REACH (Telegram) 4 - What are your thoughts on the partnership between Income and Allianz to provide affordable insurance to lower-income individuals? Do you think this initiative will affect Income's mission to prioritise the needs of middle- to low-income Singapore workers?
(SK)
25 Jul 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH (Telegram)
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 10:18 AM]
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REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 10:20 AM]
📢 Topic 📢
Germany's Allianz plans to acquire a majority stake in Singapore's Income Insurance for about US$1.6 billion, prompting concerns about affordable insurance for lower-income customers. NTUC Enterprise chairman Lim Boon Heng assured that Income will maintain its commitment to affordable and accessible insurance, participate in national programs, and remain competitive.
There have been concerns about the possible sale, that it could undermine Income's social mission to maximize social impact over profits. However, NTUC Enterprise believes Allianz's involvement will enhance Income's competitiveness and long-term relevance while upholding its social commitments.
💬 What are your thoughts on the partnership between Income and Allianz to provide affordable insurance to lower-income individuals? Do you think this initiative will affect Income's mission to prioritise the needs of middle- to low-income Singapore workers?
"This majority stake is expected to elevate Allianz’s presence in the fast-growing and attractive Singapore insurance market," Allianz said. Allianz also said it intends for Income Insurance to continue to recognise the union and uphold the principles of good labour management relations as advocated by the tripartite partners in Singapore.
📌 Affordable Insurance Products
NTUC Enterprise Chairmain Mr Lim Boon Heng said that Income Insurance will continue to provide affordable and accessible insurance options tailored for underserved and lower-income customers, including specific products like LUV and SilverCare policies.
📌 Participation in National Programs
Income Insurance will continue to participate in national insurance programmes in partnership with the CPF Board.
Allianz’s offer to be a majority shareholder will enable Income Insurance to be even more relevant and resilient over the long term, to serve families in Singapore, and fulfil its obligations to its policyholders.
📌 Competitive Pricing
Mr Lim also notes that Income insurance will continue to price its products competitively, and that bringing in a global player with proven insurance and asset management capabilities would help Income compete more effectively.
👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-majority-stake-bid-affordable-lower-income-4500661?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_25072024_cna
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G, [25/7/2024 10:24 AM]
Selling out SG, one organisation at a time
Adam, [25/7/2024 10:24 AM]
I wonder what do they mean by 'lower-income customers'. If they need more insurance, is medishield life not enough?
Also what is the premiums for targeting this segment? Especially when they are old? And will our elders be able to enter this policy?
G, [25/7/2024 10:26 AM]
"Assurances" mean nothing. Actions mean everything. By selling off cooperatives, selling off SG
G, [25/7/2024 10:32 AM]
"partnership" between income and Allianz? Trying too hard to phrase it positively?
This is a pure for-profit business deal. Where the rich continue to siphon money off the poor. Make the rich richer and the poor poorer
Is this part of the insurance industry shake up that OYK mentioned a few months back?
After this what? The PAP govt will come in with CDC vouchers for people to buy insurance, and a new way for them to buy people's votes?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 10:45 AM]
I don't feel the current insurance packages offer by Income are different from many commercial insurance package offer by GE, Manulife, etc.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 10:50 AM]
In fact, some public service insurance packages are won by commercial insurance companies providing more competitive prices.
Eg. NS men insurance packages are won by singlife and Aviva.
Adam, [25/7/2024 10:50 AM]
If pap gives grant to buy insurance. Confirm all prices go up by the same amount
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 10:51 AM]
*NS Man Insurance Coverage*
The NS man insurance coverage is provided by Singlife with Aviva ¹ ² ³. Here are some key points about the coverage:
- *Free Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident Insurance*: The Ministry of Defence (Mindef) and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) provide free Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident insurance cover to all full-time national servicemen (NSFs) and operationally ready national servicemen (NSmen) while they are on official duties ¹ ² ³.
- *Voluntary Scheme*: NSmen can continue their coverage even after they have completed their full-time National Service by purchasing additional Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident coverage under the Voluntary Scheme ¹ ² ³.
- *Coverage Amount*: The coverage amount can be extended up to $1 million for Group Term Life and up to $600,000 for Group Personal Accident ¹ ² ³.
- *Premiums*: The premiums for these policies are fixed, and NSmen can pay the same amount upon renewal every year until they're 65 for Group Term Life or 70 for Group Personal Accident ¹ ² ³.
- *Family Coverage*: Insured members' spouses and children can also be covered at the same rate ¹ ² ³.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 10:52 AM]
It is all about financial muscle, and whether the package benefits customers and make money for the insurance companies.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 10:59 AM]
In fact some commercial insurance companies offer more competitive insurance packages than income.
Eg. Manulife offer 3.5% Saving plan.
Income offer 3.38%.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 11:05 AM]
If NTUC is political significant figure why income which is part of NTUC can be acquired by foreign company?
G, [25/7/2024 11:16 AM]
First few steps of "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy"
SG selling off home grown organisations to foreign for-profit ones. SG won't be owning anything soon. NOL was gone, SPH etc. Might as well sell off temasek and gic to the lowest bidder too
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:18 AM]
Manulife through DBS minimum sum placement is $5,000 and can use srs and have open for few months.
Income is $1,000, cannot use srs. Open for less than 1 to 2 weeks.
Low and middle income benefits more from DBS Manulife package.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:20 AM]
Nol and sph are making less and less profit and even losses.
Keep wasting away singapore reserves.
If don't sell and cut loss, let it continues to bleed and Singapore reserves keep dwindling?
G, [25/7/2024 11:22 AM]
Lim Boon Heng is affiliated with WEF. Wasn't he also around in NOL when it was sold off?
Selling out the country. Traitor
G, [25/7/2024 11:23 AM]
Ah.. so your answer to set backs is just give up and quit and sell out to foreigners 👍
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:24 AM]
All loss cutting companies should be sold off.
Else we taxpayers money keep paying taxes to keep loss making company afloat?
G, [25/7/2024 11:25 AM]
😂 at this rate can sell out the public hospitals too since they are loss making and need taxpayers to prop up?
