REACH 573 - What are your views on the proposed amendment to the Healthcare Services Act? How can healthcare professionals, employers and individuals work together to ensure a supportive environment for the health and wellbeing of individuals?
(SK)
29 May 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
29/5/24, 10:04 am - +REACH: *Dear contributors,*
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Megan ๐
29/5/24, 10:03 am - ~ REACH Singapore added +Yilin
29/5/24, 10:05 am - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
The Ministry of Health (MOH) had sent to all doctors on April 22 reminding them of their professional obligations when issuing medical certificates (MCs), MOH announced its plans to take regulatory action against doctors or dentists found contravening the laws governing their practices.
๐ฌ *What are your views on the proposed amendment to the Healthcare Services Act? How can healthcare professionals, employers and individuals work together to ensure a supportive environment for the health and wellbeing of individuals?*
๐ _*Enforcement against medical practitioners*_
The Ministry of Health (MOH) plans to take enforcement or regulatory action against doctors or dentists found contravening the laws governing their practices, particularly in relation to the issuance of medical certificates (MCs). This was in response to feedback about the excessive issuance of MCs, including cases of MCs being given to individuals who were not sick and to malingerers. MOH mentioned that with the advent of telemedicine, there has been an “excessive” number of MCs issued.
๐ _*Amendment to Healthcare Services Act*_
MOH announced their intention to amend the Healthcare Services Act to require that every Medical Certificate issued for a patient must include the name and medical registration number of the issuing medical practitioner. On explaining its proposed amendment to the Healthcare Services Act that will require a doctor or dentist to have “provided medical or dental care to the patient” when issuing an MC, MOH said: “The proposed new requirement will encompass any form of medical or dental care provided to the patient and is not limited by the mode in which it is provided.”
๐ _*Debate over MC issuance*_
The proposed tightening of rules on the issuance of MCs has sparked heated debate among employers and employees. Concerns have been raised about potential impacts on sick leave for genuinely ill individuals, while employers have pointed out that teleconsultations have resulted in a significant increase in MCs being issued.
๐๐ฝhttps://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/moh-will-take-action-against-doctors-dentists-who-act-unprofessionally-when-issuing-mcs
29/5/24, 10:09 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
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29/5/24, 10:27 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: What about enforcement actions against employers who refuse to honour valid MCs?
29/5/24, 10:30 am - +Yilin: Please give alternative to this "mcs" for people who need a break. Since one must currently force themselves to work regardless of stress or sleepless nights spent working. Not everyone can sustain 7am-3am. <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 10:31 am - +Frankie Wee: MOM rule MC 14 days
29/5/24, 10:32 am - +Frankie Wee: But given fake MC by doctor how can patients tell sick
29/5/24, 10:33 am - +Yilin: We currently have a culture of overwork. No time for family and exercise.
29/5/24, 10:34 am - +Frankie Wee: Then take a annual leave for break instead on MC
29/5/24, 10:34 am - +Frankie Wee: Hmm how could the doctor faulty when given need MC
29/5/24, 10:35 am - +Frankie Wee: Do employers is abuse
29/5/24, 10:35 am - +~.@: annual leave may not get approved, thus MC was used as the more reliable way
29/5/24, 10:36 am - +Frankie Wee: ๐ค
29/5/24, 10:37 am - +Frankie Wee: But this medical condition can case drownings (sleep) if don’t take MC
29/5/24, 10:37 am - +Frankie Wee: How do doctor known that patient has sick or fake
29/5/24, 10:40 am - +Frankie Wee: Either Flexible Work Arrangements is choice healthy way instead full time if they are unhappy job.
29/5/24, 10:46 am - +Frankie Wee: I think Employees unhappy job then should give attractive benefits job. Let said 1 year no take MC award $100.
29/5/24, 11:01 am - +Agent K: Frankly when they give u 60 days mc do you dare to use use finished unless hospital
29/5/24, 11:03 am - +Rama: Definitely!
29/5/24, 11:03 am - +Agent K: In my first job , we have 30 days mc but if u use 4 , (1 day mc ) literally you will have graded D or E in performance and sone company practise weeding program . It common in fact most of us even ill will need to go to work during 2012 to 2019 <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:03 am - +Rama: 14 days outpatient sick leave must be separated from 60 days hospital leave.
29/5/24, 11:04 am - +Agent K: It also co incidence with the open door policies
29/5/24, 11:05 am - +Agent K: Even we rat on company do gov dare to do anything except give a verbal warning on top ppl may face blacklist in some industry <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:05 am - +Rama: Remember the Boeing whistle blower who lost his life!
29/5/24, 11:05 am - +Frankie Wee: If never take MC leave what is employee benefit? <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:05 am - +Agent K: Really ? A real news ? Never heard of it <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:06 am - +Rama: Yes!
29/5/24, 11:06 am - +Agent K: In the end the whole team down cos I pass my flu to everyone in 2013 lol
29/5/24, 11:06 am - +Rama: Sgd120.00
29/5/24, 11:07 am - +Frankie Wee: Short manpower who can cover responsibility job
29/5/24, 11:07 am - +Frankie Wee: Why enforcement need action against doctor for given unreasonable MC who is not faulting
29/5/24, 11:08 am - +Rama: Asian employers are money driven and don't see work life balance as asset!
29/5/24, 11:08 am - +Frankie Wee: Then better choice flexible work arrangements
29/5/24, 11:09 am - +Frankie Wee: I have no idea why employees want to take too much MC
29/5/24, 11:09 am - +Rama: Will never happen
29/5/24, 11:10 am - +Rama: Football matches is one culprit!
