REACH 499 - What are your views on Singapore’s fast-growing ageing population due to falling birth rates and longer life expectancies? What more can we do to support young families and our ageing population?
(SK)
02 Oct 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
10/2/23, 9:45 AM - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
10/2/23, 9:58 AM - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
On 29 September, the National Population and Talent Division released its annual Population in Brief report. By 2030, 24.1% would be aged 65 and above. NPTD says that this is due to falling birth rates and longer life expectancy.
π¬ *What are your views on Singapore’s fast-growing ageing population due to falling birth rates and longer life expectancies? What more can we do to support young families and our ageing population?*
π *Rapid ageing population*
The proportion of citizens aged 65 and above is rising at a faster pace compared with the last decade. From 11.7 per cent in 2013, it spiked to 19.1 per cent in 2023. By 2030, around one in four citizens, or 24.1 per cent, will be aged 65 and above.
The report by the National Population and Talent Division said large cohorts of “baby boomers” – those born between 1946 and 1964 – have begun entering the post-65 age range. These individuals would be aged between 59 and 77 in 2023.
π *Lower rate of citizen marriages*
But the annual average number of citizen marriages in the last five years, at 22,700, remained lower than that of the preceding five years, which was 23,600.
π *Falling birth rate*
There were 30,429 citizen births in 2022, down 4 per cent from 31,713 in 2021, with the resident total fertility rate (TFR) reaching a historic low of 1.04 in 2022.
π *Singapore's total population*
Overall, Singapore’s total population stood at 5.92 million as at June 2023, rising by 5 per cent from June 2022.
The report said the average total population growth rate over the past five years was comparable to the preceding five-year period, taking into account the decline in total population in 2020 and 2021 amid the Covid-19 pandemic.
The citizen population grew by 1.6 per cent to 3.61 million in June 2023, from 3.55 million in June 2022; while the number of PRs rose by 3.7 per cent, from 0.52 million to 0.54 million, in the same time period.
π https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/record-population-592-million-rebounds-pandemic-decline-pr-citizens-3808021
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/record-number-of-citizen-marriages-in-2022-s-pore-s-population-ageing-rapidly
π https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/spore-total-population-back-above-prepandemic-level-2270376
10/2/23, 10:00 AM - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
10/2/23, 10:00 AM - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group
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10/2/23, 10:07 AM - +Rama: Work life balance with adequate subsidies and wage package
10/2/23, 10:17 AM - +Frankie Wee: Money not enough since rate birth lower so far at this age group and present 2023 need to revise package those who are marriage without child.
10/2/23, 10:19 AM - +Rama: If only money is the solution, our nation will dissappear off the face of the earth!
10/2/23, 10:28 AM - +Sh Koh: Must work then life become balance... π€£
10/2/23, 10:29 AM - +Sh Koh: But solutions govt give out so far is predominantly via $$.. just different grp get diff amt.
10/2/23, 10:31 AM - +Rama: Regular hours with fat pay check and benefits
10/2/23, 10:31 AM - +Rama: Only prolonged the inevitable!
10/2/23, 10:38 AM - +Frankie Wee: Childcare leave already balance life
10/2/23, 10:39 AM - +Darius Lee: As a father with a 1 year old and in a dual income household, I think the biggest challenge for my family has been managing the tension between work and childcare.
In the past (e.g. my own parents), the solution was to simply have one parent stay home (my mother, in my case) and one parent go out to work (my father, in my case). As my siblings and I grew older, my mother gradually went to work part time and finally back to full time work when we were all old enough.
It is a different generation with different expectations, and more women participate in the workforce. This makes the tension even more stark: how to take care of children and work at the same time?
Unsurprisingly and realistically, with rising cost of living, many people choose the option of not having children (or fewer children) and focusing on making ends meet.
Back in the day, the Government used a host of disincentives to limit population growth and "Stop at Two".
Is the Government prepared to go full throttle in the opposite direction to encourage birth rates, or will the solutions only be piecemeal, bit by bit?
That will not look good for Singapore in the long term
10/2/23, 10:41 AM - +KL: It is because they can hire lower wages across border it such a simple logic
10/2/23, 10:41 AM - +KL: Thus with these no one can afford to have a child in long run
10/2/23, 10:42 AM - +Rama: Never had a road map for this properly!
10/2/23, 10:42 AM - +Rama: Procreation improved!?
10/2/23, 10:42 AM - +Frankie Wee: Got baby bonus but parent has to pay balance mortgage housing and expenses included insurance.
Costing is rising must be address the mortgage affected
10/2/23, 10:42 AM - +Rama: Agree
10/2/23, 10:42 AM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 10:43 AM - +Sh Koh: Childcare leave help... but these are really short term.
10/2/23, 10:43 AM - +KL: If u took many leave it will affect ur kpi in employment
10/2/23, 10:44 AM - +Frankie Wee: Yes no choice because of money need to pay expenses
10/2/23, 10:45 AM - +Frankie Wee: Work balance life mean don’t overwork or stay late OT when child are not happy spent time family life balance.
10/2/23, 10:45 AM - +KL: U can’t fault the boss as it really impact and in the end the job goes out of Singapore than u have 5 unemployment
10/2/23, 10:45 AM - +KL: So to sacrifice one or 5 it a obvious choice
10/2/23, 10:46 AM - +Frankie Wee: There are more foreigner in company standby
10/2/23, 10:46 AM - +KL: Headcount won’t approve
10/2/23, 10:47 AM - +KL: So to retrain a person is 6 month so your workload will now handle by 4 person . These ppl not happy cos wages low and yes foreigner at standby and leadership will be question . It involve a lot of stuff
10/2/23, 10:48 AM - +KL: So managers will need to think
10/2/23, 10:48 AM - +KL: What the best option
10/2/23, 10:48 AM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 10:48 AM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 10:48 AM - +Frankie Wee: Singapore come first they foreigner choice to live here or leave
10/2/23, 10:49 AM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 10:49 AM - +KL: We now seem to be in sticky inflation.
10/2/23, 10:49 AM - +Rama: Surface inspiration only!
10/2/23, 10:52 AM - +Frankie Wee: I feeling sensible govt welcome foreigner in or investment so let Singapore give to foreigners worker and get not much salary it’s a fair free trade agreement.
What is a fair Singaporean can take life balance work and right human being fairly
10/2/23, 10:56 AM - +Sh Koh: The work culture must change.. not to 'discriminate' workers placing family as priority.
10/2/23, 10:56 AM - +Sh Koh: Or like demanding work after working times
10/2/23, 10:56 AM - +Frankie Wee: EP and SP are mid skill level with salary high pay than local
10/2/23, 10:57 AM - +Frankie Wee: So I give in them while leave in office since time
10/2/23, 11:00 AM - +Sh Koh: Govt is always so afraid we will lose company competitive if our workforce is unable to match in terms of productivity..
10/2/23, 11:00 AM - +Sh Koh: Cheaper faster better ...
10/2/23, 11:01 AM - +Frankie Wee: Ai is on the way everything is changed
10/2/23, 11:44 AM - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
π¬ *What are your views on Singapore’s fast-growing ageing population due to falling birth rates and longer life expectancies? What more can we do to support young families and our ageing population?*
Megan π
10/2/23, 12:05 PM - +Joseph Yap: π¬ What are your views on Singapore’s fast-growing ageing population due to falling birth rates and longer life expectancies? What more can we do to support young families and our ageing population?
Rising healthcare expense is a major trend going forward.
To cope with rising healthcare subsidies and without compromising on other important expenditures, the government has to be more innovative in taxation policy, consider wealth tax on top of conventional income/ consumption tax.