G, [25/7/2024 11:26 AM]
Make the leaders of NOL / NTUC income commit hari Kiri first
G, [25/7/2024 11:27 AM]
Do it the LYK way. Hold the leaders of the organisations responsible for the organisations' failures
G, [25/7/2024 11:27 AM]
Look at Ng yat chung
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:27 AM]
There is such thing call sunset company and sunrise company.
Sunset sell.
Sunrise keep.
G, [25/7/2024 11:28 AM]
NOL dive bombed under his leadership. And what happened to him? Rewarded with leadership of SPH
G, [25/7/2024 11:28 AM]
So NTUC income is sunset?
Insurance industry is sunset?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:31 AM]
Some countries reserves have been depleted because they don't subject to market discipline.
Even loss making companies bail out.
Singapore conduct market discipline.
Non strategic companies, sunset company, loss making - sell.
Profit making, strategic companies - keep.
No need to be nostalgic.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:32 AM]
Later I will talk about this.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:33 AM]
Singapore sovereign funds grow - one of the highest in the world because of market discipline.
Not nostalgic, not sentimental, not blind nationalism.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:35 AM]
Evidently, when I check, public hospitals though not profit driven are making money and sustainable.
G, [25/7/2024 11:42 AM]
Not about nostalgia. About keeping sovereignty. Like what Jun Ming mentioned earlier: NTUC is politically significant person
So it's subsidiary can anyhow sell to foreigners?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:43 AM]
Because Singapore has no natural resources..
The only natural resources we have are:-
1. Humans capital
2. Sovereign funds and reserves
G, [25/7/2024 11:43 AM]
At this rate can sell out the sovereign funds and reserves too
G, [25/7/2024 11:44 AM]
NTUC was first set up to keep prices low, be it groceries, or even insurance.
G, [25/7/2024 11:44 AM]
It's long lost it.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:45 AM]
So you suggest keep all the loss making companies, deplete our reserves and all goes our CPF money invested by GIC?
G, [25/7/2024 11:45 AM]
Haha. Why the fear mongering on reserves depletion?
G, [25/7/2024 11:45 AM]
NTUC was set up to meet social needs. To keep prices low. All these come at a cost
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:45 AM]
Based on what you say - yes.
G, [25/7/2024 11:46 AM]
If anything then temasek and gic better work harder
G, [25/7/2024 11:46 AM]
To pay for the social costs of organisations like NTUC
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:46 AM]
Does GIC invest money from the Central Provident Fund (CPF)? GIC, along with the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS), manages the proceeds from the Special Singapore Government Securities (SSGS) that are issued and guaranteed by the Government, which the CPF Board has invested in with the CPF monies.
G, [25/7/2024 11:47 AM]
So what you are suggesting is that temasek and GIC are not working hard enough because they are unable to continue the reserves growth whilst spending on necessary social needs?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:48 AM]
Many pension funds in the world are making loss and cannot pay out - because their investment go astray.
This happen to US, China, Japan, EU, Taiwan, Malaysia etc.
G, [25/7/2024 11:48 AM]
Back to topic
G, [25/7/2024 11:49 AM]
And back to the reason NTUC income etc were set up in the first place
G, [25/7/2024 11:49 AM]
Stop finding excuses for their failures
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:49 AM]
Based on what you suggest, keeping loss making companies and continue to fund it, our reserves will be gone, and CPF will also be gone.
Now temasek, GIC and mas are doing well.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:50 AM]
US - In 2023, the funded percentage of these plans decreased slightly from 99.4 percent to 98.5 percent. Concurrently, the pension deficit saw a significant increase, rising from US$8.5bn to US$19.9bn. The average return on investments was reported at 7.2 percent.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:50 AM]
China's premier government think tank, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, estimates that the basic pension fund for urban employees will be depleted by 2035. China's pension system — the world's largest by total enrollees, while Japan's ranks No. 1 by assets — was once a robust government-only program.
G, [25/7/2024 11:51 AM]
No. First cut should always be to put competent leaders in the organisations and hold them accountable and replace them ruthlessly
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:51 AM]
EU Parliament plans to slash MEP pension fund amid deficit crisis
G, [25/7/2024 11:51 AM]
Very shortly after NOL was sold off, it became profitable for their new owners
G, [25/7/2024 11:52 AM]
If anything, this shows gross incompetence of the previous leadership
G, [25/7/2024 11:52 AM]
Why are we the taxpayers putting up with and paying for leadership incompetence?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:58 AM]
Neptune Orient Lines Limited (NOL) was a Singaporean container shipping company. It was founded in 1968 as Singapore's national shipping line, but was later sold as a subsidiary to French shipping company CMA CGM in 2016.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 11:59 AM]
Well shipping lines undergo consolidation.
CMA CGM is a big shippers - of course make money.
Same as cosco.
Same as Maersk.
Not possible, for a small freighter to compete on world market - thus right strategy to sell.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:00 PM]
Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) lawmakers on Thursday urged labor insurance reforms after the Cabinet announced a plan to inject NT$45 billion (US$1.42 billion) to bolster Taiwan’s insurance funds.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:00 PM]
Malaysians face poverty after retirement as pension crisis looms
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:01 PM]
Japan's state pension fund, the world's largest, posted a loss of ¥683.2 billion ($4.5 billion) on total assets during the three months through September as its holdings of domestic debt slumped by a record. The Government Pension Investment Fund lost 0.3% during the quarter, the fund said in Tokyo Thursday.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:03 PM]
Singapore CPF pension funds - is only very rare in the world that is still paying very healthy interest rate to us.
And seniors can comfortably withdraw their life savings at old age.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:04 PM]
If everyone believe government should follow this gentleman blind faith - even loss making companies must keep.
I think we can kiss and wave bye bye to our CPF pension funds already.
Anyone?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:16 PM]
Once I overheard a Minister saying - don't expect government to use funds to bail out GLCs companies which are not making money unless very strategic ones that are vital to national security.
And even so, strategic companies must turn profitable.
Eg. SIA during pandemic time.
