REACH 426 - [SHARE YOUR VIEWS #3] Budget 2023 – Strengthening our Social Compact
(SK)
14 Feb 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[11:00 am, 14/02/2023] +REACH: π’ BUDGET SPEECH TODAY @ 3.30PM
DPM & Finance Minister Lawrence Wong will be delivering the Budget 2023 speech in Parliament today at 3.30pm. The Budget - themed Moving Forward in a New Era , will set out how Singapore can secure its prospects in a troubled world as it prepares for a post-pandemic future.
It looks at how the Government can:
(1) Help Singaporeans seize new opportunities π
(2) Strengthen our social compact π
(3) Give assurance for families π‘
(4) Build our collective resilience as one people πͺπ»
π Watch the Budget speech live at 3.30pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_HxaUlUMTQ
ππ» For more info on Budget 2023, please visit MOF's Singapore Budget website at https://www.mof.gov.sg/singaporebudget.
[3:32 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: π’ SHARE YOUR VIEWS HERE ON THE BUDGET 2023 SPEECH π’
DPM & Finance Minister Lawrence Wong is delivering the Budget 2023 speech now in Parliament. Watch the speech live (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_HxaUlUMTQ) and share your views on Budget 2023 measures here!
[3:36 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Thank you
Megan π
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[3:41 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Agree with DPM Lawrence Wong that whatever amount we have drawn from the reserves to fund our spending during covid - must eventually be put back.
This can't be done one shot due to the large amount - but can be done as installment year by year.
2. This ensures our reserves are not drawn down and misuse.
3. This will be our future assets that can help to protect us in future as well as for our future descendants.
[3:45 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
4. As our reserves and human capital are our only resources.
Due to our limited land spaces and no natural resources - we must preserve and accumulate our reserves as our guarantor.
[4:00 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: [SHARE YOUR VIEWS #1] Budget 2023 – Helping Singaporeans deal with Inflation
DPM & Finance Minister Lawrence Wong just announced a set of measures to help Singaporeans deal with the high levels of inflation. On average, these enhancements will fully cover the increases in expenses for lower-income households caused by higher inflation and the GST rate increase.
What are your views on these measures to help Singaporeans cope with inflation?
The measures include:
(1) Enhancements to the permanent GST Voucher (GSTV) Cash scheme – Lower income households will receive more cash for their immediate needs, as compared to last year
(2) Enhancements to the Assurance Package (AP) - $300 - $650 increase in total cash payouts for eligible Singaporeans and $100 increase in CDC vouchers in 2024
(3) Additional one-off 2023 AP support measures -
• $200 - $400 Cost-of-Living (COL) Special Payment for eligible adult Singaporeans
• $200 - $300 COL Seniors’ Bonus for eligible Singapore citizens aged 55 and above
• Top-ups to Child Development Account (aged 0-6) and Edusave Account/ Post-Secondary Education Account (aged 7-20)
ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-budget-2023-live-lawrence-wong-3268721
[4:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: [POLL 1] I feel that these Budget 2023 measures will help me to better deal with inflation. Do explain why in the chat below!
Strongly Agree
Agree
Neutral
Disagree
Strongly Disagree
[4:06 pm, 14/02/2023] +Caleb: this is to help cover GST increase only, not cost of living
[4:22 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: [SHARE YOUR VIEWS #2] Budget 2023 – Growing our Economy and Equipping our Workers
DPM and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong announced measures to keep our economy competitive and innovative so as to provide opportunities for Singaporeans to thrive.
Do you think that these measures will help to equip and empower Singapore workers – especially for our seniors and lower-wage workers?
The Government will introduce:
(1) Job-Skills Integrators - Integrators will link up industry, training and employment facilitation partners to optimize training and placement solutions, and ensure training translates into positive outcomes
(2) Employment support for senior workers who wish to continue working -
• Senior Employment credit extension till 2025 to provide wage offsets to employers who hire senior workers
• Part-time Re-employment Grant extension till 2025 to encourage employers to offer part-time work, flexible work arrangements and career planning for senior workers
(3) Employment support for lower-wage workers - $2.4 billion Progressive Wage Credit Scheme fund top-up to maintain higher Government co-funding share of eligible wage increases for lower-wage workers
(4) Wage offsets for firms that hire PWDs
[4:26 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Job-Skills Integrators particularly useful - as training and placement - will guarantee securing of jobs for job seekers.
