REACH 421 - Do you think you will have enough funds saved up for retirement? How have you also changed your saving habits in anticipation of retirement?
(SK)
18 Jan 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 18/01/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
[9:59 am, 18/01/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Singaporeans should be able to meet their basic retirement needs as long as they work and make regular Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, even as it becomes more difficult to consistently build up their retirement savings amid disruptions and volatility in the economy and their lives, said Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday.
π¬ Do you think you will have enough funds saved up for retirement? How have you also changed your saving habits in anticipation of retirement?
Not everyone will benefit equally from these changes. Those with the right skills will be able to seize emerging opportunities while others may be unable to adapt, he said, and this will naturally create anxieties, especially among older, mid-career workers who have a very real fear of being made obsolete.
Mr Wong noted that the CPF system, premised on self-reliance and work, has evolved over the years, with the Government playing an increasingly larger role in recent years to help Singaporeans earn and save more for retirement.
Employers must also step up their investment in training that leads to recognised, verifiable credentials, as well as more innovative training programmes, including work-based learning options that lead to better employment and earnings outcomes.
There is also a need to improve labour market information and strengthen labour market intermediaries, so that there can be better matching of jobs and workers.
Mr Wong added: “We also want to provide workers with access to their own data on their skills and competencies, as well as the areas of future industry demand and growth, so that workers can be empowered and take greater responsibility to plan their own careers.”
ππΌ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/govt-working-on-ensuring-basic-retirement-needs-met-boost-skills-and-training-ecosystem-dpm-wong
ππΌ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/work-longer-healthy-lawrence-wong-paul-tambyah-training-3209191
ππΌ https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/lawrence-wong-workers-3208901
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[10:13 am, 18/01/2023] +L: Very hard to say... who knows what they will need in retirement. What'
[10:13 am, 18/01/2023] +L: What's important is to know what the safety nets are, and that health care is covered.
[10:14 am, 18/01/2023] +L: Also, rent and/or maintenance on your home. etc.
[10:15 am, 18/01/2023] +L: We are living longer as a nation, so I guess we need to work longer too... but for the individual this isn't a very exciting prospect! No guarantee any of us will live longer, but we are all guaranteed to have to work longer.
[10:29 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: High Hdb price and foreigners are to make sg work harder in turn increase GDP and land valuation thus u know and I know hahaha only benefit not sure who :)
[10:31 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: Maybe I the only one not benefit from all sg policies
[10:31 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: :((
[10:43 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: Once gdp increase and wage not increase mean ur real wage not increase mean u not enough for retirement .
[10:44 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: When open door mean wages will be depress to market value as cheaper wages due to influe of cheaper worker thus in turn only boss benefit not sg worker .
[10:45 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: I think ppl will say boss give job better than jobless right . I think this one need to see how ppl define
[10:48 am, 18/01/2023] +Rama: As MAS MD Ravi Menon mentioned last year, bosses must wake up that no such thing as cheap labour in Singapore anymore. Any wage package and benefits mustvbe current for inflation and costs of living!
[10:51 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: So one thing that makes me curious is that they keep going on about upskilling Singaporean yet why are PRs included in the skills future benefits?
[10:51 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: I just heard a Malaysian fresh grad just got EP for 3k+ not sure what talent can they bring in :))
[10:55 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: Cheap labour.
[10:58 am, 18/01/2023] +Tan Kay Eng: Dpm said helping 50+to early 60~~ is 64 consider ed??
[11:03 am, 18/01/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: if we rely only on CPF contributions for retirement needs alone, it will not definitely not be enough because real inflation costs (ie: price of chicken rice, wanton noodles, canned drinks, electricity/water, bus fares) are going up faster than CPF interest rates.
the only way for CPF funds to work for retirement is, if it is put into something that rises with real inflation. in our current context, HDB flat.
eg: use CPF to buy an HDB with an extra room or 2 to be able to rent out. generally rentals go up with inflation.
[11:16 am, 18/01/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: or hopefully change policy to allow seniors older than 65(?) to be able to lease granny flat and rent out their whole flat to fund granny flat lease. the extra would be able to fund their retirement.
