REACH 516 - What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment?
(SK)
04 Dec 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
4/12/23, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
Welcome back! π
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Thank you
Megan π
4/12/23, 9:58 am - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
HDB dwellers will soon be allowed to keep up to 2 cats, with a proposal to lift a ban of more than 30 years on cat ownership in public flats in the works.
Senior Minister of State for National Development Tan Kian How said that the limit of two cats per household takes into consideration views of cat owners and non-cat owners, and aims to maintain a harmonious living environment for all.
π¬ *What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment?*
Pet cats will need to be microchipped and licensed, among a slew of measures proposed to improve the management and welfare of pet and community cats.
π _*Licensing conditions*_
Pet cats will need to be microchipped for a licence to ensure that they are traceable and cat owners can be held to greater account if their cats are found to be abandoned, neglected or abused.
Cat owners will need to ensure the animals are kept under control in public, such as by using a harness, and first-time cat owners are required to complete an online course on responsible pet ownership.
A transition period of two years will be given to allow cat owners time to meet licensing conditions. During this period, cat owners can get their licences for free.
π _*Sterilisation of pet cats*_
Sterilisation of pet cats has health and behavioural benefits, as it reduces the risk of some cancers, and sterilised cats are less prone to roaming and caterwauling.
To encourage the sterilisation of pet cats, licensed owners who have not sterilised their animals will be required to renew their licence regularly and at a higher fee.
Pet cats belonging to low-income households can also get free sterilisation and microchipping from 2024.
π _*Extension of the Trap-Neuter-Rehome/Release-Manage programme to community cats*_
“This will allow us to better manage our community cat population holistically and in a humane and science-based manner, as we have done for our free-roaming dogs,” said Mr Tan.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/hdb-residents-could-soon-own-up-to-2-cats-per-flat-from-late-2024
Contributors may also provide feedback on the proposed framework at https://go.gov.sg/cat-framework from now till 1 February 2024.
4/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
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4/12/23, 10:07 am - +Ben: Good to see Cats will be allowed! If they are sterilised they won't make any noise. In fact way quieter and cleaner than dogs (I like dogs too btw). <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 10:16 am - +Frankie Wee: Home HDB must have equipment with pet for cat different from dog
4/12/23, 10:41 am - +Timothy Low: Glad to know that cats will be allowed in HDB soon. Fully support the motion.
4/12/23, 12:03 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
π¬ *What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment?*
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan π
4/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Caleb: good, as some already have cats liao
4/12/23, 12:17 pm - +Rama: Raining cats and dogs soonπ³π€¦♂️π
4/12/23, 12:26 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: It’s good for cat lovers and pets make good company for the lonely elderly.
But there should also be some legislation / insurance to protect the neighbours who are victims of the mess the pets may cause. Eg cat go inside neighbour’s house, scratch up their leather sofa! <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 12:28 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Another area of concern is if neighbour is allergic to cat’s fur. If so, then cat should not be allowed. Human health should take precedence as it is not an issue now.
Unlike 2nd hand smoke in hdb, it was allowed before, now impossible to legislate. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 12:45 pm - +Ben: Are these points any different to dog ownership? Maybe just have the same rules for cat and dog.
4/12/23, 12:46 pm - +Ben: Neighbours are not likely to be allergic to a cat living in a different house, by the way.
4/12/23, 12:52 pm - +Redzuan: Before this cats is illegal and But dogs legal in HDB?
4/12/23, 1:21 pm - +Noraini: Yes cat illegal, dog.legal
4/12/23, 1:30 pm - +Redzuan: π€
4/12/23, 1:30 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily
4/12/23, 1:32 pm - +Rama: There can be issues among a malay neighbour with cats and a non Muslim with dogs in the common corridor on each floor or in the lift.
4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I *hate* cats, esp _Black_ ones! I hv bn spooked more than 10x by these disgusting felines!
Allowing home owners to keep just one, is bad enuff.
Now, why must u allow them to keep more than 1?
The cat owners whose pets spooked me r *irresponsible*, *inconsiderate* and *they allow their cats to roam freely ard the neighbourhood* !!
