REACH 547 - What are your thoughts on the new rental vouchers for families awaiting BTO flats and the lower initial down payment for young couples purchasing housing in Singapore, considering housing affordability and accessibility in the current market?
(SK)
06 Mar 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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6/3/24, 10:00 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
It was announced on Tuesday (5 Mar) by National Development Minister Desmond Lee that eligible families waiting for their Build-To-Order (BTO) units will soon be able to tap $300 a month in rental vouchers to offset rent for an HDB flat or bedroom on the open market.
Minister Lee also announced HDB’s Staggered Downpayment Scheme, where the upfront down payment for couples eligible for the deferred income assessment will be lowered to 2.5% of the flat price, regardless of their financing option.
💬 *What are your thoughts on the new rental vouchers for families awaiting BTO flats and the lower initial down payment for young couples purchasing housing in Singapore, considering housing affordability and accessibility in the current market?*
📌 _*$300 Monthly Rental Vouchers*_
Eligible families waiting for their BTO units would be able to tap on the Parenthood Provisional Housing Scheme (PPHS) for their rental subsidies. They will receive $300 monthly rental vouchers to assist with renting HDB flats or bedrooms on the open market, running from July 2024 to June 2025. Families must have a monthly household income of $7,000 or below to qualify, and they must have a rental tenancy registered with HDB.
📌 _*Lower Initial Down Payment*_
Young couples who apply for an unfinished five-room or smaller flat – under the BTO, Sale of Balance Flats or open booking of flats schemes – will get more help and will benefit from a reduced initial down payment of 2.5%, regardless of their financing option. This initiative aims to alleviate the financial burden on couples purchasing their first homes.
Previously, the upfront down payment under the Staggered Downpayment Scheme had been halved to 5% for buyers taking HDB loans and those without a housing loan, and 10% for buyers opting for bank loans.
👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/300-a-month-in-rental-vouchers-for-families-awaiting-bto-flats-lower-deposit-for-young-couples
👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/young-couples-students-nsfs-hdb-bto-lower-initial-downpayment-pphs-vouchers-4171466
6/3/24, 10:02 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
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6/3/24, 10:25 am - +Thank You: Having a sliding scale of the flats bought by my parents(60K) then me(119K) and my cousins(250K):
These are BTO prices at Bt Panjang:
60K 1984
119K 1999
250k 2014
You can see the difference around 14/15years and amount double however our salary was not very much aligned for the ITE graduates still getting like $1,800.
1999, my salary was like $1,400. Can afford 119K BTO. Poly graduates should have $2,500 but the BTO now was like $300K and above for 3bedroom Haiz?
6/3/24, 10:26 am - +Thank You: I was once in the train overhear the white collar talking about how expensive is BTO now
6/3/24, 11:36 am - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. My son feel that dropping the initial deposit if 2.5% for BTO will lighten the financial load.
2. For those who need to marry while waiting for the flat and need to rent a flat, the monthly rental voucher will help a bit but rental is not cheap - easily cost more than thousand dollars a month.
3. Some couple will prefer to stay with their parent first.
4. However, still appreciate the Housing Minister effort to make owning house easier for the young couples.
6/3/24, 11:42 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: It’s a good thing down payment reduced to 2.5%. It takes a considerable amount of time to save up and hdb prices keep going up. The earlier young couples can lock in prices, the better.
6/3/24, 11:46 am - +Sunshine Pooh: i am wondering why young couples do not want to stay with parents? i mean is it necessary to tie flat ownership with the discussion to get married? stay several years with the family, have kids, parents can be care-givers (some like this purpose in life) and then have own houses
6/3/24, 11:47 am - +Rama: Can the government consider sgd500 as the rental voucher?
6/3/24, 11:47 am - +Rama: Every couple wants privacy after tying the knot away from prying inlaws.
6/3/24, 11:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Reason they parent no spared room for them when after ROM.
Young has to leave parent and set own future rental flat
6/3/24, 11:57 am - +Frankie Wee: They have option to prepare buying a flat resale or sale of balance flat. I believe it’s affordable because govt given housing grant additional
6/3/24, 11:58 am - +Frankie Wee: I don’t have additional in old time
6/3/24, 12:15 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1. For HDB flats and private condo, the floor areas are just too small, about 1,200 square feet?
Maximum 3 rooms and 2 toilets only.
If young couple stay with parents, and if have other siblings, wonder where got space to move, wonder where is the privacy?
