REACH 309 - Have you registered your child for vaccination? If not, why? How can we encourage more parents to get their child vaccinated, as the Government continues to push on with efforts to maintain the safety of the community against COVID-19? (SK)
14 Jan 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
[10:00 am, 14/01/2022] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
There are currently no plans to introduce vaccination-differentiated measures for children aged 12 and below, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Monday (Jan 10). This means children will be able to enter schools and public areas no matter their inoculation status.
"Children are less likely to develop severe illnesses when infected, and we want to preserve, as much as possible, universal access to holistic education for children," the minister said, explaining the decision in Parliament.
π¬ Have you registered your child for vaccination? If not, why? How can we encourage more parents to get their child vaccinated, as the Government continues to push on with efforts to maintain the safety of the community against COVID-19?
Dr Janil said the Ministry of Health (MOH) has not received any report of "serious adverse events or myocarditis from vaccination in children in Singapore" as at last Friday. MOH will continue to monitor the vaccination exercise closely, he added. He also gave the assurance that all 15 designated paediatric vaccination centres are equipped with monitoring and resuscitation equipment, and the medical personnel are trained to manage any on-site emergencies arising from allergic reactions.
Education Minister Chan Chun Sing said on Tuesday (Jan 11) that about 80,000, or more than one in three pupils in the Primary 1 to 6 cohorts, have received their first dose of the vaccine. The Ministry of Education (MOE) said on Wednesday that around 3,900 children aged six to 11 in special education (Sped) schools have been invited to get their Covid-19 jabs, and more than six in 10 have signed up to do so.
The extension of the national vaccination programme to children aged five and above will cover about 300,000 children, who make up the largest unvaccinated group in Singapore. The Pfizer-BioNTech/Comirnaty Covid-19 vaccine is the only shot currently approved for children aged five to 11 in Singapore.
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/no-plans-to-introduce-vaccination-differentiated-measures-for-kids-aged-12-and-below
ππΌ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-medical-bills-children-covered-government-vaccination-status-ong-ye-kung-2424876
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/15540-children-aged-below-12-had-covid-19-in-spore-in-2021
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/more-than-6-in-10-eligible-pupils-in-special-education-schools-sign-up-for-covid-19-vaccination
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/6-in-10-primary-school-pupils-signed-up-for-covid-19-vaccination-chan-chun-sing
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[11:00 am, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors
We’d love to hear more from you on today's topic π
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan
[11:21 am, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/7fRVt59EPsQ
Fake or true?
Right or wrong?
[11:22 am, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/X4AtqICaos4
[11:23 am, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/9FNVzGOdDD8
True or fake?
Wrong or right?
[11:37 am, 14/01/2022] +Timothy Low: I don’t have any children so hard to comment, but since there is no differentiation on children under 12 then there isn’t much incentive to get vaccinated
[11:38 am, 14/01/2022] +Eunice Chia: the biggest incentive for a parent to have our children vaccinated is to alleviate the symptoms of Covid -- like why we get our children vaccinated against Chicken pox.
[11:50 am, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/almost-all-teens-needing-icu-care-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated-us-study
Almost all teens needing ICU care for Covid-19 are unvaccinated: US study.
[11:50 am, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/omicron-dangerous-especially-for-unvaccinated-who
Omicron 'dangerous', especially for unvaccinated: WHO.
[11:52 am, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. It is unprotected body against the virus.
2. As it has proven the vaccination is safe and effective to protect children against the covid, getting the children vaccinated is the best protection for them.
[0:02 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
3. Covid function to infect cells, and inflame multiple vital organs like lungs, heart, brains etc even though it can be mild resulting in long covid.
4. Why pass off the chance to protect our children from this dangerous virus - when there are vaccination to protect them.
5. Majority of our population and world advanced countries have taken vaccination - demonstrating vaccination is the best and safe approach to protect humanity against covid.
