REACH 401 - What are your thoughts on Singapore’s public housing affordability? Do you think the latest measures and forms of support are sufficient to ensure affordable public housing for the masses?
(SK)
05 Oct 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:47 am, 05/10/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[10:00 am, 05/10/2022] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
Minister Desmond Lee, in Parliament on Oct 4, said that the Government will intervene and do what is "necessary" to ensure affordable public housing for Singaporeans as well as a stable property market. He added that keeping public housing accessible is a "key national priority" and provides the basic foundation to raise families, bring up children and build strong communities.
He elaborated on the rationale for the latest slew of measures announced on Sept 30 to moderate demand in the HDB resale market. He said these were meant to ensure HDB flats remain affordable and to encourage prudent borrowing amid the rising interest rate environment.
๐ฌ What are your thoughts on Singapore’s public housing affordability? Do you think the latest measures and forms of support are sufficient to ensure affordable public housing for the masses?
One of the measures introduced was a wait-out period of 15 months before private property owners are allowed to purchase a non-subsidised HDB resale flat. Mr Lee said this measure aims to moderate demand and slow the momentum of price increases in the HDB resale market, by deferring demand from private property owners, so that HDB resale flats will continue to be an affordable option for first-time HDB flat buyers.
Some measures and forms of support for affordable public housing include:
๐ Homebuyers with different housing needs and budgets can service their loans. Thus the home price to income ratio in Singapore is still lower than in other cities like Hong Kong.
๐ When pricing new flats, HDB first establishes their market value by considering the prices of comparable resale flats nearby, the individual attributes of the flats and prevailing market conditions. To derive the selling prices, HDB applies a significant subsidy to the assessed market values to ensure new flats are affordable to first-time buyers.
๐The Government provides significant housing grants for the purchase of resale flats of up to $160,000 for eligible first-time buyers, and receive Enhanced CPF Housing Grants (EHG) of up to $80,000, with more help for lower-income buyers.
๐ The mortgage servicing ratio has generally remained below 25 per cent for most new and resale first-timer flat buyers taking an HDB loan. Thus most first-timer buyers can service their housing loans using their monthly CPF contributions, with little or no cash outlay.
๐ Introduction of property cooling measures on 30 Sep: tightening the maximum amount that can be taken for flat loans, setting higher interest floor rates and introducing a wait-out period of fifteen months for private homeowners buying resale flats.
๐๐ผ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/singapore-committed-to-affordable-public-housing-will-intervene-as-needed-desmond-lee
๐๐ผ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/hdb-incurred-270m-loss-for-ang-mo-kio-bto-project-desmond-lee
๐๐ผ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/15-month-wait-out-period-to-moderate-hdb-resale-flat-demand-ensure-affordability-desmond-lee
๐๐ผ https://www.straitstimes.com/business/property/stricter-borrowing-criteria-for-property-buyers-15-month-wait-for-private-property-owners-moving-to-hdb-flats
๐๐ผ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/hdb-resale-prices-rise-24-in-q3-may-dip-in-coming-months-after-cooling-measures
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[10:22 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Similar topic we discussed before?
[10:23 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: The 15mth wait out period is just a temporary stop gap measure
[10:26 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Those who need a roof will still needs a roof
[10:26 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Could be because of the pandemic which causes the delay delivery of BTOs
[10:27 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Hence those can't wait had to seek from resale market
[10:27 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Which causes the pent up demand
[10:27 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Demand n Supply
[10:28 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: Owners took this opportunity to flip for higher returns
[10:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Err you buy high you sell high ๐
[10:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Unless you downgrade to smaller size
[10:39 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: The interest from HDB then you can technically earn from it
[10:40 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Private using bank loan so when interest goes up.. they can’t service the loan will have to force to sell
[11:02 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 5 October, 2022
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members & Stakeholders
"How to make ends meet?"
"Set the 'sky-high' or the high becomes higher?"
- - annoymous
Ceilings:
Set a price for each type of new flat and these prices shall be reviewed every 5 years with a maximum price adjustments of 5% or less.
Example for near city flats, the starting price from $300,000 to $1,000,000. For matured or non matured estates, prices vary according to location with a maximum price ceiling of $800,000.
During the first 10 years of occupancy regardless of new or used flats, only 1 bedroom can be leased out.
A fixed interest rates for the first 5 years of a new flat. For used flat, it will be based on prevailing interest rates.
Are the above doabl…
[11:03 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: 1. Govt 15 months waiting period is will not going to hurt Rich.
It only hurts the people who really need money for some other reasons and wants to downgrade.
The rich will easily move to Resale Suburb Condos instead of Million dollar HDB flats
2. Very few buyers who are down garders actually casuing Bubble in market.
Just stopping this group will not solve the problem.
The major Group are Newly Minted Rich Citziens and PRs.
Who are seggregating in New estates.
3. When Resale prices are bench mark for BTOs
Soon we will see 400k 3rms even in Non mature Estates.
Instead of stopping this group of buyers, focusing on the lessthan 1% of million dollar flats is will rather. Gives more problems than solving it.
4. Reducing LTV 85 TO 80% is big draeback for Youngsters who don't have enough Cpf or cash, and it's deffinatly not the right move at all.
5.increasing floor rate for Loan calculations is good move in this Uncertain market segments.
This is the only good thing i can say.
6. When The Citizens suffering with lack of supply of Housing allowing PRs doesn't make sense.
As if they are being penalised by Buying Condos before, being penalised as what ever they bought before now or later Govt can track and prohibit them buying HDBs. Where as the rest of the HDB buyers (PR families) what they own, how much their Properties worth etc, they are at advantage as govt no way will know about that.
7. Rentals will go up, and this might leads to more high prices, as investors will get more rental yield (For condos) .
And when resale Condo price goes higher and higher, the abv AVG group who wants buy resale Condos earlier might end up to look at Hdb market, and Hdb market will go higher.
8. Not sure how much ground work Hdb n URA did before coming up with this unwise Measures, which only will impact slightly and prices might go even further.
