REACH 551 - What are your thoughts on Singapore’s continued delivery of aid to help the civilians in Gaza?
(SK)
15 Mar 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
15/3/24, 10:40 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
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15/3/24, 10:42 am - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢
On Tuesday (15 Mar), the Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that Singapore will deliver its third tranche of humanitarian assistance for Gaza via Jordan. Minister for Foreign Affairs Vivian Balakrishnan will make a working visit to Amman, Jordan from Saturday to Sunday (16 – 17 March) to hand over the aid in cooperation with the Jordanian government. The RSAF will also deploy a C-130 to stay on in Jordan to conduct humanitarian airdrop operations with support from the Jordanian Armed Forces.
💬 *What are your thoughts on Singapore’s continued delivery of aid to help the civilians in Gaza?*
Minister Vivian's visit "reaffirms Singapore’s strong ties with partners in the Middle East, which have allowed us to deliver effective and timely humanitarian aid to civilians in Gaza", said MFA.
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong also wrote to Jordan's King Abdullah II to convey the Singapore government’s appreciation to the Jordanian government for facilitating the delivery of the country's aid to Gaza.
"Given the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza, the international community should work together to alleviate the suffering and save as many innocent lives as possible." "Singapore will do what it can to help the civilians in Gaza," said PM Lee.
PM Lee also said that Singapore continues to appreciate King Abdullah's active leadership in seeking a resolution to the longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"We believe that a negotiated two-state solution, consistent with relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions, is the only viable option to achieve a comprehensive, just and durable peace between Israelis and the Palestinians." "The way forward will be more challenging than ever, but we cannot lose hope," said PM Lee.
👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-delivers-third-tranche-of-aid-to-gaza-rsaf-to-conduct-airdrops
👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singapore-gaza-humanitarian-assistance-rsaf-airdrop-jordan-4196956
15/3/24, 10:42 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
15/3/24, 10:44 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
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15/3/24, 10:45 am - +Rama: Don't agree with a two state solution! Palestine is actually Jordan!
15/3/24, 10:50 am - +Rama: Aid is being dictated by terrorist all along the distribution line!
15/3/24, 10:51 am - +Landon: So you support the invasion operation "Al-Aqsa Flood" that occurred on the 7th of October by both militants associated with Hamas and the Palestinians that were involved in the attacks of Israeli settlements? <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 10:51 am - +Sunny: 100% in support of Singapore sending aid going towards the horrific situation in Gaza. However, there can still be a few improvements.
> There have been reports from US media about american airdrops of humanitarian aid actually killing Palestinians because it's literally dropping on them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/08/gaza-aid-airdrop-kills-civilians-when-parachute-fails-to-open-witness-says
I think this was because of a faulty parachute, but it is something that the army should be mindful of when conducting the same method of humanitarian aid. It may not be a good public look (if that's a consideration), but as long as proper care is given, all and any help is appreciated.
> The language around the "Israel-Hamas" conflict really has to change. As much as Singapore prioritises its diplomacy, there is a line that our government and/or politicians should have with regards to standing up to some basic humanitarian principles. It doesn't change anything but it is a matter of character.
Just my two cents
15/3/24, 10:51 am - +Rama: I whole heartedly support Israel right to self defence.
15/3/24, 10:52 am - +Sunny: But is there no line of when self-defence goes too far that it is no longer self-defence?
15/3/24, 10:52 am - +Thank You Woman: So it will be using the tax payer 💰?
15/3/24, 10:53 am - +Jimmy Chew: Red ants attack us and we are to feed them. No one complains about Ukraine 🤣
15/3/24, 10:53 am - +Landon: We don't know those parachutes and manifests belong to Singapore.
It could very well belong to other countries.
We need clarity from the Singapore government on how our aid is being delivered and deployed?
Are we sending our soldiers directly to the front lines to provide humanitarian aids or are we randomly dropping cargo hopping the right people picked them up.
15/3/24, 10:53 am - +Thank You Woman: Hope not otherwise I do not understand why can save peanuts on medical insurance for citizen yet spend on other citizen
15/3/24, 10:54 am - +Thank You Woman: Taylor swift 16M😱 vs the medical 🤔
15/3/24, 10:54 am - +Landon: Yes, do you support Israeli response towards execution and torture of civilians, especially women and children? <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 10:56 am - +Thank You Woman: 阿弥陀佛
15/3/24, 10:56 am - +Landon: This is an English platform, please communicate in English.
15/3/24, 10:56 am - +Rama: There is for Israel!
15/3/24, 10:57 am - +Rama: Say the same for hamas and hizbollah on behalf of Iran!?
15/3/24, 10:57 am - +Thank You Woman: Amitabha 🙏
15/3/24, 10:58 am - +Rama: No absolute control at receiving end!
15/3/24, 10:58 am - +Landon: Iran isn't part of this debate.