To help individuals to prepare themselves better with rising healthcare expenses in future, consider to raise the Medisave contribution ceiling so that more are kept aside for healthcare needs.
To help young families that support their ageing parents, consider to raise the eligible income tax rebates.
10/2/23, 12:19 PM - +Andrea: Government has so far been taking a piecemeal approach to increasing support for parents to have children. Paternity leave is increased by 2 weeks, but on a "voluntary" basis for employers. CDA is being topped up by a few hundred, baby bonus increased by few k every few years.
While Singapore's TFR is on a decimal point scale and any improvement even in terms of decimals is great, the government needs to realise that parents don't think in terms of incremental approaches when planning for children. They don't think of having children in terms of 0.1, or 0.2 kids. Each additional child for a family is a huge lifetime commitment and accompanying such decisions are huge lifestyle changes.
A friend used this analogy: just as slow and small increases in the temperature of a pot will not cause the frog to hop, slow and small increases in aid will not cause the decline of birth rates to stop.
So unless the government is willing to do something drastic to reverse the tide of falling birth rates, spending a whole parliamentary debate just for 2 additional weeks of "voluntary" paternity leave and the like is not going to cut it.
10/2/23, 12:20 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 12:21 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha taxing more is an innovative approach. Wealth and health tax! I hope they are joking
10/2/23, 12:22 PM - +Sh Koh: Beyond using $$ cash incentives how abt parent care leave.
10/2/23, 12:29 PM - +Rama: Are local employers pro family or just pro profit only!?
10/2/23, 12:29 PM - +JC: there is only one solution to this problem:
Accelerate immigration and open up new pathways to citizenship.
The goal of the govt is to manage this transition as seamlessly as possible by
(1) ensuring there is sufficient excess capacities for public services (e.g. education, healthcare, transport, housing)
(2) build creative community integration programs to allow better assimilation of new immigrants
Our govt must spend significant $$ on these initiative. Unlike COVID - which is an acute event - ageing population is a slow burn, but it's no less devastating if the govt decides to drag their feet over spending $$ on these initiatives.
Do this and the population won't be complaining about the Population Whitepaper.
10/2/23, 12:31 PM - +Andrea: If there is a choice between spending money on bringing in and assimilating immigrants, vs spending money on increasing birth rates by Singaporeans, which should the government prioritise?
10/2/23, 12:32 PM - +Rama: Both in the right proportion until local birth rates reaches a desired level.
10/2/23, 12:34 PM - +Sh Koh: What's a right level ? Using definition of Spore core for workforce doesn't mean need singaporean.. as we learn
10/2/23, 12:42 PM - +Rama: That's something only to be decided by those sitting in grc and relevant support groups advising the government.
10/2/23, 12:48 PM - +Bhavani: There is already a 5.92 million population in Singapore causing overcrowding in trains and buses, rising prices due to demand of goods and services from too many people, overconsumption which leads to the accumulation of rubbish. What we really need are advancement of AI technologies to help the elderly. Parents should have the right to decide if they want children or not. With climate change and the unbearable heat, we need to focus more on the environment.
10/2/23, 12:49 PM - +JC: there's little evidence globally that any program can increase birth rates in a developed economy - if there's anything workable, I'm pretty sure our ministries will be rolling them out already.
Even if there's something that works
- what is magnitude of increase? 3%? 5%? Is that enough to cover for our manpower shortfall in our society? (unlikely)
- can we wait another 20 years before seeing the fruits of this hypothetical policy actually impacting our society? (no we cannot)
10/2/23, 12:50 PM - +Bhavani: We must focus our attention on Singaporeans especially elderly Singaporeans born and bred here who are suffering from the crowds.
10/2/23, 12:50 PM - +Bhavani: This is true respect to the elderly
10/2/23, 12:51 PM - +JC: that's super short term thinking.
- we got not enough nurses, not enough soldiers, not enough policemen, doctors, teachers, etc. without solving the population issue.
10/2/23, 12:52 PM - +Rama: Lessening the crowd only is not a solution when the whole population and country is suffering!
10/2/23, 12:52 PM - +Rama: Young and old alike!
10/2/23, 12:52 PM - +Rama: My sentiments exactly!
10/2/23, 12:53 PM - +Bhavani: Already hospitals and polyclinics are overflowing
10/2/23, 12:54 PM - +Andrea: Agreed that manpower shortfall must be dealt with in the short term, so there must be a balance. Another thing to consider is essential services that concern national security eg our military. Is our military / police force going to be made up of foreigners?
10/2/23, 12:54 PM - +Bhavani: Just imagine patients suffering from mutiple serious conditions who are unable to access doctors urgently due to the crowds
10/2/23, 12:55 PM - +Rama: How does less overcrowding help when government is doing the level best to expand and cope!?
10/2/23, 12:56 PM - +Bhavani: It is not about expanding and coping. Expanding only leads to more concrete buildings as I've said before
10/2/23, 12:58 PM - +JC: any military/police job taken up by a local here means there's one less local to do the job in another part of the economy... zero sum game.
10/2/23, 12:58 PM - +Rama: Be a doctor or nurse then!
10/2/23, 12:58 PM - +Rama: Your thoughts don't hold promise for the solution!
10/2/23, 12:58 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 12:59 PM - +Bhavani: Your's doesn't too!
10/2/23, 12:59 PM - +Bhavani: Please stop making personal statements
10/2/23, 1:00 PM - +Rama: I leave it to the experts before giving my two cents worth!
10/2/23, 1:00 PM - +Bhavani: Let the government decide whether my thoughts are worth or not
10/2/23, 1:01 PM - +JC: Actually the reason why we are suffering from overcrowding in hospital is because many foreigners have left SG to work in other countries where the pay/work-life balance for healthcare workers is much better (e.g. NZ/AU) ; current manpower attrition is terrible and COVID made it even worse.
10/2/23, 1:01 PM - +Rama: I suggest you join forces with the opposition instead for the future of the country!
10/2/23, 1:01 PM - +Bhavani: I do not need participants here telling me that my thoughts are not worth it. This is because this is not a debating platform <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 1:01 PM - +JC: less people working in hospital means patients need to wait longer to get their service.
10/2/23, 1:02 PM - +Rama: You very limited understanding!
10/2/23, 1:02 PM - +Bhavani: The issue is not less doctors. The issue is overcrowding of patients.
10/2/23, 1:02 PM - +Bhavani: Megan please tell Rama to stop advising me
10/2/23, 1:02 PM - +JC: I work in the health sector. I can tell u that you are wrong.
10/2/23, 1:03 PM - +JC: the issue is exactly the opposite of what you are thinking.
10/2/23, 1:03 PM - +Bhavani: I am a patient myself so I know how long it takes to see the doctor.
10/2/23, 1:03 PM - +JC: yes
10/2/23, 1:03 PM - +JC: but u don't know why it takes so long
10/2/23, 1:04 PM - +Rama: Nonsense!
10/2/23, 1:04 PM - +JC: do u know some new hospitals/clinics cannot fully open up their wards/clinics because there's not enough manpower?
10/2/23, 1:04 PM - +Rama: Know the other side of the coin!
10/2/23, 1:04 PM - +JC: means building is built, ready to go. but not enough staff.
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +Bhavani: We do not need more staff in the age of AI
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +JC: which means those patients that are supposed to go to the new hospital/clinic, end up squeezing with you at the existing hospital/clinic
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +JC: hahahahahhahah
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +Rama: And a smaller population and others from outside helps!?
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +JC: tell me which AI can take ur blood
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +JC: which AI can inject your vaccine
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +Rama: Exactly @
10/2/23, 1:05 PM - +Rama: Which!?