The increase in Floor rates is good move, they shouldn't have introduced other things at all!
How to tackle The bubble in Property markets
1. For now stop PRs buying RESALE HDBs
2. Increase Buyer stampduties for Condos.
(Not only ABSD, but Over rall stampduty)
3. Increase ABSD/ Stampduty especially if one single family having multiple properties.
Foreigners who buys more than one million make them pay more stamp fee
4. Limit the usage of CPF for Private properties (scrap Rule of limited Cpf usage for Older properties, this creating a bubble in Market, as every one wants to buy Less than 10yrs hdbs(u can see bubble happend only in Just MOP, Or less than 10yr old properties)
Make the buyer pay more Stampfee When they buy This New MOP flats, so they will have less money to pay COVs, so the prices will be controlled.
5.for PRs who already bought Hdbs, Make them Sell only to HDBs
So this group of buyers should know that HDBs are not for investment.
Penalising Citizens will not be good idea, as mentioned by Mr. LKY. Citizens should have flexibility to sell and make bit money out of it when they come to retirement age
The PR group they won't retire here and they will have houses back home. So PR Hdbs must and only can sell to HDB.
6. Penalise people who owns multiple properties, not the one who will have only one like if a person has A 2 room condo now and once he sell and buys HDBs penalising him is the biggest Mistake, as it is still his only one property, where this group will go, if they already sold? Example if he got 100k profit, rental now Is more than 3k for 3rm HDB, he will end up camping or being homeless!
I sincerely wish Govt will recall this 15 month Waiting period
Instead will introuduce the other measures which i have stated above.
[11:07 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Good Morning,
Perhaps this 15 mth cooling period can be best expressed as managing the"supply & demand" or smoothing out the 'process of queueing'?
Hope it makes abit of rational sense? Thank you.
[11:08 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: As i said Above
If supply and demand.they should stop PRs buying HDB
First before they penalise Citizens!
So it does not make any sense to me
[11:10 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: If they have stopped PRs buying hdbs then at least i would think
Yes they did for supply and Demand Point of view!
[11:13 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Ok, got your points.
Permanent Residents should either buy Private properties from EC onwards or rent anyplaces from HDB?
Is that one way in looking and solving these Crunching times and High prices of properties from Public to Private ones?
[11:14 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: The point of PR is in hope that they settle here
[11:14 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: To improve on our fertility issue…
[11:14 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Cannot buy won’t have kids less likely to settle here
[11:16 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: PR nowadays is so much harder to get… only decent citizen gets to apply and approve. Gone were the days of just apply and get it
[11:16 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Ken, Good Morning!
Attracting people to settle in and patching the birth rates. Another valid view too.
[11:17 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes I know very well
[11:17 am, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Having MBA/PHD is still not enough!
[11:17 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: If then reducing 85 to 80% LTV is super bad idea!
[11:17 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: True!
Quality immigrants, Singapore space is finite. Only those whom are valued and able to contribute will have priority over the next and so on...
[11:18 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Lol phd if not within their want list sorry won’t get also
[11:19 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Attarcting๐
There are sooo many people applying For PRs
So the demand is very good out there, so no need to worry if any one will settle here or not.
The Super good Foreign talents like Tech pass etc Govt talking
They neither wont live In HDBs nor Mingle with citizens
So no need to care about this group
Where they will go
If stop them buying HDBs
[11:19 am, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Current and past incentives/subsidies still not pro family enough to procreate. So, PM knows having sufficient homes still not equate to increase birth rate!
[11:19 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: What if 80% not effective and maybe adjusting towards 70%?
[11:20 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: True!
Our birth rate is 1.2 or lesser.
So where, when and how to patch it up to 1.8? Ideally is 2.1!
[11:20 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I guess locals wont dare to marry,
If marry also they wont dare to Start families
Money no enough
For downpayment installments
Kids Tuitions etc tec
[11:21 am, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Policy is still blind!
[11:21 am, 05/10/2022] +Uncle Law: It will only cause demands in private resale, causing price to rise. Those can't afford Citizens will come back to HDB resale
[11:22 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: True!
One demographic changes that is deferment of marriage.
One more is the idea of FREEDOM, no need to worry about the future, by staying Single makes sense to many of our young ones!
[11:23 am, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Agree
[11:23 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: From past few months (i guess 6 months )
I have been telling here multiple times
IN HDB resale MARKET
FORMING BUBBLE
a clear bubble
Price sif Just MOP is ridiculosly higher
Where as old ones like abv 20, 30, 40 yeare hardly any buyers (except the Very rare kind of HDB, so plz dont mix up)
[11:27 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: So the throphies of choice are flats under 15 years or younger? Almost like 80% of resales are these lots, whether to up or down size?
Correct to assume? Thanks
Then comes the price bubbles....
[11:28 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I only cn say
URA and hdb didnt really do Complete ground work
What we seeing in Newspapers like Millior dollor 4rm etc etc
They quickly want to address this segment.
Instead of finding root cause of this!
So move they have taken with out Actually thinking!
Now HDB would have flooded with Appeals by people.alrdy sold their Condos, thinking of Buying HDBs!!
Lets see
How much prices will reduce next month
[11:33 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I am not saying Resale trancsations!
I m saying those transacted above Valuations
And Causing bubble are Mostly
Less than 10yrs old flats
So bubble is in this segment
Rest all are transacting normal or low Val
If asking high
And some areas Old flats even 20yrs very hard to sell at Valuation as well!
So bubble causing by NEWLY MOP /less than 10yrs old flats
U can check
How much 3rm Newly mop Flat in areas like Yishun punggol
Vs 20 yrs old 4rm flat!!
If got time plz do go through
U will.understand what i am saying
[11:33 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: There are also people sold their private or public properties as early as 8 years back.
Where they staying? They either RENTING condor or HDB in HOPE properties prices will soften.
Are these people displaced or sooner to be displaced due to higher prices?
Isnt it a Choice and view of tangibles of Micro and Macro economics ?