Minister say, the ultimate consideration is Singapore interest, not individual company.
Many years later, a reputable investment chief say the same thing to all the GLCs CEOs.
I quietly applaud their Wisdom.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:26 PM]
1. Based on what I read about the Income - it is a cooperative design for social services.
2. Hence it cannot solicit and pool capitals from traditional source like listing in stock exchange and hence very restrictive to its organic growth.
3. Income market is only within Singapore - a small population market of about 5.65 million people - a small indeed.
Now income has done well, but reach the peak of its growth constrained by the size of Singapore small market.
The only way to further grow is to enter the global market.
Being a cooperative, it cannot do so.
So the next natural step is to merge with another global insurance company with same values to grow.
Allianz is a trillion $ German company with insurance market all over the world.
It will make income grow phenomenally and offer even better insurance packages to Singaporeans because of its financial muscle, wider global customer base, and economies of scale.
I will think that Singaporeans will benefit more than less.
G, [25/7/2024 12:31 PM]
That's right, rationalising selling out the country to foreigners bit by bit 👍. Lagi use off topic things like CPF to spin the tale
NTUC is a politically significant person. And a deal is on the table to sell significant portions
G, [25/7/2024 12:32 PM]
If what you claim is true
G, [25/7/2024 12:32 PM]
What assurances do Singaporeans have that Lim Boon Heng will keep his word?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:32 PM]
Because Allianz has access to 8 billions people in global market versus Singapore miserable 5.65 million people.
Allianz has access to US$101 trillion global GDP versus Singapore US $466.8 billions GDP.
And Singapore Income still own 49% of our shares, not completely sold everything.
So if Allianz help us to grow 2 to 3 times our current size for Income, our reserves will be very rich, our CPF pension funds will be even stronger.
Blind nationalism, nostalgia don't help.
In addition, the insurance packages offer to Singaporeans will be very competitive because of economies of scale offer to world market.
G, [25/7/2024 12:33 PM]
Why and how does Income's growth translate to SG reserve growth?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:34 PM]
Anyhow spin.
Income is not under political significant person PSP.
NTUC union is.
G, [25/7/2024 12:36 PM]
🤣
G, [25/7/2024 12:37 PM]
This is like saying PA is not PAP
G, [25/7/2024 12:37 PM]
Everything true on paper only
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:38 PM]
NTUC Income is a cooperative insurance company in Singapore, and it is not directly under the control of any political significant person. However, NTUC Income is a subsidiary of the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC), which is a trade union federation in Singapore.
The NTUC has close ties with the ruling People's Action Party (PAP) in Singapore, and some of its leaders have held political appointments. For example:
1. Ng Chee Meng: The current Secretary-General of NTUC is also a Member of Parliament (MP) and the Minister for Education.
2. Chan Chun Sing: The former Secretary-General of NTUC is also a Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Finance.
While NTUC Income is not directly controlled by any political significant person, its parent organization, NTUC, has connections to the ruling party in Singapore. However, NTUC Income operates independently and is governed by its own board of directors, which includes representatives from the insurance industry, finance, and healthcare.
It's worth noting that NTUC Income is a cooperative insurance company, which means it is owned and controlled by its policyholders, rather than external shareholders. This cooperative structure is designed to ensure that the company serves the interests of its policyholders and the broader community, rather than maximizing profits for external investors.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:39 PM]
Income not under political significant person.
G, [25/7/2024 12:39 PM]
Ah.. and NTUC enterprise chairman LIm Boon Heng had to come out and assure?
G, [25/7/2024 12:40 PM]
"owned and controlled by policy holders" 🤣 49% nia
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:42 PM]
NTUC Income, as a cooperative insurance company, is required to contribute to the Singapore government's reserves through various means:
1. *Dividend payments*: NTUC Income pays dividends to its parent company, NTUC, which in turn contributes a portion of these dividends to the Singapore government's reserves.
2. *Investment returns*: NTUC Income invests its assets, including premiums collected from policyholders, in various instruments such as bonds, equities, and real estate. The returns on these investments are also contributed to the Singapore government's reserves.
3. *Tax payments*: NTUC Income pays taxes on its profits to the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (IRAS), which contributes to the government's revenue and ultimately, the national reserves.
4. *Special dividend payments*: In times of exceptional profits, NTUC Income may declare special dividends, which can also contribute to the national reserves.
However, it's important to note that NTUC Income's primary focus is on serving its policyholders and providing affordable insurance coverage, rather than maximizing contributions to the national reserves.
The Singapore government's reserves are managed by various entities, including the Government Investment Corporation (GIC), Temasek Holdings, and the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS). These entities invest and manage the reserves to generate returns, which can be used to fund public expenditures, support economic development, and maintain Singapore's financial stability.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:42 PM]
NTUC do contribute to reserves.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:43 PM]
As of December 2022, National Trades Union Congress (NTUC) Fairprice Co-operative reported total assets of around 5.42 billion Singapore dollars, down from around 5.62 billion Singapore dollars in the previous year.29 May 2024
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:44 PM]
If Allianz can grow our assets 2, 3 or 4 times.
If use calculator to count, it will be say 20 billion.
49%, easily 9.8 billions.
G, [25/7/2024 12:52 PM]
😂 so.. with this deal it seems the cat is out of the bag. The real reason to sell off national assets is not primarily for policy holders' benefits. It's a by the way, ex-politician spiel to "lubricate" this news..
Now, which policy holders decided to sell off 51% of Income?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:56 PM]
Anyone support this guy if our CPF pension funds go into deficit by hanging on to companies not able to grow or make loss?
Income now cannot grow further in Singapore market - fully saturated.
Being a cooperative cannot go global to seek further funding and sell to global markets.
So I support selling income 90% to Allianz to further grow our assets.
G, [25/7/2024 12:57 PM]
Traitorous
G, [25/7/2024 12:57 PM]
Might as well sell the country while you are at it
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 12:58 PM]
Well you can hang on to a sinking ship like titanic.
I support government make a bigger ships and do better for all Singaporeans.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 12:59 PM]
But... If NTUC income sold to allianz income is still under control of NTUC enterprise right
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:00 PM]
I think so
G, [25/7/2024 1:00 PM]
How so if allianz owns 51% of it?