10/2/23, 1:06 PM - +Rama: Nonsense!
10/2/23, 1:06 PM - +Rama: π³π€·♂️π€¦♂️π
10/2/23, 1:06 PM - +Bhavani: Robots are already in some hospitals
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +Rama: Insufficient!
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +JC: another fact: because public sector hospitals are short on funding, they cannot pay enough wages for AI developers to develop AI applications to help them. Most of the best AI programmers don't work in healthcare.
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +Bhavani: We need a smaller population so that we do not need so many doctors
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +JC: and most of these AI programmers aren't in Singapore.
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +Bhavani: We can train the locals
10/2/23, 1:07 PM - +JC: I tot u want to take care of elderly?
10/2/23, 1:08 PM - +JC: u want less crowded hospitals, want elderly to be taken care of but u want less nurses, less doctors?
10/2/23, 1:08 PM - +Rama: You are out of touch with reality!
10/2/23, 1:08 PM - +JC: hahahhahaah
10/2/23, 1:09 PM - +Bhavani: I already told you to stop advising me.
10/2/23, 1:09 PM - +Frankie Wee: Go to private clinic
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +Bhavani: I am only providing feedback to the government. The government can decide which feedback it wants to choose.
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +Frankie Wee: Regardless is no complaint
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +JC: this I agree :D
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +Bhavani: Not everyone has the money to go to a private clinic
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +Bhavani: Govt hospitals are already so expensive
10/2/23, 1:10 PM - +JC: yep, we just sharing with you so you understand better why the govt cannot take ur feedback. it's not the govt's fault.
10/2/23, 1:11 PM - +Rama: This is fair comment in a public domain!
10/2/23, 1:11 PM - +Frankie Wee: Then has patience for while unless if need urgent π¨ A & E
10/2/23, 1:11 PM - +JC: truth.
10/2/23, 1:11 PM - +Rama: Your feedback doesn't hold water or promise for citizens and the country!
10/2/23, 1:12 PM - +Frankie Wee: It’s normal ppl go to polyclinic
10/2/23, 1:12 PM - +Rama: Exactly!
10/2/23, 1:12 PM - +Bhavani: The same goes for you
10/2/23, 1:12 PM - +Rama: Y3s
10/2/23, 1:13 PM - +Bhavani: Only a person suffering from multiple conditions can understand what's it like to face the crowds in polyclinics etc
10/2/23, 1:13 PM - +Rama: In the opposition camp, I hope they appoint you to a suitable ministerial position to bring us out if the dark ages as you see it!
10/2/23, 1:14 PM - +Bhavani: I only said what I experience in the polyclinics etc
10/2/23, 1:15 PM - +JC: I understand why u feel that way... all of us will need public healthcare at some point in our life.
10/2/23, 1:15 PM - +Rama: There is appropriate levels of referral and expertise!
10/2/23, 1:15 PM - +Rama: Then, you don't see the bigger picture of the situation!
10/2/23, 1:16 PM - +Rama: Public health care is most affordable for the masses!
10/2/23, 1:16 PM - +Bhavani: There is no bigger picture than the crowds we face daily
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +Rama: You are still living in 1965!
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +JC: u are right to say that it is very crowded in the public healthcare system.
I think the solution is to hire more immigrants to help us with our manpower issue. If we have less immigrants, the crowds in the hospitals/polyclinics will be even worse.
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +Bhavani: What about those who have no income?
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +Bhavani: Suffering from multiple conditions so unable to work
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +Rama: There various support subsidies schemes!
10/2/23, 1:17 PM - +JC: remember, most immigrants are not old - they are young working adults, very valuable to our economy and can really help our society.
10/2/23, 1:18 PM - +Rama: Family social services is the first avenue to refer for assistance!
10/2/23, 1:18 PM - +Bhavani: As far as I'm concerned, we do not need any more immigrants
10/2/23, 1:19 PM - +Bhavani: 5.92 million is way too much already
10/2/23, 1:19 PM - +Frankie Wee: No issue 5.92m since to birth rate
10/2/23, 1:20 PM - +Rama: Then, live like a hermit!
10/2/23, 1:20 PM - +Frankie Wee: Per as GDP may gain higher and more productivity
10/2/23, 1:20 PM - +Rama: Consider the rapid ageing population and declined birth rate!
10/2/23, 1:21 PM - +JC: MOH's biggest headache now is that the more qualified nurses/healthcare professionals are no longer keen to come to Singapore. Other countries are offering better pay and work-life balance. Now we need to turn to countries where we know the healthcare education standards are not as good. it's going to get worse before it gets better.
10/2/23, 1:22 PM - +Bhavani: I don't think any child wants to be born in an overcrowded environment.
10/2/23, 1:22 PM - +JC: Immigrants can help u... help all of us. 5.92m is just a number, ultimately what you care about it whether ur life is good/bad right?
10/2/23, 1:22 PM - +Bhavani: Where is life good? Everywhere we go, there are crowds.
10/2/23, 1:23 PM - +JC: the crowds isn't cos of 5.9m
10/2/23, 1:23 PM - +Bhavani: Queues everywhere <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 1:23 PM - +JC: city life is like tat la
10/2/23, 1:23 PM - +JC: unless u want to live in kampong
10/2/23, 1:24 PM - +JC: live in countryside no crowds
10/2/23, 1:24 PM - +JC: that's for sure
10/2/23, 1:24 PM - +JC: but we in Singapore
10/2/23, 1:24 PM - +JC: unless migrate to msia
10/2/23, 1:24 PM - +JC: I guarantee u, Lim Chu Kang farm area also no crowds
10/2/23, 1:25 PM - +JC: crowd is good -> means more demand for goods/services, hence need to build more, more jobs, better economy
10/2/23, 1:25 PM - +JC: no crowd = COVID times = lockdown
10/2/23, 1:25 PM - +JC: economy bad
10/2/23, 1:26 PM - +Bhavani: Unsustainable goods lead to pollution and rubbish
10/2/23, 1:26 PM - +JC: u are right that more consumption = more pollution tho
10/2/23, 1:26 PM - +JC: if we really want to be eco-friendly, live like a monk
10/2/23, 1:26 PM - +JC: stay home, eat simple
10/2/23, 1:27 PM - +JC: then u will have less rubbish
10/2/23, 1:27 PM - +JC: but that's a personal choice
10/2/23, 1:27 PM - +JC: u do that, u don't need to worry about crowds
10/2/23, 1:27 PM - +Bhavani: Due to the crowds, the disabled find it difficult to find seats on mrt and buses.
10/2/23, 1:28 PM - +JC: yes we need to make our city more friendly to disabled people
10/2/23, 1:28 PM - +JC: but we can only afford to do that if our economy is good
10/2/23, 1:28 PM - +JC: there's a lot of things u can do when economy is good and u have money
10/2/23, 1:29 PM - +JC: if economy is bad, maybe disabled will find seats easier on mrt/buses, but everyone else suffers
10/2/23, 1:30 PM - +Bhavani: Economy is bad only because of overcrowding
10/2/23, 1:30 PM - +Frankie Wee: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/download-these-antivirus-apps-csa-urges-in-latest-drive-against-cybercrooks
10/2/23, 1:30 PM - +Frankie Wee: Just to share with this
10/2/23, 1:30 PM - +JC: hahahah
10/2/23, 1:31 PM - +JC: then our economy is peak during COVID
10/2/23, 1:31 PM - +JC: need to have more COVID
10/2/23, 1:31 PM - +Frankie Wee: Hearing about Android 3rd download party was attack malware and victim loss money by scam <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 1:31 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha any issue is a government fault because they didn't think ahead π
10/2/23, 1:32 PM - +Jimmy Chew: We're busy making Money. The ministries are involved in public good
10/2/23, 1:32 PM - +Bhavani: We don't need unsustainable jobs like construction, manufacturing of unsustainable products, unsustainable restaurants which sell foods laden with cancer causing additives
10/2/23, 1:34 PM - +JC: don't worry, climate change isn't because of what Singapore is doing.... we only one small dot.
