REACH (Telegram) 1 - What are your thoughts on the lapses identified by the Auditor-General's Office? Do you believe the corrective measures being implemented by the agencies will help to maintain trust in public agencies?

(SK)

17 Jul 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 3:17 PM]

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REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 3:21 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

The audit for the financial year 2023/24 covered government financial statements incorporating the accounts of all 16 ministries and eight organs of state. AGO also audited three government funds, eight statutory boards, four government-owned companies and two other accounts.The report identified areas of improvement for procurement, contract management, and inventory management across various government entities, including the Ministry of Education (MOE), the National Parks Board (NParks), the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA), and Nanyang Polytechnic (NYP). 

Key observations included overpayments to contractors by MOE and NParks, weaknesses in inventory and records management at MHA, and delays in billing and debt recovery at NYP. 

💬 What are your thoughts on the lapses identified by the Auditor-General's Office? Do you believe the corrective measures being implemented by the agencies will help to maintain trust in public agencies?

The Ministry of Finance emphasized the importance of these audits for maintaining public trust and accountability, and the implicated agencies have begun implementing corrective measures.

📌 Review and rectification of the lapses identified

MOE and NParks took immediate steps to rectify the overpayment by recovering the overpayments, and review ongoing projects for similar lapses.

📌 Parenthood Support Measures

AGO’s thematic audit on parenthood support measures covered MSF’s government-paid leave schemes (GPLS) and Baby Bonus Scheme – Child Development Account (CDA) benefits. It also looked at ECDA’s infant care and childcare subsidies, kindergarten fee assistance scheme (KiFAS), as well as anchor operator scheme and partner operator scheme.

AGO said it found that in general, MSF and ECDA had put in place processes and controls across the various grant stages to ensure proper management of the schemes.

Areas where improvements could be made were also identified. "Both agencies could improve the controls and monitoring of claims to detect ineligible claims and potential irregularities," said the report. "AGO found lapses in grant evaluation which occurred due to system errors, inadequate system checks or system checks not working as intended.

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ago-audit-report-overpayments-moe-nparks-lapses-4485106

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 3:26 PM]

What time does this chat close

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 3:26 PM]

Busy now

CL Kon, [17/7/2024 3:26 PM]

👋

Angelyn, [17/7/2024 3:52 PM]

9pm close

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 3:56 PM]

1. Running Ministries is like running an organisation.

2. The approval process to conform with organisation regulations, rules and guidelines will be similar to running an organisations.

3. Internal audits will need to be conducted periodically to ensure governance process are adhere to.

4. Annual external audit to ensure compliance also need to be conducted.

5. Thereafter audit report will need to be produced to highlight compliance, non-compliance, any loopholes to plug.

6. AGO role is similar to external audit roles, while individual Ministries will have their internal audits.

7. Hence, I am confident that the lapses pick up by AGO and corrective measures implemented in a transparent manner can help to maintain trust in public agencies - just like any organisation publicly listed in the stock exchange or any private companies.

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 4:02 PM]

Within each government entities there's no auditor to check ? Why would there be problems?

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:03 PM]

1. There are so many processes to follow in an organisation, ISO standards to comply with, many forms to fill.

2. Hence bound to have some slippage, or overlook - because Instruction Manual is like an encyclopaedia.

3. I will be awe if anyone can memorise all the instructions in the Instructions Manual by heart - and never make a mistake.

4. Though it is not an excuse to make a mistake, due diligence will need to be practised.

5. But despite with great due diligence and yet some mistakes are make, corrective actions must be taken to rectify the mistakes.

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 4:04 PM]

Understandable... Pretty sure there would have an internal Audit before AGO checks

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:05 PM]

6. Thousands of documents and process are churn out every month, is it plausible for a team of say 5 internal auditors to check every document?

Then audit department is a big bottleneck.

7. Does private organisations use internal auditors to check every document before approval?

G, [17/7/2024 4:05 PM]

Shouldn't AGO audits be no-notice? Else how to know the real state of the organisation if they can plan and prepare before hand?

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:06 PM]

8. Does private organisations internal auditors approve every documents and approval process?

I don't think so.

Organisation will be crippled.

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 4:15 PM]

It's a good thing that AGO checks the finance of government. Keeping things transparent.

G, [17/7/2024 4:23 PM]

How are the ministers held accountable for the lapses found in their respective ministries? How much will their bonuses be cut?

G, [17/7/2024 4:25 PM]

Transparency is great, but needs to lead to the next step: Accountability

🦒, [17/7/2024 4:25 PM]

it's good,

Jessi G, [17/7/2024 4:30 PM]

Does the organization has a internal check before making payment? What happen to the internal audit check? Is there a quotation issue?

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:46 PM]

Civil servants are running and managing the organisation not the Ministers.

Ministers are political appointees that provide political inputs to policy formulation.

They are not involves in day to day running of the Ministries.

Also some Ministers hold a few portfolios - cannot be bog down by the administration of a Ministries like signing and approving payments.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:49 PM]

Internal checking and approving process are through the respective head of department and up the approval ladder depending on the amounts.

Internal audits only do selective audits base on suspicious transactions or big projects.

G, [17/7/2024 4:50 PM]

Agree, ministers don't run the day-to-day operations of the organisation, but they are responsible for it. It is based on this responsibility that they have to be held accountable. 

