REACH (Telegram) 25 - What are your thoughts on the new guidelines? What more can be done to foster a more collaborative partnership between parents and teachers? 

(SK)

24 Sep 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 9:45 AM]

Dear Contributors,

Welcome Back! 😊

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Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 10:01 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

Parents who escalate school issues unnecessarily and overstep boundaries with teachers are a minority, but they waste time and divert resources away from the wider school community, said Education Minister Chan Chun Sing on Sep 20. He was speaking on The Usual Place, a podcast by The Straits Times.

They write to the media, the Prime Minister, even the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau; one turned up at his Meet-the-People session, others have sent lawyers' letters to air their grievances. He shared these examples to explain why he recently highlighted the need to establish guidelines on how parents communicate with teachers. 

💬 What are your thoughts on the new guidelines? What more can be done to foster a more collaborative partnership between parents and teachers?

At the Ministry of Education (MOE) Schools Work Plan Seminar on Sep 18, Minister Chan said that teachers are not required to share their personal phone numbers, and do not need to respond to work-related messages after school hours.

Official channels such as e-mail and office numbers should be used when contacting parents, and teachers should respond to work-related messages after school hours only in the event of emergencies, he said.

He stressed that the majority of parents are supportive of teachers and educators. But he said that the “small number” of parents who go overboard has a “disproportionate effect because they deprive the other parents of the time that the educators would want to spend with the kids”.

📌 Teachers are not ‘service providers’

Parents should see themselves as partners with their child’s teachers, said Minister Chan, rather than assume a transactional relationship with expectations and demands, as they would with a service provider.

Beyond creating entitled children or parents, he said such a mindset would have serious implications for the teaching profession. “Who will want to be a teacher?” asked Minister Chan.

📌 Why do parents behave this way?

Minister Chan said that perhaps now parents have a “natural tendency” to want to do more for their children, whereas in the past, parents “generally trust the teachers more”.

He added: “Today, I think a lot of people feel that, ‘Well, I’m also highly educated, then I should have a view on certain things.’”

📌 Best gift for teachers: Respect and trust

Teachers need the space and time to focus on helping their students realise their potential, and understand their strengths and weaknesses. This is the ethos that society needs to continue to help teachers with, said Minister Chan.

“Then they will get burned out quite soon. So I think we support our teachers by respecting them, and giving them the trust, time and space to do the best things they can for our kids.”

👉 https://str.sg/E7Tt

👉https://str.sg/weAN7

👉 Podcast: https://omny.fm/shows/the-usual-place/why-parents-should-not-see-teachers-as-service-pro

---

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 10:33 AM]

There's some teachers that actually do a lot more. For example Google meet after school hours.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 10:35 AM]

I wonder how about students. If I as a student got questions wanted to ask teachers through WhatsApp does that mean the students could not do so

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 11:00 AM]

[ Poll : Do you think the new guidelines are sufficient to ensure that teachers have protected time after school hours? ]

- Yes, the guidelines are adequate

- No, stronger guidelines are needed (please share your views in the chats)

- No, the guidelines are too restrictive (please share your views in the chats)

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 11:01 AM]

ChewyRuza, [24/9/2024 11:20 AM]

I think as some people shared on other platforms, parents aren’t really the biggest issues.  There are always unreasonable parents, but honestly, there are so many changes happening in schools and the system that I think the teachers get more problems with the school leaders and middle managers

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 11:36 AM]

1. Honestly, as parents, we do not disturb the teachers after school hours - because teachers have many other responsibilities after teaching such as mark papers, ECA, set teaching materials, prepare next lessons and their own personal time to spend with their own families.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 11:38 AM]

2. As working parents, we similarly also want our private times with our family members and friends - instead of tying up with work after office hours.

Wee Seng Koh, [24/9/2024 11:45 AM]

Teachers are not service providers... and parents should work in partnership with the teachers - i agree with the statement. 

For parents / guardians to not text teachers after office hours, is not realistic. As the majority are working adults, therefore only able to make clarifications with the teachers (after discussing with their children/ward) at home, after work. Regardless is through personal text or email. Regarding expectations of respond, it would be better left to the individual teacher. 

Hence i am agreeable for the proposal to be  guideliness, instead of a fixed general order.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 11:46 AM]

3. Imagine 40 parents need to interact with the teacher after school hours, then even 24 hours will not be sufficient for teachers to respond to school work.

