REACH 126 - Opening Parliament 2020 - Boost our Economy amid covid (SK)

24 Aug 2020 (12pm - 10pm)

REACH

[12:20 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Dear contributors

Welcome back!  😃

 ⏰ Chats will be opened until 10pm today. ⏰

Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group.  🙏

REACH

[12:21 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Singapore’s 14th Parliament will hold its very first sitting this evening. President Halimah Yacob will deliver the President’s Address to the new term of Parliament and set out the Government’s priorities and long term plans, with a focus on how we will tackle the healthcare and economic impact of COVID-19. The proceedings will be telecast live at 8pm tonight. 

In the following days, each Ministry will explain its policies and programmes to support the proposed directions, after which Members of Parliament have five days to debate on the directions and policies and the Government will respond.

👉https://go.gov.sg/24augpresaddress

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/younger-more-diverse-parliament-faces-jobs-challenge-covid-19-13045600

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

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CQ

[12:37 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/08/scoot-passengers-tianjin-covid-19/

We're now "exporting" cases.....

CQ

[12:40 pm, 24/08/2020] +: 🤷🏻‍♀️ Not like it matters to China... We frigging just exported 13 positive cases to them!

[12:41 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Any country would be miffed lah...

[1:09 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This group of people could be Chinese national workers staying in dorms, got infected but recover and still have anti-bodies.

Thus tests will reveal positive.

CQ

[1:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Yes, likely dorm residents. But just saying that it doesn't look good from an optics perspective especially internationally.

Ken

[1:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Need to know what their relationship, if from same dormitory or worksite

[1:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Don’t look good for us 😅

Alvin

[1:14 pm, 24/08/2020] +: I doubt the PRC medical team that dumb to test for antigens only. I’m sure they are tested for existing virus as well and hence got flagged out by their authorities.

Rama

[1:17 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Possibly

SL

[1:20 pm, 24/08/2020] +: 😱

Rama

[1:23 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Remember,  no country is out of the woods yet, even more so with no vaccine!

[1:27 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore adopt time based discharged after 28 days of infection if my memory serves me correctly.

So even though a test may reveal the virus, they are no longer infectious.

This is in line with WHO endorsement.

I think we need to get more information from China authority and synch with our tests on these few infected people - before we jump into conclusion.

[1:30 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If I am not wrong, China did not adopt the time based discharged WHO recommendations.

Singapore, Germany and some other countries adopted it.

[1:32 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Time based discharged is discovered by Singapore and seconded by Germany and subsequently confirmed and endorsed by WHO.

[2:06 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore economy is not possible to move into positive territory if we depend on our domestic economy alone.

Because our domestic market of 5.6 million is too small.

And we don't have domestic air travel because our land space is too small.

We need external market, trade, international travel, foreign investment etc - before our economy can move back into positive territory.

I will not be surprised that the parliament will put forward policies on surgical, systematic, safe opening up of our air hub, air travel, access to external market etc - to boost our business and create jobs.

Rama

[2:07 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Agree

Valli

[2:16 pm, 24/08/2020] +: What is there to be shocked about?

We are seeing increasing imported cases, likewise can expect more ‘exported’ cases also. 

My concern why allow this to happen? Why are there no testing done? If we see imported cases , the people on the flight are all at risk.

CQ

[2:29 pm, 24/08/2020] +: It's not a shock. Just a "how can dis be allow" react. I'm sure that SG authorities would've explained our methodology to the chinese authorities, but it doesn't look good optically because internationally, they wouldn't care about our segregation of dorm vs community numbers, all they're seeing is that SG has 50k+ cases in total and everyday adding like 100 or so. They don't care about our testing strategies and how we've kept our community numbers low. All they'll see is "wah so many... And eh, they're exporting their cases to us!!"

So not saying that there cannot be air commute. Just that I think our SG authorities probably have a lot more work on their plates trying to explain if these are recovered cases or if they're part of the time-based discharge cases. Destination countries can then determine what to do with this information, probably quarantine or choose to trust our SG methodology that these people have been cleared.

[2:34 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

In other words, I propose the "ring-fence" approach to air travel, tours, green lanes, MICE etc - that includes testing, safe distancing, segregation of overseas travellers from local community, isolation, quarantine - from airport, transit areas, hotels, tourists spots, f&b, retail, tour bus, convention areas, meeting place, event halls etc - to reboot our economy.

MOT Ong YK call it the "air bubbles" or "air corridors".

I hope parliament can provide more details on this aspect - and how it will help to reboot our external economy and travel - albeit doing it safely and no cross infection into our local community.

Caleb

[2:38 pm, 24/08/2020] +: 👍

[2:44 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Think of another term - "safe tunneling" or  "ring-fence" Vs "air bubbles" or "air corridors".

