REACH 515 - What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need?
(SK)
01 Dec 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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Megan 😊
1/12/23, 9:48 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
1/12/23, 10:00 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
Singaporeans with greater needs will continue receiving help with the Government raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes.
The move, which takes effect from 2024, comes against the backdrop of rising annual property values, MOF announced on Nov 30.
💬 *What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need?*
📌 These support schemes include the GST Voucher scheme, MediShield Life premium subsidies and the Workfare Income Supplement scheme.
📌 From Jan 1, 2024, the annual value threshold will be raised from $13,000 to $21,000 for the first tier, which provides a higher quantum of benefits. This new threshold will cover all Housing Board flats, the Ministry of Finance (MOF) said. The second tier, which offers a lower quantum of benefits, will see a higher annual value threshold as well.
📌 The revised annual value threshold of $25,000, up from $21,000, will cover about three-quarters of residential properties, including some lower-value private homes.
📌 Separately, the Ministry of Health (MOH) announced that any change in subsidy or assistance arising from changes in residential property annual values will be automatically extended to healthcare schemes.
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/business/annual-property-value-thresholds-for-social-support-schemes-to-rise-from-2024
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/business/property-taxes-for-most-homes-to-rise-in-2024-govt-to-give-one-off-rebate-to-cushion-impact
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/budget-2023-more-help-for-singaporeans-to-cope-with-rising-costs-gst-hike
1/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
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1/12/23, 10:02 am - +Rama: Timely to coincide with various increases
1/12/23, 10:10 am - +Liang Wei: Consider giving more money to those who are caring for elderly parents at home especially if they fulfill
1) Tiered to income but more generous
2) The elderly will otherwise be in hospital n cost the country even more in terms of healthcare subsidies n bed crunch. So the country saves on building hospitals, unnecessary subsidies for cases, nursing manpower crunch for those patients who can be managed at home.
3)Sandwiched persons get more help
Win win potentially. There are already some support schemes but not enough to shift the needle from admission to home care
1/12/23, 10:12 am - +Frankie Wee: 🤦
Property annual value increased
Housing mortgage loan rate rising
1/12/23, 10:13 am - +Frankie Wee: HDB no change alway remain rate 2.6%
1/12/23, 10:28 am - +Darius Lee: In my view, property value is a rather loose and not entirely accurate way of assessing a person's means. It is a fixed and non-liquid asset. It also fluctuates in value depending on the market.
It would be better for the Government to use less of these kinds of monetary thresholds and more of other means of assessment which are based instead on specific needs (e.g. healthcare, etc.)
1/12/23, 10:33 am - +MK TPG: 1. Why the need to increase the property values, when the value of the 99-year ones eventually becomes zero?
2. The increase in values will affect the means testing for various subsidies. Has this been taken into account?
1/12/23, 10:34 am - +Smiley face: https://mustsharenews.com/malaysia-living-costs-salaries/?utm_source=telegram
1/12/23, 10:34 am - +Smiley face: https://mustsharenews.com/singapore-expensive-city-zurich/?utm_source=telegram
1/12/23, 10:35 am - +Rama: Point 2 is good!
1/12/23, 10:36 am - +Frankie Wee: Govt taxpayers
1/12/23, 10:37 am - +Smiley face: Concept of property and value and tax.
Higher value property will pay higher tax.
1/12/23, 10:37 am - +Rama: Smart cunning move!
1/12/23, 10:38 am - +Smiley face: Try other developed countries, test the concepts and see the corresponding costs and benefits?
1/12/23, 10:38 am - +Frankie Wee: I never see any HDB estate have freehold lease <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 10:39 am - +Frankie Wee: Since many year same housing public same policy <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 10:40 am - +Smiley face: The concept of convenience, comfort and costs.
1/12/23, 10:40 am - +Frankie Wee: Who can live healthy after 99 years
Can we walk and talk in mental health
1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Smiley face: How?
1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Smiley face: Why?
1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Frankie Wee: Technology is advance Ai treatment human health
1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Frankie Wee: Everyone family want to live next generation
1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Smiley face: Government to pilot ‘long-stay’ serviced apartments on two GLS sites to address rental demand
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/government-pilot-long-stay-serviced-apartments-two-gls-sites-address-rental-demand
2027 and beyond?