When confronted, their excuses were tt cats, unlike dogs, cannot be leashed π€¦πΌ♀️
& shd be allowed their freedom. Even in the middle of the night, past midnight??!! π±
The owners themselves are undisciplined people!, and hv little regard for their neighbour's privacy!
_*This new ruling is freaking RIDICULOUS!!*_
The cats whine in the wee hours of the nite, scratch my window pane to get in, pee in my neighbour's potted plants soil (my neighbour has since moved). ...
And all other ungodly things tt cats do naturally ... (too many to mention).
I dun hv the $$ nor the energy to move or find a new flat to move to.
I also won't know if my new neighbour(s) keep cats.
_*If the gov wants to implement this rule, then pls also look into a penalty measure to balance things out*_.
For example, if my stupid neighbour's cat scratches my window pane & damages it, can I claim agst the stupid animal's owner to pay to replace my pane?
If the stupid animal pees & poos on my outdoor mat, can I make the inconsiderate owner pay for a new one or better yet, the owner has to wash my mat !!
On top of that, can the owner be fined for being IRRESPONSIBLE!!??
π‘π‘π‘π‘π‘ <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Rama: π³π€¦♂️π
4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Ah Heng: pets are innocent
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rose M K Ho: This message was deleted
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is the owners who keep them to be blame
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is like kid
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rama: Not the owners!
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I dun care!
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: ppl who always complain about kid jumping and running .. is not the kids fault cos they are meant to jump and be monster
4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is the parents that must learnt how to discipline them
4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Ah Heng: but on the other hand people who do not have kids will never understand
4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Ah Heng: but NEVER COMAPRE A KID TO A PET !
4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I wud turn to the stupid irresponsible parents & glare at them.
If their kids dun stop, I wud then shout at them.
π
4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Correct!
4/12/23, 1:43 pm - +Rama: I do
4/12/23, 1:43 pm - +Ah Heng: on pets it can be a cat / dog / bird/ hamster / lizards or even fishes
4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: as long as that freaking humans do not know how to managed it will cause issues in the living area
4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: unless this idiot is staying on a little island by himself
4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: but why are we evening taking this as a national topic hahahaha
4/12/23, 1:45 pm - +Ah Heng: when there are other pressing issues globally like the white lungs issue in eu / us and china
4/12/23, 1:45 pm - +Ah Heng: what is the govt plans, dun come tell us ooo we are monitoring the situation
4/12/23, 1:47 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Wl the ministry conduct a house to house search when ther is a complaint agst an animal in the area such as when I complain tt a stupid mysterious animal has poo'ed on my outdoor mat in the middle of the night while I was sleeping?
Better yet, the stupid black cat enters yr house --- after u hv just mopped it & left the door open for the air to dry the floor --- and the stupid cat walks all over your floor, leaving its paw prints behind ... as the flr is not dry yet ?
And u hv to mop again?!!!
π‘π‘π‘
4/12/23, 1:47 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Wat is the ministry gg to do abt such situations?
4/12/23, 1:48 pm - +Rose M K Ho: And peeing in pots of soil ... the stench ...
How wl the gov solve that prob?
4/12/23, 1:48 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I can go on & on & on ....
π€ .... that is how much I hate these damn animals!! They r a nuisance to society !
4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Ah Heng: wait coudl it be in singapore pets are more dumb ? cos if one look at the social media other countries like US / CHINA / Thailand these animals seems pretty smart and to certain extend humans like hahahaha
4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Ah Heng: not as do do as our local cats dogs birds or even squirrels
4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Rose M K Ho: *Whoever proposed this stupid ruling is either pet owner or just plain stupid & inconsiderate!!* --- nvr think abt ppl like me & those who r afraid of animals / pets. . ... .π³
4/12/23, 1:54 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Because *an idiot propose such inconsiderate ruling !*
Please keep it at just *one* pet !
If the owner wants more, then they can apply for permission --- to be granted on a case by case basis.