6. Why should we deprive our chance to protect our children - who have longer runway than adults?
[0:42 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Whilst I agree with no differentiated measures, will kids soon be able to play sports in groups of more than 5? If not, because of non vax kids, that would be very disappointing and I'd push for allowing vaccinated kids to do so.
[0:43 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Apart from not getting ill from Covid I suppose π
[0:43 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Yes, exactly
[0:44 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Are we having the 'to vax or not to vax' debate again?
[0:44 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: π€
[0:46 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/12/limits-imposed-on-manila-public-transport
[1:00 pm, 14/01/2022] +Timothy Low: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59960689.amp
Come come. Let’s introduce covid tax for those unvaccinated
[1:18 pm, 14/01/2022] +Dan: Dear Reach,
in the recent phishing scams involving OCBC, we should start to brainstorm and tighten the processes to safeguard people's hard earned savings.
Currently, such scams are so sophisticated that even a bank employee fell for the scam.
MAS should have a set of updated guidelines so as to safeguard the interest of Singaporeans to protect their savings.
Apps like SG Secure can be expanded to include all 6 areas of Total Defence and make it a nation- wide app to keep themselves updated of local news, such as banking scams or fire hazard.
[1:29 pm, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributor,
Thank you for your feedback.
We are actively listening. Please be assured that we will help to bring your feedback to the attention of the relevant agencies.
Warm Regards
Megan
[1:31 pm, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors
We’d love to hear more from you on today's topic π
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan
[1:32 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Can private companies impose different regulations on vac and unvax kids? For example a cinema.
[1:35 pm, 14/01/2022] +Vivian: Since there is no serious complications. Don't force it. Parents should be responsible for their children health. If they feel that it is good for their children to take the vaccine then it's the parents call to have their children vaccinated.
[1:36 pm, 14/01/2022] +Vivian: If there is anything wrong, the parents will only find blame...
[1:42 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
960 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore; 549 Omicron infections confirmed. It will threaten and breaching the 1,000 target soon. Unvaccinated will be particularly vulnerable. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/moh-covid-19-cases-jan-13-2432946
[1:43 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: True, but we don't do that with many other vaccines.. it's mandated
[1:44 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: The message here is the Vax doesn't prevent infection, it does prevent illness and reduces spreading.
[1:45 pm, 14/01/2022] +Rama: Yes
[1:46 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
COVID-19 can trigger self-attacking antibodies, even in mild or asymptomatic cases - resulting in Long Covid. The findings are published in the Journal of Translational Medicine. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-12-covid-trigger-self-attacking-antibodies-mild.html
[1:47 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Many With Mild COVID-19 Infections Experience Long-Term Symptoms
Data from a University of Arizona Health Sciences longitudinal study on COVID-19 shows that 67% of people with mild or moderate COVID-19 infection develop long COVID, with symptoms that last more than 30 days after a positive test. https://news.arizona.edu/story/many-mild-covid-19-infections-experience-long-term-symptoms
[1:50 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
If people mistakenly think that mild or asymptomatic infection from covid has no serious consequences - medical study shows otherwise.
More than 67% of people with mild, asymptomatic or moderate symptoms develop long covid - that damage the vital organs of the infected.
Children with longer runway will have permanent scarring of their health when they grow in ages.
[1:55 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: This is a highly flawed study and you are drawing the wrong conclusions because u r unaware of the inherent bias in the research study.
[1:57 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Even Mild COVID Can Leave 'Long-Haul' Illness. In fact, there can be lasting problems, Ostrosky said, -- including damage to the heart or kidneys, abnormal lung function and psychiatric symptoms, such as depression. Some recent studies estimate that 10% of COVID-19 patients become long haulers, complaining of stubborn problems like fatigue, insomnia, shortness of breath and "brain fog" (problems with memory, focus and other mental skills). https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210111/even-mild-cases-of-covid-can-leave-long-haul-illness-study-shows#1 Long covid can not only trigger long haul physical health but also mental health. Children needs to be protected against such damaging consequences of long covid.