15/3/24, 10:58 am - +Landon: This is purely about receiving aid from Singapore.
15/3/24, 10:58 am - +Rama: It is financing terrorism in the occupied territories, Lebanon, west bank and gaza strip!
15/3/24, 10:59 am - +Rama: No
15/3/24, 10:59 am - +Sunny: So how does that affect the aid that Singapore gives to Gaza?
15/3/24, 11:00 am - +Rama: Like I said, aid off every truck is always intercepted by hamas at the receiving end!
15/3/24, 11:01 am - +Landon: Always?
Please cite your evidence.
15/3/24, 11:02 am - +Sunny: How do you know it's always? Especially if we are working with and through Jordan, a 'local' on the scene where the people probably know the more secure channels to deliver aid to. In any case, even if one child receives help, I'm 100% for this. The only alternative based on your comment is that Singapore does _nothing_.
I should clarify that I 100% do not support funding terrorism by any metric. It is a discussion of the risk vs aid given to people. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 11:03 am - +Rama: Quality of the aid is equally important and not just the aid itself.
15/3/24, 11:04 am - +Sunny: that's an interesting thought actually. I would assume the quality is solely based on what Singapore gives
15/3/24, 11:04 am - +Rama: Follow social media post from Palestinian people themselves.
15/3/24, 11:05 am - +Thank You Woman: How true?
15/3/24, 11:06 am - +Rama: Search and find
15/3/24, 11:07 am - +Rama: That's how propaganda works well for sympathetic blind aid donors.
15/3/24, 11:10 am - +Thank You Woman: 人在做天在看（whatever we do God/Buddha sees and know) our True heart was purely out to help the people. Same thing to help people able to seek private medical assistance well.
So long as what we did is out of 善（empathy/good) good things will come. Law of attraction, do good and good will come to you.
Prison and Hell is for criminal (people who do bad)
15/3/24, 11:13 am - +Jimmy Chew: Yes. God/Buddha don't want us to be blind and foolish too. But to act with wisdom. 😔
15/3/24, 11:14 am - +Jimmy Chew: Sometimes I wonder if these people really believe in God? Kill, rape and torture?
15/3/24, 11:14 am - +Jimmy Chew: Hope our government is wise and do the right thing
15/3/24, 11:31 am - +Thank You Woman: Those who do bad will have their KARMA just wait and see Japan is a very good living example 🙏. The karma receive by their next generation 🥲🙏
15/3/24, 11:35 am - +Rama: Believe is one thing. Living it out, us another
15/3/24, 11:36 am - +Rama: What goes around, comes around! You reap what you sow!
15/3/24, 12:00 pm - +Thank You Woman: Nothing but the truth 👍🙏
15/3/24, 12:17 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Budget 2022: Healthcare spending to form bulk of increase in social expenditures by 2030 - $27 billion. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/budget-2022-healthcare-spending-to-form-bulk-of-govt-expenditure-by-2030
15/3/24, 12:18 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
15/3/24, 12:25 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Healthcare costs form one of the largest component in Singapore fiscal budget a whooping $27 billions projected in 2030.
2. It is not peanut.
3. If our government don't manage our healthcare costs carefully and let it run like a buffet syndrome, soon Singapore will have no budget for GST voucher, no budget for defense, no budget to support Singaporeans job, no budget to build coast line defense that will flood the Singapore etc.
So Singaporeans look at the whole budget and decides for yourself.
Allow healthcare costs to be abused by a privilege few, or use it wisely - so that all Singaporeans can live and survive well taken care of in every aspects of our lives.
Managing the healthcare costs well is as important as managing our reserves well - so that it will not be abused by some ignorant people - and bankrupt our nation.
When I literally say, don't bankrupt our nation, I literally mean it - by just looking objectively at the cost of healthcare!
15/3/24, 12:26 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
15/3/24, 12:26 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
15/3/24, 12:29 pm - +Liang Wei: https://www.todayonline.com/explainer-why-singapore-medical-association-and-private-insurers-locked-battle-over-integrated-shield-plans
15/3/24, 12:31 pm - +Liang Wei: May be good to take a look at every piece of the "cost supply chain"
15/3/24, 12:31 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Another thing, Minister of Youth had clarify government don't spend $16 million as grant for Taylor Swift concert.
It is about $2 million to $4 million - but bring a multiplier effect of $300 million or more to the economy through circular flow of income.
It is not mindless spending, but in effect a shrew government spending , an injection into the economy that bring massive economic growth.
15/3/24, 12:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
"Taylor Swift’s concerts expected to boost Singapore’s GDP as economists upgrade growth forecast: Report.
One economist expects Taylor Swift's concerts to add around S$300 million to S$400 million to Singapore's economy in the first quarter."
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/taylor-swift-concerts-boost-singapore-economy-gdp-growth-forecast-4186226#:~:text=Taylor%20Swift%E2%80%99s%20concerts,the%20first%20quarter.