Otherwise, Gov, pls expect to be busy to go fr house to house to investigate which stupid cat damaged my potted plant & peed all over it & my outdoor mat !!! <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 1:54 pm - +Ben: Worse are the endless pianos and drum kits... so annoying to hear piano practice at 7am... or home concerts through the afternoon when trying to work. Neighbours can be very inconsiderate indeed.
4/12/23, 1:55 pm - +Ah Heng: seems we are a society that have little considerations for others
4/12/23, 1:55 pm - +Ah Heng: excellent
4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: years of nation building and the outcome .. is intolerant of neighbours
4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: i think the housing rules better change
4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: pull down all HDB and built silos instead
4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Smiley face: "When stupid things worked, that isn't stupid. When things don't work out, that isn't stupid too!"
- - anonymity
4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: each with 500meters radius so residents of singapore can live in peace
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: paino also cannot
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: children running around in own home cannot
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: pets also cannot
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: funeral also cannot
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ben: Listening to mobile phone on the train... there are many examples of people not considering others.
4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: custom practises also cannot
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: now see even mobile phone on train also cannot
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: what else come
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: show how ugly we are
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ben: Some things are easy, why not have an electric piano with headphones
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: come come
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Can u imagine coming hm ard 2am (cos we work night shift @ airport) , gg down the stairs to yr flat (no direct lift) & coming face to face w green eyes & blk body coming up the stairs in the opposite direction ??? !!!
π¨
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahahahaha
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: rose u funny lah
4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ben: Lol
4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: maybe shoudl be like dogs only certain breed is allow
4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: then maybe you will be scare so much
4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: some cats breed are really funny
4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ya, u can laugh π LOL.
But at tt time, I think the stupid cat was just as spooked by me !!! π
Haha!!!
4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +Ah Heng: next time carry a cucumber
4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +Ah Heng: for some reason silly cats are scare of that green vege
4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Oh! Thanks for the tip!
ππ»
I nvr heard of tt.
4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: they scare u , u scare them back
4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: throw the thing at them hahahahaha
4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: u go search in you tube hahahaha
4/12/23, 2:03 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Microchipping etc doesn't solve the problems I just highlighted.
Perhaps make it mandatory tt the owners attend a "discipline" course on how to ensure their pets do Not become a public nuisance.
Plus put in plenary measures for ppl like me to seek damage claims in event of damages to our properties.
4/12/23, 2:03 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I will, tks!
4/12/23, 2:04 pm - +Uncle Law: support the proposal. more can be done, for example registration of the cats under the household. similar system for the dogs.
4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: DEN ALL PETS BETTER MICRO CHIP
4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: INCLUDING BIRDS
4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: opps sorry for the caps
4/12/23, 2:10 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Like I said, Gov very gd in doing _Documentation_ .
But tt Does Not Help the situation when problems arise, like I've posted.
Like Heng says,
Humans (ie. the pet owners) r to blame .
They shd be sent for proper Education on how to be Good, Well-behaved, Considerate, pet owners _to their Neighbours_ . .. ..
Unless u also wanna micro chip the pet owner . . ... π€
Then we can catch them & punish them for their undisciplined pet's behaviour .... ??!!!
π³
4/12/23, 2:11 pm - +Uncle Law: similar as what u mentioned akin to cyclist on the road
4/12/23, 2:12 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. I noticed that prior to allow cat ownership at home, cats in the community are ferral cats that roam around in the community.
2. Ferral cats roam around the void decks, streets, drains, coffeeshops, hawker centre - to source for food.
3. I noticed that some good hearted residents will put bowls of water, cooked food and some even buy cat food to feed the ferral cats in the community.
4. Also notice that residents such as adults, children will go around to pet the ferral cats and play with the cats - especially those cats get acclimatise with interacting with humans.
5. Of course, there are some ferral cats who are fearful of humans - and will bolt away the moment humans go near.
6. Read from news that sometimes, ferral cats are abused by some people.
And some ferral cats are hunt down by stray dogs.
7. Hence, there are push by cat lovers to be able to adopt cats to be the family cats at home just like dogs.
8. I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with this - by reversing the cat ownership ban as long as conditions to cat ownership mirror those of dog ownership.