[11:35 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: We need from all levels not just top… if not then no point have HDB. The HDB is meant as a place for different class to mingle together. Hence the range of income so wide
[11:35 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: There is truth...
For leasehold properties, the shorter the remaining lease, the less attractive it will become.
It's about value and valuation.
[11:36 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: In most countries government housing are for the poor and the worst. In rare case like Singapore even the rich wants to stay in HDB
[11:36 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Hence the property is worth something… if no one wants it. We won’t have such issue.
[11:37 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Now we are complaining cause we cannot buy… but majority that holds it has no issue.
Cause the value grows your retirement is secured
[11:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: I would say with government grants most HDB are affordable just have to wait
[11:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Valua-able.
[11:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Bingo...
[11:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Bingos...
[11:38 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Push out all the buyers so we can afford then who buy when we want to sell ๐ซฃ
[11:40 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: G has the big data the analytics and scenarios play!
Today chat is to seek any good ideas and how's citizens feeling...
[11:41 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Supply demand are in government hands… which is a good thing. They can manipulate the market as they see fit for Singapore maximum gain.
[11:41 am, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Like US manipulate the currency.. ๐คญ
[11:42 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: " some places, when you got Money, you gets plenty of honey; some places when you got Money, you also gets whole lots of dirty...?"
- - annoymous
[11:44 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: More demand from S'poreans for co-living spaces as high property prices boost rental market
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/higher-demand-from-sporeans-for-co-living-spaces-as-rental-market-gets-boost-amid-high-property-prices
A shift in mindset in the local population towards renting compared with buying, and the time it takes for the young to attain home ownership due to increasing property prices, are some factors... that have propelled the increase," she said.
Those aged 29 to 34 yearn to have their own space away from their family home, and more young couples turn to co-living spaces before buying a flat
[11:47 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: So now is birthrate
[11:47 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: Good let me say this if i not wrong SG produce at least 1/6 of EM3 ppl
[11:47 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: during 1990s to 2002
[11:47 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: these ppl will only enter work force ard 27
[11:48 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: Then open door polciy in palce of couse cant find partner mah
[11:48 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: no good salary no good job 27 then finsihed uni
[11:48 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: If no open door policy then maybe still have a chance
[11:49 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: so arnt this a evilcycle ?
[11:49 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: of course you in turn produce more singles
[11:49 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Fact:
Early 1990,
AMK 5 rooms was $300k (leasehold)
Newton Apartment was $600k ( freehold)
What's today value for both properties?
[11:50 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: so populaion drop u need more FT than of course cycel renew
[11:50 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: the only one benefit is the rich and FT.
[11:50 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: cheaper labour
[11:53 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi KL,
In previous months, presented facts on declining birth rates'for developed countries.
Fact, Philippines is also facing declining birth rates (not ratio).
It was 6 birth per family, now 2 per family.
So how, importantly for SINGAPORE to secures our Nation's interest?
[11:54 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes
But how many Top level expats staying in hdbs๐
Anyway as i said
I care less abiut the rich and Ultra rich
I hv no time to plead them to buy this or do this
[11:54 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: "For the lifespan of human is like a leasehold property...?"
- - annoymous
[11:55 am, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: "ๅพ้ๅนดไบบ,ๅพๅคฉไธ!
Youth is the deciders of tomorrow!"
- - annoymous
[11:56 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Truth we all.know
I dont go into discussion about who actually own Hdb or what happens after 99
As When we buy we should know alrdy.
But stopping CPF usage (not fully ofcourse)
For HdbS just becz of old
I told that time itself
It will create more problems than solving ๐
[11:57 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: but why we have decline birthrate but need so many HDB ? Did any one think of that ?
[11:57 am, 05/10/2022] +KL: Our replacement is 1.2 as per some one say
[11:59 am, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Then Plublish better ma
Helpful for agents like me also๐
Publish like
Age of property
Price Trends
Demand trends
Buyers
Who are they
What race nationality n PR new citizen etc etc
In detailed
Not like Punggl ..ocr..incresed this much
Tpy decreased this much
No use one
[0:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi KL, Good Morning.
1.8 will be Great
[0:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: 1.2 is due to bad policy in last 2 decades
[0:05 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: but i think next to be hit will Mindef . cos it result in lower SG male produce. Where PR relucted to serve NS. That where the real issue lies in future
[0:06 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: plus singles may not bear arms.
[0:06 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: when country in need
[0:07 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: that why i alwasy say fairness and optimal is the key
[0:11 pm, 05/10/2022] +SL: This may result in the unit being sold below its total cost
[0:12 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Speculation… so they have to pay the price
[0:13 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: worse is developer collaspe
[0:13 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: then all project will GG. Not sure what will happen after that
[0:17 pm, 05/10/2022] +SL: Nominal rise of assets value due to price inflation required large enough buyer markets. The initial buyer turned seller anticipated others to be the last straw that broke the camel’s back.
[0:17 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: ๐คฆ๐ป♂️ just observed nothing much we can do. Government have to decide what to keep to maintain the system
[0:18 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Wait....
[0:18 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Using taxpayer money to save not fair wor
[0:19 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: alot of stuff is not fair :D
[0:19 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Housing problem is slightly fuelled by delays to construction to pandemic.
[0:19 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Better than collapse everyone no job or money to survive… only they know is it worth it
[0:20 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 1 October, 2022
"Opportunities & Benefits?"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jaydecheung/2022/09/29/billionaire-li-ka-shings-ck-asset-sells-hong-kong-properties-to-singapore-fund-for-265-billion/
Analysis & Commentary:
"CASH OR CASH FLOW IS KING! In an highly active inflationary period, Yield of fixed assets such as properties will be the 'safest haven' (short term to mid-term play) compared to more liquidable assets like cash or equities or bonds.
These three LIQUIDIZING variables would be the subject of the full blowing winds of devaluation and first to damage in this perfectly structured and interconnected economics storm, aka as Quantitative Tightenings (QT)!"
- - annoymous
Situations and the Dynamics of Migration of People & Money:
In last year (2021), one of these apartments was sold for HK$459 (HK$136k/ft).