[4:27 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
2. Business also can gauge job applicants performance - as job seekers train and produce outputs - that are visible to employers.
[4:40 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Just Increasing CPF grant, no other measure to Cool the Property market?!
Surprising..
The hdb market will move even faster now
Prices go further up, as Sellers feel Buyers will be having more support!
Tough situation.
[4:43 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: Unless if housing bubble or crisis
[4:43 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: It’s a lot enough
[4:43 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Microeconomics - demand and supply curve - determine prices.
If supply outgrow demand, housing prices will come down.
[4:44 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: putting immediate barriers to property market may also hurt the people who have genuine need. the most direct way now is by giving them more means to acquire.
increasing supply takes time to deliver that people cannot afford to wait
[4:45 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: Learn from Hong Kong cost of house overprice than Singapore
[4:46 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: to receive 190k means the average monthly household income is less than 1.5k, 80k from cpf housing grant, 80k from enhanced housing grant, 30k for living with parents
[4:47 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Govt ‘careful in calibrating HDB flat supply to meet demand', says Desmond Lee as Parliament rejects PSP's public housing motion.
As oversupply of BTO flats can lead to downward pressure on price.
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/govt-careful-calibrating-hdb-flat-supply-meet-demand-says-desmond-lee-parliament-rejects-psps-public-housing-motion-2102691?cid=internal_inarticlelinks_web_11022023_tdy
[4:47 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: yea.. downward pressure can impact people who are still servicing their loans.. imagine the property value drops lower than outstanding loan
[4:48 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: To be fair, the G has always throw a lot of money at the lowest income group.
If they can afford to wait to ballot for BTO, it's really a huge amount of grants
[4:53 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: [SHARE YOUR VIEWS #3] Budget 2023 – Strengthening our Social Compact
DPM and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong announced measures to strengthen our social compact. These aim to support Singaporeans’ housing aspirations, encourage marriage and parenthood, support lower-income families, seniors and platform workers.
Which are your views on these measures to strengthen our social compact?
Some of the key measures:
(1) Supporting housing aspirations
• More help for prioritized first-timers to secure BTO flats, with a focus on families with children and young married couples aged 40 and below who are buying their first home
• First-timer families buying resale HDB flats to get up to $30,000 more in CPF Housing Grants
(2) Encouraging marriage & parenthood
• Change in Working Mother’s Child Relief – Working mothers can claim fixed tax relief of up to $12,000
• Extend Baby Support Grant of $3,000
• Increase Baby Bonus Cash Gift by $3,000 and Government contributions to the Child Development Account for Singaporean children
• Increase leave provisions to help parents better manage work and caregiving commitments – double Government-paid Paternity Leave, increase in Unpaid Infant Care Leave
(3) Support for lower-income families
• Leverage ComLink to integrate delivery of social services
• $300 million ComCare Endowment Fund top-up
• KidSTART scale-up to support children born into lower-income families
(4) Support for seniors
• $500 million ElderCare Fund top-up to support subsidies for seniors who need home-based, centre-based or institutional care
• $1.5 billion MediFund top-up to strengthen the safety net for those facing financial difficulties with their medical bills
(5) Support for platform-workers
• Align CPF contribution rates of platform workers and companies with those of employees and employers over five years
ππ» https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-budget-2023-live-lawrence-wong-3268721
[4:54 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
No need to try fanciful methods to reduce housing prices.
What forgo land prices, what restrictions measures etc - will skew market forces and bring unintended economic outcomes.
Prices of housing are like any good and services - simple microeconomic principles - demand and supply determine housing prices.
It is the precise determination of what supply to fix what demand - determine the desirable price we want.
Determining how much flats and the duration of supply - to meet demand is not only a science but also an art - as we need to tamper with buyer's expectations.
The moments the government get a good grasp of these few variables - then housing price can be bring down to a level that is satisfactory to Singaporeans.
[4:54 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: A cash injection is clearly helpful, but not sustainable in the long run. Inflation and GST is increasing to cover added costs to the country we have to accept that. However, wages need to increase to manage this, rather than handouts.
