REACH 314 - What are your views on the new guidelines on a disposable carrier bag charge, which are part of efforts to cut waste generated in Singapore? (SK)
28 Jan 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:49 am, 28/01/2022] +REACH: Dear contributors,
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[10:05 am, 28/01/2022] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
NEA is seeking feedback on new guidelines on a disposable carrier bag charge, which are part of governmental recommendations to cut waste generated in Singapore. The guidelines are intended to discourage the excessive consumption of disposable bags and promote the use of reusable ones.
The majority of supermarkets here are expected to implement this charge in their stores. The charge will not apply for online purchases. Under the guidelines, supermarkets will also need to disclose the number of bags issued, the total amount charged for them and how they use the proceeds.
π¬ What are your views on the new guidelines on a disposable carrier bag charge, which are part of efforts to cut waste generated in Singapore?
The NEA crafted the guidelines after consultation with over 1,000 stakeholders on various platforms and through focus group discussions, as well as looking at case studies from abroad.
Public feedback on the new guidelines are now being sought on the following topics:
▶️ Who will be charged?
All in-store shoppers who choose to take disposable bags at supermarkets.
▶️ How much will it cost?
Supermarkets will set a minimum charge of five to 10 cents for a bag.
▶️ Which supermarkets will charge consumers?
The majority of supermarkets in Singapore. An annual revenue threshold will be set for stores that have to impose the charge.
▶️ Will it apply to online purchases?
No, because customers do not have the choice to opt out of using plastic bags.
▶️ How will charges be tracked?
All supermarkets have to record the total number of plastic bags issued, the amount collected and how this money is used.
▶️ When will supermarkets start charging shoppers?
From the first half of 2023.
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/shoppers-have-to-pay-five-to-10-cents-for-each-disposable-bag-at-supermarkets-from-2023
ππΌ Public Consultation on Disposable Carrier Bag Charge at Supermarkets: https://go.gov.sg/feedbackcarrierbagchargepr
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[10:06 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: I thought many here are against it
[10:06 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: Not sure why is NEA still seeking feedback
[10:06 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: @+REACHnever feedback?
[10:06 am, 28/01/2022] +Doris Ho: I think this movement is long overdue...
[10:15 am, 28/01/2022] +WJ: It will discourage some who wants to save money instead of the environment.
[10:16 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: I don't see why this is a government decision. Allow the PRIVATE supermarkets to make their own decisions on how they want to run their business and allow consumers the choice to decide which supermarkets they want to patronize accordingly.
I think in Singapore, our government interferes in too many things and sometimes, while it may achieve the KPI of some high ranking government scholar, does not necessarily improve the well being of the people they are supposed to serve.
[10:18 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: Each supermarket know their clientele the best and know whether having disposable bags is an important issue to their customers or now. How is mandating this an efficient way of organizing our society? This is government overreach.
[10:18 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: *not
[10:19 am, 28/01/2022] +Suma pamu: Pardon me for my ingnorance..
Usually all pastic bags we use to throw rubbish... And when use for other things we will use for Few times ..
Seems later i endup buying Rubbish bags separetly... (Only for single use... Wch is waste IMO)
[10:26 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: +1
[10:26 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: +1
[10:26 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: If NEA has a lot of bandwidth, I would strongly encourage them to find better problems to solve and not interfere in private businesses and consumers choice. Complete waste of government resources and time.
[10:27 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: Either that or NEA is obviously over-staffed and should consider downsizing and send the staff to the hospitals and train them to be nurses.
[10:27 am, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: +1
[10:43 am, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: NEA should consider looking into the state of our grass patches. They're getting dirtier
[10:44 am, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: Dried leaves a plenty and managing town councils who don't keep estate clean
[10:44 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: And dengue also
[10:45 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: Maybe have high fines
[10:45 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: *higher
[10:46 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: Got new Minister in NEA... π€£
[10:47 am, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Some Govt intervention is required.
Govt implement/set the rules/law to influence businesses, which in turn provide the goods/services to consumers accordingly.
Having said that, I think the proposal to charge 5-10cts for plastic bags is a DUMB IDEA! Please fire the scholar who thought up that idea!!!! π€¬π€¬π€¬π€π€π€
If you are not providing other alternatives, then the additional charge just adds to consumers' costs? How else is anyone who goes to the supermarket supposed to bring their purchases home? You can suggest bringing recyclable bags, but what if I didn't bring enough? Or forgot to bring one?
If the purpose is to reduce the use of plastics/plastic bags, then mandate the use of bags made of recyclable/environmentally friendly materials. Maybe go back to using paper - if that is more environmentally friendly.
And mandate that food packaging - all the plastic boxes, styrofoam boxes, plastic cling wraps etc which is package all sorts of foodstuff be gradually phased out. That is where most of the non-reusable plastics are used. At least where plastic grocery bags are concerned, most people would re-use them for garbage disposal.
For the longer-term, invest in education. It is all about habits. Incorporate recycling/re-using into early childhood/school life. Start with schools. Get the next generation used to it by incorporating it into the school environment where they are spending more than 1/2 their waking hours in. Over time, it will become a habit/sevond nature. That was how we got rid of the habit of spitting indiscriminately for example.
[10:47 am, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: I understand some town councils start cleaning at 4pm instead of the mornings π€£
[10:49 am, 28/01/2022] +JC: +1 what a DUMB idea. Well said.
[10:50 am, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Exactly .. missing the forest for a tree
[10:50 am, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: And the plastic bags we buy are not biodegradable types also. Even worst
[10:52 am, 28/01/2022] +Suma pamu: Yeah :)
[10:54 am, 28/01/2022] +Suma pamu: My only care now is I don't want to buy Plastic bags just for rubbish..! carry Reusable for Groceries
But what about Rubhish bags
Will NEA provide
Or how do i throw rubbishπ
[10:58 am, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: It seems like NEA/Govt actually spent more time thinking on how to improve the optics of charging for plastic bags.
Record each purchase (of bags) and cap/limit the annual revenues collected from plastic bags? I can see how that might convince some of us that the (minimum) 5-10ct charge is not driven by profit-motives, and this might help prevent price-gorging/unfair charges by dishonest merchants, but.... How does that solve the issue of saving the environment?
Again ... DUMB IDEA .. please give that scholar who dreamt this up 2 tight slaps on my behalf!