29/5/24, 11:10 am - +Agent K: I only saw company increase to Return to office lol
29/5/24, 11:11 am - +~.@: i seen people use MC so they can go for job interviews
29/5/24, 11:11 am - +Rama: Correct!
29/5/24, 11:12 am - +Agent K: Than the company is doing a bad job .
29/5/24, 11:12 am - +Agent K: I saw ppl don’t allow ppl go for interview and wanted to force them to stay for lower pay lol
29/5/24, 11:12 am - +~.@: yea that's why annual leave will not work for this kind of situation
29/5/24, 11:13 am - +~.@: so they resort to use mc
29/5/24, 11:13 am - +Agent K: One company planned leave last year and don’t allow ppl take urgent leave
29/5/24, 11:13 am - +Agent K: Some is company allow but boss shitty
29/5/24, 11:13 am - +Frankie Wee: Then tell boss honesty salary is low and ask adjust increment
29/5/24, 11:13 am - +Agent K: Need me to named them out in here ?
29/5/24, 11:14 am - +Agent K: When mom go check later say orh got no proof leh
29/5/24, 11:14 am - +Frankie Wee: Maybe small company
29/5/24, 11:14 am - +Agent K: Mnc wor <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:15 am - +Agent K: Some even ask old ppl go using phone so left no trail
29/5/24, 11:16 am - +Agent K: Plus some ppl ( do t want to name them ) dont really dare to offend US firm . <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:17 am - +Agent K: See when company complain misuse of MC . Immediately got action using law
29/5/24, 11:17 am - +Agent K: So many unfair practise by firm no news and no justices left only to karma <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:20 am - +Poh S Lim: Unintended consequence:
Medical professionals now over react and become skeptical of people who come for MCs that they start denying MCs and a genuine case slips by, the person dies because the MC was not given. Then does the medical practitioner become liable? Some conditions may not be directly detectable and the patient just simply feels unwell… <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:20 am - +Frankie Wee: MOH will review MC reduce 14 days change to 7 days
29/5/24, 11:20 am - +Frankie Wee: ๐
29/5/24, 11:21 am - +Frankie Wee: Work balance life de stress
Part of job heavy load given reason to take MC
29/5/24, 11:22 am - +Frankie Wee: Example dishwasher stand too long hours late fell sick in period
29/5/24, 11:22 am - +Agent K: Of course not all company are bastard . I saw a company cos employee took one month mc straight cos lung infections they fine . It the mutual trust between firm and employee
29/5/24, 11:22 am - +Agent K: Of cos it very very rare are most firm are shity, and injustice <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:25 am - +Frankie Wee: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/i-hope-becomes-prevalent-practice-ong-ye-kung-employers-not-requiring-mcs-mild-conditions
29/5/24, 11:26 am - +Caleb: So far my company don't have this. Who has it?
29/5/24, 11:27 am - +Agent K: Got a US MNC can’t named it but dont misuse it also and depend on ur boss also. They also don’t have leave u want just take but must ask ur boss . Of course if u under use it ur losses also. They practise weeding program also ( last performance even u grade B when all grade A will be ask to leave ) <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 11:27 am - +Frankie Wee: I think MOM is revise
29/5/24, 11:27 am - +Caleb: Need to start from public agencies
29/5/24, 11:28 am - +Frankie Wee: Urgent emergency I had happened then reason to take MC
29/5/24, 11:30 am - +Frankie Wee: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/urgent-non-emergency-care-options-available-in-the-community
29/5/24, 11:35 am - +Frankie Wee: https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/urgent-non-emergency-care-options-available-in-the-community
29/5/24, 11:35 am - +Frankie Wee: Non-urgent
29/5/24, 11:35 am - +Frankie Wee: I had my cut but a lot blood
29/5/24, 11:36 am - +Rama: Not practical
29/5/24, 11:36 am - +Rama: Still happening
29/5/24, 11:37 am - +Rama: Digging their own grave!
29/5/24, 11:37 am - +Rama: Minimum annual leave 7 days must stop!
29/5/24, 11:42 am - +Frankie Wee: Future technology advance Ai able to read patient’s sick whether condition need MC
29/5/24, 11:43 am - +Frankie Wee: Doctor can’t professional if need MC otherwise enforcement against doctor
29/5/24, 11:49 am - +Rama: Not fool proof safe!
29/5/24, 11:54 am - +Frankie Wee: What doctor should do if MC action against by enforcement
29/5/24, 11:54 am - +Rama: Investigation by a third independent party
29/5/24, 11:54 am - +Frankie Wee: Doctor need to report employers or MOH
29/5/24, 11:55 am - +Rama: Employers will challenge via MOH if suspicious!
29/5/24, 11:55 am - +Frankie Wee: Or doctor should rejected patients need MC reason fit to work in position
29/5/24, 11:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Then employee complain report for abuse health
29/5/24, 11:56 am - +Frankie Wee: If person don’t like the job should quit themselves instead of staying company
29/5/24, 11:57 am - +Frankie Wee: Choice to change better job opportunities suited
29/5/24, 11:57 am - +Frankie Wee: Give a fake MC very bad and unlawful
29/5/24, 12:01 pm - +~.@: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 12:03 pm - +~.@: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 12:03 pm - +~.@: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 12:12 pm - +Thank You Woman: This is crap, construction worker got light duties lol ya probably be at the guard house but again every dept section had their own skills.
29/5/24, 12:14 pm - +Thank You Woman: “Compliant” doctor where and what is the stand of the “Vow” 1 injury is too many.
29/5/24, 12:14 pm - +~.@: yea.. so the unhealthy dynamics is there.
29/5/24, 12:18 pm - +Thank You Woman: Drs apologising on injecting ppl with the covid jab.