15/3/24, 12:32 pm - +Liang Wei: Solution may be managing every piece of the "cost supply chain" a bit better.
15/3/24, 12:34 pm - +Rama: Same for upcoming deep purple rock concert!?
15/3/24, 12:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
100% medical coverage feed buffet syndrome and people being greedy and reckless - will abuse it.
This is the ugly side of human nature.
Government making policy must first address this headon - by inducing co-payment so that people feel the pinch and will only use it when necessary, and use it responsibly.
This is human nature.
Government must tackle it from a psychological angle first. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 12:42 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Even if the medical cost come out to $10,000 treatment, co-payment of 10% is $1,000.
If people is so rich to go private hospitals, cannot even afford $1,000 co-payment - rather than abusing it and bankrupt the nation and the people?
15/3/24, 12:42 pm - +Liang Wei: There is also a need to think through carefully certain commonly accepted costly assumptions. Eg digitalisation of healthcare notes. While that is useful in many instances eg in acute hospitals, it may not be needed to the same degree in other settings. Eg hospice and end of life care. The system can be far simpler as there will not be the usual ins and outs in acute hospitals. A good summary and itemisation of key issues may be sufficient. We may not need expensive medical IT systems to be deployed there.
15/3/24, 12:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Co-payment force people to use privilege services carefully - and use it when necessary.
Not abusing it.
15/3/24, 12:44 pm - +Rama: Just like making civil servants pay 10% of health care costs started when LHL was I believe DPM which pissed them off!
15/3/24, 12:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Hence I don't buy 100% medical coverage for private hospitals.
Because even restructured public hospitals - people are already co-pay 90% : 10%.
Why rich individual using private services insist 100% - at the expense of the public at large?
It is a very flaw thinking - and purely selfish.
15/3/24, 12:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes.
I was in the thick of it.
And praise PM Lee for the foresight to make it right.
Else Singapore budget will constantly in deficit - and we will always be in huge debt like many developed countries.
15/3/24, 12:48 pm - +Shanesu: This message was deleted
15/3/24, 12:48 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: It’s great that we are doing our part to alleviate the suffering.
I just hope that the aid doesn’t go to Hamas but to the actual civilians. There’s no mention of who the recipients are. It just says air drop with help of Jordanians. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 12:49 pm - +Rama: Agree
15/3/24, 12:50 pm - +Rama: This is good for surgeon who depend on medical tourism
15/3/24, 1:08 pm - +Thank You Woman: Question. Number 1
$4 million is it from tax payer $$$
$300 million is only estimated not confirm and the $$$ goes to? Citizens or “company”
15/3/24, 1:09 pm - +Thank You Woman: How much does all these cost ?
15/3/24, 1:10 pm - +Sam: If 50% of the amount attracts GST, that's already $13.5million. Government revenue likely goes into social spending
15/3/24, 1:14 pm - +Thank You Woman: My sis single and only earn $1,500 below per month w/o this 100% coverage cannot imagine she cannot do anything when her oncologist attending to her was the most senior and refused to give her chemo so she either wait and die or follow instruction to get her kidney remove by the surgeon huh…..I accompany her through from her first diagnosis of stomach pain hence I know. It was the group of cancer support group who recommended her the TCM and oncologist!!! Well, this is NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH at least.
15/3/24, 1:17 pm - +Thank You Woman: 🤔 tourist can claim back GST right
15/3/24, 1:20 pm - +Thank You Woman: Wisdom from our ancestors:
人为财死 鸟为食亡（Human die of $$$$, birds die for food)
Once you have food you can CAGE the wild be it bird/monkey/rat/tiger.
谈钱伤感情（$$$$ money 💴 hurt feelings Be it family/govt) nothing but the truth!
15/3/24, 1:26 pm - +Rama: Blood suckers!
15/3/24, 1:26 pm - +Thank You Woman: Wisdom tells us to do good and not greed. Be it Buddha or sharing from a pastor spouse offer time/help even money and more will come to you. I learn to experience it and the universal law is so amazingly TRUE!
Now 47yrs old do not know nor understand even many ppl around me. I only study till sec 2 and not been working for 20 over years but volunteering and being a care giver I am living a tai tai Iive 🙏. Not to brag but the law of universal
15/3/24, 1:29 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If you so rich, I assume you won't mind to help your sister co-pay 10% of her hospital fees.
I presume.
15/3/24, 1:30 pm - +Thank You Woman: I at 20yrs old also used to think who can get sick mostly I pay 10% like $2K for hospital bill BUT 10yrs later after seeing my sister sick and accompany her everywhere to seek treatment and before seeing her recovery I called my prudential agent out PLEASE COVER MY WHOLE FAMILY!!!! thank god I did 🙏
15/3/24, 1:31 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: Good.
