REACH 534 - What are your views on the Code of Conduct for public servants in relation to accepting gifts? What more can we do to ensure that public servants in Singapore are not unduly influenced or face a conflict of interest in the course of their work?
(SK)
06 Feb 2024 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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Welcome back! π
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Megan π
6/2/24, 10:00 am - +REACH: π’ *Topic* π’
On 5th February, Minister-in-charge of the public service Chan Chun Sing said in a Parliamentary reply that public officers must never ask for gifts or favours, especially when they are in a position to influence or affect any decision involving the other party.
In response to a supplementary question whether the code of conduct should be reviewed, Mr Chan said that the rules are meant to keep public officers from being compromised but should not be too onerous.
π *What are your views on the Code of Conduct for public servants in relation to accepting gifts? What more can we do to ensure that public servants in Singapore are not unduly influenced or face a conflict of interest in the course of their work?*
π _*Public Service Code of Conduct for gifts*_.
Public servants cannot ask for gifts or favours, especially when they are in a position to influence or affect decisions involving the other party. They must also not accept gifts offered on account of their official position or work. "Our first instinct must be to decline any unsolicited gifts and return them if possible,” said Minister Chan.
He added: “If it is not possible or practical to reject gifts, public servants must declare and account for the gifts according to established processes. They may be allowed to keep a gift if they pay for it, after its value is assessed.
For operational simplicity, they can keep gifts worth less than $50 without paying if doing so does not affect the integrity of the civil service.”
π _*Review of the Code of Conduct in light of Mr Iswaran’s on-going case*_
When asked if there was going to be a review of the code of conduct, Minister Chan urged against a “knee-jerk reaction” to immediately tighten or add more rules. He listed three considerations:
1️⃣ If rules are clear, but were flouted or ignored then action needs to be taken against the offender, rather than adjusting the rules.
2️⃣ If rules are unclear, then the rules should be clarified and simplified. Minister Chan noted that not every grey area can be clarified, and a judgment call will still be required for some matters.
3️⃣ If rules are too lax, or the case involves a new situation not covered by the rules, then the rules should be updated.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/askst-what-gifts-can-public-servants-accept-chan-chun-sing-clarifies-code-of-conduct
π https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/public-service-rules-gifts-corruption-iswaran-mp-allowance-4099856
π https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/chan-chun-sing-checks-and-balances-public-service-amid-charges-against-s-iswaran-4099761
6/2/24, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group
6/2/24, 10:02 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description
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6/2/24, 10:18 am - +Frankie Wee: How about public servants lottery strike will accept it? (example Toto strike $5m)
6/2/24, 10:18 am - +Frankie Wee: π
6/2/24, 10:24 am - +Timothy Low: if strike Toto $5 million, just quit the job already
6/2/24, 10:27 am - +Frankie Wee: Exactly
6/2/24, 10:27 am - +Frankie Wee: Nothing is favour integrated
6/2/24, 10:40 am - +Smiley face: 1st happiness....
6/2/24, 10:40 am - +Smiley face: 2nd happiness...
6/2/24, 10:40 am - +Thank You: It is happy to serve ppl especially at MPS meet the ppl session.
6/2/24, 10:42 am - +Smiley face: Yes! HAPPINESS OF ALL.....TO SERVE AND GIVE BACK MORE !
6/2/24, 10:42 am - +Thank You: The smile, happiness and greatfulnrsd in their eyes when they received your help/assistance no money can buy.
6/2/24, 10:44 am - +Smiley face: Let's start to list the Code of Conduct?
6/2/24, 10:47 am - +Thank You: For business wise like sending hampers, oranges π etc is a culture but be mindful as a “PUBLIC SERVANT” no amount of anything or everything is acceptable.
A hand written thank you card is more than enough.
6/2/24, 10:50 am - +Rama: What is the current for civil servants, MP, Ministers and the head of state!?
6/2/24, 10:51 am - +Frankie Wee: Only superior seek approval by ministers.