ๅงไฝไฟ่ （the starter) Now who are the one who created all these dun be over greed by $$$$$$.
Conscious must be clear! What goes around comes around๐
29/5/24, 1:21 pm - +Shobith: The challenge will be identifying what is considered as a genuine MC and what is not..
With the legislation, doctors would not want to risk anything and would want to err on the side of caution. In some ways it could mean genuine cases not being issued with MCs.
The challenge will be in avoiding such situations.
So the question is whether we have to go into legislating such measures or should take an approach which is to educate the doctors at the first place and monitoring how the situation goes prior to talking about punishments..
29/5/24, 1:22 pm - +Rama: Doctors in tie with cheating patients!?
29/5/24, 1:26 pm - +~l or Smiley face: This message was deleted
29/5/24, 1:28 pm - +~l or Smiley face: 29 May, 2024
"Personal and Professional: The Degree of Sickness and the Consequences of Judgement and Calling"
"Either you are sick, or you are feeling unwell, or you simply want a break from work...The issue of seeking medical attention and the motivations behind it is a complex and multifaceted problem, with various factors contributing to the dilemma. On one hand, some individuals may be genuinely ill or experiencing mental health issues, while on the other hand, some may be seeking a break from work or exploiting the system. The degree of sickness and the consequences of judgement and calling can have significant implications for patients, healthcare professionals, policymakers, communities, employers and unions alike."
-- anonymity
Possibilities?
First, one possible reason for this dilemma is the stigma surrounding mental health issues, which may lead individuals to seek medical attention for physical ailments instead of addressing underlying mental health concerns. Mental health is not just the absence of mental disorders, but a state of wellbeing in which every individual realises their own potential. However, the stigma surrounding mental health issues can prevent individuals from seeking help, leading to unnecessary suffering and potentially even physical symptoms.
29/5/24, 1:33 pm - +Thank You Woman: That will be abusing the law just report on them however not everyone knows and some need the job and do not dare to.
What goes around comes around.
29/5/24, 1:34 pm - +Thank You Woman: Anyway outpatient MC is only 14days
29/5/24, 1:34 pm - +Thank You Woman: There are people who are suppose to rest yet goes to work just for the yearly incentive of no MC๐คฆ♀️
29/5/24, 1:34 pm - +Rama: Must be separated 60 days hospital leave!
29/5/24, 1:37 pm - +Thank You Woman: There are ppl who work so hard (overwork) for the family and died Haiz may they RIP and hope the family recieve help๐
29/5/24, 1:40 pm - +~.@: if i remember correctly now is 14 days outpatient MC and total of 60 days including hospitalisation leave. so the latter is only 46 days
29/5/24, 1:40 pm - +~.@: there are companies who only accept public health institution MC and from their company doctor. aka other clinics don't count
29/5/24, 1:41 pm - +Rama: Separated to 14 and 60!
29/5/24, 1:41 pm - +~.@: tough luck mate. lol
29/5/24, 1:43 pm - +Darius Lee: I think the practice of issuing MCs is widely understood by society as a whole - including employees, employers, students, educational institutions, etc. It basically gives a person a right to be absent from work, school, etc., and a corresponding obligation to grant that absence.
Because of this, the MCs must be issued responsibly, and the general public relies on the medical profession to ensure this.
29/5/24, 1:43 pm - +~S.: Employers give a max MC entitlement anyway. It’s a non-issue. MOH should focus on the safety and effectiveness of medicines. It’s doing a horrible job. I was poisoned by a doctor in 2017.
29/5/24, 1:46 pm - +Rama: There are employers who expect employees to come to work if their medical leave doesn't require them to be bed ridden!
29/5/24, 1:48 pm - +Telephone no.: All this will not be an issue if falling sick or taking MC is no longer considered something frowned upon at work or decreases your 'performance'
29/5/24, 1:48 pm - +Telephone no.: Human beings can and will fall sick
29/5/24, 1:49 pm - +Rama: Both employers and employees need to work on this!
29/5/24, 1:49 pm - +Telephone no.: Employers who punish employees for falling sick with nonsensical benefits - like incentives for not taking MC or whatnot - are draconian.
29/5/24, 1:49 pm - +Rama: Agree!
29/5/24, 1:49 pm - +Telephone no.: If I have the flu and fever once or twice a year, it means I am suddenly a bad employee? That is ridiculous. Even the Prime Minister falls sick.
29/5/24, 1:50 pm - +Rama: President too!
29/5/24, 1:52 pm - +Agent K: If now if person A headaches , fall sick but doctor insist okay person go work no mc and end up dead , as long the doctor can repay with his life and civil lawsuit with be fine for me :))plus even Polyclinic have a number of doctor can’t even speak good English right <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 1:56 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Two, the pressure to meet productivity targets and the fear of being seen as weak or vulnerable may drive employees to seek medical certificates as a means of taking a break from work without admitting to burnout or stress. Burnout is not just a personal problem, but a societal one. Employers must recognise the importance of employee wellbeing and take steps to mitigate burnout, including offering flexible work arrangements and employee support programmes.
29/5/24, 2:00 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
29/5/24, 2:06 pm - +Yilin: There will be discrimination against and comparison against individuals who can and cannot take stress, mental illness in any form is already heavily weeded out by almost every company questionnaire. Right now m.i. once gotten is a life sentence with no reprieve. Employers will never hire those with m.i. It is not okay to be not okay. But the upside is the flexi work from home to be implemented in Dec 24 but this may or may not impact pay check if workload is shared.