15/3/24, 1:35 pm - +Thank You Woman: At that time my sis got cancer I was 7months pregnant and after her operation and I on maternity my dearest mother collapse and was totally dependent and so much more at that time dun say financial just mental itself is devastating as well as physical……I still have my father Inlaw a kidney dialysis patient and mil a cancer relapse patient what Else thinking of all these is NOW I really thank god/Buddha that they help me stay strong and overcome all these🙏
15/3/24, 1:36 pm - +Rama: Wise move!
15/3/24, 1:37 pm - +Rama: I feel your predicament. 😔😳
15/3/24, 1:37 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily even amongst immediate family!
15/3/24, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Treasure your health, eat wisely and moderately, exercise, get enough sleep and do regular annual medical check.
15/3/24, 1:39 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Singapore injection of grant $2 to $4 million grant that multiply into $300 million to $400 million economic growth - is a typical illustration of Multiplier Effect through Circular Flow of Income.
2. Government spendings, plus Consumer consumption, Export, etc. --- are economic techniques to boost Economic Growth and increase our GDP.
3. So when overseas travellers come into Singapore to watch Taylor Swift concert, our domestic Economy will directly benefits, because foreigners have to spend when they come into Singapore :-
Eg.
a. Pay airfares.
b. Pay hotel stay.
c. Pay transport.
d. Pay food and drinks.
e. Pay concert tickets.
f. Buy souvenirs and gifts.
etc.
So our business, will directly benefit - contributing to revenues, profits - and pay taxes to the Government.
At the same time, it creates jobs for our people in all these sectors.
4. The multiplier effect is 150% growth.
15/3/24, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Great foresight
15/3/24, 1:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
5. At the same time, it is free marketing and branding for Singapore - as the world get to know Singapore - and trigger a secondary effect of attracting more 1st time or repeat tourists into Singapore.
15/3/24, 1:45 pm - +Rama: Yes. Taylor Swift beau amazed by our country!
15/3/24, 2:04 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Coming back to today's topic, I will approach Gaza conflict from a Humanity angle.
2. 1stly, we must always ensure fairness, justice, objectiveness without biasness.
3. We must be able to ascertain what is right, what is wrong - and not be bias based on our faith, culture - and support wrongdoings even though we know is wrong. Everything we do must be based on conscience 良心。
Only then,our viewpoints will be taken seriously with respect.
4.
a. Hamas has conducted an atrocity on 7 Oct, massacre many civilians, and foreigners.
UN did not objectively issue condemnation in a timely manner - and in fact the resolution was shot down when it was raise by a Western Country. This is obviously wrong and UN has lose its conscience.
UN team says rape, gang rape likely occurred during Hamas’ attack on Israel. Only now, UN single out Hamas atrocities --- after hammering Israel in many condemnation in UN while failing to condemn Hamas earlier. This trigger Israel ferocity in their counterattack to demand justice. Hence if karma is not properly address - complication will arise. https://www.straitstimes.com/world/middle-east/un-team-says-rape-gang-rape-likely-occurred-during-hamas-attack-on-israel
"UN envoy says 'reasonable grounds' to believe Hamas committed sexual violence on Oct. 7".
https://www.yahoo.com/news/un-envoy-says-reasonable-grounds-192026159.html#:~:text=UN%20envoy%20says%20%27reasonable%20grounds%27%20to%20believe%20Hamas%20committed%20sexual%20violence%20on%20Oct.%207
"Hamas attackers raped women’s corpses, UN finds".
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hamas-attackers-raped-women-corpses-001423058.html#:~:text=at%20any%20time-,Hamas%20attackers%20raped%20women%E2%80%99s%20corpses%2C%20UN%20finds,-Rozina%20Sabur
b. Israel right to defence - to protect their civilians from further attack and massacre is justifiable - as no Countries in the right mind do nothing when they are slaughter by militants in cold war.
Terrorists must be apprehended and punished. But UN seems to be blind to this.
c. But when Israel counter-attack - bombing Gaza civilians, starving Gaza civilians, killing 30,000 over civilians - the response has gone overboard.
Indiscriminate killings of civilians who are not part of the militants - are massacre as well.
It is wrong for IDF to kill innocent civilians.
d. Having say so, civilians must be protected and fed - and not be collectively punished - who are not part of the militant's crime.
15/3/24, 2:10 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢
15/3/24, 2:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: The sad part is that the majority of citizens voted for Hamas
15/3/24, 2:15 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Cf the German chose Hitler's party. There will be repercussions
15/3/24, 2:17 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Israel and Palestine history is a very complex and complicated historical and religious settings.
The root cause is - both are unable to accommodate and mutually coexist and indulge in mutual respect.
This is the root cause of centuries, decades and years of problem and bloodshed.
15/3/24, 2:22 pm - +Rama: Disagree on point c. When you hide amongst the civil population to engage the enemy, aren't you guilty of the same atrocities you are accusing the enemy of!?