We need to look at giving more opportunities for people to exploit global opportunities, to bring in more investment and modernise our approach to educating the next generation.
So while I agree with the poll, I don't think the right question is being asked.
[4:55 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Except that housing is an essential service, like electricity and water. We do regulate those industries, but leave Housing to the market? That doesn't seem right.
[4:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: [POLL 2] Which of these measures resonate with you the most? Please only select one option, and explain your choice in the chat below!
Supporting housing aspirations
Encouraging marriage & parenthood
Support for lower-income families
Support for seniors
Support for platform-workers
[4:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: good point.. it was covered here..
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/national-productivity-fund-enterprise-innovation-scheme-smes-businesses-budget-2023-3276756
funds to support R&D, IP registration, acquisition
[4:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: "(1) Supporting housing aspirations
• More help for prioritized first-timers to secure BTO flats, with a focus on families with children and young married couples aged 40 and below who are buying their first home
• First-timer families buying resale HDB flats to get up to $30,000 more in CPF Housing Grants"
I agree with these measures, but would like to see something to make housing available to buy for single people under 35.
[4:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: why? The policies and in place to encourage families
[5:00 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So determining the equilibrium price - requires the input of not only young couples who intends to marry, but also other housing needs from seniors, downgraders, PRs, foreigners etc. - to calibrate the right supply of flats at the right duration.
This will determine the right equilibrium price for HDB flats.
Look like need the help of more advanced AI to help in the projection.
[5:02 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: your number of variables are increasing hahaha
[5:02 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also need to factor in - the preservation of the values of resale flats.
[5:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Single people's taxes are basically subsidising cheaper housing for families... how is that fair for someone who is unable to find a spouse?
[5:04 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Econometrics housing model is complex - else why we need economic experts and AI experts to do such simulations and projections?
[5:04 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Unable or Unwilling? Or legally undefined?
The policy is in place to encourage Singaporean Families. You have something against that?
[5:05 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: Of course it is, and I don't disagree with you. But in the same breath you mentioned
The moments the government get a good grasp of these few variables - then housing price can be bring down to a level that is satisfactory to Singaporeans.
so i'm just commenting the variables are expanding π
[5:06 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Lets see
It won't really help if the grant just goung to sellers pocket!
They should hv done more
I was expecting this
HDB Property prices
Pausng PRs (especially Non Malaysians)
income ceiling for resale hdbs
Removal OF current cpf Rules for Resale old Hdbs
Increasing of MOP 5To 8yrs
Or SSD implementation if its sold with in 10 yrs (between 5-10yrs. Based on sale price)
Closing Loop hole of essential occupier for HDB and new ECs.
(also expecting Introduction if new grant for Young couples to give extra support to start family, similar to near parent grant.)
[5:06 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Hahaha....
Well real life is complex.
[5:08 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: And again again again multiple times i mentioned and asked reach here
How many PRS GOT PENALISED
FOR FALSE DECLARATION
HOW PR households got Noticed for Illegal subletting??
When they catching citizens who took bto and never stayed, i applaud govt,
But what about PRs
So far none got catch or prnalisedπ
[5:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +Rama: Exactly!?
[5:19 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sh Koh: It become more.afforabke with more subsidies as govt at same time is increasing supply. Best way is to bring down private ppty pricing... market land prices is one factor which raise prices in ppty.
[5:19 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: no, like I clearly said, I support that. I just don't like how single people are isolated. Why not provide 1 bed places too. I'm sure people get married just to buy a property. How does that help anyone?
[5:20 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: marginal buyer's stamp duty just pop up wef tomorrow, so I guess that targets the private property pricing
[5:25 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: They're isolated because our public housing policy is meant to encourage the formation of families.
You seem to have an issue accepting this.
[5:30 pm, 14/02/2023] +Grace: Singapore has too many bigggggg houses for foreigners haiz
[5:34 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: lol yes... if we all just agreed with everything then it wouldn't be a very useful forum!
[5:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Maybe I can say you have a problem accepting Single people want to buy homes too?
[5:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Maybe I can say I think the policy is out of date and forces Singaporean to leave the country so they can find independence.
[5:36 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: But I do appreciate you accept that this policy isolates those who don't want or can't get married.