6/2/24, 10:51 am - +Rama: So, superior decides for subordinates! ?
6/2/24, 10:51 am - +Frankie Wee: Mr Iswaran LOA without reason and didn’t inform his duty on behalf the gift or favour
6/2/24, 10:52 am - +Rama: Unacceptable lapse!
6/2/24, 10:52 am - +Frankie Wee: That’s why he is never rule and integrity
6/2/24, 10:52 am - +Rama: Micro management will kill the civil service and government!
6/2/24, 10:53 am - +Frankie Wee: After that LHL was shocked by CIPB
6/2/24, 10:53 am - +Rama: First time for most issues!
6/2/24, 10:53 am - +Frankie Wee: he is failed public servants on his duty an minister
6/2/24, 10:54 am - +Frankie Wee: Believe he will going to charge 27
6/2/24, 10:54 am - +Rama: His precedence is greater than Teh Cheang Wan!
6/2/24, 10:54 am - +Rama: Will know after all appeals is exhausted
6/2/24, 10:55 am - +Frankie Wee: Wonder why he didn’t want report π€π€π€
6/2/24, 11:00 am - +Frankie Wee: The same company by customer sent a gift or hamper
All of staffs no one is touch or bring home without informed. Staffs should be share fairly
6/2/24, 11:01 am - +Thank You: <Media omitted>
6/2/24, 11:07 am - +SL: Continue AI data analysis to highlight red flags on goods and services received more than $50 without reporting for further action?
6/2/24, 11:09 am - +SL: After reporting it to HR and management, let HR decide according to protocol where these harper should go
6/2/24, 11:14 am - +SL: ζ 欲εε…
6/2/24, 11:39 am - +Jimmy Chew: Don't quit. There's nothing to do with so much money hahaha. Continue working and make changes at the workplace and f$&+ the upper management when the implement something stupid <This message was edited>
6/2/24, 11:43 am - +Frankie Wee: Can be start own business or retired
Those who value to stay public servants.
6/2/24, 12:42 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*
We want to *HEAR MORE* from you!
π *What are your views on the Code of Conduct for public servants in relation to accepting gifts? What more can we do to ensure that public servants in Singapore are not unduly influenced or face a conflict of interest in the course of their work?*
We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion *related to the topic* robust and active!
Megan π
6/2/24, 12:50 pm - +Smiley face: 6 February, 2024
"Greed - model, moral and mosaic?"
(ζ£εΈΈεεδΊΊδΈΊ)
"Humankind are creature of habits. One good practice of governance has been established, a set rules of engagement or its called the code of conduct for all civil servants bottom to top. If needs to refresh, it needs not be a complex and lengthy statement of Do & Don't; it should reflect in key words so that all people will comprehend and remember by heart. It's that simple - let's keep it short and sweet! After all, we all know what is right and what is wrong."
- - anonymity
6/2/24, 1:10 pm - +Smiley face: On the future of excellence governance, one consideration is to form "Committee of Appropriations" within the civil service to decentralise, encouraging and empowering leadership at all levels to take on the duties, responsibilities and ethos of a Whiter than White, robust, resilience and trusted services for our People & our SG....
6/2/24, 1:13 pm - +Smiley face: "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude."
- - Thomas Jefferson, 3rd POTUS (4/3/1801 - 4/3/1809)
6/2/24, 1:15 pm - +Suma pamu: Not realted But very important.
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/hdb-resale-prices-jump-15-january-amid-strong-volumes-srx-99co
6/2/24, 1:16 pm - +Bhavani: public servants accepting monetary gifts and environmentally unsustainable gifts sets a bad environmental precedent as ordinary Singaporeans might become more materialistic as well. If we want a clean and green environment not just locally but globally as well, we must discourage monetary and environmentally unsustainable gifts
6/2/24, 1:18 pm - +Rama: So, the pending wage adjustment upwards for ministers is no guarantee that there will be no future corruption even though coming close to the private sector!?