15/3/24, 2:23 pm - +Rama: Palestinian have to accept living under Jewish authority. No such thing as a Palestinian state!
15/3/24, 2:33 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. If people are able to be truly compassionate, able to work on mutual respect, mutual coexistence, - then historical hatred and revenge will stop.
2. I come across Buddhists help and donate to Hindus to build their temple - side by side with a Buddhist temple.
Devotees pray to the Hindu deities after praying to the Bodhisattva in the Buddhist temples.
And Hindus devotees did the same thing.
Because both practice Samadhi meditation.
Both believe in attaining Samdahi and Enlightenment.
Except there are some differences in faith whereby Hindus pray to the God while Buddhist aspire to attain Emptiness Nirvana.
But both accord one another in mutual respect.
3. Buddhists won't fight to take control over the Holy places of Buddha - eg. in places like India and Nepal (who now practise Hinduism) and not Buddhism - the place of birth, 1st expound of Dharma Teaching, Bodhi Tree that gain Enlightenment and place of Parinirvana - passing of the Buddha.
Buddhists are taught and practice - "Buddha is in our Heart" - will not insist taking control of Buddha Holy place and pilgrimage.
One of the largest Buddhist temple complex is managed by Indonesia Muslim in Borobodur.
Buddhists are grateful to India, Nepal and Indonesia for taking care of Buddha Holy sites and welcome Buddhists to visit in pilgrimage.
Hence Peace, No killings, no violence is the main tenet and core teachings of Buddhist teaching.
4. I am waiting for the day, Abrahamic religions - specifically, Judaism, Catholics, Christianity, Protestants and Islam - one day can visit their Holy Places --- mutually respect one another, mutually co-exist --- as they come from the "Same Root" praying to the "Same God".
Then centuries of religious violence will one day stop.
Because "God is in the Heart".
15/3/24, 2:33 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I thought Israel gave concessions eg food, water, allow workers to enter. Hahaha the workers spied on the kibbutz <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 2:34 pm - +Rama: Concessions being repeatedly abused!
15/3/24, 2:35 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Palestinian wants war . All money on war development and annihilation
15/3/24, 2:38 pm - +Rama: They want what is not frightfully theirs!
15/3/24, 2:39 pm - +Rama: This is happening in Singapore but not across the causeway where their IRO does not include Muslims!
15/3/24, 2:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
e. Watching innocent civilians suffer, children, women and men baked in hot sun, dashing from place to place, deprive of food and water, eating grass, sea water, cactus -- is difficult and painful to watch.
f. Buddhist temples like the Phor Kark See Temple, Buddhist Lodge etc raise funds from Buddhist devotees to help innocent people in Gaza and Israel - truly from Humanitarian ground - just cannot afford to watch the immense sufferings like Human Hell - starving without food, water, medicine, tent to shield from the hot sun easily 40 degree celcisus.
But such donations and aids are shortlived - and unsustainable.
g. A permanent solution - that ensure Israel and Palestine co-exist peacefully must be looked into.
h. I can't think of better solution - other than the 2 State solution - whereby both live side-by-side with mutual respect and mutual co-existence and mutual economic dealings to promote prosperity.
There must also be peaceful, mutually respectful way for people of different Abrahamic sects and lineage - to pray and worship the "Same God" from "Different Prophets" under the "Same Root".
Cannot imagine "Different Siblings fight and go at each other throat" - while worshipping the "Same Father?" How will the "Father" feel when their sons - fight one another to death and bleed - while worshipping the "Father"? Will the "Father" want to see this happen?
This is the only way to ensure permanent peace and mutual respect.
15/3/24, 2:57 pm - +Landon: That's not true. My friends cousin is a Palestinian, he doesn't want war, nor his friends or neighbours.
It's Hamas that is looking to solve issues through war.
15/3/24, 2:58 pm - +Bhavani: We must look at the environmental consequences!! I have been seeing a focuse on profits ever since I was born!! <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 2:59 pm - +Bhavani: We must stop talking about profits, money, capitalism, economy, finance if we want Singaporeans to become more environmentally conscious!
15/3/24, 3:00 pm - +Landon: You can be environmentally conscious and be profitable as well
15/3/24, 3:00 pm - +Bhavani: Many Singaporeans keep travelling overseas because there are limited nature places in Singapore!
15/3/24, 3:00 pm - +Landon: That's natural. Tourism is good.
15/3/24, 3:01 pm - +Landon: We have lots of foreigners coming to Singapore because there are limited business opportunities overseas
15/3/24, 3:01 pm - +Bhavani: Tourism is not good if it leads to conspicuous consumption of artificial goods!
15/3/24, 3:02 pm - +Bhavani: Foreigners cause overcrowding and congestion in Singapore!
15/3/24, 3:02 pm - +Landon: So we should ban tourism?
15/3/24, 3:03 pm - +Bhavani: Why must Singaporeans tolerate overcrowding and congestion? This impacts human rights!