[11:20 am, 18/01/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: current schemes like lease/buy back schemes, kill the "golden goose". the ability to rent out the "nest egg" will ensure that there are funds for the individual as long as they live and they won't rely on any government handouts.
[11:22 am, 18/01/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: government also continues to get contribution for nation bulidng via property tax. win win for all.
[11:26 am, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Precisely the most important is IP MediShield health is the MOST IMPORTANT. However do not know who in the world came up with from 100% coverage to only 95%.
I had been a care giver to a few and hence am speaking from there. Govt can change the SSD (seller stamp duty) for Private housing from 3yrs to 4yrs and back to 3yrs and hence I urge the GOVT to change back to 100%. As well as the medication eligible for claims. My sis is a late stage ovarian cancer and thank god it’s been 11yrs the oncologist attending to her Lim Hwee Yong shared the importance too
[11:28 am, 18/01/2023] +Shaun: Who is eligible for SkillsFuture Credits?
The SkillsFuture Credits are only available to Singaporeans aged 25 and above. New Singapore citizens aged 25 and above will also be eligible for the SkillsFuture Credits once they have received their citizenship.
Permanent Residents (PRs) are not eligible for SkillsFuture Credits.
[11:30 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: The credits is nothing compared to the thousands in funding
[11:31 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: Most importantly how many of the course are useful ? In the end employer only see cost and paper certification or past experience
[11:32 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: The degree programmes are definitely useful
[11:32 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: Degree are not upgrading course in my point of view
[11:32 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: Degree are paper certified
[11:32 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: SkillsFuture Mid-Career Enhanced Subsidy
SC aged 40 and above who are pursuing approved SkillsFuture courses with SUSS will enjoy a subsidy of up to 90%. The availability of the SkillsFuture Mid-Career Enhanced Subsidy will be tied to a SC student's eligibility for the approved courses. Hence, a SC student must be eligible for the approved SkillsFuture courses in order to be eligible for the enhanced subsidy.
With this enhanced subsidy, SC students aged 40 and above (to be counted based on the year which he/she turns 40 years old) will pay course fees that are up to 90% lower than the standard subsidised fees payable by other SC/PR students who are below 40 years old.
Below is an example of how the fees are computed for a SUSS course for a SC/PR aged below 40 and a SC aged 40 and above:
[11:33 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: depends. For example if you're not an engineer working in an engineering field, getting a diploma and then a degree part time is definitely upgrading
[11:33 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: I see so many of the PRs going this route in my firm
[11:34 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: All subsidized by Singaporean money
[11:34 am, 18/01/2023] +KL: So I thgt I imagining things so is true Ah
[11:35 am, 18/01/2023] +Frankie Wee: Future CPF fund need $500k set aside for retirement
[11:35 am, 18/01/2023] +Frankie Wee: Inflation all time high
[11:42 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: ERS for my generation definitely about $500k.
Should'nt be hard to hit though.
[11:46 am, 18/01/2023] +Frankie Wee: https://newacademyoffinance.com/full-retirement-sum-2022/
[11:47 am, 18/01/2023] +Frankie Wee: I don’t have this kind $500k where can I find a salary $10k per monthly
[11:47 am, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Hopefully not yet kick the bucket
[11:48 am, 18/01/2023] +TD: dun need 10k. 7k with AWS can hit @65. not at 55.
[0:19 pm, 18/01/2023] +Sh Koh: Is not abt hitting the.FRS. it.is just not enough with the payout.. In future.. govt needs to find Working is not just an option by then.
[0:27 pm, 18/01/2023] +65 9226 2477: The longer one works, the younger ones may not get a chance to replace or step into the vocation unless new economy or jobs are created. If combine this with a shrinking demand, it'll be bleak for future young workers.
[0:56 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Good afternoon everyone!
'How to 'stomach' these challenges (εΊζ¬ηζ΄»θ΄Ή) ?"
[1:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Lol but you no need eat or pay rent arh
[1:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +65 9023 8025: Sad… if you work in singapore and covert to MYR can la
[1:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Compound interest over long periods. Without top-up SA along will be nearly 400k. Go do the math.
[1:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: 18 January, 2023
Private - Public Pool (PPP)?