Practically impossible, and frictions will arise.
2. For landed properties with 3 storey, 5 bed rooms, 1 toilet to each bedroom, then there will be alot of moving space and privacy - then young couples staying with parents are possible.
Less frictions. This is what I observed that most parents do stay with young couples in landed properties.
6/3/24, 12:18 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: this is the problem created when houses being built have become smaller in sizes. there are many people staying in resale flats or older ones where the flat size is much bigger and they are able to have the parents along with another sibling + married couple staying together with sufficient space to move around and accommodate needs
6/3/24, 12:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: Become like Hong Kong 🇭🇰
6/3/24, 12:19 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Reduce in law issues.
Harmony in all families.
6/3/24, 12:23 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
I live in older 5 room flats 1,200 square feet.
My son say still too small because he need to set up alot of gadgets at home for his R&D work - flat not big enough for him.
Also next time have kids, no space for them.
Landed properties 3,000 sq ft floor spaces+ build up 5,000 square feet.
Can easily squeeze in 10 people in 1 property and still have running space.
Wonder Singapore a little red dot - can we have such luxury?
6/3/24, 12:24 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
1 room as big as 1 5 room flat.
Landed properties stay with parents of course no problem. <This message was edited>
6/3/24, 12:30 pm - +Thank You: Precisely nowadays new flats be it HDB or condo all small until so “pathetic” lol yet the price was sky high! Part to the reason house so expensive so small how to give birth $$$$ and space
6/3/24, 12:33 pm - +Rama: Paying for finishing only!
6/3/24, 1:21 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/govt-open-to-idea-of-one-off-increase-in-vehicle-population-with-higher-usage-based-charges-chee#:~:text=SINGAPORE%20%2D%20The%20Government %20is%20open,Transport%20Minister%20Chee%20Hong%20Tat.
Govt open to idea of one-off increase in vehicle population with higher usage-based charges: Chee Hong Tat
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:54 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 1:56 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Look like a good chance that Coe prices will drop drastically will usage cost will go up for vehicles if ERP 2 is implemented.
More people will be happy - able to own cars.
Government also happy, can win more votes from happy car owners.
6/3/24, 1:58 pm - +Smiley face: After it dropped, it came...?
6/3/24, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
6/3/24, 2:03 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 2:03 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 2:05 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 2:06 pm - +Rama: What about family of two with no children?
6/3/24, 2:07 pm - +Smiley face: $300....
Thanks Andrew!
6/3/24, 2:07 pm - +Smiley face: The idea is an Inclusive and Holistic approach....
6/3/24, 2:09 pm - +Smiley face: 6 March, 2024
"Conquering Your Aspirations?"
6/3/24, 2:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Single also still $300?
6/3/24, 2:10 pm - +Rama: 🤷♂️
6/3/24, 2:12 pm - +Smiley face: Yes!
6/3/24, 2:48 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Kernah double charge???
Where’s the savings?
6/3/24, 3:03 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If Coe $20,000.
ERP depending on congested roads charge higher, else neighbourhood or ulu places charge lower.
Then good for car owners.
Rather than now Coe > $100,000.
6/3/24, 3:05 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: $20k coe? 😂
6/3/24, 3:06 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Ok ah.
Last time I pay $30,000 Coe, total car price about $60,000 - SUV some more.
6/3/24, 3:07 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Now one small car $150,000.
Crazy price.
6/3/24, 3:10 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: LTA took those $30K COEs in advance and deploy now. When the time comes for those $30K COE to be renewed, prices will be sky high.
It’s fixed supply, a lot of demand.
Gov should just scrap coe and use usage. But coe now is a huge cash cow to fund nation building. <This message was edited>
6/3/24, 3:12 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
If remove Coe, I think usage per day could run up to few hundred if not 1,000 of dollars.
Many people will just jump in to buy cars like nobody business.
The LTA white paper in 2002 already do up all the scenarios.
No coe won't work in Singapore.
6/3/24, 3:12 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
No spaces even for car park.
6/3/24, 3:15 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
They have done modelling on road spaces, car park spaces vis a vis spaces for housing, industry, malls, recreation and forest reserve/reservoirs etc.
Everything will go Haywire if no Coe.
You won't know how small Singapore are, and the premium lands that Singapore needs.
It will blow your mind.
6/3/24, 3:18 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore won't be a liveable country much not less a city - if space planning don't go to the last centimetres.