15/3/24, 3:04 pm - +Bhavani: Singapore should be an exemplar of supporting human rights if it wants other countries to follow suit!
15/3/24, 3:04 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Once, I visited a Middle East County - Dubai in a working trip.
2. A group of us lost our way to go back to our hotel and we drifted under more than 40 degree outside without water - and we are quite desperate.
3. Trying to flag a taxi outside (other than our hotel) - is extremely tough.
4. We have to skirt through a very long way to reach our hotel.
5. Then I notice there is a shortcut - that is we will have to cut through a mosque before we reach our hotel.
6. All my colleagues disagree to do so, (because at that time, it is a very sensitive time - not too long after 911).
7. However, a Muslim in white robe happen to step out from the mosque (he look like a staff working in the mosque).
8. I politely bow to him (as he look pleasant) - and told him about our plight.
h. He immediately offer to help - and say "Come with me, I bring you into the mosque and come out through the back door".
i. I appreciatively say thank you and begin to remove my shoes out of respect as we need to walk through the hall (I believe is the praying ground) of the mosque - a very big place. My colleagues also start to remove their shoes.
j. The Muslim staff when see ask do that say "No need, no need to take out your shoes. Just follow me".
k. As we walk past the mosque praying area, we walk with respect - and lo and behold, we are at the back door and we see our hotel across the street.
l. I asy "Thank You respectfully" and the Muslim staff smile broadly.
m. This is the 1st time I step into a mosque - and it is a Middle East Country - not too long after 911 - a very sensitive time.
n. Having say so, if we treat people with different faiths with respect, people will reciprocate.
15/3/24, 3:06 pm - +Bhavani: This message was deleted
15/3/24, 3:06 pm - +Bhavani: You mean limited business opportunities for foreigners?
15/3/24, 3:08 pm - +Bhavani: This message was deleted
15/3/24, 3:21 pm - +Rama: Point g and h out of the question!
15/3/24, 3:22 pm - +Rama: Nonsense
15/3/24, 3:22 pm - +Rama: Based on whose interpretation!?
15/3/24, 3:53 pm - +Rama: Can any country survive without tourism!?
15/3/24, 3:54 pm - +~N: Just wanted to share this too in support of what you said about how there’s a lot of tit for tat actions on both sides. It’s a long complex history very much a construct of colonial times and unfortunately the tensions remain till today. To be fair, this is also the only country in the world where apartheid is still practised actively today.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
15/3/24, 3:54 pm - +Rama: Bhutan is one example of limited tourism to protect the environment
15/3/24, 3:55 pm - +Rama: Disagree on it being the only country in the world that practices apartheid!
15/3/24, 3:56 pm - +~N: Thanks Rama. Grateful if you could give other examples of current practices?
15/3/24, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢
15/3/24, 4:03 pm - +Rama: Nadia, Malaysia, North Korea, Iran, China, India, Myanmar, Nigeria,USA. Andrew
15/3/24, 4:14 pm - +Landon: Why do they have to accept?
15/3/24, 4:15 pm - +Landon: Yes, but would you be okay with Singapore increasing income taxes. We are a tax haven by definition.
15/3/24, 4:16 pm - +Rama: They have no ancestors going back over three thousand years of history to justify.
15/3/24, 4:16 pm - +Landon: They have different national interests
15/3/24, 4:16 pm - +Landon: And Bhutan isn't a cosmopolitan country.
15/3/24, 4:16 pm - +Rama: No they can't. Everyone country does a balancing act.
15/3/24, 4:16 pm - +Rama: Must it be?
15/3/24, 4:17 pm - +Rama: So does every nation.
15/3/24, 4:19 pm - +Landon: So you can't use Bhutan as an example because they aren't like Singapore. It's not comparable.
15/3/24, 4:19 pm - +Landon: It's like comparing a Horse and Apple
15/3/24, 4:19 pm - +Landon: Not even the same species
15/3/24, 4:21 pm - +Rama: Irregardless, tourism is how countries show people their lifestyle, way of life, culture, customs and traditions amongst many others.
15/3/24, 4:21 pm - +Rama: Species do adapt and cross breed.
15/3/24, 4:22 pm - +Rama: Let's see the future of cloning.
15/3/24, 4:23 pm - +Landon: So you're saying an apple and horse can cross breed?
15/3/24, 4:26 pm - +Rama: That remains to be seen in the very distant future
15/3/24, 4:40 pm - +Khuan Yew: I think it is a good approach by the government to provide the humanitarian assistance to Gaza. Instead of having to pick sides, it is good that the government recognises the need to help the civilians in Gaza instead of ignoring their situation. At the same time, I believe that the Singapore government like the US government is working through diplomatic channels with Israel to resolve the situation.
Rather than pick sides, it would be better that Singaporeans also recall our history where the Israelis came as “Mexicans” to help build up the Singapore Armed Forces in 1965/1966.