What if today or tomorrow HK's property prices further slumped 20%? This example per sqft similarly discount to HK$108k/ft!.
What causes such drop in property prices?
Simply, for the past 12 months, more than two hundred thousands hongkongers have migrated elsewhere, to UK, to Canada, to USA, to Australia, to Thailand, to Malaysia and to Singapore!
So what's the next impacts to these migrant countries?
Currencies will strengthen so do all economic activities will also benefit from these NEW HOT MONIES!
So what's the future property prices for Singapore likely be?
If HK prices do slide which is highly probable to happen, perhaps Singapore current property prices are at MID-WAY point of an upward trajectory!
What's the outlooks like?
The raw prospective PSF for Prime residential areas will PEAK at S$8k/ft within the next 24 months (HK will be at S$20k or lesser). How about Malaysia or Thailand, these two Asian countries?
Afterword:
"When a family of high income or net worth migrates to a new country, first, they will buy their First home(s). Second, they will scan and evaluate for business opportunities or to replicate their core competencies into this new living environment aka new country of residency. Third, they will come out to participate in the economics of livelihoods or start a new business through acquisitions of local firms and fixed assets!
The key is NEW BUSINESS creations, you need physical presence and land to set the footings! The rest will be history in the making!
[0:20 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: not fair to poor ppl :D
[0:20 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: It is a eco system. Not this or that.. but all depends on each other
[0:20 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: If all become poor to climb back up even harder
[0:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Setting a price based on income Will gives more Good Results
Than setting peak prices.
As those can afford will benefit easily can pay the price
Again in the end those can not will not be able to!
[0:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: you should tell that to the poor :D
[0:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: You know which country want equality and the whole country suffer…
In the end lol… is it equal?
[0:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: The great leap ๐ซฃ
[0:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: So is it equal now?
[0:22 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: like i say optilmal is key
[0:22 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Often people point to 'outsiders' as the cause of problems for internal difficulties. Housing, Transports, Education and Health Care. We should not go down this route and create division in society. All contribute to the growth and economic welfare of the country. People who want to settle need a path, and PR is a good first step, let's not be unwelcoming.
[0:23 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Of course current citizens need to be protected and already have additional benefits and smoother path. That's good and important.
[0:23 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Housing shouldn't be treated like a commodity and rental prices should be managed.
[0:23 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes agree
But not the cost of losing own citizens!
[0:24 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Yes, 100%.
[0:24 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: ๐how to manage rentals
Its demand Vs supply
[0:25 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Frankly rental should not be control as we import far too many FT
[0:25 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: If the current 15 month waiting period is temporary move
They should hv done the same to PRs.
Stop them.buying for now
Not saying for ever
Untill stabilization happens
N make them sell back to HDB only
[0:28 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Shouldn't be like that because people are being forced out of their homes. We regulate other industries, why not rental?
[0:29 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Yes, sell back to HDB makes sense
[0:29 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: ๐ I guess before that Govt Should stop racial seggregatioms in private properties
[0:29 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: 15 month for PR also makes sense, should be same rules for everyone.
[0:30 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: No need To as Its income generated and spend in singapore
Those owners getting supet high rentals
Make them.pay more property tax
[0:30 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: ๐it is same for everyone
PRs need to wait 3 yre before they buy HDB
[0:31 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I Am saying now We are seeing low supply
High prices
So need to stop.them buying for now
As Stopping A citizen who owns a condos n sold a condo
[0:31 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Yes, that's an option. Something to avoid exploitation. People have to live somewhere. We don't want to uproot families because Landlords want to lock people in for 2 year contract when the market spikes.
[0:32 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: got it ok - what was the reference to this: "If the current 15 month waiting period is temporary move
They should hv done the same to PRs."
[0:32 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Now It happens i feel
Happens for Citizens
If expats unable to pay high rentals and unable to afford
They move back!
[0:33 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I am saying
Stop PRs buying HDB
Even though They are in3 yrs category
[0:33 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: btw why all issue seem to link back to PR and FT ? So weird.
[0:33 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Meaning for now ban PRs buying resale hdb
Ban them.selling in Open market
Simple and will be more effective
For controlling prices
[0:34 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Not all
Just This New measure๐
[0:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: PRs pay more School.fee now
Many thing Govt changed for PRs compare to last time,
Still many people applying PRs
So when comes to housing
Focus on citizens
Especially low and middle income families๐๐ฝ
Thatd my conclusion
[0:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Err this was set from day one to ensure racial harmony ๐ฅ
[0:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: So no one race only block
[0:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: I do see the logic on PR having to sell back to HDB.
[0:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: No
For.private no such Thing even now
Any one can buy any where in private
[0:36 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Private you can buy where you like..
[0:36 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Yes, and makes sense, avoids SG becoming segregated into different regions. Private is only 20% of all housing, correct?
[0:36 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Err Singaporean is more than 90% in HDB
[0:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: OK, so no need to control private housing really.
[0:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Seems u might hv missed my main point
When Govt unable to Check whether PR having any property overseas (by rule if they have they can not buy hdb here)
So no point Giving advantage to them
Especially
In this Low supply time
[0:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: This is practice in some countries… can explore
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: If singaporean are main buyer and seller… the price majority is push up by locals then foreigners ๐
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: But Having only one race like 90% of one race one natiomality in private condos
Soon will create problems
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Small percentage of PR don’t really able to push up so much
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Ecosystem of Public Housings:
So how to equalise and make Singaporeans happier, these sensitive housing issues?
Subsidies from $100k to $250k across new or resale flats. From matured, non matured and near city flats, all will enjoy these spectrum of subsidies.
Are these enough or more the better? Is it doable, any unintended outcomes?
[0:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Just being realistic… why they can push so high… cause they earn decent and willing to buy at premium to get location they want
[0:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Can check, assuming they have a mortgage on the overseas property. They have to declare to the bank, or committing fraud, and banks can check easily.