[5:38 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: and finally, maybe I think it's weird that a foreign married couple can buy, but a single Singaporean can't.
[5:40 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Resale,. and with the same age restrictions that a Single Singaporean Has.
[5:40 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
By accurately projecting the demand and supply of housing needs - to set an acceptable equilibrium prices - will reduce the pressure on the government to give higher and higher grants.
As grants are taxpayers money.
Let market forces to curb prices - so that buyers can afford their flats - without undue burden on the government to provide grants and taxpayers to pay more tax to fund the housing needs.
[5:40 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: The policy doenst isolate them, they isolated themselves by choosing not to get married.
[5:42 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: I disagree, The fundamentals behind the policy are timeless, with the family unit being placed at the centre of policy planning.
Now can this be out of date?
[5:45 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Yes, the foreign couple can buy resale, but the single Singaporean can't
[5:45 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Single can buy at 35
[5:47 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: hahahs that's a hilarious interpretation. That's like saying a person who chooses to have a job has only got themself to blame that they don't get to spend all day with their family.
[5:48 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: I'm not criticising benefitting families. Why do you have a problem remembering that? I'm criticising that there is no option for single people to buy.
[5:49 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Yes, we are talking about single people under 35. That's the policy we are debating.
[5:49 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Anyway, I've responded to Reach about their question and made a point about the policy. No need to get into anything more about it.
[5:49 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Sorry - Can 2 PRs buy Resale? Wasnt that loophole closed years ago?
[5:50 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Apparently: https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-guides/how-do-singapore-permanent-residents-buy-a-hdb-flat-9914
[5:50 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: For those buying million dollar over housing,
Increase of 1% is pea nuts
As will be very little overall :)
So market won't cool down for this BSD INCREASE
For Hdb
I guess even demand will go higher
[5:50 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: One must SC
[5:51 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Couple PRs
Yes still can buy HDB
Its policy itself
Not loop holeπ
[5:51 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: No need
[5:52 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: PR couple after 3yrs of getting PR
Eligible for Resale HDB
Not eligible for BTO
[5:52 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: I stand corrected. I thought this was closed.
Apparently not. 2 PR can buy Resale.
[5:54 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Confirm - Resale don't need. 2 PR can buy.
[5:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: We talking about joint single scheme right?
[5:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: Or PR household?
[5:57 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/buying-a-flat/flat-and-grant-eligibility/singles
[5:57 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Noo
[5:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: PR must be family nucleus
Only married Couple can buy
[5:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Two single.(unmarried) PRs can not buy any HDB
[5:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: I saw your reply to L on singles
[5:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: So it was taken if 2 single SPR can buy resale
[5:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: yah L was making a point that 2 married PRs can buy resale before a SG single can.
[6:00 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Sorryπ
[6:00 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: No worries. Good to clarify
[6:00 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Single scheme applies to Citizens only
Now Singles going to get more grant
So i welcome it
[6:01 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: Single auto get more when married has increased in grant, cos it will be halved
[6:01 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: Why are we discriminating PRs? It is not easy to get PR. They must have contributed a lot and will continue to contribute a lot in order to become a PR. Anyway we treat them as our residents yet they are not eligible for a lot of things including, BTO, grants support packages etc. So at least let them have a rood over their head.
[6:02 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: *roof *
[6:02 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: Need to hv a certain differentiation
[6:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: Why not? They're not Singaporean. Why should they benefit?
Are you staying that the Government should treat Foreigners (PR) the same as Citizens?
There is no discrimination here.
[6:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: That's why one of my proposal was to hv income ceiling for resale
If not even how many grants not going to help lower income when competing with higher income earners
[6:04 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: They are never treated the same as citizen. Now you want to deprive them of buying resale flat?
[6:04 pm, 14/02/2023] +TD: why not?
[6:05 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: I said
PAUSE
as now Supply is super low
[6:08 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: We are all being human as long as they are become citizenship and contributions
[6:08 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: With current high rental environment, I expect more foreigners are going to leave Singapore. Perhaps Singaporean has to learn the hard way on how to cope without foreign work force. And if we got to start losing PRs, the going will definitely be even tougher
[6:09 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: The problem is only 20plus k will become citizen each year
[6:09 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: Then use AI product with upgrade skill
[6:10 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: This below i was expecting when comes to private n rental
[6:10 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Not enough people in our economy to buy our products - local business also cannot survive.
