers-infection-risk                                                                                                       A third dose of Pfizer‘s Covid-19 vaccine has significantly improved protection from infection and serious illness among people aged 60 and older in Israel compared with those who received two shots, findings published by the Health Ministry.

[5:00 pm, 23/08/2021] +Caleb: All employers in Singapore have been urged to consider implementing a regime for existing employees and new hires to get vaccinated or undergo regular tests.

Employers may also ask staff who are eligible but choose not to be vaccinated to pay for regular testing, and exclude them from medical benefits linked to Covid-19, according to guidelines from Singapore’s tripartite partners. https://bit.ly/2Wi33uv

[5:15 pm, 23/08/2021] +REACH: S’pore employers may ask staff who choose not to be vaccinated to pay for regular Covid-19 testing

All employers have been urged to consider implementing a regime for existing employees and new hires to get vaccinated or undergo regular tests. 

As part of efforts to boost vaccination rates, employers may also ask staff who are eligible but choose not to be vaccinated to pay for regular testing, and exclude them from medical benefits linked to Covid-19. 

More: https://str.sg/3igj

[5:54 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Hippocratic oath apply to fair treatment to all people when people get ill. Medical professionals worldwide make such declaration before conferring the certification to become doctors.

2. If a person is not ill, testing I believe don't fall under such oath.

A point of contention and debate - that fall into the grey area.

However, I feel asking people to pay for their own test if they refused to vaccinate does not infringe the oath.

3. Differentiated treatment will cause people to be unhappy - and one of the main purpose is to cajole people to vaccinate. A hard persuasion approach.

4. And if mandatory vaccination with health authority granting approval - will also make people unhappy - but a short and sharp one - jab and done deal - without prolonging people's unhappiness. 

So why not mandate compulsory jabs?

[5:59 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's long pain or short pain.

Differentiated treatment is a prolonged pain. And more people will die along the way as people procastinate.

Mandatory vaccination is a short but sharp pain. But less people die as they are protected by the vaccines.

Which one you want?

Long or short?

[6:09 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Politically, long pain (without relieve) will be worst than short pain (when after jabs discover they are protected).

People have short memory on short pain and enduring memories of long pain.

[6:21 pm, 23/08/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some People I come across vehemently distrust vaccines.

But being a frontline staff, they either jab or post elsewhere.

So being force to jabs 

Now when ask them how you think vaccination will solve the problem - they say better jab to protect themselves.

So short and sharp pain better than prolonged pain.

Those who refuse to jabs everyday complaining double treatment, sign petition, talk bad.

Politically, mandatory vaccination will have better outcomes.

[6:46 pm, 23/08/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:47 pm, 23/08/2021] +REACH: PM Lee to deliver National Day Rally speech on Aug 29

Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong will deliver his National Day Rally speech on Sunday evening (Aug 29) at Mediacorp.

He will speak in Malay and Mandarin from 6.45pm to 7.15pm, and in English from 8pm to 9.15pm, the Prime Minister’s Office said in a statement on Monday.

More: https://str.sg/3iMi

[6:49 pm, 23/08/2021] +REACH: Mass flu vaccination drive for Govt workers to reduce toll on Covid-19 testing resources

A flu vaccination drive is being planned for 44 public agencies to ensure that as many employees as possible are protected ahead of the end-of-year flu season.

More: https://str.sg/3iMT

[6:54 pm, 23/08/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/DUXtT9C93VY

[6:59 pm, 23/08/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[7:00 pm, 23/08/2021] +Fathul - Ipin: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-cases-north-coast-lodge-dormitory-aug-23-2130031

[7:00 pm, 23/08/2021] +Smiley face: 23 August 2021 

To: Distinguished MTF, DMS and All Honorable Members 

"TRAVEL SAFETY"

Prior to departure, for Singaporeans travelling out of the country, firstly, please take note of the respective Singapore embassy and its REACHABLE (24/7) contact numbers, duty embassy staffs to be trained and briefed on a set of covid medical SOP issued by MFA.

Secondly, travellers must buy adequate travel insurance for emergency air ambulance, fully understand what the exception clauses that varies country to region, each premium and coverage, it is so important! 

Inbound Travel Insurance:

Should any tourist who is infected with covid and needs hospitalisation, is there provision for sickbeds and critically ICU beds? The cost of hospitalisation is non-subsidise and fully borne by tourist and / or their valid and chargeable travel insurance coverages inclusive of covid and covid related claims of S$50,000 up to $1,000,000 for a spectrum of medical services from ambulance, A&E, testings and private hospital stay. These unforeseeable risks must be clearly spelled and in simple explanation prior to arriving into Singapore, all inbound tourists and visitors.

STAY SAFE and TRAVEL SAFE for all travellers! 

Afterwords:

My friend shared this with me... "If you are afraid of covid infections and opening the economy, don't open !" Can we do that? 

我的朋友与我分享了这一点...“如果你害怕冠状病毒感染和开放经济，请不要开放! "  我们能做到吗？

"the 50% of things is a tipping point, thereafter towards glory or gloomy and importantly a point of NO TURNING BACK...!" 

-- Ian T

========