Even when we plan for data centre in the office space - every centimetres count.
6/3/24, 3:19 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Even very big cities like London, New York, Tokyo, KL - go into a gridlock when car usage and ownership are not controlled.
6/3/24, 3:20 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Our car usage is going to be fixed no matter what the fuel / usage prices are.
It’s what is known as inelastic demand.
Last time when Shanmugam say up fuel tax when barrel prices were close to $0, to control usage. Who can seriously say they actually drive more?
Now barrel price $80, the tax didn’t remove. Our driving pattern still remain the same.
If need to send kids to school, send parents to hospital etc, they have to be done no matter what.
6/3/24, 3:24 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Anyway, if layman have a chance to see the modelling - automatically, all will come to the same conclusion that without Coe - Singapore as a city will be gridlock and unliveable.
London, New York, many EU cities, Tokyo etc - so much bigger than Singapore already need some form of vehicle control and despite that, they encounter gridlock.
So can imagine Singapore a little red dot - it is a no brainer to come to a similar conclusion.
6/3/24, 3:25 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
That's no mechanism other than a hard quota - specifically Coe can make Singapore car ownership works.
6/3/24, 3:31 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Instead of building 30 floors flat for housing, government will have to build 30 floor multi storey car park for cars.
Then only space left is only flats and car park - no spaces for companies, industrial park, mall and reservoirs.
Then no need to work already. <This message was edited>
6/3/24, 3:32 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Imagine 5.65 people + 3 million cars.
Any more space for other things else?
6/3/24, 3:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Coe hard quota match to existing car parks and road capacity - and cannot go beyond that eg. 500,000 cars. (Now probably 300,000 cars that is why Coe prices so high) - for illustrative purposes.
Then the rest are use for living spaces.
Then Singapore is still a liveable country and city.
6/3/24, 3:45 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Hence increasing cars need to have 2 parameters:-
1. Hard quota - Coe (but can adjust to high bound limit) - with increase road spaces and car park.
2. Car usage - charge higher for congested roads.
Only then car ownership and car usage is viable for a little red dot like Singapore.
This is a math and physics (space) problem - and need math (hard quota) + usage pricing (economic) to solve it.
6/3/24, 3:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Ask the current Minister Ong Ye Kung - he is one of the pioneer that help to draft the LTA white paper while he was in Mincom.
He will give you a very good explanation of the road space concept for Singapore.
6/3/24, 4:02 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
6/3/24, 4:33 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
For 30 storey car park, either the drivers will have fainted, circling the car park to reach 30 floors or the car fainted or malfunction before it reaches 30 floors pulling 1st gear all the way up.
5 floor multi storey car park already a challenge - imagine a 30 storey multi car park.
6/3/24, 4:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: Building underground storeroom carpark
6/3/24, 4:35 pm - +Terrie Wong: Use car lifts
6/3/24, 4:35 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
30 floor underground up and down - same as 30 floors upward.
Because cars need to go down and come up - drivers fainted halfway due to nausea.
6/3/24, 4:36 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahaha.
I think the car lift break half way mark.
6/3/24, 4:36 pm - +Frankie Wee: No need just press the number then automatically lift up the car
6/3/24, 4:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: 30 story carpark will sure climate hot
6/3/24, 4:37 pm - +Terrie Wong: It's in use in China already.
Automatic slot car park like shelving.
Just press the lift button.
6/3/24, 4:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes correct
6/3/24, 4:38 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Come across any car park that is 30 floors anyway in the world?
I maybe ignorant.
6/3/24, 4:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: Also Japan too
6/3/24, 4:40 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Japan ironically need to bid for a car park than can buy car like Coe.
If no car park cannot buy car if I am not wrong.
6/3/24, 4:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: $300 e-voucher all household HDB
6/3/24, 4:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 4:41 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Yes I am correct.
6/3/24, 4:41 pm - +Rama: Should start this here!?
6/3/24, 4:41 pm - +Terrie Wong: Yes. Their issue is carpark availablity, not COE. Though the cause is the same: lack of space.
6/3/24, 4:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心: <Media omitted>
6/3/24, 4:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: 2030 change global climate
6/3/24, 4:43 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
The world deepest car park is 12 storey.
6/3/24, 4:44 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Everywhere in the world is the same.
Space is finite.
Desires and wants are infinite.
