REACH (Telegram) 7 -  What are your thoughts on the latest statement and response to the Income-Allianz partnership by NTUC Enterprise? Are you now sufficiently assured that this initiative will strengthen Income’s original social values and mission to provide coverage for lower-income groups?

(SK)

31 Jul 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 9:45 AM]

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REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 10:00 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

On 30 Jul (Tuesday), NTUC Enterprise said that a stronger Income Insurance would be more competitive to offer better prices to consumers. It said that, the social enterprise model alone ‘cannot shoulder’ growth in Singapore’s competitive insurance environment, and that partnership with Allianz will strengthen the future competitiveness of Income Insurance, while upholding its social objective of doing good. 

The statement comes after members of the public and experts raised concerns about Allianz's plan to buy a majority stake in Income Insurance last week.

💬 What are your thoughts on the latest statement and response to the Income-Allianz partnership by NTUC Enterprise? Are you now sufficiently assured that this initiative will strengthen Income’s original social values and mission to provide coverage for lower-income groups?

📌  Strengthening future competitiveness of Income Insurance

NTUC Enterprise said that "strong and continuous capital support and resilience" are needed for growth. And the proposed deal with Allianz would allow Income Insurance to tap the global company's expertise in asset management and technology and product development. 

"This will strengthen the future competitiveness of Income Insurance vis-a-vis the global and regional insurers operating in a highly competitive and open Singapore market”.

📌  Maintaining social objective of doing good

NTUC Enterprise (NE) chairman Lim Boon Heng said that, the company remained committed to protecting families financially against key risks in life.

He said the co-operative model is no longer effective given Income's competitive ambition and growth plans, but NTUC Enterprise will remain a substantial shareholder to provide direction towards the social outcomes, in line with the principle of doing good and doing well.

NTUC Enterprise said Allianz and Income Insurance share common values and an ambition to grow and serve Singapore. It is convinced that the deal is in the best interests of policyholders and shareholders.

📌  Insurance pricing and coverage

Mr Lim said Income will still join key national insurance programmes even if it were to lose those bids, as its participation will provide a good benchmark on price and coverage.

But some factors like consumption of healthcare treatment, as well as external factors such as geopolitics and climate change are out of the insurer’s control.

👉 https://str.sg/xVzR

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-ntuc-enterprise-social-enterprise-business-model-4513556

----

G, [31/7/2024 10:41 AM]

"Given Income's competitive ambition and growth plans" 

So, Lim Boon Heng has let out the real reason. NTUC Income has lost its mission and unique value to Singapore and Singaporeans. 

And given Income's history of being an alternative for medical doctors indemnity insurance, won't this sale result in higher healthcare costs in SG?

https://hobbitsma.blog/2024/07/28/incomes-outcome-is-likely-to-be-worrisome/

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 11:01 AM]

[ Poll : 1. Are you sufficiently assured by NTUC Enterprise’s latest statement? ]

- Yes

- No

G, [31/7/2024 11:01 AM]

Income went from cooperative to corporate entity a few years back

And this was the reply from tharman:

https://www.mas.gov.sg/news/parliamentary-replies/2022/reply-to-parliamentary-question-on-impact-of-ntuc-income-corporatisation-on-affordability-and-access

The fact that NTUC enterprise has to sell the controlling stake to a foreign entity so soon after corporatisation just goes to show leadership failure in ntuc income and enterprise

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 11:04 AM]

[ Poll : 2. I believe the Income-Allianz partnership is a good initiative that will continue to prioritise the interests of Singaporeans.

 ]

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

G, [31/7/2024 11:04 AM]

NTUC leadership's word and actions don't gel. If they really are for Singaporeans, then the statement should always put Singapore and Singaporeans as the first and main point, not some afterthought

G, [31/7/2024 11:31 AM]

NTUC ought to be ashamed at moving away from it's social mission and the core impetus on why it was set up in the first place. 

Sheng Siong has done more for the social cause in SG than NTUC in recent times

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 11:56 AM]

290. I post in REACH (Telegram) LCL (Danny 心), [29/7/2024 3:55 PM] :-

4. Conversely, NTUC Income start off as a Cooperative to perform social services and mission..

But due to the nature of Cooperative - its structure restrict NTUC Income ability to grow, make profits - to benefits policyholders, shareholders and the Government - as it cannot raise liquidity easily due to its cooperative business structure (whereby Insurance business is capital intensive). Also it cannot achieve size advantage, go overseas to expand its business and achieve Economies of Scale.