9. This is what Inclusiveness policy should embrace.
4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: what is funny is this cat thing is a national issue hahahaha
4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: funny
4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: next what mouse ?
4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Just allow *one* pet, is fine.
Anything more, ask for approval.
No need to go overboard, just to please the minority.
Anyway, it's not like the Gov is tt strict when it comes to giving approval for more than one animal.
Or if they wan, set a quota on animals per estate or something like tt. If still within quota, can approve. If exceed, then cannot. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: yeah some house is like a zoo
4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: dog
4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: mouse
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: birds
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: fish
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: stingrays
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: den others is not one dog but a couple
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: and is those super big breed
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: like husky
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: or chow chow
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: i pity the dogs .. so big and little space and weather so bloody hot in sg
4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: birds also not one
4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: is many pairs
4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahha
4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: see who created all these problems again is the public
4/12/23, 2:21 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Exactly!
The particular 'cat on the stairs' tt I mentioned ... belonged to a house where the owner also kept birds (>1), rabbits (>1), hamsters (>1), fishes, dogs (>1), and >1 cat.
It was a Zoo (menagerie).
And at tt time, a young baby was also in the house! <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 2:22 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Btw, tt cat is no longer ard.
I heard fr my ex-nbr tt someone had got rid of it ... ππ» to tt someone for having the courage to do it ....
4/12/23, 2:23 pm - +Rama: Hdb or town council will make the visit.
4/12/23, 2:30 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Good to know but I'm not sure if all TC's r tt active in following up on such matters.
4/12/23, 2:36 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Adopting cats like dogs - is a lifelong commitment - because cats like dogs are living animals.
2. They are like toddlers that are unable to take care of themselves - such as making food, drinks, toileting etc - and will need humans to make foods, drinks, toilet training etc.
3. Adopting cats, like adopting dogs - will be the same as treating them like one of the family members - as they need love, care and training to be able to interact harmoniously with cat owners and the community.
A cat's lifespan is about 10 to 14 years like dogs.
Hence, cat adopters must be able to take care of cats from cradle to grave including bringing them to see the vets if they are sick.
4. Hence, government formulating guidelines for cat ownership become imperative.
5. I agree with the government various approach to license cat ownership namely:-
a. License each cat
b. Microchip each cat to track and trace - to ensure each cat welfare are taken care off - and not abandon, neglect or abused.
c. Ensure sterilisation - to keep cat population in control.
d. Cats are kept under control in public such as using harness in leash - instead of allowing it to roam around freely in public and get lost or enter into other people's house and rummage causing havoc.
4/12/23, 2:37 pm - +Rose M K Ho: _Stick to *just ONE* cat will do_ !
4/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahahahhaa
4/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: rose dam funny but it make sense how many catsssss or dogssssss or birdssssss or mousessssssssss one needs !!!!
4/12/23, 2:57 pm - +Jimmy Chew: They should keep silent so that they can exercise the law when needed to flat dwellers who allow their two cats run free and refuses to control them or be civic minded. Knowing Singaporeans we will seek to break the laws. now they discreetly keep one cat and make sure they don't disturb neighbors so that no one complaints
4/12/23, 3:00 pm - +Redzuan: Maybe there are other concerns. Besides, okays n not okays to pets.
4/12/23, 3:03 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: <Media omitted>
4/12/23, 3:03 pm - +Vivian: maybe it's not from pets hahaha it is from their owner. (kidding)
4/12/23, 3:04 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: This one also kernah! Mental problem. Giant pile. Too much for dog. Must be human. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Pets are good for old folks
4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Vivian: ya very big pile... i can smell it from here... hahaha
4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: This message was deleted
4/12/23, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: If the are willing to take care
4/12/23, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We have 2 cat whisperers in our estate. They know our neighborhood cats by name and feeds them <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 3:07 pm - +Vivian: just be kind to animals...
4/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Agree. We are
4/12/23, 3:09 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Their husbands don't allow them to have cats π€£
4/12/23, 3:38 pm - +Rama: π€·♂️
4/12/23, 3:38 pm - +Rama: Agree
4/12/23, 3:39 pm - +Rama: We need caesar Milan!