Beyond 2023, OrangeTee and Tie data shows a fall in supply. Excluding ECs, private residential completions are expected to decline from 19,050 units in 2023 to 9,875 units in 2024. They will then fall further to 6,028 units in 2025 and to 5,154 units in 2026.
1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Frankie Wee: And make them stay under one roof family to save up money in future
1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Smiley face: Concept of continuation.
1/12/23, 11:44 am - +Redzuan: hdb prices now equivalent to condo. ?
1/12/23, 11:45 am - +Rama: Definitely not within affordable means anymore!
1/12/23, 11:46 am - +Jimmy Chew: Inevitable. Small Island. Big opportunities
1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Jimmy Chew: Safe haven
1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: Live in prime is high price
1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Jimmy Chew: You should see the new hbd estates like condo standard
1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: Standard and plus price middle to high
1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: True 🤭
1/12/23, 11:49 am - +Jimmy Chew: Sometimes better design than the new condos
1/12/23, 11:53 am - +Frankie Wee: Price can be same level
HDB plus = condo Standard
Service maintenance and SC & C and AV tax
different afford <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 11:55 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
The underlying assumption here is that if we live in a higher annual value threshold property, we are richer and better off. This may not be necessarily true:
1. Unmarried sibling living together with parent or sibling. Neither is he/she the owner, nor own any properties. But he could be cash/equity rich or very poor because he owns nothing, not even a home.
2. Property values appreciate over time, but to the individual , he's still living in the same space. To the individual, the annual value is just a number for tax computation purposes. It only make money sense if the property can be rented. So he should downgrade? There're costs eg sales commission, buyer's stamp duties, renovation and moving costs. And if the person has reached a certain age, such an decision can be overwhelming and may not lead to substantial savings unless the downgrade is vast.
3. Some people were forced into filial plights. Say they buy HDB flat with parents/for parents and have to end up buying private property for his own home and end up paying and paying.
On the other hand, I can understand it's an emotive issue - wahlao! Stay in private property still get GST vouchers, etc etc.
So it has to be more complex, taking into consideration multiple factors like age, health etc.
1/12/23, 11:55 am - +Smiley face: Closing up.
1/12/23, 11:55 am - +Smiley face: Towards equality.
1/12/23, 11:56 am - +Smiley face: Condon owner pays higher monthly fees compared to HDB.
1/12/23, 11:56 am - +Smiley face: Convenience and more assessable.
1/12/23, 11:57 am - +Smiley face: Live within one's budget and means. There is a need to count the money pot before one chooses and decides on tangibles.
1/12/23, 11:58 am - +Frankie Wee: Home owner live in prime after 10 years they would sell millions dollars HDB and then move to standard or plus making profit take
1/12/23, 11:58 am - +Smiley face: Not so and never it will...?
1/12/23, 11:59 am - +Smiley face: Can also, that's one strategy to build quick wealth.... watch out for the cost curve and price indexes
1/12/23, 12:00 pm - +Redzuan: Its a process for Singaporean to integrate in 20-30yrs down , within neighbours, and soon seeing more international communities because rental prices will side to hdb spaces. (Hopefully, that's not the reason.)
Previous times, condo management had hard time with upgrades, likely i see HDB officers have a hard time with downgrades. (Hopefully that's not true either)
1/12/23, 12:01 pm - +Smiley face: How property valuer quantifies and qualifies any piece of property whether is free or leasehold, public or private?
1/12/23, 12:02 pm - +Smiley face: HDB has renewal plans called SERS whereas an ageing private condo will wait out to enbloc or sell?
1/12/23, 12:03 pm - +Rama: Many still misculate with lack of proper planning and foresight!
1/12/23, 12:05 pm - +Smiley face: Try buying your first overseas home?
In SG, our property markets are so transparent with the least loopholes or pitfalls wherever you go shop or book a BTO!
Almost 100% fool proof!
Try buying overseas!
1/12/23, 12:06 pm - +Rama: Overseas very tricky still no matter where!
1/12/23, 12:07 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, yupp, yes!
Open your eyes and brain wide!
There the centre area is a big big geography!