[11:04 am, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: π€£π€£π€£
[11:09 am, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: Worse case scenario, many will simply THROW wasted straight into the rubbish chut, hopefully not consumed foods and left overs too?
Implementing one NOBLE initiative and leads to other unintended consequences?
Any suggestions for this Chicken-An-Egg plastic wasted issue?
[11:11 am, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. I am not against preventing excessive use of plastic bags that will harm the global climate.
2. But what about bagging the liquid and solid wastes at home?
3. Previously, plastic bags are not only used as groceries carriers but also used to bag home waste.
4. By levying charges to every single plastic bags next year, are we suggesting not necessary to bag home waste anymore?
5. If expecting household to buy plastic bags to bag home waste - it is as good as gst on top of gst.
6. Many Food stalls at my neighborhood have been increasing their food prices widespread, inflation is many goods are rampant and now this plastic bags charges.
7. Wonder how lower income, middle income, retirees, unemployed going to live with such simultaneous increase in prices?
[11:11 am, 28/01/2022] +BL: Just ban them and provide paper bags, or require people to purchase reusable bags.
[11:12 am, 28/01/2022] +BL: Require all plastic bags to be made of compostable materials that decompose organically.
[11:12 am, 28/01/2022] +BL: Redmart plastic bags are made that way- all supermarkets can follow their lead.
[11:14 am, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: http://www.gorillabins.ca/blog/5-tips-for-disposing-of-food-waste/
[11:16 am, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
8. Coming to budget 2022, is the government going to give out refuse bag voucher on top of gst voucher every year?
[11:17 am, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
To every household.
[11:17 am, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Totally supportive
[11:19 am, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
8. If refuse bag voucher is given to every household every year, then I support charging every plastic bags in supermarkets.
[11:26 am, 28/01/2022] +Valli: NEA & Govt should brainstorm on the best method of disposing home waste before charging for plastic bag.
As can be understood, these bags are mainly recycled for disposing home waste into rubbish chutes.
[11:27 am, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
With the Government toying with charging money per plastic bags in supermarket, I will like to highlight the following :-
1. 3 options to solve the problem of reduction in usage of single plastic and bagging refuse and waste at home :-
a. 7 plastic bag free (1 plastic per day - to bag refuse) per shopping in supermarket - above 7 plastic bag - levy charge. Or;
b. Town council issue free plastic bag per week or per month to residents - to bag their refuse or waste (to HDB and private housing).
c. Government provide "Refuse Voucher (like GST Voucher" calculated as per the below formula :-
- 365 days x 2 waste basket per house x 0.20 cents per refuse bag = $146 or to round up $150 per year (to be given to every household - HDB and private housing).
2. This is to ensure that we don't solve one problem (less plastic problem) - but throw another problem at the people (no plastic to bag waste and refuse) - causing hygiene problem ----- without offering compensating solutions.
3. Without providing the above either of the 3 solution options, it will result in the following consequences :-
a. Impact to low and middle income household - who needs to dish out additional money to buy refuse bag (noting GST impending increase, public transport price increase, and pandemic trigger difficulties to household).
b. People may change their attitude towards bagging refuse eg. they may throw liquid waste or solid waste down the rubbish chute without bagging them - as they have no plastic bags to bag the waste. The consequences on hygiene will be dire :-
- rats, mosquitoes, cockroaches, ants, lizards, pigeons, birds etc and viruses, bacterias will grow - as people throw their refuse without bagging them.
c. High rise blocks rubbish chute will stink - and workers clearing the rubbish chutes will have a hard time. (Notice in chute when someone throw curry down without bagging them - the stench is unbearable --- and workers have to spray strong dose of water to clean up the curry mess).
Imagine this is multiply many times in every high-rise blocks ----- what will be the hygiene consequences islandwide?
[0:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: I would like to suggest the following:
1) pay 10 cents for each plastic bag consumers would like to take
2) give discount of 10-20 cents for those who bring their own bag
3) impose plastic tax for those companies who provide excessive packaging
[0:08 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: ▶️ How will charges be tracked?
All supermarkets have to record the total number of plastic bags issued, the amount collected and how this money is used.
1. Gov needs to provide support to biz on recording of six huge numbers, if it is in the interest of statistical tracking and for monitoring the success of this project.
2. Small biz tt r not automated wl find this to be a disincentive to implement.
In the end, u may hv some small outlets here & ther tt dun charge for the bags simply becoz the the ends just doesn't justify the means.
But if u make it mandatory, then r u gg to impose penalties & fines on the biz tt dun practise it?
Tt wud be a DUMB idea! As alredi, the small biz is struggling to survive.. Charging for carriers is def not to their interest & their biz may suffer further. ...
How then, is it 'fair' to the small biz?
[0:08 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: The impact
1. When supermart reduce plastic bag by charging... Ppls might or might not pay the plastic bag. so they will will end up buying plastic bags to throw rubbish at home. Worst, they threw waste directly into bin, resulting pest and pollution (messy cleanup n taxing for cleaner)
The impact is:i dont think NEA or whoever agency solve the right problem with our rubbish mgmt. It doesn't solve the root cause.
Suggestion:
1. To educate people mind set on usage of plastic bag, recycling and on how best to dispose the waste.
2. NeA should invest on innovation.Like invent smaller UT powerful rubbish crusher in old HDBs. The new HDBs have centralised chutes.
3. Then invent better biodegradable plastic bags.
4. Improve recycling approaches.It's a mega failure after so many years on recycling.And
Hence, They always good at starting but not sustaining.
[0:11 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: Perhaps Gov can re look into exempting small biz of certain revenue threshold from this rule then?
Or allowing such biz to charge on a per trans basis... and on a min trans limit of , say, $30 before charging for carriers for tt particular trans?
[0:12 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: ** such huge humbers
[0:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: "the problem is.. We human are creature of habits!"
For it took a generation to teach the next not to SPIT on the floor nor to SCRATCH others car doors!
- - anonymous
[0:41 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: If the objective of this is towards greeting & sustainability, then the effort is just a drop in the ocean.
Targetting plastics isn't the ONLY solution.
As mentioned by the others, you need also to look into :
A. Reduce use Of other Non-Recyclables, such as styrofoam boxes tt we use for our takeaways...
Perhaps go bk to the days when we used waxed paper to wrap our food ...?
