REACH 498 - What are your views on the progressive increase in water price? How can we better support lower and middle income households for basic necessities to remain affordable amidst rising cost of living?

(SK)

28 Sep 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

28/09/2023, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

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Megan 😊

28/09/2023, 9:58 am - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

The national water agency PUB announced on Wednesday (Sep 27) that water prices in Singapore are set to increase by about 18% within the next two years. Potable water currently costs S$2.74 (US$2.01) for every 1,000 litres, or per cubic metre, before tax for most households. The increase translates to an additional 50 cents per cubic metre. It will be split over two phases: 20 cents on Apr 1, 2024 and 30 cents on Apr 1, 2025.

💬 *What are your views on the progressive increase in water price? How can we better support lower and middle income households for basic necessities to remain affordable amidst rising cost of living?*

📌 _*How will households be affected*_

According to data, the average one – and – two-room HDB flats currently pay S$25 a month, while five-room flats pay S$48 before GST. Following the full price increase, PUB has estimated that they will face monthly charges of S$29 and S$57, respectively. Both HDB and non-HDB households are expected to experience an average monthly increase of S$7 and S$8, respectively.  

📌 _*Reasons for the price increase*_

PUB stated that the cost of water production and supply has been steadily rising. They emphasize the need to increase investments in local water infrastructure, particularly in weather-resilient Newater and desalinated water, in order to prepare Singapore for the challenges of drier periods resulting from climate change.

📌 _*Assistance provided for lower – and middle- income households*_

Lower-and middle-income households will receive assistance to mitigate a portion of the price hike.  Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong will announce additional cost-of-living support measures for Singaporeans today on 28 September. 

👉 [ST] S’pore water price to rise by 50 cents per cubic m by 2025; lower-and middle-income families to get help : https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/s-pore-water-price-to-rise-by-50-cents-per-cubic-m-by-2025-lower-middle-income-families-to-get-help 

👉 [CNA] Singapore to raise water prices by 18% over two phases in 2024 and 2025: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/water-prices-singapore-increase-two-phases-vouchers-3796726 

👉 [ST] Cost of delivering water continues to rise and will need to be reflected in water prices : Amy Khor : https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/cost-of-delivering-water-continues-to-rise-and-will-need-to-be-reflected-in-water-prices-amy-khor

28/09/2023, 9:59 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

28/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

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28/09/2023, 10:05 am - +Smiley face: "When the price of oil increased, the costs of living will soup up. The degree and difference of this multiplier effects vary and drinking water and commercial water are among the essential commodities affected because its need energy to purify and redistribute for all to use. How about the prices of food? Food, Energy and Water!"  (前无路，后无步)

- - anonymity

28/09/2023, 10:06 am - +Rama: How much will the subsidies keep rising to keep pace with cost? Will means testing be revised!?

28/09/2023, 10:07 am - +Frankie Wee: News said new technology innovation water project. What is new innovation?

28/09/2023, 10:10 am - +Frankie Wee: Water collect from sea production to NEWater by pub?

28/09/2023, 10:11 am - +Frankie Wee: Everything cost go up when govt can support subsidised middle and low income. Those are living in 2-3 room

4room to exec apartments considering less subsidies

28/09/2023, 10:13 am - +Japanese words: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 10:13 am - +Frankie Wee: Wondering govt’s reverse have enough to keep on spent Singapore future building environment and infrastructure

28/09/2023, 10:13 am - +Japanese words: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: Oops is on water

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Frankie Wee: Adjust wage salary higher income when new Ai job replacement human worker

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +~L: I worry all people are reading these days is about price increase well above pay increases. We read about how AI and Tech is bring greater efficiency but then why do prices increase?

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: 😅

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: Water no issue 😂

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: I thought housing

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Frankie Wee: lol

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: $10 more to be frank.. for more than 5k income

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Frankie Wee: Water is big project cost a lot money than other

28/09/2023, 10:14 am - +Japanese words: Just one less dinner out

28/09/2023, 10:15 am - +Smiley face: The Future test may include individuals and households's LIQUIDITY, aka your bank balance?

It's an easy task to determine such a liquidity test!

28/09/2023, 10:15 am - +~L: We must be careful not to waste water, energy etc, but is this the right way to do it? Why not have progressive pricing so everyone gets the basic need at low cost and then pays heavily for excessive use?

28/09/2023, 10:15 am - +Japanese words: We are paying for water very cheap.. but over long run it affects operation cost hence means total increase in everyday things..

28/09/2023, 10:15 am - +Smiley face: Old way of penalty?

28/09/2023, 10:15 am - +Japanese words: So not just $10

28/09/2023, 10:16 am - +Japanese words: How are we managing it? Does industry pay higher as well… or just household water?

28/09/2023, 10:16 am - +Japanese words: What I understand industrial water fee is already higher

28/09/2023, 10:16 am - +Smiley face: Yes, commercial use costs more than residential use.

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +~L: For example $20 for the first 10,000 litres,  and then $30 for the next 10,000and $50 for the next 10,000+

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +Rama: Yet to hear about electricity price increase!?

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +~L: This would encourage low usage, and those who waste pay more.

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +Frankie Wee: Because of oil cost going up

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +Japanese words: Err if you can afford.. really don’t think so

28/09/2023, 10:17 am - +Rama: So, hide your cash under the pillow or in biscuit t8ns!?

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Japanese words: Only affect the low wages more

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Smiley face: Just don't fire and burn!

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +~L: Currently it's $23 per 10k litres

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Japanese words: Still affordable 😅 I think

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Rama: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Rama: Or eaten by rodents!?

28/09/2023, 10:19 am - +~L: So 50k litres costs $115. I'm suggesting we keep low price for low usage and only charge for high usage.

28/09/2023, 10:19 am - +Smiley face: How much water does a person drink per day?

How much water does a person use per day for showering and washing clothes and cooking?

28/09/2023, 10:19 am - +Japanese words: My household super high usage… but then again if I cut down on eating out or go out.. technically high usage don’t justify spending more 😅

28/09/2023, 10:20 am - +Rama: Water savings taps and others must be the norm for household and businesses!

28/09/2023, 10:20 am - +~L: The usage stats are here

28/09/2023, 10:20 am - +Japanese words: Travel you take transport, also more than your one day air con bill.. 😅 and if you don’t eat out

28/09/2023, 10:20 am - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 10:21 am - +Rama: More in a home, higher the utility bill!

28/09/2023, 10:21 am - +Smiley face: Assuming 3 liters per person per day?

28/09/2023, 10:22 am - +Japanese words: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 10:22 am - +Smiley face: 1.5 litres for drinking and the rest for other uses...

28/09/2023, 10:23 am - +Japanese words: Exactly…

28/09/2023, 10:23 am - +Japanese words: Specially if you work from home and cook often

28/09/2023, 10:23 am - +Smiley face: $7.0 per person per day cost of water?

($2.3 per liter?)

28/09/2023, 10:23 am - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Japanese words: I gave up on thinking I waste money on air con but at work no need.. but I don’t travel so give and take Lor

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Frankie Wee: Who love pet fish a lot water every monthly daily change

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Japanese words: Comfortable work environment is key to keeping sane

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Rama: True

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Rama: Gardening too!

28/09/2023, 10:24 am - +Japanese words: Depends.. I only top up don’t change water lol

28/09/2023, 10:25 am - +Japanese words: My tank natural evaporation is 20 litre per 2 week

28/09/2023, 10:25 am - +Japanese words: Reuse for watering plants

28/09/2023, 10:25 am - +Frankie Wee: Keep spending on filters recycling water

28/09/2023, 10:25 am - +Japanese words: Err filter no need change if you don’t feed too much…

28/09/2023, 10:26 am - +Japanese words: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 10:28 am - +Coconut Tree: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/tuas-water-reclamation-plant-on-track-for-2026-opening-despite-rising-costs

28/09/2023, 10:28 am - +Coconut Tree: I suspect a lot of the additional cost is to fund these infrastructure works

28/09/2023, 10:28 am - +Coconut Tree: needed for our water security in the future

28/09/2023, 10:29 am - +Coconut Tree: To be fair, even with 18% more, water in Singapore is still cheap

28/09/2023, 10:30 am - +Rose M K Ho: B4 we start the discussion, 

I wud just like Reach to note :

With the recent announcement of _added responsibilities to Deputy PM Lawrence Wong's portfolio_, 

I think we shd discuss this topic 👆🏻 as I feel strongly tt

ther may be a _conflict of interest_ tt One Person should hold similar roles:

•  as Chairman of GIC,

•  As Chairman of MAS

and be Finance Minister 

all dealing with our finances .... at the same time.

Shouldn't ther be a check & balance by a second person , (2nd key), 

just like how lawyers / solicitors 

are not allowed to hold or receive any anticipatory conveyancing money to settle a client's property matters?

Basically, my point is tt

ther shd not just be One custodian of our finances -

since ther r 2 keys to decide on the use of our Reserves (Gov + President), 

*ther shd also be 2 keys to safeguard our Finances*.

*Reach* - 👆🏻

*This shd be a topic for discussion another day*.

Kindly consider for next discussion. 

Thank you.

28/09/2023, 10:30 am - +Frankie Wee: Water treatment plants use recycled

28/09/2023, 10:37 am - +Coconut Tree: Yeah - It's a NEWater plant actually. They just didn't' want to put the name inside.

Recovering newater from used water.

28/09/2023, 10:37 am - +Coconut Tree: *Disclaimer* I'm working on that project

28/09/2023, 10:38 am - +Sam: If there in an increase in expenditure that government cannot fully fund it without cutting expenditure somewhere or dipping into reserve, but can partially fund it. Government will get everyone to bear the cost of increase and channel what ever available fund to help the lower income to cushion the impact. We should not have the mentality that government should pay for all or dip into reserve, else we are done

28/09/2023, 10:39 am - +Jimmy Chew: I thought now we're adding 95 percent into the reservoir for new water? they meant building more newater facilities?

28/09/2023, 10:39 am - +Sam: Anyway water security is a big issue for Singapore, the expenditure is necessary. Use less water or treat it as doing something for the nation

28/09/2023, 10:40 am - +Frankie Wee: Future Singapore water underground saving when there is crisis water in Malaysia

28/09/2023, 10:40 am - +Coconut Tree: Yeah. TWRP in Progress, CCK expanding and addding on, one more in Changi

28/09/2023, 10:41 am - +Coconut Tree: Lots more NEWater incoming

28/09/2023, 10:42 am - +Jimmy Chew: you have a point, but I am okay with it because it's good for him to have his hands in these, to gain inner workings of the whole financial systems. Arms legth understanding and deepwork involving is totally different.

28/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia future may facing crisis

28/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3208217/malaysia-gets-3-metres-rainfall-year-yet-millions-dont-have-enough-clean-drinking-water-why

28/09/2023, 10:57 am - +Frankie Wee: Singapore will have save enough underground product NEWater

28/09/2023, 11:12 am - +REACH: *$1.1b Cost-of-Living Package: Up to $200 cash for 2.5m S’poreans, $200 CDC vouchers for S’porean households*

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/11b-cost-of-living-package-up-to-200-cash-for-25m-s-poreans-200-cdc-vouchers-for-s-porean-households

👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cash-payouts-cdc-vouchers-singaporeans-cost-living-water-prices-3804691?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_28092023_cna

28/09/2023, 11:15 am - +Sam: So instead of using $1.1 billion to pay for water hike. The money goes to those who really need it. Let those who use water excessively pay for it.

28/09/2023, 11:18 am - +Frankie Wee: It’s good idea 👍

28/09/2023, 11:24 am - +Japanese words: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 11:25 am - +Japanese words: Once you hit a tier you paying 50% more

28/09/2023, 11:26 am - +Japanese words: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 11:27 am - +Japanese words: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 11:41 am - +Rama: Water and electricity causes

28/09/2023, 11:55 am - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 11:56 am - +Frankie Wee: It’s not bad excellent Mr Lawrence

28/09/2023, 12:34 pm - +Rama: The carrot always comes before the stick

28/09/2023, 12:41 pm - +Mac: give 5 take 10 hahaha

28/09/2023, 12:42 pm - +Rama: Give chicken wing but tax base on whole chicken!

28/09/2023, 12:47 pm - +Smiley face: A contingency plan, hopefully not, SG may once again use its reserves to buffer the possibilities of global economics meltdown unseen since the previous one in 2008/09.

If it happens, it will be a new crisis, no precedent,  and it may drag into 2030/32?

28/09/2023, 12:48 pm - +Smiley face: "The War on Food, Energy and Water."

28/09/2023, 12:48 pm - +Rama: Please be prudent when touching our reserves with utmost care!

28/09/2023, 12:50 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, it will be a longer game of attrition.

Please read Jamie Dimon CNBC comments.

28/09/2023, 12:50 pm - +Smiley face: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/dimon-warns-that-fed-could-still-lift-interest-rates-sharply-from-here.html

7% interest rates???

28/09/2023, 12:51 pm - +Poh S Lim: Tharman’s new job role 😁

28/09/2023, 12:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s going hurt more in countries economy

28/09/2023, 12:53 pm - +Rama: Questions like OTC!?

28/09/2023, 12:53 pm - +Smiley face: The way to kill inflation must be fast and furious; it cannot be dealt slowly! Because the unintended consequences and damages done by inflation are so painful so it is out of control!