This is unreasonable demands from the parents.

xXx.SCAR.xXx, [24/9/2024 11:46 AM]

There are good teachers and there are bad ones who don't care about their students, don't teach well or don't prevent bullying. Who knows who is right when the teacher is the highest authority in class.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 11:53 AM]

4. I will prefer a structure approach of attention from school teachers such as :-

a. After a lesson is taught and homework given, if students face any issue or problem to the lesson or homework, another day questions time to go through with students should be scheduled to allow interaction with teachers and students.

b. Periodic schedule feedback session between teacher and parents on the progress of the students should be conducted to give assurance and feedback so that steps can be taken to help the students improve.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 11:58 AM]

c. Understand that schools have students handbook that provide relevant information on login to school lesson, what uniform to wear, what activities, and portal for students of parents to post any queries etc.

That is there is a formal procedure in place to address any administrative queries of needs of parents and students.

Parents should then make use of the resources available instead of often relying on teachers to provide them the answer.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:13 PM]

5. And most of the time, why would a parent need to interact with teacher about the student homework?

6. Parents will just need to check with their son and daughter what lesson today and what homework today?

Any problem with lesson or homework, help the children to understand and finish up the homework.

If face issues cannot be resolved, take down the question and tell the child to approach their teachers the next day during school hours.

Then check with the child for progress the day after.

7. WhatsApp the teacher directly never come to our mind.

8. Yet it cultivate our kids to develop initiatives to solve the problems themselves as they grow older.

Not everything depends on parents to solve for them.

This has prevented children to rely everything on parents and teachers for small small things - and learn to find solutions for their problem.

Notice that children who are less reliance on parents to attend to all their needs - grow up to be a problem solver, ability to source solutions to problems and have more initiatives.

Not when facing problem, stay around and wait for help, parents help, teachers help - no help cannot move.

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 12:14 PM]

📢 Iswaran convicted of five charges including obtaining gifts after guilty plea

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/iswaran-trial-convicted-guilty-lesser-charges-former-transport-minister-live-4623786

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:25 PM]

9. Example if face any problem unable to solve, resourceful children will go to internet, Google search, ChatGpt, AI to look for solutions and solve it themselves.

Or discuss with classmates who are resourceful if they have such intimate friendship.

Not daddy, daddy, mummy, mummy, I don't know how to do this - help me.

Then daddy and mummy say, I also don't know how to do, ask teacher.

WhatsApp teacher, at night sleeping time never mind - solve my son problem first, teacher no need to sleep.....

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:31 PM]

10. I recall my son, feel not adequate in math when preparing for his o level, he save up his money for canteen and buy an assessment book himself - and practice the whole book. 

And gce o level - he scored A1.

I only know about this when he is doing his university.

I say, why don't you let me know you need the assessment book, I can buy for you rather than going hungry and save up to buy your own.

He told me, my own problem, I will try to solve it myself if within my means to do so.

I say 👍.

He is now a double scholar.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:32 PM]

On the other hand parents only have time after office hour.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:33 PM]

I think a lot of times parents 望子成龙，and students just want to play and enjoy life

Jun Wei, [24/9/2024 12:33 PM]

Never understood why is there any need to communicate after office hours.

Except in the event of emergency, no one should be contacting anyone after work. 

As a parent, if there is something to clarify regarding the school or kid, do it during working hours. If because of your work, you can only do it after working hours, then you need to reflect and change. Why are you making your problem other people’s problem?

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:35 PM]

My sister always just complains about her maths teacher in sec 1 that he do not understand him and half of the class failing

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:37 PM]

If this is the case, the principal will have to find out what is wrong with the teacher.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:37 PM]

And I think as parents they would also like to understand what is going on when the child failed her exams. When their child got bullied. They are anxious.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:38 PM]

But in reality no action was done lol

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:38 PM]

This should be a structure session, not everyday ping the teacher.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:40 PM]

Simple, just enrol the child to a tuition for that particular subject.

I enrol my kid to a tuition class for a particular subject when he don't do well in his test.

Pinging the teacher won't help.

Once he improve, next level, he say he don't need tuition already, he can buy assessment book and improve.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:41 PM]

Alot of problem, we can solve ourselves, pinging the teacher won't help.