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:45 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Not gonna agree with safe tunneling, what are you, boring tunnels?

Alvin

[2:48 pm, 24/08/2020] +: There’s this movie called Bubble Boy. Basically a boy without any immune system whatsoever and lives his life inside the bubble. Until he starts to have an immunity, then he manages to come out from it. 

That’s what we are trying to do here with “air bubbles”. Basically all countries should have their own air bubbles and only those inside these bubbles can travel and mingle around with others from their own bubbles as well.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:49 pm, 24/08/2020] +: I know that reference from Seinfeld lol

en

[2:50 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/manpower/bilateral-agreements-have-not-jeopardised-employment-opportunities-for

Rama

[2:52 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Not totally convinced.

Alvin

[2:54 pm, 24/08/2020] +: The key problem is the “bubble” is only as strong as the people who are let inside.

[2:55 pm, 24/08/2020] +: If it’s compromised, the entire system will fail.

Rama

[2:56 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Agree

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:56 pm, 24/08/2020] +: We should be on our safe side, let's not forget that the virus is still invisible

Rama

[2:57 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Yes

CQ

[2:58 pm, 24/08/2020] +: If only it's visible, like if it glows radioactive green or something! 🤣

Blue and White Flag Guy

[2:59 pm, 24/08/2020] +: You get my point, as compared to SARS.

Alvin

[3:00 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Hence why I disagree to the 28 days discharge even if still have the virus.

[3:01 pm, 24/08/2020] +: We might be honorable but can we trust others to uphold the same standards

[3:02 pm, 24/08/2020] +: I’m sure why China doesn’t allow this is that their local provincial officers might chop stamp for those infected that they have been quarantined for 28 days

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:02 pm, 24/08/2020] +: This programme has the potential to uproot relations if care isn't taken

CQ

[3:02 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Yah... It's the asymptomatic ones that pose the risk to vulnerable people in our midst. Even if death rate is 0.001, it still means that 1 person may die out if every 1000 kena. And at risk of sounding like a prick, the question is always "are you prepared for that 1 person to be your loved one?"

Avin

[3:02 pm, 24/08/2020] +: But in actual fact they haven’t

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:03 pm, 24/08/2020] +: We're all too awfully familiar with the blame game, let's never stoop to that level again

Alvin

[3:03 pm, 24/08/2020] +: So their policy comes from national level and all have to follow

SL

[3:11 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Let say everyone (included visitor) in Singapore wearing a tracker (tamper-proof), any cases can be pickup and isolated timely, will it be useful? Then we can open up our border

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: It'd be nice but it's kinda equivalent to what people say as dehumanising?

[3:16 pm, 24/08/2020] +: This sort of tracker would be expensive to manufacture so again with my previous opinion of the pocket-sized tracker for those without smartphones, let's only produce this tamper-proof tracker for those who do not have TraceTogether-enabled smartphones 

This would curb the expense of the manufacture and not result in an overly expensive plan. Then, we can begin with a small group of foreign visitors and increase this group size per intake slowly but not too quickly - careful to monitor the situation and results before moving on to the next marker 

Always start small, lesser chances of actually screwing up

[3:19 pm, 24/08/2020] +65 9689 8146: Many people warn against moving back to lockdowns but for this plan, we must not be afraid of going back. 

I cite an example from Shanghai Metro where they had a capacity cap of 50% then this rose to 100% eventually, but dropped back down to 80% when a case was discovered 

I am not encouraging a Melbourne or Auckland-style lockdown where we have to go back to CB but I'm encouraging the thought to backtrack when necessary, especially since this is part of a plan that is outside of our bubble.

Avin

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: I agree with this

SL

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Without gadget, very hard to track movement, phone can be turn off or run out of battery.

Alvin

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: We can have mini Circuitbreaker if infection rises

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Red zone orange zone etc

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Would you rather we spend another sum of money excessively?

Alvin

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Like dengue

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Like Dengue

[3:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Hell yes

[3:23 pm, 24/08/2020] +: That would be like Melbourne I think, where the apartments were locked down

SL

[3:26 pm, 24/08/2020] +: i thought it is $10 per piece, if it work, it would be great.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:27 pm, 24/08/2020] +: $10 as in cost of manufacture or stipulated retail price?

CQ

[3:28 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Thing is that for dengue, mozzies are the vectors and they have a certain distance of travel. You can't stop humans from moving around, even during CB there were people who couldn't be trusted not to go out unnecessarily. For AU and NZ, they're big enough that they can lockdown by zone. In SG, you can't lock down by zone because we don't have borders per se, it'll be damn hard to control.