Hence, we can see NTUC Income market share is a meagre 10% for a decade - without the means to growth.

Imagine, NTUC Income can only conduct its business domestically, and can only capture 10% of domestic market - it means its other insurance competitors (many are foreign global insurance conglomerates) have captured 90% of the domestic insurance market --- keeping NTUC Income viable and not closing shop - is already a miracle.

If nothing is done now, all the goodies health plan, saving plans offer by NTUC Income - can one day go down and close shop.

Now NTUC Income asset values are still healthy - merging at such high points will lock in a high values for NTUC Enterprise - as Allianz are willing to pay a hefty $2.2 billion for the shares - a good bargain for NTUC Enterprise.

I believe, NTUC Income will soon able to offer good health plans and saving plans not only to Singapore but also many countries market - with a low cost base as all our plans have already been cost in when planning for Singapore market - the upside revenue base will be very high for NTUC Income if we merge with Allianz.

CNA News 30 Jul 2024 05:00PM (Updated: 30 Jul 2024 05:55PM)

A social enterprise model alone "cannot shoulder" growth in Singapore's competitive insurance environment, NTUC Enterprise said in a statement on Tuesday (Jul 30). 

More than 40 global, regional and local insurers are fighting for growth in Singapore, said the majority shareholder in Income Insurance, which received an offer from German insurer Allianz for 51 per cent of its shares.

"Despite putting in very competitive bids, Income Insurance lost out on several key contracts to its global and regional competitors, such as in bancassurance, the Dependants' Protection Scheme and group insurance for a large public organisation," said NTUC Enterprise, which currently holds 72.8 per cent of Income Insurance's shares.

This proves that "strong and continuous capital support and resilience" are needed for growth, it added.

And the proposed deal with Allianz would allow Income Insurance to tap the global company's expertise in asset management and technology and product development, the statement said.

"This will strengthen the future competitiveness of Income Insurance vis-a-vis the global and regional insurers operating in a highly competitive and open Singapore market," said NTUC Enterprise.

He said the co-operative model is no long effective given Income's competitive ambition and growth plans, but NTUC Enterprise will remain a substantial shareholder to provide direction towards the social outcomes, in line with the principle of doing good and doing well.

Social enterprises and co-operatives are no longer unique in doing good - more businesses are embracing stakeholder capitalism in their corporate purposes, said Mr Lim. 

"Going forward, NTUC Enterprise intends for Income Insurance to continue to be an important financially sustainable and socially responsible business, in line with its enduring purpose of empowering financial well-being for all," he said.

Income Insurance needed not just a financial investor, but an experienced global player who can help it thrive, NTUC Enterprise said.

The combination of Income Insurance's strengths and Allianz's global capabilities can create a "highly competitive composite insurer", the statement reiterated.

"These capabilities and expertise have convinced NTUC Enterprise to cede a majority stake to Allianz."

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 12:03 PM]

[ Poll : 3. What are some of the concerns that you may still have about the Income-Allianz partnership? 

 ]

- Lack of public consultation for decision-making

- Losing homegrown enterprises to foreign companies 

- Repricing of premiums 

- Nil, as I am now assured after reading the latest statement.

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 12:04 PM]

1. NTUC Income must be financially strong in the face of about 40 global & local insurance companies competing - to be able to successfully bid for insurance contracts and benefits Singaporeans.

2. If no economies of scale, NTUC Income despite putting competitive bids - are unable to win insurance tender.

3. Hence NTUC Income has always been languishing in 10% of the market share in domestic market for a decade.

4. It is a miracle that NTUC Income is still surviving.

5. In other words, global insurance companies are able to put in lower premiums for Singaporeans than Income because of Economies of scale.

6. Hence I support Income-Allianz partnership - hopefully through Economies of scale - NTUC income can capture more tender with competitive bids and benefits Singaporeans.