Try putting your money that will lay golden eggs?
1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Redzuan: I believe the government already has the plan. ( i hope 🙏)
Hmm, 15yrs back agents see opportunity, the hdb prices rocket because of the MRT railway plans.
(Hopefully this is not true)
1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Smiley face: SG is such an easy pissy place to play....
1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, yupp, YES!
1/12/23, 12:09 pm - +Rama: This message was deleted
1/12/23, 12:09 pm - +Smiley face: There will be another round of opportunities to enter the property market!
Back to 30 years ago, properties were relatively cheaper then....BUT so did the wages, lowered too!
The concept of RELATIVITY.
1/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Rama: Agree
1/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Anyone have to pay deposit RM$1m above and insurance will accept buy reaident those are not cheap nor govt give subsidy need foreigner.
1/12/23, 12:10 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Singapore property values have been increasing steadily as reflected by the increasing rents and the property price sold - be it the HDB flats or private properties.
2. Hence raising the annual residential property value thresholds to determine eligibility for social support schemes - is a necessary measure - as the same people who should be receiving the social support schemes will fall off the schemes by virtue of the appreciating property values - but no actual monetary inflow to the household as they need to stay in the house.
1/12/23, 12:11 pm - +Smiley face: "Product? Profit? Policy?"
" When you change a structure and/or a matter into something new and new uses, you just created a new thing, a new way and a new idea. It's that simple!"
- - anonymity
1/12/23, 12:12 pm - +Smiley face: Open your eyes before you plunge...
1/12/23, 12:13 pm - +Smiley face: It's more happenings underground?
"Given the circumstances of the future of climate changes, population increases, ageing, and living conveniences... reimagining up to three basements of shops, stores, cinemas, bowling, library, markets and carparks, the sales revenue for these basement commercial units will cover more than a third of the costs of construction for a cluster of 15-20 blocks of flats. The sales price of flats would be kept affordable at the same time freeing up more ground space to build more flats, facilities, greenery and waterways."
- - anonymity
1/12/23, 12:13 pm - +Rama: Assest rich but cash poor for point 2
1/12/23, 12:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: I have opened my eyes get information but No I don’t plunge.
1/12/23, 12:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore is a place called home
1/12/23, 12:15 pm - +Rama: 👍🤝🙌👌👍
1/12/23, 12:15 pm - +Smiley face: Smart shopper!
1/12/23, 12:16 pm - +Smiley face: Cash converter.
1/12/23, 12:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: They can use cpf voluntary housing refund before or after 55 they don’t wish to sell. <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 12:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I think they're learning from UK. Own a Manor and continue to collect welfare hahaha
1/12/23, 12:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We all aim to game the system
1/12/23, 12:25 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Many are like that.
Many retirees stay in private property - but low in cash.
1/12/23, 12:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore future Ai what will be look like.
Coffeeshop:
seafood Ai robot cooking 3mins any menu no more chef cooking.
Stall will have machine ready pick foodstuffs or delivery
Hawker stall will get small room reduce size and use smart machines maker foods
HDB building redevelopment will have a bee hive home
1/12/23, 12:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤣
1/12/23, 12:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Job system will change much faster business completion and current no more old job like cashier or else
1/12/23, 12:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: HDB bee hive home affordable and cheap one
1/12/23, 12:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s just my imagination and ridiculous 😅
1/12/23, 12:36 pm - +Ben: Agreed!
1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dbs-uob-ocbc-banks-money-locking-features-protect-against-scams-3947701?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_27112023_cna
1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 12:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My comments:-
1. Money lock for savings that people want to protect (eg. Savings, FD) - government idea.
2. Digital in, Physical out.
OOB authentication (physical - air-gap) - bank visit
(My idea) ....
My close friend comments:
The other problem is scammer theives max out our credit card limit and take out loans.
My comments:-
These 2 loopholes also need to cover up.
1/12/23, 1:08 pm - +Rama: As mentioned by Minister Indranee Rajah in Parliament
1/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
*OCBC*
1. Now only saving account can do moneylock via OCBC mobile apps.
But FD, loan application, credit limit - cannot be moneylock.
I feedback to OCBC bank officer, she say she will highlight to OCBC management.