G, [25/7/2024 1:01 PM]
It's like saying minority has control. Does WP have control of sg govt or PAP?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:01 PM]
Then what ever the chairman said is just empty promises
G, [25/7/2024 1:02 PM]
Exactly... Talk only. very easy.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:03 PM]
So it means income will become a private entity instead of a government entity
G, [25/7/2024 1:04 PM]
And with this deal, how does NTUC income still maintain it's mission to be a coorperative and keep premiums low and products good?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:05 PM]
And is there any check and balance where they won't take the money and zhao
G, [25/7/2024 1:06 PM]
If anything, it may well be the start of low premiums with bad offerings... then other issurers see already, follow suit.. because the NTUC brand still somehow seen as a standard setter.. will result in worse outcomes for all
G, [25/7/2024 1:06 PM]
except the national reserves and allianz shareholders
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:06 PM]
Ask everyone here.
If Singapore bankrupt, loss money, cannot pay CPF - like what this guy suggest - who is more traitorous?
Now Singapore government can honour our CPF pension funds unlike many rich countries.
Is Singapore government more competent and put Singaporeans at heart than what this guy - blind nationalism, and irrational logic suggest?
Penny wise but pound foolish.
I rather Singapore government has the bigger wisdom.
That's why Singapore are doing very well.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:08 PM]
Actually, income premium is not that low because it does not have an economies of scale unlike global insurance companies who have access to bigger fund sources and global customers.
That is why many commercial insurance companies can offer better payout rate in Singapore.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:09 PM]
True
G, [25/7/2024 1:10 PM]
😂 Why ask this? why not question why the leadership of such organisations are so incompetent that resulted in selling sg assets to foreigners? Why weren't these incompetent leaders able to grow the organisations such that we are the ones buying foreign assets?
Instead you are excusing leadership failure, and trying to spin traitorous actions as advantageous for SG. It's calling good evil, and evil good.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:14 PM]
You see, I don't have to convince one person who is hardcore and unbendable.
Despite the rational views are presented.
I only have to convince the majority of the people who are more rational, sensible, and can listen and accept good judgement and reasoning.
Not those irrational, not sensible people.
Ultimately, it is those sensible and rational people who contribute to the vote for a competent government to win - never mind those minority irrational one.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:19 PM]
I mean compared to other insurance company NTUC is not the cheapest and affordable
G, [25/7/2024 1:19 PM]
😂 Rationalising selling out the country.. Somehow giving up more and more of the country's sovereignty is pleasing in your sight
at this rate, sg's sovereignty will only be defined by this: (borrowing Bilahari's description) having a seat at the UN, but unable to defend it's own national interests
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:20 PM]
But... NTUC is always seen as a national asset instead of a private entity
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:22 PM]
Yes this is what I mean.
Because NTUC income only have assess to a small domestic population and can attract assets domestically.
That is why, income don't have economies of scale.
Hence it cannot offer as cheap and competitive rates compared to global insurance companies.
Contrary to what many people here think.
If income merge with Allianz, competitive rates can be offered because of the global economies of scale.
It will benefits more Singaporeans conversely.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:22 PM]
And I think NTUC must have the majority of have a control so things don't go wrong. You can sell 48% to venture out of the country but not 51%
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:23 PM]
Must be able to see a bigger perspective.
不着外相。
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:26 PM]
The thing about singapore is that people have loads of money locked up in cpf medisave that can only be used for insurance. If the gov make insurance company unable to pull from medisave then see if they still wanna buy income
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:27 PM]
This is a commercial decision.
I will leave it to the Minister to provide the answer in Parliament why not 51% and take only 49%.
I can guess without 51%, Allianz cannot restructure and move things around.
I think is the best to leave it to the Minister to explain as I have no privy to the decision.
But I think our government must have examine all the pros and cons - and this is the best position for Singapore.
I always emphasize Singapore.
I am pro-Singapore.
Not pro-income.
Or pro-political party.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:28 PM]
Gov must rethink cpf and medisave. Does the current policies still serve in our best interest? Should insurance company profit from cpf?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:28 PM]
Using CPF buying any insurance plan is a scam
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:28 PM]
I am pro Singapore, not pro income.
Whatever the outcome is best for Singapore and Singaporeans, then the decision is the right decision.
Hence income to survive, will have to be competitive.
G, [25/7/2024 1:29 PM]
What's the bigger perspective? To have a positive perception that foreign entities owning national assets is not traitorous? That foreign entities owning national assets is not selling out the country? That foreign entities owning national assets is not eroding sovereignty?
G, [25/7/2024 1:31 PM]
You claim to be pro-Singapore, but continuously support views, opinions, and actions that erode Singapore's sovereignty
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:32 PM]
Previously, when government want to sell POSB to DBS, there are similar hue and cry.
POSB are touted as savings bank for the kids, for lower and middle income people.
Many Singaporeans raise similar nationalist sentiment.
However our government has foresight.
Now DBS has reached almost $1 trillion assets and revenue.
Same as OCBC, UOB who have merged many smaller banks.
3 of our local banks have regional footprints and are still growing.
G, [25/7/2024 1:33 PM]
How is selling POSB to DBS selling to foreign entities?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:33 PM]
I believe Income will go through similar journey and 10 years down the road as we look back, we will reassess what we do is visionary and insightful - that we have make the right decision or not.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:33 PM]
Nah i dont think so. Insurance is a different beast
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:35 PM]
Manulife insurance is $1 trillion company and still growing.
DBS leveraging on Manulife insurance plans have benefited significantly.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:35 PM]
Unlike banks, insurance is a bit of a lose-win relationship with customers. If you want them to grow and succeed, what does it mean for policyholders? Would they pay more premiums? Harder to claim? Insurance always have to take in more money then they give out
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:35 PM]
OCBC full acquisition of Great Eastern insurance - experience the same phenomenon.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:37 PM]
Bro, Manulife insurance is not health. Its more like investment and endowment
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:37 PM]
Insurance premiums is competitive because of Economies of scale.