6/2/24, 1:25 pm - +Suma pamu: Based on his observations, the 74 million-dollar resale flat transactions
6/2/24, 1:25 pm - +Suma pamu: “Many sellers are pushing the boundary by asking more for their HDB resale flat. A 3NG (New Generation) flat at Tiong Poh Road is asking S$1.99 million, and a couple of executive masionette flats at Bishan Street 22 are priced from S$1.9 million,” he observed.
In a similar vein, ERA
6/2/24, 1:53 pm - +Smiley face: When prices increase, all complaints are up too....
When prices decrease, no complain nor compliment too....
When prices are stagnant...all complaining will start....
6/2/24, 1:54 pm - +Smiley face: What if there are rooms for price increase, let's say another 40% upwards! How?
6/2/24, 1:54 pm - +Suma pamu: This is not Sustainable Growth!!
With MSR some one paying 600k for 4rm in punggol, How are they able to afford?
As we assume 5rms are going up becz of Downgraders!
A dangerous signal.
6/2/24, 1:54 pm - +Smiley face: $1.99 becomes $2.50 !
6/2/24, 1:56 pm - +Smiley face: Ok, let it know once and all...
Affordable housings in all big cities of thrive are harder to attain.... why?
6/2/24, 1:56 pm - +Suma pamu: I hope HDB will bring out CLEAR DATA how many PRs/who actually buying, recently...whom able to afford this kind of super high prices with MSR.
6/2/24, 1:57 pm - +Suma pamu: We dont compare HDB with any other thing
Hdb is subsidized housing.. which is lease hold...
So lets not comoare HDB with other cities and Prices etc etx
6/2/24, 1:57 pm - +Smiley face: The ideal economic structure is a perfect condition whereby every increase in one commodity will cause a similar increase on the next three to five varieties of tangible.... that's perfect condition
6/2/24, 1:57 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. I feel that the current code of conduct is already quite stringent and quite clear about soliciting gifts or accepting gifts by public servants.
I concur with the view not to do a "knee jerk reaction" to further tighten the code of conduct - as it will stifle and prevent the public servants from carrying out their work - to serve the public, and may fall into the traps of "witch hunt".
2. Public servants cannot solicit gifts or ask for gifts in exchange for favor - this is very clear, no ambiguity.
3. Vendors may during festive seasons eg. New year, Chinese new year, Christmas, mooncake festivals etc send gifts like bak kwa, moon cakes, christmas present etc deliver presents to the public servants or the whole department -- which according to current prices and inflation will have exceeded $50.
Either public servants reject - by forking out transport and delivery charges to return the gifts ---or put it in the pantry to be shared by the whole department or share across departments or division ---- which will then reduce the more than $50 to 1 department (eg. 10 person --- will be less than $50 per person --- and will not infringe the code of conduct for accepting gifts).
Another grey area:-
A public officer may be hospitalised due to work or other reasons - and vendors send fruits or get well parcel (such as tonics etc) to officer in hospital bed or at home - that sometimes can exceed $50.
Public officer send back the fruits or tonics - fork out own transport or delivery charge and look "rude"? Or share the fruits or tonics with his/her department or divisions (but the fruits will get rotten, or the tonics - nobody else want to consume - as it meant for sick person).
The best is for public officer to declare to the HR or if the division can help to consume the fruits or tonics - then no need to declare.
4. Sometimes, there is a need to attend meetings or site survey together with vendors - and need transport to go to some very ulu places.
Vendors may offer to "tumpang" the public servants that may exceed $50, as the survey may go from one place to another place.
I feel that in the spirit of the code of conduct ---- this should not have infringe the code - as these are necessities and part and parcel of public work - that benefits public and public services (else taxpayers will have to pay for the cab fees or private hire fees).
Come back to private planes to attend overseas meeting - if a billionaire offer a free ride on his/her plane to go for the same meeting.
(In the spirit of the code, should the public officers accept the free ride on the same plane or the public officers use taxpayers money to book an airline flight costing eg. more than $1,000?) - definitely more than $50.