1/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
*DBS*
1. Now only FD can be moneylock via website chatbot:-
posb.com.sg
(Type:-
"lock fixed deposit" - under chatbot message)
2. Saving account moneylock can only be done via applying another account - DigiVault.
Available only by 7 Dec 2023.
Similarly loan application, credit limit - cannot be moneylock.
I feedback to DBS bank officer, she say she will highlight to DBS management.
I say online scammers can do online application of loan on victims bank account and then steal away the money from the saving account.
Victims then laden with debt and debt interest.
I say this loopholes must also be plugged.
She say she will feedback. <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 1:39 pm - +Rama: UOB!?🤷♂️
1/12/23, 1:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
UOB I don't know.
I no account.
1/12/23, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
1/12/23, 2:46 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
💬 *What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need?*
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan 😊
1/12/23, 2:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can I return back my property CPF for retire because of reason lease expiry become ZERO value then CPF account will turn zero too.
How do use CPF voluntarily housing refund and do not wish to sell.
1/12/23, 2:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: BRS and FRS will increase hard to met top up cash 😳
1/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Rama: Yes
1/12/23, 2:53 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I think when property lease expires at 99 years for HDB flats - the value will not be 0.
I think government is working on VER (voluntary enbloc) to be able to monetise some money from the flats before the lease expires - if I am not wrong.
1/12/23, 2:54 pm - +KL: Mean richer will get richer
1/12/23, 2:55 pm - +KL: Cos freehold
1/12/23, 2:55 pm - +KL: That why good gdp doesn’t mean all citizen benefit from it
1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Not familiar to news
There were Geylang Bahru
hdb terrace house lease expired and land return to SLA. It’s said no value
1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +KL: The 60 years lease if I not wrong <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes
1/12/23, 2:58 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
How will freehold be richer if owners don't sell their property if they need to stay in it?
They are still asset rich but money poor.
1/12/23, 2:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t know whether pap govt care people to live on and we pay property tax.
1/12/23, 2:59 pm - +KL: You should tell this to the public and see how many agree, if the public agree than
字如我心 （ their agreement will be my opinion) <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 3:01 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Because based on logic, this is the case.
1/12/23, 3:02 pm - +KL: Most ppl in hdb will sell and move to smaller hdb or further hdb . Not sure why freehold can’t ?
1/12/23, 3:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ndr-2023-14-million-singaporeans-aged-50-and-up-to-get-more-help-meeting-retirement-needs
1/12/23, 3:07 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Most people don't buy and sell hdb to move to a smaller flats to encash.
Unless you have statistics to say otherwise.
1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +KL: Than why govt build so many those aged ppl flat :)) also sort of encash by right ? <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Like I said HDB bee hive home cheap
1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Sh Koh: If got choice.. why pple wanna do it ?
1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Size car park small one in future then how I think myself is ridiculous
1/12/23, 3:09 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Any statistics?
Most of my neighbors are still staying around me for many decades and didn't see people moving in and out.
1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +KL: You should ask hdb ,
1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +KL: As far as I know a number
1/12/23, 3:10 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Oh, so you are just guessing.
1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +KL: Some already even move to Thailand
1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t like Thailand
1/12/23, 3:10 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Millions of HDB owners, how many are like that? <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +KL: It not you want or don’t but no choice
1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +KL: Lol maybe but I remeber that time no one saw the nus report yet everyone was talking about it .
1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +Sh Koh: Ya... hopefully.. not.. and other ownself help ownself.. govt shld also do more
1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +KL: Not sure U live in hdb or also ? <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 3:13 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes I do
1/12/23, 3:13 pm - +KL: My district a lot move out
1/12/23, 3:14 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I purposely, innocently go to an offshore bank - Maybank and ask can savings and FD be moneylock to protect against online scammers?
This is to "buat bodoh" - using customers pressure to press offshore banks also to do moneylock to protect bank customers.
Maybank officer say only local banks are doing moneylock but not offshore banks.
I say offshore banks also need to protect bank customers against online scammers.
The bank officer start to look panicky.
I say good to feedback to your bank management.
1/12/23, 3:15 pm - +Rama: Good job!