29/5/24, 2:08 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Three, the lack of clear guidelines and protocols for issuing medical certificates and assessing patient severity can lead to inconsistent and potentially biased judgement calls by healthcare professionals. Medicine is a science, but it is also an art. While medical professionals strive for objectivity, personal biases and assumptions can influence their decisions, leading to potential misdiagnosis or misunderstanding of patients' conditions.
29/5/24, 2:08 pm - +Yilin: They have yet to look from the perspective of the employee while looking from the perspective of the employer. They haven't yet asked fully why this is happening, assumptions that people are lazy, skip work for play.
29/5/24, 2:09 pm - +Yilin: Which is more often than not, not true.
29/5/24, 2:11 pm - +Agent K: Actually think back the impacted most should be public sector as private sector too many mc they will just fire it. Till now I saw those take more than half assign mc already tio pok
29/5/24, 2:12 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Let's aim for a society where mental health is supported and struggles are met with kindness and understanding. Small steps today, a better tomorrow...
29/5/24, 2:13 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Remedies?
To address this issue, it's essential to adopt a more nuanced and compassionate approach to healthcare. This includes reducing stigma around mental health issues through awareness campaigns and education, implementing flexible work arrangements and employee support programmes to address burnout and stress, developing clear guidelines and protocols for issuing medical certificates and assessing patient severity, providing healthcare professionals with adequate training, resources, and time for patient assessments, encouraging open communication and patient engagement in the healthcare process, and fostering a culture of empathy and understanding in the workplace and healthcare settings.
29/5/24, 2:15 pm - +Andrew Ang: How about those companies using this factor as a KPI for promotion/performance bonus/incentives? Any punishment for these companies?
29/5/24, 2:23 pm - +Agent K: Should not they provide data on who complain and research and monitor before announcing? Or check with NTUC unions or Seem like someone complain to MoM and moh directly :( <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 2:29 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Real-World?
Many exxamples of successful approaches to addressing these issues include "patient-centred care models" that prioritise patient engagement and communication, mental health awareness campaigns that aim to reduce stigma and promote understanding, and guidelines for assessing and treating burnout that emphasise the importance of employee wellbeing.
"Bosses, if you don't know how to treat your workers, you might end up working until you die?"
-- anonymity
29/5/24, 2:31 pm - +Agent K: Dont worry. 90% of my ex-bosses will return to home country and live in GCB . They won’t work till die .
29/5/24, 2:32 pm - +Nic FreeholdRegarding foreign construction workers I dunno about their MC, but they are good actors and their productivity is low.
29/5/24, 2:33 pm - +Nic FreeholdUnlike the Thais who were extremely hard working and skillful
29/5/24, 2:35 pm - +~l or Smiley face: The luxurious life of GCB (Good Class Bungalow) living awaits them! Well, I hope they enjoy their golden years, surrounded by the fruits of their labor (or should I say, the labor of their former employees?). Let's just hope they don't forget the wisdom they gained from their time in the trenches: "Treat your workers well, lest you work until you die... or move to a GCB and live the high life!"...
29/5/24, 3:28 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR* from you!
๐ฌ *What are your views on the proposed amendment to the Healthcare Services Act? How can healthcare professionals, employers and individuals work together to ensure a supportive environment for the health and wellbeing of individuals?*
We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan ๐
29/5/24, 3:31 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Integrity is the value that must be upheld regardless of whatever circumstances.
Else system will fall apart.
2. Doctors and health institutions must have medical ethics - to check and verify if the patients are really sick and need MC to get well - before they issue MC.
This is regardless of whether :-
a. Under pressure by Bosses to press doctors not to issue MC or issue less MC - because a Doctor that swear in Hippocratic Oath - Doctors must have the right moral and medical ethics to ensure their patients get the right treatment and get well. If the patients require rest to get well, Doctors must issue MCs.
b. However, if the patients are suspected to be malingerers - then Doctors must not issue MCs - these is a basic Integrity value.
It is easy to check if the patients are malingerers or not - because a patient cannot fake sore throat, cough, phlegm, running nose, throat infection etc - because a check by doctors will discover if the patients are really sick or fake.
3. For bosses, it is imperative that they must not drive workers like a slave and insist on too many OTs in which workers have no sufficient rest.
Bosses must be able to provide some flexibility to allow workers to have sufficient rest - and not push workers to the point that workers have to resort to rely on MCs to get rest.
Else it will be a high time for workers to consider changing jobs - not to subject to the unreasonable demands from unreasonable bosses.
4. With Flexible Work Arrangement underway, the above Integrity values must be set right - so that there are trust among doctors, health institutions, workers and bosses.
Else whatever good system will fall apart - if all the actors are not able to act with Integrity.
29/5/24, 3:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: How to have good care and service when the hospital and polyclinic outsource their front officers and their services to be best in Price to save cost. Paying monkeys to expect them to care for the patients
29/5/24, 3:41 pm - +Rama: Yup!
29/5/24, 3:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: True
29/5/24, 3:42 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Some of the outsource companys" biz model is to employ the Old and sickly to.do such Jobs and hope for the best
29/5/24, 3:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Working healthy balance 8hrs per day
29/5/24, 3:43 pm - +Rama: Yes
29/5/24, 3:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: 1 hr and 15 mins break time
29/5/24, 3:44 pm - +~SQ: Is this MC issue so critical that govt need to spend so much time on this. What about other aspect of health care like taking 7 to 8 month just to get an appointment for a specialist visit for govt hospitals
Or having med grad 1-2 yrs of exp as specialist and charging public a high amount
29/5/24, 3:46 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. As customers, we also must be reasonable - and not push our rights to the maximum limits - and exert undue pressure onto others that are servicing us.