B. Explore use of Bio-degradable materials for our containers - like those made from corn or sugar cane, and such like, to replace the styros... ?
C. 'Mandate' use of bio-degradable carriers, and later containers?
Gov to provide support & education in this area before implementation.
Dun do a half-ass job.
D. Tackle issue of home waste.
Provide more Education of Public in what is recyclable, etc., as well as perhaps provide the relevant receptacles for each household to bag them into, and also the appropriate bins to do so.
I read somewhere tt some countries practise this ππ». One of them is Germany?
Of course, this being SG, no one wud go thru all tt hassle for nothing.
So, perhaps do it in a few rounds, and provide some incentive in the first round for ppl to get used to the idea of sorting their trash, bagging them properly, etc.
Maybe even make it a game / town competition - hv a game card (w stamps) to record each successful bagging.. Work towards a green goal while at it, and then win a prize.
Make it a sure win for everyone at first level, then a block competition at 2nd lvl, and a town competition at 3rd level.
Such a game can then take up a whole year to complete! And Everyone gets Educated at the same time!!!
E. Educate our next gen, as mentioned by others earlier.
Inculcate the values (and habits) of Greening & Recycling from young.
F. Businesses & Corporations should also be involved.
Likewise, make building owners/ mgt be held responsible (tt provide the cleaners to clean the bldg & clear the rubbish) .
It is not enough for biz & corporations to do their part, if the premises they work in r not practising it too!
Landlords & owners shd also be held accountable.
F. Organise more Clean-the-Environment type of events ti build awareness in public.
G. Gov shd hv a task force to look into this, to maintain continuity.
Imo, just doing this plastic bag initiative is a "half-ass" job dreamt up by some (new?) scholar to gain brownie points.
I'm just concerned tt it wl eventually fall by the wayside, or lose steam, once this initiative is launched and no one else is left to continue with it!
Worse, all the good work done wl count for nothing at the end of the project! Millions of $$ & people's efforts go unappreciated.
Greening & Preserving our Environment isn't just a one-off exercise . It takes National effort & is a lifetime commitment !
π°π°π°π°π°π°
[0:41 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Yes, keep biodegradable bags free, and offer a 20c reduction to those who bring a reusable bag. Ban non biodegradable bags totally
[0:43 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: ** greening
Aiya.. This spell chk thing!
[0:48 pm, 28/01/2022] +Stella Yip: Instead of plastic bag, hope there is option to purchase paper bag.
[0:54 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Yes, seems obvious and what everyone did before plastic bags were invented
[1:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Will this affect deforestation?
[1:05 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: π€£
[1:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +Valli: Better bring trolley bag for shopping
[1:32 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Some will still not have enough paper bags!
[1:42 pm, 28/01/2022] +Boon: +1
[1:50 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: π€¦♂️
[1:57 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: As I said, pls do not let this be a half-ass effort initiative.
Gov has to commit to this cause all the way...
U can hv as many diff scholars to head it as u like, but ther shd be one main co-ordinating head & a specific task force set up to follow thru on all the initiatives.
[2:01 pm, 28/01/2022] +Boon: Dear REACH, why is this a government decision? The ST article does not state how was the conclusion of "excessive consumption of disposable bags" reached - what is excessive and how has NEA measured before coming up with this initiative? If a person buys a large kitchen item and it needs a plastic bag to carry it to the MRT and home - how is this excessive? If a person buys something heavy like canned food and needs 2 plastic bags to bag the cans to prevent breaking - how is this excessive use of disposal plastic bags? Is disposal shopping plastic bag really such a high environmental issue in Singapore?
NEA decision is untimely - this additional cost comes at a time of rising consumer inflation and daily prices including transport, electricity, water. For example, at the street level, food portions have noticably decreased to be sold at the same price, or the price has increased for the same portion. The costs of disposable plastic bags - regardless of how insignificant the 10cents or 5cents may be to some - adds to this perception of rising daily prices in Singapore. Why should there be a cost to consumers who are without cars - they can't pick up a few more things from the neighbourhood NTUC on their way home without having to pay for each of the shopping bag - and on businesses who just emerged from Covid and now need incur the cost of reporting to NEA on the number of bags consumed, justify the usage of their charges, etc. Honestly, are all these really that urgent and necessary? Are there seriously no other more urgent environmental issues in Singapore that NEA could put more effort to educate and reduce?
[2:09 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: +1
[2:11 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: That why i support user education for all these are important.
If everyone knows how to use properly, there won't be a y issue. Why Japan is so successful... Maybe NEA has to go there n case studies why.
[2:13 pm, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: https://www.greenplan.gov.sg/key-focus-areas/overview
[2:20 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: A 5-10ct charge is not a deterrent. It is not going to deter anyone from using more plastic bags at the supermarket.
It is however, an irritant...just another thing on the list for Singaporeans to bitch about - another dumbass Govt policy dreamt up by some out of touch scholar.
You want to reduce plastic usage, replace the packing/packaging materials which are non-biodegradable, non-recyclable and non-reusable. Supplement that effort by not using plastic grocery bags? Sure, give us a greener, more sustainable alternative - maybe paper bags? (question mark because using more paper = felling more trees?)
I expect more from our "rigorously" selected scholars.
[2:29 pm, 28/01/2022] +Valli: Why can’t Mobile phone companies & manufacturers have a common understanding of sustainability & initiate a common charging cable head instead of variations.
Likewise for all technology gadgets. A global understanding needs to be initiated.
[2:32 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Incorporate Recycling Bins into our daily environment.
Through observations of how countries like Japan (a bit extreme in my opinion .. but ... ) do this, their recycling bins are everywhere AND each type (for different trash/materials) have a different shaped/sized opening.
This is matched with disposable trash that are uniformly sized/shaped, eg. aluminium cans will all have to fall within certain dimensions so that it will fit through the opening of the thrash/re-cycling bin for aluminium cans ... similarly, plastic bottles (for beverages) will be of a certain dimension/measurement.
Some of the bins are also mostly transparent, so you can't hide what you are trying to dispose into those bins.
This might mean manufacturers/producers might have to re-design their product packaging (dimensions/measurements) before it its allowed to be imported into Singapore. Its not going to be easy, but in the long run, and if we are serious about sustainability and environment protection etc,, we need to recognise that thrash disposal is a large part of the effort.