[6:10 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: For Private
1. Closing Loop hole of Part purchase (those avoiding ABSDs will face trouble)
2. Limiting Cpf usage for second Property purchase.
(They may start counting Family'S first house rather than current single person count)
3. Limiting/ implementation of strict rules about Valuations by banks
(Currently banks easily matching asking prices, some instaces diff banks difference of valuation is more than 100-200k.)
4. Wealth tax for High end luxury properties and individuals
5. Changing of TDSR calculation ..
Most likely MSR might be replacing TDSR
Purely my predictionsπ€£
[6:10 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Nothing happend
I guess they want to wait and watch
[6:12 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Overall budget when comes to housing
Dissappointed
But happy with rest of the budget
more support for Lower income
Young families
Enterprises and Workers of all ages.
[6:14 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Assume we have 5.65 million people in our country - local business can be profitable.
If we cut out foreigners and PRs - and left only 3 million Singaporeans with more than 25% old age -
1. Not enough consumers to consume local goods - business cannot survive.
2. Not enough soldiers and home team to guard our security.
3. Not enough babies to replace our population.
4. Not enough demand for our houses - our housing prices fall flat.
We all cannot survive as a Nation.
[6:18 pm, 14/02/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The minimum human critical mass is required for us to survive as a Nation.
No amount of AI or automation without physical humans - can we survive as a Nation.
Especially if our TFR replacement rate is well below 2.
If no PRs and new citizens or foreigners to supplement our low birth rate - the existence of our Nation will be call into question.
[6:20 pm, 14/02/2023] +L: Enabling a Single (under 35) Singaporean to buy a 1 bed BTO is not a suggestion to negatively impact PR. We should enable both Singaporeans and PRs to buy property, albeit in a way they gives people a fair and appropriate opportunity. PR cannot buy BTO, so already don't get the same benefits as a SC. No need to change that maybe. Perhaps we just find a way for a single person to buy a home, even just a 1 bed so they can have some independence.....
[6:21 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: We have have many low income PRs as they will not be able to survive in Singapore without government support, those above average or high income PRs are contributing to the national coffer so that the government can do more for the less privilege. Can we at least spare some thoughts for our PRs?
[6:21 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: Anyway, I am a Singaporean with many PR friends
[6:23 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Yes
But when Higher income PRs paying COVs
The lower income suffering with increasing rentals?
[6:25 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: I know many of my tenants who unable to Pay rentals now
Thinking of going back
So rental market actually scaring Foreigners including lower income PRs
This is the reality
I was expecting tax waiver
So didn't happend
I guess many will move back if rentals not controlled one way or other
[6:33 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Ask them to convert π
[6:33 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: If possible
[6:33 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Thanks for sharing your views so far!
We hope to hear more about what you think about the Budget 2023 measures! The chat will be open till 8pm.
If you have not done so already, do also respond to the two Budget polls in this chat. ππ»
[6:34 pm, 14/02/2023] +Frankie Wee: It’s great budget 2023
Thanks
[6:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: The budget really make those PR rethink about converting
[6:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +Uncle Law: Any amount is thankful. Still need to explore deeper
[6:36 pm, 14/02/2023] +Sam: I think the key contrainsts is we have limited land and we have limited supply of small flats. To make the situation worse, many elderly are downgrading/right sizing/cashing out. They are the direct competition with the single Singaporean. The question is should we allocate the mid size flat to PR family or single Singaporean? Who has better alternatives? Single who stay with parents or PRs who are renting?
[6:38 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: I am PR with many EP friends (and Singaporean friends).
Many PR and EP holders I know are struggling to afford to live in Singapore at the moment and are seriously considering leaving.
Tax rates in Singapore are generally lower than their home countries but the cost of living for foreigners is now getting too high.
Rent has increased 25% (or more) for most people and the cost of schools is now around $15-25k per year per child, plus they all have the exact same cost-of-living issues like food prices, electric prices etc. For many people I know, the economics of living in Singapore are very challenging at the moment.