SL

[3:28 pm, 24/08/2020] +: No idea, it was reported in newspaper that the price per piece may dropped from $20 to $10 with volumnous order

Alvin

[3:28 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Ppl see colours will be more inclined to follow instructions

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:28 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Not too difficult if we choose to go with one standard and one only

Alvin

[3:29 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Red zone you see liao uturn go home

[3:29 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Update the zones regularly and it’s likely internal “air bubble”

[3:29 pm, 24/08/2020] +: *like

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:30 pm, 24/08/2020] +: If this zoning system is to be established, information should be first made available through a wheregotbubble website or something (you get the idea) so people don't have to go the area, see red then kebelakang pusing

CQ

[3:30 pm, 24/08/2020] +: eh hard to say wor..... many people hold the the "aiyah, won't so suay one lah" mentality

[3:31 pm, 24/08/2020] +: actually we can make reference to the crowd indicator which was done up for the parks and malls. even when it shows crowded, people still go what

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:32 pm, 24/08/2020] +: That's because you're still part of the "Singaporeans are disobedient" mentality

[3:33 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Even I have abandoned that thought, we should all do our research to understand how we can interpret human behaviour and what we can do to manipulate that for the greater good

[3:33 pm, 24/08/2020] +: How can we be sure that everyone uses that website all the time? I don't.

CQ

[3:34 pm, 24/08/2020] +: yah. i do agree that majority would be law abiding and behave for the greater good. but not every one would be, and we have to factor that part of human behaviour into the policy decisions lor.

SL

[3:34 pm, 24/08/2020] +: asyptomatic patient do not have obvious clinical signs, are is refering to the red zone locked down? Are those in red zone allow to come out?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:35 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Everyone was utter 💩 at first but eventually many understood the reason for wearing masks and keeping clean 

This took a few weeks or for some up to a month to adapt - it's really about adapting

CQ

[3:37 pm, 24/08/2020] +: and there was a lot of effort put into enforcement! but is that level of enforcement sustainable? i dunno. maybe that goes towards part of "job creation".

Valli

[3:37 pm, 24/08/2020] +: With the slowdown in jobs, MOM should look into the excess in permit holders by Subcons. 

Employers may push out their workers to job sites causing an overflow of manpower at sites indirectly affecting the SMM measures. 

Tendency for employers in order to complete their delayed jobs, to rush more dorm guys to a site than actually required.

Rama

[3:37 pm, 24/08/2020] +: New Covid-19 cluster in Kaki Bukit dormitory https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/new-covid-19-cluster-in-kaki-bukit-dormitory?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:37 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Definitely created some jobs for people

Valli

[3:38 pm, 24/08/2020] +: And most of these guys have already gone out to work.

SL

[3:38 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Can the safe entry apps upgraded with geo fencing feature first before new website? when a person left a safe entry premises, the app will auto lockout so that the data will be much more clearner and assist the authority in tracking

CQ

[3:39 pm, 24/08/2020] +: definitely! but can it be a career? well........ the existing SDA/enforcement officers' job scope is mindnumbing to say the least. so probably with a better job description, it can be a new class of officers under NEA!

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:39 pm, 24/08/2020] +: I like this idea, everyone keeps forgetting to check out but it's not really a habit yet

SL

[3:40 pm, 24/08/2020] +: it will be great if it is an effective enforcement. Job creation for enforcement work will it effective?

[3:41 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Couples of time logout next days, the data set for sure is contaminated and no longer useful, it created too much noice in the analysis

CQ

[3:41 pm, 24/08/2020] +: there are different classes of enforcement officers utilised by the various govt agencies, so this might be another category?

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:41 pm, 24/08/2020] +: We can't blame ourselves, everyone forgets about checking out from time to time but yes, having that geofenced thing would be nice though difficult to implement

SL

[3:45 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Yes, can start with those group going thru basic traning then roll out to other group

Rama

[3:45 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyle/getting-vaccinated-against-diseases-such-as-influenza-especially-important-amid-covid-19?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg

[3:46 pm, 24/08/2020] +: 😟😞

REACH

[3:47 pm, 24/08/2020] +: 51 new Covid-19 cases in Singapore, including 1 in the community and 7 imported

There were 51 new coronavirus cases confirmed as of Monday noon (Aug 24), taking Singapore's total to 56,404.

They included one community case, a Singaporean, said the Ministry of Health.

There were also seven imported cases who had been placed on stay-home notices upon arrival in Singapore.

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/51-new-covid-19-cases-in-singapore-including-1-in-the-community-and-7-imported

REACH

[3:48 pm, 24/08/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg –  24 Aug]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed an additional 51 cases of COVID-19 infection in Singapore.

Based on investigations so far, there is 1 case in the community (1 Singaporean).

In addition, there are 7 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore.