10/2/23, 1:45 PM - +JC: btw - one of the more sustainable ways to run a polyclinic is to make sure it is always very crowded. Why? Because when we accept crowded polyclinics, we don't need to build more polyclinics which will leave a much higher carbon footprint than if we make patients like u wait longer.
Sometimes what you want - e.g. sustainability vs. no crowds - can be in conflict with each other. Just be aware of that when you consider these issues.
10/2/23, 1:49 PM - +Frankie Wee: Balance manpower each building = employment get pay.
If more building there will be empty business.
10/2/23, 1:55 PM - +Bhavani: We must not forget that the crowds are not just due to locals
10/2/23, 1:56 PM - +JC: Mostly, more than 80% local. Guarantee
10/2/23, 1:57 PM - +JC: And that % is getting higher cos local population is getting older and need more healthcare
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +JC: Bottom line - immigrants aren't ur problem... they are actually e solution to your problem. π u picking on the wrong people.
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +Bhavani: When people are waiting a long time, this time could be better spent doing what they love instead of waiting at the polyclinics for so many hours. Moreover, too much time waiting can also increase the chances of infection.
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +JC: Ya but that will b less sustainable
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +Bhavani: Hi I don't agree due to valid reasons.
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +JC: ??
10/2/23, 1:58 PM - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
10/2/23, 1:59 PM - +JC: And ur valid reasons are??
10/2/23, 2:00 PM - +Rama: No choice!
10/2/23, 2:00 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 2:00 PM - +Bhavani: I mentioned so many like overcrowding, depletion of forests (in an earlier feedback), too much construction activities etc
10/2/23, 2:01 PM - +Bhavani: There is a choice if we have a will
10/2/23, 2:01 PM - +JC: Those aren't valid reasons... those r problems that u see π u need to understand why these problems happen...
10/2/23, 2:02 PM - +Rama: Only if you are our next PM!
10/2/23, 2:02 PM - +JC: And understand why solutions r difficult
10/2/23, 2:02 PM - +Bhavani: Of course they are valid reasons <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:02 PM - +Rama: The world has changed drastically for the worst!
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +JC: Check dictionary... "Problem" is not the same meaning as "reason"
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +Rama: Give us your solution!?
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +JC: U faced valid problems... that is true
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +Rama: Who said it was!?
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +JC: Don't confuse problems with reasons behind the problems
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 2:03 PM - +Rama: Exactly!
10/2/23, 2:04 PM - +Bhavani: Hello have you not read alternative sites? Many people are complaining about overcrowding not just me
10/2/23, 2:06 PM - +Bhavani: For young seniors and the elderly (including the disabled), overcrowding is especially a torture <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:06 PM - +JC: Helloooo yes have u not understood that overcrowding is not because of immigrants but because of ageing population and lack of healthcare manpower??
10/2/23, 2:07 PM - +REACH: Dear Contributors, let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion ☺️
10/2/23, 2:07 PM - +Thomas: Try living in HK or even UK , then tell me about it
10/2/23, 2:08 PM - +Bhavani: We must not compare with other countries.
10/2/23, 2:08 PM - +Bhavani: We have to improve the situation ourselves.
10/2/23, 2:08 PM - +JC: We must compare to fantasyland instead... let's have our cake and eat it
10/2/23, 2:09 PM - +Bhavani: Does the ageing population not consist of new citizens etc?
10/2/23, 2:09 PM - +JC: Yes... by having more immigrants to solve healthcare manpower issues!
10/2/23, 2:10 PM - +Frankie Wee: Singapore is the same size island as HK think of how u compare
10/2/23, 2:10 PM - +JC: It does not. Most of e ageing population are old citizens. New immigrants are almost always younger, working age people.
10/2/23, 2:10 PM - +Frankie Wee: Environment differently from HK
10/2/23, 2:11 PM - +Bhavani: Give me the evidence to prove it
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Bhavani: Remember that the new citizens are also leading to the heavy queues and overcrowding everywhere
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Thomas: Maybe have your children start working in the construction, blue collar work , nursing and engineering first . If we can solve this problem without immigrants , then we talk about it
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Rama: Government is well aware!
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Bhavani: You talk as if new citizens are more precious than the seniors
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Frankie Wee: Less crowded then back to 1990s STI index lowest level.
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +JC: https://www.statista.com/statistics/693028/immigrant-stock-of-singapore-by-age/
10/2/23, 2:12 PM - +Rama: Present your solution to the government directly!
10/2/23, 2:13 PM - +Rama: Agree as government mindful
10/2/23, 2:14 PM - +Bhavani: We do not need more buildings!!!
10/2/23, 2:14 PM - +Rama: It's how we leverage and make adjustments to suit us!
10/2/23, 2:14 PM - +Rama: Yes, we do!
10/2/23, 2:15 PM - +Rama: Your intellect leaves much to be desired!
10/2/23, 2:15 PM - +Bhavani: Yours too!!!!
10/2/23, 2:15 PM - +JC: <Media omitted>
10/2/23, 2:16 PM - +Bhavani: This message was deleted
10/2/23, 2:16 PM - +Frankie Wee: Maybe you would like to have Ai robot fully automated and unnecessary bring more foreigner job opportunities. Local people will have more space and less crowds
10/2/23, 2:16 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 2:17 PM - +Rama: π³ππ€·♂️
10/2/23, 2:17 PM - +Thomas: Don't talk about new building. Maintain the building plus road , can your children work there or wish your children to work there ?
10/2/23, 2:17 PM - +Bhavani: I think you are being rude for the sake of it.
10/2/23, 2:18 PM - +Rama: Exactly!
10/2/23, 2:18 PM - +JC: Please acknowledge the evidence... thank you
10/2/23, 2:21 PM - +Rama: I doubt she can!
10/2/23, 2:22 PM - +Bhavani: Whether new or old immigrants, they are overcrowding Singapore and we young seniors and the elderly (not new citizens) are suffering unbearably because of them
10/2/23, 2:23 PM - +JC: Ok I surrender hahahah have a good day everyone!
10/2/23, 2:23 PM - +Thomas: Think we are going round in circles . Bordering on racist elements here
10/2/23, 2:24 PM - +REACH: Dear Contributors, let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion ☺️
10/2/23, 2:24 PM - +Bhavani: There is nothing racist in my comments
10/2/23, 2:24 PM - +Rama: Possibly
10/2/23, 2:25 PM - +Bhavani: Did I mention any race here? This is ridiculous
10/2/23, 2:25 PM - +Thomas: "suffering unbearable" has implication. Do not need to be clear in your comments but the implication tells
10/2/23, 2:25 PM - +Rama: I'm still in the game!
10/2/23, 2:26 PM - +Rama: π€·♂️
10/2/23, 2:26 PM - +Bhavani: You are being racist by saying I'm being racist!!
10/2/23, 2:26 PM - +Rama: π³π€¦♂️
10/2/23, 2:26 PM - +Bhavani: I was only talking about overcrowding. Where did I mention any race?
10/2/23, 2:27 PM - +REACH: <Media omitted>
10/2/23, 2:28 PM - +Frankie Wee: @6589444030 give a good idea positive comment and idea supportive <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:28 PM - +Rama: Yes!