2. For eg. I whatsapp a customer service officer for a service a couple of days. I notice that this officer did not check her handphone for a week.
3. Hence, I whatsapp another backup officer. The backup officer inform me that she is on leave and she can help me.
But she is on course for 2 days.
The 2nd day will end in the morning and she will be back in office by noon.
4. On the 1st day of training, she say she will complete the course in late afternoon and can rush back to office after the course to perform the transaction for me.
I told her no need to rush, and enjoy her course. Can do for me the next day.
She is appreciative and say the officer will be back the 2nd day in the morning and can help me if I need the transaction to be done by morning.
5. On the 2nd day, I notice that the officer didn't respond to my whatsapp and I inform the backup officer.
The backup officer upon finish her course, immediately went back to office at about 1 pm and then complete the transaction for me - that take about 4 hours.
6. So you see, even if I have my full rights as customer - I should display flexibility not to push my rights to the maximum and exert undue pressure on the officers - and make unnecessary stress to the officers.
The moment the officer can respond - they do a good job for the customer - and they do it at the bottom of their heart.
ไธไบบ่ฎฉไธๆญฅ， ไธไบๅฅฝ็ธๅค。
(Each one let go one step, everything easy to resolve).
7. Whether as boss, whether as workers, whether as customers --- if everyone can empathise and think on behalf of the other parties as well as your own interest ---- everything can be resolve in a "Win-Win outcome".
No need to push thing too hard - and insist "Our rights is King" - "Boss right is King". "Customer rights is King" --- this is a "bullshit philosophy --- and must not emulate".
29/5/24, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Agree
29/5/24, 4:00 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
29/5/24, 4:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Who work in MOE as teacher
29/5/24, 4:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: They enjoy school holiday
29/5/24, 4:09 pm - +Thank You Woman: Hm recall there was once a twins, 1 is Dr the other is not and the siblings uses the other to work in Singapore as a doctor now who should answer for this think obviously MOH
29/5/24, 4:16 pm - +JkL: Totatlly agree on this. it really too long
29/5/24, 4:20 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I think anyone who contravenes law or unethical practice should be warned and if needed removed. Hope they are doing based on evidence rather than anecdotal statements or hearsay. My own experience, Bad employers/leaders don't want their.staff to take MC whereas the good ones allow time off and mc because they care for the staff welfare and inspire their staff to work effectovly
29/5/24, 4:23 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Our manager doesn't care what we do as long as we deliver production. We take MC because we're sick or need rest
29/5/24, 4:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: Willing to take Pressure job
29/5/24, 4:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: High pay and pressure <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 4:24 pm - +Rama: 24/7 on call!
29/5/24, 4:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: I won’t take
Because near future everything is going change new development
29/5/24, 4:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: Old will disposal position
29/5/24, 4:25 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I take because it's fun but depends on the Boss. Micromanaging or hands off
29/5/24, 4:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: Health is matter balance working and less than MC
29/5/24, 4:25 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Employer Perspectives?
Employee absences can cost businesses around S$10,000 to S$15,000 est. per year per employee. Employers must recognise that employee wellbeing is crucial to productivity and retention. By supporting employees' mental and physical health, employers can reduce absenteeism and improve overall business performance.
Work-Life Balance and the Four-Day Work Week?
The four-day work week can help employees recharge and attend to personal matters, leading to improved productivity and reduced absenteeism. Employers who adopt flexible work arrangements and prioritise employee wellbeing can reap the benefits of a healthier and more productive workforce. In fact, implementing flexible work arrangements can result in cost savings of around S$5,000 est. to S$10,000 est. per employee per year.
29/5/24, 4:26 pm - +Frankie Wee: 14 days = excellent
10 days = good
5 days = poor performance job
29/5/24, 4:27 pm - +Andrew Ang: Can't be this way to judge
29/5/24, 4:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Boss observe performance on too much MC and unpaid leave considering is bad
29/5/24, 4:28 pm - +Andrew Ang: Those workers without MC are they able to produce the results? Let alone, they might be passing by day by day
29/5/24, 4:28 pm - +~SQ: ๐..but taking mc definitely will affect performance somehow. Unless boss likes the peroson/bootlicker
29/5/24, 4:28 pm - +Agent K: No ah
0 = okay
1 = not okay
2 = really not okay
3 = something wrong
4 = please sent Hr
29/5/24, 4:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Boss also stress who can cover job
29/5/24, 4:29 pm - +~SQ: Some boss jiak zua also
29/5/24, 4:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: Boss more of overall unhealthy even smoking and drinking
29/5/24, 4:29 pm - +~SQ: Haha esp those boss with no kpi, no survival pressure ๐คฃ
29/5/24, 4:30 pm - +Agent K: They will say they scarified to help get business lol but they talk nothing about business except travel and hometown lol
29/5/24, 4:30 pm - +Andrew Ang: Smoking ten minutes. Toilet break 15mins. Tea break 20mins One whole day how many breaks?
29/5/24, 4:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: Minister all in parliament never take MC
29/5/24, 4:31 pm - +Rama: Frowned upon if do so and loose incentives!?
29/5/24, 4:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: Few Sleep in parliament
29/5/24, 4:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Earlier in 1990 operations product people willing to work 12 hrs shit
29/5/24, 4:32 pm - +Andrew Ang: Sleep in parliament. Never sound out the real issues. Productive?
29/5/24, 4:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: They earn more OT even they don’t good education level
29/5/24, 4:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Boss not experienced in managing. He should be able to do the job or have backups
29/5/24, 4:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: Then why did not they think themselves health too tired yet to attending
29/5/24, 4:35 pm - +Andrew Ang: We should nurture a good working ethic and environment. Not a dog eat dog world out there. Singapore likes to follow the nation of mother conflict. But is this the correct path?