[0:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: They can
If They only buying JUST MOP flats
Thats why i suggest govt to release data๐
[0:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: I doubt so really
[0:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes
[0:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Or maybe have a longer MOP for PR?
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: But selling back to HDB was options for other race which unable to hit target price due to the race restrictions
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Or sometimes the HDB too old to sell more than 40 years old
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I have not read any news before the HDB caught PR false declaration
So i doubt they check
And bank checkswhats the use
Its the HDB need to ๐
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: MOP is good for stabilising the market
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Will not solve problem
[0:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: I really think should keep
[0:41 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: Atleast some time for government to react
[0:41 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Focus is solving the problem
No lt creating the problem to PRs or FTs
I guess govt also dont want that
[0:41 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Increasing MOP will in the end makes even low supply
[0:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: They already have changes that effect immediately so that prevent people from playing the market.. which is quite painful for some that are considering in between policies ๐
[0:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: How to solve, supply and demand?
[0:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: So like i said
Increase hefty stamp fee
For Less than 10yr old flats
This group
Will hv less money to pay COVs for these flats
Prices will control
[0:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Ken Loh: They can adjust based on the needs..
[0:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: This is the best
After i think so much
Its a win win situatiom
[0:43 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Good idea, stamp fees...
[0:43 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes
[0:44 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Seniors waived the stamp fees?
[0:44 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: That way
Those who can afford amd want new flats they buy those paying extra
The old flats Now so many
So will increase demand
[0:44 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Nope
[0:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Down size?
[0:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: No need to
Unless buy 2rm or studio
Frm HDBs
[0:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +SL: If reading the real estate market news outside in America, the UK, Taiwan, China, etc., precautionary steps taken by govt reduce some risk
[0:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Downsize why need to pay less if tjey got money
Can.not be based on that
[0:48 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Using tax to solve...
[0:48 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: This is the best i can think to Stop bubble formartion
Now or even later
Limiting buyers
So Prices will stabilise
[0:49 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes but penalising only the People who got CASH to pay Covs to sellers
Not like the poor or middle class
They anyway can not compete the rates of this Newly Mop flats
[0:51 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: How much tax to apply %?
How the effects of ABST? Any lessons learned so far?
[0:53 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: How much i can not say
But A 4rm just MOP flats Easily getting 40k plus Cov
Which is going to Sellers pocket!
[0:53 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I am saying Average some even got 100k cov also
[0:54 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Actually the main cause is our normal wage cant afford a HDB now as per they said BTO prices is derive from Resale flats ( i wonder how bukit brown they going to price from Gaveyard ) . Thus mean resale and BTO may no longer afford by locals. In 2010 i remember my manger from Malaysian PR buy a HDB with her slibling and rent out underhand at tiong bahru (( iknow now is banned ) . Open door policy causing our wage to be abnormal due to influx of FT / workers.
[0:54 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Capital gains, capitalism in play or OVERLY played?
[0:54 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Even now PRs who left the country still Renting out, lock one room and rent policy.. many agents still do this๐คฆ๐ฝ♀️
[0:55 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Per head can be $750
[0:55 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Yes
[0:56 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: they got a green card in USA
[0:57 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: No point discuss or discourage Capital gains As u said most HDB owners Are singaporeans
Aim is To Dissolve the Bubble
To make the prices affordable
To Make sure PRs follow rules of HDB strictly and make them understand HDB is not for them to Buy now and Sell at high price
Make profit and go back!
[0:57 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes i know
[0:57 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Now Govt Not renewing PRs if they dont live here anymore
[0:57 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: they come back once a years
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: But those who alrdy bought
Still renting out
Atleast till their PR renewal comes
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: ya a loop hole
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Now Not easy anymore
They must work here at least 2 yrs
To get PR renewed for 5 yrs
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: are u sure
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +SL: ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: I know of a person got PR working in sg only before cocid
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: she cant even speak english
[0:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes
[0:59 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: she can write thou lol
[1:00 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: she bring in 3 slibling
[1:00 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Assuming $100k of COV.
First happiness for taxmen say, 20% stamp fees from this declared COV.
Next comes circumventing, under declaring by half or more than half of C actual COV.
So the seller-buyer agreed to settle at $50k in cash and the other $50k to declare ( tax collected $10k).
Will the above happen or will never happen?
[1:01 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I guess Should not be based on COV
Should target so called new flats
As this is what causong bubble price
[1:01 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi KL,
Any Chances you know why such things happened?
Anyways to mend it?
Pls share, thanks!
[1:01 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes If based on Cov
What u said Might happen
[1:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: MONEY happens to make people turning to do all sorts of monkey business just to avoid being tax!
[1:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: So just Say
Extra 5% Stamp fee
Along with current taxes when buying less than 10 yrs olr HDB
Simple
[1:03 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: If u go dating events a lot of non local
[1:03 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: u will heard alot of these
[1:03 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yeah
[1:03 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 5% not strong to cool (push) prices!
[1:03 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: ask sg sent ppl to infrate in and check .o need me to teach u all right . drawing 1 millions salaries should know these .
[1:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Utter madness for government to keep saying public housing will be kept affordable!
[1:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Take reference from ABST model..
What's the +/- learned and how to apply it to HDB issues?
[1:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: It will be total 8% for citizens
Total 13% for PRs
[1:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 10% vs 20%
[1:06 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Yes or better to implement
Like 20% if its just MOP
Based on flat aging
Then lower bit by bit
[1:07 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: This will deffintaly
Deter people who think HDB Or Bto is Money making Items
Especially in short term
[1:07 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: I sincerely hope
Reach will bring this GOVT๐
[1:12 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: The same should apply to EC as well
[2:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: Agree ... My sentiments too.
[2:27 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: Agree. As ther r not enuff BTO's to go ard, and also the wait may be too long, young couples, esp w limited financial resources, and aspiring to own their first flat, should have an abundance of choice fr the Resale market since the no. of BTO's is limited. Gov shd know since the stats always show >2 or even >10 times over subscribed for BTO appns every time!
[2:29 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: Abt time for HDB to wake up & pay attn to the citizens.