Like a lot of people had mentioned earlier, this should not just be a temporary/marketing "campaign". Make it a way of life.
[2:36 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: +1
NEA shld make sure every building have a recycle bin beside a distbin
[2:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Education on usage and not misused is the key to moving forward
[2:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: Provided the cleaners don't all throw into the trash bins also.
[2:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: Well all these bins cost money and resources and if people don't change their behavior, it'll just add more to carbon footprint and waste. And recycling is generally not v efficient anyway and I think there are studies which questions e actual beneficial impact of recycling. Ultimately if we r just doing this for show then ok la. If we think any of this is going to move e needle, we r probably kidding ourselves.
[2:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Or the residents just throw without using the correct bin too.
[2:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Exactly
[2:41 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: And our ewaste bin is always full...
Can NEA allow eWaste collection in every HDB blocks?
[2:49 pm, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/taxi-fares-in-singapore-poised-to-rise-in-march
Taxi fares in Singapore poised to rise in March.
Now seems like increasing price of all goods and services is the fashion of the day.
[2:50 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Totally agree on the part about people's habits/behaviour, which is why I strongly advocate for all our Schools to incorporate sustainability into the school environment.
Inculcate the right habits from a young age so that it becomes second nature to the younger generations. Students spend more than half their waking hours in school over many many of their formative years. Outside of school, the habits/practices can be continued/reinforced more easily if the right facilities - recycle bins etc, are available.
It might be a bit too late for many of us old folks, but its still early days for the young ones π
[2:57 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Commuters will strive to use bus, mrt and lrt!?
[2:59 pm, 28/01/2022] +Valli: Agree
[3:02 pm, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Seems like bus, MRT and lrt has announced fare increase, now taxi fare increase, plastic bag charge increase, foodstall every bowl increase by 50 cents, some 20 cents.
Gst going to increase to 9%.
Power electricity and water bill increase until don't know how to count.
Supermarkets groceries items all seems to increase prices.
What products and services got reduce price?
Some lower income people and retirees are voicing unhappiness.
And all these news of price increases further add to their burden.
[3:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: with all these real problems on the horizon and REACH is asking us about 5-10 cents charges for plastic bags...
[3:04 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: π‘
[3:05 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: seriously this NEA consultation thing is very trivial compared to real problems people hope govt can solve. We didn't pay 9% GST to pay govt administrators to think about how to make us use less plastic bags.
[3:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: The 5-10ct charge is intended to raise awareness and encourage less use of plastics,,, which I think everyone agrees, is a dumb idea that will only raise the ire of the masses.
GST is a consumption tax that is more equitable and suitable in our context, than another Income tax hike.
Power/Electricity tariff is highly dependent on input costs (Natgas prices) and Transmission costs (admin/infrastructure/maintenance costs, which btw, have also risen). Clean water cost in Singapore is one of the lowest in the World even if you double it, especially when taking into consideration Household income, accessibilty, safety etc.
SG imports most of our essentials. The pandemic had disrupted supply chains and caused input prices to rise globally. Hopefully, some of the extraordinary factors will ease once the world enters the endemic phase.
Hotel/Travel related segment probably saw some temporary price decrease. Yes, those are not our priority/not in demand, but then again, that is exactly how supply-and-demand affects prices.
Everyone is unhappy at some level, but the lower income, ironically, would have been the least affected by the factors listed above. Why?
Assuming public transport expenditure of $5 daily (bus/MRT/LRT). Even if the fare increase were 10% (which is not. It is closer to 2%, but wth, lets round it up to the nearest 10 anyways) it would mean a 50ct increase per day.
Taxi fare increase not only 50cts more you say? My take is this.. if someone is really "low-income", he/she most likely will not be taking the taxi regularly ie. not going to affect him/her much/at all since he/seh will not be taking Taxi much/at all. If this someone belongs to the segment who takes the Taxi like I take the bus/MRT, then I doubt he/she is "low-income". In which case.. pay up, or take the bus/MRT like the rest of us.
GST vouchers...
House brands....
Hotels/Staycations/Tourist attractions... probably not relevant .. to most of us
Similarly... no one is happy .. exacerbated by pandemic .. hopefully we see blue skies soon.
Last but not least ... kinda off topic for today ππππ
[3:33 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Government has to increase subsidy across all help types, adjust means testing to accommodate inflation and possibly lower the threshold for assistance.
[3:34 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: +1
[3:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Maybe after some brainstorming sessions having sensed fatigue in our recent CV-related discussions here, some Scholar suggested mixing it up and refreshing things a bit ....
Scholar 1: "How about a debate about 5-10ct plastic bags?"
Everyone else in the Group-Think-Yes-People-room: "Yes. Fantastic Idea!"
Later that day after the daily/morning brainstorming session ... at 10.05am ...
[3:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Waiting to see pricing of cooked food and wet marking for social enterprise tender for NEA sites.
[3:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: But salaries not increasing.
[3:36 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Government will say Progressive Wage Model for lower income across various jobs types is helping.
[3:37 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: No help for middle income
[3:38 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: Middle income has no subsidies and pay the full bill which are increased further. Their salary is fixed there and no wonder they resort to charge to credit debt.
[3:38 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Let's see any goodies for this on 180222.
[3:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: I'm not against GST but I'm against Govt wasting time/resource on things that don't really make too much of a difference to the lives of the people they are serving.
[3:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: Don't think so when so many prices increase and salary still the same.
[3:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: More subsidies usually lead to higher prices ... the paradox of subsidies. The intent may be right, but the outcomes tend to be sub-optimal. You literally cannot fix this problem by throwing more money at it.
[3:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: As minister intranet rajah said some time ago, assist rich but cash poor.
[3:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Government will use increase taxes to assist although not sure how much can citizens accept.
[3:41 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: If someone is already Middle Income, why should he/she still be demanding help?
[3:42 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Possibly age of property and elder in age with no income!?
[3:42 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Agree... like coming up with a 5-10ct "plastic bag tax" π€¦♂️
[3:44 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Reverse Mortgage schemes?
[3:44 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: The environment and the planet will suffer even more if just education and soft approach does nor change people's mindset. We all have to take care for the planet we live on.