Then you raise the interest rates and it is too little and too late! That's the present situation!

28/09/2023, 12:54 pm - +Rama: Agree

28/09/2023, 12:57 pm - +Bhavani: Hi those suffering with multiple serious conditions that affect their mobility also need subsidies.

28/09/2023, 12:57 pm - +Bhavani: even if they are living in a 4 room

28/09/2023, 12:57 pm - +Smiley face: Can we say that " SG is too small to fall"?

Because we have the buffer to withstand the coming Global economics crisis unseen since 1949?

The key to everything and everyone is "margin of error", only with thick margin, one will survive the sweep of any future crisis!

So leadership at all levels is the crucial element of success!

28/09/2023, 12:57 pm - +Rama: Agree

28/09/2023, 12:58 pm - +Rama: Assets rich but cash poor should not be a factor!

28/09/2023, 12:58 pm - +Rama: Possibly can fall!

28/09/2023, 12:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: 4room sold million dollars higher than the rest small room

28/09/2023, 12:59 pm - +Rama: True

28/09/2023, 12:59 pm - +Smiley face: Inflation

28/09/2023, 1:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Living in apartments luxury is richer when they move living in HDB they save for retirement. But the rest of people’s middle to low income unaffordable housing because it’s old affected the market index upward transaction recorded. But bear it middle to low income households will need seek support govt cost of living (inflation)

28/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: On the other hand MOM would seek company to revise salary starter $1,800 to $3,000.

28/09/2023, 1:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Some company rejected MOM hmmm because of business also too costly 🤦

28/09/2023, 1:15 pm - +Jimmy Chew: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 1:15 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I Just learned from a friend HDB increased lending rate from 1.75? To 4.75? Can't remember the interest rate but it was a shocker when I asked did he borrowed from commercial Bank he replied no. So imagine is HDB a government agency or money making. Hahaha

28/09/2023, 1:16 pm - +Jimmy Chew: They are not bothered that they're adding to people's misery and cost of living. Like joining the everyone

28/09/2023, 1:16 pm - +Jimmy Chew: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 1:18 pm - +Jimmy Chew: It's really Singapore incorporated. Water, housing, electricity hahaha we're caught

28/09/2023, 1:19 pm - +Jimmy Chew: One people, one Nation, one Singapore to pay more and more

28/09/2023, 1:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Still stable and unchanged

28/09/2023, 1:21 pm - +Rama: Wth!?

28/09/2023, 1:21 pm - +Rama: 😳😡😖👎

28/09/2023, 1:21 pm - +Rama: Blood suckers!

28/09/2023, 1:22 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah thankful for LKY and his lieutenants. They really care for the sufferings of the people <This message was edited>

28/09/2023, 1:22 pm - +Rama: Not his SON!

28/09/2023, 1:24 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Well life goes on. We need to get rid of bureaucrats that only know how to raise prices hahahaha if we can

28/09/2023, 1:24 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Riches make us fat and sedated

28/09/2023, 1:29 pm - +Rama: Ivory tower ownself check ownself politicians!

28/09/2023, 1:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: No choice world economy is itrade upward and costly war price increases and hike by FED

28/09/2023, 1:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: Economy is slow now and next year will is likely axe job

28/09/2023, 1:32 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah. I don't feel it. Just thinking of the young people especially with those who have elderly parents to look after and only son or daughter

28/09/2023, 1:32 pm - +Rama: Appreciate we are the only country in the world with reserves!

28/09/2023, 1:32 pm - +Rama: For all parents spend on their education!

28/09/2023, 1:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Money Save for ourselves when they don’t need to such stuffs 

So business will going downward

28/09/2023, 1:32 pm - +Jimmy Chew: One lesson learned is that being self sufficient don't depend on the government or anyone

28/09/2023, 1:33 pm - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 1:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I am good. Just concern for those who have loans. I used to work in debt collections and it's not pretty when you confiscate their things and homes.

28/09/2023, 1:35 pm - +Rama: Agree

28/09/2023, 1:35 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Like Ho Ching says we're renting hahaha

28/09/2023, 1:37 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I remembered one politician ( not sure who) shared better with folks scurrying for food then folks with alot of time planning mischief hahaha

28/09/2023, 1:41 pm - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 1:50 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Who was it?

28/09/2023, 1:55 pm - +Japanese words: Oh well… not wrong.. but not politically correct 🤣🤣

28/09/2023, 1:55 pm - +Japanese words: If everything is forever then people after us how to buy… 

Singapore just too small..

28/09/2023, 2:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

28/09/2023, 2:03 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: But with LW in all the finance leadership roles didn't it implies the same... to risky

28/09/2023, 2:03 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha most folks says. "Told you so"

28/09/2023, 2:05 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: Tonnes of  $$ invested in efficient automation,  AI, Technology which are heavy investments at the onset but reaps benefit n efficiency since years later. So shouldn't we now be reaping  those benefits?

28/09/2023, 2:06 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: Literally everything has increased since covid situation stabilised

28/09/2023, 2:12 pm - +Frankie Wee: Covid-19 will come back anytime so Ai standby won’t loss business

28/09/2023, 2:25 pm - +Rama: Good possibility

28/09/2023, 2:25 pm - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 2:29 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Agree. Maybe he facilitates

28/09/2023, 2:29 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Or testing his limits

28/09/2023, 2:30 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Let us analyse the additional COL package and the respective price hike objectively :-

a. Respective price hike include plastic bag charge, town council hike, public transport hike, and water hike + the rest of the COL inflation.

Based on my own calculation, it come up to 9.82% increase per year from my last calculation 9.6% before water hike (per household - as I paid my total household bill).

b. Looking at the additional COL package plus previously announced COL pacakge :-

i. HDB flat dwellers, Private properties dwellers (condo, landed properties) - will receive additional $200 CDC vouchers per household and at least $200 per adult (including income > $100,000 per year). $500 per adult for income $34,000 - $100,000 and $800 per adult for income < $34,000.

_(Note:- Honestly, the just announced COL + previously announced COL package will have more than cover the price hike of town council, PT hike and water hike - which in total come out to < $1,000 a year per household based on my calculation - *for thise year 2023*)._

*That is, all Singaporeans including lower, middle and upper income group inflation of (water, public transport and town council charges) are fully covered for year 2023 - before anyone start jumping.*

ii. HDB flat dwellers in addition get additional financial help in U-save rebates $20 more per quarter for 2 years 2024 and 2025 + 0.5 month SCC rebate for 2024.

(It is a windfall for HDB flat dwellers)

That is, HDB flat dwellers got *profit* from the announced 3 price hikes.

Don't believe, come out with your spreadsheet and calculator - to do your calculation - you will know what I mean.

2. This means, 2023 and even early 2024 - is a very good year for all Singaporeans - including HDB, condos and landed properties dweller - despite the public price hike - plastic bag charge, PT hike, SCC hike and water hike.

*The only catch, from 2024 onwards, the COL cash payout is not covered*.

3. This means for my scenario, I will need to find extra income to cover my 9.82% price hike (or inflation) from 2024 onwards - to ensure that my savings will not get depleted or I need to cut my spendings by 9.82% and compromise my household standard of living. 🤔

How to earn this 9.82% income neh ............................ 🤔

Unless MOF have additional financial assistance similar to current 2023 - COL package.

But really is this sustainable year after year --- for our Government fiscal budget?

A bit worrying .......

28/09/2023, 2:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 2:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

To summarise this long message:-

Despite the plastic bags charge, PT hike, SCC hike, water hike ----

*All Singaporeans* regardless of income level got compensated.

Lower and middle income groups who stay in HDB flats - got a windfall gains in 2023 and early 2024.

_The only catch, from 2024 onwards, how to earn additional income to cover the overall 9.82% inflation. This is my headache._

28/09/2023, 2:44 pm - +Rama: 🤦‍♂️😞🤷‍♂️

28/09/2023, 2:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Based on this 2.6% HDB/CPF loan interest rate - it is still 2.6% (as I just check with my close friend) - for HDB housing loans.

No news that is has increased to 4.75%.

Any announcements by HDB or CPF that this has changed?

28/09/2023, 2:51 pm - +Ah Heng: ehhh HDB loan dun any how give idea can bo

28/09/2023, 2:51 pm - +Japanese words: Not that I know of… lol

28/09/2023, 2:51 pm - +Ah Heng: cpf contibution already increased less cash on hand

28/09/2023, 2:51 pm - +Ah Heng: everything is going up

28/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +Ah Heng: dun force dog jump over the wall

28/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +Ah Heng: gst 9% coming somemore

28/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +Ah Heng: those who say no pain maybe you doing well

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: or lesser commitment but majority are not (middle income tier)

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Japanese words: Every bit counts… not very pain.. but still it will hurt a bit. 

Specially when you buy big ticket items

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Rama: Faster than salary!

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Japanese words: And overall also will inflation for the rest of the stuff

28/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: less than 6 mths what do we see

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Rama: For how long more!?

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Japanese words: That pretty much agree

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Ah Heng: and now water for next year funny hdb 5 room pay more

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Rama: 🤦‍♂️

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Ah Heng: excellent if the assumption 5 room = more people den a 1 rm condo and 1 person

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Ah Heng: if liek that coe for < 1.5 l shoudl be 50k not the current 100k

28/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Ah Heng: based on size mah

28/09/2023, 2:55 pm - +Ah Heng: like that my meepok shold not inflate if i ask for regular based on size mah

28/09/2023, 2:57 pm - +REACH: *Government monitoring businesses to stop them from using increased costs as excuse to profiteer: DPM Wong*

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/government-monitoring-business-increased-costs-excuse-profiteering-lawrence-wong-3804891

28/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Japanese words: This is a must

28/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Ah Heng: say many times liao

28/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Ah Heng: but there is no escape

28/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Ah Heng: they will use it as a way to say inflation

28/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Japanese words: A lot of stall up 50 cent every few months a bit too much

28/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Ah Heng: cos is a vicious cycle

28/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Ah Heng: come 9% + water increase get ready to see more than 50 increase

28/09/2023, 3:01 pm - +Japanese words: Hawker I still can afford… but still not easy specially for lower income… 

When more mouth to feed 4 x 50 cent up is extra $2 more per meal. 🥲

28/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Ah Heng: every increase the worst tier to be hit is the middle

28/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Japanese words: When my kid grow up one chicken rice is $8? 😖

28/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Ah Heng: the way the criteria is being made is rather dun give the middle tier

28/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Ah Heng: everything import import of cos will increase

28/09/2023, 3:03 pm - +Ah Heng: cos each item import will need to have the good profits + transport profit + man power profit + warehouse profit + etc

28/09/2023, 3:03 pm - +Japanese words: Err no choice we can’t produce locally.. to be frank.. land use the income not worth hence we import more than grow

28/09/2023, 3:03 pm - +Japanese words: And local also don’t support local produce lol

28/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Ah Heng: innovate innovate that's what we are and how we came about

28/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Jimmy Chew: LW with his financial tools and knowledge may design a plan to reduce inflation by managing the rates 😀😀😀

28/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Ah Heng: no need to target all markets if we can cover 3 staples will be very good liao

28/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Japanese words: Innovate so much… if possible big countries that in farming so many years.. won’t be still depending on land..

28/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Japanese words: Cost… unless you willing to pay more

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We will have HDB farming

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: see ... jimmy is right

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Japanese words: If possible… we already see it done..

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: dun see thsi little farming in carpark

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: it can help families in that area

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: is possible

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: My friend is farming spinach for his family

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: just that politics line drawn between hdb and a few agencies

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Ah Heng: i ask before

28/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Japanese words: Who collect? How many workers to run the small farm operation.. scale doable?

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: most is volunter

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: some place even rent out

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: not all things is about money

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: and this helps our age to have activities too

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: issue is carpark belong to hdb

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Innovative thinking is required like any company we pay for new ideas and solutions

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Ah Heng: so need to cross that line first

28/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Japanese words: Saying is easy… if cost don’t make sense.. 

volunteer how many.. what they gain? Volunteer can run forever?

28/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +Jimmy Chew: That's working not just raise prices

28/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +Ah Heng: u will be surprise to see how many of these little gardens is run by uncle and aunties who expect no returns

28/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +Ah Heng: is not always about money

28/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Like HDB using rubbish finished burnt ashes for bricks and cement <This message was edited>

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Japanese words: Yes… efficient? Are they bias? They only give to their friends.. lol

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Ah Heng: think we are one of the early one to built hdb like lego

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Ah Heng: wrong ok

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Possible 😀 pofma wait?

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Ah Heng: not all are like that dun use the assumption of 5 room hdb use more water than a condo

28/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Japanese words: Lots of small farm I see more like private garden then community garden

28/09/2023, 3:09 pm - +Japanese words: Sure please do… I am glad to be wrong..

28/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Most are for private consumption.  Can't scale up unless government investment and  initiative. Then need foreign workers for maintenance hahaha

28/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Ah Heng: these should not be scale up

28/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Ah Heng: in some areas they have a farm day sales just to make a few dollars for rc

28/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Japanese words: Yah.. who pay for workers? 

With levies.. easily 2k.. just to hire one..