I feel the addl new measures are NOT helping citizens, but setting them back even further from owning their first flat.
Similarly, the same gov subsidies shd also apply for first-timers if they buy their first Resale flat , becoz they r driven to do so due to lack of supply of BTO flats, esp in the location / estate of their choice.
[2:32 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: I notice tt most BTO's r being built in North , West & now near Central.
I live in the East & ther r only 1-2 BTO projects in this area but demand far out strips supply here!
My son has still not bn able to get a flat after trying out for past 2 years.
[2:34 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: The revision to LTV limit shd NOT apply for first timers.
Esp if they r new on the job market and hv not yet had enuff time to build their finances.
[2:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Why not now fresh grad earn much more than old bird wor
[2:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Tiagong is 5K
[2:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: even citi 2014 new ppl got 3.3K but old ppl remain 2.8K
[2:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: dont be greedy la give some hope to poor ppl ba
[2:39 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: u build finance we need money to eat hahaha and give parents wor
[2:43 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: like i say it he fairness comparing past to present
[2:43 pm, 05/10/2022] +65 80321288: There should be zero tolerance on drugs, including cannabis. The difference between cigarettes and cannabis is that people smoking cigarettes don't get high and don't hallucinate. They don't go around harming themselves physically or harming others physically. Cannabis smokers get high and hallucinate. That's the difference. Alcohol, to a certain extend, causes drunked behavior which sometimes can also cause harm to oneself and others. This is why alcohol consumption has been restricted in terms of time and place of consumption.
[2:50 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: The effects of the new measures wl Only Affect those who Need the flats More!
Not those who alredi hv the means wl not feel the pinch after a while. It's only a ripple in the ocean for this group of ppl, which the new measures r targetted at.
[2:50 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: I dont own a flat wor :C
[2:54 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: In short, Min. Desmond Lee, I think u shd look at the supply & Affordability factors of Resale flats for first timers, esp those who hv bn in the queue for very long but were not able to get the unit of their choice.
Suggest tt
1. ther be an option of choice for this group to select within the estate tt they want ... Since ther is no BTO avail in tt loc.
2. Also, limit the sale price of the Resale flats to make it affordable for first timers.
3. LTV of 85 cap to remain for first timers.
[2:56 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 5 October, 2022
"Enable, Affordable or Unaffordable"
"+-x/, these variables to make ends meet?"
- - annoymous
How to enable our young generation?
First Timers:
Heavier subsidies ($) for First time owner whether is new or resale.
Fixed interest rates ($) say @3%. Defer payment meaning up to 12 months before instalment kicks into effect before collection of keys or better still after collection of keys.
Set a lower minimum salary ($) for sole or combined. Also lower the minimum age to 30 years old for singles to own their first homes.
These enablers are limited to 4 bedrooms flat and below, applicable to all areas, new or resale.
What's the equation and model?
Privileges & Entitlements (P&E):
Are there any 'common grounds' regardless of citizen o…
[3:00 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: So late than change :C
[3:08 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: https://www.who.int/teams/mental-health-and-substance-use/alcohol-drugs-and-addictive-behaviours/drugs-psychoactive/cannabis#:~:text=About%20147%20million%20people%2C%202.5,than%20cocaine%20and%20opiate%20abuse.
[3:08 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: Agree.
As a temp measure, to create more supply , esp for first timers who were unsuccessful in their BTO appns.
[3:09 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: 147 million people in the world estimated to use Cannabis, 2.5% of the world's population. I'm against it being freely available, same as cigarettes or alcohol. I have read there are health benefits if administered properly by medical experts.
[3:11 pm, 05/10/2022] +L or BL: Yes, this is the irony...
[3:12 pm, 05/10/2022] +RH: Becoz everyone can see the effects of the new measures wl hurt / affect citizens more than the target of these measures....
Def not well thought thru or wrong perspective taken by policy makers.
[3:16 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: the new measure trying to glue the issue in the past . So the current measure is correct but too late liao.
[3:17 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: A doctor tell u got fever give u panadol never check and fever continue till u become brain damaged . They forgot pill need 2 hours to start. effect. same as polices
[3:18 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: optimal is impoartant .
[3:21 pm, 05/10/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: I don’t think lowering the LTV ratio for first time buyers makes sense and especially if the govt is telling us that most first time buyers can pay for the loans with their CPF contributions. The lower LTV just makes it harder to finance the first flat - does it really cool the market? The problem I see is that there is a supply demand problem and that is one of the reasons prices go higher - plus the covid situation and it’s impact on housing and on project completion/ Solution: build more flats and make it difficult for speculators. Another challenge with affordability is that interest rates may have bottomed out and even though HDB has said they won’t change them for now, over time higher inflation will make rates go up and housing will become less afford…
[3:33 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
What are your thoughts on Singapore’s public housing affordability?
1. a. For non-mature estates - I think the price around :-
$245,000 to $317,000 (3-room)
$374,000 to $460,000 (4-room)
$493,000 to $581,000 (5-room)
though on the high side - is still affordable -- though barely make it - if both young couples got a job.
Assuming without grant buying a 5 room flat (as my kid need a bigger space to work and raise 2 children), borrow a loan from HDB/CPF at 2.6% for 20 years - the young couple will need to pay $2,483 a month ---- from the HDB/CPF.
So for a 4 person family, assuming $2,000 a person is needed for monthly expenses and some savings ----- a household income of $10,483 per month - then can afford to pay the for the 5 room flat.
For a fresh graduate couple just starting out on a career is a tough call - barely manageable.
b. But for non-mature estate - as far as Tengah, it is very convenient for the young couple to drop their children to their parents like us staying in mature estates, somewhere around central, north east - to take care of the grandchildren and the 2 couples go to work and then take back the children.
It will wear the young couples down.
2. So unless the young couples are able to get a flat near their parents like in central or north east - let us check the price in the mature estate :-
Eg. the recent new BTO flats in Ang Mo Kio is price at :-
4-room flat $535,000 to $676,000
5-room flat $720,000 to $877,000
--- the young couple will need to pay $3,749 a month ---- to the HDB/CPF. loan.