10/2/23, 2:29 PM - +Frankie Wee: No matter how crowded and cost of living everyone have a solution
10/2/23, 2:30 PM - +Rama: Agree
10/2/23, 2:35 PM - +Bhavani: The only solution is to reduce the crowds
10/2/23, 2:35 PM - +Rama: Only through deaths!
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Frankie Wee: Still need time to work out govt policies decisions and your comments is here already.
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Bhavani: Only by avoiding letting more people in
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Rama: Government policies will control and not reduce the crowd!
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Frankie Wee: We will see 2030 emission carbon reduce
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Rama: Nonsense!
10/2/23, 2:36 PM - +Rama: Agree
10/2/23, 2:37 PM - +Bhavani: Only your comments are completely nonsense!
10/2/23, 2:37 PM - +JC: The "final" solution you mean?
10/2/23, 2:38 PM - +Rama: To you unfortunately!π
10/2/23, 2:38 PM - +Bhavani: I only meant do not bring more people into Singapore
10/2/23, 2:39 PM - +Bhavani: It is already way too crowded <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:39 PM - +Rama: Not possible!
10/2/23, 2:39 PM - +Rama: Part and parcel!
10/2/23, 2:41 PM - +Bhavani: We true blue Singaporeans born and brought up in this land, our human rights must not be trampled upon by new citizens.
10/2/23, 2:41 PM - +Rama: Present your white paper to the government!
10/2/23, 2:41 PM - +Bhavani: Of course not!!
10/2/23, 2:41 PM - +Rama: Substantiate!
10/2/23, 2:42 PM - +JC: U starting to sound like someone we learn from history... you know the guy from Germany with a small mustache and extreme side parting....
10/2/23, 2:42 PM - +Bhavani: Come on don't be ridiculous <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:42 PM - +Rama: AH!
10/2/23, 2:43 PM - +Rama: The one who promoted the idea of a Aryan Race!
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +Bhavani: I never mentioned race at any point
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +Bhavani: Stop talking about race!!!
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +JC: lack of "living space", "true blooded"... "trampled upon"...
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +JC: getting really familiar sounding
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +JC: lol
10/2/23, 2:44 PM - +Bhavani: I have a right to my opinion
10/2/23, 2:45 PM - +JC: guess the Germans in 1930s don't like the overcrowding hospitals and the long queues for the food stamps too
10/2/23, 2:45 PM - +Rama: Or was CC also from Germany! ?
10/2/23, 2:45 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 2:45 PM - +Rama: π
10/2/23, 2:46 PM - +JC: adding to that high inflation and high cost of living... wew too bad our army is too small.
10/2/23, 2:46 PM - +Rama: Vulnerable
10/2/23, 2:46 PM - +JC: otherwise we be in the same situation as pre-WW2 Germany
10/2/23, 2:47 PM - +Bhavani: All of you have a right to your opinions too so I'm not going to argue here anymore. Let the government decide which feedback is useful to them.
10/2/23, 2:47 PM - +Bhavani: I am not coming here anymore
10/2/23, 2:48 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 2:48 PM - +Rama: You will be missed!
10/2/23, 2:48 PM - +Bhavani: Thank you Reach for giving me the opportunity to provide feedback
10/2/23, 2:48 PM - +JC: we value ur opinion but good to be more open minded.
10/2/23, 2:48 PM - +JC: otherwise it's sad
10/2/23, 2:52 PM - +Rama: Please continue to give your feedback via email with attachments or online
10/2/23, 2:53 PM - +Bhavani: There is nothing open minded about crowdedness
10/2/23, 2:53 PM - +REACH: Dear Contributors,
This is the third reminder requesting that contributors be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion. It is everyone’s responsibility to make this online space a safe and conducive one for all contributors to share views and feedback on national issues. Please be reminded of the Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-WhatsApp-terms.
Thank you.
Megan <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 2:53 PM - +Bhavani: Hi I do not need your advice.
10/2/23, 2:53 PM - +REACH: <Media omitted>
10/2/23, 2:54 PM - +Bhavani: As I've only been facing rudeness and put me downs, I am no longer going to give my views here.
10/2/23, 2:54 PM - +Rama: How wrong you are!
10/2/23, 2:55 PM - +Bhavani: Are you God to tell me so?
10/2/23, 2:55 PM - +Rama: Part and parcel of open minded civic opinions
10/2/23, 2:55 PM - +Rama: Unfortunately, you might be my only subject!
10/2/23, 2:56 PM - +Bhavani: Please stop arguing with me!
10/2/23, 2:56 PM - +Andrea: Let's leave this topic for a while and let others share their views :)
10/2/23, 2:56 PM - +Rama: I'm giving my alternative opinion on your opinion
10/2/23, 3:00 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
*Singaporean Core*
1. Firstly, I feel that there is a need to have a strong Singaporean core - whereby Singaporeans young families married, give birth and start a family to achieve minimally 2 babies to ensure our TFR is 2.0 to ensure replacement level.
2. Singaporean cores is important to ensure we inherit our Singapore culture and values as Singaporeans among the 4 races, the way we live, we study, we work, we play and the way social interaction, tolerance, compassion, empathy, racial harmony and progress.
3. Having a strong Singaporean core is also important to find and develop sufficient talents to fill up many vital sectors such as the Government, Defense, Homeland, Finance etc.
4. Hence efforts must be made to encourage young couples to start a family, get married and have babies, educate them and eventually grow up to contribute to the Society and the Country.
10/2/23, 3:06 PM - +Noraini: Basic need of family - food, logding. Recent news of family to receive key 15 years after application, resale flats sold above $1m. Who are are buyers of these Bt Panjang flats. New citizen. Why local take so long. Competition with new citizen?
10/2/23, 3:10 PM - +Thomas: Possible new citizen or those who sold their private properties , wait out the period and buy the HDB. My HDB block , a number of Mercedes , BMW and Volvo in the HDB carpark and stay in HDB flats. I have seen some of them and they are rich Singaporean in HDB ?
10/2/23, 3:14 PM - +Frankie Wee: Yes they sold it 10 years after move to HDB executives room or they come from rich family bough HDB fully paid
10/2/23, 3:15 PM - +KL: Sorry Dan, if I remember incorrectly . I always thought you use to more suppprtive of open door policies , what cause the shift in view to Singapore core ? I do apologise if I remember or interpret incorrectly :)
I do agree w u on your point but it a bit too late for me thou :) cos too many singles cause by the influx of ppl from 2010 to now . The wages for local becomes lesser and cause singles <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 3:16 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Not yet, I still typing.
I only support what is most logical and objective.
10/2/23, 3:23 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
*Immigrants*
1. However, as much as we like, like many developed Countries, many young who face challenges in life, value freedom lifestyle, may not see having descendants to for replacement or joy to the family as their priorities - may stay single, get married but not having babies or have fewer babies - that lead to our TFR to 1.04 below replacement level of TFR 2.0.
2. Hence, there is a need to identify and address what challenges the young are facing in their lives and try to address them - so as to facilitate and make the young easier and more willing to start a family, get married and have babies.
3. Meanwhile, there is a need to fill up our population gaps as we need talents, workers and people to :-
a. Fill jobs in the Economy - to ensure our industries, business, service sectors etc will have sufficient talents and workers to keep our Economy going and humming.
b. Need to find talents in areas in which Singaporeans lack skillsets in eg. Tackling climate change we need Netherland experts and other Countries experts to stop rising seawater from flooding Singapore coasts and inlands, quantum computing experts to secure our IT security in Government, Security, banks and other industrial sectors, Biometric security and AI threats, Nuclear fusion experts, Healthcare and epidemic, alternative meat, food, protein etc.