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh24augupdate

Alvin

[3:51 pm, 24/08/2020] +: It’s up to authorities to decide

[3:52 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Probably visits to those red zones are highly discouraged

[3:52 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Pax in red zone can swab test and travel our if not infected

[3:52 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Just an idea

SL

[3:54 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Just a thought, If asyptomatic carrier running around the island, it will led to red zone in the whole Singapore

[3:55 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-08-21/hong-kong-to-start-virus-testing-blitz-of-whole-city-on-sept-1 😅

Alvin

[4:06 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Nope zone colours shouldn’t turn just cos there’s one case

[4:06 pm, 24/08/2020] +: It must be a cluster

[4:07 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Like those dormitory cases

[4:10 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Colours also help ppl to know if their zone is escalated

[4:10 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Eg green to yellow to orange to red

[4:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Can also have restrictions like if green can have 50pax inside restaurant but orange can only have XX amount

[4:12 pm, 24/08/2020] +: People will want their zones to be covid free and will work together

Caleb

[4:14 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://infographics.channelnewsasia.com/covid-19/singapore-map-places-visited-by-community-cases.html

Here got the map, pin in red color

[5:01 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our tourism and air hub use to generate $25 billion to our economy every year.

Can we target a step up approach to hit $10 billion first.

Then 3 months later to $15 billion.

Another 3 months to $20 billion.

And then finally to $25 billion by using:-

1. "Ring-fence" air bubbles - from each events at each place of activities.

2. "Safe tunneling" air corridors - end to end tunneling approach from airport, to various places like hotels, food, tourists spots and back home.

[5:05 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

A variety of technologies ( eg. SafeEntry for overseas travellers, contact tracing, movement tracking etc), physical cordoning, organised tours via "virtual safe tunneling approach" - segregated from local community - so that there are no cross infection.

But yet can boost our external economy and travel and air hub.

[5:18 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Eg. We can start with China first - our huge tourists market.

China top foreign diplomat is visiting us soon, we can sell our above concept to China from their various provinces to us and vice versa.

By doing so, I think we can hit the first $10 billion.

[5:19 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

China is also the only country in the world with positive GDP.

Imagine the strength of their huge domestic market.

CQ

[5:19 pm, 24/08/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/chinas-top-diplomat-calls-on-pm-lee-hsien-loong-and-dpm-heng-swee-keat-during-visit

I thought he came and gone already?

[5:20 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh dear, did we miss him.

CQ

[5:21 pm, 24/08/2020] +: not sure if this is the same guy you're talking about or there's another diplomat coming

[5:22 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes I think he is the guy.

I miss this news.

Dong Liang

[5:23 pm, 24/08/2020] +: The top diplomat is going to Europe tommorrow

[5:24 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Europe is my proposed 3rd target.

I am thinking of ASEAN as my 2nd target - as part of the step up "ring-fence safe tunneling".

Dong Liang

[5:24 pm, 24/08/2020] +: The one came to Singapore last week is top diplomat's predecessor and also his current boss.

[8:53 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

*“Much of our economy thrives because we have made ourselves a vibrant hub for the region and an attractive place for trade, investments, talent and ideas. We cannot take our hub status for granted, or assume that its scope and role will remain the same.”

Singapore will resume air travel safely to maintain its role as a global and regional hub,* and strengthen digital connectivity, helping companies develop their links to new markets. 

“Our efforts to fortify our resilience in critical areas like food, healthcare and supply chain management can become new sources of growth,” she said.

REACH

[9:17 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Singapore must rethink problems, evolve policies to suit a changed world, says President Halimah at Parliament opening

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/presidents-address-singapore-must-rethink-problems-evolve-policies-to-suit-a-changed-world

Ben

[9:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Good. Let's not go down the path of blaming 'foreigners' and becoming an inward looking nation!

[9:22 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Agreed

[9:23 pm, 24/08/2020] +: Yes, jobs are critical to a stable, growing, safe society.

[9:26 pm, 24/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore stands at a time of great change, and the country must rethink its problems and evolve its social models and policies to suit the new circumstances, President Halimah Yacob said on Monday (Aug 24).

For instance, Singapore could not take its hub status for granted. There was an urgent need to transform the economy and push for sustainable growth and a greener future.

The Government will be open to constructive criticism, rational debate and a new way of doing things, while the Opposition should propose policy alternatives to be scrutinised and debated besides raising questions and criticisms, she said.

Madam Halimah pledged that the Government will evolve its policies, recognising that no solutions are right for all time, and will listen to new ideas objectively. But where staying the course remains the best way forward, it will convince Singaporeans to persevere.

Securing jobs for Singaporeans will remain the Government's top priority for the next few years, but it must also ensure the benefits of progress are shared widely with all citizens, she said.