[1:58 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: If u like, u can send e same list of 20+ generic symptoms to people who just got vaccinated and ask them at regular juncture whether they experience ANY of these symptoms without validating if those symptoms r directly linked to covid. Do that for 30 days, 60 days. U will get a nice % too.
[2:01 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Anyone interested can type mild Covid can trigger long covid? There are tons of medical study, mainstream news reports and credible medical article about this.
Even straits times also report this.
[2:02 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: 67%???
[2:02 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: Joke
[2:02 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19s-long-tail-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-happen Long covid - joke or no joke.
[2:02 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: Everyone also CAN drop dead tomorrow
[2:03 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: Possibility don't mean high risk.
[2:03 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: π€·♂️
[2:03 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
It could be a long road to recovery, even after patients get all-clear from Covid-19. Long covid - joke or no joke. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/it-could-be-a-long-road-to-recovery-even-after-patients-get-all-clear-from-covid-19
[2:04 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: Live in fear then. Vaccine at best protects u against severe disease and hospitalization. Barely protective against infection and mild disease. Esp omicron.
[2:05 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: Everyone will get covid at some point. most likely mild.
[2:06 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So the parents out there.
Weigh the consequences of your kids.
Choose to believe the medical experts advice and medical studies.
Or choose to believe in luck that your children immunity system is stronger than the covid.
Your children health and safety is the parents discretion or indiscretion.
[2:12 pm, 14/01/2022] +JC: This I agree. Don't just believe random headlines and web articles u see online.
Build up some knowledge on how to understand research and read up the source research articles with a critical mind.
Plenty of bias reporting now in the media landscape.
[3:02 pm, 14/01/2022] +Angelica: Agree w this. Plus the currently side effects of the vaccine are not studied enough.
And with the vaccine booster shot window is too short. Not sustainable.
We are not allowing our bodies to build natural immunity at all.
[3:03 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Hi All, I would like to jump in and share my own experience.
Household member 1 - Under 65yo, no underlying illness, fully vaxxed + booster, PPM: CV19+. Currently still under IO. Symptoms: Very mild. So far, day 5 since testing PCR+ and symptoms are almost gone although ART still positive.
Household member 2 - Under 65yo, no underlying illness, fully vaxxed + booster, PPM: CV19+. Currently still under HRW. Symptoms: Very mild. So far, day 3 since testing ART+.
Household member 3 - Teenager, no underlying illness, fully vaxxed + Not time to take booster yet, PP: Under HRW. ART Negative as of this morning, but presenting mild symptoms - low grade fever, slightly high pulse rate, Oxygen Saturation level healthy. Most likely will test positive when we conduct ART test again later.
Household member 4 - Under 12, no underlying illness, scheduled for 1st vax, but unvaxxed yet: Under HRW. ART Negative as of this morning, but presenting worryhing symptoms - high grade/persistent fever, elevated/high pulse rate, Oxygen Saturation level healthy. Scheduled to see doctor in a while.
Household member 5 - Under 65yo, no underlying illness, fully vaxxed + booster last week, PPM: Currently still under HRW. Testing Negative so far. Not presenting any symptoms.
Household member 6 - Over 65yo, no underlying illness, fully vaxxed + booster last week, PPM: ART negative. Sent to alternative accomodation for safety. Daily ART testing. So far all Negative and no symptoms.
This is not a good sample size. Before we "tested" the vaccine against Covid, we were already firm believers that taking a chance with the vax is safer than taking a chance with CV. Now, we are even more convinced.
This version of the vax does not prevent you from catchinng CV, but it is probably more than a coincidence that our symptoms are all very very mild compared to our (too young to be) vaxxed family member.
[3:08 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/few-vaccinated-people-in-spore-infected-by-covid-19-develop-long-term-symptoms
Few vaccinated people in S'pore infected by Covid-19 develop long-term symptoms.
Majority of long covid happen in the unvaccinated.
[3:15 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/01/vaccination-reduces-risk-long-covid-even-when-people-are-infected-study/
Vaccination reduces risk of long Covid, even when people are infected, U.K. study indicates.