[3:44 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Lease buy back for private property!?
[3:45 pm, 28/01/2022] +Elena Woo: Because increased prices affect them a lot. Ur take home pay is 3k, ur monthly expenses already 3k, and increased price of GST, need to buy plastic bags for rubbish now, increased bus mrt fares, increased price everywhere, is more than 3k. Ur salary no increase, ur expenditure increase, where do u find the money to cover? Remember u put ur child to childcare no additional subsidy coz middle income mah. I think u must be rich otherwise u won't ask this qn.
[3:46 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: We have been educating...think no effect on Singaporeans
[3:46 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Its a bit like how the Young Boss of "Founder BKT" appealing for support wearing his AP watch π
[3:46 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Agree
[3:48 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: Most people on mothership’s telegram channel support the move to charge
[3:48 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: An example of people stubbornness - cheers outlet at hougang Ave 8 blk 631, to charge ten cent for a plastic van and the elderly raise hell at the outlet staff!
[3:48 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: I do too
[3:48 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Bag not van
[3:49 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: There is always the option to encash no? ie. Sell the Private Property, and buy something/some place cheaper, use he cash for the more urgent need? Not saying its the only way, but shouldn't that be a consideration/option before asking for GOVT assistance?
[3:50 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Studio apartment from hdb should suffice for a elderly couple with no children
[3:51 pm, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: Never lease buy back terms not good. If possible rent
[3:57 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Ahhh,,, i see why we disagree now .... Your benchmark for Middle Income is 3k/mth ... I was basing it on the official Median Household Income which is almost 8k (2020 figures).
Of course, if the combined household income is 3k, I think some assistance is in order.
[4:19 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Frankly, levying a surcharge in the hopes of changing a habit/behaviour, especially when the surcharge is low relative to the "price" or effort of changing a habit, usually has the opposite effect of what the penalty/surcharge was intended to correct.
For example, for those who have children in childcare, you would know that some childcare centres have a late-pick up fine. The practise is self explanatory. Or is it?
Imagine you are the parent, and assume the penalty is a flat $10 as long as you are more than 5min late.
Anyone who had never actually been in that situation, would think that this is a very good idea that would almost certainly eliminate late pickups. But guess what? In reality, if you were running late, and know that you would be charged $10 whether or not you are 5min late or 1hr late, what do you think would most likely happen? Still rush to pickup your child? Or more likely take it easy since you are going to pay the $10 penalty anyways.
What about the next time? Will you feel bad and put in more effort to be on time? Or would you be thinking... nevermind, Iah.. this task/meeting more important, at most pay the $10 today lor.
Of course, the consideration will be different as well, if the penalty/fee is escalating/increases in every 15min blocks.. or maybe it is a high as $100 (in which case, the childcare centre will most likely have no customers)? Too low, and it will reinforce the bad habit, too high and consumer will go elsewhere.
More importantly, the point is, levying a surcharge more often than not, reinforces the habit/behaviour that it was intended to correct because the act of penance (paying up) legitimises the bad behaviour/habit.
So, in the case of the 5-10ct surcharge on plastic bags, more likely than not, shoppers will just pay up, instead of putting in the effort to change their habit - to bring along enough re-usable/non-plastic bags, they might even feel that they have done their part ... afterall some of the funds collected from the sale of plastic bags are meant to go towards sustainability efforts right?
[4:24 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: Yes, agree.
But mindset never change becoz the efforts r ditched or die out eventually.
Ther is no champion for the cause of greening & sustainability.
Again, if the gov is Serious abt this topic, pls then create a task force or committee to look into it and do so for the Long Term.
Not half-baked ideas and thoughts tt focus on the minority or unessential things.
π€
[4:25 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Probably need to create a permanent Ministry, or incorporate it into an existing one.
[4:25 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: Also, pls ensure proper implemention & Co ordination of efforts from everyone.
Not just focus on community.
For biz / corporations, can gv incentives instead of fines, fines, and more fines.
[4:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: Case in point: After introducing fines for not returning your tray, now whenever I go out and dine at coffeshop or food court majority of people returned their own trays
[4:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: πππ
[4:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: For Singaporeans, money needs to be involved whether is it fine or rewards or extra charges for it to work
[4:26 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: π€·♀️π€·♀️π€·♀️π€·♀️
[4:28 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: I don't think so.. I still see many are collected and returned by the cleaners. Helps that there are more return stations around. Better design of the trays, utensils etc will help further.
But in this case, I doubt it has to do with the threat of fines. Haven't seen any enforcement personnel around.
[4:29 pm, 28/01/2022] +RH: Btw, the CNA Green Plan is a move in the right direction to get people aware of this cause.
But ther is still room for more of such initiatives.
[4:29 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: At least I see there is more conscientious effort to return the tray
[4:29 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Only when the fine/punishment is sufficiently punitive. For example fines/penalty for dangerous driving and drink driving is obviously not high/severe enough
[4:30 pm, 28/01/2022] +Timothy Low: Mainly because people are trying their luck as they won't be caught ever single time drink driving. Whereas for plastic bags it is mandatory to pay for it for every single one they take at supermarkets
[4:32 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: For sure there are improvements.,, but I think its not the fines alone. I personally felt that having more return stations definitely helped. Just like I would like to do more with thrash recycling, but can't even find a decent recycling bin - with thrash separation - in most places.
[4:36 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Yup.. so in a way, a speeding ticket or drink driving fine, is amortised over the many times the driver had been doing it. If the penalty is such that getting caught once (out of even 100 times) is punitive enough eg. car will be confiscated + mandatory jail time of at least 1yr + 3 strokes of the rotan.. and of course.. enforced consistently and regularly, I would like to see how many still think its worthwhile to try their luck.
[4:37 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Just like drug trafficking
[4:40 pm, 28/01/2022] +Dan: Its all about perspective. Drawing the analogy of fetching your kids from childcare, if you jokingly tell the ppl you are workng with that if you don't knock off to fetch your child now, you are getting a penalty, will your co-workers fault you?
Green initiatives should start somewhere and plastic bags has always been an issue in Singapore. It takes 1000 yrs for plastic bag to decompose in a landfill. Plastic pollution is directly affecting our marine life, and inbalance to the ecosystem does have a direct effect in our life. Remember how we ban smoking in public areas, G is using the same tactic by raising costs first. Perhaps its time we explore alternatives to dispose our trash.