[6:39 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: The limit supply is meant to be… if not house will just drop mah
[6:45 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Yes
[6:48 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Hmm even Ep can speak in this chat sound scary to me :( if EP drawing high salary can’t survive who can survive in sg :)
[6:50 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Plus if sg policy even have to take care of EP SP and all P then I don’t think it a feasible policies as we not nanny of all ppl :( are we being take for granted :(
[6:50 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: As per sph ep drawing 6000 right
[6:54 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: If bto is price as per resale in nearby area , PR can buy resale and ep can convert to pr. if EP salary is 6000 I see all is linked to each other
[6:54 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: 5.9 millions only 2.3 to 2.9 can vote . Show the figure clearly
[6:55 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Housing… with CPF you think easy to buy meh π
[6:55 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: When u open door the stress level cause a lot of singles
[6:55 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: High pay don’t have years of CPF accumulation plus grant…
[6:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Without “
[6:56 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: I don’t agree ep / pr drawing 6k
[6:57 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: U need to save
[6:57 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: If you have the skills you will get pay that much as well π
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Sg not skill Ah
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: The jobs don’t get pay so high… because they are PR/EP
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Is more they willing to do OT, or have the skills lor
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: OT consider a skill ?
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: You try OT lor…
[6:58 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: I do OT often
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: No pay
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Then change job
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Many job pay OT
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Good idea
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Even executive…
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: My side $25/hr for executive π
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: OT as per my ex boss mean not productive
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Why per hours ?
[6:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: You tell engineer don’t come back for machine break down lor
[7:00 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: OT as per my ex-non local boss mean not productive
[7:01 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Good idea :)
[7:02 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: So they not perm Ah :) quite high pay
[7:02 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Yah… we are perm job… with OT, and just monitor no need do… π€£
[7:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: Think still hiring MECH and electrician engineers
[7:03 pm, 14/02/2023] +Ken: π
[7:07 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: agree
[7:08 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: ep also have range. those 6k one really hard to survive if they have family here. those at 20k and above one, they are still pretty comfortable
[7:09 pm, 14/02/2023] +Smiley face: "What tomorrow looks like?"
Human Capital - Chasing the Stars?
[7:09 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: I can’t help u liao can only advise 6k = 2 for rent , you still have 4K
[7:10 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: U know a lot of local survive lesser than 4K
[7:10 pm, 14/02/2023] +Smiley face: Continuous contributions to CPF is one big enabler of the future for everyone...
[7:11 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: On top we still need to take care of parents . We don’t have 3 to 1 benefit
[7:11 pm, 14/02/2023] +Smiley face: Hi KL, real issue!
This inflated world will cause more division and pain among the lower wage workers. Digitisation and AI will add more to it.
Thank you.
[7:11 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: like i said, with family. each kid easily eats u up 2k per month.
[7:12 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: they also have parents, just living in different country
[7:12 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Yes
Small diff
If Ep holder kid school age
Then another2 k for schl fee goneπ
[7:12 pm, 14/02/2023] +Smiley face: New paradigm shifting...
[7:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Overall living cost increasing means
No one will be happy
Either locals or foreigners
[7:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Most Singaporean left sg to work in foreign land but left kids in local
[7:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: its just the maths game, they seems to earn more, but forced to spend more. locals seems to earn less, but supported by subsidies
[7:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: So not sure why ur kids need to study a 2k school
[7:13 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: because school charge differently
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: when u r not citizen
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: It a choice where u want to place ur kids
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: no
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: this is just neigbourhood school
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: if u talk bout international school
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Not my kid
may be ur not aware
The local schl is pretty hard to get for EP' kids
Any foreigner kid
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: tat is even more ridiculous
[7:14 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Noo
[7:16 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Not their choice π
THEY are applying local schools
But MOE not giving seats
Very very less percentage of foreigner kids are allowed in local School s
That also the criteria no one knows :)
[7:16 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Please do check out MOE Phase 3 allocation
You will get more details
ππ½
[7:16 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: I mean you can place the kids in the original country.
[7:16 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Even Local school fee is Higher for PRs and EPs nowπ
Unlike before
[7:17 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Ahhh we not aware it same last time
[7:17 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Should we have local fee as last time ?