This fall into a grey area - and should this constitute public work - like vendor "tumpang" public servants in a private car going for meetings or site survey?
If there is a public outcry or "witch hunt" in the open - then public officers will scramble to use taxpayers' money to book cab, private hire or buy airline tickets - to prevent from being implicated as being "corrupt".
5. Vendors organise Big Tech events to share new technologies - that can be deployed for Public Service, Trade Fairs, Aeroshows, MICE etc -- and throw in hearty lunch, dinner, snacks, door gifts, lucky draws, winning prize by with correct answers for questions in events.
Another grey areas - as public service officers should attend such Big Tech events, trade fairs, MICE, aeroshows etc --- as the public officers will need to procure such products, services, network with business people, vendors, business partners etc.
Also cannot be - organisers specifically arrange "Food Court chef, or hawker chef" - to prepare less than $50 food such as chicken rice, char kway teow, png chai, nasi goreng, keraba, murtabe, nasi lemak etc for public servants only - to meet the code of conduct of $50 per day?
It will look very "obiang" when commercial visitors enjoying hearty lunch, dinner, snack make by 5 star hotel chef that cost > $50.
While our public servants, poor thing must sit in 1 corner - dining on hawker centre, food court or kopitiam food of < $50 ?
So this is another grey area - in the spirit of the code of conduct of < $50 gift.
6. To summarise the long story short, the spirit of the code of conduct against corruption for public servants must be one that :-
a. Never solicit or ask for gift - even < $50 should be avoided.
b. If vendors offer gifts such as consumables like bak kwa, moon cakes, fruits, tonics etc (but more than $50 - either declare or share with department or division)
c. Attending Big Tech events, trade fairs, seminars, MICE etc organise by vendors - throwing 5 class hotel lunch, snacks, lunch --- even > $50 - should not infringe the code of conducts.
For door gifts, present, award etc < $50 - can keep. But exceeding the values, declare to HR or don't accept.
d. Vendors "tumpang" public officers in private cars to meeting, survey sites etc - < or > $50 - should not have infringe code of conduct similar to seminars.
e. Private jets "tumpang" for same meetings with tycoons --- declare to HR.
6/2/24, 1:58 pm - +Smiley face: Some cities are leasehold too....not nice to pinpoint these cities.
6/2/24, 2:00 pm - +REACH: π’ *Topic* π’
6/2/24, 2:03 pm - +Rama: If stringent,why this lapse!?
6/2/24, 2:04 pm - +Rama: Not hopeful
6/2/24, 2:04 pm - +Suma pamu: May be, But its irrelevant, Hdd policy is roof over head!
I am wondering if some one able to buy 700-800k HDB resale, with MSR thier salaries are abv Median Avg incomes. So what about the ones with lower than that avg
Even with Resake grants, can they able to afford...
N frankly i know very well the current prices are created by Just MOP hdbs which infact is Bubble ... Now started getting rippled ..we are seeing old HDBs too going very high prices.
Soon Hdb may end up announcing 500-600K 4rm BTO in punggolπ
As after seeing number of transactions with 600k price tag
6/2/24, 2:05 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That's why got caught and now kenna charge.
6/2/24, 2:06 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/2/24, 2:07 pm - +Smiley face: The beginning of mixing 'white with black' and 'grey' appears in front of your eyes and your mind will wonder if it's ok or guilty to accept expensive gifts from people who are not your loved ones nor your close relations.
6/2/24, 2:13 pm - +Rama: One can only tightened so much!
6/2/24, 2:18 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes.
Else public officers cannot even move.
ε―Έζ₯ιΎθ‘。
6/2/24, 2:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Level move income higher match dollar to inflation purchase and saving then make it affordable
6/2/24, 2:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://blog.seedly.sg/median-gross-income-occupation/
6/2/24, 2:45 pm - +Smiley face: Thanks for the data ...looks like the 40-44 age group's strongest income earners.
6/2/24, 2:46 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, the key is to elevate income above the rate of inflation (after normalization)
6/2/24, 3:03 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
What happen if the same ruler also apply to private commercial sectors?