6/3/24, 4:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ask HDB architecture project each floor unit with parking up to 24 floors support cargo lift
6/3/24, 4:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: 😅
6/3/24, 4:45 pm - +Bhavani: In my opinion, we can't keep digging underground as this can destabilise the ground
6/3/24, 4:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: I imagine living room walk next side with car
6/3/24, 4:47 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Car space concept ask experts to explain.
LTA have many experts.
After they give you realistic briefing with modelling - everyone will know it is crazy to build car park and road spaces beyond our current capacity.
No one can live, work, play and travel properly.
LTA has almost max out our road capacity.
If don't trust me, trust LTA.
6/3/24, 4:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: Economy will gain high point and plus job opportunities Ai
6/3/24, 4:49 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore is already the most well plan well build city and country in the world.
No other government can do better.
6/3/24, 4:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Master plan
6/3/24, 4:50 pm - ☸️ Danny 心:
Even now squeezing some spaces out for cycling path is already a challenge - don't talk about building more road and car park.
The cars cannot even move on the road.
6/3/24, 5:48 pm - +Smiley face: "New problems needs New solutions! History is benefit. We must seek to fully understand the historical awareness and sensitivity and relate to the present situations as an indicator and guideline to descern the future; that's beneficial!"
-- anonymity
6/3/24, 5:58 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 5:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: Sad divorce
6/3/24, 6:01 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/3/24, 6:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Possibly if relationship marriage unhappy over rental and BTO incomplete.
6/3/24, 6:07 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*
6/3/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
6/3/24, 6:55 pm - +Village Consultancy: Even as we discuss housing policies that are pro family, may be useful to also consider ways to reverse divorce in young couples 🙏🏼
This will involve upstream measures and education as young single adults, supporting them in adulting
6/3/24, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 6 March, 2024
"Conquering Your Aspirations?"
"The Target: 3 meals, 3 rooms, or 3 storey? You stratigises, you create tactics and you have a mind-map of your Pitstops, Pitfals and Precincts. You work relentlessly each day just to keep the journey going and the preliminary destination is on sight. You need to find many ways to reach these preliminaries or Precincts in order to achieve your goals. No shorter routes nor hidden roads ahead, you need to stay focus all the way. And avoiding all distractions and attractions along this journey you aspires to do before it expires!"
- - anonymity
Life is never fair?
Is this the reality or can we assume Life's like a simulation or even a game?
In all of the above assumptions, one obvious point is chance and decision to play.
How to play it alright or play to your advantage?
You need to understand the systems of assumption in any country you live in and thoroughly before you embarks and together with the millions of players to reach the sinai of joyfulness or the ravine of disappointment
Doings?
What you see, you understands...
What you read, you may not comprehend...
What you hear, you apprehend...
What you do, you may (not) know what you are doing...
When you are doing, you will well know the extend...
When you are done doing, you will get it !
"New problems need New solutions! History is benefit. We must seek to fully understand the historical awareness and sensitivity and relate to the present situations as an indicator and guideline to descern the future; that's beneficial!"
-- anonymity
1) First Timer Buyers Additional Discounts on top of existing incentives?
(Applicable to 3 roons flats and 4 rooms flats with child/children under the age of 16.)
1 child $15,000
2 children $30,000
3 children $60,000
2) Upping the Rental Vouchers?
(3 installments)
$300 for family of 4 or less
$500 for family of 5-6
$800 for family with 2 children
$1,000 for family with one grandparent and 1 child
3) Pro Family?
It is increasing common for couples to divorce or part ways. There are few on-going considerations in holding on to their bookings while trying to settle their grievances and not losing the entire booking fees that is substantial to these young couples.
Another way to ease the queue or others who really need a flats, is to allow couples to give up sooner than hanging on to the pain and continues "owning" and renting to others. Consequentially, after the MOP, they sell-off to make a tidy sum of profits.
For newly married couples including those who are married waiting for their first flat. Perhaps to allow partial refund of the booking fees for first timers before the collection of the flats.
The refund will be prorated on the actual date of submission and the legal papers of divorce or separation, later date as the date of acknowledgement.
The subsequent application for BTO under new co-owner (or single owner) shall deem as second timer regardless of previous marriage of the new co-applicant for a BTO.
In the case of both applicants are divorcees, they will be third in queue for BTO application process.
All the above applicable to new HDB flats applicants and owners. Refund allowed only for first time buyers.
- - in progress - -
6/3/24, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
6/3/24, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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