15/3/24, 4:41 pm - +Rama: Either way, you are indirectly dealing with terrorist whether you like it or not.
15/3/24, 4:49 pm - +Landon: So you're saying we should just not provide aid and let innocent people die?
15/3/24, 4:54 pm - +Rama: There are innocent people on both sides of the fence. One is trustworthy and the other!?
15/3/24, 5:00 pm - +Sunny: One has aid, the other doesn't
15/3/24, 5:00 pm - +Sunny: it's not about deciding people's innocence from our position or their political future <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 5:01 pm - +Sunny: it's about deciding whether we will send them food when they are hungry from war. That is all the policy is about
15/3/24, 5:02 pm - +Rama: What we send is comforting to the central distribution point only. Beyond that, theft starts.
15/3/24, 5:15 pm - +Khuan Yew: The SG government is helping the Gaza civilians with the airdrop humanitarian assistance. If Hamas decides to take the airdrop supplies for their fighters, that’s beyond everyone’s control. But Singapore has already done its part instead of turning a blind eye.
15/3/24, 5:15 pm - +Rama: We do agree that there is pilferage.
15/3/24, 5:16 pm - +Landon: Both actually have aid.
15/3/24, 5:17 pm - +Rama: One is sure to reach the particular recipient for sure!
15/3/24, 5:24 pm - +Thank You Woman: Both side also have true
15/3/24, 5:25 pm - +Rama: One side is very subjective to receiving the actual intended aid
15/3/24, 5:25 pm - +Thank You Woman: So it’s actually who is the leader(decision maker) for each individual Govt bodies different “attitude”
15/3/24, 5:33 pm - +~N: Just want to highlight that people who are 25 now were 8 the last time there were elections in Gaza. Hamas was “elected” in 2006, which was also the last time elections were held. Even then, Hamas didn’t win a majority of votes, just more than anyone else. Gazans at the time were primarily focused on getting rid of Fatah, which was notoriously corrupt. This is without factoring in the fact that the Hamas of 2006 was approaching things from a primarily political rather than military perspective at the time. Unfortunately, you will also find that Hamas was all along backed and supported by Netanyahu and the various Israeli governments who propped them up for years at the expense of the PA. So, complicated situation there <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 5:35 pm - +Rama: Just like the Americans propped up Osama bin laden when the Russians were in Afghanistan only for him to turn on them subsequently.
15/3/24, 5:43 pm - +~N: That took another turn real fast. But the point is that for most of the folks in the strip, they’ve not been part of an election for as long as they can remember or lived. So kinda hard to say a group that is being funded by a third party that is now at war with you because of that same group, that it represents you when you didn’t vote for it or ask them to do that. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 5:45 pm - +Rama: People here have been suppressed for far too long under extreme living circumstances.
15/3/24, 5:52 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. After we return to the hotel, my colleagues turn from apprehension - apprehensive looks turn to amazement - say to me, "You very brave. Only you can do such feat."
2. I look at them and smile.
3. I think to myself, if you can see people's heart, speak to their hearts, nothing is impossible. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 6:00 pm - +Thank You Woman: North Korea 😂
15/3/24, 6:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢
15/3/24, 6:02 pm - +Thank You Woman: Never try never know 人之初性本善（everyone is kind by nature)
Seek help whenever requires
15/3/24, 6:05 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
But if cannot see people's heart, don't do it.
A person can be lynch for blasphemy.
15/3/24, 6:07 pm - +Rama: Yes
15/3/24, 6:07 pm - +Rama: In most predominantly Muslim countries
15/3/24, 6:08 pm - +Rama: Be tactful nonetheless
15/3/24, 6:08 pm - +Bhavani: Of course I'm not nonsense
15/3/24, 6:08 pm - +Bhavani: Not talking nonsense
15/3/24, 6:10 pm - +Rama: No such thing as a ideal population size to prevent over crowding and imply human rights abuse. Singapore has never gone down that road.
15/3/24, 6:10 pm - +Rama: 😳
15/3/24, 6:12 pm - +Bhavani: As usual you must always put my views down without sense
15/3/24, 6:15 pm - +Bhavani: Of course to have an optimal quality of life we must look at population size
15/3/24, 6:15 pm - +Rama: Which the government is constantly doing
15/3/24, 6:15 pm - +Bhavani: Stop making strange emoticons
15/3/24, 6:16 pm - +Bhavani: Without reason
15/3/24, 6:16 pm - +Thank You Woman: Channel 8
Hongkong drama
Big white Duel 2
Doctors vow one injury is too many and even if it’s not following the MOH regulations to a DOCTOR saving a life is PRIORITY!!!
戏如人生人生如戏（Life is like drama, drama is like life)
15/3/24, 6:17 pm - +Thank You Woman: What goes around comes around 🙏
15/3/24, 6:17 pm - +Rama: Land acquisition means many things in this tiny dot and housing for population size is a factor. So, overcrowding infringement on human rights does not factor.