4/12/23, 3:42 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Budget 2024
(04 Dec 2023)
*Income ceiling of BTO flats*
1. I will like to highlight to the Government that there is a need to relook at a group of Singaporeans come Budget 2024 that have been overlooked in the past in midst of high inflation.
2. Understand that not all Singaporeans can apply to buy BTO flats - as income ceilings are imposed (currently at $14,000 income will forbid couples to apply for a BTO flat) - but instead will be forced to buy private condos or land property.
3. But note that the income ceiling criteria is to look at one year earning - and determine that they won't qualify to apply for a BTO flat - and will require to buy private property for marriage.
4. But increasingly, tech disruptors such as AI that disrupt jobs and business - are happening more frequently - and will cause high income earners to lose their jobs easily.
5. As high income earners lose their jobs - they will have problem financing very high price private condos and land properties.
6. Hence imposing income ceiling based on 1 year income of $14,000 and forbidding couples to apply for a BTO flat is not a good measure of affordability - as the capital outlay to finance a house - is 20 years or more - and based solely on 1 year income as qualifying criteria - in the midst of frequent career disruptor will discourage couple to get married and buy a house - as no one can guarantee that can finance a private house in the long run.
7. I will like the Government to consider scrapping the income ceiling criteria when apply for BTO flats - to encourage young couple to get married and own a house - as the income ceiling assumption that a couple can earn high income for 20 years or more in the scenario of frequent career disruption no longer applies.
*Financial support schemes such as GST voucher, COL voucher, SCC rebates - based on public housing and private housing - need to relook*
1. Many private propertyy owners are due to income ceiling criteria - that disqualified couples from applying for BTO flats - and are forced to buy private properties.
2. As there are no guarantees that high income earners will have long term careers with high income - due to more and more frequent career disruption - in the advent of AI and other tech disruptors --- couples staying in private properties also faces financial pressure from high inflation.
3. The current financial support schemes - that dispense GST voucher, COL voucher and SCC rebates - are biased against private housing owners - as most of the time, HDB flat owners get all of it - while private housing owners are deem to be rich - and most of the time, they are left out of the SCC rebates, GST voucher or COL voucher (only recently, they get a small slice of it).
4. I wish to highlight that many private housing owners are asset rich but could be cash poor because :-
a. Through HDB income ceiling policy, many couples are forced to buy private condos or land property - because they are not qualified to apply for BTO flats to get married.
They are not necessary rich - being asset rich but cash poor - as their career may be disrupted along the way, or they get good income in the year they apply for the flat but disqualified and subsequent years their income drop.
b. Some private house owners are retirees (asset rich but cash poor) - as they no longer earn income and basically live on savings.
5. Hence come Budget 2024, I urge Government to relook at such group of Singaporeans who are staying in private condos and landed properties --- not just to base on housing types - and deny them financial support schemes eg. GST voucher, COL voucher, SCC rebates.
Other criteria such as employment status, retirement status should also be considered.
That is, if they are staying in private properties + retired --- they should also qualify for GST voucher, COL voucher and SCC rebates - just like those live in HDB BTO flats.
4/12/23, 3:59 pm - +REACH: π’ Topic π’*
4/12/23, 4:54 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>
4/12/23, 4:57 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>
4/12/23, 4:59 pm - +Rama: Agree
4/12/23, 4:59 pm - +Rama: I see muslims to be the ones with cats mostly
4/12/23, 5:00 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I wud prefer they actually go thru a physical course wher they hv to scoop up the poop, clean up the pee, wash the rug/mat tt the stupid animal has dirtied, re pot the soil in ots, etc and other public nuisance things tt these animals cause ....
So tt they (the owners themselves) _fully understand_ the inconvenience tt their /animals' actions cause!
π€
4/12/23, 5:01 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ther r Chinese ones too.
The example I gv of a 'zoo' was a Chinese owner who slammed the door in my face when I confronted him.
4/12/23, 5:02 pm - +Rose M K Ho: U wud be surprised but some Muslim cat owners r more considerate than the Chinese ones.