[7:18 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: 875 per month for international student from non ASEAN countries
[7:18 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Bring ur kids to sg is a choice fyi
[7:18 pm, 14/02/2023] +Suma pamu: Many workers does that
When comes to foreign talent
This groups won't like
To retain foreign talent,along with Corporate Subisudies need to look at the individual expenditure
Ofcourse many exapts from western part of world has no issue at all
As their salaies super high
Like tech passesπ
[7:20 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: secondary at 1750
[7:20 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: JC at 2100
[7:20 pm, 14/02/2023] +Dan: Husband $3500
Wife $4500
2kids
Total household income of $8000
Is considered middle income earners?
What is the range of middle income earners? Have they become the sandwich class.
[7:24 pm, 14/02/2023] +Dan: As for the lower income earners example.
Husband $2300
Wife homemaker
2 kids.
Do u think this example is realistic given the high standard of living in singapore.
[7:27 pm, 14/02/2023] +Dan: https://whatsenough.sg/
[7:28 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: last published median income is about 5k per pax. so median household income roughly 10k
[7:28 pm, 14/02/2023] +Dan: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/reasonable-starting-point-living-wage-singapore-lkyspp-study-2230071
[7:29 pm, 14/02/2023] +Dan: The archetypes are quite disappointing.
[7:31 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: seriously? do you know if they put their kids here and spend more, means government gets to collect more gst and redistribute the wealth
[7:31 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: tuition, cca, medical
[7:32 pm, 14/02/2023] +Wai Xin: daily expenses
[7:32 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: u actually want ppl to spend here, but not to the extend of barely surviving
[7:32 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: Then how about local ?
[7:33 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: Most EPs are not going to leave their kids back in their home country. Therefore if their kids are not here they are not going to be here. If they are not here they are not paying tax in Singapore and Singapore loses that tax revenue.
[7:34 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: The average EP salary is not higher because foreigner get paid more it's because you have to have quite a senior role in order to get an EP. So if those foreigners go someone has to replace the tax revenue that they currently contribute.
[7:34 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: This one only iras can tabulate on profit and loss
[7:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: And they clearly do otherwise Singapore wouldn't have EPs
[7:35 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: lol, u dun need iras. simple scenario simulation will do
[7:40 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: The other new issue which EPs are facing is that until recently the spouse of the EP could work under a “letter of consent” from the MOM. This has now been phased out so they cannot work. This means that many EPs who were dual-income families now are not.
Most families in SG are dual income so, again, when you look at the “Household Archetypes” above, an EP earning $8000 per month has the same family income because only one person can work.
Again, I know a few that had to leave Singapore because of that change because spouse’s salary made the difference between being able to afford to live here and not.
[7:41 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: Totally get that if EPs cannot afford to live here they should go but we will then lose the tax revenue and someone will have to make it up.
[7:44 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: You are right . Cos once not profitable ppl will left sg ? Or sg have hard time ppl will left sg ? Left only local poor local :)
[7:44 pm, 14/02/2023] +KL: We need to find ways to earn as well
[7:45 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[7:47 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: well at least there is high influx of family offices, so they might offset the tax revenue from EP. but the gap of wealth will greatly widen
[7:53 pm, 14/02/2023] +typing: Family offices are subject to a different tax regime ..... That's why they want to be here!
[7:54 pm, 14/02/2023] +m6dm6n: I am sure the amount in absolute value would be comparable to cover
[7:57 pm, 14/02/2023] +RH: Glad to hear tt something is being done for first timers applying for BTO .
However, m wondering wat LW means by 'specific cases'?
Wud hope to get clarity on tt.
π
[7:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +Smiley face: 14 February, 2023
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
"What tomorrow looks like?"
Human Capital - Chasing the Stars?
Workforce
From our fresh graduates, our competent workers to the retiring Seniors, this is a vital force.
How to chase the stars of tomorrow's skillsets and at the same momentum to quicken the reskilling or upskilling that are transformable, robust and ready-made to face up to the fast and furious changes in technological breakthroughs and novel ways of conducting the future of both local and international businesses.
Children
Extending the newly born babies/ young families interventions into the next 6 years or better still into the twelve years for the needy families.
Seniors
Legislate a fairer work rules and a…
[7:59 pm, 14/02/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
=====
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