REACH 508 - What are your thoughts on Singapore’s support for the UN resolution? How can we ensure that Singaporeans continue to be united while supporting victims of the conflict?
(SK)
30 Oct 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
30/10/23, 9:40 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
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30/10/23, 10:00 am - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
Singapore voted in favour of a resolution to protect civilians and uphold legal and humanitarian obligations amid conflict in the Gaza Strip during an emergency session of the United Nations General Assembly on 27 Oct.
Yesterday (29 October), Minister Shanmugam spoke to the media after he visited Humanity Matters to meet volunteers who were helping to pack relief supplies for people in Gaza, about Singapore’s vote in favour of the UN resolution. Minister also spoke about regulating discourse on the Israel-Hamas conflict, most notably the disallowing of public rallies and the importance of guarding against foreign interference. He also acknowledged the efforts of Singaporeans in coming together to provide humanitarian aid for victims of the conflict.
๐ฌ *What are your thoughts on Singapore’s support for the UN resolution? How can we ensure that Singaporeans continue to be united while supporting victims of the conflict?*
๐ *Singapore’s support for the UN resolution*
Minister Shanmugam said that the resolution reaffirmed that the solution to the conflict should be through a peaceful 2-state solution. However, Minister Shanmugam also said that the resolution should also have noted Israel’s right to self-defense, but that this right to self-defence cannot include indiscriminate killing of citizens and must be done in accordance to international law.
๐ *Regulating discourse on the Israel-Hamas conflict*
Minister Shanmugam also elaborated on the rationale for the disallowing of public rallies by the authorities. Minister said: "On rallies in Hong Lim (Park), we disallowed on public order reasons. Remember, rallies can be done by, if we allow one group, we have to allow other groups.”
He also added: “We took the decision that we will not allow rallies by anyone. We don’t want to import foreign arguments into Singapore.”
While Minister acknowledged that Singaporeans are entitled to express their views online, he stressed that Singaporeans must not engage in hate speech against others.
When asked about the views by the Israeli embassy that could be advocating for a cause, Minister said: "We don't take lightly any foreign interference in our domestic policies. We expect any ambassador or embassy to respect the way things are done in Singapore."
๐ *Humanitarian efforts for the conflict*
Minister Shanmugam also acknowledged the efforts of Singaporeans in coming together to provide humanitarian aid to the victims of the conflict. He said: “This is unique about Singapore. Everyone comes together to help even though they know most of the help goes towards Muslims in Gaza. They need help, we do what we can."
Minister Shanmugam’s comments were made on the sidelines of a ground-up interfaith joint humanitarian relief effort organised by Humanity Matters, a non-profit organisation where volunteers were gathered to pack relief supplies to be delivered to the displaced civilians of Gaza. The relief cargo, with a value of S$215,000, is scheduled to be airlifted on Oct 31 to Cairo, Egypt, and later transferred via land to Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip.
๐ https://str.sg/iG6p
๐ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/israel-hamas-war-singapore-vote-un-resolution-shows-clear-stand-shanmugam-3881071
30/10/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
30/10/23, 10:01 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
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30/10/23, 10:03 am - +Rama: Government did the right thing in supporting the resolution. Inter faith religious dialogue and the racial harmony act must form the cornerstone of our peace.
30/10/23, 10:05 am - +Darius Lee: I wrote a letter to the Straits Times forum on the topic: https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/letter-of-the-week-mid-east-experience-taught-me-to-reject-an-us-versus-them-mentality
I think Singapore's approach to the conflict has been principled and fair thus far
30/10/23, 10:13 am - +Poh S Lim: I would add that even though we empathise with those innocent civilians caught on both sides of the conflict, we must not import those quarrels into our own local discourse, otherwise it will only stoke up tension and division locally.
30/10/23, 10:15 am - +Rama: Valid reason not to allow any legal form of protest!
30/10/23, 10:18 am - +Phone number: Fantastic snapshot mate
30/10/23, 10:19 am - +Rama: https://youtu.be/V4eWv17DMa0?si=INrPzCgJ0Drp9Ahx
30/10/23, 10:30 am - +Darius Lee: Haha it is a nice photo. But I didn't take that one; I took many other photos when I was there but not this one. It was put there by Straits Times
30/10/23, 10:37 am - +Frankie Wee: No justice both Gaza Strip and Israel over the war but humanitarian crisis.
It’s like neighbours side country need to have peace talk.
But Gaza Strip is poor people and hide true and building weapons to attack Israel no reason. The world think that Palestinian is Isis threat.
30/10/23, 10:38 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: Regarding UN resolution to protect civilians, it sounds well and good. But its focus is for a cease fire is flawed; a cease fire would only allow Hamas terrorist to regroup and plan for another terrorist act. I think UN should push instead for a resolution not to use civilians as human shields. As I think the resolution is flawed, SG should not support it or at best abstain from the resolution.
Regarding discourse on Israel-Hamas conflict, this is good. Religious harmony is very important here.