So the household income of young couple need to have $11,749 per month --- which is way beyond the young couple ability to sustain their lives and finance the house.
3. Hence, a price somewhere around the suburban estate - as illustrated in the above example - will still be barely affordable for my kid family.
But the price for the mature estate is not affordable.
[3:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Danni, thanks for the breakdown of $...
One key enabler (affordability) is CPF contributions that relieve quite substantially the monthly installments.
In short, continuous employment will help many to afford their homes.
[3:36 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Affordable housing has gone out the window long ago!
[3:37 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Next is to buy what one's need than what one's want... that's another affordable!
[3:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Or take over parents flat and wait for sers/enbloc!
[3:41 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
If HDB make the mature estate prices equivalent to non-mature estate prices - then I will say the young couples can barely managed to afford it.
I will applaud HDB policy.
[3:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew, a common Streets sentiment, not totally wrong to say so...
However, if say one young aspiring single or married couple wants a 4 rm or EC. They will have to count their monies and jobs before these wants override the realistic needs.
Hope or hoping to upgrade to an EC or Condor. We assume that it is a COMMON aspiration for many citizens.
So how can we fullfill these good aspiration of upgrading one's living space?
Again this family or individual will have to weigh and balance the current finances and going into the future, isn't it called 'can afford or wait awhile lah'?
The key is opportunities will always be there for people to turn into Reality. In these stations of life, there will be up and down. Importantly, never says never. Have a po…
[3:48 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: Than I unlucky lor
[3:48 pm, 05/10/2022] +KL: :C
[3:50 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Increase subsidies for our young first time owners, one meaningful headstart for them.
"Before us, today and ours tomorrow ๅๆตชๆจๅๆตช"
[3:51 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Emeritus SM GCT mentioned during his term as PM, young couple simply buy a maisonette or executive flat without doing their homework. They should be practical and buy a three room flat first and then progressively upgrade over time.
[3:51 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Feeling dire is more like than hope!
[3:52 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Thank you, Andrew for your Great memories!
That's where the words "upgraders" derived, isn't it, Andrew? Thank you!
(recalling memories and 2 brains better than one...cheers!)
[3:56 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Andrew...
The opposite of dire is HOPE!
IMPORTANT TO HAVE HOPES (aspirations).
By the way, there will always be that naughty disruptor that stir folks up, aka negatives and mind blocking thingies...
[3:57 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Unfortunately, we have covid-19 to thank for dire!
[4:00 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: We can also see Covid as a history and lessons for all of us to learn.
So what we learned?
A naughty disruptor (ND)of jobs and lives (or death).
To take this ND and flip it to be another ND, this case is called Non Disruptor!
Can we see it through and through or mind blocked?
[4:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: You can be 20s or 50s or 70s.... let not this naughty Disruptor rob us of all hopes!
Put that dire straight away!
[4:04 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Be brave! Let us stand up as ONE SOLID TREE, ... SIMPLY for all humanly created challenges can be solved!
Find solutions... sure ok!
[4:15 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: The problem
Now I am saying The Non mature estate 3rm resale going for 400k
So jusf matter of timethe bTo will follow suitem
Plz look at the Resale transactio prices especially the Just Mop ones in Non mature estate like Pungl canberra etc
[4:17 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: So focus and tackle where the problem actually starting!!
Otherwise even more harder days ahead for Singaporeans!!
[4:22 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Do you think the latest measures and forms of support are sufficient to ensure affordable public housing for the masses?
1. I feel that pushing out policy to cool the resale flats and private houses - it will have a knock-on effects on new BTO flats - not only in the mature estates but also the non-mature estates.
2. I think for the prices of the overall HDB flats - whether for new BTO or resale flats in both mature and non-mature estates ---- we will need some time to see the effects.
The price won't come down immediately - like a switch "on/off".
Hence to see if the recent cooling measures if effective or not - will have to wait a few months to see the effects.
3. But looking at the measures objectively :-
a. 15 months wait for private dwellers who sell their flats before can buy HDB resale flat (instead of 6 months) --- will make downgraders less enticing and more inconvenience to downgrade as they need to find interim accomodation.
So even though downgraders can pay cash to foot the entire flat without the need to borrow loan to buy flat - it will make downgraders think twice to downgrade - because of the inconvenience to find interim accomodation.
This will squeeze demand for resale flats - and will likely to bring down resale flat prices.
b. Lowering the loan quantum from 85% to 80% will only make the group - those downgraders who are short of cash (as the sales are meant to finance their business or pay debts) - less affordable to buy resale flat.
This will also help to squeeze demand for resale flats and lower prices for resale flats - due to lower demand.
c. As both measures have the effect of dampening demand for prices of resale flats, it will in the medium term bring down the high resale flat prices.
As resale HDB prices have a knock on effect on new BTO flat prices and private houses - it will also likely to bring down the prices of new BTO flat prices in mature and non-mature estates as well as the private houses.
d. So in medium term, I feel that the cooling measures are likely to bring down the high prices in both new BTO flats, resale flats and private houses.
But not so sure about the prices of GCB, and premium private condos --- whereby ultra-rich foreigners demand for such private houses are still going strong. These market will probably not affected by the above 2 measures - as price are quite inelastic for these property categories - due to the strong buying power of the ultra-rich foreigners.
[4:24 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: 5 October, 2022
" What so great about that Hope?"
Hopes:
Hope is a powerful paradigm shifter of life! With hopes, it can uplift us or do the impossibles or show us the little light during dire times. This HOPE (invincible thingie) can come in many shapes and forms. It can be listening to favorite oldies music or a good nite out with loved ones or even a simple short family vacations (Cruise to nowhere) will ignite all hopes that is worth more than Money could afford to buy it, is true!
Can we see is not always be bothered by this naughty money (NM), though today's topic is about buying a home and the realities of living in Singapore!
MONEY can become non-meaningful (NM) especially in situations like overly indulged in it or the end of one's life.