Every $1.0 billion put into investment that yields 4% annually will derive a GROSS income of $40 million. The mandate of this investment is prudent and not overly aggressive in the search for Yield! Our targeted income dispersal of this population is up to 1 million citizens (33% beneficiaries) and hopefully it generates efficiently from $2000 to $5,000 cash in monthly payouts, and the most needy people will receive the maximum amount subject to 2 per household (2 x $5,000).
If in multiples of billions of dollars pooled into a fund. Perhaps, this sizable annually earned income will supplement our poor, or disabled and unable and ageing people of all age groups.
A peace of mind for the suffering people and t…
[1:19 pm, 18/01/2023] +65 9106 3752: No, at this rate, I do have increased worries about retirement sufficiency and employment progression oportunities.
Yes, I have, and welcome suggestions to save better.
[1:19 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Well, all these MOM had “statistics”
[1:22 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: I knew a Philippine was paid 6K as an IT however eventually MOM dun approve after his contract ended
[1:25 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Government quietly reduced foreign quota
[1:25 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Plenty of Indian/Pinoy/Malaysians in GLCs being paid 7-8K.
I worked in a department of 20 once with exactly 4 Singaporeans
[1:26 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Not quietly.. it has been happening… before covid
[1:26 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: And this was a GLC
[1:28 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: i also say the same but ppl say not true lol
[1:28 pm, 18/01/2023] +Jeremiah Wee: That's a startling figure! Compounding really does work wonders
[1:29 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Prior to every GE
[1:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Change after GE
[1:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I see . Cos i thgt i see ghost if u never insert this comment
[1:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: ππ€·♂️π³
[1:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Not really.. maybe there is shrinking jobs at white collar.. then they reduce so singaporean gets the job
[1:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: π€·♂️
[1:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Are u sure ?
[1:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +Jeremiah Wee: For every foreigner that's brought in, a Singaporean should be able to do the job. Instead of counting the number of EP issued, we should also track how many Singaporeans managed to take over the job scope of the EP holder, and how long it took.
[1:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Agree
[1:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: FResh grad wor
[1:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: EP is getting really much harder to get
[1:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Fresh grad wor
[1:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Yes
[1:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: My vendors are complaining their workers are getting harder to keep
[1:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: As they can’t renew the EP
[1:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Indirectly forced to source locally
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: the recent Ep must be ghost
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: π€·♂️
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: You need to have the job first…
When no choice they have to take local.. not always ideal if local can’t do the job as well π
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Or don’t stay long
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: EP and S Pass is getting harder. S Pass quota and currently S Pass for experience staffs is minimally $4,500. It is forcing company to look for local BUT there is no local to take up. I find some local applicants very entitled . They are no hungry anymore
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Agree
[1:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Yes
[1:35 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I think 3K plus ba .
[1:35 pm, 18/01/2023] +Jeremiah Wee: Probably also track the salary difference between an EP and SG worker who took the role, so that we can get a more meaningful measure of skill transference and corporate agility.
Are we just hiring from overseas just to plug a temporary gap, or really having different EP here on rotation?
[1:35 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: tiagong 3K plus get Ep
[1:35 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Nope, if you look at MOM , it is moving to $4,5K upon renewal
[1:36 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Not totally about pay sometimes…
You can pay a foreigner same for 3 to 4 years… they might not change job so easily…
For local increment… bye bye next year
[1:36 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: No increment”
[1:36 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: This is applicable to Malaysia who never work in Singapore, a fresh graduate
[1:37 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I waiting for this so i not dreaming or see ghost
[1:37 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Heng not ghost
[1:37 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: We try to assess a Malaysia for WP with 12 experience , he is allowed for EP if we pay him $8 K
[1:37 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I dont think is fair hor
[1:38 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Decided not too ... BUT no local and we are seriously shortage of staffs and impacting the business
[1:39 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: 18 January, 2023
How to start pooling?
Starting FY 2025 to FY 2030.
A portion of the annual President's Charity and other high profile events will go towards this fund raising exercise.
How about me?
Individual tax payer will pay from $10 to $100 based on assessed annually IR8A.
How about them?
SME & local Corporations
Contributions from $500 to $500,000 based on their tiny 'percentage' of the taxable profits.