7. Also hopefully, NTUC Income can ride on Allianz global Market to penetrate foreign markets.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 12:20 PM]

1. Through partnerships with Allianz, NTUC Income will be able to leverage on Allianz:-

a. Financial muscle 

b. Economies of scale 

c. Technologies 

d. Global foreign markets 

2. In so doing, NTUC Income cost can be lowered as a sunken cost to produce a product can be sold to not only Singapore market but also many overseas markets with the same cost base - hence achieving Economies of scale.

3. Hence, NTUC Income must get its market, economic and financial fundamental right.

4. The merger with Allianz tick all these boxes - and the trajectory for NTUC Income to do well in the future is very bright - and I believe NTUC Income can break out of its meagre 10% market share domestically, and will also gain footholds in other foreign markets - hence increasing NTUC Income revenue base and profitability.

5. I am more confident with NTUC Income - Allianz merger future as a policyholder.

And I am certainly looking forward to NTUC Income offering more competitive insurance products in the near future.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 12:33 PM]

1. Comparing DBS market share with NTUC Income.

2. DBS has a dominant consumer banking franchise in Singapore, and a strong consumer position in Hong Kong, Asia’s two most developed and bestregulated markets. In Singapore, through the acquisition of POSBank, DBS has about 60% market share in savings deposits and more than four million customers, over 90% of Singapore’s population.

3. DBS can do well domestically in Singapore and in fact has break into regional markets building itself up to about $743.4 billion assets values.

4. NTUC Income on the other hand only able to corner Singapore insurance market for 10% for a decade, $41.9 billion assets values as oppose to DBS 60% to 90% and not able to venture into foreign markets.

NTUC Income is 17 to 18 times smaller than DBS in assets values.

A miracle that NTUC Income still surviving.

5. DBS has presence in :-

Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, India, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Australia, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom.

6. NTUC Income market -  Singapore only - a miserable 10% market share only.

7. Now with merger with Allianz - expecting NTUC Income to be able to penetrate foreign markets and commence its journey of global presence.

G, [31/7/2024 12:41 PM]

😂 how naive to think NTUC will become what you dream it to be. Why should the bigger one with the controlling share spend resources to market the smaller NTUC? 

The Allianz brand name as you rightly pointed out has a global presence. 

What's the incentive for Allianz to spend their own resources to grow NTUC to a global brand to benefit Singapore and Singaporeans?

This part is still as clear as mud. Allianz clearly is a for profit organisation with a controlling stake in a home grown company. They also have a recent history of financial fraud

 https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/allianz-pay-6-bln-over-structured-alpha-fraud-fund-manager-charged-2022-05-17/

And to dream like what you did, and using your imaginations to justify selling off national assets to a foreign organisation with a track record of fraud and still claim to be pro-Singapore.. that pro-Singapore claim is very questionable.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 12:59 PM]

1. NTUC income as a co-operative, and a domestic company that can only operate in Singapore market is like 2 hands tie behind the back and enter into a boxing ring - to fight world boxers.

2. Cooperative is very restrictive, unable to raise capital like other corporate, confine to social objectives but yet got to take on global corporates without such restrictions - withe strong financial muscle, competitive market discipline and corporate structure with economies of scale to take on NTUC Income in tender bidding - of course NTUC Income will get hammer left, right and center until 黑眼睛。

3. Corporatising NTUC Income in 2022 only free up 1 hand - but still get hamtam by the global insurance competitors - how a $41.9 billions company beat the global $1 trillion companies with economies of scale?

4. Only through partnership with Allianz can free NTUC Income both hands - to get into the boxing ring with a fair fight.

As all NTUC Income disadvantage will be neutralized.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 1:08 PM]

1. Correction - NTUC Income has some overseas presence selling insurance products through other insurance companies from Malaysia, Cambodia, Myanmar, Indonesia, Vietnam after corporatisation.

2. But revenue not indicated, expected to be relatively small.

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 1:12 PM]

[ Poll : 1. Are you sufficiently assured by NTUC Enterprise’s latest statement? ]

- Yes

- No

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 1:12 PM]

[ Poll : 2. I believe the Income-Allianz partnership is a good initiative that will continue to prioritise the interests of Singaporeans. ]

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 1:13 PM]

[ Poll : 3. What are some of the concerns that you may still have about the Income-Allianz partnership?  ]

- Lack of public consultation for decision-making

- Losing homegrown enterprises to foreign companies 

- Repricing of premiums 

- Nil, as I am now assured after reading the latest statement

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 1:22 PM]

Allianz credentials:-

Car Insurance you can trust

For car insurance, Defaqto has given our Allianz cover level 5 stars – their highest rating. We're rated Excellent on Trustpilot - 4.5 stars out of 5! Thanks to our customers. We were voted 'best motor insurance provider' at the Insurance choice awards 2023.