Or blue collar workers that the Economy needs, eg. nurse, chef, hawkers, barbers, construction workers etc.
4. Hence, there is a need to bring in more talented immigrants and convert them into Singaporeans ensuring that they will share Singapore values, able to embrace our cultures, immerse into our Society and become a part of us.
Hopefully they will also start a family, married and have babies - go to National Service, be a part of our education, join workforce - and eventually become a part of us ---- making Singapore stronger and inclusive - and become our Singaporean Core.
5. Of course, Singaporean Core will be required to fill jobs in our vital and security sectors - eg. Government, Defense, Homeland Security, Finance, Technologies and other vital sectors e.g Infrastructure, Energy, Water, Food etc.
10/2/23, 3:27 PM - +KL: I realise a lot of couple have one PR ( offer but did not convert ) and one Citizen ( convert / or local ) Seem like they planning to run road once sg got issue how can we address this ? Seem to me they got δΊεΏ , convert when old ard 40 yrs old cos PR medical bill more than local <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 3:30 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 3:30 PM - +Rama: Ridiculous!
10/2/23, 3:33 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Or they prefer other country spouses than their own. My wife is a foreigner. It's by coincidence we met and continue until today π. Can't think of anyone else to create a life and family with hahaha
10/2/23, 3:34 PM - +Jimmy Chew: She is a citizen but longs for home because her parents and relatives are there but don't like the way the country is run
10/2/23, 3:34 PM - +Rama: Understand
10/2/23, 3:34 PM - +REACH: Dear Contributor,
Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion.
Thank you.
Megan
10/2/23, 3:34 PM - +Jimmy Chew: She is vocal when our government doesn't behave well
10/2/23, 3:34 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Vocal to me to voice her displeasure hahaha
10/2/23, 3:35 PM - +Jimmy Chew: I think there's a space for others to help us grow for the better for our future generations
10/2/23, 3:40 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
*How big our Population should be*
1. The question is - what is our total population is considered enough?
2. Probably the following parameters will give us some clue how big our population should be, is considered enough:-
a. How many talents required to fill the Government, Defense, Homeland Security.
b. How many talents required to fill our vital Infrasturture and industrial sectors eg. Water, Energy, Food, SeaPorts, Airports, Transport, Finance, Manufacturing, Technologies, Healthcare, Education, Social Services etc.
c. Housing capacities - HDB flats, Apartments, Condos, Landed properties etc.
d. Supporting infrastructure facilites eg. MRT, Buses, Public and Private hires etc, roads, shopping malls, hospitals, schools, industrial estates, retail facilities, f&b, leisure parks, tourism spots etc.
e. Lastly, how big our Economies should be given that our current GDP nominal is $515 billion and $742 billion PPP.
Domestic Economies and Overseas external Economies will be vital for us to grow our GDP, and total population and Singaporeans (& residents) skillsets - will be vital to ensure our current GDP is maintained and grow.
That is, our population must not only grow in number, but also in quality.
The optimal total population - is based on the calculation of the above supporting capacities as well the Economic demands ---- which is the expert domain of our Government Population Plan.
10/2/23, 3:40 PM - +Jimmy Chew: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/johor-workers-singapore-brain-drain-causeway-shortage-nurse-chef-3804751
10/2/23, 3:41 PM - +Jimmy Chew: I thought the government was considering 9 million?
10/2/23, 3:41 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Agree it's challenging
10/2/23, 3:42 PM - +Rama: The figure of 10 million comes to mind
10/2/23, 3:43 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
What we need is not to pump up the number mindlessly. We need to balance the number with quality.
10/2/23, 3:43 PM - +Jimmy Chew: I heard we may be building underground and in the sea π
10/2/23, 3:44 PM - +Rama: The numbers was mentioned by Liu Tai Ker former head of URA some time ago
10/2/23, 3:44 PM - +Rama: Underground yes but yet to hear about sea
10/2/23, 3:45 PM - +Jimmy Chew: I assume they're noticing the negative feedback on the population increases <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 3:45 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Liu Tai Ker is a city planner that plan to the max. But he is not the Economy planner. 10 million capacity - doesn't mean we need 10 million population - hence productivity is vital.
10/2/23, 3:46 PM - +Rama: True
10/2/23, 3:46 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 3:46 PM - +KSFoong: Lately so many scam cases are due to people fall in traps set by those advertised in FB, instagram and other social medias. Would like to know if there is any thing the government could do to hold these platforms be liable for this as they did not do their due diligent part.
10/2/23, 3:47 PM - +KL: 10 million population, we need how many nurse , hawker , etc support ? That mean sg will have 13-15 millions ppl on the island <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 3:47 PM - +Rama: Work in progress
10/2/23, 3:48 PM - +Rama: Master blue print is only known to the government
10/2/23, 3:54 PM - +KSFoong: So many investment advisors, so many people claimed they are expert, so many claim they have ways to make quick money from youtube. (Almost every half an hour will come up a few. Does anyone check their credential ? Who is responsible if they are con men?
10/2/23, 3:55 PM - +Rama: Singapore government will use pofma where possible. Beyond that, we have to do due diligence
10/2/23, 3:56 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
*Challenges face by the young couples*
1. First, young couples need jobs, income - to raise a family.
With inflation on the high, housing is not cheap ---- both couples need to work to bring in the income to start a family.
With disruptive tech getting more nasty like AI, Generative AI, automation etc --- no guarantee that young couples will face the threat of losing their jobs along the way --- and hence become a stressor and impede young couples for raising babies - when they struggle to finance their houses, daily expenses and high cost of living.
So vital for Government to work hand-in-hand with workers who lose their jobs, get trained, received retrenched monies while undergoing training and then place into a new job --- to assure young couples and give them a peace of mind that Government is behind their back to support them - and there are no drop in income ---- even though there could be disruption in careers along the way ---- given disruptive tech such as AI etc will be getting more nasty.
(1st challenge)
2. Come next challenge, if both couples need to work, who will take care of the babies?
Hence, flexi work arrangement, hybrid WFH/WFO (wife 3 days work at home, 2 days in office; husband 2 days work at home, 3 days in office) - become important to bring up the babies, go to schools, until they graduates and join the workforce.
(2nd challenge)
3.
10/2/23, 3:57 PM - +Rama: No. 3!?
10/2/23, 3:57 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ: Coming... Typing speed slowing down....
10/2/23, 3:57 PM - +Rama: Sorry
10/2/23, 3:58 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ: No problem.
10/2/23, 3:59 PM - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
10/2/23, 3:59 PM - +KSFoong: Who is real? How docwe know? Do we need to wait till peoples’s life long saving being emptied then the government could act? Personally, i think we should hold the platform that collect revenue from them (or allow them to publish infor) liable! Really hope the relevant authority could do something!
10/2/23, 4:00 PM - +Rama: Government can only put out so much educational information via various platforms. The rest is up to the individual
10/2/23, 4:01 PM - +KSFoong: Lately those mooncake and durian scam cases, who are the responsible platform? They collect revenue, yet they allow their users suffer.
10/2/23, 4:01 PM - +Rama: Legal expertise, financial scrutiny is mind boggling to undertake for the laymen.
10/2/23, 4:01 PM - +Frankie Wee: Living under ground
10/2/23, 4:01 PM - +KL: I think bank should allow us to exclude some account from online accounts.
10/2/23, 4:01 PM - +Frankie Wee: Above land 5m mean double underground total 10m
10/2/23, 4:02 PM - +Rama: Maybe but what the alternative!?