Exception for foreign companies/ corporations; they are welcome and encourage to contribute as a goodwill to the community towards this meaningful social cause.
How about G?
Government will match one for one or half for one ratio to reach a sizeable pool of money.
Yes, 'using what we have and what we are good at' that is our GIC and Temasek ar…
[1:40 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: The passes are peg to expected local pay and experience to force company to look at local. WP and S Pass do have levy which is not economicall
[1:40 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: If dealing with business we see the issue.. normal people on the ground can’t see those issue
[1:40 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: if really not exonomical than wont have so many in SG la
[1:40 pm, 18/01/2023] +Jeremiah Wee: Agree that it's secondary, though I feel that the transfer of skills here is impt for SG to progress. Our current metric of using EP pay to determine whether we can bring someone in should change.
Its a broad stroke, but Id prefer punitive measures on the company should they fail to get a local to handle the work in the next 2 or 3 years.
[1:41 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Don’t even think local can get so high pay… they peg it based on what? π
[1:42 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: U see carreer future 6 -14K
[1:42 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: 6K is local 14 K expat lor
[1:43 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: If we move out of low wage worker model… in the near future still not possible
[1:43 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: From the business standpoint. We have jobs but no local or enough workforce. So how to expand or pay staffs ? For S Pass , we need around 7 to 8 Singaporean to support. So it is a issue and that's why Singaporean is feeling entitled.
[1:43 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I never aks to move out of low wage model but it not fair to local to ope gate to non local so easily
[1:44 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Until blue collar we have singaporean happily working in it… meaning the pay is enough..
which for now still long way to go
[1:44 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: The percentage i say is actually from White collar job
[1:45 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Blue collar means hard work under the sun. Any local want to work in Engineering or Shipyard ? None
[1:45 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Construction as well
[1:45 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π€£
[1:45 pm, 18/01/2023] +Jeremiah Wee: If you pay a white collared job pay, I feel that people won't mind
[1:45 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I don’t mind if you pay me well enough π
[1:46 pm, 18/01/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:
CPF is not enough to meet retirement requirements:
1. the older generation had high Cpf contributions of 50%.
Which means for every month a person works, he can expect to retire 1 mth before he expires with a half- pay.
If a perosn expects to live 80 years, he can work 30 years (assume he starts working at 20) and retire at 50. He can retire with half-month of his 30-yr average salaries per month.
2. Gradually, contribution rates have been lowered to relief business costs.
Usage for Cpf had also expanded.
Then people have to work longer to save more.
3. Longevity also requires more retirement funds.
4. Rise of home prices outpace salaries which eat into people's Cpf.
CPF alone is definitely not enough for retirement
5. Medical advancements also demand more resources in keeping alive and continual treatments.
When my grandparents passed on at an age in what we today considered as young.
Cause of death? Unknown.
Because there were limited medical knowledge and resources to diagnose, not to mention treatments
[1:46 pm, 18/01/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
----
I will like to add on to my close friend comments :-
1. Relying on CPF contribution from working salary and business to contribute to our retirement - is 1 tap.
But as articulated by my close friend - CPF savings have been expanded to be used to serve a number of causes - not only retirement such as housing, medical etc.
Hence retirement sum from the CPF to fund our retirement is hard press - and could be insufficient - if we take into account the current inflation of more than 5%.
2. Hence I feel that another tap need to be found - to supplement the CPF retirement sum.
The answer could be in SERs or VERs in which 90% of the population dwell in and many old flats are facing lease decay -- and for private house owners - enbloc.
If the Government is able to run a successful monetisation of SERs and VERs as I illustrated in the previous forum - that look feasible without the need for Government to do capital injection - then retirement needs for the entire population will be within reach ---- without the Government stress up to do "Capital Injection" to fund the minimum retirement sum - for those unable to meet the basic retirement sum.
Note :- many housewives who drop out from the labor force to take care of the children upon birth - will have difficulty meeting the basic retirement sum.
And this will pose a hard press problem for Government to do "Capital Injection" - to these group of people to meet the Basic Retirement sum.
Note :- My proposal of monetisation of SERS and VERS - will relieve the Government of needing to do "Capital Injection" to help people unable to meet the basic retirement sum - as SERS and VERS - are finance by market valuation - and paid by buyers who have cash (eg. married couples who are working, PRs, etc) -- and feasible if the Economy is doing well.