1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think myself better live sacrifice in sg future no matter how hard and accepting at all cost
1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Likewise
1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: But hurting HDB lease expiry return SLA and $0
1/12/23, 3:18 pm - +KL: Need to cos PR also buy hdb so if return got money , than you will find issue in long run
1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +KL: So govt is smart that it cut to zero cos hdb is not only for local . Resale are bought by non local / new citizen <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +Rama: Believe so
1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +KL: If not those millions dollar hdb who have money to buy ?
1/12/23, 3:45 pm - +GLCM: It's a step in a way in the right direction.
However, there are many cases which will unfortunately be categorised "inappropriately" due to compelling reasons even though they live in say.... bungalows. In that way, it will penalise them further from subsidies which they would otherwise qualify for.
So consider allowing an appeals channel for the relevant authorities to review the application to be re categorised or to apply for subsidies.
Most front line staffers will outright reject such appeals without batting an eyelid because they're following the "rules"... So in anticipation of these, any appeals should then be brought to the attention of "higher ups" without question.
1/12/23, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Agree
1/12/23, 4:32 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
1/12/23, 4:34 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If freehold private property owners are forced to downgrade to sell their property and buy HDB flats - I can guarantee HDB resale flats will shoot up to $2 million - if these is what you want.
1/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Competition marketing
1/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: But hurt low income people
1/12/23, 4:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
That's why some people complain without thinking of the consequences.
It will backfire on them.
1/12/23, 4:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: How about policy maker for those who wish freehold mins income allow them to buy resale of redevelopments. And are separate high income not allow buy HDB those who hold private land property wish to buy HDB rule within 20 years allow to them buy.
1/12/23, 4:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Some high income earners are already discriminated due to income ceiling set by not allowing them to buy HDB flats.
They are force to buy EC or private property.
These are all talents that the country needs.
If government still implement policies that discriminate against them, all these talents will leave Singapore and work overseas.
Then Singapore will have no high income earners to tax and all lower and middle income will pay more and more GST and property tax and income tax. <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 4:43 pm - +Redzuan: Thresholds increase attracts more buyers in some specific segments. Sounds like a corporate way of doing it. To close the gaps to units that are empty/not favourable? 🫣
we have the Sandwich category, Sudden mishap in a family, ... blah blah...
Long list to go on..
Perhaps may start from this..
Eg, Families with bigger familes (with old parents or/and many children) but unable to afford bigger flats. Can govt think of this temp relief for these families? But they are also not trapped with bigger flat subsidies along the duration. How long? What is the criteria? Why the need?
( *But must have heavy penalties to those who abuse this*)
.....
1/12/23, 4:45 pm - +KL: Real talent already attracted to no wealth tax leh the rest just freebies to them <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 4:45 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Until now, I still don't understand why Singaporeans who are of higher income - are being discriminated upon - not allowing to buy HDB flats - even though they can pay the full price without subsidies by creating an elite class.
Further discrimination policy against them will backfire if people don't understand the consequences.
1/12/23, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Good point
1/12/23, 4:47 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If you listen to what those talents are saying, you probably don't understand the consequences.
Talents are wanted everywhere in the world.
Trying further discrimination, then you will eat the fruits
1/12/23, 4:50 pm - +KL: You should create talent not attract talent
1/12/23, 4:50 pm - +KL: If you attract talent to create talent I think most voice would have silence
1/12/23, 4:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahahaha...
Trying creating talents to build GAI.
Nuclear fusion scientists.
Quantum computing scientists.
Etc.
Can you be trained to be one?
1/12/23, 4:52 pm - +KL: You always say those highest level technology how about lower one .
1/12/23, 4:52 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 4:53 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Lower one got high value added to GDP growth meh?
1/12/23, 4:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
HK policy miscues - talents flow out like water pipe leaking - and many are irreplaceable.
1/12/23, 4:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 4:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Only high tech talents can bring high GDP growth and contribute to high government revenue.
17.3% estimated $103 billion GDP generated by digital economy.