[3:17 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore study consistent with overseas study.
Vaccinated people less likely to succumb to long covid as opposed to the unvaccinated.
US long covid patients are so high - because of large number of minorities who are unvaccinated.
[3:19 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/11/covid-vaccine-programs-could-end-with-third-dose-israeli-doctor-says-.html
[3:20 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: πΊπΈ
70% double vaccinated
Booster%?
[3:37 pm, 14/01/2022] +BL: Actually the vaccine does exactly enable the body to build natural immunity. That's how the vaccine works. The body responds to the foreign cells (that are harmless) and attacks them.
[3:46 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: This is probably one of the most studied vaccines given that over 9.5 BILLION doses administered.
Every vaccine wanes over time. The main difference is how quickly. In the case of CV vax, we have the additional challenge of a fast mutating virus.
Yes we need to build T-cell response/immunity by encountering the virus. But doing so without any help (ie. unvaxxed) can be dangerous.
[3:48 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: The vaccine triggers B-cell response. This is a fast acting, general immune response. Think of it as a first responder.
Whereas T-cells are the Specialists. Higy effective. Takes longer to activate. Very specific to a particular strain/virus.
[3:48 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Higy Highly
[3:50 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Once you have seen a Specialist, your records are permanently in their system, so the next time you turn up, the response is quicker. That is how T-cells work.
[3:51 pm, 14/01/2022] +Angelica: Vaccination does help our body build immunity. But vaccine-induced immunity and natural one is not the same
[3:52 pm, 14/01/2022] +Angelica: yea but within same time period.
[3:53 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
If human natural immunity system can defeat all viruses and bacteria - then there is no need to have medicine and doctors.
Human will be immortal.
[3:54 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Many people will not have die from covid.
[4:00 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: That may be true. But it does not mean you should choose one at the exclusion of the other.
If you believe that the vax is not effective, then it makes no sense to think that it will interfere with your body’s natural response.
Conversely, if you think the vax interferes with your natural immune response, then aren’t you actually acknowledging that it works π€·♂️
[4:01 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: it’s like saying we can breath, so we shouldn’t use an oxygen tank/supplementation even at high altitudes where the air is thinner
[4:03 pm, 14/01/2022] +Angelica: I don’t think vax is unecessary however I believe that individuals are responsible for their own health. And also window for booster jabs are too short.
[4:05 pm, 14/01/2022] +Rama: Unvax puts stress on medical services and create inconvenience to themselves moving around in public. As for the window issue, I like to think it's being relooked to avoid killing off our own natural immune system.
[4:16 pm, 14/01/2022] +Thomas: Sorry to ask something aside. I like to check with the group here if you have experience this. We are with this electrical utility company ISwitch for our electrical consumption. The company recently close down and my company came under SP. Unfortunately, we found out that SP charges us for the electrical usage on the spot rate in the electrical market which came up to be 3 to 4 times more than before. I have contacted a electrical retail company like Tuas Power and was informed that they do not take in anymore commercial customer since last year October due to gas price fluctuation and they are unsure what rate to provide. Ask me to try again in April . The electrical bill is impacting the company in these time especially for SME. I understand that this is impacting the residential side also. This may get hot if it grows and more electrical utility company closes. The liberalisation of the electrical market is leaving a bad after taste. Can this message be send to relevant authority ?
[4:22 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Individuals should not be individualistic. This is a “community” and communicable disease. And it has been proven that unvaxxed persons are perfect reservoirs for virus mutations. It’s not a coincidence that low vax countries - South Africa, certain Latin American countries, India - see high incidence of variants of concern.
As for frequency of boosters, it has to do with the pace at which the virus mutates. It’s the same with the flu virus and the flu vaccine.
[4:49 pm, 14/01/2022] +ALEX: My kids are 7, 5 and 3. The two which are eligible are having their vaccine week after next.
Most of our friends have kids around the same age. All that I have spoken to are also vaccinating their under 12s.