The smaller the market, the higher the premium.
The bigger the global market, the lower the premium.
That's why global insurance companies can offer more competitive premium compare to income.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:37 PM]
If people cash out manulife the banks still profit. Can the same be said for income?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:38 PM]
Manulife also offer health.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:39 PM]
That's why income must go global.
Now income is cooperative, cannot go global.
Cannot source traditional funds.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:39 PM]
Is dbs leveraging manulife foe health insurance plans? I dont see it in dbs page
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:39 PM]
Income has reach its peak and cannot further grow or move.
Hence must coporatise and merge.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:39 PM]
Got plenty.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:40 PM]
Insurance have to segment its market. You think mnc insurance will make us pay us insurance rate if we only go local?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:40 PM]
Manulife Goal 2024 (II) | DBS Singapore
https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/insurance/endowment-with-protection/wealth-accumulation-plans/manulife-goal
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:40 PM]
Thats not health...
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:41 PM]
Manulife got health.
DBS not selling health insurance.
Only savings and wealth funds.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:41 PM]
At this point we can argue about dbs home insurance vs hdb
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:42 PM]
Health Insurance | Private Medical Insurance | Manulife Singapore
https://www.manulife.com.sg/en/solutions/health/health.html
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:43 PM]
Well I think income will grow and do better with Allianz.
This is my assessment.
Further information, it is best for the Minister to provide more information in the parliament.
But the strategic direction is not wrong from the Economic point of view and from Economic fundamental.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 1:49 PM]
I agree that income can go global but why must other countries gain majority?
G, [25/7/2024 1:49 PM]
You have been beating about the bush and cannot adequately explain how selling the majority of NTUC income is beneficial to Singapore and Singaporeans.
Instead, you try to bring in other off-topic things like CPF, some fear mongering about reserves depletion, POSB-DBS etc, and ignore the elephant in the room:
Selling a majority portion of national assets to foreign entities is great in your sight.. You even entertain thoughts of selling out the country "visionary"
Instead of questioning the leadership on how it has come to such a negative proposition for Singapore and its national asset, you fearmonger and ask if the reserves should prop up the national asset.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:49 PM]
Btw remember the good old days where house loan for private was cheap. Well it wont always be that way and now people go for hdb.
Perhaps income can grow with allianz, but i think people in sg have the expectation that Ntuc income is somewhat of a baseline due to ntuc close link to the government. It was originally made without a primary profit motive too.
Can we expect our interest to align if we sell to a foreign entity?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:49 PM]
Let us hear from the minister.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:50 PM]
Wait for the Minister to answer this.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:51 PM]
Btw, the insurance premiums offer by income is not the lowest.
Some global insurance companies health insurance premiums are lower than income.
Adam, [25/7/2024 1:51 PM]
If ntuc needs a bailout from reserve, do it sia style and crash shareholder value
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:51 PM]
*NS Man Insurance Coverage*
The NS man insurance coverage is provided by Singlife with Aviva ¹ ² ³. Here are some key points about the coverage:
- *Free Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident Insurance*: The Ministry of Defence (Mindef) and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) provide free Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident insurance cover to all full-time national servicemen (NSFs) and operationally ready national servicemen (NSmen) while they are on official duties ¹ ² ³.
- *Voluntary Scheme*: NSmen can continue their coverage even after they have completed their full-time National Service by purchasing additional Group Term Life and Group Personal Accident coverage under the Voluntary Scheme ¹ ² ³.
- *Coverage Amount*: The coverage amount can be extended up to $1 million for Group Term Life and up to $600,000 for Group Personal Accident ¹ ² ³.
- *Premiums*: The premiums for these policies are fixed, and NSmen can pay the same amount upon renewal every year until they're 65 for Group Term Life or 70 for Group Personal Accident ¹ ² ³.
- *Family Coverage*: Insured members' spouses and children can also be covered at the same rate ¹ ² ³.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:52 PM]
Aviva and singlife win the nsman insurance.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 1:53 PM]
That's why you are smarter than that guy.
If every company need to be bail out by our reserves, soon Singapore will go bankrupt - with blind nationalism.
G, [25/7/2024 1:54 PM]
What shareholder value does NTUC Income have? Is it floated on any stock exchange?
G, [25/7/2024 1:59 PM]
😂 still going off topic, fearmongering and spinning, even equating smartness with being able to see the positivity of selling out majority share of national assets to foreign entities.
Since you vehemently support selling out national assets to foreign entities (giving them majority share) why don't you defend your position on why this isn't traitorous to erode sovereignty without bringing in other things like CPF and fearmongering reserve depletion?
Why cop out and defer to minister?
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 2:00 PM]
📢 Topic 📢
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:00 PM]
What Is The Best Health Insurance Plan in Singapore?
HealthShield Gold MaxAIA (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/aia)Inpatient/Day surgery, outpatient treatmentPRUShieldPrudential (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/prudential)Pre and post hospitalisation, Inpatient/Day surgeryIncomeShieldIncome (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/ntuc-income)Outpatient treatment, organ transplantSupremeHealthGreat Eastern (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/great-eastern)Outpatient treatment, high claim limit per policy yearShieldAXA (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/axa)Cheapest premium, emergency overseas treatmentRaffles ShieldRaffles Health Insurance (https://www.moneysmart.sg/health-insurance/raffles-medical-group)High claim limit per policy year, pre and post hospitalisation
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:03 PM]
Unable to attach the comparison table insurance premiums for health insurance.
4 most competitive insurance premiums come from global insurance companies.
2 are from Singapore. Income and GE.
So doesn't mean global companies will offer more expensive premiums because of the economies of scale and its financial muscle.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:17 PM]
Another thing I want to dwell onto why good old days, private housing loans have cheap interest rate as compared to HDB housing loan of 2.6%.
1. Singapore monetary policy are not using interest rate to manage its monetary policy unlike many countries like USA and others.
2. The reason being, trade is 3 times the size of Singapore.
Hence exchange rate become our life hangar.