29/5/24, 4:35 pm - +Jimmy Chew: If you produced I don't care. If you don't then I coach you if can't perform you would wanna leave hahaha
29/5/24, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Basic $800 and join get bonus $2000
29/5/24, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: lol
29/5/24, 4:36 pm - +Jimmy Chew: It all depends on leader. Look at Trump he president everyone behaves like him
29/5/24, 4:37 pm - +Andrew Ang: We have too MOP which is "sleeping". Choose wisely. Do we need an event / infrastructure MOP to do the job?
29/5/24, 4:37 pm - +Jimmy Chew: They want to attend but the state didn't allow them ๐คฃ
29/5/24, 4:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mind and body thinking wanted to work follow up SOP yet never bother tried and sleepless. Otherwise will become poor healthy
29/5/24, 4:38 pm - +Andrew Ang: This depends on upbringing. When Mr Thaman won, we did see something in our neighborhood, didn't we?
29/5/24, 4:38 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Bro. How many times they are awake versus sleeping ๐คฃ
29/5/24, 4:39 pm - +Andrew Ang: Here is like a first world country but people are behaving like third world people
29/5/24, 4:39 pm - +Jimmy Chew: How do you know? Really,? They don't show up hahaha
29/5/24, 4:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: parliament are politicians and self integrity more acknowledge in body of government and strictly over work
29/5/24, 4:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: https://www.yourtango.com/self/workers-share-moments-knew-time-find-new-job
29/5/24, 4:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Stressed
29/5/24, 4:42 pm - +Andrew Ang: Aiya, politicians are chosen from the start. Whether they are able to perform, time will tell. A scholar is not the best medicine for the country. We have too many examples...
29/5/24, 4:42 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Maybe COVID create the I don't care attitude
29/5/24, 4:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Care and thoughtfulness
29/5/24, 4:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Without we will death infection level go up
29/5/24, 4:44 pm - +Agent K: This remind me when I go see doctor last year even I got Covid , the doc won’t want to test and they just want the money 100 over dollar for basic medicine ( no antibiotics ) just 3 medicine at sin Min area <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 4:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: Covid-19 forever non-compulsory
29/5/24, 4:45 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Healthcare Provider Perspectives?
Healthcare professionals are overworked and understaffed, leading to burnout and compassion fatigue. Healthcare organisations must prioritise provider wellbeing, offer resources for managing stress and burnout, and foster a culture of support and collaboration. The cost of burnout and turnover among healthcare professionals is estimated to be around S$20,000 to S$50,000 est. per person per year.
29/5/24, 4:46 pm - +~SQ: Hire more ppl or optimise some processes ๐ see our Overstrained public hospitals and polyclinics
29/5/24, 4:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: Parliament will be use Ai assist and de stress workload and short time
29/5/24, 4:47 pm - +Andrew Ang: This one is overrated. The waiting time in poly clinics is too long even with appointments
29/5/24, 4:48 pm - +Andrew Ang: We can have a dietician, care manager, counsellor, etc in a polyclinic. But are they serving the queue?
29/5/24, 4:48 pm - +~SQ: Yeah then may have a possibility that doc do a quick appt, patient say what symptoms doctor just agar and issue mc
29/5/24, 4:49 pm - +Andrew Ang: Just don't repeat what south Korea has experienced.
29/5/24, 4:52 pm - +Yilin: A.i.
29/5/24, 4:53 pm - +Agent K: But why last time no issue now Singaporean population got lesser got mc issue ?
29/5/24, 4:53 pm - +Frankie Wee: Human is a soul
Robot is a machine
Two are different on productive
29/5/24, 4:54 pm - +~SQ: Yeah so the govt need to look into why these doctor anyhow issue mc.. is it no time for appointment/heavy workload ? And then resolve it from the root
29/5/24, 4:54 pm - +~SQ: Think they targeting telemedicine . But actually how much percentage of consultations are via telemed.
29/5/24, 4:58 pm - +Agent K: I thgt South Korea protest is cause Korean to sharply increase medical school admissions and the number of physicians in the country. Thus lower the money and elitism of doctor in SK ? Not really related to overwork
29/5/24, 5:00 pm - +Andrew Ang: Aiya, it's a matter of presumption. COVID-19 period leh. How come last time don't catch?
29/5/24, 5:04 pm - +Jimmy Chew: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 5:04 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Lawrence Wong is on board. So must show some workings
29/5/24, 5:04 pm - +~SQ: U might be right ๐๐๐
29/5/24, 5:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: He will make way policy
29/5/24, 5:15 pm - +Yilin: Hope so. A very famous former lawyer died of kidney failure. Overworked. Sg govt should create a corporate culture where no employee stays beyond 7pm. Work smart and not long hours should be the key. Effectiveness using A.I prompting is key.
29/5/24, 5:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: In future Singapore no more MC benefit because we will new development
29/5/24, 5:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Look what I don’t know AI something is new
29/5/24, 5:17 pm - +Rama: Including our elected politicians!
29/5/24, 5:20 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Further Thoughts:
"Till the day where robot Doctor arrives...!"
-- anonymity
Spotting Doctors?
To tackle the issue of doctors issuing medical certifications too easily, a practical approach would be to implement a standardised certification process with clear criteria and guidelines. This could include using templates or checklists to ensure consistency, regular audits and peer reviews to monitor certification patterns, and ongoing education and training for doctors on ethical practices and certification protocols. Additionally, healthcare organisations and employers can establish clear consequences for violating certification guidelines and incentivise doctors to adhere to ethical standards. By streamlining the certification process and promoting accountability, we can reduce the incidence of fraudulent certifications and ensure that medical leave is used legitimately.