Same code of conduct similar to public sectors?
Any hoo-haa?
6/2/24, 3:05 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Cannot be one set of rules for public officers - consider corruption.
Another set of rules for private commercial officers no corruption.
Isn't it?
I always go at the angle of same empathy - stand in one another's shoes. <This message was edited>
6/2/24, 3:07 pm - +Smiley face: The second dividend of demography is perhaps age 35-50, these spenders are the drivers of our domestic economy. And are they 45% of the total labor force in this case the 2nd dividend? Is this true?
6/2/24, 3:07 pm - +Smiley face: To make things even clearer, perhaps it would be relevant to spell into all contracts the rules of gifts and incentives and what constituent breach of contract, the code of conduct of the civil service and contractors, and penalty....
6/2/24, 3:23 pm - +Terrie Wong: For large commercial co's, similar rules against accepting expensive gifts apply.
- One year, when I was with a large US MNC, we were forbidden to receive mooncakes which our distributors normally present us salespeople during the festival.
- We were told that we could eat the mooncakes when offered but not accept them as gifts!
6/2/24, 3:33 pm - +Smiley face: unlike ordinary gifts of thanks which is substantially norm in terms of ordinary value versus the extraordinary value where the earlier example of a high value gifts always and almost has its market value to benchmark and reference....
6/2/24, 3:53 pm - +~.@: my take on the issue is that the rules are already in place, and if the rules are clear and appropriate, keep it and work on the enforcement and detection. because if someone wants to be corrupted, they will have their means to circumvent the rules or to prevent detection.
how can we better detect the onset of a potential bribery? how do we discourage our public service officers from taking gifts? is there a whistle blowing policy in place? Assuming that Iswaran is guilty, the real question is why did it take so long for it to surface?
6/2/24, 3:55 pm - +Rama: Ownself check ownself, covet ownself!
6/2/24, 4:00 pm - +REACH: π’ *Topic* π’
6/2/24, 4:08 pm - +Smiley face: The higher the value of a Contract and the multilayered structure of a big project will have higher risks of taking bribes, receiving incentives such as small angpow or vacation trip or hamper within a money hamper.
All of these patterns of incentivisation are subject to improvisation at both the giving end and the receiving ends.
So it's a question of conscience vs temptation vs other psychological challenges in most cases at the receivers end!
6/2/24, 4:15 pm - +Smiley face: Next is the pattern of passing the parcel!
I pass over this project and let you bid....next bidding let me bid.
Pls bid higher this project so that when my turns come, I will do the same...
We see each other in @Antwerp or @Vienna to settle our benefits....?
6/2/24, 4:21 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Oh, 1st time I realize even private sector follow such practices.
Then suddenly something come to my mind.
Those gift shops, η€Όθ business that pack abalone, xo, brandy, expensive foodstuffs - will go into trouble.
But I notice this isn't the case.
Private sectors seems to go on the habit to go for large orders to provide gifts during year end or CNY to give it to their business partners wor... <This message was edited>
6/2/24, 4:23 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Wonder gift shops will close shops soon.... ,π€
6/2/24, 4:23 pm - +Smiley face: In the world of business....the best and most POWERFUL gifts are MONEY!
there is a saying, "you don't need to crack your mind to choose the gifts, you let your clients choose what he or she needs!"
6/2/24, 4:25 pm - +Smiley face: How to crack this Cheat & Collude game?
You Collide it ! And one of the unintended consequences is less corruption or incentivising.
6/2/24, 4:25 pm - ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So that means we will be killing one sector very soon - they have to close shops....
6/2/24, 4:25 pm - +Smiley face: The dynamic of markets
6/2/24, 4:26 pm - +Smiley face: You cannot do it, others will do even bigger than you!
6/2/24, 4:26 pm - +Smiley face: How do you play up prices from stocks to staples?
6/2/24, 4:27 pm - +Smiley face: You collate and collide it ! That's one trick of policymaking...?