On June 20, 2024, S&P Global Ratings affirmed its 'AA/A-1+' long- and short-term issuer credit ratings and 'AA' financial strength rating on global multiline insurer Allianz and its core subsidiaries. Our outlook on the rating remains stable.20 Jun 2024.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 1:23 PM]

In 2021, it was the fourth largest insurance company worldwide by revenue. In terms of total assets, Allianz was ranked second globally in 2023, with an asset value surpassing one trillion U.S. dollars. Allianz also proved to be sixth most valuable German brand in 2022, with a brand value over 40 billion euros.10 Jan 2024

CK Lee, [31/7/2024 1:39 PM]

Is there sufficient assurance about strengthening Income's original social values and mission to provide coverage for lower-income groups? 

- I have yet to see any specific details on how lower-income groups will be protected or prioritized under the new structure. 

- will there be more profit-driven initiatives or new targets for  social concerns & well being?? 

- what are the long-term implications of having a majority foreign stakeholder on Income's social mission? Foreign is still “foreign”. 

- the truth is eventually we have to rough it out through “testing” of these assurances in any form of Income's actions and policies after the partnership is established. So we have to wait and see.

G, [31/7/2024 1:46 PM]

😂 you just described the situation where it's so conducive for a big fish eat small fish scenario.

And the proposed deal of Allianz owning the controlling stake of NTUC Income shows it. National assets being eaten.

Yes, NTUC income as a cooperative does have structural limitations. And the leadership saw fit to restructure into a corporate entity. To then sell the controlling stake to a foreign organisation just 2 years after going corporate is evidence of gross leadership incompetence 

Where and what then is the basis for the optimism that NTUC can grow to support Singaporeans better? 

Blind optimism and misplaced trust is the main driver behind virtually all scams. And the scammers love to whisper sweet promises to make the scam appear sweet

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 1:48 PM]

Agree.

This are logical concern after taking economical, financial and market fundamentals into account.

Hopefully, these will be address.

G, [31/7/2024 1:53 PM]

They better be addressed before and deal is even considered and not some post economic academic rant afterthought.

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 2:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 2:03 PM]

They haven't addresse why 51% not 49%

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 2:11 PM]

Having say so, economically, financially - NTUC Income must be able to be viable first.

Without this assurance, whatever social missions, objectives and services cannot be materialised.

Because if NTUC Income cannot compete and close shop, how to fulfill its social missions, objectives and services?

This is something very basic, very fundamental.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 2:15 PM]

Having say so, raising those concerns about social missions and objectives to our local Singaporeans for an answer is the next logical step -

With NTUC Income viability and survivability fully address, out of the picture and not threatening its survival.

G, [31/7/2024 2:20 PM]

Deals like this don't happen overnight. Typically takes at least a year of careful study and deliberations. 

Given that this deal happened just 2 years after NTUC was corporatised heavily suggests either gross leadership incompetence or there was already a desire to sell out national assets when NTUC income was still a cooperative. Going corporate was just an intermediate step

G, [31/7/2024 2:22 PM]

😂 putting the cart before the horse

G, [31/7/2024 2:30 PM]

Still not able to see how baseless wild imaginations and empty promises assurances are still being used to justify selling off controlling stake of national assets (and indirectly, SG sovereignty) to foreign for-profit entities with track records of financial fraud, is in the best interest of Singapore and Singaporeans.

And to sweeten the deal, the chairman also not so clean

https://theindependent.sg/who-was-the-acting-chairman-then-singaporeans-demand-full-transparency-despite-assurances-that-income-chair-recused-himself-over-conflict-of-interest-concerns/

On paper can recuse. But is it the same in practice? No one will really  know.