Regarding humantarian efforts, this is good as well.
30/10/23, 10:43 am - +~L: We must remember that military conflict benefits no one. These acts of aggression from both sides will take generations to heal. This is a complicated decades old struggle. It's not for Singapore to fix it, but we can give our support to those who are suffering and we can give our support to those who want to find long term peace.
30/10/23, 10:43 am - +Frankie Wee: Its governs more than two million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, but the group is best known for its armed resistance to Israel. In October 2023, Hamas launched a massive surprise attack on southern Israel, killing hundreds of civilians and soldiers and taking dozens more as hostages.9 Oct 2023
30/10/23, 10:45 am - +~L: This isn't really about religion, this is about human insecurity, ego, revenge, greed and jealousy.
30/10/23, 10:47 am - +~L: My fear is that Israel is now attacking Hamas in Syria and Lebanon and the conflict will escalate further. This was always the prediction for where WW3 would start. Maybe Ukraine was the beginning but as major conflict erupts in other countries, like we saw in WW2, it will soon become a global conflict.
30/10/23, 10:49 am - +~L: Political Leaders who provoke nationalist causes and seek power through the negative attacks on 'foreigners' should be banned from taking office. All it does is create conflict which ultimately leads to war.
30/10/23, 10:50 am - +Rama: Military conflicts benefits only the arms manufacturer and their shareholders!
30/10/23, 10:50 am - +Rama: Isn't the Palestinian authority the sole legal representative of the Palestinian people!?
30/10/23, 10:51 am - +~L: I support Mr Shanmugam's statements 100% and also agree that rallies are not helpful.
30/10/23, 10:51 am - +Rama: Interpretation of religion plays a part!
30/10/23, 10:51 am - +Frankie Wee: Agreed
30/10/23, 10:51 am - +~L: Perhaps, or is just used as an excuse for conflict.
30/10/23, 10:51 am - +Rama: Iran will Stoke the flames!
30/10/23, 10:52 am - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 10:52 am - +Rama: This can only happen here!
30/10/23, 10:52 am - +~L: I still think it's not a coincidence that Israel was about to sign a major deal with Saudi Arabia just before the Hamas attack.
30/10/23, 10:53 am - +Rama: Iran had a hand in stopping this!
30/10/23, 10:53 am - +~L: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-puts-israel-deal-ice-amid-war-engages-with-iran-sources-say-2023-10-13/
30/10/23, 10:53 am - +Frankie Wee: Palestinian ๐ต๐ธ people will flow escape outside country for refugees.
30/10/23, 10:54 am - +Rama: Remember, it was Saudi Arabia that gave the green light recently fir two more sovereign Arab states to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
30/10/23, 10:54 am - +~L: I don't want to point fingers at anyone, nor create conflict with another country. I only mention this because understanding the cause of this attack helps keep it focused and on perspective.
30/10/23, 10:54 am - +Rama: Not to an Arab country
30/10/23, 10:54 am - +Rama: Inevitable
30/10/23, 10:58 am - +Frankie Wee: They are fearful Israel will sent nuclear bomb over Gaza Strip if long war joined force armed and not surrender.
30/10/23, 11:00 am - +Jimmy Chew: Difficult for Singapore. We're a small country. Walking a tight rope.
30/10/23, 11:00 am - +Jimmy Chew: Not to offend Hamas. Israel helps us when we need a military.
30/10/23, 11:01 am - +Jimmy Chew: How to answer the shooting of civilians and using them as shields by Hamas and Israel bombing them to get them out
30/10/23, 11:03 am - +Jimmy Chew: Taking civilians as hostages and humiliating them on public
30/10/23, 11:27 am - +Rama: Possibly
30/10/23, 11:27 am - +Rama: Remember konfrontasi!
30/10/23, 11:27 am - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 11:31 am - +Phone number: Please explain why the West Bank is being bombed and civilians still being killed over there when Hamas has absolutely no control nor influence over it?
30/10/23, 11:33 am - +Rama: Likewise for the Palestinian authority over the gaza strip!
30/10/23, 11:33 am - +Phone number: Yes exactly.
30/10/23, 11:34 am - +Phone number: Regardless who governs what, we need peace and an immediate ceasefire to stop civilian casualties and indiscriminate deaths of children!
30/10/23, 11:35 am - +Rama: Peace will come at a tremendous negative cost!
30/10/23, 11:35 am - +Phone number: As Darius succinctly put it, it is the worst case of identity politics indeed.
30/10/23, 11:48 am - +Rama: Polarisation according to superpower interest!
30/10/23, 11:48 am - +Phone number: Sadly yes.
30/10/23, 11:50 am - +KL: May I ask SG , a 18 year old to 59 year old male born Singapore , consider civilian or Military ? Given a number of us serve NS before ? A confuse of my identy <This message was edited>
30/10/23, 11:52 am - +Rama: Initially, 13 year cycle for military reservist but brought down to 10. So, should be considered civilian and no longer liable
30/10/23, 11:52 am - +KL: MR mean can recall any time wor.