4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Pointless as once class is over, not going to practice what they learn!
4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Coconut Tree: I note anecdotally that the Muslim community cat feeders I've observed seem to be more diligent in clearing up the cat feeding trays than the Chinese ones.
4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Then those with dogs will be the trouble makers!
4/12/23, 5:06 pm - Your security code with +65 9852 1410 changed. Tap to learn more.
4/12/23, 5:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cat and dog are friendly but need room environment
4/12/23, 5:11 pm - +Rama: Public housing no but landed property yes
4/12/23, 5:11 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Exactly my point! π
4/12/23, 5:14 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>
4/12/23, 5:14 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Otherwise, No License!
4/12/23, 5:15 pm - +Rose M K Ho: We're talking abt rules here .. so, why be half-hearted about it?
4/12/23, 5:15 pm - +Rama: Status quo and no cats or dogs for public housing!
4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: We want to _discourage_ irresponsible human behaviour ... not allow it to rule ...
4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rama: Yes
4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: If the owner cannot adhere to the rules, then dun keep pets!
4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rama: Financial penalties!
4/12/23, 5:19 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ahh! SG ppl ... very rich nowadays la... Money No Problem .... owner wl say ... bring it on, man ! π
4/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Smiley face: Do & Don't?
How about a Demerit point system tag with the owner for any violations from animal abuse, animal violence to littering such as poo and/or pee or public nuisance shall add up to penalty from fines to higher licence fees for the following two years. During the two years of Demerit, any new and or repeat offenses shall be dealt in court.
4/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Rama: Corrective Work Order!
4/12/23, 5:24 pm - +Smiley face: Clean what?
For how long?
How about repeat offenders?
Clean more?
Longer cleaning?
4/12/23, 5:25 pm - +Rama: Clear the common corridor on all floors and around the block!
4/12/23, 5:26 pm - +Smiley face: Wow!
Area cleaning!
Length of CWO?
4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Good idea ... like insurance accident renewal plan .... π€
4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Rose M K Ho: CWO ... most definitely!
4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: Why don’t have HDB guide SG cat
4/12/23, 5:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cat next neighbour cat they will fighting each other.
4/12/23, 5:30 pm - +Redzuan: tagging was introduces probably because owners wanna have them when they are cute, kitten/puppy ... then release them cos few years down having the pet actually is a liability, cannot go long holiday π
4/12/23, 5:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: What happen if cat got pregnant by next neighbour who are responsible?
4/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Rose M K Ho: That's why *sterilisation shd be compulsory*
4/12/23, 5:33 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
"The Big Read: As Singaporeans flock to Malaysia to seek respite from rising costs, are they inflicting the same on JB?"
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singaporeans-malaysia-ringgit-rising-costs-spending-big-read-3961036#:~:text=The%20Big%20Read%3A%20As%20Singaporeans%20flock%20to%20Malaysia%20to%20seek%20respite%20from%20rising%20costs%2C%20are%20they%20inflicting%20the%20same%20on%20JB%3F
4/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: If the owner cannot be responsible enough or no know-how to take care of pets, perhaps he or she or the family should just let it go to others to care.
Buying a pet is the FIRST happiness...
4/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: The power of SG$.
4/12/23, 5:35 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also means cash outflow will happen.
4/12/23, 5:36 pm - +Smiley face: Protectionism or the concept of cash flows?
4/12/23, 5:37 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Well, will see.
If large cash outflow happens when rich Singaporeans start to buy more JB property - Singapore flat and private property prices will drop.
4/12/23, 5:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: JB sovereign wealth land will become Singapore acquired π€
4/12/23, 5:38 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore: Is it really the most expensive place to live?
Are prices in Singapore going up and what is the Government doing about it?
https://www.gov.sg/article/singapore-is-it-really-the-most-expensive-place-to-live
4/12/23, 5:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Government make use of Singapore competition rank world <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 5:39 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Actually, government already responding as world wealth report come out.
4/12/23, 5:40 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
China impose capital control when country garden was build in JB - to stop China nationals from buying - due to huge capital outflow.