[1:46 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: My side blue collar with OT easily 6k and above
[1:46 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: We made a mistake by asking a fresh Singaporean to help only to hold a changkol . See him in the morning, by lunch he is gone and left the company. He is a technician and we pay him well and above $4k
[1:47 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I feel you… π
Coming to Jurong island half don’t want come in liao…
[1:47 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Tuas south I would expect worst
[1:47 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: yes , and our ageing Singaporean workforce don't want to do OT even it is good. Mostly foreign workers like to do
[1:48 pm, 18/01/2023] +Frankie Wee: Work 101 years old can retire liao
[1:48 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: i wonder why when we speak about EP quotas ppl like to bring in blue collar ?
[1:49 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Because we are being restricted by quota for WP and S pass. sometime no choice but look at this areas
[1:49 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Like i say Ep not SP or WP
[1:49 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Cause some blue collar jobs are hired using EP… lol
You see when blue collar OT, can easily be EP pay… some companies lol do that
[1:50 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: EP is how much ?
[1:50 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: EP qualifying pay is definitely higher. We have assess a Malaysia WP with 12 years experience to convert to EP and it is minimal $8K
[1:50 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: But as EP standard gets higher..this change Lar
[1:51 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: The EP i saw is very very recent .
[1:51 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: the fresh grad Ep only 3K plus i heard
[1:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: I feel , areas like engineering , construction and areas very hard to get local to work like in Marine etc. The quota restriction needs to ease off else it is a problem for company
[1:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Should we shut down NTU shipping Course since useless
[1:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +L: I'm guessing need to pay Foreign worker more because he/she has to pay rent, can't get HDB; has to pay school fees, can't get local school.... needs health insurance, doesn't have medisave, etc
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: My friend company close down partly due to this as well
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Than local no need to pay , ah gong give ?
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: So many labour no executive also die
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +L: Yes, I'm sure if the company could hire local then they would, but have to pay CPF too...
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: That is logistic I think π
[1:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: No lah ... the current fresh graduate pay is $4.3 to $4.8. Fresh accountant from local university working as auditor is $6k. One Singaporean fresh poly working as a tester is $4.8K
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Any opening? π€£
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: 10 years also haven’t hit your starting
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Yes lor i also want
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Can't pay. ... These are from MNC
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π
[1:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: I know alot of MNC i dont think is true
[1:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +L: Always better to hire local, but if they can't find the skills then what to do? If the position goes overseas then we lose the tax and revenue, so better to have those jobs in SG even if it means hiring a foreign worker.
[1:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: No need MNC, government with engineering degree is $3.8
[1:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: It is true, as those figures comes from HR and my relatives
[1:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: First class even higher π
[1:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Any engineering degree
[1:56 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: This are no publish but on close door offer
[1:56 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: $3.8 is before pandemic, now you will not get applicant if offer this
[1:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Still can Lar.. Malaysian lor
[1:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: My side 3.3k also got fresh grad
[1:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: 8 Chen engineers half Malaysian π€£
[1:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Chem”
[1:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Currently administration clerk is $3.2 to $3.5
[1:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: good for you but the market outside is that high. The Malaysian caught into understanding the rate and now looking at this .
[1:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: So now is due to supply demand not really transfer of skill
[1:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: yes
[1:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: than why paper always say Ep is transfer of Skill lol
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Singaporeans should be able to meet their basic retirement needs as long as they work and make regular Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, even as it becomes more difficult to consistently build up their retirement savings amid disruptions and volatility in the economy and their lives, said Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday.
π¬ Do you think you will have enough funds saved up for retirement? How have you also changed your saving habits in anticipation of retirement?
Not everyone will benefit equally from these changes. Those with the right skills will be able to seize emerging opportunities while others may be unable to adapt, he said, and this will naturally create anxieties, especially among older, mid-career workers who…
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: It is world wide labour shortage , I don't know why ? did the covid kill off so many people ?
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Of EP, SP and others...
Can the policymakers supplement up to 10% of the wages to level up our (citizens) workers to match the rising cost of living?