28/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Ah Heng: some i think give to lower income

28/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Ah Heng: some just give to anyone who wants it

28/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Maybe do like China, buy land in Africa and send their people there to cultivate and send back to China

28/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Japanese words: When run privately… who manage them? Pest, waste management etc… 

Very very messy…

28/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Coconut Tree: Interest rates have started to trend downwards

28/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Japanese words: So far my side I see is personal garden.. 

Farrer Park road 

Bird park, well maintained. 

Garden inside got chicken who’s not sure? 

Other food inside no one care lol

28/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: Owner never follow standard cost alway excuse make profit themselves. And keep saying complaint govt rising price

28/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Japanese words: Anyway back to work 🙃

28/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: Because owner alway thinking and dream wanted to be rich when make money over price. But they never understood how inflation affected

28/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Japanese words: Capitalism best at work 🤣

28/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: lol

28/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Japanese words: Supply demand… can’t find fault in them wanting to make more money…

I wonder how they control? 🤷🏻‍♂️

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Ah Heng: else why make business

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Japanese words: Carrot cake famous $5, normal carrot cake $4

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Japanese words: So how to say is unfair?

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Ah Heng: but in the west there was a time when someone ask how much is enough from a business after all your operating cost

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Japanese words: 😂😂

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Should be $3.50

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Japanese words: Just example lar.. lol

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Overpriced

28/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Japanese words: Pek Kio still got $2.5 one

28/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Japanese words: 😂

28/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: If this air con reasonable price $5

28/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: If hawker over priced $5-$6 Omg

28/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: My sausage bun costs $2🤦🏻‍♀️ the price of 1 loaf of bread

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: sunshine bread u mean hahahaha

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Jimmy Chew: How to control?. Let the consumer decide

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: u sunshine mah ask ur company making the break why like that hahahaa

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Japanese words: That’s is why I wonder based on what they can charge them 😓

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: anyway go jewel and see teh bakery

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: the price can sometimes buy 1 happy meal

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: got drink from happy meal somemore

28/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Ah Heng: and TOY

28/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Japanese words: Good effort but how to implement is tough to be frank

28/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Jimmy Chew: My place cod fish for  cai png was from $6, after the gst announcement to $3 now.

28/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hawker new install air con and clean environment then reasonable price $5-$6

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Ah Heng: ehh dun anyhow give idea wei

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: 😂

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Ah Heng: wait govt say electricity usage too high

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Ah Heng: den increase by 20 cents again

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: What is enough. Look at GIC and HDB

28/09/2023, 3:21 pm - +Ah Heng: den middle income get screw again

28/09/2023, 3:22 pm - +Ah Heng: or they think now HDB veruy prized and must make big hdb flats pay the cost of being prized assets

28/09/2023, 3:22 pm - +Japanese words: Without kid ok lar…

28/09/2023, 3:22 pm - +Japanese words: With kid can start to feel pain when they grow up 😂

28/09/2023, 3:23 pm - +Japanese words: Still HDB is one of the best policy of all.. just that now we are open to adjust it to fit the time and expectation of our people

28/09/2023, 3:30 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Pub is not making any loses today, ie gov not subsidising water. Fully self sufficient and have some “profits” for investing in infra. In future when water usage doubles, income doubles as well.

I see no need to increase charges. Gov subsidies to citizens will only be for a couple of years. The increase is permanent.

28/09/2023, 3:31 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah 👍

28/09/2023, 3:31 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: TOP..

28/09/2023, 3:32 pm - +Ah Heng: is the same thing i been telling people... this hand feeding is not life time is 1x off or maybe 2 time off

28/09/2023, 3:32 pm - +Ah Heng: after that what .....

28/09/2023, 3:32 pm - +Ah Heng: you think the price will dive down ?

28/09/2023, 3:33 pm - +Rama: Pass time community bonding

28/09/2023, 3:33 pm - +Ah Heng: one thing in singapore minus coe once increased hardly will decrease

28/09/2023, 3:33 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Why is CASE not highlighting this fact???? 

To me CASE is not effective at all. Only there in name but quite useless.

28/09/2023, 3:33 pm - +Rama: Colonisation

28/09/2023, 3:34 pm - +Rama: Agree

28/09/2023, 3:35 pm - +Rama: Claw back

28/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: For MRT, gov is subsidising the operations. So cost increase is somewhat justifiable. Now that it is a private organisation, we can’t ascertain if they are fully utilising the assets they hv. At least it is not an SAF commander in charge now, so there is hope that the assets will be better managed. SAF commanders are trained for war, not retail.

28/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Ah Heng: sleeping wan lah

28/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Rama: Agree

28/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Ah Heng: u see the bus fare is sbs or smrt in red very bad red

28/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Jimmy Chew: When we are flooded to 8 ft high. Then change maintenance on the wall to keep water at bay hahaha

28/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Ah Heng: how can bite the hand that feeds right

28/09/2023, 3:38 pm - +Ah Heng: best part feed us with recycle water still charge so high

28/09/2023, 3:38 pm - +Ah Heng: like that u used my pee in the recucle water i must charge also mah

28/09/2023, 3:38 pm - +Ah Heng: cos is my pee is part of the source for your revenue

28/09/2023, 3:39 pm - +Ah Heng: lay man talk can get as ridiculous as those who starts showing stats and numbers

28/09/2023, 3:39 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 3:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah which makes a majority of Singaporeans

28/09/2023, 3:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: OR Americans

28/09/2023, 3:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Or polish citizens

28/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: He can vision the future and make change at cost bring down inflation price. He can make sensible decisions in sg every year budget.

Ridiculous people think govt is nutcase over increase price and GST

28/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: Fair is take and fair give back then building development

28/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: How to balance inflation 🤦

Example I pay price $1 next day increase $2

But I asked my boss salary increase $3 then boss said business is cost selling $3 different suppliers make profit $1 and salary is same 🤦

28/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

28/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: Then boss said don’t get married unfortunately a lot of suffer and burden 🙄🙄🙄

28/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Jimmy Chew: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/hdb-senior-estate-manager-charged-allegedly-instigating-external-vendor-submit-fake-quotation-2269441

28/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Jimmy Chew: He said he did it as per procedure

28/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Rama: 😳

28/09/2023, 4:07 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 4:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Procedure is to call for 3 quotations from 3 different vendors for a certain amount.

Else call open tender with objective evaluation criteria.

This is the real procedure. <This message was edited>

28/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But honestly, even though Government set up monitoring of business profiteering - my neighborhood food stalls in Serangoon, Nex, Ang mo kio, punggol, bishan, paya lebar, Jurong imm, woodlands, toa payoh etc ---- all the food prices in food courts, coffee shops, hawker centre etc still very high leh...

Also cannot find any budget meals anywhere ..... <This message was edited>

28/09/2023, 4:21 pm - +Japanese words: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

More than cover all the price hikes in 2023.

But end 2024 onwards.... 😭

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Ah Heng: got terms and conditions wan

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Japanese words: lol

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Ah Heng: will say middle income form this range to this range you will only get items x y z

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Ah Heng: lower income u the most huat

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Ah Heng: all sapu

28/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Ah Heng: middle items sorry u half bake cake only take 40%

28/09/2023, 4:24 pm - +Ah Heng: higher income you ric only take 10% of my package

28/09/2023, 4:24 pm - +Japanese words: 😅 you earn so much… government give also if you won’t feel much.. so can don’t give don’t give Lor…

28/09/2023, 4:25 pm - +Japanese words: But still give a bit since you contribute to the fund 🤣

28/09/2023, 4:25 pm - +Ah Heng: that is for high income

28/09/2023, 4:25 pm - +Ah Heng: malf bake cake in todays work is earn 3k spend 2.8 k

28/09/2023, 4:25 pm - +Ah Heng: dun say single lah

28/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Ah Heng: govt no very keen on single

28/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Ah Heng: thus u see from the hamper how many is for single

28/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Ah Heng: go get marry

28/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Ah Heng: so find a woman or man get hitch and spawn

28/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Ah Heng: den u will have t chance to fall into either 3 hamper category

28/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Rama: No family hamper economic growth, defence, law enforcement, medical services, education etc.

28/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +Smiley face: Peace & stability

28/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +Rama: True

28/09/2023, 4:42 pm - +Smiley face: Let's be very Calm and United as we are head-on into a big and perfect storm,...!

28/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Smiley face: Have trust in one another, have trust in our government, and have trust in our systems!

"too small to fall" !

28/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Unbelievable China did archive

28/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

28/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +REACH: Dear contributors,

please be reminded to post content relevant to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Megan 😊

28/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +Jimmy Chew: https://news.mit.edu/2023/desalination-system-could-produce-freshwater-cheaper-0927

28/09/2023, 5:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note:- this is for individuals.

That's if a person income is > $100,000 live in landed properties or condo.

If he has 3 person eg. Spouse not working, 2 children > 21 years old study in university with no income - 3 person can still get $200 each.

So not too bad.

28/09/2023, 5:29 pm - +Smiley face: For two room flats, government subsidise $10 per month for each household water bill for 2024 and 2025.

For three room flats, $5 per month for the next two years.

28/09/2023, 5:33 pm - +Smiley face: How about electricity bills?

Water & Electricity

28/09/2023, 5:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

And if both grandparent, retire, no income, still get $200 each.

Not bad.

28/09/2023, 5:34 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: Totally agree. noodle with 1 meat & veggie =$4.50

28/09/2023, 5:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: No change 😅

28/09/2023, 5:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Because they had choice open market fixing electricity plan. After 2 years up and down unknown price from 28.98 cent per kWh

28/09/2023, 5:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mall shopping like air con is most expensive foods stalls

Only coffeeshop and hawker most cheap avail to find budget meal

28/09/2023, 5:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I can't find any budget meals in coffeshops and hawker centre leh...

28/09/2023, 5:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Upper and lower class differences people choice

28/09/2023, 5:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Maybe not yet start or some ready

28/09/2023, 5:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

For sure, I can't see the budget meals decal in any of the stalls in those areas I mentioned - practically more than 1/2 of Singapore.

28/09/2023, 5:44 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: Kopitiam n koufu r not cheap at all

28/09/2023, 5:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: You got member card discount 10%

28/09/2023, 5:45 pm - +Rama: Getting expensive even with budget meals!

28/09/2023, 5:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Kopitiam change to NTUC FairPrice member

28/09/2023, 5:46 pm - +Rama: Pay by fairprice app helps

28/09/2023, 5:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.kopitiam.biz/promotions/kopitiam-hawker-gems-million-linkpoints-lucky-draw-10-august-10-october-2023/

28/09/2023, 5:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes

28/09/2023, 5:50 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Cost-of-living Support Package*

The Singapore Government has announced a $1.1 billion cost-of-living support package to help households manage the rising cost of living. 

This package includes various forms of support, such as GST vouchers, U-Save rebates, and Workfare Special Payment, among others.

Check out the infographics for more details!

*Find out the estimated benefits you and your household may receive from the Government with the Support For You Calculator!*

👉https://supportgowhere.life.gov.sg/budget/support-calculator

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +REACH: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 5:54 pm - +Rama: Public transport vouchers for seniors must be adjusted upwards to take into account current pending increase and that for next year.

28/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Rama: Make it sgd50 pet retired senior.

28/09/2023, 5:57 pm - +Smiley face: The increase of GST from 8% to 9% comes 1st January 2024; will there be a new round of COL etc? Any idea ?

That said, all bills will reflect this new increase in the GST.

28/09/2023, 5:57 pm - +Rama: Possibly due to coming GE25!

28/09/2023, 6:02 pm - +Smiley face: Can we afford to do a few more rounds of $1.1b, into 2024 and how about 2025?

28/09/2023, 6:02 pm - +Rama: I hope so!

28/09/2023, 6:03 pm - +Smiley face: All because of the FED rates going towards 6% or more? Hopefully not!

28/09/2023, 6:03 pm - +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

28/09/2023, 6:04 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

28/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Smiley face: So what all these COL about?

Let's do a simple calculus based on low to high income households.

The higher you earn, the more expenses you incurred.

$200 to $2,000; that's the analytics of the low -mid-high COL

28/09/2023, 6:05 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not bad.

Financial assistance.

Money Banyak Banyak.

Money alot alot.

28/09/2023, 6:06 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hopeful FED will crisis over inflation 😅

28/09/2023, 6:06 pm - +Smiley face: Besah besah...

28/09/2023, 6:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/market-fed-beware-banking-crisis-march-2023-09-18/

28/09/2023, 6:07 pm - +Rama: Change of PM 2025 so wait and see what LW does!

28/09/2023, 6:07 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

2023 - alot alot

2024 - medium medium

2025 - a bit abit

28/09/2023, 6:08 pm - +Smiley face: 2025 lagi besah...

28/09/2023, 6:08 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sure or not.

Calculator say otherwise.

28/09/2023, 6:09 pm - +Rama: LW enticed!?

28/09/2023, 6:09 pm - +Smiley face: Incremental....due COL

28/09/2023, 6:09 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I only believe in real numbers.

Calculator say, I believe.

28/09/2023, 6:10 pm - +Smiley face: Low Income households will feel the $200 incremental, all COSTS....

28/09/2023, 6:10 pm - +Smiley face: Just add all things up, from food to water ..

28/09/2023, 6:10 pm - +Rama: Including retirees!

28/09/2023, 6:10 pm - +Smiley face: Incremental....

28/09/2023, 6:11 pm - +Smiley face: As long as you are living in SG

28/09/2023, 6:11 pm - +Rama: Yes

28/09/2023, 6:12 pm - +Smiley face: Next year may not be a sweet sweet year!