4/12/23, 5:40 pm - +Smiley face: Foreigners coming to buy SG properties....evolving and rotational play.
4/12/23, 5:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes correct because sg is clean green and low crime do not mean no crime
4/12/23, 5:41 pm - +Smiley face: How much foreign funds have parked in SG?
Trillions?
What are the factors of a strong currency of a nation?
4/12/23, 5:42 pm - +Smiley face: SG is such an easy pissy place to do business and raise a young family....
4/12/23, 5:42 pm - +Rama: One day already penguin!
4/12/23, 5:42 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
When that happens, Singapore will be losing local talents.
And foreigners will not be able to do many jobs that are done by locals.
4/12/23, 5:43 pm - +Rama: Yes
4/12/23, 5:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: Reserve fund is a lot of gold than current. SG has zero borrow world bank.
4/12/23, 5:44 pm - +Smiley face: To begin the game of talents....our population is small to begin with...
We really need to absorb talents from all over the world!
Talent is one key to a strong, progressive and vibrant country!
Currency is another factor that attracts talents to come to work!
4/12/23, 5:44 pm - +Smiley face: Today's GOLD hit a new high! More upside into 2024!
Why so?
4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Value investment
4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Rama: Y
4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Smiley face: Gold soars past $2,100 to new record — and analysts don't expect it to stop there
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/04/gold-prices-set-for-new-highs-amid-economic-geopolitical-uncertainty.html?__source=androidappshare
4/12/23, 5:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes who want investment gold when there will be crisis economy so gold value can back up
4/12/23, 5:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia very slow economy and most properties unsold the market and price going down resale
4/12/23, 5:50 pm - +9richard: <Media omitted>
4/12/23, 5:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: JB is most dangerous and crime rate high than sg
4/12/23, 5:51 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Eg. Cannot be government jobs, defense jobs, security jobs, and critical infrastructure jobs all helm by foreigners instead of local talents?
If the push and pull factors are sufficiently strong - this will happen. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
4/12/23, 6:02 pm - +Smiley face: Later on, a short preliminary synopsis on one of our Strategic assets is SIA/Scoot. (though it is different from today's topic on cats).
Going into 2024, there are mounting headwinds from Asia into Europe and America.
It's worth reading and hopefully SIA will look into the thesis.
4/12/23, 6:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Time is filled and fast near 2024 to 2030 meantime will be Ai robot replaced human job. There will be digital on industry 4.0
4/12/23, 6:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: SP will go to EP higher level
4/12/23, 6:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Germany, euro, USA, Japan and china developed Ai economy
4/12/23, 6:21 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
In my generations, many I know of are affected by this income ceiling criteria and force to buy private property.
But because career runway is long with less career disruption - many manage to pay off the private property financing debt - but struggle beyond 50 years old - as now discrimination against mature workers are manifesting.
Now come to their children generation - again this income ceiling criteria are forcing their children to take the same path.
But this time career disruption is more frequent as AI and other tech disruptors that disrupt careers are more frequent and more potent.
Forcing their children to take up big housing loans with high interest rates to finance exorbitant private housing prices - with more uncertainty in career and income - is like living with a gun pointing at the head - a constant stressor.
Hence government should seriously look into this.
Removing the income ceiling criteria for bto flat - is an instant relief. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 6:31 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Last time, resale HDB flats has only used up 5 to 10 years of lease - still has 90 years lease - and making them buy resale flats are still possible.
Now majority of the flats are left with 60 years lease - selling at high price but yet if bought, the buyers cannot even sustain himself to old age because when the lease expires, he got no place to stay.
Hence income ceiling criteria no longer serves its purpose and no longer applicable to the young couples circumstances.
It should be scrapped. <This message was edited>
4/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Rama: Re-evaluate?
4/12/23, 6:32 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Government should.
Because many young couples who still have not got their flats are already gossiping and raising the above concerns.
4/12/23, 6:33 pm - +Rama: Can be a hot topic for GE25!?
4/12/23, 6:33 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I raise it a few times already.
4/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Rama: Hopefully don't fall on deaf ears!?
4/12/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
4/12/23, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
4/12/23, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
====
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