30/10/23, 11:53 am - +Frankie Wee: Hopefully Malaysia should not interfere between Gaza Strip and Israel ๐คฆ
30/10/23, 11:53 am - +Frankie Wee: https://youtu.be/toaRr2ooWJA?si=gIUwqt4oZ2X6Qy6X
30/10/23, 11:59 am - +Smiley face: Who governed, who is governing and who will govern?
30/10/23, 11:59 am - +Smiley face: What about benefits? This opposite of cost!
30/10/23, 12:00 pm - +Smiley face: What is the true meaning of political identity vs a natural identity?
30/10/23, 12:01 pm - +Rama: Remember, hamas has an official presence in Malaysia and PM ANWAR attended a pro Palestinian rally recently!
30/10/23, 12:02 pm - +Rama: Cost will outweigh benefits due to selfish interests!
30/10/23, 12:04 pm - +Rama: If benefits were to outweigh costs, consider how much ethnic cleansing, genocide will take place prior!
30/10/23, 12:05 pm - +Smiley face: "No fools will do things out of costs with no benefits in mind...?"
- - anonymity
30/10/23, 12:06 pm - +Rama: No middle ground as such!
30/10/23, 12:08 pm - +Smiley face: In the middle of things?... these folks are sitting on the fence and eating their popcorn, and please watch and don't comment...?
30/10/23, 12:08 pm - +Rama: Comment nonetheless!
30/10/23, 12:09 pm - +Smiley face: In a prolonged war, especially when a nation is losing a war, conscription will come to play, getting all able men to fight till the last man standing still...?
30/10/23, 12:09 pm - +Rama: Age limit?!
30/10/23, 12:10 pm - +KL: Hearsay the paratrooper was train by "someone" . Sg should be more worried if the "someone" help cos if successful it can be incorp into thier bigger plan for own use. This seem to be a test for future use by the "Someone" . This case was a successful ambush . Thus i more worried about Sg . As the paratrooper is very suitable for Non land intruder as well thus low paraglider is the best way also. <This message was edited>
30/10/23, 12:10 pm - +Smiley face: Best to eat popcorn, simply when you are chewing, you can't speak and open your mouth wider? Or the popcorn will spill all over...?
30/10/23, 12:10 pm - +Smiley face: No age limit when you aspire to win a losing war! Look at Russia...?
30/10/23, 12:12 pm - +Rama: Unsympathetic to eat popcorn and watch suffering!
30/10/23, 12:13 pm - +Smiley face: In the story of a Sympathiser, yes, you should...!
30/10/23, 12:14 pm - +Rama: My sympathy is otherwise formed
30/10/23, 12:15 pm - +Smiley face: 30 October, 2023
"Competition and Compassion"
"If economics is about people, people comes with the inherited demographics and incentives, if a nation is producing less people and a fast ageing population or smaller headcount to start with? What will be the dynamics of the economics of supply & demand, a renewed social interventions and the policies and the political consequences; all pointing towards disruptions and in the worse case of chaos? What is the nature of competition and how about the limitations of compassion? How about the reverse effects given a growing population? Where then is the point of balance?"
- - anonymity
30/10/23, 12:19 pm - +KL: Then MR, NS men and NSF don't consider civilian already right? Nevertheless thanks for the explanation . <This message was edited>
30/10/23, 12:20 pm - +Smiley face: Into a heated and emotional warfare, no more civility nor compassion? Is it true to describe such a metaphorical scenario?
30/10/23, 12:21 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 12:24 pm - +Smiley face: For the last seven decades, the global citizens don't understand what war is and what are the costs thereafter in rebuilding and regaining the losses from homes, businesses and identity!
Saying all in a big essay has no profound meaning and the true essence of human sufferings and these damages are lastly in the lost minds forever and thus the birth of a perpetual cycle of revenge and hatred!
How to stop ?
30/10/23, 12:28 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Don't vote for the wrong government. They voted Putin and Hamas
30/10/23, 12:28 pm - +Jimmy Chew: And Donald hahahaha
30/10/23, 12:29 pm - +Rama: Dotard!
30/10/23, 12:30 pm - +Rama: Cannot stop!
30/10/23, 12:36 pm - +Smiley face: The solution to this old millennium conflict is perhaps striving for a balance point.
What happened cannot be unwind and what is going to escalate can be stopped?
It is not to simply sit down and have a multi ways talks to resolve all costs and look for common benefits.
The key to halt any war is benefit! More benefits the better as for the costs; it's under the bridge!
30/10/23, 12:37 pm - +Smiley face: The key in this context is "people and incentives" that will drive success for any nation and its population!
30/10/23, 12:47 pm - +Rama: Imbalance and imperfect concessions may!
30/10/23, 12:52 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
There are 2 angles to look at the middle east conflict to understand how it begins and how it will end:-
1. Political angle - mundane angle from the UN.
- we need to promote the voice of reasons, fairness, justice and even handedness.