[4:42 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: I think we need to be really careful about setting up more and more govt agencies to do things that should be part of individual preferences and responsibilities.
Once you set up a ministry/agency, it takes a life of its own and it will justify the reason for its own existence.
When it comes to environmental/climate change issues, I don't think every citizen is on the same page in terms of the trade-offs that each individual is willing to make. On such issues, I really think the govt should not interfere - especially since we are a tiny country and nothing we do will have any impact on global climate trends etc.
I will be more open if the mandate of the ministry is to ensure a clean and green environment for us to live in -> but that is what NEA is supposed to do already. They should focus on more on actions/activities that have a DIRECT impact on the quality of life of our citizens and not waste resources just to look like we are "on-side" when it comes to environmentalism.
[4:47 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: I disagree with the part about being a small country doesn't count towards having an Γ¬mpact on global climate trends. If we don't do our small but red dot contribution, who are we to partake in any global effort to save our planet! Let's just look inwards.
[4:47 pm, 28/01/2022] +Dan: Same as smoking. No direct impact, no immediate effects, personal choices of smokers. Comparing 2nd hand smoke is less harmful than gas emissions of vehicles and factories so why control personal choices.
[4:53 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: Effects of 2nd hand smoke is well studied and there's a direct linkage between exposure to very specific poor health outcomes (e.g. lung disease, asthma, lung cancer).
There are far less evidence that ANY of the proposed actions to "save the earth" can actually have any impact on the environment. There is often no linkage and while I understand the sentiment of wanting to do our part, I think there should be more scrutiny on the effectiveness of these actions.
How many sea turtles are "saved" if we stop using plastic bags in NTUC or straws in McDonalds? How many degrees in global climate can we help to cool by converting to solar energy?
We shouldn't rush into these actions just to salve our conscious and THINK that we are making a difference when we may not be. Especially if there are other negative unintended consequences of these actions.
[4:56 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Yes - 2 years of Covid and Billions of Dollars spent will need to be recouped. Sadly, there is an economic consequence to a world-wide deadly pandemic. We've been cushioned from it with huge injections of cash. Over time it will need to be balanced.
[4:59 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: π
[5:01 pm, 28/01/2022] +Dan: https://www.onyalife.com/guide-to-living-plastic-free-life/
[5:01 pm, 28/01/2022] +Dan: Felt a need. Sorry for spamming this group.
[5:01 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Fair point, but climate change is real. We don't know all the causes nor all the solutions, but being conscious and admitting the problem is a first step. Wearing a mask doesn't stop Covid, but it does help.
[5:02 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Not spam - this is useful and all part of educating us in how to adjust our habits.
[5:02 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: It's good to share! I am not against the messaging but I do have a problem with govt overreach. Not everyone is on the same page and I think on such topics, we should give people the freedom to learn and decide for themselves.
[5:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: We must leave something behind for the next few generations and not kill mother earth with our stupidity towards the environment.
[5:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: We are surrounded by Ocean - we need to take care of it: https://www.netflix.com/title/80164032
[5:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: I...am...not so sure about that. But that's another rabbit hole that is pointless now that the pandemic is going to be over soon :D
[5:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Yes I agree that we should not do it just because its "fashionable".
Having said that, I disagree that we should not do it because we are too small collectively to make any real DIRECT impact. Reason being that there will be INDIRECT influence and benefits. Our journey, experience and outcomes may be a case study for some other larger Nation where changes will have significant impact on our climate/environment. If we succeed, we are indirectly lending our voice and strength to proponents of the cause elsewhere, hopefully even in places/countries where the needle will finally be moved. Individually, we may not have much impact, but collectively, there will be a difference. If we do nothing, we have no chance, but if we just try, don't have to wait for others to move first, we at least stand a chance.
[5:04 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: π - was just illustrating sometimes part of a solution is better than nothing; and it's not always binary.
[5:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Seems to be another debate about something that could be solved very easily. Ban non-combustible plastic carrier bags. We already have an alternative solution. https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/04/30/plastic-paper-cotton-bags/
[5:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: maybe. but maybe not too... it's iffy. If we have unlimited resources, then yes sure why not. But as I hear very often from our govt, we have limited resources. Is working on something that MIGHT have an INDIRECT impact to influence worth using our limited resources on? I struggle to see how this should be done by the government. At an individual level - by all means - we can live as environmentally friendly as we like and be a shining beacon to our neighbors in Singapore or beyond... but to use government resources and the force of law, I disagree.
[5:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: I think you misunderstood my point about childcare and penalty for late pickups.
Its not the colleagues, but the parents themselves. Once you think you can offset the problem/inconvenience with a small fee, a lot of people will choose to do that.
[5:08 pm, 28/01/2022] +BL: Summary: "Ultimately, the single use of any bag is the worst possible choice. The key to reducing your environmental impact is to use whatever bags you have around the house as many times and in as many ways as possible. It’s understandable if, during this time of COVID-19, you’ve reverted to plastic bags to protect yourself and are probably discarding them after a one-time use. But when the risk of COVID-19 abates, remember to try to use whatever bag you choose as many times as possible. HDPE or LDPE bags can be used to store food, line wastebaskets, pick up dog poop, pack lunches, pad packages, stash wet umbrellas and in many more ways."
[5:11 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Unfortunately, some outcomes are only possible with everyone's collective effort. You can't steer a ship with everyone insisting on going their own way.
We are all in the same boat. Singapore, Asia, Planet Earth. We share the same atmosphere. Our seas are connected.
[5:13 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: Well, that's why I am 100% supportive of the sea wall cos this ship isn't steering anytime soon π
[5:15 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: The reality is that the fundamental issues driving climate change/environmental degradation are deep rooted and pervasive. It would be naive to think that we can just "policy" it away - we severely overestimate our ability to change human behavior and underestimate the depth of the systemic issues.
[5:16 pm, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: Taxi fares in Singapore poised to rise in March
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/taxi-fares-in-singapore-poised-to-rise-in-march
[5:20 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: I think the better way to approach the problem is to assume that human behavior will NOT change anytime soon. Certainly not fast enough for it to have an impact on the environment. If we truly want to save the earth, then advocate for heavy investments for R&D and technology breakthroughs - if we discover a cheap and easy way to make environmentally friendly plastic bags, we can solve the problem immediately by scaling up the production/distribution. It's certainly more efficient than bickering over who's displaying the right or wrong behavior.