3. Our export need to be competitive and at the same time, we import many raw materials, semi finished goods for our manufacturing so that we can export competitively.
4. Hence we peg Singapore exchange rate to our supplier countries with a basket of currencies.
So that we can buy cheaply for imported goods and sell competitively to our export market.
5. We don't use interest rate to control our money supply.
6. But as we are a financial hub and needd to attract foreign capitals to put money into our banks and financial institutions, our interest rate will move in tandem to US Fed interest rate like HK.
7. Due to global inflation, Fed need to cut their money supply by hiking the interest rate through quantitative tightening.
So business and consumerd cannot borrow more loans and further fuel rising inflation.
8. Hence Singapore private bank interest rate to keep foreign money in our financial hub need to go up in tandem with Fed.
This is nothing to do with privatisation or nationalisation.
9. But our CPF didn't raise the oa interest rate in bad time or good times 2.6% - because our government maintain a long term average return to stabilise interest rate for housing.
This explains why interest rate in private are now higher compared to last time.
It is the global economic conditions, specifically global inflation that trigger this.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:26 PM]
Many people think that nationalisation of our domestic companies can bring lower prices.
This is not true according to market principles and economic fundamental.
Nationalisation is only good at the early development when companies are small and need national resources to grow it.
Once it reaches a certain size and reach saturation point, the next logical step is to corporatised it, merge it or acquisition - because it no longer can grow organically.
瓶颈。
Eg. Many China State companies grow phenomenonally initially.
But after a certain size, and when REACH saturation, it needs to corporatise and cannot be nationalised in order to grow overseas to seize the global market.
The World will not welcome a state companies to do business in their domestic market.
And state companies are usually inefficient because it depends on state funds to keep them alive.
State companies are not fully subject to market discipline and this lead to alot of wastage.
State companies if not operate efficiently will usually deplete the country reserves and deplete nation's precious funds.
China experience we all can see.
Hence income nationalisation can no longer sustain its growth.
The next logical step is corporatisatoon, merger and acquisition - that will make our economic pie bigger.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:30 PM]
Singapore has done a conversion from state companies from nationalisation in the 1990s to corporatisation - and Singapore economic growth and GDP has increase phenomenally ever since.
In my memories, SingTel, Starhub, NCS, ST Engineering, Keppel Corporation, POSB to DBS, SembCorp, PSA, SIA, Smrt, comfort delgro etc
So many that I can't list all of them.
Singapore sovereign funds and reserves as a result had grown phenomenally.
Adam, [25/7/2024 2:30 PM]
How did corporatization and efficiency fare with smrt? Is that how we want things to end up?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:31 PM]
Example?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:32 PM]
SMRT's train business generated a revenue of $813.2 million in the 2023 financial year. Its profits after tax nearly quadrupled to $42.5 million.1 Aug 2023
Adam, [25/7/2024 2:33 PM]
For effciency sake, sure there can be things to optimise, but what if efficiency is gained though cutting costs and making service quality worse?
Adam, [25/7/2024 2:34 PM]
Our hawker centers are more efficient than ever with as much cleaners as there is customers
G, [25/7/2024 2:35 PM]
Resulting in brain drain. e.g. SG govt lost a lot of its own core engineering / technical competencies and is now still playing catch up.
how do you put a monetary value for this? how is this "visionary"?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:36 PM]
Smrt at that time was run by a CEO who are marketing mind with little grounding in engineering.
It has now changed as at that time, many parts are due for overhaul and have not done so.
Thankfully, more engineering expertise have been poured into it, and now Smrt are running efficiently.
G, [25/7/2024 2:36 PM]
Ya. at what cost? massive breakdowns? loss in public confidence?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:36 PM]
Huh?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:38 PM]
The food court over here are packed with eating crowd.
Before I could even start my lunch, there are already people asking when am I finishing and let her have the seat.
G, [25/7/2024 2:39 PM]
Wasn't this after LTA did a massive overhaul of the public transport landscape?
why is it more efficient to have multiple "public transport" companies providing "public" transport services? did it lead to lower transport fares for everyone? why should a "public transport" company prioritise profits over providing affordable public transport fares?
why have to maintain multiple sets of overhead management costs?
G, [25/7/2024 2:41 PM]
You say this like it's a badge of honour. When instead, SMRT's role in sg is to provide affordable and good public transport
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:44 PM]
1. I am very grateful that Singapore has done well in making Singapore one of the highest income in the world.
Not everything cheap, cheap, cheap.
2. Singapore GDP PPP per capita $110,383 in 2022. Now should be higher.
3. Singapore household median income $10,869 per month.
4. Singapore government support grants in 2024 - about $10,000 more than cover our inflation 2.96%.
If everything want cheap - must as well migrate to Malaysia.
Food cheaper than Singapore.
But salary also very cheap.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:49 PM]
Full article: Nationalizations, bailouts and efficiency
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17487870.2019.1566065#abstract
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:51 PM]
Sometimes I wonder did our school and IHLs taught micro and macro economics to our students in Singapore?
The economic grounding of our people seems to be very weak.
And most discussion are layman and can't see the economic perspective.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:52 PM]
I noticed this situation not only in this REACH group but also other REACH group, focus groups and social media.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 2:56 PM]
Nope. Unless you go JC or you take finance related course in poly
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:56 PM]
No wonder.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 2:57 PM]
That's why I have no knowledge of economics
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 2:58 PM]
Or you take poa in secondary school
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 2:59 PM]
Hmm I see.
Otherwise today's topic is not a big hoo ha if people are trained in economics.
This are macroeconomics and people can appreciate why income are reaching its saturation point as a nationalisation company.
The next step is to corporatise, merge or go acquisition as a natural step.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:01 PM]
Singapore government and civil services very strong in macroeconomics and financial management.
That's why we do so well financially and economically.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 3:02 PM]
But they are not really training everyone with basic knowledge of economics
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:04 PM]
In fact many arguments about nationalisation, low price etc won't surface in a macroeconomics class - because once the economic graphs and charts are produced, the economic return, growth etc - already point to Law of Diminishing returns.
The natural conclusion is what income are doing today.