Globally, the lowest cost of labor is India followed by Brazil, Vietnam, Indonesia and China is ranked 7th.
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Cos wage low of course retirement not enought
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Err many wanted to stay home if possible
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: I don't think so . Now we are in survival mode due to manpower shortage
[2:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Open door > low wage mean not enought
[2:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Never know when another covid hit… they need to travel back but unable
[2:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Work from home opens up many doors.. people choose life over jobs
[2:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: yes , very true
[2:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Many families broken during lockdown
[2:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Is local or non loacl ?
[2:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Those that go back might not come out
[2:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: if non local i dont think we have strenth to think so much
[2:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: When foreigner goes back… the opening who fill?
[2:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: End up local also shortage
[2:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: The delicate quota balance lol…
[2:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Company also headache
[2:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: that why the company decision not us or gov
[2:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Econmic is strongest survive
[2:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: that why we dont have apple or IBM . We use to have the NOL
[2:04 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: too bad
[2:05 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: When no quota company cannot hire foreigners… so all fighting to get more local… to get the quota back..
[2:05 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π I see my vendors headache over it
[2:05 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: The pie for local is limited.
[2:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: People don’t see it.. as a big picture
[2:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: u never ask the Hawker they did to increase quotas :)
[2:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Local staff are really just minority in most big mnc
[2:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: One or two is easy… try 100
[2:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: The hardest hit in terms of quota is the SME companies . Mostly have ageing Singaporean workforce
[2:07 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: You know a part time hire stuff can go as much as $2.5 to $3k to get non skilled workers?
[2:08 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: We get from labour vendors that provide short term hire for projects. Or short campaigns
[2:08 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Yes non skill just to carry or move or just stare at some work process
[2:08 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: For Engineering company not possible as it is alot of hard skills
[2:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Yup.. not all is possible
[2:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Quality will be an issue also
[2:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: My side we have some non skill labour intensive work
[2:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Final gate by in house staff so still ok
[2:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I am from quality π
[2:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Also my question to them.. but so far so good
[2:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas, good point. Thank you!
[2:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Ken, that seems high cost for employers. Thank you
[2:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Stop work is even higher cost
[2:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Overall cost makes sense for business hence we have to do it
[2:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Even thought manpower is way over market rate
[2:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Quota for workers permits is to ensure that our local workers are not compromised especially wages wise?
What has become many unintended consequences in this feedback chats.
A learning experience in progress...
[2:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: It makes sense. Thanks!
[2:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: Cos in company = Fixed plus varibae cost
[2:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: So it business decision before start and end the project
[2:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Existentially, our economy is no longer a low cost center!
It has transformed or is in progress towards higher tech!
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I also did study for transitioning to high tech…
Cost is high.. and flexibility is very low…
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Hi KL, good business economics.
Look at MC , STC and LTC. Its about cash flow aka revenues before realizing profit?
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: we are a low cost but not effective model. cos company want to earn more money so decided not to reform
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: we are not a low cost but not effective model. cos company want to earn more money so decided not to reform
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: To replace the low wage worker takes lots of initial investment
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Which is more than 10 years the workers pay π
[2:20 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: i agree but they need to have foresight on which buiness they invest in
[2:21 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Hi KL, things have changed, that's growth. Thanks
[2:21 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Without considering it breakdown π€£
[2:22 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: We are in the Center of the low wage ASEAN… π
[2:22 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: GDP growth not equal to effective. In economic , monopoly is best profit but the ineffective form of market
[2:22 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Hence it was so profitable to run in Singapore using Malaysian, Indonesian etc…
[2:23 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Japan still use low wage workers.. with help of high tech
[2:24 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: One important point.
Let's say for the GREENER purpose. The oil and gas industry will cease or half the headcount.
What will be today's labor placement, future skills training and education?
One new technology or new transformation will result in another Major disruption. This case is the labor force becoming redundant!
Sustainable into Reliable and finally affordable?
[2:24 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Our secondary production comes from nearby…
Example your wooden pallet, packaging for your product. π
[2:24 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: We value add by adding made in Singapore
[2:24 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: That's a smart business strategy. Thanks
[2:25 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: When we assemble most profitable item here and the ones that requires high trust
[2:25 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: A perfect system…
[2:27 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: ( i a layman ) by right the more effective economics is to use the work permit to temporary suitable for labour. while awating the fund and time for investment (captial upgrade) once done must remove WP and continue in japan method due to greedy of companies it become a problem .