15/3/24, 6:19 pm - +Rama: Honour killing still being practised even in UK and some predominantly Muslim countries!
15/3/24, 6:22 pm - +SL: Don't understand what the issue is of providing Humanitarian aid, many western countries doing so 🤷♂️
15/3/24, 6:25 pm - +SL: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights#:~:text=Article%201,in%20a%20spirit%20of%20brotherhood.
15/3/24, 6:29 pm - +Rama: Being a predominantly Muslim population, local aid agencies were paranoid about faith conversion to Christianity like during the Indonesia tsunami way back.
15/3/24, 6:33 pm - +Rama: Signing a UN charter is different from implementation by individual governments.
15/3/24, 6:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Save even one life must be able to do it with wisdom and use better means.
Not kill others just to save one life. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 6:35 pm - +Rama: Agree
15/3/24, 6:39 pm - +Thank You Woman: As I watch news now abt preventive elderly fall. Remind me that my father Inlaw was admitted to SGH and he fell hence to go toilet he need help from nurse to bring him however they choose to put him on diaper and when I visit him I question reason being not enough nurse !!!
I called nurse manager to come and day time there are nurse student more manpower hence putting the patient on diaper less movement eventually muscle die off and cause the elderly mobility handicapped I learn all these being a caregiver for my mother.
Met an aunty with her mother on wheel chair and they told me the same story they just put the ah ma on diaper and eventually the ah ma leg muscle was too weak to stand and walk. This is what happened in GOVT hospital there are so much more I’ve seen
15/3/24, 6:40 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Like what you say, all go public hospitals - sure cannot make it.
So all must go private hospitals lor?
15/3/24, 6:42 pm - +Rama: Pampers solve one thing but creates another.
15/3/24, 6:42 pm - +Rama: Cost factor
15/3/24, 6:42 pm - +Thank You Woman: Precisely “LAW” is dead and to be review every year! Recently various board started to review the PCI (per capital income) till someone highlight.
Even vice activities the law was just review and renewed the last one was a decade ago hence the prostitution able to rent private condo and even pay for the fine hence the activities carries on
15/3/24, 6:43 pm - +Rama: 😳🤷♂️😆🤨🤦♂️
15/3/24, 6:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
So what are you suggesting, to ensure healthcare costs are kept and unsustainable?
And provide good healthcare services?
15/3/24, 6:44 pm - +Thank You Woman: Not all will go private at least you don’t it’s your decision and I respect however to restrict others by constraints then it is not nice
15/3/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
15/3/24, 6:45 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Only special for you and families, must go private hospitals.
Let others who go public hospitals sponsor and subsidies your costs isn't it?
15/3/24, 6:45 pm - +Thank You Woman: If Taylor swift give business then vice versus it give business to the private doctors and hospital
15/3/24, 6:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Huh ???
Don't understand your analogy.
15/3/24, 6:46 pm - +Thank You Woman: Local insurance does not cover dental BUT They are overseas insurance that does
15/3/24, 6:46 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Sorry, how come divert to dental?
15/3/24, 6:48 pm - +Thank You Woman: It’s falls under insurance
15/3/24, 6:48 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
As far as I know, Ministers, public officers, and many public go to public restructured hospitals - and got very good treatment and recover very well.
They are not so pampered like must go privilege private hospitals - and expect others to subsidize them.
15/3/24, 6:49 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If you want such privilege, co-pay - Don't expect others to subsidize your privilege.
What so difficult to understand?
15/3/24, 6:49 pm - +Thank You Woman: lol they are ministers so obviously they are being well treated
15/3/24, 6:50 pm - +Rama: Class A ward in a public restructured hospital.
15/3/24, 6:50 pm - +Thank You Woman: My mum was in Yishun KTP she 1st went in as private then subsidies it’s totally different treatment the medication also different in 2016
15/3/24, 6:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
My family members not ministers, we also get very good treatment.
Both my parents now more than 90 years old, still very healthy thanks to our public hospitals.
15/3/24, 6:50 pm - +Rama: God bless your parents.
15/3/24, 6:50 pm - +Thank You Woman: So lucky
15/3/24, 6:51 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Aiyah, all your family members is make of royal flesh and need special treatment lah.
Then you pay for it.
No one will make noise.
Don't exploit public funds. <This message was edited>
15/3/24, 6:58 pm - +Thank You Woman: Your parents in C ward?
15/3/24, 7:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I don't know whether they go c wards or b2 wards because not me send them there.
My brother will know.
But they co-pay 10%.
15/3/24, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
15/3/24, 7:00 pm - +Thank You Woman: lol just that we so lucky to met the doctors that refuse treatment and thank god to have guided us to buy the IP plan 100% coverage
15/3/24, 7:00 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I if warded choose C wards.
I also co-pay 10%
15/3/24, 7:01 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
====
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