It just show whether we can solve our own problem creatively or not.

Because monopolising a school teacher for our children - are unfair to other children.

We just need to solve our problem using other means.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:43 PM]

Now her grades has improved as my sister who has the teachers contact number ask about the questions she doesn't understand after school and weekends.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:44 PM]

So my stand is parents no need to know contact number but students need to know

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:44 PM]

At the expense of other students and the stress of this teacher.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:46 PM]

I mean sometimes you feel closer to a teacher when he or she made an extra effort to have a group chat with the class and discuss questions on the chat grp. 

One of the teachers also made an effort without anyone requesting to have extra online classes for the students at night.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:47 PM]

But I agree it should be a guidelines and it should be up to teachers to give their numbers to students

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:47 PM]

As teachers also need a life.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 12:49 PM]

If this teacher has capacity to go the extra mile, then it is this teacher initiatives and this teacher must know how to take care of his/her mental health.

As for the general guidelines, I agree with Moe guidelines not to release teachers handphone number to parents and students.

Also all interaction must be during school hours.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:50 PM]

I wonder if moe have a reward system that reward teachers with good kpi. For example the percentage of students pass fail and As

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:51 PM]

As I don't think tuition is a good solution

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 12:59 PM]

Kind of unfair if student needs to work 24/7 for their hw where teachers spamm hw in school holidays and after school despite long school hours and not marking the homework it in school and student cannot spamm teachers for clarification and workings. Further more some teachers don't go through the hw 

There should be a guidelines that hw should not be given if the student is expected to leave school after 4pm to be fair

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:05 PM]

Else, one day we will end up no people want to be teachers because no work life balance, salary not commensurate with the stress, and poor mental health.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:06 PM]

Yeah just like no one wants to be student.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:07 PM]

Going to school feels like going to prison, and parents behind forcing you to go forward and no study life balance

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:08 PM]

Actually there are many students who do well without the needs for high maintenance.

It is whether the students are conscientious with their study and homework and whether the students are resourceful to solve their problems.

If other students can, why some students can't?

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:11 PM]

Most important, students must be self fired to pick up knowledge and skillsets as this is their own future and their own careers.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:11 PM]

Not all student is the same. Some need more attention, need more step by step guide. For some step 1-2 is a big gap where they need step 1.2  1.5 to explain clearly. They need someone by their side to explain things bit by bit. 

And how much you can trust online materials as the correct way to the question for that syllables?

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:11 PM]

And not all student mindset is tuned to study

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:12 PM]

If not you will not see news reporting bullying in school

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:15 PM]

Bullying is another issue that need attention.

I am alarm to see students get beaten up by bullies physically.

The physical harm and mental harm is not a small issue.

Often public are not informed how the bullies are punished and deterred from future acts - so that future bullies will be hesitant to be bully.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:16 PM]

Idk how teachers actually handles bullying case

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:16 PM]

https://mothership.sg/2024/09/primary-school-bullying-video/

"Qihua Primary School student seen being kicked & punched by older youth in bullying video.

The boy could be heard saying, "It hurts," and "Sorry, I won't do it again.""

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:17 PM]

Often there's always needs a top down approach from the media, principal then teachers will made an effort to rectify.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:17 PM]

I think now cannot canned student liao right

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:18 PM]

Caning for bully should be reintroduce - and should be conducted in school assembly to instill fear and deterrence for bully.

Last time, this is done during my school times.

Also police will give talks and show videos how offenders are cane in the prison for fighting and physical assault to the whole assembly.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:23 PM]

Now I guess just counseling  then suspension and handover to police

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:25 PM]

I will suggest this steps:-

1. Reprimanding by school disciplinary master.

2. Counseling by counselor.

3. Mandatory caning in school assembly.

4. Police conduct video and talk session how bully, gangsters are cane in jail.

5. Police case.

6. Rehabilitation and constant monitoring to ensure bully repent and mend their ways.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:27 PM]

7. Also involve parents about their children as bully in the counseling session.

Parents must have accountability of their children behavior.

子女不教父母之过。

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:28 PM]

Also anonymous report

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 1:29 PM]

Often students are too timid to go to teachers as they post an higher authority

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 1:54 PM]

1. One parent told me, I see you let your son have his own initiatives to solve his own problem.

You seldom step in to interfere unless he seek help. Now I realise he is very resourceful and plan his career very well.