In fact, the arguments against it will fall flat in the economic class.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:06 PM]
From increasing return to Diminishing returns to negative returns.
If income still continues on its old path.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:08 PM]
I think those economic professors will be laughing at our arguments here coming from the lay person.
Call economic fundamental traitor some more.
Economic professors will give those who suggest a big fat "fail" if they submit their arguments as a economic thesis or dissertation.
Like 外行人教內行人。
Some more 义正言辞。
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 3:11 PM]
Poa is not compulsory in secondary school. And when they go higher institutions it is more specialised and some will not learn economics
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:12 PM]
In income situation, it has already reaches its maximum yield - and can no longer grow further if its underlying corporate structure don't change.
The only way is to go down and achieve a negative returns from increasing return and diminishing returns.
This is microeconomics.
Macroeconomics is to corporatise, merge and go acquisition.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:13 PM]
Hmm...
I feel government should consider more cross discipline for JC, poly and universities.
Adam, [25/7/2024 3:17 PM]
If it is the natural outcome for income to grow and get acquired, what happens to the concerns mentioned in the article that worries it would "undermine Income's social mission to maximize social impact over profits" should income still be marketed as a social enterprise?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:23 PM]
I understand where you're coming from.
Let the Minister address the social missions and social perspectives.
As for market principles and economic fundamental, income current move is financially and economically correct.
This is where I am coming from.
If financially and economically is not position right, income cannot fulfil its social missions.
Because it has now reach its saturation point.
Law of Diminishing returns sets in.
From increasing return, it has now reach diminishing returns.
If income still don't restructure, next we will be seeing income plunging downward into negative returns.
We won't be able to see lower premiums, we won't be able to see income becoming profitable.
We may soon see income going down under and close shop.
Then those who suggest income going on the old way - is in fact a big traitor - pulling every Singaporeans down with it.
This is what I mean.
Adam, [25/7/2024 3:24 PM]
Perhaps Reach needs to reopen chat after minister address then
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:26 PM]
Blind nationalism, blind loyalty, 执着，放不下 - may not necessary be a good thing.
We must possess the wisdom to be able to be insightful - and do the right thing economically and financially supportable.
Blind faith won't help.
Bull neck also won't help. 死牛一片颈 won't help.
Unhelpful label - traitor won't help.
Only pragmatism and wisdom will help.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 3:27 PM]
I agree.
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 4:00 PM]
📢 Topic 📢
Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [25/7/2024 4:05 PM]
Too many policies very confusing
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 4:33 PM]
Income will still provide affordable insurance for lower-income customers after Allianz deal: NTUC Enterprise chairman - CNA
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-majority-stake-bid-affordable-lower-income-4500661
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 4:34 PM]
Ay.
I can delete my chat here.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 4:35 PM]
Deleted
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:12 PM]
He reiterated that it would continue to take part in national insurance programmes in partnership with the CPF Board.
Bringing in a "global player with proven insurance and asset management capabilities" would help Income "compete more effectively", Mr Lim said.
Income Insurance’s life insurance market share has been less than 10 per cent in the past 10 years," he added.
"Allianz’s offer to be a majority shareholder will enable Income Insurance to be even more relevant and resilient over the long term, to serve families in Singapore, and fulfil its obligations to its policyholders.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:13 PM]
This new article summaries what I say here.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:17 PM]
Over the years, the Singapore labour movement has provided Income with capital for its business.
Mr Lim cited an injection of funds by NTUC Enterprise in 2020 to support the co-op's solvency at the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic, when its capital buffers came under pressure.
Insurance is a capital-intensive business and to grow, there is a need to tap the capital markets," said Mr Lim.
"The strength of Allianz’s financial position will provide additional support to Income Insurance where required."
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:24 PM]
See income has reached a saturation point.
Can no longer have easy access to financial market to source liquidity.
Hence its growth will be retarded - as Law of Diminishing returns sets in.
If corporatisation don't take place, if additional source of funds and liquidity don't come in, income will lose its market share in the insurance space and being crowded out from the insurance industry.
To stay in business, income will have to price at a lower price, eating into profitability and if turn into loss - will go under.
Then how to achieve its social missions?
Blind nationalism don't helps.
Because it is all about economics.
Don't even have to look at the news article - anyone with some economic knowledge can already predict the outcome.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:27 PM]
If income go under without restructuring, then everyone's insurance policies will be gone.
冬过水。
Then who will be the traitor?
Income, the government or those who self declare as blind nationalist Smart Alec?
G, [25/7/2024 5:36 PM]
I see.. so in your eyes, what's above everything else in a country's health is only economic. Not sovereignty. Not the ability to defend itself and its interests.
Running a country is so much more than just economics. There are many many more intangibles that your academic macro micro economics will never be able to quantify but will have long last adverse impacts on the country when wrong decisions are made.
So for you, as long as it makes "economic sense" anything is justifiable, including selling out your own country 👍
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:37 PM]
Oh you can fly the flag as nationalist.
Beat your chest and shout or-yee-or.
I will cheer for you.
But when you turn around, no one behind you.
G, [25/7/2024 5:38 PM]
Ok sellout
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:40 PM]
That's why I don't have to convince you.
I only need to convince the majority.
Because 愚人不可度。
只度有缘人。
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:41 PM]
Hey yo don't personal attack
G, [25/7/2024 5:42 PM]
😂 means u are admitting that your position of selling out the country is an unfavourable one.
Have fun trying to convince people they should go ahead and support selling out the country because you have superior academics in economics
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:43 PM]
Anyway we got 100+ peeps here but so far for this few topics not many people participate
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:43 PM]
Weird...
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:44 PM]
It's always LCL dominates the chat haha 😆
G, [25/7/2024 5:44 PM]
Still doesn't justify why Allianz gets a 51% share in the deal
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:44 PM]
Good, that means people are not convince this is a sell out, a traitorous act.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:45 PM]
Oh I prefer more sensible people doing the talking so that I can shake legs more.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:45 PM]
What I am concerned is are they actually proficient in using telegram
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:46 PM]
Same as WhatsApp.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:46 PM]
Whatsapp have way more people talking
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:46 PM]
In my previous WhatsApp Chat group, there are more sensible people talking, I argue less and agrees more.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:46 PM]
Which it's more interesting to hear different views
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:47 PM]
And photos is allowed in group chat. It's just more interesting
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:48 PM]
I feel this is better.