CK Lee, [31/7/2024 2:59 PM]

Tommy Koh 'not convinced' by NTUC Enterprise's explanation

https://mustsharenews.com/tommy-koh-not-convinced/

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 3:00 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 3:10 PM]

Tommy Koh is 感性， 不理性。

Emotional not Rational.

That's populist first, before pragmatic.

To run an organisation successfully, a CEO got to put :-

Pragmatism first before emotion.

John Yong, [31/7/2024 3:15 PM]

What are your thoughts on the latest statement and response to the Income-Allianz partnership by NTUC Enterprise? 

IMHO, this is a necessary step, given that the landscape has changed. 

1. Development of the local insurance market has led to a large number of regional and global entrants.

2. These players have shown that they are able to provide products which are competitively priced and which meet customer needs. (The fact that Income has around 10% market share speaks to that.)

3. That being said, Income still plays an important role as Mr Lim mentioned, in bidding as needed, to provide a source of independent price discovery.

For example, we cannot expect everything in NTUC Fairprice to be the cheapest in Singapore, and it would not make sense to. That being said, just by having Fairprice around, provides an important price-control and competition and check to other players.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 3:16 PM]

Tommy Koh track record is in public service throughout all his career and have never manage and run a business.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 3:17 PM]

Tommy Koh is Ambassador-At-Large at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and Chairman of the Institute of Policy Studies and the National Heritage Board. He was formerly Dean of the Law Faculty at NUS. He had served as Singapore’s Permanent Representative to the UN in New York and Ambassador to the United States of America, Canada and Mexico. He was also the President of the Third UN Conference on the Law of the Sea and chaired the Earth Summit. He was the founding Chairman of the National Arts Council and the founding Executive Director of the Asia-Europe Foundation. He had served as the UN Secretary-General’s Special Envoy to Russia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. He was also Singapore’s Chief Negotiator for the USA-Singapore Free Trade Agreement. He has chaired two dispute panels for the WTO.

G, [31/7/2024 3:29 PM]

This comment totally underscores Tommy Koh's warnings and it appears you only cherry picked this portion of tommy Koh's remarks to say emotional, not rational.

"Ending his post on a more emotional note, Prof Koh lamented the situation faced by the younger generation. He said:

I feel sad that for many younger Singaporeans nothing is sacred and everything is for sale.

He also urged people to remember the words of Singapore’s first Foreign Affairs Minister, S. Rajaratnam.

“He warned us not to become a nation of people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing,” he said."

Because tommy koh cited concrete evidence of NTUC Income's value to Singapore and Singaporeans, that foreign for-profit entities will not bring to the table 

https://mustsharenews.com/tommy-koh-not-convinced/

G, [31/7/2024 3:32 PM]

Tommy Koh's views represent something larger and wider, and not narrowly focused on the academic economics profit and loss arguments.

And has used a large part of his life representing Singapore on the world stage. He would know a thing or 2 about sovereignty.

To dismiss his views as emotional not rational, even labeling as populist..

And still call yourself pro-Singapore.. 😂

John Yong, [31/7/2024 3:47 PM]

Are you now sufficiently assured that this initiative will strengthen Income’s original social values and mission to provide coverage for lower-income groups?

To me, how Income continues to serve its social values and mission - is by being around. If Income is not commercially viable, it will be gone in a matter of time, and the people of Singapore will be the poorer for it. Thus, I believe this step to ensure that continued survival and competitiveness of Income is the right step to take. 

The whole purpose of Income is, to me, to:

1. Serve the underserved segments of Singapore. Meaning to a. innovate in terms of products eg to provide coverage for rare childhood diseases, eg to provide coverage for gig and delivery workers, etc - at a reasonable and viable cost. 

2. Provide a price/ quality control - eg by bidding for say Integrated Shield Plans, coverage for NS men and other national insurance initiatives and also to continually improve on existing product coverage and innovation. 

3. Providing financial and insurance outreach and education for the less informed and younger among us. 

4. Providing whole life, endowment and other products to aid in the financing objectives and retirement of people in Singapore. 

The whole idea is that for those who need and want coverage in Singapore, they have access to it, at a good quality and price. And perhaps in a 'no-frills' way, which Income is known for. But just like no one can be forced to prioritise purchasing food for the family over (say) spending on cigarettes or gambling, no one can be 'forced' to buy insurance, however needed it may be. The idea is to make it available, so as to achieve the best outcome for the people of Singapore. 🙏

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 3:48 PM]

Very sensible and logical view points.