2. Divine angle - supramundane angle
a. Abrahamic lineage - Catholics vs Christian Protestant conflict ended in 1998 - the last conflict of karma seed ended in Ireland.
b. Abrahamic lineage - Christian vs Muslim - karma seed manifest in 911 2001, and ended in 2021 after Biden announce withdrawal of US troops and UK also withdraw its troop in Afghanistan - from Iraq and Afghanistan war.
c. Now the last Abrahamic lineage -
Judaism vs Muslim war in Israel vs Palestine Hamas....
The final one when karma seed manifest in 7 Oct 2023 (also known as the Israel 911).
How will it ends ....
It is now the contest at the root and origin of the Abrahmic lineage - Gaza and West Bank.
Specifically the conflict is about East Jerusalem (50 holy places)..... + Palestine place of stay.
This is the real crux and root of the conflict.
How will it ends... I don't know.
But it will be a very bloody one....
30/10/23, 12:53 pm - +Smiley face: Isn't it obvious?
It can also be said that this world of 'Supernations' is always playing the game of balancing acts?
One entity off-balanced, the next foreign policy or international interventions will arrive to address it?
For one change will lead to more than three reactions whether it is counter measures or other means of addressing in a case of a nation going out of balance whether it is over trades or technologies or race or religion!
For smarter and smaller nations, it is best to always strike a balance both inwardly and outwardly, all micro and macro policies!
30/10/23, 12:54 pm - +Rama: There's also the economic angle to consider which can bring about military aggression.
30/10/23, 12:54 pm - +Smiley face: Wow!
30/10/23, 1:00 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The big hoo haa throughout the whole wide world is not about the fate of Palestinians 2.3 millions people.
It is about the "Holy Places" in East Jerusalem - that both the West and Muslims world are fighting over.
Only understanding the root cause of the conflict and the resolution of this root cause - can eventually and permanently end the conflict in Middle East.
Else the war is going to be very bloody - and both sides will be at one another throat.
I also know that this war will come - and indeed it finally come - as the karma seed of the final root of the Abrahmic lineage manifest. <This message was edited>
30/10/23, 1:04 pm - +Rama: Let the UN manage the whole of Jerusalem under the watchful eyes of Israel! ?
30/10/23, 1:05 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Because if the Arab world really care about the humanitarian crisis in Palestine:-
a. Egypt could just open the Sinai Peninsula.
b. Jordan could just let in the West Bank Palestinians.
Only 2.3 million Palestinians - Jordan, Egypt and Saudi very big land - the Palestine population very little, won't take up much spaces and Arab world very rich.
It is all about East Jerusalem and the holy land.
30/10/23, 1:10 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Hmm..
That's why understanding the root cause is important.
Else coming from the wrong angle humanitarian - the conflict will just go round and round.
Actually the UN and the conflicting parties keep bringing up mundane angle - and didn't address the real root cause.
Thus the conflict will just go round and round.
30/10/23, 1:13 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If everyone visit Israel, you will notice religions - Judaism, Christianity and Islams - are worship in its earliest raw form to the core everyday.
This is the real reason for the current conflict.
Place of stay, economic opportunities are just symptoms of the real root cause.
In fact this can be easily solve - as Arab Israel also live peacefully among them.
30/10/23, 1:15 pm - +Rama: The quran and the Christian holy book both emphasis on Jerusalem!
30/10/23, 1:16 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Exactly.
30/10/23, 1:16 pm - +Rama: Someone stirred the hornets nest!
30/10/23, 1:16 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This hornet nest is the root cause of this conflict.
30/10/23, 1:19 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Both sides sir down, resolve this, will resolve the war once and for all.
30/10/23, 1:21 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Once this is settle, humanitarian and land allocation - very easily settle.
30/10/23, 1:22 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Else if try to settle humanitarian and land allocation - fighting will again eruptb- and will again go round and round - vicious cycle and will never stop.
30/10/23, 1:22 pm - +Rama: Jews, Christians and Muslims religious cam sit down but must exclude hamas and hizbollah
30/10/23, 1:23 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Hamas and Hezbollah say want to annihilate Israel is a no no.
30/10/23, 1:23 pm - +~L: I'm not religious - so maybe I don't understand why people want to kill each other over a postcode or monument or a chant.
30/10/23, 1:24 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Likewise excluding Palestinians is also a no no.
30/10/23, 1:24 pm - +~L: Do true religious leaders really want to incite death?
30/10/23, 1:26 pm - +~L: I suspect it's more about financial and political wranglings than religious ones. Israel controls Gaza and life is really bad in Gaza. I'm not saying I know why, but it's a reality that affects people in Gaza and will breed resentment.
30/10/23, 1:27 pm - +~L: Ireland got solved. Less complicated for sure, but there were bombings and violence for many years.
30/10/23, 1:28 pm - +~L: Financial support for Ireland through the EU solved it, basically. Now the Nth Irish are beginning to want reunification under Ireland, not Britain.