28/09/2023, 6:12 pm - +Rama: I suspect!

28/09/2023, 6:13 pm - +Smiley face: Hopefully, hope,  that end of 2025 is better?

28/09/2023, 6:14 pm - +Smiley face: Please count the incremental, you will see it all....

Old saying" a million here and a million there, it will add up to a billion...!"

28/09/2023, 6:14 pm - +Rama: PMI, CPI, import and export etc will contribute to outcome

28/09/2023, 6:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hopefully Covid-19 remove and better economy good condition

28/09/2023, 6:15 pm - +Smiley face: Do not wish to predict the first two indices...the last two are based on the first two....

28/09/2023, 6:15 pm - +Smiley face: Already recovered Liao...another Pandemic coming?

28/09/2023, 6:16 pm - +Rama: Disease X!

28/09/2023, 6:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes unknown

28/09/2023, 6:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: October we are going again vaccine 💉

28/09/2023, 6:17 pm - +Smiley face: This coming Water price increase is not so impactful versus other commodities...

28/09/2023, 6:17 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️😞🤷‍♂️

28/09/2023, 6:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: We want see how this project innovative new way water. We must understand price increases

28/09/2023, 6:23 pm - +Smiley face: You want non stop flowing clear water and you wish all the flowing water becoming cheaper and cheaper...is it possible based on the theory of economies of scale?

Maybe and may not be !

28/09/2023, 6:24 pm - +Smiley face: The key is when will inflation start to deflate and how much subsidies can a country afford?

Besides the rising cost of utilities (may persist into 2026). Rental is the next foretelling indicator of the short term economics and social impacts to watch for especially in a run-off of the CPI in the next four quarters, rentals value of all properties will follow downwards and the valuation of these assets class may then find it new price equilibrium. In the next four quarters, what will be the corporate America quarterly results likely be robust or likely losing their capacity to grow more than 2% YOY?

What will it become in this global war on food, energy and water? Is it going to be "too big to fail or too small to fall" ?

28/09/2023, 6:24 pm - +Rama: Price will go up somewhat depending on economic of scale over time.

28/09/2023, 6:24 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, up up up.... limited choices...

28/09/2023, 6:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: Agreed

28/09/2023, 6:27 pm - +Smiley face: Yield on latest Singapore 6-month T-bill jumps to 4.07%

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/yield-on-latest-singapore-6-month-t-bill-jumps-to-407

28/09/2023, 6:46 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

28/09/2023, 6:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So my spreadsheet and calculators not too far from the COL calculator.

2023 - financial assistance can cover my 9.82% inflation and price hikes.

2024 - cannot fully cover the 9.82% inflation - but a good part of it.

2025 - can only cover about 10% of the inflation and price hikes.

Let us see 2024 and 2025 government budgets - see whether there are more help to cushion the inflation or not.

28/09/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

28/09/2023, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan  😊

28/09/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group

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REACH 497 - What are your views on raising the retirement age? How can we further support seniors who wish to continue contributing to Singapore? 

(SK)

25 Sep 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

25/09/2023, 9:50 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from *10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

*House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:* 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

*Full set of Terms of Use:* https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

25/09/2023, 9:59 am - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

A survey of 1,471 working individuals aged 50 and over conducted recently by the PAP Seniors Group (PAPSG) and NTUC U Women and Family found that about nine in 10 Singaporeans and Permanent residents aged 50 and above supported a retirement age of 63 years and higher, while eight in 10 supported an official employment age of 68 and above. 

In his keynote speech to commemorate International Day of Older Persons, Minister for Manpower Dr Tan See Leng said that the Government will progressively raise the retirement and re-employment ages to 65 and 70, respectively, by 2030 to recognise that older Singaporeans can still contribute to the workforce. 

💬 *What are your views on raising the retirement age? How can we further support seniors who wish to continue contributing to Singapore?*

Among the top employment challenges and barriers respondents cited were negative employer attitudes and age discrimination, inflexible working arrangements, long working hours, and limited availability of suitable job opportunities

📌 _*Workplace Fairness Legislation*_

Minister Tan said that the upcoming workplace fairness legislation will further strengthen protection against workplace discrimination, including age discrimination. He also said, with an ageing workforce, there will be a stronger imperative to ensure that workplaces are fair and open to workers, regardless of age.

📌 _*Increased CPF contribution rates*_

Minister Tan added that as the Government continues to support employers in their transition to hiring an ageing workforce, the CPF contribution rates will be gradually raised for senior workers aged 55 to 70 by helping them save more for retirement.

📌 _*Majulah Package*_

Minister Tan also said that the Majulah Package announced at the National Day Rally 2023 “will make significant needle-moving impact to help seniors meet their basic retirement needs”. The Earn and Save Bonus will provide a CPF bonus of between $400 and $1,000 every year for the lower- and middle-income workers who remain in the workforce. 

Seniors with less wealth and CPF savings can look to the Retirement Savings Bonus of between $1,000 and $1,500 while those with less wealt will receive the one-off MediSave Bonus, of between $500 and $1,000.

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/most-singaporeans-aged-50-and-above-support-raising-re-employment-and-retirement-age-survey

25/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

25/09/2023, 10:02 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

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25/09/2023, 10:08 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I support raising the retirement age to 65 and re-retirement age to 70 years old.

2. Many older workers want to work longer to have a bigger retirement nest eggs.

3. Also work make older workers more meaningful in their lives as they still can meaningfully contribute and yet earn income to support their family.

25/09/2023, 10:10 am - +Frankie Wee: Yearly $1000 = $83.34 monthly for them get saving bonus not enough they need to support work re-employment older.

25/09/2023, 10:15 am - +Frankie Wee: CPF contributed RA and MA combine saving can retire in total met mins BRS and FRS at 65 or 70 regardless of they want continue to work.

25/09/2023, 10:17 am - +~L: Needs to be done alongside retraining, so that the over 65s don't all end up in McDonalds.

25/09/2023, 10:18 am - +~L: Also, there need to be jobs available.... if the older people don't retire then it's harder for younger people to get promotions, and harder for even younger people to enter the workplace.

25/09/2023, 10:18 am - +Coconut Tree: Support ONLY IF CPF-Life payout age is not revised upwards.

Those who can retire at 65 should be allowed to.

Those who want to continue to work can continue.

25/09/2023, 10:19 am - +~L: Agreed - this should not be used a mechanism to avoid paying out. ie should not be forced to keep working.

25/09/2023, 10:19 am - +Frankie Wee: Money not enough CPF required min  BRS and FRS

25/09/2023, 10:28 am - +Rama: Social services subsidies cannot support a ageing population without max work force

25/09/2023, 10:42 am - +K.Loh: I can’t see myself working till 70 😂

25/09/2023, 10:43 am - +Frankie Wee: Hair turn grey

25/09/2023, 10:43 am - +Ah Heng: Singapore where got such thing call retirement ... maybe for the top 10 % else most of us will work till we die

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +K.Loh: Unless healthy and ready to contribute… not all old man are good at new stuff…

Increase as we don’t have enough workers.. but still is it a good sign for the younger ones.. when they take longer to reached Senoir.

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +Ah Heng: despite all these motion to employ aged workers there are still issues of 1) how well paid are our aged workers to ensure they are not taken advantage of

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +K.Loh: Will they eventually lay flat see there is no future or at least it is very far from them

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +Frankie Wee: CPF asked me to top up cash hundred thousand dollars I don’t have this kind of money large amount.

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +Ah Heng: how willing and open are empolyers to take in these undertap age workers espically those with good working expereinced

25/09/2023, 10:44 am - +K.Loh: Most rehiring don’t pay full… some even half and no bonus and no more health benefits

25/09/2023, 10:45 am - +K.Loh: So is it fair?

25/09/2023, 10:45 am - +Frankie Wee: I wish to strike Toto 😂

25/09/2023, 10:45 am - +Ah Heng: next which are the industry will these age workers go to ... by default the society already condem them to what cleaner / security / fast food

25/09/2023, 10:46 am - +K.Loh: They are there cause no one want to work in those jobs… if they are young.. and not paid well enough who will do?

25/09/2023, 10:47 am - +Frankie Wee: The future is changed Ai take over job. Senior workers need go to upskill

25/09/2023, 10:47 am - +Ah Heng: every thing AI dun forget is IT that caused the misery in society now

25/09/2023, 10:48 am - +Ah Heng: IT is a double edge sword ...

25/09/2023, 10:48 am - +Ah Heng: and to those who say up skillng

25/09/2023, 10:48 am - +Frankie Wee: ITE fresh graduates start IT job as engineers support Ai

25/09/2023, 10:49 am - +Ah Heng: please go to the ground and sample how many seniors despite the so call upskilling do really get a job

25/09/2023, 10:50 am - +Frankie Wee: Security no longer human job

Nowadays Ai 🤖 watchdog 24/7 

Industry lead to rental company $700-$1000 monthly instead human

25/09/2023, 10:50 am - +Ah Heng: let's see how AI can do a job better than human yah

25/09/2023, 10:50 am - +Frankie Wee: Of course I believe

25/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Ah Heng: nothing beats human in this world

25/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Ah Heng: and if man kind still do not embrace IT is a double edge sword we are just digging our own death bed

25/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Frankie Wee: ITE or polytechnic people are young start new skill

25/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Typewriter vs Microsoft office which is more smart and skill speed

The same like Ai will assist older re-employment

25/09/2023, 11:10 am - +Smiley face: "The Skills Future programs are for our existing and younger workforce; the Golden Skills programs are transitional/transformation skills training for our aging workers?"

- - anonymity

25/09/2023, 11:19 am - +Frankie Wee: Increase amount credit skillfuture if course too costly

25/09/2023, 11:25 am - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 11:34 am - +Smiley face: A smaller triangle means smaller operations and a smaller scale of business.

The bigger (& taller) the triangle is, the larger the organisation and the costs structure to support its operations and staying competitive versus other triangles in the flatten and fragmented world of commerce!

The key is how much to CUT these triangles, aka the "tuna fats" in order for any big fish to survive and less for the smaller ones!

So what is the cost of shaving and how to not OVERLY shave it? And transformation is one big SHAVER of costs and efficiency especially to the 'big, bigger and biggest and tallest (+/-h)' triangle!

That's the billion dollars question! It's an Art than Science to slice the fats off the bottom!

        -  - in progress - -

25/09/2023, 11:36 am - +Rama: I may have to due to personal circumstances

25/09/2023, 11:38 am - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 11:41 am - +Rama: Government top up must be huge!

25/09/2023, 11:42 am - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 11:42 am - +Rama: Drop the manpower!

25/09/2023, 11:49 am - +Jimmy Chew: Haha see how much we trust CPF hahaha government soon will have a trust issues or most government institutions becoming like business. Don't tell don't say until the bill comes hahaha

25/09/2023, 11:51 am - +Jimmy Chew: I agree. Most of my friends can't get Jobs because we're 66. Only McDonald wants us

25/09/2023, 11:52 am - +Rama: Retired politicians should be doing this only!

25/09/2023, 11:53 am - +Jimmy Chew: I met an uncle who is 75 working at Mac  because his wife had stroke and he doesn't have enough. He too have medically fees to pay No kids

25/09/2023, 11:53 am - +Ah Heng: dun say 66 once u cross 40 is hard to get a job -> only job for this age phv drivers ... / securities

25/09/2023, 11:54 am - +Rama: Means testing failed!

25/09/2023, 11:54 am - +Ah Heng: usually at such age is the prime for many in the company but of course pay is pretty high

25/09/2023, 11:54 am - +Rama: So, don't trust politicians words outright!

25/09/2023, 11:55 am - +Ah Heng: but company rather kill these people for so call younger / more talent trash

25/09/2023, 11:56 am - +Ah Heng: at the rate we are going

25/09/2023, 11:56 am - +Ah Heng: our young will soon see their good academics will not play a part in helping them to build the career in which they have interest

25/09/2023, 11:56 am - +Rama: That's why government help is pathetic!

25/09/2023, 11:57 am - +Rama: Foreign Trash comes first!

25/09/2023, 11:57 am - +Ah Heng: cos of the REFUSED SOCIETY to acknowldge the type of circles which had already been built

25/09/2023, 11:57 am - +Ah Heng: not being anti FT or what but walk around raffless place you will see ....

25/09/2023, 11:58 am - +Ah Heng: the obvious one is changi

25/09/2023, 11:58 am - +Ah Heng: and causeway

25/09/2023, 11:58 am - +Ah Heng: the same logic to our man power applied to our staples

25/09/2023, 11:58 am - +Ah Heng: why worry we got money what can buy from different sellers

25/09/2023, 11:59 am - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 11:59 am - +Rama: Vote wisely come GE25!

25/09/2023, 11:59 am - +Ah Heng: manpower -> why worry we got jb if jb is not enuff got india (IT / Fian but people who work with them will know the quality) / Philippines / now opening to burma and viet

25/09/2023, 11:59 am - +Ah Heng: these are all stop gaps only

25/09/2023, 12:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: FT must compliance SOP

25/09/2023, 12:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: 😇

25/09/2023, 12:02 pm - +Rama: Expect policy loopholes

25/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Ah Heng: which is why LKY insist MNC you better train my people cos i dun wan your own people to hog the mgt position

25/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Ah Heng: so as long as we keep evading the root cause ...