But here I see very radical and wrong views propagated.
Since no one coming out to correct the wrong views, I have to do the dirty job.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:49 PM]
To me there's no such thing as wrong views. They are just natural views comes from different levels of society. This is to give govt a sensing how different levels of society thinks
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:51 PM]
Hmm..
Maybe.
But if the views are pushing Singapore into a wrong way that is detrimental to us (means all Singaporeans) - I will have to put my views across.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:52 PM]
How do you determine that it is in the wrong way?
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:52 PM]
Well all my arguments here justified if to do otherwise, income will be less and less well off.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:52 PM]
The gov have their own ideas and we are just discussing and giving them new ideas and how frustrated we are towards certain policies
G, [25/7/2024 5:53 PM]
Yes this group is just LCL monologuing 90% of the time and presenting only 1 view which is 99% of the time incredibly favourable of this PAP govt.
If REACH does some low level data mining from this group, it may appear that this group is overly supportive of whatever the PAP govt is doing.
Other times, LCL provides lectures on topics that no one asks for.
A far cry from my previous WhatsApp group that has many people with very diverse views.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:53 PM]
/stat@combot
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:53 PM]
Maybe.
Let the government present their views.
But what I say here without looking at the news article - coincide.
NTUC income views are identical to mine.
Combot, [25/7/2024 5:53 PM]
Total messages:617
G, [25/7/2024 5:54 PM]
How elitist to think only your view is the correct one and anything contrary is wrong, and that it is your place to need to "correct" the contrary views
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:55 PM]
Is this malware or something we can click on?
Don't want APK files download into our device with malware.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:55 PM]
Just type/ stat
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:55 PM]
You will get this message
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:56 PM]
Hahaha.
I not eager to try in case kenna malware.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:56 PM]
Unfortunately this is just a private group that there's no data for viewing
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:57 PM]
But this shows the total messages over a few days
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:57 PM]
I just checked my apk files - nothing there.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:57 PM]
Whose messages are there?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:58 PM]
Which is kind of less as on average 1 people send less than 6 messages per person
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:58 PM]
Whoever chat here
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:58 PM]
You mean this chat group?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:58 PM]
Yup
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 5:58 PM]
Oh I see.
So I guess I champion?
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:59 PM]
Idk they don't show who chat the most as this is a private group
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 5:59 PM]
I think so
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:01 PM]
Hahaha.
Like what I say, I miss some of my members in my previous chat group who contributed quite alot in the topics of the day.
Not all our views are identical, but we can agree to disagree.
Also they are less radical, more sensible and more rational.
Also they can appreciate good reasonings and argument.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:02 PM]
Of course I am not always the champion there.
Because when I see good discussion come out, I argue less and shake legs more.
I don't enjoy being a champion by the way.
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 6:05 PM]
📢 Topic 📢
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:24 PM]
Normally I think the government won't do something to rock the boat if nothing go wrong.
But quite evidently, for income case, the trajectory is that something will definitely go wrong if nothing is done.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:32 PM]
And I do have long term policies with NTUC income - and I don't want it to go wrong.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:42 PM]
I only have medishield if anything goes wrong might as well change to another company
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:43 PM]
Unless you buy some endowment related policies
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:44 PM]
Well what I am doing here is to protect my interest and all Singaporeans interest.
Else I won't argue until like that.
I enjoy shaking legs, looking at people discussion, state my viewpoints.
Involve in less argument - I will enjoy more.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:44 PM]
Yes I got.
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 6:45 PM]
Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:45 PM]
Many of my relatives and friends also got.
I also represent their views in my private chat groups.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:48 PM]
In fact I did raise some of my viewpoints here to my insurance agents.
People can sense something is wrong and need to do something.
I was in fact quite relieved when I saw the email send to me by income - that they want to merge with Allianz.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:49 PM]
I represent that people will not affect much by the transition. I just feel that as a national enterprise that transit to an overseas owner it is quite sad. As ntuc is like a local brand, home grown. The feeling as a home brand will fade after transition
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:50 PM]
I know the sentiment.
Initially I feel the same.
But after I look into it in detail, I changed my mind.
Because the data and the numbers don't lie.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:51 PM]
The first reaction is like can meh I thought NTUC is a significant political person that was discussed few days ago.
2nd reaction is what I commented above
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:52 PM]
Oh I look at the PSP very carefully.
It only apply to NTUC union and not income.
That's why I know PSP don't apply to income.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:53 PM]
Because not many people can differentiate different ntuc
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:53 PM]
From the supermarket to insurance and workforce etc
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:54 PM]
They see NTUC as 1 company 1 organisation
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:55 PM]
But like what I say, I am as nationalist and as sentiment as you in our national brand.
I am equally proud.
But I am also a pragmatic.
When I look at the numbers - I know income are in danger.
That means policyholders are in danger.
Then no choice, I got to stand up, do the dirty job and argue to support it.
I know people will throw shit at me.
I am prepared for it.
But I won't flinch, if it is the right thing to do.
Like what I say, I am pro-Singapore.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:58 PM]
Then my 3rd reaction why go fully to let other people take over. What is the terms and conditions behind that it must let foreign entity take over. As they say it is a partnership? How would they be in control to safeguard the interest of policy owners. What check and balance to safeguard policies.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:58 PM]
Too short a time to answer.
Let minister do the job to answer in parliament.
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:59 PM]
Yeah but this is the question we should ask here so gov knows what questions we have
Jun Ming, [25/7/2024 6:59 PM]
I pretty sure you would also have questions to ask too right
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 6:59 PM]
I think closing already though I will like to answer.
LCL (Danny 心), [25/7/2024 7:00 PM]
Let minister answer.
REACH Singapore, [25/7/2024 7:02 PM]
Dear Contributors
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
======
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