10/2/23, 4:02 PM - +KL: So app can only access tge account that grant access <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 4:02 PM - +KL: Currently I also realise most ppl Kanna are local banks not citi or Std chart if I not wrong
10/2/23, 4:03 PM - +KL: So is there a hole in some banks ? When outsource never do check properly etc. app building got holes <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 4:04 PM - +KL: Plus not all Eldery are tech savvy
10/2/23, 4:04 PM - +KL: Pushing tech bank maybe not appropriate for some .
10/2/23, 4:05 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
3. If possible, BTO priorities should be given to those young couples who want to stay near their parents - so that grandparents can take care of the children and young couples can have peace of mind to work.
Note:- unfortunately, parents usually stay in mature estates whereby the lease is getting shorter eg. 60 years lease left.
Young couples not feasible to buy the resales flat in the mature estates - as the young couples could outlive the flat lease.
Eg. If the young couples live up to 90 years old and lease at 88 years expire already - then the couples have no house to stay.
Hence more new BTO flats should be build around mature estates and higher priorities should be given to young couple.
Just wonder, any more new BTO flats in Serangoon North with 5 room flats?
My son and his fiance fail in the last bid. Any more coming?
(3rd challenge)
10/2/23, 4:13 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
4. With the growing income, income ceiling eligibility to apply for BTO flats can be easily over taken and young couples are force to buy private houses.
With BTO flats which is hardly affordable for the young, pushing young couples to buy more expensive private housing ---- will surely be a strong deterrent for young couples to raise more babies ---- as :-
a. more career disruption from AI disruptive tech
b. high bank loan interest rates (due to high inflation) - from decoupling, global climate crisis, derail global supply chain - will keep inflation high and interest rate high.
These stressor will be a strong deterrent for talents to raise more babies.
Why not remove the income ceiling eligbility - as long as they are Singapore citizens - and instead push them out to create a "social class" -- whereby they are force to break from the rest of the Singaporeans who can applied for HDB BTO flats?
They can pay the full price without subsidies - and hence no issue of rich exploiting the lesser off.
(4th challenge)
10/2/23, 4:17 PM - +Frankie Wee: It’s can said imagine Singapore living 10m population by 2050 there will be reduce size room ultra technology
10/2/23, 4:19 PM - +Rama: Worst than hkg style size public housing unit!?
10/2/23, 4:19 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
5. Having babies is easy, but bringing them up is difficult.
With high cost of living, young children need to develop and learn the skillsets that the Economy and business will pay.
Hence, there are stress to ensure the children get good education, do well, go into University and then get a good high income jobs.
This become a stressor for the young couples.
However, the Government is doing something about this, by emphasizing there are more than one path of career success, emphasizing skillsets rather than on academic qualifications alone.
This is assuring, and until we see more business, Government, industries and Singaporeans employed via this channels with good income in addition to the academic channels - then we can start to breathe a sigh of relief --- and cushion this stressor.
(5th challenge)
10/2/23, 4:20 PM - +Frankie Wee: We have to learned HK overcrowding. In future Singapore be prepare development not likely the same HK
10/2/23, 4:20 PM - +Rama: Agree
10/2/23, 4:23 PM - +Frankie Wee: China has many project housing empty unsold properties and heavy debt billion
10/2/23, 4:23 PM - +Smiliey face: October 2, 2023
"Relocation, Demographics and Affordability - An Emerging Megacity"
"It is a one-way race to the top! The champion of economics growth, the optimisation of human capital and the backdrop of an ageing nation!"
- - anonymity
10/2/23, 4:23 PM - +Rama: Evergreens issue!
10/2/23, 4:23 PM - +Frankie Wee: Become ghost town city
10/2/23, 4:24 PM - +Frankie Wee: Yes
10/2/23, 4:24 PM - +Rama: People might commit suicide!
10/2/23, 4:25 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
6. To summarise, people need to feel and possess the following, before they can relax and breed more babies:
a. Job stable
b. Income stable
c. Can work until official retirement age - and not subject to age discrimination - chasing mature and elderly workers out - before they accumulate sufficient retirement nest eggs.
d. Have flexible work arrangement between the couples to allow them to take care of their kids as they work.
e. Live close to parents - and can provide them a helping hands.
f. Get housing easily to start a family, don't artificially create a social class and chase out the fringe qualifier to HDB BTO flats - and make them buy private housing with unaffordable prices.
g. Ensure the young couples can bring up their children to be able to find work and self-sustain as they grow up.
Only then, Singaporeans will be confident to bear more babies and ensure a replaceable TFR of 2.0.
10/2/23, 4:26 PM - +Frankie Wee: Now Singapore weather is hotspot coming from Indonesia
π€¦
10/2/23, 4:31 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Conclusion:-
Total population = Economic planning.
It decides the optimal number of population + quality of population.
So that we can survive, thrive, prosper and at the same time enjoy a good comfortable living spaces.
10/2/23, 4:36 PM - +Frankie Wee: SG future 2050
Chicken rice $8
Kopi $2.50
SC & C $125 for 3 room
Bus / MRT fare from $2
Taxi fare from $10
π π π π just imagine
10/2/23, 4:37 PM - +Frankie Wee: GST 15% depends on decision Govt
10/2/23, 4:42 PM - +Rama: π³π€¦♂️ππ€·♂️
10/2/23, 4:46 PM - +M L Kelvin Tan: If GST is 15%, our goods will be very expensive. Like that are we still able to be competitive?
10/2/23, 4:47 PM - +Frankie Wee: Hard to said in future but just imagine only. It’s can said wage basic start $2500 -$3000
10/2/23, 4:47 PM - +Rama: Inflation rate will be!?
10/2/23, 4:47 PM - +Frankie Wee: Polytechnic and NUS basic salary is $5000 above π€£
10/2/23, 4:48 PM - +Frankie Wee: I can’t read the future because economy depends on
10/2/23, 4:48 PM - +Rama: Ok
10/2/23, 4:48 PM - +Rama: Wow
10/2/23, 4:53 PM - +Sam: <Media omitted>
10/2/23, 5:01 PM - +Smiliey face: <Media omitted>
10/2/23, 5:04 PM - +Jimmy Chew: Great ideas. Not sure if they can guarantee job stable, income stable, work until retirement, flexible arrangement, housing close to parents. Looks like civil service is the way to go. Where they can control this. But great ideas π‘ <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 5:16 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Because human is our only precious resources in our land.
We have no natural resources and big land to grow crops.
Hence our whole economic performance is people people people.
Hence total population planning and the quality of our people ie. Education and training become important.
Talents from abroad to fill-up our talents gap as well as blue collar jobs that local don't want to do also equally important.
10/2/23, 5:16 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: One of the greatest challenges for couples to raise children is how to work and take care of kids whilst they work.
Instead of expecting old parents to look after kids for free, why not gov pay $1.5k a month for each child looked after by grandparents?
Kills multiple birds at one time. Keep elderly meaningfully employed whilst allowing young couple to have peace of mind that their child will be well cared for. Correct values are being passed down. Build family cohesion.
10/2/23, 5:17 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 5:17 PM - +Frankie Wee: Caregiver’s social life.
10/2/23, 5:17 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Our current economic reserve and wealth are our forefathers and current workers hard work - bringing such economic outcome to us.
Hence total population planning become vitally critically important. <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 5:18 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: For $1.5k a child per month, social life will go to care giver.
10/2/23, 5:19 PM - +Frankie Wee: Something kind of called pension or other not sure
10/2/23, 5:19 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: It is a joy to look after one’s grandchild
10/2/23, 5:21 PM - +Frankie Wee: I think it’s underage can’t have a money only parent allowance given maybe called Edusave or special need.