30/10/23, 1:28 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Money no issue for Palestine - Arab world donate them with plenty of money - only whether they reach the people.
30/10/23, 1:29 pm - +Smiley face: Beliefs and Faiths; Races and Religions
30/10/23, 1:32 pm - +Rama: As also mentioned By Singapore MHA K.S.
30/10/23, 1:33 pm - +Rama: Not the intended outcome for Israel!
30/10/23, 1:33 pm - +Rama: Catholic versus protestant
30/10/23, 1:33 pm - +Rama: Great
30/10/23, 1:34 pm - +Rama: Partial only
30/10/23, 1:34 pm - +Rama: That's why our racial harmony act is important!
30/10/23, 1:35 pm - +~L: it was really british rule and historically treating the irish badly that causes and sustained the problems.
30/10/23, 1:35 pm - +~L: The religions in Ireland haven't changed but there is peace there now.
30/10/23, 1:35 pm - +Phone number: Same case here
30/10/23, 1:36 pm - +Rama: The great Michael Collins
30/10/23, 1:36 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1J23ybBnQEYeF2kQ/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 1:36 pm - +~L: What changed is a flood of money into Ireland and power sharing, oh and Brexit.
30/10/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If God is fair, it will love all not just one.
30/10/23, 1:38 pm - +Rama: God is fair but not mankind!
30/10/23, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 1:39 pm - +Rama: Reality speaks louder!
30/10/23, 1:40 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
So from this context, all the Abrahmic lineage faiths - should sit down in UN religious forum to knock this out - and once and for all settle this historic biblical conflict.
Then Israel and Palestine conflict will stop.
Else what the UN is currently doing is going to make the conflict worst.
Because it is not solving the root cause.
30/10/23, 1:41 pm - +Rama: The UN has no clout whatsoever from various conflicts after its formation!
30/10/23, 1:43 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
And what happen in Middle East don't just affect the countries there.
It reverberate all around the world - because Abrahamic lineage religions are found in almost all countries in the world.
30/10/23, 1:43 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 1:45 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
To resolve this conflict once and for all, got to take the bull by the horn.
30/10/23, 1:48 pm - +Rama: Palestinian Authority must be the only entity to negotiate with Israel on behalf of the Palestinian People and not any terrorist organisation!
30/10/23, 1:48 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/x4yrbguetPqRerpr/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 1:49 pm - +Rama: Why has no one compiled factual evidence to take Israel to the ICC crimes against humanity since its formation in 1948!?
30/10/23, 1:53 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/gq3CmeRaabg?si=_r-56jh1R_KBCalq
Will any Arabs country or any country help to supply the Kafan cloth for the sake of the grieving families and the deceased, simple and dignified burial in accordance with the religious practices? That's, another humanitarian aid to do!
30/10/23, 1:54 pm - +JC: Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Quran.
30/10/23, 1:54 pm - +Rama: Will the Arab world show solidarity, empathy and compassion!?
30/10/23, 1:55 pm - +Rama: So then, they use period of occupation as a reason!?
30/10/23, 1:55 pm - +Smiley face: Time is running faster than human reactions!
Waste no more time as we are writing....the war continues....?
30/10/23, 1:57 pm - +JC: Not sure what u mean... But just pointing out a factual error that many assumed Jerusalem is emphasized in the Quran - it isn't even mentioned.
30/10/23, 1:58 pm - +Rama: So, eat popcorn and watch from a distance!?
30/10/23, 1:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: More will come to death if continue war
30/10/23, 1:59 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 2:00 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
30/10/23, 2:02 pm - +Smiley face: Send the Kafan, medicines, water purifiers, generator sets and dried foods ready to eat without having to cook!
Kafan = just like Coffin
30/10/23, 2:03 pm - +Noraini: Singapore has always been pro-Israel, even after global March for Free Palestine, even after strike to ban Israel based corporation including Starbuck & Mac Donal
30/10/23, 2:06 pm - +JC: <Media omitted>
30/10/23, 2:08 pm - +JC: Singapore govt has always been only pro-Singapore. We are not Jewish nor Palestine nor Arabs. No reason to be "pro" any side.
30/10/23, 2:09 pm - +JC: Our govt do what's good for SG - esp so in foreign affairs.
30/10/23, 2:09 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +JC: As citizens, let's not inflame matters and make it hard for our govt to do what's best for SG.
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +Noraini: Conflict is not between Jews & Muslims, but taking over land. Don't just regurgitate narrative of mainstream media
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +Rama: Engage our politicians on this
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +Noraini: Look at Shanmug ๐๐๐
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +Rama: So, can you speak fairly for both sides!?
30/10/23, 2:10 pm - +Smiley face: Mineral water in both small and big packs!
SAF ratio packs?
30/10/23, 2:11 pm - +Rama: Look at you!
30/10/23, 2:12 pm - +JC: Mainstream media is quite pro Palestinian actually.