Too bad if the ministers hold multiple portfolios and have more responsibility, they agreed to it, and are handsomely rewarded with their high salaries

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:51 PM]

Eventually minister will still be questioned in Parliament if there are lapses.

Minister will then have to hold the respective civil services accountable for the lapse.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:54 PM]

In an organisation, CEO run the organisation, chairman set strategic directions.

Chairman is like Minister.

CEO is like the perm sec.

So if there are audit lapse - CEO got to answer, not the chairman.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 4:56 PM]

But if an organisation strategic directions is wrong, then both chairman and CEO got to be accountable.

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 5:02 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 5:19 PM]

Wonder did anyone come across any organisation - be it public organisations, private organisations even small SMEs - with zero non compliance in an annual audited reports?

So far I never come across in my life.

If it does have, most likely this auditor - whether internal or external auditors will be haul up for investigation for likely:- not doing its job or covert agreement.

Because there will definitely be some minor non-compliance somewhere in an organisation - no matter how keelat an organisation are run.

Caleb, [17/7/2024 5:37 PM]

👍

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 6:32 PM]

📢 Accounts of dead ActiveSG members used to enter pools and gyms: AGO report

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/activesg-users-dead-people-accounts-enter-pools-gyms-ago-report-4485066

Jun Ming, [17/7/2024 6:45 PM]

Maybe a system for refund to the family members

G, [17/7/2024 6:52 PM]

Is this comment meant to find some excuse to absolve responsibility to those that should be held accountable for the lapses?

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 7:00 PM]

📢 *Topic* 📢

Daniel Tay, [17/7/2024 7:03 PM]

Thanks 🙏

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 7:04 PM]

It is not.

But to put the whole thing in perspective.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 7:09 PM]

That's for those who need to answer and put things right, then need to put things right.

Appraisal will reflect this.

Also ensure not to witch hunt - when appropriate actions are taken.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 7:37 PM]

Eg.

In the performance scorecard, there will be many evaluation criteria.

One evaluation criteria is "Conformance to procedure".

Those in the hierarchy that have audit lapse - won't do well in this criteria - probably fail it.

But some may do well in other criteria.

When all the performance criteria are aggregated - it will determine how well the staff do - performance grading is accorded objectively and the bonus will reflect this.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 7:39 PM]

So this is making the system accountable objectively and not falling into the trap of witch hunt.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:15 PM]

May I suggest, that audit be done real time instead of finding if faults exist( 放后泡)after all had happened. This mode of doing things had to changed for the betterment of our future.

Human audits can only identify pockets of 'crack' but many could have slipped through the 'cracks' undetected and it could be detected later with substantial loss of monies which can be better use by our future generations.

The use of AI software to track and countercheck on allotment and use of AI will help to address the issue of the above shortcoming.

I hope this suggestion can be implemented instead of putting it up again next year(this topic was raised before 1 to 2 years ago)

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:40 PM]

AI is one possible routes to catch non-compliance.

But not a silver magic bullet.

Because:-

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:41 PM]

Ay, cannot attach screenshot.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:42 PM]

Attach it from your gallery after screenshot

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:43 PM]

Research show, AI tools are not off the shelf package.

Need AI R&D expertise to work to customise each project and approval process.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:44 PM]

Also cannot, because this function is disabled.

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 8:45 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:45 PM]

That's need to employ AI expert to be able to code python, machine language, NLP etc.

And work with project team to tie AI to audit process.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:46 PM]

Now AI expert in shortage.

Every organisation grab.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:46 PM]

For millions of dollars that could slip through the 'crack', it is worthwhile to develop it in-house or outsource. Once it is developed it can adopt the 'cloth hangar' onto other ministries. At the same time, keep our overflow of AI graduates employed.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:47 PM]

Now critical organisations cannot even get sufficient AI graduates.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:49 PM]

It is not now, soon we will be overflowing with AI graduates, same as during the 90's. The push for AI is on.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:50 PM]

AI pay for fresh graduates is already so high, yet cannot recruit.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:50 PM]

In the 90's there were push on ICT graduates, the same thing will repeat now on AI

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:52 PM]

AI need to train for 4 years - not press a button, AI graduates will be produced.

Also barrier to entry for AI very high.

Not all computer science graduates can take AI.

Need very strong foundation in math, engineering and science.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:52 PM]

The after all these years of training ICT, we end up having to import foreign talents to fill the gap while those trained back in the 90's had changed job, some become insurance or property agents. I can see , it will happen again.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:54 PM]

AI entry grade graduates easily $4,600.

After 3 years, more than $6,000.

But many cannot make the grade to study AI.

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:55 PM]

Did anyone ever question how our polytechnic, university lecturers can learn so fast to teach AI?

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:55 PM]

What type of AI?

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:56 PM]

Data science, data analytics, generative AI etc

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:56 PM]

This 3 are the easiest of AI.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:57 PM]

I am talking about deep learning, LLM, reinforcement learning, NLP, machine learning, computer visions, etc

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 8:59 PM]

Part of AI.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:59 PM]

GAI no need to take course 

Play with it can already.

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 8:59 PM]

Data science are statistics

Derek Thong, [17/7/2024 9:00 PM]

Much deeper

LCL (Danny 心), [17/7/2024 9:00 PM]

The word AI is misused

REACH Singapore, [17/7/2024 9:01 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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