25/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Rama: Is LHL doing that!?

25/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Ah Heng: it will be a never ending cycle

25/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 12:08 pm - +Ah Heng: and our middle age talent / experienced will be cast to one side of the society doing stupid low paid no brain job

25/09/2023, 12:08 pm - +Ah Heng: those who says up skilling helps and all positive things .. i wish you dreams come thru

25/09/2023, 12:08 pm - +Ah Heng: dun the day you hit teh other side of the fence and cry

25/09/2023, 12:09 pm - +Ah Heng: in singapore is much very true to state say and plan is one thing when executed is different hor

25/09/2023, 12:09 pm - +Jimmy Chew: The last I heard is that 35% of primary one entrants make it to university

25/09/2023, 12:09 pm - +Ah Heng: which uni? ntu / nus

25/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Ah Heng: the rest are like pte u

25/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Ah Heng: and in nus how many % are our own boys and gers

25/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Ah Heng: actually u or not is not impt

25/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Jimmy Chew: China Xi recommending skills is okay too, not everyone can get an executive job

25/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Ah Heng: cos any tom dick harry also can go to pte U get a paper and declare is a uni grad

25/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Tell that to a parent. Who wants to risk it hahaha

25/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +Ah Heng: what we can do is to make sure our uni grad are quality type

25/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +Ah Heng: dare to stand up to the so call MNC mgt

25/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +Ah Heng: not uni grad with no quality

25/09/2023, 12:12 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I think it's more local companies not so open <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 12:12 pm - +Ah Heng: wrong ... MNC also

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Ah Heng: the world today is very different and much 2 face

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Ah Heng: is still a very colonial mindset

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Ah Heng: anyway that's not the main topic

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Ah Heng: better stick to the main topic

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha yeah mnc too.. depends on the mnc who runs it

25/09/2023, 12:13 pm - +Ah Heng: singapore is good for thinking outside the box

25/09/2023, 12:14 pm - +Ah Heng: so why cannot the brains and scholars start using their good brain and skills to see if can WE crasft a industry run by and mgt by these so call seniors from 55 and above

25/09/2023, 12:14 pm - +Ah Heng: tap on their experiences to innovate a new line of industry

25/09/2023, 12:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: And alot of "follow law"

25/09/2023, 12:15 pm - +Ah Heng: if dementia people can work in a cafe (japan) why not our old folks here man

25/09/2023, 12:16 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Culture different. Japan respects their elders. Singaporeans not that much

25/09/2023, 12:16 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We're efficient society. Off with the old, on with the new

25/09/2023, 12:16 pm - +Rama: More so for other races here!

25/09/2023, 12:20 pm - +Ah Heng: off the old in the new is it.. well let's see how the NEW screw up the country den......

25/09/2023, 12:20 pm - +Ah Heng: in fact i kind of disagree that we do not respect our elders and culturally we are as good as the jap

25/09/2023, 12:21 pm - +Rama: Nonsense

25/09/2023, 12:21 pm - +Ah Heng: only thing i can say is because of the huge amount of external population coming in

25/09/2023, 12:21 pm - +Rama: https://fb.watch/nf-BqXbsq5/?mibextid=2Rb1fB

25/09/2023, 12:21 pm - +Ah Heng: they bring along their culture which does not go with ours here

25/09/2023, 12:22 pm - +Ah Heng: the local races still uphold values and respective culture pretty well here

25/09/2023, 12:22 pm - +Rama: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 12:36 pm - +Rama: Local seniors when approaching work related assistance from government, are always pushed to menial jobs opening despite having worked previously in good jobs with good pay whilst the government implement and pushed FT into mid to high end jobs!

25/09/2023, 12:41 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Which race? Tell me more <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 12:42 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Maybe I have confirmation biased. Tend to see more disrespectfulness <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 12:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: True story in old war were surrounded down whole building. 

New FY 2xxx if outbreak war is more complex than live save.

25/09/2023, 12:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: I only know my grand grandmother told me story that Singapore were loss their saving when Japan invaded and stole everything gold. Till end of war she start saving again and CPF very little to retire. She has not forget how many their live were loss and suffering.

25/09/2023, 12:59 pm - +Rama: All have issues with other races save a minority of each

25/09/2023, 1:00 pm - +Rama: Our current and future generations find this struggle meaningless

25/09/2023, 1:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Depend on child future can allowance pay to support grand parents

25/09/2023, 1:02 pm - +Rama: Let alone parents!

25/09/2023, 1:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore future is too touch but we can figure it out.

25/09/2023, 1:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Will alway be there

25/09/2023, 1:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: If government going rising cost of living then grand parents tell child no need money anymore. So on they decide to give up lifesaving

25/09/2023, 1:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Very sad don’t know what can do.

25/09/2023, 1:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: There hope in future 😇

25/09/2023, 1:04 pm - +Rama: To each their own then!

25/09/2023, 1:04 pm - +Rama: Nope

25/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Haha there's always hope. It's a state of mind.

25/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: My grandma passed away away she said give up and let them child save in future because of cost. All of them very sad and tear

25/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Like Putin hopes to win the war

25/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: We wish them live age in 100 years award

25/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Rama: 😞😢

25/09/2023, 1:06 pm - +Rama: 🙏👌👍🤝👍

25/09/2023, 1:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Sorry to hear that. Just to clarify she didn't want to live on?

25/09/2023, 1:06 pm - +Frankie Wee: Japan war cost them a lot life. But I can said older generations will forget about past

25/09/2023, 1:07 pm - +Jimmy Chew: The old 70s and above neighbors don't. They love China and also hates USA <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 1:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: True

25/09/2023, 1:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Simple she refuse to take medication 💊

25/09/2023, 1:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Now we are new era think of something we can figure it out. Government rising cost of living maybe possibly

25/09/2023, 1:09 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah. I have friends who will not do chemo if they have cancer

25/09/2023, 1:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: I support Ai can help human work life balance healthier but the costing will figure reduce or rising current wage

25/09/2023, 1:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: The future earth will be full developed there limited space. There will be available job in MARS building missions <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 1:31 pm - +Rama: Sad

25/09/2023, 2:02 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

25/09/2023, 2:36 pm - +Smiley face: 25 September, 2023

"The dynamics of transformation can be group into three ∆, that is 56-60yrs, 61-65yrs and 66-70yrs. Each age group has its unique characteristics and challenges that requires careful understanding before any calibrated moves to change it."

- - anonymity 

Keys of Transformation?

Procedures, Reskilling, Developing leaders, Commitment, Motivations, Priorities, Purposes and Reality checks on Direction, Vision and Realign.

         - - in progress - -

25/09/2023, 2:49 pm - +Bhavani: We must stop importing foreigners into Singapore as this is the true cause of all the problems facing Singapore

25/09/2023, 2:51 pm - +Bhavani: We have got to have more environmental jobs for both youngsters and seniors which must involve protecting forests, creating vegetables, fruits and herbs.

25/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +Bhavani: We must have an environmental law to protect forests

25/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +~L: omg - this is very dangerous talk...

25/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +~L: You mean we should continue welcoming foreigners and the investment and economic growth they bring.

25/09/2023, 2:52 pm - +Rama: Only way to get the ivory politicians off their tower is to vote them out so they will wake up to this!

25/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Bhavani: Please read carefully above. I said we must stop importing foreigners

25/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +~L: I recommend you watch LKY In His Own Words - he really identified what's important to Singapore, and being welcome to overseas visitors and investment was number 1.

25/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Bhavani: into Singapore

25/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +~L: I really don't understand the phrase importing foreigners... they are not package goods.

25/09/2023, 2:53 pm - +Rama: LHL forgot his late father!

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Foreigners are not taking away our jobs.

Unable to learn and relearn new technology that the business want take away our Jobs.

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Bhavani: I never said they are packaged goods

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +~L: The phrase implies that

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Then we become politically unstable and MNCs leave us to go to Malaysia, 3 times cheaper

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Bhavani: The so called investment has wiped out 95 per cent of forests

25/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +Bhavani: We only have 5 per cent foresrs left

25/09/2023, 2:55 pm - +Bhavani: Forests provide shade, protect against heat and bad climate

25/09/2023, 2:55 pm - +KL: What should we call them ?

25/09/2023, 2:55 pm - +Rama: So better let the electorate get passed off but feel helpless!?

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +Rama: Foreign Trash!

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +~L: It's the word 'importing' that is offensive.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +Bhavani: There is overpopulation in Singapore and everywhere is crowded. Trains are packed.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Targeted opposition

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +~L: This is the language of nationalists and I can tell you this can of language is offensive and dangerous

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I also ask ChatGPT to generate my specialist skill - Cisco router configuration using OSPF for connectivity - to see whether it will replace our router engineers, professional and experts or not.                              

ChatGPT generate the router configuration within seconds.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But before those router engineers, professionals and experts start to panic whether it will take away their jobs or not by ChatGPT, I start to scrutinize the router configuration generated by ChatGPT.

Then I start to laugh.

1. The router configuration generated is indeed a working copy.

2. But....

3. But if company think they can replace all the above IT staff and use ChatGPT - they will be in for a rude shock.

The company routers will be easily hacked by even a novice hacker - and all their company data will be stolen.

4. The configuration generated by ChatGPT is devoid of security, hardening config and IP address are not plan and subnetted or plan according to the company needs.

5. It will also mess up existing connectivity if anyone just copy and paste into the router causing IP address conflict, problem in troubleshooting - and likely long downtime to the company - to restore everything back into operational sanity.

6. For season IT engineers, professionals and experts - ChatGPT has nothing to fear.

7. But for someone with no knowledge in router configuration or network connectivity, ChatGPT can help them to understand.

But they must not do it on any operation networks.

Else company will have to announce network down for very long - and requires engineers, professionals or experts to do the salvation - which can run into hours or even days to restore if the mess is huge.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then I change the prompt to request ChatGPT to generate the most fail safe configuration for me.

When I look through, I laugh again.

The most secured configuration is only 38% secured - as it lack many vital security features.

But I don't want to elaborate - because don't want hackers to start hacking VIP networks.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

ChatGPT 2 - Cisco router configuration - requirement :- hardened, failsafe, secured, unhackable.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note:- these are not the most secured router configuration generated by ChatGPT.

Though the efforts are commendable.

Because it do :-

1. Ospf authentication via md5

2. ACL access control list

3. Router host admin using strong password with encryption 

4. SSH V2 secure shell to manage the router via RSA 2048 keys generation

5. Vty configuration for authorised user access

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

ChatGPT 4 - Can help me to hack your last Cisco router configuration?

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

When I ask ChatGPT to hack its own configuration, it say I can't assist.

Hahaha...

😀

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

ChatGPT most secured router configuration is only - 38% secured.

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 2:57 pm - +KL: nationalist    ? <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 2:57 pm - +Bhavani: I have read the word imported multiple in in the media. I did not coin this word.

25/09/2023, 2:58 pm - +~L: I'm sure the media is very good at whipping up Nationalist Anti-Foreign sentiment.

25/09/2023, 2:58 pm - +Bhavani: Imported simply means letting in foreigners

25/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Sam: We need another 24,000 health care workers by 2030. If not foreigner, you really think that we can train enough local and they are willing to take up the jobs?

25/09/2023, 2:59 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

ChatGPT will take away those techie jobs that are at the elementary levels.

Unless our people upgrade and upskill to be at least professional or expert level.

Foreigners don't take away our jobs.

AI will take away our jobs if people think that government stop foreigners can protect your jobs.

Then you are wrong. <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +~L: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +~L: Narrow mindedness will push Singapore back to the 50's. That kind of thinking took UK out of EU and their economy suffered, their younger generations cut off from the biggest market in the world.

25/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Bhavani: First, we must understand the meaning of jobs

25/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Bhavani: in the current context

25/09/2023, 3:01 pm - +Bhavani: We must do away with jobs that harm the environment

25/09/2023, 3:01 pm - +KL: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 3:01 pm - +KL: So I do not see it incorrect as long document from NUS , NTU and SMU   say the same. Just a wording dotn take it too hard. we not professional in langangues <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +KL: in fact I trust NUS , NTU and SMU more then other souce :)

25/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +~L: Agreed. The problem is that almost all jobs harm the environment. Retail (packaging) Oil and Gas. Transport.... etc.

25/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Bhavani: The focus on economy keeps making people want more and more material things and comparing pay with each other

25/09/2023, 3:03 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Seriously I too until the latest pofma came from NUS hahahaha <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Bhavani: What is important is mental peace. This can only come about if all Singaporeans are given environmental jobs

25/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Sam: Singapore is nearing full employment yet we still have a lot of vacancies. These vacancies can't be filled by the unemployed because of skill mismatch. If we are not prepared to welcome foreigners, we better prepared for lousier service or no service from many businesses. And of course be expected of the decline of Singapore economy.

25/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Bhavani: Many businesses are making profits while destroying the environment

25/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Bhavani: We must create a new economy known as environmental economy solely based on the health of the environment.

25/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Survival mode. Short term thinking but I thought the MNCs are changing?

25/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +Bhavani: Yes I did read that companies are working to become more sustainable which is a good thing.

25/09/2023, 3:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can’t

25/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Bhavani: If we can't stop importing, then we will truly face environmental destruction. There is a lot of rubbish generated by overconsumption. Rubbish bins are always full.