10/2/23, 5:21 PM - +Frankie Wee: Child alway depends on parent’s saving
10/2/23, 5:23 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: Yes, make a drastic change. Gov will more than recover the amount later down the road when population increase and taxation income increase proportionately.
10/2/23, 5:24 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: Suggested $1.5k tied to “cost of living index”. Eg: price of eggs, transport, rice, electricity, water
10/2/23, 5:26 PM - +Frankie Wee: It’s already budget 2023 but you can voice out to govt feedback for revise.
10/2/23, 5:27 PM - +Frankie Wee: Only care.com social allowance to help low income family
10/2/23, 5:28 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: Now all the childcare funding go to child care business. This doesn’t keep our seniors employed.
10/2/23, 5:32 PM - +Kenneth Lee WM: Business try to get as many kids as possible whilst reducing number of staff to increase their profits.
By allowing parents to claim cash monthly payouts for each child being looked after, max 6 kids, caregiver:child ratio immediately improved.
10/2/23, 5:44 PM - +Rama: Yes
10/2/23, 5:52 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That is from cradle to grave.
If the entire food chain is stable and secure - people will breed and bear babies - because there's no insecurities and anxieties. <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 5:57 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Because the current income ceiling eligibility is hitting the talents pool that is most needed by the country.
I come across a companies with high tech talents - whereby despite marriage, some with kids, some planning marriage or have married - didn't succeed in getting a bto flat after numerous bid.
And their income ceiling is hitting or going to hit - these make them anxious and definitely is a deterrent of having more babies.
It upset their family plan. <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 5:58 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Why have this "social class splitting" policy?
Should abolish it - as it no longer helping in boosting our TFR. <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 6:00 PM - +REACH: *π’ Topic π’*
10/2/23, 6:39 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
"Unemployment support in Singapore likely to come with conditions such as skills upgrading: Economists".
Yes this should be a good policy.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/unemployment-support-calibrated-temporary-safety-net-push-skills-upgrading-economists-3808706#:~:text=Unemployment%20support%20in%20Singapore%20likely%20to%20come%20with%20conditions%20such%20as%20skills%20upgrading%3A%20Economists
10/2/23, 6:40 PM - +Rama: Fair
10/2/23, 6:42 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
The only catch is, employers can make up reasons to say the employee don't perform and then fire him.
Ever come across people who win award for good job done - and then year end fire for poor performance because of his age.
Then how to prevent such employers abuse.
10/2/23, 6:42 PM - +Rama: So, will Fair employment legislation help!?
10/2/23, 6:43 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Don't know.
Ask an employee to fight a big company boss - what is the chance of him winning?
10/2/23, 6:44 PM - +Rama: Slim!
10/2/23, 6:44 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That is why, if people want to abuse it, many patterns can come out one.
10/2/23, 6:45 PM - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
10/2/23, 6:46 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
End up people will just give up, don't go for training, because else how to feed his family - and the whole family go down.
So how does this Economists helping?
10/2/23, 6:46 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
How will this help in TFR to have more babies?
10/2/23, 6:48 PM - +Rama: Loopholes abound!
10/2/23, 6:48 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also the job may not be suitable for him.
A right job could be suitable for him.
If penalize him, then condemn him and his family forever?
10/2/23, 6:48 PM - +Rama: Exactly!
10/2/23, 6:49 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That is why, dangerous to artificially create a social class - because if they are not in the lower class shoes, they can't empathise.
10/2/23, 6:49 PM - +Rama: Agree
10/2/23, 6:52 PM - +Smiliey face: https://www.duke-nus.edu.sg/docs/librariesprovider3/education-docs/1)-national-study-on-elderly-persons-(nsep)-in-brunei-darussalam-by-dr-khadizah-haji-abdul-mumin.pdf?sfvrsn=5738c19a_4
10/2/23, 6:53 PM - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Last time I was like that.
Now I live in HDB, my perspective totally change. <This message was edited>
10/2/23, 6:59 PM - +Smiliey face: October 2, 2023
"Relocation, Demographics and Affordability - An Emerging Megacity"
"It is a one-way race to the top! The champion of economics growth, the optimisation of human capital and the backdrop of an ageing nation!"
- - anonymity
Assumption of a 2.5%-3.0% growth model, the YOY incremental for the next 12 years will achieve a 20% growth of the population (5.92 million as baseline) and up to 50% increased in the overall numbers of homes created within the next 12-15 years span.
The ecosystems and sustainability of prices, values, quality of lives and livelihoods will have profound dynamics of change in terms of the trajectory of the GDP growth potential and the challenges of increasing density of the public space and the private dwellings which will redefine the bandwidth , the future values of these spectrum properties and infrastructure developments.
Population Growth?
When a country housings is on a 2-3% YTY growth, it means the aftermath of the multiplier effects of the entire system of properties will follow the upward pricing of 5% or more annually, area to area, the utilisation of the existing land use, and the future potential of redevelopments.
The question is affordability and accessibility for people to live and to commute to their stations of economic activities that including all amenities and facilities and weekends activities.
The next closest land bank that is sitting next to SG is Johore. A two way access via the two causeways and the RTS. The future of people living in JB and commute to SG for work and other purposes will become more realistic because of the cost of housings in JB is one-third of SG and the favorable FX rates. How about the lower cost to own a personal/family transport vehicle in Malaysia?
Centralized & Decentralied?
What are the impacts for SG should this trend of relocating to Johore continues to accelerate into the next 10 years and longer?
The entire geography of SG and Johore can be divided into a core area and the enlarged area of economic developments.
"Not the Chicken nor the Eggs"
π Rapid ageing population
π Lower rate of citizen marriages
π Falling birth rate
π Singapore's total population
It all started with one paradigm shift that affects two or more, consequential and the unknown outcomes which will be time consuming in order to figure out and realign each of these paradigms, one at a time.
Each of these paradigms are dependent and collateral to the survive of a nation. One shift will have many cause and effect; a positive or negative impact which will influence the other two to shift closer or apart and the end results will be a misalignment of all the four paradigms. It's not easy to calibrate it all correctly and in sync.
Future Benefits?
The fixed is set for the high value and high costs of living standard with the most convenience of everything from accessibility to connectivity within and out of SG. The emerging economic activities will also be of a higher value and a higher contribution leading to a quantum leap to the future economics development of SG and Johore will also benefit from these exponential growth. Will the future of GST be 12%?
The valuations of the variables can be interpreted as many means to equalise (closed the gaps) the rising inequalities of the COL and the population at the same time it is an alternative to a more affordable and larger land and living space for more people to enjoy especially on the weekends. That's another means of achieving and enablely a work-live balance for the millions of people; a new Megacity in the making!
- - in progress - -
https://www.mti.gov.sg/COS-2023/Committee-of-Supply-2023/Singapore-Economy-2030#:~:text=Services%202030%3A%20to%20grow%20the,opportunities%20in%20sustainability%20and%20digitalisation.
Gan Kim Yong unveils Singapore Economy 2030 plan aimed at boosting exports to $1 trillion
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/gan-kim-yong-unveils-singapore-economy-2030-plan-aimed-at-boosting-exports-to-1-trillion
NATIONAL STUDY ON ELDERLY PERSONS (NSEP) IN BRUNEI ... https://www.duke-nus.edu.sg/docs/librariesprovider3/education-docs/1)-national-study-on-elderly-persons-(nsep)-in-brunei-darussalam-by-dr-khadizah-haji-abdul-mumin.pdf?sfvrsn=5738c19a_4
10/2/23, 7:00 PM - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
10/2/23, 7:00 PM - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
10/2/23, 7:04 PM - Only admins can message this group
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