I am just waiting for you to type out your comments.

John Yong, [31/7/2024 3:50 PM]

🙏

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 3:52 PM]

In fact, I will respect Tommy Koh more if he has successfully run a sizeable billions dollar company before making his statement of high moral values based on sound economical and financial fundamentals.

What if NTUC Income follow what Tommy Koh say, and few years down the road, no longer viable and need to close shop?

Will Tommy Koh continue to fly his high moral grounding flag with a Singapore badge?

He probably will blame the CEO for not making a sound business decision.

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 4:02 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 4:04 PM]

When that happens, all our policyholders suffer collateral damages.

All our health insurance and saving plans will go down the drain.

Tommy Koh expect who to bail it out?

And NTUC Income will be forced to sell at a firesale price rather than the $2.2 billions high price to NTUC Enterprise.

Now NTUC Income upside and potential is very high despite holding 49% of the shares.

Its asset values can multiply many times given it a few years to grow its business.

Alex Chua, [31/7/2024 4:05 PM]

Looks like this group chat has been dominated by a person. 

Megan, what is objective of having this discussion group?

G, [31/7/2024 4:07 PM]

Another comment that exemplifies the warning of our country's founders. 

"... to remember the words of Singapore’s first Foreign Affairs Minister, S. Rajaratnam.

“He warned us not to become a nation of people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing,” he said...."

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 4:09 PM]

I believe no one will stop you from dominating the discussion if you have ideas or feedback to contribute.

It is an open forum.

Alex Chua, [31/7/2024 4:47 PM]

I do not wish to enter into an argument with anyone. 

My feedback is directed to the admin of the group and is not aiming at any member of the group.

It is for the owner of the group to decide whether he wants to hear ideas/views from as many people as possible, or to hear from only 1 or few persons that dominated the group discussion.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 4:54 PM]

Well, there is no limit or quota to any participants feedback. The platform allows it.

And no one should be intimidated by the number of views put across in the forum.

This is not a face to face focus group - whereby each participants are given a certain time to talk and then stop.

If a participant has more ideas to contribute, why stop it?

Cannot be a case whereby must wait for people to talk before a person can talk?

Most of the time, the forum is comm silence.

My previous chat group is better, no need prompting, there are more active participants chip in to talk.

ChewyRuza, [31/7/2024 4:56 PM]

I’m going to sound really ignorant here but I don’t really know what the partnership entails for us

Dr. Goh, [31/7/2024 4:57 PM]

Looking at how people in charge find excuses to sell out key institutions like Income I expect a price tag for every politician who doesn't put a stop to this deal. Which means the control of Singapore can be bought easily if the price is right.

It is clear from the article that Income will have a stake in CPF Life. Imagine your retirement dictated by foreign entities while the government claims it cannot control that, would you still trust your hard earned money in CPF?

Dr. Goh, [31/7/2024 4:59 PM]

Put a stop to this deal and any others that involve key assets of interest. Hyflux was "fixed" previously and prevented from selling itself to foreign entities so this is actually possible. We can assess the motivations of every politician by observing their actions.

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 5:04 PM]

Indeed a warning

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 5:19 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 5:40 PM]

CPF Life is a life annuity scheme provided by the Singapore government, and the underwriting insurance companies are:

1. *Great Eastern Life Assurance Co Ltd*

2. *NTUC Income Insurance Co-operative Ltd*

3. *Singapore Life Ltd* (formerly known as Aviva Singapore)

These three insurance companies are appointed by the Singapore government to provide the CPF Life scheme, which offers a guaranteed lifetime income to eligible CPF members.

CPF Life provides a monthly payout from age 65, and the payout amount depends on the member's CPF savings and the annuity plan chosen. The three underwriting insurance companies are responsible for managing the CPF Life funds and making the monthly payouts to policyholders.

Note that CPF Life is a government-backed scheme, and the Singapore government guarantees the payouts, so policyholders can have peace of mind knowing their retirement income is secure.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 5:41 PM]

Who is Singlife owned by?