2. Conversely my children, everything I plan for them, give them enrichment class, pack everything for them, always need to sit besides them to supervise their homework etc.

Now they lack initiatives, don't think of future plan, less resourceful, less initiatives, everything depends on me.

My parenting methods got flaw. They become a mummy boy or mummy girl.

Your parenting methods is better.

This parent told me only a months ago.

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 2:00 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 2:03 PM]

For slower students in a particular subject, the students should enrol in a normal class rather than in an express class.

This will ensure such students can learn in a slower pace.

When the students improve and able to catch up, then they can rejoin the express class.

Getting constant personal attention from the teachers at the expense of other students and the teachers personal time is not the way to go.

Because it exact a toll on the physical and mental health of the teacher, which in turn impact the rest of the students.

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 2:34 PM]

📢 Live: Iswaran convicted of 5 charges, has paid back $380,000 to the state

https://www.straitstimes.com/live-singapore-iswaran-trial-corruption

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 2:59 PM]

Also in university or IHL, no professors or lecturers will sit side by side to teach a student.

A student will have to attend lectures, read lecture notes, do tutorial, do projects, do assignment and solve the problems.

If the students encounter problem, they form study group or discussion groups to solve homework problem.

Else they search the internet for solutions.

Every students got to show resourcefulness to resolve their problems.

Professor or lecturers are only facilitators and teach only during lecture or tutorial class.

In their own time, they are tie up with their research works and other administrative stuff.

If parents and students cannot operate in such a mode, then I afraid students will have a hard time in their careers - as bosses employ workers to solve the business problems not waiting for bosses to teach them how to solve problem or throw back problem to the bosses.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 3:52 PM]

Of course. This only applies to secondary and primary school. As IHL is adult learning liao where there's freedom.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 3:52 PM]

You no need to ask for permission to go toilet

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 3:52 PM]

Just walk out and disappear as you like

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 3:54 PM]

After all it's a guide line. Good teacher will strive to continue coach students after office hours where those that think it's just a job will not bother. Actually nothing much will change.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 3:57 PM]

Cause before this guidelines teachers also can don't give their number isn't it

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 4:00 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:03 PM]

And there's always email out there for parents to spam. As the Chinese saying 上有政策下有对策。 Those determine to get the number will get it 😂. 

As what I say both side must clap mah. Everyone needs a life. Not only teachers. Don't spam homework to students and pace yourself and discipline the class in a good manner, I think there will be no reason for parents to contact you.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 4:03 PM]

Responsibility lies on the students and the parents.

How a student want to do better is a matter of discussion between the students and the parents.

For example, I will talk to my child how is his lesson and homework, can cope?

Then if face issues, I will discuss with him what help he needs?

Eg. Write down the problem, seek help with teacher the next day during school hour. 

Then when I come home, explain to me how the problem is solve.

I want my child to take his initiative how he solve the problems on his own.

If it is a bigger problem like unable to follow the lesson, then I ask him, does he needs tuition, I then arrange tuition for him.

When I see improvement, he will tell me, no need tuition, I buy assessment book to do I can manage.

Pressuring the teacher is the furthest away from our mind, as we know it is not realistic.

Because if 40 students can manage except our own child, then it is up to ourselves to resolve our problem.

If tuition still don't help, then I will schedule a time with the teacher and the school to consider downgrading the subject for my kid from express class to normal stream to learn at a slower pace, until he can cope.

This is a responsible parent and student.

Hanny, [24/9/2024 4:03 PM]

As a parent, I can see how demanding parents are. It starts from K class to JC. 

Parents think they are entitled and send complaints to people higher up in the organization, even MOE.

First, MOE should not respond to this kind of complaints. It should be dealt at school level.

Teacher should have the authority. We cannot have teachers who are afraid of parents. I have seen that and that’s not healthy.

I like the idea of restricted hours. That would give teachers breathing space and decompress.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:05 PM]

Another thing that may help the teacher is maybe create a class WhatsApp group for parents. So they can discuss minor matters like what to wear for tmr, if their child forgets.

Hanny, [24/9/2024 4:06 PM]

Law makes it easy for teachers not to respond after hours. Expectation must be set.