[5:20 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Govt intervention does not always mean $ only.
It can be expertise. Steering our education system towards climate/environment related areas. Cultivating and attracting Scientists and Experts who can lift our collective expertise and know-how in that area. To be have the knowledge so that our representatives/Ministers can articulate our concerns and rally our allies on the Global stage.
Simply adjusting/restricting the import and usage of certain products/materials - eg. asbestos - will have a big impact on our usage/access, which in turn will influence habits/behaviour.
No $ involved. Definitely within our Govt's purview.
[5:22 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Just take the Bus/MRT/LRT or Walk if really cannot afford it.
Waiting and hoping we have some Taxi drivers here who can share their perspective on π
[5:23 pm, 28/01/2022] +jimmy chew: Start from young Maybe k1 and k2..
[5:24 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Yes
[5:28 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: well... everything is $ at the end of the day, you need to pay the salaries for the experts. you need to staff the ministry/agency, etc. Again, if you have lots of excess resources ($ or otherwise), sure thing... but if we don't, is this really something our govt want to devote time/resources on? what's the ROI?
For context - our neighbor Indonesia has 280m people and they have an exploding diabetes epidemic due to rising obesity rates and a under-funded health systems. Diabetes patients are DYING from diabetes directly (not from complications, but directly from too high blood sugar) cos they were detected too late or don't have access to doctors. How much $ do you think Indonesia will be allocating to "saving the earth" on interventions with questionable effectiveness for a tomorrow that may never come for those who are dead vs. paying for insulin treatment for millions of diabetes patients today so that they can live a decent life.
[5:32 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: our little efforts in environmentalism is nothing more than a salve for our rich-world conscious cos we know we still want to travel and leave our carbon footprints during our annual family holiday or to drive around in a city state with world class public transport system cos it is a "need" for a family with kids needing to go for enrichment classes.
[5:34 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: Not trying to be downer but just trying to look at the problem realistically. Technology got us into the problem we have today, we need to hope that Technology (not changing human behavior) is going to get us out of it.
[5:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: In the meantime, better build that sea wall cos that sea level is going to rise and rise.
[5:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: So with more use of AI/drone/robotics, will make things worse!?
[5:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Ongoing process at the moment
[5:35 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: depends on how we use it...
[5:41 pm, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Actually government can make people happy and yet achieve the goal of using less plastic bags.
2. Similar to the tune of Temasek Holdings issue of free mask in vending machine - government can make use of the vending machine to issue " free refuse bags per household" - sufficient to bag home refuse per year.
3. Proceed to charge per plastic bags in supermarkets - by encouraging people to bring reusable bags.
4. By offering solutions to :-
a. Maintain same hygiene standard for each household - by continue to encourage household to bag their home refuse - with promise of free refuse bags.
b. Yet discourage excessive use of plastic bags in supermarkets by charging plastic bags
- will have serve 2 purposes in one go.
Why should the government antagonise the population by singularly announce the charging of plastic bags - but yet not addressing the needs to bag home refuse - in the same breath - when public is voicing out that Government did not address the concern of bagging home refuse.
This outreach has become a bad PR exercise - that leave a bad taste.
[5:42 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: Fortunately, SG can afford the financial costs while at the same time, we unfortunately can't afford the non-financial consequences. The ROI is unclear at best/worse. But no investments = certain ruin.
Many countries are mismanaged to their own detriment. We can't dictate what others do. Does not mean that we do nothing just because others are not doing anything about it too.
I am not naive nor highly optimistic that SG through our Green initiates, will save the Earth π but I think we should give it a go regardless.
And yes.. hope the sea wall is built igh enough π this is where our kiasu spirit should shine brightly ... whatever estimate, just double the height and build it double-strengthed π
[5:43 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Agree
[5:47 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: I feel angsty about this because our govt is withholding subsidies on other areas (e.g. health, social care, nursing homes) claiming to have limited resources, need to be prudent. These are things that require immediate attention and have direct impact on lives of citizens.
Then on the other hand, we spend money on "green initiatives" for optical purposes, knowing that a forest fire in Kalimantan will wipe out whatever that we do for a year. I am not happy with that π‘
[5:49 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Good point
[5:55 pm, 28/01/2022] +Joseph: No amount of "resources" will ever be sufficient for people who think that the Govt needs to allocate more towards social spending.
The key, in my opinion, is balance and sensible allocation of resources. You may not agree with spending on Green initiatives, there are others who feel financial aid for the needy is socialism and disagree with that too π
[5:57 pm, 28/01/2022] +JC: Yep yep understandable... just trying to argue from a ROI perspective. No right answers!
[5:58 pm, 28/01/2022] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. This will have the effect of a hard quota for the entire population - that uses a fixed number of refuse bags to bag home refuse. And yet ensure hygiene are maintained for all households.
2. Charging the plastic bags in supermarkets will restrict additional uses of plastic bags - as people will use reusable bags rather than pay for the plastic bags.
Wonder why a simple solution that does not require rocket science solutions not put upfront.
[5:58 pm, 28/01/2022] +Gcml: True. Sensible allocation of our is required.
Green initiatives start from the family. Education will bring about more widespread acceptance.
[6:00 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Agree
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Even we separate the recyclable items into paper, cans n glass. I witness cleaner at shopping mall treated them like rubbish. Pour together with general waste. Really what a waste.
In summary, ppl shd educate on how, why, what etc on recycling. Like that waste ppls effort of recycle.
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Have also no use if ppls no educated how, why and what to use. If not general waste all lumped together with recycled items. Waste effort again.
Key words - educate. Even preschooler or pri sch kids also know how to recycle.
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: That is the issue. They dun care.
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Laziness... Can't be bother, or purposely...
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Very taxing.. They centralise in cc or clubhse.
[6:03 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Yes
[6:04 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Think of the cleaner
[6:04 pm, 28/01/2022] +REACH: More than 175,000 kids aged between five and 11 have got at least one Covid-19 vaccine dose
More: https://str.sg/wdc8
More safe management enforcement across F&B industry, Chinatown, during CNY period
More: https://str.sg/wdqd
[6:04 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Education must start at pre primary school.