Spotting Patients?
Faking sick can have costly and harmful consequences for individuals and organisations alike. To tackle this issue, it's crucial to know how to identify it. Look out for inconsistent symptoms or behaviour, such as a colleague who frequently calls in sick with vague complaints or takes extended breaks. Be wary of patterns of absences, like regularly taking Mondays or Fridays off. Pay attention to individuals who prioritise getting a medical certificate over receiving actual care. Verify symptoms and medical history, and watch for contradictions or exaggerations. By being aware of these signs and taking proactive steps, we can implement flexible working arrangements to reduce stress and increase work-life balance, provide access to employee assistance programme (EAP) for mental health support, encourage open communication and report suspicious cases, develop clear policies and procedures for managing absenteeism, and foster a culture of honesty and support, creating healthier and more productive work environments.
29/5/24, 5:22 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Doctor:
Standardise, Streamline, Accountable (SSA)
Patient:
Patterns, History, Program (PHP)
29/5/24, 5:25 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Applicable to other types CHEATING circumstances or compromising situations !
29/5/24, 5:31 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Policy Perspectives?
Policymakers must prioritise funding for mental health services, workforce development, and resources to support healthcare providers. Future policies should focus on integrating mental health into primary care, increasing funding for mental health services, and implementing flexible work arrangements. Investing in mental health initiatives can result in a return on investment of around S$5 est. to S$7 est. for every S$1 est. spent.
Union Perspectives?
Unions can negotiate for mental health support and resources, provide education and training, and advocate for policy changes that promote work-life balance and reduce workload. By standing with employees and advocating for their rights, unions can help create a more supportive and equitable work environment. Negotiating for mental health support and resources can result in cost savings of around S$1,000 est. to S$5,000 est. per employee per year.
29/5/24, 5:32 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Hi Andrew...hope things are well over at your end....
29/5/24, 5:33 pm - +Yilin: I look forward to the sg govt future announcements on how we can get funding for projects that require teamwork. This would be the ultimate way to start a company without crowdfunding limitations! Also grouping together based on interest is more productive. (Just aside)
29/5/24, 5:33 pm - +Rama: Yes but trying to communicate and work at the same time.
29/5/24, 5:34 pm - +~l or Smiley face: United States:
The US has a complex healthcare system, and the issue of seeking medical attention is often tied to insurance coverage and financial burden. Employers can play a crucial role in supporting employee wellbeing by offering comprehensive health insurance and employee assistance programs. The four-day work week and flexible work arrangements are becoming increasingly popular, with companies like Amazon and Google leading the way.
29/5/24, 5:34 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Great to know that you are multi tasking well ! Cheers!
29/5/24, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Believe UK is as bad if not worse!
29/5/24, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Likewise
29/5/24, 5:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: More than
29/5/24, 5:35 pm - +~l or Smiley face: China:
China has a rapidly changing healthcare landscape, with a growing recognition of the importance of mental health. Employers are starting to offer employee assistance programs and mental health support, but there is still a long way to go in reducing stigma and increasing awareness. The four-day work week is not yet widely adopted, but some companies are starting to offer flexible work arrangements to attract and retain top talent.
29/5/24, 5:35 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Hi Frankie!
European Countries:
In Europe, there is a strong emphasis on work-life balance, and many countries have implemented policies like flexible work arrangements, generous parental leave, and mental health support. For example, Germany's "Kurzabeit" policy allows employees to reduce their working hours during times of crisis, while Sweden's "Flexibel Arbetstid" policy gives employees the right to flexible working hours. These policies can help reduce stress and improve overall wellbeing.
29/5/24, 5:36 pm - +~l or Smiley face: and lastly,...
ASEAN:
In ASEAN countries like Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand, there is a growing recognition of the importance of employee wellbeing and mental health. Employers are starting to offer flexible work arrangements, employee assistance programs, and mental health support, but there is still a need for greater awareness and education. The four-day work week is not yet widely adopted, but some companies are starting to offer flexible work arrangements to attract and retain top talent.
29/5/24, 5:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: I heard UK defence force short manpower and policy not go well.
29/5/24, 5:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hopefully
29/5/24, 5:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.todayonline.com/news/explainer-national-service-uk-british-pm-sunak-youth-national-unity-2430346
29/5/24, 5:38 pm - +~l or Smiley face: Not the final, yet (later lagi longer essay...)
In progress?
As we bring together the various threads of this complex issue, it becomes clear that seeking medical attention and the motivations behind it involve a multifaceted array of factors that extend far beyond mental health. To create a truly supportive healthcare system, we must address the underlying drivers of this dilemma, including stigma, productivity pressures, and lack of clear guidelines, while also learning from examples around the world. This requires a comprehensive and compassionate approach that prioritises physical and mental health, addresses social determinants, respects cultural and personal beliefs, and ensures access to quality healthcare. By doing so, we can build a healthier society that values the wellbeing of all individuals and promotes a culture of care and understanding. "To each their own story, may we listen with empathy and understanding."
29/5/24, 5:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: He want follow like Singapore NS
29/5/24, 5:40 pm - +Rama: Why only now!?
29/5/24, 5:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 5:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Feeling so little
29/5/24, 5:46 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. I support MOH legislating the HealthCare service act - to ensure the medical doctors and institutions upheld the Integrity. That's issue MC only upon examining the patients and ensure they are really sick before issuing MC. Else they will be help liable.
2. Ensure bosses do not correlate the performance appraisal to the number of MCs taken. Performance should only be tie to actual performance. MOM may have to step in to ensure this.