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 4:08 PM]

And teachers got stress up again to be bother by parents what to wear?

Why parents cannot ask the children what to wear?

If don't know why child don't pay attention?

I thought every students have to record in student handbook?

Parents just need to do due diligence to check?

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:10 PM]

Teachers no need to care. In fact teachers no need to be in the group.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:11 PM]

Just a group for parents to discuss things just like how we discuss things here

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:11 PM]

You never see reach people interfere with our discussion

LCL (Danny 心), [24/9/2024 4:12 PM]

My experience tell me that the more protective a parent is over the child, the child potential to learn worsen.

Conversely, when we let the child manage everything on his own, as parents we just check his progress, the child do better.

In fact, never once, I and my wife sit side by side him to teach him how to do his homework.

Only when he encounter problem, then I will ask him how he intend to solve it?

And I will say ok or not ok.

I don't solve the problem for him.

This is how he grow up and become a problem solver.

And the last thing I will do is to ping his teacher.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:12 PM]

Then they will know more what's happening in the school

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:13 PM]

Especially nowadays got so many tee like uniform pe attire class tee house tee

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:13 PM]

I also confused

Hanny, [24/9/2024 4:14 PM]

Parents can create self help group to help themselves. Teachers can help organize but teacher should not be inside the group.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:14 PM]

Yes that's what I meant

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 4:18 PM]

So like say tmr is sports day what attire the class is wearing, parents can ask another parent about it if the child is in doubt. Where to report etc. As not every time report to school. There's one time I say report to stadium then parent can be suspicious lor. Not all parents read letters especially parents gateway is another thing that may annoy some parents

G, [24/9/2024 5:07 PM]

Anything less than a few years in prison is a slap on the wrist

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:12 PM]

Actually I cannot accept that a senior minister don't know about the rules

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:13 PM]

If a minister don't know the rules then he is not qualified to be in the cabinet

G, [24/9/2024 5:13 PM]

Claustrophobic 

Really need so many foreigners or not

Citizen numbers growth but birth rate drop... How many are naturalised? What's the trend over the years?

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/s-pore-population-crosses-6-million-mark

G, [24/9/2024 5:15 PM]

I cannot accept that the more serious charges were dropped for lesser ones without informing the public on the basis

G, [24/9/2024 5:16 PM]

And based on the new lowered charges, DS has the cheek to ask for no more than 8 weeks in jail

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 5:17 PM]

📢 Iswaran convicted of 5 charges, will be sentenced on Oct 3

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/iswaran-pleads-guilty-on-first-day-of-trial

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:17 PM]

I mean corruption is too much liao. Just taking tickets and gifts is corruption then private sector no one dares to give gifts to do business liao

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:18 PM]

I don't see the act as corruption. I just see the act as taking gift

G, [24/9/2024 5:19 PM]

Minister in the past with lower pay had a higher dignity of committing hari kiri when charged with corruption 

Minister charged with corruption today hire lawyer who has the cheek to ask for max 8 week jail term

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:20 PM]

Corruption is taking gift and cash for a favour. Taking gift without anything is just taking gift

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:21 PM]

I might be too naive

G, [24/9/2024 5:22 PM]

Top bad. This PAP keep painting itself as whiter than white so people naturally have higher expectation, not just to be legally right, but morally upright also.

G, [24/9/2024 5:23 PM]

If iswaran declared as per policy, don't think he would be in this mess

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:26 PM]

Exactly

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:27 PM]

So it's just some mistakes not to the point of corruption. If it charge on corruption he will not be guilty

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:27 PM]

We need to be fair

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:29 PM]

I always think on both sides. Empathy with the victim and the accuse. There's always reason why an accused is doing a crime. Not just blame and boo on the accuse but also analyse what cause him to do this and improve on system or find a solution to prevent others and him for doing it again.

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:33 PM]

I find that whenever someone commit a crime the first reaction is always served him right/ sentence too light, but no one thinks of why is the reason of doing it.

 In this case he claims that he don't know the rules. So does that mean to take a test of the rules in order to become a minister? Or a qualifying election candidate?

Jun Ming, [24/9/2024 5:37 PM]

Election department good idea right

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 6:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 6:46 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [24/9/2024 7:01 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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