[6:05 pm, 28/01/2022] +~N: I'm not sure if NEA really needs the feedback. Just do the usual policy implementation protocol. Either make it expensive or make it unavailable, or make it inconvenient, then finally when majority is on it, make it mandatory.
[6:07 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: 100% agreed.
[6:09 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Lol.. Maybe next round NEA implement the giving away nice durable shopping bag to each household or each pax with valid id.
Will that help?
[6:09 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Scan one Id and get a nice shopping bag (ask sch or public to design the bag) .
[6:09 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Why not!?
[6:10 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Yeah. This is to get them n help us. I guess those aunt will be great to collect the bag. Just like the ndp bag
[6:11 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Ask Ho Ching
[6:13 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Lol..later, Hc asks simi daji..let nea go n settle...
[6:13 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Temasek Foundation self collection machines can be used!?
[6:13 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: Yes. Make use of that..
[6:14 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: No point taking away and putting back repeatedly!?
[6:14 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: π
[6:15 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: +1
And the ART distribution also. Some people may not want it also
[6:17 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Yes. Let the machines stay where they are for forecast future social planning.
[6:18 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Residents committee can look after them!?
[6:21 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: Ya
[6:21 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: More environmentally friendly then transporting back to warehouse and then put it back for the next distribution
[6:21 pm, 28/01/2022] +Caleb: ?
[6:22 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Less vehicles exhaust fumes, driver less stress, save fuel and erp for company.
[6:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +XaniceAfcai: With this hor, dun say gov didn't give u a bag hor.. If one choose not to bring then that one daji aka issue... Then one got to pay lah...
Win win...
[6:39 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: Yes
[6:45 pm, 28/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:52 pm, 28/01/2022] +Kevin: Good night Megan
[6:52 pm, 28/01/2022] +Smiley face: 28 January 2022
To: Distinguished Ministers and All Honorable Members
"Old Habits Die Hard - Are you Green Or Are You A Greenhorn...Ten Cents Matter to Many"
- - anonymous
All Ways and Always -
To all concerning, Singapore has long been a nation whereby it always thinking beyond the horizon, more than those hot button issues, bread & butter issues and today it is the Green issue that is years ahead!
Is it over thinking? Perhaps not so, for many global citizens believe the changes in our climates and many physical environments are visible and truly humble all, we as human.
The Green Plan 2030 is a vision that will transform Singapore into a small GREEN dot at the same time erasing that old name of the little red dot?
Are we Green naive folks? Yes, it is simple thinking because we human are creatures of habits and to rewire the brains to new habits take lot of time to cement these Green paths into a new normal way of livings.
Old Ways -
How to change habits? It takes more than incentives and less of the punishment of all sorts. It will be counter productive to implement punitive acts to correct a bad social/hygiene habit unless we are dealing with rough and tough citizens? A continuous effort of educating the public and school children the importance of a stable and safe living environment with the impending storms of climate change. We have to find new ways of mitigating these social & environmental issues. It is only through patience and education, a nation will grow towards the Green path of living, willing please?
New Ways -
What it takes to achieve the 2030 goals and beyond these Green initiatives? It all starts from one's home. How parenting will affect the next generation to adopt and adapt to these inevitable global mega trend of changes, be it climate, be it social integration or be it economics cycles . It is a tall order for a family to undertake such fore front issues, it takes knowledge and awareness in order for parents to equip with the relevant simple tools to teach these proponent change of habits, expectations and aspirations to their offsprings, one important thing is to start younger than older.
Who should be the driver of these Green vehicles? These stakeholders to include beyond the policymakers, the entire civic societies and grassroot organisations; an organic, involving and evolving approaches. It is like a full bus load of human on the same journey and many station stops.
Always -
So there is no short cut or stopping nor slowing down when dealing with the global climate change and all consequences! It is real and let's be well prepared and planned for the best outcomes which is to coexist with the world of tomorrows.
The challenge is HOW soon we change and not WHEN we will change? Some may say it is like you reap what your sow - Our Green Dot SG!
Afterwords:
The inevitable 9% GST and the 10 cents charge of the supermarket plastic bags are both hot button issues to many though not majority there is no quantifiable figures yet to be properly researched and reported these unhappy folks. Will you pick up ten cent in a wet market floor or too shy to do so or is just a dirty ten cents? Can we NOT impose this charges onto our PG & MG senior citizens?
Is this 10 cents charges an inflation of things to come? Will consumers at large perceive this penny charge as a small revenue to these commercial entities? Perhaps a little of both inflation and consequential of one thing leading to the other - the Green noble cause into supermarkets, ends at the wet markets and retail shops. Will our favorites wet market vegetables sellers, poutries sellers and fish mongers follow the supermarket ways of imposing 10 cents for plastic bags? Yes, hopefully not, all our favourite wet market stores and neighborhood retail shops will "include" this 10 cents or 20 cents plastic cost into my plastic bags of paid groceries and necessities! Will you reuse these paid plastic bags or will you recycle them? The common way is to reuse these bags for disposing of foods and wasted.
This 'old habits die hard' model of REUSING of groceries plastic bags for refuse purposes is a multi decade old habit. The public will have to adapt to new ways, new habits and stomach these creatures comfort to breakthrough the old ways of disposing daily wasted with it leftovers foods or harder items into the new Green ways! What's the Green methods in disposing leftovers cooked foods and other perishable items? Is it practical solutions? Having one noble initiative may lead to other unintended consequences! The nation's print media and visual media should undertake a weekly. ESG investigative news, articles and short documentaries on existing Green methods and technologies. How other nations are coping with their spectrum of problems and deriving sustainable solutions?
Let's start educating our people these cutting edge news and new things.
When will be the 'last days" for these shopping bags and plastic bags - those creatures comfort and conveniences, for old habits die harder...!"
Additional:
https://www.greenplan.gov.sg/key-focus-areas/overview
https://matcha-jp.com/en/10149
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/business/worldbusiness/23iht-food.1.14720548.html
"the problem is.. We human are creatures of habits!"
For it took a generation to teach the next not to SPIT on the floor nor to SCRATCH others car doors!
- - anonymous
- - END - -
[6:52 pm, 28/01/2022] +Rama: ππ€ππ
[7:00 pm, 28/01/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
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