1/12/23, 4:58 pm - +KL: Competing / coding is lower than the 2 right ? In fact nuclear is a 1940 tech , due to the negative impact so most country won’t teach as well
1/12/23, 4:58 pm - +KL: I do agree computer is important but it started a bit too late I remember there once computeribg is a dumping ground for grad in 2004
1/12/23, 4:59 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Digital economy is about AI, machine learning, Generative AI, natural language, LLM, Quantum computing.
Nuclear fusion is different from nuclear fission.
1/12/23, 5:01 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Not to mention blockchain, CBDC (central bank digital currency), mobile apps development, cloud computing, Cybersecurity etc
So many endless ....
So which is low end talents?
They all sounds like high end talents to me.
1/12/23, 5:05 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Quantum computing - superposition, Quantum Entanglement, ...
Nuclear fusion, fusion of deuterium, tritium, hydrogen/helium atom fusion plasma to generate heat, steam turbine to generate electricity.
So need high tech talents ?
Low tech talents can?
1/12/23, 5:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 5:08 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 5:11 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: https://stackedhomes.com/editorial/live-in-johor-bahru-but-work-in-singapore-how-the-rts-link-is-reviving-interest-in-cheap-jb-properties
Johor Bahru But Work In Singapore?
How The RTS Link Is Reviving Interest In Cheap JB Properties.
1/12/23, 5:12 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Malaysia intend to reverse the flow of talents from Singapore.
1/12/23, 5:22 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If Malaysia is successful to entice rich Singaporeans to buy properties in JB and work in Singapore.
Then Singapore will experience a large cash outflow into JB.
Singapore government will have less property tax, absd, stamp duty to collect.
Property values (HDB and private property) in Singapore will drop drastically.
Lower and middle income group in Singapore will have to pay higher and higher GST, income tax and other tax - as discriminated high income group move to JB to buy bungalows.
Then good luck to the lower and middle income group. <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 5:28 pm - +KL: Then why sg spent money on RTS ? Using tax payer money to cause this ? Don’t make sense :((
1/12/23, 5:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can’t buy in JB they require Singapore open bank account in Maybank deposit RM$1m
1/12/23, 5:29 pm - +KL: I think he saying about super rich , but super rich not sure they will move in or not
1/12/23, 5:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: Better live sacrifice here 🙈🙈🙈🙈
1/12/23, 5:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: Possible for rich can hold overseas properties
1/12/23, 5:30 pm - +KL: Wait get kidnapped :)) so don’t think the super rich will move there <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 5:31 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Retired Singaporeans stay in JB and the super rich stay in Singapore to contribute jobs and progress and GDP
1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Clever way of maximising land mass
1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +KL: That why the KL rail if successful most local will be game over <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +KL: Not sure why no one speak for local
1/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Haha our kids won't wanna be butlers and servers Cf monte Carlo <This message was edited>
1/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: HRS (High speed rail) project already agreed govt
1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Revived
1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Benefits for all
1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +KL: I think they will consider it but lost the heat cause sg lost 300 millions on it
1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Yes
1/12/23, 5:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So don't anyhow squeeze the local high income earners.
Once they get piss off, they will move.
They are highly mobile and wanted by foreign government and business all over the world.
1/12/23, 5:37 pm - +KL: You mean you should squeeze the low income earner ?
1/12/23, 5:37 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I didn't say that.
1/12/23, 5:37 pm - +Rama: 😄😳
1/12/23, 5:39 pm - +KL: Of course of course . you did not say that , haha but do remind one should not even think of that.
1/12/23, 5:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I only say be fair to all, including the high income earners.
Because they contribute the most in tax and GDP to Singapore and government coffers.
That's how low and middle income earners get the help from government.
The moment we treat high income earners like dirt or cow to milk - they will get piss off and move away.
Then all the lower and middle income will be the biggest sufferers.
1/12/23, 5:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 5:44 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If we piss off the top 11% high income earners - that is the end of all your GST and COL grants.
1/12/23, 5:46 pm - +Rama: Yup
1/12/23, 5:50 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Our.kids will the top 10 richest in the third world countries as our SME becomes Singapore multinationals locates overseas
1/12/23, 5:51 pm - +Rama: Wonderful
1/12/23, 5:51 pm - +Redzuan: now there are lots of survey ... rate 1-9. i go with 3 on this
1/12/23, 5:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: I saw TikTok videos post japan house abandoned free $0 but only taxpayer and maintenance fee.