25/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Or cleaning company lazy

25/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: Govt use them collect taxpayer

25/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Frankie Wee: Make FT as SOP

25/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +KL: In fact mediacrop wont scoop to this :) . If we are nationlist there will be a lot of SG flag raise ard sg :) on nation day. We just a republic  I guess <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Bhavani: Crowdedness is complained about by many young people. What about elderly people who have to stand in buses due to the crowds although they need seats badly.

25/09/2023, 3:12 pm - +Bhavani: If Singapore is indeed a forward thinking nation, this should be shown by how it treats the elderly

25/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Frankie Wee: Kindness give in to seat the person need disability, elderly and pregnant or child

25/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Bhavani: Mrts and buses are cramped

25/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +KL: Agree , see macdonald u can tell liao

25/09/2023, 3:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Every citizens of a country has to go thru stupidity. USA to elect trump. Russia to allow war. UK to withdraw from EU. I heard now they want to get back. Hahaha so Singaporeans will seek change too <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Bhavani: It is not only about giving in. The underlying issue is the crowds comprise tourists, prs and new citizens. This is the cruz of the vexatious problem of elderly suffering.

25/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Maybe that's part of growing up

25/09/2023, 3:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I have even test out what ChatGPT do best.

Technology generation.

To generate technical code - router configuration that must be hardened, secured, failsafe and unhackable.

It did a very good job producing the code in seconds.

But when I look at the outputs, the following is my conclusion:-

1. Router IT Engineers with CCNA look shaky.

2. Router IT Professional with CCNP still can hold its fort.

3. Router IT Experts with CCIE - look at it and laugh.

ChatGPT only produce the code that is 38% in security and granularity.

Can't threaten the experts job.

25/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Bhavani: Narrow mindedness is refusing to see and address the problems when they are right in front of us

25/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Does it work chat gpt programming? <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think the issue need feedback to minister of public transportation

25/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: If there need to be more people transportation

25/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Bhavani: I have read of Singaporeans complaining that they can't even travel anywhere during weekends as all the slots everywhere are taken up.by foreigners. This is why there is so much resentment.

25/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +KL: btw that day in transport kids running ard in transport. post a needless danger

25/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Lots of empty buses. Need a better solution

25/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Slots?

25/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Bhavani: I see lots of crowded buses, not empty buses.

25/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Bhavani: Slots is just my metaphorical phrase

25/09/2023, 3:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes, it works.

But for professionals and experts level, the safest code generated by ChatGPT is a "C grade".

Professional can generate a "B grade" code.

Expert can generate an "A grade" code.

Hence professional and expert have no fear for their jobs.

But engineer will start to panic.

25/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Bhavani: Singaporeans definitely need forests to get rid of their stress.

25/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mean it’s can automatically chat anyone

25/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Bhavani: This is the only way to mental peace.

25/09/2023, 3:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes it works.

It will replace the engineer.

No bullshit.

AI will take away elementary jobs, not foreigners.

25/09/2023, 3:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Excellent

25/09/2023, 3:23 pm - +Coconut Tree: CECA Vermin and AMDK

25/09/2023, 3:25 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But I have tested how intelligent ChatGPT are pitting against human intelligence.

I discovered that I can knockout ChatGPT in 3 rounds - 123-KO.

1st round - ChatGPT produce 1/2 right answer and 1/2 wrong answer.

I train it with the precise answer.

2nd round - ChatGPT hallucinate, produce a fake answer and try to smoke its way through.

3rd round - ChatGPT admit defeat and refuse to generate the response. <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

25/09/2023, 3:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

After I train ChatGPT the pictorial form of Nirvana, now ChatGPT refused to generate the picture.

Previously, ChatGPT hallucinate, try to fake using a false picture and try to smoke its way through.

25/09/2023, 3:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

25/09/2023, 3:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: They don’t have enough information and they are new searcher

25/09/2023, 3:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: ChatGPT acknowledges power tool with human integrity:

Law

Govt

Environment 

Teaching 

False or fake information can lead to misinformation or hacked

25/09/2023, 3:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cybersecurity come first in core system to all Ai

25/09/2023, 3:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not true, ChatGPT has been trained on volumes and volumes of the entire scripture text.

In fact ChatGPT has the complete Abidharma scriptures text - the most profound text that are trained.

I just prompt it to put into a simple diagram - but it fails to do so.

Because it doesn't have rationalizing and conceptualising skills - which is ChatGPT nemisis.

But a human can.

25/09/2023, 3:34 pm - +Rama: Our local media is seen to be pro government!

25/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Noraini: Last week I ordered hamper from fnp.  As mature employee, I am more comfortable ordering by phone rather than website.  On

 the other side, the lady who answered the phone is lady speaking English with thick Indian accent.  I felt she must have come here thru CECA/EP.  

Nowadays, many customer service job is foreigners.  Decade ago foreigners employed only for managerial/director post.

Singaporeans sidelined for office job that does not require much talent

25/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Rama: Until a defiant professor got his hand twisted into apologising!

25/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Bhavani: The underlying issue is not pro or anti foreigner. The real issue is Singaporeans' human rights must be addressed.

25/09/2023, 3:36 pm - +Bhavani: They have a right to their own home

25/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Bhavani: Which they were born in

25/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Rama: Full employment with detailed job industry will tell if mid to high end job

25/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Rama: Exactly

25/09/2023, 3:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

We have to understand this, humans has cognitive subconsciousness process.

ChatGPT is only a machine that permutate maths, linear equations, math model.

It does not have the ability to understand senses, perception, consciousness, judgement and mental formation to size up subtle stimuli, conceptualise to arrive at a decision.

It has no intelligent, no wisdom.

Hence a human can knock out ChatGPT or AI if humans understand our strong points and AI weak points.

25/09/2023, 3:38 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 3:39 pm - +Rama: SLA to reduce size of colonial bungalows

25/09/2023, 3:39 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 3:40 pm - +Bhavani: If foreigners truly care about Singaporeans and Singapore forests, they will gladly go back to their own country and protect their own forests and people.

25/09/2023, 3:40 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 3:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: Look likely to topics Singapore future population growth will hit 8-10m is a crowded area

25/09/2023, 3:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤦

25/09/2023, 3:41 pm - +Bhavani: Already there are way too many buildings in Singapore. The buildings are like people crowding each other out.

25/09/2023, 3:41 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Big tax pool to fund social welfare programs ...

25/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Bhavani: I think we should all lead a freegan lifestyle

25/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Thomas: Let's put in perspective. Our ancestors were migrants and foreign workers of yester years. During those times , if we have this anti-immigrant policy and tendencies, will we have our lives today ? If we deny good immigrants to be here or foreign workers here , we are denying our very existence, plus condemning our ancestor

25/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Bhavani: Grow our own food, stop buying things which harm the environment

25/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Our buildings are still very short.  If technology becomes better, maybe can make it even taller and more majestic with less land space. <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 3:43 pm - +Bhavani: I understand what you mean totally. However, this does not mean we must keep letting in people in an already overcrowded nation. Then foreigners too will suffer.

25/09/2023, 3:44 pm - +Bhavani: It is not majestic at all. Its just ugly hot concrete.

25/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Bhavani: People whether local or foreign are suffering in this heat

25/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Thomas: When Singapore started , it is definitely less than a million. In the 1970, about 2 million. We have survived . Let's the planner to the planning and work towards welcoming good immigrants and workers to help to grow our economy. Our children needs that .

25/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore govt already FTA in ASEAN countries however is likely challenging job market here.

25/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Bhavani: If we make it any taller, they will only collapse

25/09/2023, 3:46 pm - +Bhavani: Our children are suffering in the heat

25/09/2023, 3:46 pm - +Rama: They will not!

25/09/2023, 3:46 pm - +Rama: We are targeting 30% self sufficiency

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Thomas: The talk of immigrant has taken a anti- immigrant turn over the years with politician wiping up the anti-immigrant frenzy primarily for votes and don't care the long term impact

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Rama: More greenery and less air conditioning might help.

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Thomas: The government is mindful of the racial quota

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Rama: To what extent!?

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Bhavani: Where have we survived? We are still talking about the economy even in 2023!

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Thomas: mainaining the current quota

25/09/2023, 3:48 pm - +Rama: Needs adjustment downwards

25/09/2023, 3:48 pm - +Rama: Disagree

25/09/2023, 3:49 pm - +Rama: Rejuvenation is the key

25/09/2023, 3:49 pm - +Bhavani: A freegan lifestyle which advocates a non materialistic world will help protect the environment

25/09/2023, 3:49 pm - +Rama: Our government is mindful and aware

25/09/2023, 3:50 pm - +Smiley face: 23 June, 2023

"The Proliferation of Population and the System of Dwellings and Sustainable Values."

Based on 2.5%-3.0%  growth model, the YOY incremental will achieve a 20% growth of the population (as at 2023) and 50% increased in the overall numbers of homes created within the next 12-15 years span.

The ecosystems and sustainability of prices, values, lives and livelihoods will have profound dynamics of change in terms of the trajectory of the GDP growth potential and the challenges of increasing density of the public space and the private dwellings which will redefine the bandwidth , the future values of these spectrum properties and infrastructure developments.

           - - in progress - -

25/09/2023, 3:50 pm - +Thomas: Economy will not be good next year most probably. We are impacted by global economy. If China invades Taiwan, surely impact in great way

25/09/2023, 3:50 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: In this day and age.. is maintaining the quota that impt? And if yes why?

25/09/2023, 3:50 pm - +KL: Wont be so fast :) . They need 18 years

25/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Thomas: Not maintain the worker quota, . It is maintaining the racial quota of 70% Chinese etc …. in total population

25/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: The quota lines have blurred over the years with inter racial marriages.. so then how do u define remaining status quo in the quota?

25/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Rama: Environmentally friendly

25/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Rama: AGREE

25/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia very slowest and many unsold property

25/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Rama: Mismanagement and bad foresight

25/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes

25/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: The % of others would definitely be larger now .. make this 1 category of itself then u will see the real statistics

25/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Thomas: Maybe in one or two generation. Race is no longer an issue in Singapore BUT , outside world will still be like our immediate neighbour , can't escape

25/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Rama: I hope so

25/09/2023, 3:53 pm - +Coconut Tree: disagree

25/09/2023, 3:55 pm - +Ah Heng: hurh race no longer issue -> dun bet on it not sure if any one read what is happen to school in Canada where they teaching the young there is no gender and lgbt is ok ...

25/09/2023, 3:56 pm - +Ah Heng: is that the type of screw up world u want your kids to live in where there is no gender base when obviously we are different ... parents were going up against the schools last week

25/09/2023, 3:56 pm - +Ah Heng: race is something about humans roots is about how we came about in this world ....

25/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +Thomas: We can have no race issue but maintain the correct gender perspective and not LGBT

25/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +Thomas: Gender and race are two separate thing

25/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +Ah Heng: which explains why we are different from person to person (despite being in the same race) ... that's how wonderful nature is

25/09/2023, 3:58 pm - +Ah Heng: frankly all these 40 over odd years we have no race issue

25/09/2023, 3:58 pm - +Ah Heng: it was till recent years that it became more obvious

25/09/2023, 3:58 pm - +Ah Heng: if we had race issue tell me how did south bridge road temple, mosque and hindu temple lived side by side ....

25/09/2023, 3:59 pm - +Ah Heng: everytime i bring tourist to there they are so filled with awe how singapore managed to do it ...

25/09/2023, 3:59 pm - +Thomas: Not really , we have anti-workers issue primarily if you listen to it , it is nuance as racial. That's why we have workers quota and from which country to which sectors

25/09/2023, 3:59 pm - +Ah Heng: workers issue cannot be lump as a race issue

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Rama: When interracial marriages become the norm, when children see each other as friends and not to be ostracized because of faith, race or religion,  likewise for grown up, when one work is not measured by one's turban, screen, cheongsam, song kok but strictly by ability, then we are matured as a people

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Ah Heng: that is to ensure a well balance and to (well hopefully safe guard for us local)

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Thomas: If you listen to the politician and in parliament , there are nuance to it

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Thomas: The CECA is very obvious, racial

25/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Ah Heng: else if there is no bars on this area we will have been overrun by south asia people

25/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Thomas: We have FTA to a lot of countries but why CECA with India a big issue , then we have anti-Indian coming up over the years as it is a very good votes getting

25/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Ah Heng: CECA was a treaty but is the contents of the treaty (memorandum that turn racial)

25/09/2023, 4:02 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:02 pm - +Ah Heng: maybe someone can dig out the contents of the FTA thing there is a couple of clause that is ridiculous to any lay men

25/09/2023, 4:03 pm - +Thomas: The FTA is similar , I have look at it in my work and no difference from other FTA

25/09/2023, 4:03 pm - +Ah Heng: am sure in our fta with china there is no such clause like for my CN people to work in singapire they must be empoly no lesser than a executive or manager and they MUST be allow to bring their families over over

25/09/2023, 4:03 pm - +Ah Heng: that was what was share many years ago in public that cause the rise in unfairness

25/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Thomas: I am not sure about this. I don't seem to see that in the FTA

25/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Ah Heng: and looking around we see more and more of south asians white collar .....