30/10/23, 2:12 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/8daQwqcNSgk9bVjb/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 2:12 pm - +Rama: Give us pro Palestinian media
30/10/23, 2:12 pm - +JC: Careful u don't regurgitate from social media ๐คฃ
30/10/23, 2:13 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iYpJJGSF15CmQvZ2/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 2:15 pm - +Rama: There a equivalent damage video from the son of a hamas leader who spent 27 months in a Israeli prison which is equally damaging to hamas!
30/10/23, 2:16 pm - +JC: There will b no end to this discussion - I will adhere to Shan's advice and not import arguments... Just remember we are SG, think about our national interests first. Don't be distracted by the news - there are many undercurrents that we may not know or understand.
30/10/23, 2:18 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 2:21 pm - +Rama: Just because they help build our military in 1965 when the entire world didn't want to help does not make us pro Israel! We have voted against them on occasion at the UN.
30/10/23, 2:23 pm - +Thomas: From Military standpoint, Singapore can study the Ukriane and Hamas war to better understand on how to defend ourselves. We are on our own . From the Social standpoint, I remember LKY alluded to this , where a social change is needed, we must allowed it in a democratic way else , there will be violence. The Palestine question has been lingering for a long time. The social needs for a state is not met where the palestinian's youth are allow to see a future for themselves. Maybe the violence will be lesser but their political charter must remove the mentioned of elimination of Isreal. There must be a political will to do this. I think , the British created a mess for this in 1938 and also India/Pakistan, never think careful
30/10/23, 2:24 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 2:25 pm - +Rama: 1947 India. 1948 Palestine!
30/10/23, 2:46 pm - +Smiley face: https://www.youtube.com/live/Gw6RhJAZYnQ?si=ZNxo2tf7JlVbUluw
Mutual benefits and Cordial relationships.
(Alangkah baik dan berterusannya hubungan kedua-dua negara dan Perdana Menteri yang kedua-duanya memberi manfaat kepada pembangunan ekonomi Singapura dan Malaysia.)
30/10/23, 3:14 pm - +~L: Sorry to go off topic.....
re using a mobile phone speaker on the bus or train should be classified as a public nuisance: "In the case where the offender knows that the act or omission constituting the public nuisance will cause or will probably cause any common injury, danger or annoyance to the public, the offender may be liable upon conviction to an imprisonment term of up to three months, a fine up to $2,000, or both."
I won't comment again on this, because I know today's topic is different, and I don't want to be annoying.
30/10/23, 3:14 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 3:27 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Firstly, I will like to comment on our Government stand position in the UN Resolution on the Israel and Hamas conflict.
I applaud our Government position as a "Voice of Reasons".
We need to state our position in International Stage - and help to shape the International directions towards "Voice of Reasons" --- so that member states in the World - will abide by International Laws and Charters - to preserve Peace and Mutual Prosperity.
"Amendment to UN Resolution"
2. First I will want to highlight the Canada amendment to the UN Resolution (that has not gather 2/3 votes in the UN) because this is what has trigger the current conflict :-
a. Hamas militants launch a surprise attack on Israel, kill many civlians and Israel soldiers, take 220 hostages - which is a terrorist act ---- because they are shooting many unarm innocents cold-blooded, enter into their houses, burn their houses down, mutilate many innocents and take many innocent civilians hostages.
This is a henious unacceptable terrorism - which grossly infringe International Law.
3. Hence in this context, Israel has a right to defense under the International Law - against terrorism.
Rescuing hostages, and punishing terrorists is permitted under the International Law.
But it must be done under the context of International Law - whereby actions should be taken against the militants and not the Palestine civilians.
4. Unfortunately, this amendment to the UN Resolution did not make it to the 2/3 votes - but Singapore vote supporting this Resolution is an appropriate vote - to project the "Voice of Reasons".
30/10/23, 3:35 pm - +Rama: Noraini, your comments!?
30/10/23, 3:51 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
"UN Resolution on the need for humanitarian aids"
1. Next I will like to highlight Singapore vote to support the UN Resolution.
2. Continuation from the above comments, though Israel has the right to defend themselves against terrorism, Israel must do so according to International Law - and not conduct "collective punishment" against the Palestinian civilians in Gaza that don't represent Hamas terrorist acts.
3. Depriving Palestinian civilians from water, food and medical aids - will make the uncivilians unsurvivable and bombings of civilian houses will deprive them of places to live.
4. Hence I support our Government vote to support the UN Resolution on the needs to ensure humanitarian aids and needs must be accorded to the Palestinian civilians - and ensure civilians are not targeted in Israel self-defense to hold Hama militants responsible.
5. Next, I support our Government vote - that there is a need to find a permanent solutions to the Israel and Palestine conflict - because without looking at the "Israel-Palestine" 2 States solution to coexist and live peacefully side-by-side - the vicious cycle of round-and-round violence will erupt now and then --- imperil both Israelists and Palestinians.
Both cannot live in peace and build prosperity.
The conflict between them has been centuries --- and now need the "Collective Wisdom to end it once and for all" --- then there will be Global "Religious Peace".