[4:52 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Protecting the children is not only important for their individual family.
2. Children is also our precious national manpower resources and talent.
[5:03 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: There are a few other Energy Providers such as Geneco. Believe you would have been informed of iSwitch shutting down and also your account being transferred to SP Services by default. This would have been done with some time/buffer for you to source for another provider.
It was also all over the news and internet/social media etc etc.
[5:05 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: https://www.geneco.sg/business/electricity-plans/
[5:07 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/iswitch-sp-group-electricity-close-down-2243796
[5:21 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: If the energy market were not liberalized, consumers wouldn’t even have had the (up to) 6yrs where most enjoyed rates that were significantly cheaper than SP Services’ rates. For commercial customers, I believe this option was available even earlier.
It is unfortunate that many businesses like yours were caught off guard. Let’s also not forget that the energy resellers were similarly wrong footed .. and made insolvent.
[5:38 pm, 14/01/2022] +Boon: Dear REACH, I am pro safety for the society but wonder what’s the basis when the Health Minister said, “Children are less likely to develop severe illnesses when infected…”, when most were not been vaxxed before recent push. What is considered “severe”?
[5:41 pm, 14/01/2022] +Boon: To encourage parents, I would think that quantitative objective data can be persuasive
[5:46 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: Hong Kong airport bans transit passengers from 153 countries, including Singapore
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/hong-kong-airport-bans-transit-passengers-from-153-countries-including-singapore
[5:46 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: Only 112 out of 2,200 coffee shops and canteens allow groups of up to 5 to dine in
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/coffee-shops-put-off-by-high-cost-of-implementing-vaccination-checks-to-allow-5-diners-to-sit-together
[5:47 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: Thaipusam 2022: Devotees to be allowed to worship in groups of five, entry limited to vaccinated visitors
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/thaipusam-2022-devotees-to-be-allowed-to-worship-in-groups-of-five-entry-limited-to-vaccinated-visitors
[5:48 pm, 14/01/2022] +Smiley face: Philippines revises Covid-19 response amid biggest surge in cases
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/philippines-revises-covid-19-response-amid-biggest-surge-in-cases
[6:19 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Summary of what i mentioned earlier:
Within my household, currently 4 out of 5 tested CV+
Person 1: Adult <65, fully vaxxed, booster in December: ART +ve late last week. Symptoms very mild
Person 2: Adult <65, fully vaxxed, booster in December: ART +ve 3 days ago. Most likely caught from Person 1. Symptoms very mild
Person 3: Teen <18, fully vaxxed, last June: Most likely infected by person 2; ART +ve today. Moderate fever, general malaise, throat discomfort, dry cough
Person 4: Child <12, unvaxxed: ART +ve today. Most likely infected by person 2; High fever, High Pulse rate; general malaise, throat discomfort
Person 5: <65, fully vaxxed, booster last week: Not infected, daily ART -ve as of today. No early signs of infection.
So.. it seems (1) the antibodies from vax wanes over time (2) more antibodies (more recent vaxxed/boostered) milder symptoms (3) the person who is not infected so far, just had the booster shot ie. antibodies at highest level now (4) unvaxxed (under 12yo) presenting most severe symptoms.
[6:32 pm, 14/01/2022] +Boon: ππthis is great!
[6:36 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Just curious, is it Omicron or Delta?
[6:38 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: MOH does not tell us what variant it is, but my guess is that it’s Omicron.
Reason being that it seems to be very infectious. We all caught it one after another despite our best efforts to segregate and isolate. Also, none of us experienced loss of taste/smell which seemed to be quite common for Delta patients.
[6:39 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So even if it is Omicron, unvaccinated still more serious than the vaccinated.
[6:40 pm, 14/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Take care and recover well for your family.
[6:42 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Thanks ππ
[6:45 pm, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:56 pm, 14/01/2022] +Boon: Stay safe!
[7:04 pm, 14/01/2022] +Joseph: Thanks ππ
[7:05 pm, 14/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
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