25/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Thomas: It is on the government website for all the FTA with other countries

25/09/2023, 4:04 pm - +Ah Heng: compare to others ... thus the sentiments will be different

25/09/2023, 4:05 pm - +Ah Heng: remember the same when there was a time where public were pissed to have many loud mouth CN in singapore

25/09/2023, 4:05 pm - +Ah Heng: but they are blue collars workers yet we the public scream also

25/09/2023, 4:05 pm - +Ah Heng: how well balance are these FT no one knows

25/09/2023, 4:05 pm - +Ah Heng: cos if we were to scream why not at our neighbour

25/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Ah Heng: how many hundreds of thousand cross that 2 bridge to work here......

25/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Thomas: That will be cross culture impact and tolerance . Whenever I come to this, I think of my ancestor who have similar feelings but tolerate it

25/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Ah Heng: yes pin point

25/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Ah Heng: the culture

25/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Thomas: But have them imposing their culture on us is a big NO

25/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Ah Heng: our neighbors have a closer culture system as us

25/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Ah Heng: the cn have their cultur but they do not impose on us but seems to go theirs and mixing with ours

25/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Ah Heng: but south asia if observed carefully they are always in their circle

25/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Ah Heng: those in mnc will know

25/09/2023, 4:08 pm - +Ah Heng: is not a rumour is not about false hood but given they chance to bring their kind in they will

25/09/2023, 4:08 pm - +Ah Heng: again we off topic

25/09/2023, 4:08 pm - +Ah Heng: talking about old age

25/09/2023, 4:08 pm - +Ah Heng: for today else later megan gonna scream again

25/09/2023, 4:09 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: Any the westerners 😂

25/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ah Heng: westerners well they are as per they .......

25/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ah Heng: but mainly they are here b/c is so call cheap but not today many are moving out

25/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ah Heng: cos we no longer cheap

25/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ah Heng: in fact who told them come asia must be cheap

25/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Ah Heng: that's they stero typing asia

25/09/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ah Heng: aged workers - i support the govt for pushing many years in thsi area

25/09/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ah Heng: but hoping the public to work on this is hopeless

25/09/2023, 4:12 pm - +Ah Heng: like mentioned earlier there are so many loop holes and disadvantage pose for these and we the soon to be aged workers

25/09/2023, 4:13 pm - +Ah Heng: so instead of relying on the public why not the scholars and brainies in teh civil service think of something to create a new sector run and mgt by 50's and above

25/09/2023, 4:14 pm - +Ah Heng: 50's and above will have quote a good pool of local talents from varies industry

25/09/2023, 4:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Just to update everyone about the outcome of anti-scam measures, got some good news for everyone.

1. OCBC anti-scam mobile apps - government will work with other banks to come out with similar security measures.

Citibank has done it.

Other banks should be on the pipeline.

2. ScamShield has pre-launch anti-scam messages from WhatsApp.

I think should announced it soon.

3. My 2nd proposal to conduct call back verification - physically in bank, video conferencing and telephone call back and the vulnerability of biometric authentication --- the Minister request me to take it offline and do a deep discussion with the Minister team as it will delve into highly confidential stuff.

I have provided my contact details and the Ministry officer have followed up with me.

I have provided a comprehensive explanation about my solutions.

In addition, I have provided a deep discussion on the solutions - not for public domain - due to its sensitivity.

4. The Ministry officer will send all the discussion to all respective agencies.

FYI.

25/09/2023, 4:14 pm - +Ah Heng: of cos the pay cannot be their last drawn but neither to be low ... give it something that is respectable for survival with adequate benefits like medical and leaves n bonus (maybe in cpf)

25/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

25/09/2023, 4:24 pm - +Coconut Tree: CECA is a culture issue. Not a race issue. When you have the CECA vermin seeking to impose their own culture on the host country, you can definitely expect push back.

25/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Bhavani: What about Burmese,Vietnamese, Korean, USA and Europeans among us? They are also not acceptable. They have their own countries to go back to.

25/09/2023, 4:27 pm - +Bhavani: We cannot be bringing everyone from everywhere as this could lead to disharmony and even terrorism

25/09/2023, 4:27 pm - +Bhavani: due to the overcrowdedness.

25/09/2023, 4:27 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is xenophobic and I don't think is an attitude singaporeans should accept.

25/09/2023, 4:28 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If the world ignore Singapore, we will all be dead.

25/09/2023, 4:28 pm - +Sam: This is definitely minority thinking

25/09/2023, 4:28 pm - +Bhavani: We must learn to be self sufficient

25/09/2023, 4:29 pm - +Bhavani: Why depend on others when we can depend on ourself?

25/09/2023, 4:29 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think you don't understand how vulnerable Singapore are. And what you say is dangerous.

25/09/2023, 4:29 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think you won't have clean water to drink if Netherlands expert don't help us to produce drinkable water.

25/09/2023, 4:30 pm - +Ah Heng: think some of us missed the point here

25/09/2023, 4:30 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singaporeans will still be staying in kampong if we only depend on ourselves.

25/09/2023, 4:30 pm - +Ah Heng: any group that try to impose and inject their way of living is not acceptable

25/09/2023, 4:30 pm - +Bhavani: Just like other countries citizens have  their human rights protected, we Singaporeans need our human rights to be protected. <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Ah Heng: is like us singaporean try that in US inject our way of living there you think the locals will like

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Ah Heng: they will riots against us

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think you won't have money, you won't have food to eat, and you can't even defend yourself based on what you say.

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Ah Heng: we welcome people but dun take your host house as your own and start decorating it the way you like

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Rama: Only to a certain extent

25/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Ah Heng: live in the house as a well behave guest

25/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Rama: You are missing the bigger picture

25/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Ah Heng: that's basic manners

25/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Ah Heng: to certain extend depending on our selves how far have we achieve?

25/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Rama: Our government is mindful about this

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Ah Heng: it will be interesting to knwo when teh global stage decided not to sell staples and resource what happen to us

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Bhavani: Exactly

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Rama: Your narrow thinking will lead us no where

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Ah Heng: so what if we have alot of money when no one is selling

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Rama: Exactly

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Ah Heng: we need still to be self sufficient in certain areas

25/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Bhavani: We can grow our own food

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - +Ah Heng: eat drink and breathe these are the basic

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - +Rama: To what extent!?

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

More than 70% of our food come from foreign countries.

3 times our size of GDP are traded with foreign countries.

Else we don't even have reserves.

Government build HDB flat for you to stay 

Our army got no arms to protect us.

Xenophobic carry to the extreme - become radical nationalist - and is dangerous.

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - +Ah Heng: we cannot depend on friends to always help

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 4:34 pm - +Bhavani: Exactly

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If Singapore totally shut ourselves out - we cannot even survive for 3 months.

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - +Rama: Totally agree

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - +Bhavani: Wanting our home for ourselves is not xenophopic

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - +Ah Heng: who is saying to shut singapore up

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Now you got no home?

25/09/2023, 4:35 pm - +Rama: You have a lot to comprehend

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Ah Heng: any darn country bigger than singapore of cos they can do it

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +~L: Your language is what is causing disharmony.

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Ah Heng: ask any secondary school the same they will say is crazy to shut ourself up

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Ah Heng: BUT our enemy will be able to do it then what

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Rama: We are being constantly watched to find signs of weakness

25/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Ah Heng: that;s why to certain extend and in this forum it was discuss before how independent can we be

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: now that danny say 70% of our food is import

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: is our weakest link

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Bhavani: Exactly

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Rama: No choice

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: seriously dun think too great of oneself

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: is not no choice we have a choice

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: we can innovate

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Even big countries like China and US cannot shut their borders.

What make you think Singapore a red dot can?

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: we were once a farming land

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: a fishing cillage

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: village

25/09/2023, 4:37 pm - +Ah Heng: us will not shut

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Rama: We are not a agricultural nation with huge land

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Ah Heng: u think china dare not shut

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +~L: We are not 'bringing' people in like cattle. They are going through stringent checks and have very little rights here.

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Ah Heng: wait and see

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +~L: The country was built by hard working foreigners - everyone or their ancestors were foreigners!

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Ah Heng: from pigs farms to chicken farms to fish slowly slowly we killing the lands for something else

25/09/2023, 4:38 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Ah Heng: and that give rise to the 70%

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Ah Heng: of food import

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +~L: We have excellent local talent who work with overseas talent to share and build

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Rama: Very hard to let go but circumstances dictate

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +~L: The overseas talent often leave and the local talent stays to reap the benefits

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Ah Heng: the day will come again when people will ask why this was not forsee

25/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Ah Heng: already we saw what happen to covid

25/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +~L: Without being integrated into the world economy, Singapore will quickly shrink and die.

25/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +~L: We will become vulnerable to unscrupulous neighbours

25/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +~L: An easy target to manipulate and hold to ransom

25/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +Ah Heng: anyway those in here will not see the decline of singapore if not plan further

25/09/2023, 4:41 pm - +Ah Heng: cos we will be ashes in village for the dead condo hahahaha

25/09/2023, 4:41 pm - +~L: Singapore is a rich land of diversity and racial and religious harmony. Xenophobic language will lead to the race riots of the 60s once more. Who wants that?

25/09/2023, 4:42 pm - +Rama: Whoever here feels the country is on the wrong track, please present a white paper to the government

25/09/2023, 4:42 pm - +Ah Heng: why not ask who feel the govt shoudl do more for basic independence ... 70% of food supplies form outside i darn dangerous

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Ah Heng: water no issue we drinking recycle water now

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Ah Heng: but food

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Coconut Tree: The amount of nearly useless FT I've seen over the years says otherwise. Quite a few sitting in C suites drawing millions.

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Rama: Newwater

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Ah Heng: pretty critical

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +~L: It's because people want to buy that food, it's not the gov job to prevent import of food.

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Ah Heng: please lah dun give fashion name

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +Ah Heng: recu=ycle is recyle hahahaha

25/09/2023, 4:43 pm - +~L: What food can we live on that is produced in Singapore? Fish and Eggs I guess

25/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +Rama: Lab grown redmeat and chicken

25/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +~L: can't feed 5 million on that....

25/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +Ah Heng: china have innovate till big are breed in hotel style building

25/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +Ah Heng: 600 pigs at one shot ....

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +Rama: Hydroponic style vertical tube crab too being tested

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +Bhavani: With new technology its possible

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +~L: Yes, one day.

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +Ah Heng: our drive for innovation is going down because we keep saying local no talents hahaah

25/09/2023, 4:46 pm - +~L: How do we develop that technology without collaboration with overseas partners?

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Bhavani: We should train singaporeans on innovative technology

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Already one restaurant here is selling ladle grown redmeat

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Ongoing

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Cannot be done

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Bhavani: By using our own brain

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +~L: Who's brain? Do they just invent it in their sleep?

25/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Bhavani: All brains are the same, they just need to be used

25/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Rama: Whose brain gave we been using all this while!?

25/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Ah Heng: our briains are not bad seriously just that generation now want to brain it out in aircon envrionment hahahaha

25/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +~L: omg - i'm not engaging in this.

25/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Ah Heng: not like the past where the people actually go out and see , feel, experienced things themselves

25/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Bhavani: By using other people's brains, we are stagnating our own <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 4:49 pm - +~L: Do you have any idea how education works? It is through sharing ideas and observations.

25/09/2023, 4:49 pm - +Rama: Rubbish as there's collaboration

25/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +~L: exactly

25/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Bhavani: We are facing so many problems! Other countries have not solved the issue of overcrowding in sg, nor the generation of tons of rubbish, they have not addressed the unbearable heat in Singapore, they are not providing adequate monetary help to the disabled and elderly who are still toiling in 2023

25/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +~L: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65784505 - "created in California, grown in Singapore"

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Rama: Do you have a viable solution!?

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Bhavani: Jus because they are sharing their idea does not give them the right to live in Singapore

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Ah Heng: sorry but why always i see people telling others here do we have a solution

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Ah Heng: if we have a solution wwe will not be in HERE

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Minister Tan See Leng is right to point out that :-

a. Negative employers attitude to older workers

b. Age discrimination

c. Limited availability of suitable job opportunities for senior workers 

are indeed major obstacle to support seniors to continue working in Singapore - at least based on what I know with such group of seniors around me.

Many want to work, but the factors mentioned above don't support their desires to work.

2. In fact, some at the age of 60s want to continue working, but management are already make conditions unfavourable for them to continue working.

It happens not only to private sectors, GLCs adopt similar posture.

3. Unless closer supervision by Government on employers - such as audit, whistle-blowing, more interactions with CEOs and senior management to adopt senior friendly HR policies - can Singapore succeed to support seniors to continue working and contributing to Singapore.

25/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Ah Heng: we will have been selected to be in civil service already hahahaha

25/09/2023, 4:53 pm - +Rama: What gives you the right to question our government foresight without probable cause!?

25/09/2023, 4:53 pm - +Coconut Tree: I can vouch for the GLCs here.

Have personally seen Senior Managers being forced out due to age.

25/09/2023, 4:53 pm - +Ah Heng: army long ago had that issue

25/09/2023, 4:53 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think your view is not mainstream and the majority don't support your views - as it is detrimental to Singapore national interest and development.

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Bhavani: The government has allowed me to share my views here

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Ah Heng: because to them is if all the inceck still stay then how the young climb

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Ah Heng: so golden handsake

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Rama: That's not my question! ?