6. I support our Government stands and votes on both UN Resolution --- which is a more complete and holistic "Voices of Reasons".
7. However, in my heart and my mind, to effectively forge "Permanent Peace and Resolution" ---- the World, specifically the West and the Muslim World --- in fact, all the Abrahamic Lineage -- that make up of Judaism, Catholism, Christianity, Protestants, Islam ----- will need to setup a UN Religious Abrahamic Forum - laying out all their respective Holy Books --- to hash out a "Final Resolution of the Holy Lands" in Israel and Palestine.
Only through "Objective, Fairness, Justice, Even-Handness and Finall Empathy" ---- to analyse and agree on all the Holy scriptures and Holy Lands ---- can the World finally settle the "Conflicts of the Abrahamic Lineage - of all the religions under it".
Then UN after the resolution of this Abrahamic Lingeage ended with a "Final Agreement" --- can then sit down to baseline - the 2 State Solutions --- to allocated lands, governance and economy.
8. Only then, Middle East conflict can come to a "Wholesome Chapter Closure of Abrahamic conflict".
Om...
30/10/23, 4:08 pm - +Rama: My desire is to see point 7 become reality.
30/10/23, 4:08 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
"Don't import other Countries problem into Singapore"
1. Though we are mindful our the Israel-Hama conflict unfold - will affect Singapore indirectly - because it is a conflict of Abrahamic lineage and the Holy Lands --- in which many people including Singapore belong to one of the religious lineage.
2. Hence, taking sides is inevitable - because it is close to their hearts in how they practice their religions.
This is understandable.
3. But it is important that as Singaporeans - we are make up of multi-racial and multi-religious Society - whereby we live, we work, we worship, we play, we coexist peacefully and we prosper together - regardless of race, religions, languages and culture.
4. We cannot allow our diversity, our different viewpoints to divide us - because we are One Singaporean, and One Country.
5. Hence we need to project the "Voice of Reason", "Have Empathy", "Have Compassion" and always look for "Win-Win Mutual Beneficial Solutions".
Heart Willing - there will be a Mutually Acceptable Solutions.
6. Hence we will have to voice and move the World towards such solutions if we can.
Else domestically, this must be our Position and our Stand --- "Unity in Diversity".
Only then, Peace and Prosperity and Unity can be assured in our Society.
7. Our racial harmony and our religious harmony - has come a long way - and now it must be able to withstand the "Most difficult test of our time - since bibical time".
30/10/23, 4:11 pm - +Jimmy Chew: It's the fanatics that says it's okay to kill civilians to forward their cause. Started with the PLO hijackings
30/10/23, 4:12 pm - +Smiley face: Idealistically on a positive tone, it is a good start towards a multi-religious discussions at the world stage with the backdrops of the existential contestations, a highly complicated and a complex and on-going geopolitical tension.
On the negative aspect of idealism, perhaps it will be an opportunity to open a 'canned history' in the Middle-East of Asia and thereon to the rest of the world and religions!
30/10/23, 4:12 pm - +Jimmy Chew: They are guerillas when they engage the military folks
30/10/23, 4:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Nowadays believers will do anything to provoke emotions. Like the just oil protestors and the LGBT movement
30/10/23, 4:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Or feminism when they burn their bras
30/10/23, 4:14 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
30/10/23, 4:15 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The solution is "Heart Willing".
ๅคงๅฐไธๆณๅฏๅฟ้ 。
็ฑๅ ็ผ็。
ๆๅ ็ผ็ญ。
When heart willing, all universal phenomenon will come into place.
When conditions ripen, solutions will be acceptable.
When conditions are not ripen, good solutions will come to naught. <This message was edited>
30/10/23, 4:19 pm - +Rama: This message is for those who wanted but not allowed to hold rallies.
30/10/23, 4:19 pm - +Rama: Agree
30/10/23, 4:20 pm - +Rama: First world countries
30/10/23, 4:22 pm - Your security code with +65 9021 8230 changed. Tap to learn more.
30/10/23, 4:22 pm - +Rama: One thing I stand for is that Jerusalem is the rightful capital of Israel.
30/10/23, 4:48 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/bKBSBWZN5mnV6ZbD/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 4:50 pm - +Noraini: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/RX9U6DNVUsr7XkqR/?mibextid=qi2Omg
30/10/23, 4:51 pm - +Rama: Get in touch with Shanmugam personally on this!?
30/10/23, 4:53 pm - +Noraini: He is same like you
30/10/23, 4:54 pm - +Rama: Then, you have yet to know him!
30/10/23, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Your best bet is Faisal Manap from the WP. He once said religion and politics go together but got a good discussion with Shanmugam who put him in his place during a live sitting of parliament. None of the PAP malay MP Ministers will.
30/10/23, 5:17 pm - +Noraini: You mean Sam more childish than you
30/10/23, 5:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: Who can stop the war?
30/10/23, 5:25 pm - +Noraini: It is predicted there will be WW3
30/10/23, 5:25 pm - +Smiley face: Distinguished Henry Kissinger...