6/2/24, 4:45 pm - +Smiley face: The Mosaic of behaviors?
The beginners of acquisitive behavior is stress, anxiety, depress, despair of individuals psychology at work, at home and out of home, and in moments of solitude. These momentum of behavioral including emotional (EQ) aspects of thoughts and past experiences will shape any individual from good to bad and turning ugly moments of temptation and the degree of acquisitiveness...
6/2/24, 6:06 pm - +JC: Min Chan is right. They should make him PM.
6/2/24, 6:39 pm - +Rama: Cotton comes from sheep!?
6/2/24, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
6/2/24, 6:54 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted
6/2/24, 6:54 pm - +Smiley face: 6 February, 2024
"Greed: Model, Moral and Mosaic?"
(ζ£εΈΈεεδΊΊδΈΊ)
"Humankind are creature of habits. One good practice of governance has been established, a set rules of engagement or its called the code of conduct for all civil servants bottom to top. If needs to refresh, it needs not be a complex and lengthy statement of Do & Don't; it should reflect in key words so that all people will comprehend and remember by heart. It's that simple - let's keep it short and sweet! After all, we all know what is right and what is wrong."
- - anonymity
Model?
The causation of Greed can be divided into two forms of Gratification, one can be Instant while the next can be Delayed. Both G factors have their sequential and consequential, effects and impacts on individuals behavior and the actions of the guilty parties. When an individual is facing moment of temptations or conflict of choices or even decision of accepting gifts especially gifts of high value unlike ordinary gifts of thanks which is substantially norm in terms of ordinary value versus the extraordinary value where the earlier example of a high value gifts always and almost has its market value to benchmark and reference.
The beginning of mixing 'white with black' and 'grey' appears in front of your eyes and your mind will wonder if it's ok or guilty to accept expensive gifts from people who are not your loved ones nor your close relations. To make things even clearer, perhaps it would be relevant to spell into all contracts the rules of gifts and incentives and what constituent breach of contract, the code of conduct of the civil service and contractors, and penalty.
On the future of excellence governance, one consideration is to form "Committee of Appropriations" within the civil service to decentralise, encouraging and empowering leadership at all levels to take on the duties, responsibilities and ethos of a Whiter than White, robust, resilience and trusted services for our People & our SG.
Moral & Ethics?
So what are the ways to judge fairly the value of gifts and to accept an appropriate gift from your colleague, your bosses, your friend or your supplier? Why spouse or relatives are not included in this metric of appropriation of gifts that encircle the moral and the ethics of people to people and the expression of gratitudes or appreciatiing from one to the others. What is appropriate and how to quantify and qualify? How much is more than enough, what are the limits and the grey areas, and the redl light for wrongs?
"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude."
- - Thomas Jefferson, 3rd POTUS (4/3/1801 - 4/3/1809)
Moral Compass?
The complexity of the human brain and the functions of sense and sensibility encompass the morality of a human. Itself, the behavioral patterns whether its sequential or disruptive or abruptive. Perhaps, the brain, the nature of individuals innate DNA from previous two generations or 20-50 years lineage or cultivated character from young age will be the sole beacon to shine upon humankind attitudes, beliefs and acceptance of gratification. If so gratifying, change in behaviors and the growing appetite of acquisitive; all accelerating to the end of the game, that's corruption in the making and in practice.
The Mosaic of behaviors?
The beginners of acquisitive behavior is stress, anxiety, depress, despair of individuals psychology at work, at home and out of home, and in moments of solitude. These momentum of behavioral including emotional (EQ) aspects of thoughts and past experiences will shape any individual from good to bad and turning ugly moments of temptation and the degree of acquisitiveness.
The consistent conflicting and the constant combating of the self and the conscious mind and the end result of the conscience succumb to the unconscious negative behaviors of humankind; internalising, either intentional or unintentional. That's the basic human instinct when given the opportunity or facing challenge of the daily lives to the longer roadmap and the moral compass of a human lifetime.
- - in progress - -
6/2/24, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
6/2/24, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group
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