So M…
[4:26 pm, 05/10/2022] +Suma pamu: Quite in terms with Govt is saying
But lets see๐
They closed one channel forgot that there are many reasons apart from down graders LOL
[4:33 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Short of money?
Children grown up and doesn't wish to stay with parents?
Passing on of one's spouse?
Need to survive into old age?
Are these probable and common reasons to "down size" one's living space?
[4:34 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Covid-19 is definitely a game changer!
[4:34 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Another important measures, to build 100,000 new BTO flats - in anticipation of demand - will definitely bring the HDB flats price down to affordable level.
But it di come with a financial risk to government - and whether it will be overbuilt?
I feel that more such new flats should be build in mature estates - as young couples want to live near their parents - not far away in the suburban areas.
Also soon lands from suburbs areas will be used up.
Mature estates lease will soon expire - isn't it the right time to make the new BTO flats in mature estates affordable (equivalent price like non-mature estates).
Not wise to push all the young couples to non-mature estates.
See sengkang all young couples - become rebellious.
Surely not wise isn't it?
If mixed young couples with their parents in mature estates - isn't it wiser?
[4:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Or down size to monetize and pass on to children to buy their First homes?
This is the most admirable deed!
[4:36 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: The thing is we will never know the actual land cost when factor in subsidies. Only then, a clear picture of prices will be given.
[4:38 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Let the government work out the land prices, resale values, grants, subsidies etc.
As long as supply exceed demand - in economic, prices will come down and correct itself.
[4:38 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew,
Maybe can "peep" into the immediate past land sales for EC or Condor (vicinity specific) as an indicator of opportunity cost?
[4:40 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Is the data there from valid government records!?
[4:41 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Some countries let Private builders to build mass housing projects (meaning volume builders). While the policymakers got 'fishing'?
So what happened say for a window period of one decade, that's enough to cause social chaos and a big displacement of affordable housing needs!
[4:42 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Yes
[4:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Let those whom are keen to learn, to research land prices and land bank...be specific on vicinity and quantify a time line.
We are not interested in land price appreciation. What the research should focus on utility and vicinity and developments as an Ecosystem, this case public housing vs Private housing...
Does it sound ok? Or some more variables missing in this equation?
Thanks Andrew for digging one's brain...lol!
[4:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Most welcome ๐๐๐๐๐คท♂️
[4:46 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: "Is never a gentleman or a gentle lady to compare apple with apricot...?"
- - annoymous
[4:47 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Need your wip to unlease those Rusty brain cells, aka recalling things....lol
[4:49 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: "Importantly, Our SINGAPORE national interests MUST be protected'...."
- - annoymous
[4:50 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Definitely
[4:53 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: No country = No home = No hope
[4:53 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Touche!
[4:56 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: In difficult times, or challenging moments, use the reversal theory of KEEPING things SIMPLER so much so it can be seen clearly and the possible ways to handle each obstacle...
Apply this to anything from tangibles to intangibles!
Key is CALM AND CLEAR!
BTW, OOP, SMALL BITES ALWAYS WIN!
[4:56 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Agree
[4:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Hope all of us inclusively our key policymakers will exercise these simple pointers...even with adversaries...
Forward or reverse...
That's yin and yang in motion?
"Don't use eggs and slam the concrete wall!"
[4:59 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: A buffer is required in between
[5:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: What's a buffer?
[5:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Something to cushion sudden fluctuations
[5:08 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Past Experienced?
[5:11 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Yes
[5:13 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
This is known as the ripple effect.
As we push young couples out to the fringe, soon the fringe will be used up, and need to come back to build in the mature estates and make it affordable.
[5:22 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: One concern (though not fear) is what's the unintended consequences or never thought it would happen otherwise a meaningful outcome!
[5:23 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Plus frequency (occurance) and amplitude (Hi-Lo range)
[5:26 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: To avoid big ripple... avoid throwing a big stone into the pond (what's the depth of this pond?)
Scatter with sand across the ponding water (assuming the shallowness of this water basin?)
A good metaphor, Danni!
[5:35 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Just in time = Pull strategy
Just in case = Push strategy
Hope is useful in workplace?
[5:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: "The many problems with aging (80 yrs and above) is determined by habits formed prior to age 50 than heredity itself..."
- - George E. Vaillant
Prof of Psychiatry @ Harvard Medical School
[6:02 pm, 05/10/2022] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
Minister Desmond Lee, in Parliament on Oct 4, said that the Government will intervene and do what is "necessary" to ensure affordable public housing for Singaporeans as well as a stable property market. He added that keeping public housing accessible is a "key national priority" and provides the basic foundation to raise families, bring up children and build strong communities.
He elaborated on the rationale for the latest slew of measures announced on Sept 30 to moderate demand in the HDB resale market. He said these were meant to ensure HDB flats remain affordable and to encourage prudent borrowing amid the rising interest rate environment.
๐ฌ What are your thoughts on Singapore’s public housing affordability? Do you think the latest measure…
[6:10 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-records-6888-new-local-covid-19-cases
Singapore records 6,888 new Covid-19 cases.
[6:13 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: Agree
[6:18 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: Prof George is a Distinguished fellow, including the studies of heroine effects on brain...
[6:20 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: A necessary natural path of this pathogen (covid) to endemic.
COVID, influenza, ordinary flu and 20 others are in circulations globally now...
[6:34 pm, 05/10/2022] +JC: Good policy. Thanks!
[6:45 pm, 05/10/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:58 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/qYN9UpGKnDQ
Our Distinguished Dr Liu Thai Ker, Former Chief of URA, watch his presentation 20.49 min....
[6:58 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Also should HDB allow people who borrow from banks, regretted and want to borrow from HDB/CPF -- to allow to borrow from HDB/CPF.
[6:59 pm, 05/10/2022] +Rama: No
[6:59 pm, 05/10/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/41VJudBdYXY
[7:00 pm, 05/10/2022] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Why not?
[7:00 pm, 05/10/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
====
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