30/10/23, 5:26 pm - +Frankie Wee: Both side need to understand humanity and respect each other region between religions
30/10/23, 5:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: He can order command to withdraw war and f both side country must negotiate peace talk.
30/10/23, 5:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: North Korean and USA did come in Singapore summit peace withdraw nuclear. But both disagreed
30/10/23, 5:31 pm - +Rama: Sam who!?๐ณ
30/10/23, 5:31 pm - +Smiley face: Integrity without competition...
30/10/23, 5:32 pm - +Rama: This message was deleted
30/10/23, 5:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Russia and Ukraine didn’t have a good negotiating keep on insulting each other
30/10/23, 5:32 pm - +Rama: All those who are willing
30/10/23, 5:32 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 5:33 pm - +Rama: Not alone no matter how distinguished
30/10/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Nonsense
30/10/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: China and Russia assist North Korea so difficult
30/10/23, 5:35 pm - +Rama: Ye
30/10/23, 5:42 pm - +Thomas: Russia decided not to recognise any international agreement of Ukraine and their rights to exist and invade them. Singapore has to take a stand on this else whatever agreement we have with other countries will be a problem, cause we are small. Now Russia got more than they can chew and sacrifice their young and future
30/10/23, 5:43 pm - +Rama: Yes
30/10/23, 5:43 pm - +Rama: But not Israel!
30/10/23, 5:48 pm - +Rama: Minister Shanmugam, MP Faisal Manap & MP Pritam Singh Debate ...
YouTube · govsg
08-Oct-2019
30/10/23, 5:48 pm - +Rama: This is where Faisal Manap got a dressing down from K Shanmugam on religion and politics which should not mix!
30/10/23, 6:00 pm - +REACH: ๐ข *Topic* ๐ข
30/10/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
30/10/23, 6:45 pm - +Smiley face: "Iran's nuclear program was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States. On 5 March 1957, a "proposed agreement for cooperation in research in the peaceful uses of atomic energy" was announced under the Eisenhower administration's Atoms for Peace program...."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran
https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/research/online-documents/atoms-peace#:~:text=In%20his%20Atoms%20for%20Peace,into%20a%20benefit%20for%20mankind.
30/10/23, 6:46 pm - +Smiley face: ๐ *Singapore’s support for the UN resolution*
It is correct, a humane thing to do.
๐ *Regulating discourse on the Israel-Hamas conflict*
It is wiser to avoid and be measured all heated and at times highly emotional geopolitics video and overseas news that skews especially involving race and/or religion and/or gender.
๐ *Humanitarian efforts for the conflict*
It is correct to continue all humanitarian help and thereafter to chip-in to the rebuilding of the damaged homes and shops so that lives of the young and the old people can carry on living.
30/10/23, 6:50 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore's diplomatic relations with Israel 'no reason' to cause difficulty with Malaysia: PM Lee.
Malaysia Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim said his country and Singapore share a common position in that they both voted in favour of a United Nations resolution to protect civilians amid the Israel-Hamas war. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/israel-hamas-palestinian-war-malaysia-singapore-3883071
30/10/23, 6:51 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
As long as it is a "Voice of reasons" - no one will dispute our position and our stand.
30/10/23, 6:52 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
"PM Lee visits new multi-faith complex and Burj Khalifa on first official trip to UAE".
UAE coexistence of 3 faiths (Islam, Christianity and Judaism).
PM Lee write "Unity in Diversity".
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/pm-lee-visits-new-multi-faith-complex-and-burj-khalifa-on-first-official-trip-to-uae#:~:text=PM%20Lee%20visits%20new%20multi%2Dfaith%20complex%20and%20Burj%20Khalifa%20on%20first%20official%20trip%20to%20UAE
30/10/23, 6:54 pm - +~L: Let's not make the Israel/Hamas conflict about religion. I really don't believe it is about religion.
30/10/23, 6:56 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
30/10/23, 6:56 pm - +Rama: Unfortunately, it is!
30/10/23, 6:57 pm - +Rama: Agree
30/10/23, 6:57 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Temple Mount vs Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.
30/10/23, 6:57 pm - +Rama: Wth USA!?
30/10/23, 6:57 pm - +Rama: Yes.
30/10/23, 6:58 pm - +Rama: Our reason doesn't resonate with some!
30/10/23, 6:58 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Unless people live there and visit there.
Then people will know exactly what happen.
30/10/23, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: Pls read the attached information....aka datang a longer essay on IRAN....
30/10/23, 6:58 pm - +Rama: Pen pal helps update those who cannot visit
30/10/23, 6:59 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
30/10/23, 6:59 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
They fight over this.
30/10/23, 6:59 pm - +Rama: Just like USA help Osama once against Russia and Osama eventually turn on USA!
30/10/23, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
30/10/23, 7:00 pm - ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: <Media omitted>
30/10/23, 7:00 pm - +Smiley face: How about...
30/10/23, 7:01 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
30/10/23, 7:01 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
====
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