1/12/23, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
1/12/23, 6:16 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 6:17 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: Already happening.
1/12/23, 6:20 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 6:20 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: Already happening.
1/12/23, 6:28 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
1/12/23, 6:29 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Even Tan kin lian bought a unit at JB.
1/12/23, 6:30 pm - +Ah Heng: human nature 0> will zone in where is cheap
1/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Ah Heng: yes it might be pocket freindly at that moment bu tin the long run is it really worthy
1/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Ah Heng: on the other hand what is our local leadership team to do
1/12/23, 6:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Thus important our policy must make people welcome to stay in Singapore.
1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Search safe place where they more security than other
Malaysia has high crime rate
1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Ah Heng: can they forever taxthe middle class while giving freebies to the low class while the rich class still get away with paying what can be more required to pay
1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Ah Heng: welcome to stay and cost of living needs to go hand in hand
1/12/23, 6:33 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
The high income already contributed about 80% of the tax.
1/12/23, 6:33 pm - +Ah Heng: it cannot be welcome to stay but the cost of living will harbour the thught of cause to leave
1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: the rich should be made to pay more which some other countries i think do
1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: else the middle class will always be the one suffering
1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: go see in public forum people (middle classes) are getting pissed!
1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: the govt cannot be surrounded by yes man and people who feedback what they wan to hear
1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: be like some of the old guard and the ex MRT ceo go down by yourself
1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: feel the ground on regulars basis
1/12/23, 6:36 pm - +Ah Heng: and stop feeling the best (rate ourselves always under 90% ) so there is always the push for 10% for better performance
1/12/23, 6:37 pm - +Ah Heng: hong kong is a very good example of good feel of welcome but the cost of living (just rent itself) is a put off not to mentioned the cost of living is another nail to the coffin
1/12/23, 6:38 pm - +Ah Heng: japan too .. surface very nice but the cost of living (housing and work culture is not one will wish) but in terms of supplies they can be pretty wallet friendly
1/12/23, 6:38 pm - +Ah Heng: let's be the innovative country we used to be and not follow what other countries are doing ...
1/12/23, 6:40 pm - +Ah Heng: if anyone says Singapore is expensive and is hell to live life here, we should take that as a fact in the fact BUT also knowing we ae not the 1st in APAC to be so highly expensive but neither should we remain status quo
1/12/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
1/12/23, 6:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
These are the world's most expensive cities to live in right now. Singapore rank top. https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/these-are-the-worlds-most-expensive-cities-to-live-in-right-now-030927843.html
1/12/23, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 1 December, 2023
"Taxes and Taxing"
"Population is about people; the minimum of any good policy is to achieve a balance for as many people as possible..."
- - anonymity
Nobody loves to pay more?
So what are the damages or unintended outcomes?
Besides the comparative costs competitiveness of nations. The latest property tax for citizens, it is another impact to stomach.
In simple words, many policies (political) challenges from the left to the right, in the coming GE or sooner it comes and the middle class happens to be the majority of voters.
The cost of livings & housing are always sensitive political issue in any population. In life, people have multiple choices to decide and housing is the number one in the millions of minds whether is to own or to rent or to buy later; you need a roof over your head. This strategic asset is getting expensive. The other considerations are job, income, security and safety!
Why so tough?
The wider the wealth gap follows by the income gap which will quickly turned into a segregated society of the achievers, the aspirers, and the losers; two extreme ends and one in-between, that will be the permanent strata of our society!
How to compact or unite as many people as possible?
Continue to calibrate and align a bunch of fairer policies of taxonomy from food to taxes to fees to utilities and petrol price. The least lots that benefit the least shall foot the least fees or taxes? Sounds like we have been doing it and its on-going efforts to balance many tangibles!
The challenges are in the bulk, aka the middle class income earners or households and low income families.
How can we not squeeze them at the same time not overly charging the higher income folks? As policymakers, it is a tough job to balance between affordability, accessibility and people!
How to win the hearts and the souls? Look for sweet spots (甜头), and make it sooner than later!
- - in progress - -
1/12/23, 7:01 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
1/12/23, 7:01 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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