3. Workers must be genuine sick and not malinger - else will be held accountable for their actions.
This will be the only way to ensure all our system integrity are intact.
29/5/24, 5:59 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This is to clean up all the hanky panky in the system:-
1. Whether in the medical institutions that issue MC without examination.
2. Bosses who exploits workers and slave drive.
3. Workers who malingers.
This is to ensure Singaporeans and residents inherit the right values and integrity - to ensure we are a trusted places for business and reassure investors - not a place of hanky panky.
In the light of flexible work arrangements - this values must be reinforced and upheld.
Else the flexible work arrangements - will become a source of discontention. <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 6:00 pm - +Yilin: Yes, one psychologist who wrote a book, can't remember who, he gave statistics as sg with most number of affairs in asian countries.
29/5/24, 6:01 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Can provides source?
29/5/24, 6:01 pm - +Yilin: I cant remember who, but he gave a talk on his book.
29/5/24, 6:02 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Then he has to substantiate his fact.
29/5/24, 6:03 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
It means that Singapore families many are broken families.
And this is obviously not true.
29/5/24, 6:08 pm - +Yilin: He is western author, yes, we should have asked him there n then. <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 6:08 pm - +Yilin: It was a talk, given
29/5/24, 6:09 pm - +Yilin: Many years ago though
29/5/24, 6:09 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
He could have been taken to task if he can't substantiate with facts.
Eg. Number of divorce cases.
Private investigator evidence etc.
Singapore divorce cases is not the highest in Asia or the world.
29/5/24, 6:14 pm - +Yilin: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cheating-brings-pain-but-many-dont-split-up ( I can only find this)
29/5/24, 6:14 pm - +Yilin: https://sg.style.yahoo.com/news/adultery-unprepared-among-real-reasons-marriages-singapore-fail-lawyers-073716888.html
29/5/24, 6:15 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Versus Asian countries?
29/5/24, 6:15 pm - +Yilin: (these are the only ones I found)
29/5/24, 6:16 pm - +Yilin: I guess he (western author) decided to "shock" the room
29/5/24, 6:16 pm - +Yilin: ๐คจ
29/5/24, 6:18 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:19 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:19 pm - +Yilin: https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/16-most-adulterous-countries-in-the-world-1165831/
29/5/24, 6:19 pm - +Yilin: singapore durex survey no. 5 <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 6:19 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore divorce not rated highest in Asia.
29/5/24, 6:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I thought Amazon has low pay, no work life balance and bad management? I heard the monitor workers keystrokes and toilet time and time away from desk? Googles seems more acceptable because they Employ the best and dedicated workers? Do correct me if I am wrong
29/5/24, 6:22 pm - +~l or Smiley face: "Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success."
-- Henry Ford
Who's the Champions of the course?
1. Healthcare providers
2. Employers
3. Insurance companies
4. Government agencies
5. Professional organizations
6. Patient advocacy groups
To mitigate medical certification cheats, a multi-faceted approach is necessary, involving various stakeholders.
Healthcare providers can implement robust verification processes for medical certificates, use digital certificates with secure authentication, and regularly audit and monitor certification patterns.
Employers can develop clear policies and consequences for fraudulent certifications, offer employee assistance programs (EAPs) and mental health support, and foster a culture of honesty and open communication.
Insurance companies can collaborate with healthcare providers to detect fraudulent claims and implement robust fraud detection systems.
Government agencies can establish and enforce regulations for medical certification, provide resources for healthcare providers and employers to combat fraud.
Professional organizations can develop and promote ethical guidelines for medical certification, educating members about the consequences of fraudulent certifications.
Patient advocacy groups can also play a crucial role in promoting honest healthcare practices.
By working together, these stakeholders can help reduce medical certification fraud and promote a culture of honesty and integrity in healthcare. That's it, WE COLLABORATE !
29/5/24, 6:23 pm - +Jimmy Chew: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/25/study-amazons-focus-on-speed-surveillance-drives-worker-injuries.html#:~:text=Nearly%2070%25%20of%20Amazon%20employees,and%20treatment%20of%20warehouse%20employees.
29/5/24, 6:23 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This study is more credible.
29/5/24, 6:25 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Don't know what institution is this?
29/5/24, 6:27 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:41 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This is to ensure no one abuse the flexible work arrangements.
Every one, every system must play the right ball.
Anyone caught abusing the system - should be taken to task.
29/5/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
29/5/24, 6:50 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Starts from the core values ingrained in our children. Takes a village to raise a child. If village is cannibals,. we're going to eat each other hahaha. It's the.core values <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 6:52 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Why do doctors do unethical mc giving for telemedicine? My assumptions. Are they local doctors? Did they cheat in school, their housemanship, Sense of power, benovalencr etc not so easy to find root cause <This message was edited>
29/5/24, 6:54 pm - +Nic FreeholdDoctors have to study very long hours and years. I don’t think they would give MC anyhow
29/5/24, 6:54 pm - +Rama: Disagree
29/5/24, 6:55 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Agree then what happened?
29/5/24, 6:55 pm - +Jimmy Chew: What made it a concern?
29/5/24, 6:57 pm - +Nic FreeholdYou mentioned they are unethical
29/5/24, 6:57 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha because of a few the rest have to suffer
29/5/24, 6:57 pm - +Nic Freehold:-Unethical is a serious word for SMC
29/5/24, 6:58 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Nope I assume because of the complaints of too many mc from telemedicine
29/5/24, 6:58 pm - +~l or Smiley face: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:59 pm - +~l or Smiley face: <Media omitted>
29/5/24, 6:59 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
29/5/24, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
===
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