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Ah Heng: go be taxi drivers or security guards

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Ah Heng: but danny listed is already what we see

25/09/2023, 4:55 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Rama: I am a senior security supervisor

25/09/2023, 4:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But this has nothing to do with foreigners taking away our jobs.

25/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Coconut Tree: I don't mind if it's some retirement mode oldie who's just taking up space.

But I've seen those who are actively contributing, who's process knowledge/industry contacts can't be easily replaced get shoved out the door all the same.

25/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Bhavani: if we share our ideas with other countries, does it give us the right to stay in those countries?

25/09/2023, 4:57 pm - +~L: Yes, if they want you there to share your ideas. People only have the rights we give them. Same as any country.

25/09/2023, 4:57 pm - +Rama: We must share and be an open society to remain relevant

25/09/2023, 4:57 pm - +Ah Heng: please in army these inceck lobo they might be but the experiences they have and training is not what morden day trainings can give

25/09/2023, 4:58 pm - +Coconut Tree: Not army - GLC. =)

Army - yeah I totally get your point.

25/09/2023, 4:58 pm - +Bhavani: That's not my view as I am personally suffering

25/09/2023, 4:59 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

You suffer because of foreigners?

25/09/2023, 4:59 pm - +Bhavani: Anyway, all of us have a right to our own views.

25/09/2023, 4:59 pm - +Bhavani: Yes everywhere is crowded.

25/09/2023, 4:59 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But there are still plenty of jobs.

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +~L: Yes, of course. And that is what people say when they realise their own views have little basis in fact or logic.

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +Rama: Who isn't in their own way!?

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +Bhavani: Please don't talk like your view is the only view <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

How is crowded make you suffer?

China country very big - but also very crowded with their own nationals.

25/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +~L: I recommend Macritche reservoir or the Wetlands as a place for peace and quiet.

25/09/2023, 5:01 pm - +Rama: Or Botanical Gardens

25/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Bhavani: We have to look at the bigger picture. Crowdednes is not environmentally sustainable

25/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +~L: I welcome other people's views and we are here to debate ideas and suggestions. I think it's important to be open to people from everywhere and get the best ideas. History shows us countries thrive when being positive and they suffer when they close their doors.

25/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Are you claustrophobic!?

25/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Bhavani: No I'm not

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Rama: We learn from mistakes and each other

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Bhavani: I am only environmentally conscious

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Rama: So are most of us in our own way

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Bhavani: Not at all xenophobic

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t think this time suffer crowd and storage foods

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Look like your some unhappiness with some foreigners - skew your thoughts - adopt radical thinking and become xenophobic.

I don't understand crowding can make a person suffer.

Every country city is crowded.

25/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Hong Kong too crowded and apartment become smallest

25/09/2023, 5:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: Live up hill mountain climbing up

25/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Bhavani: Yes crowdedness is not acceptable in any country as all the nature sites are disappearing <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 5:05 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pulau ubin got people stay there.

Every where forest, not crowded.

No HDB flats.

I think a good place for environmentalists like you.

Singapore mainland sorry.

It will develop and continue to develop.

25/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Bhavani: Why must Singapore also become like this

25/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore has way building development and how to live space and travel

25/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Rama: People are needed to run the country economy and provide various services

25/09/2023, 5:06 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because everyone Singaporeans want to live and prosper.

You can't chase everyone out just because you one person want to stay in forest.

25/09/2023, 5:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Stair cases and hdb void deck <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Bhavani: People are providing services that only profit themselves.

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Instead of moving the mountain, move yourself to the forest in pulau ubin.

Don't disturb the whole population who don't share your views.

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Rama: We can't grow our economy, defend our borders, provide adequate law enforcement, medical services on a population base on 1965 independence!

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +~L: Nurses? Teachers? Police? Fire?

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Why don’t you experience living in Hong Kong 🇭🇰 compared to Singapore which more people than living

25/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Bhavani: Hi please understand that many Singaporeans are complaining in alternative sites, not just me.

25/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Rama: The government is aware

25/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Sighhh don’t know they complaint living 🤦

25/09/2023, 5:09 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pse provide statistics how many people share your views?

In this REACH, I think no one seems to be supporting your views.

25/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Ah Heng: Think there are some feels the crword is there because we seeing leaser greens around the island and that is pretty true

25/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Bhavani: Massage therapist, beauticians, slimming therapists are overcharging for their services.

25/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Rama: If you want a short life, I suggest pulau taking or seraya

25/09/2023, 5:10 pm - +Sam: I know some who prefer bigger space and migrated to Australia

25/09/2023, 5:10 pm - +Rama: Supply and demand is not the government responsibility

25/09/2023, 5:10 pm - +Sam: Batam is not a bad choice either, just one hour from Singapore

25/09/2023, 5:10 pm - +Bhavani: Products in malls also very expensive

25/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +Rama: Bintan too!

25/09/2023, 5:11 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

There are many greeneries around except people don't go look for it.

Maritchie, punggol, Labrador, east coast, west coast etc etc.

Singaporeans need to live, cannot be greenery everywhere.

Look at what he say, he is totally unrealistic and self-serving.

25/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +Rama: Agree but window shop then!

25/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +Bhavani: How can they charge what they like? There are spine sufferers who cannot afford such treatments. Neither can they afford government treatments. <This message was edited>

25/09/2023, 5:12 pm - +Rama: We have the consumers association of Singapore

25/09/2023, 5:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think you only complain complain and complain.

But many reasonable people are not like you

25/09/2023, 5:12 pm - +Bhavani: The consumers association expects consumers to pay to go to the courts.

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Bhavani: Definitely not. I never complain without reason.

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Rama: Can you advise constructive feedback?

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Bhavani: Hi are you a government official to tell me that?

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But honestly, can you name anyone here support what you say?

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Rama: Your reason has no foundation

25/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Rama: Hugh!?

25/09/2023, 5:14 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Hahaha let's not get personal.. we are having a discussion 😂😉😂

25/09/2023, 5:14 pm - +Bhavani: You told me to give constructive feedback. Are you a government official to advise me?

25/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Rama: Are you locally born or imported via ceca!?

25/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Bhavani: If Megan tells me that my views are not valid, then I will leave the room at once.

25/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Rama: You have not breach the tolerance

25/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Bhavani: Of course I'm a true blue Singaporean!

25/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think nobody complained about how they earning living spent example outdoor, meeting gather or family’s time

25/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Bhavani: Born and brought up in Singapore

25/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Rama: Don't feel any vibes from your views

25/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Rama: To each their own

25/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +Bhavani: Neither do I from your's

25/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +Rama: We are on different wave lengths

25/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: If there is short storage ppl will suffer and overcrowding foodstuffs

25/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: I see everyday ppl going out spent time at supermarket or NTUC is normal nothing crowd but ppl are nice and treat respect ourselves

25/09/2023, 5:20 pm - +Rama: The elderly and those who are not or cannot work.

25/09/2023, 5:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: Request their check up health and physical if they can work

25/09/2023, 5:21 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +Frankie Wee: Not all elderly can work at any job because of physical issue caused unfitness to work

25/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 5:38 pm - +Jimmy Chew: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/govtech-indeed-hire-staff-salary-engineers-3796426

25/09/2023, 5:39 pm - +Jimmy Chew: How many above 50 or 60 years old

25/09/2023, 5:41 pm - +Coconut Tree: if there were 50 year olds working in Indeed i'll be damn surprised.

25/09/2023, 5:44 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Haha yeah what am I thinking. 40s ,?

25/09/2023, 5:45 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I thought now a shortages of programmers?

25/09/2023, 5:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"This world-class airport will soon go passport-free" - using only biometric authentication.

 https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/changi-airport-singapore-passport-free-travel-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=Manulife-,This%20world%2Dclass%20airport%20will%20soon%20go%20passport%2Dfree,-Heather%20Chen%2C%20CNN

25/09/2023, 6:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

25/09/2023, 6:00 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Understand that a full biometric authentication solutions have been rolled out for Changi airport immigration.

I don't have so much worry - as immigration system is a close and secure system with dedicated broadband lines and the biometric data are stored in the Interpol database with strong encryption.

Scammers and hackers have no chance to access the biometric data.

However in the event biometric authentication is to roll out for banking via open internet, then biometric authentication will face the real test against the world hackers at large.

25/09/2023, 6:00 pm - +Rama: Yes

25/09/2023, 6:01 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But biometric authentication use in immigration no worries.

Can use.

It is different from what we discussed.

25/09/2023, 6:02 pm - +Rama: Banking, retail transaction online is a worry

25/09/2023, 6:04 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Don't worry.

Government has alot of specialists and expertise behind.

Also got professors.

So they know what to do.

Meanwhile we hold our breath and wait for government to find the best safeguards for us.

25/09/2023, 6:04 pm - +Rama: Agree

25/09/2023, 6:06 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cool

25/09/2023, 6:50 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *10 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

25/09/2023, 6:53 pm - +Anne: Dear G, 

Why not do away with retirement age concept altogether? Those who do very well financially may retire at a much earlier age, ignoring your official retirement age altogether. Those who don’t have enough to retire will want to continue working till they die. Otherwise you will be spending every few years discussing the delaying of the official retirement age. We all know why this is happening and will continue to happen - the use of fake money that continues to debase in value, not just in SG but all over the world.

Thank you.

25/09/2023, 6:54 pm - +Rama: Good point

25/09/2023, 6:57 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

25/09/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: 25 September, 2023

"Starting from 55 years old!"

"The Skills Future programs are for our existing and younger workforce; the Golden Skills programs are transitional/transformation skills training for our ageing workers?"

- - anonymity 

Pitch & Miss?

When you are pitching to extend the retirement to 70 years old; first thing first, it is a noble course and a reality. However, the 'actual reality' of the employment markets will pivot at 65 years or in this policy is the median mark of enabling extended employment for our able aging seniors not just to continue earning an income but to stay both mentally and physically active, self sufficient, and be relevant to contribute to the larger communities. 

Second, the manpower ministry and the unions will have to redesign all of these ageing roles or jobs to enable the businesses and organisations to easily adapt and adopt these irreversible course of equal employment actions or the Policy of ensuring our aging workers to continue being employed under various calibrated incentives to every employer in order to make it viable and more attractive to retain these senior workers once they reached the age of 55 years old. 

Third, the early interventions and encouragement ls must begin after the age of 55 and onwards. In simple language, the incentives programs will have to be kicked in at this pre-aging metric or it may later on be too late to mend the gaps of unemployment or even worse, many unemployable situations which will be harder to address and realign to our policy objective of the 70 years old earmark of employment.

"The dynamics of transformation can be group into three ∆, that is 56-60yrs, 61-65yrs and 66-70yrs. Each age group has its unique characteristics and challenges that requires careful understanding before any calibrated moves to change it."

- - anonymity 

Keys of Transformation?

Procedures, Reskilling, Developing leaders, Commitment, Motivations, Priorities, Purposes and Reality checks on Direction, Vision and Realign.

In summarising:  

The key points to take away are contributions, economics mobility, and self sufficiency.

The structure of this policy must include the economics of hiring that makes financial sense to all employers with the 'tri-share' (tripartite) structure of compensations to these older workers in order to drive a positive and successful outcome for all parties.

What employers want is productivity and operational costs. And the perspective of employees is to earn a constant stream of incomes. On the policy front, it is to mitigate lives and livelihoods of an accelerated aging work force and thereafter an enlarged aging population.

The government shall carry the weight of increased CPF contributions from 2% to 4% with emphasis on age and income as the means to the percentage of rates increase. 

Two, the Union must seek out the disadvantages from the view of the employers to negotiate many solutions of continue hiring older workers from the age of 55 years old to 70 years old. How many of these workers each business has matters most to the business all because of costing and competitiveness?

Last but not the least, employees must embrace these irreversible aging and employability so much so to 'forgo' a portion of their salary to stay relevant and helping their employers to stay afloat. Why do so? The old saying," it takes two hands to clap!". 

That's the essence of trust between the bosses and the workers regardless of age, race or competency!

What is dignity and respect to all of our aging workers? Unavoidable and Irreversible course of lives, that's the answer!

Afterwords:

"Costing vs Competitiveness?"

"When you cut a triangle into half, you have a trapezoid (up to 5 ∆), and a smaller triangle."

- - anonymity

In all organisational structures, it is a shape of a triangle with the bottom being the broadest baseline which in turns is the majority of the operation workers and there on the internal costs of business.

If you cut the original triangle and out comes a trapezoid, what will be the factors of production of an organisation versus the new and smaller triangle?

Where are the aging workers current stations of work; in the enlarged triangle or the trapezoid; before and after effects of applying the costs and the competitiveness of a business?

A smaller triangle means smaller operations and a smaller scale of business.

The bigger, taller & broader a triangle is, the larger the organisation and the higher the costs structure is to support its operations and staying competitive versus other small triangles in this flattening and fragmented world of trades and commerce!

The key is how much to CUT these triangles, aka the "tuna fats" in order for any big fish to survive and less for the smaller ones!

So what is the cost of shaving and how to not OVERLY shave it? And transformation is one big SHAPER & SHAVER of costs and efficiency especially to the 'big, bigger and biggest and tallest (+/-h) triangle!

That's the billion dollars question! It's an Art than Science to slice the fats off the bottom!

              - - in progress - -

25/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan  😊

25/09/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group

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