HOME-GROWN Singlife will be a wholly owned subsidiary of Japanese life insurer Sumitomo Life Insurance. Sumitomo Life entered into a binding agreement to purchase all the 35 per cent shares in the Singaporean insurer held by TPG, which has been an investor since 2020, said Singlife on Friday (Dec 22).22 Dec 2023

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 5:47 PM]

CPF LIFE savings are also guaranteed by the Singapore Government, whereas private annuities are subject to investment market returns. 

In addition, as CPF LIFE is non-profit and administered by the CPF Board, it does not incur additional costs from advertising and agents’ commissions. 

Finally, having a large member base also means longevity risks and costs can be better spread out. 

All these factors allow CPF LIFE to provide more value on your monthly payouts and you can be more assured of a peaceful retirement.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 5:51 PM]

The next question to consider is why CPF LIFE instead of a private annuity plan. 

For starters, CPF LIFE can offer you payouts for life, in addition to being a safe product with risk-free returns. 

Even if a private annuity plan can provide payouts for life, it is not as secure as an annuity guaranteed by the Singapore government. 

Being non-profit and administered by the CPF Board, CPF LIFE also doesn’t incur any costs from advertising and agents’ commissions.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 5:55 PM]

Wonder whether can REACH bring back a couple of the few kakis from WhatsApp REACH group 2 to this Telegram group.

They will usually help to post all these information to help in the discussion to correct misconception.

Then I won't be the one being seen as "dominating" the forum.

Also less taxing for me.

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 6:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:02 PM]

Response from Meta AI:-

Yes, the CPF Board has implemented measures to "fence" the CPF Life payouts against private insurers, to ensure that the payouts are protected and guaranteed by the Singapore government. Here are some measures:

1. *Government guarantee*: The Singapore government guarantees the CPF Life payouts, ensuring that policyholders receive their monthly payouts for life, regardless of market performance.

2. *Ring-fencing*: The CPF Board has ring-fenced the CPF Life funds, separating them from the private insurers' own funds. This ensures that CPF Life payouts are not affected by the insurers' financial performance.

3. *Capital requirements*: Private insurers are required to hold additional capital to support the CPF Life business, providing an extra layer of protection for policyholders.

4. *Regulatory oversight*: The CPF Board and the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) closely monitor the private insurers' management of CPF Life funds, ensuring compliance with regulations and protection of policyholders' interests.

5. *Separate accounts*: Private insurers are required to maintain separate accounts for CPF Life funds, ensuring that these funds are kept distinct from their own assets and liabilities.

These measures ensure that CPF Life payouts are protected and guaranteed by the Singapore government, providing policyholders with peace of mind and financial security in their retirement.

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 6:46 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

G, [31/7/2024 6:52 PM]

@reachsg1 

Seriously.. is this group for humans to give feedback? 

Or for AI generated lectures?

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:53 PM]

Tbh I don't care about this topic does not really affect me anyway

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:53 PM]

You want to sell sell lor. It's pap asset what

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:54 PM]

Not my problem...

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:54 PM]

Quoting the source of information to lend credibility and acknowledgement is the right protocol in discussion and to acknowledge the source we get from.

So that it is not plagiarism.

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:55 PM]

If not happy just don't let pap be the majority

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:55 PM]

Discussion must be based on right facts.

Not misinformation.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:56 PM]

Even to the point of Singapore bankrupt?

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:56 PM]

So many public outlash still want to sell.

G, [31/7/2024 6:56 PM]

That's a valid point man. Perhaps many have forgotten it's become a political party's tool

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:57 PM]

As long I don't bankrupt can liao

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:57 PM]

LKY can withstand public outlash - as long as it is good for Singapore.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:57 PM]

Oh you mean Singapore can bankrupt.

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:57 PM]

I don't even know Singapore can survive for the next 30 years

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:59 PM]

That's why we need leaders with foresight and vision that are able to look beyond the superficial no matter how unpopular a policy is as long as it is for the long term good of Singapore.

LCL (Danny 心), [31/7/2024 6:59 PM]

Based on pragmatism not emotion.

Jun Ming, [31/7/2024 6:59 PM]

With politicial tension out there I pretty sure wwiii may happen within the next 50 years

REACH Singapore, [31/7/2024 7:00 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

===