[2:27 pm, 18/01/2023] +KL: MNC fund is a temp measure hoping while we grow SME but cos everyone greedy so miss the boat
[2:28 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: https://youtu.be/bJn3J_PPFGE
Everywhere is the same… and why countries want to take in immigrants π specially trouble nations
[2:28 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Teacher in HK, go be a packer at UK random town
[2:29 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: In Mexico, 2nd lowest cost center.
The textile sector relies on China imported fabric!
Globalisation and interconnected world?
[2:29 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: They don’t have a choice
[2:29 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: US is competitive near Texas π
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Canada, US and Mexico....three amigos!
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Lowest don’t means is the best…
Lowest and easy to manage…
Lowest can be Africa lol
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: But why no one go?
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Lots of labour..
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: You pay peanuts, you gets ..
Thank you Ken!
[2:30 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Think about it?
[2:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Myanmar lots of educated labour.. but why so little companies there?
Political stability and safety…
[2:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: The executive that setup need to be willing to go there to work as well to transfer skill over
[2:32 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: First world mass transit, FW facilities, FW conveniences and FW governance.
Cannot be a lower cost center?
[2:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: Willing to do the hard work in India, expats?
[2:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Lol India different story… culture also not so easy..
[2:33 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: But they are doing well in some parts..
[2:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Yet to full explore India π
[2:34 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Please be reminded to post content relevant to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active.
Thank you.
Megan
[2:39 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Anyway if working executive with degree, willing to save and invest. $500 a month plus CPF. Should be decent retirement I think
[2:39 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: But how to be financially savvy takes your own time to study… cannot depends on spoon feeding
[2:46 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: Yes work & work all go in CPF which cannot one shot draw out. It will not be the kids benefits bit ..........
Any way Singapore also not e best place for family. They have ppl or officers around to anyhow take the kids and accuse family.
So everyone one think twice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2:51 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: I'm from both. Shipyard/Construction
[2:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Best place to have children.. they grow up safe..
[2:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Retirement π not sure really
[2:53 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Agree. Safety is too underrated.
[2:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: Ya u wait long long . It safe for kids to stay . But those ding dong came & remove your kid with all sort of excuse and charge . Then you will know what is safe about.
[2:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π if you did something wrong… they take you away… fair no?
[2:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: They mention they help needy promote health family life. This are all smoke screen.
[2:56 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: Because they need hit KIP . Nothing go wrong they also can create.
[2:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Err this one, I don’t know… and cannot anyhow say leh π
[2:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Do know this is still public space
[2:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: Even a small scold , they can charge you neglect of child emotion and remove . No one will win these people if they decide to do something. Even area MP had to step aside and allow them do what they want.3
[2:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +CH Poh Clinic: It is truth not anyhow said. I am now helping a few group parent in fight these case. So Singapore is not a plce to retire and stay .
[3:31 pm, 18/01/2023] +Wilson Leong: I worked in construction also
[3:47 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Means they’re listening to the Citizen π
[3:50 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I would think it was the backup plan all along… π
When citizen no job just cancel EP. They can’t do anything about it also
[3:50 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Agree
[3:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: π€business type will be and which designation/level/dept of staff you’re looking for?
[3:52 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: How to be resident always lower.. either we send them back.. or just cancel their pass they have to go back
[3:54 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: They are
[3:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Anyway back to retirement.. what you guys do to protect your retirement?
[3:55 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Marine sector and Electrical Technician / Engineer / Welder / Industrial Motor overhaul
[3:56 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Specially those going to reached retirement… you think enough?
[3:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Em I used to be from RR(Rolls Royce) marine and my spouse is with SCA(Sumitomo Chemical Asia) all in Engineering they’re “Singaporean”
[3:57 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I still have 20 to 30 years till retirement π€£ still have time
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Same - 20 odd years or thereabouts.
Everything on course for retirement.
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Another company that I am with pays pass 60s and 70s year old , $8k with full employee benefits. Feel that they can contribute fairly and they are trainers
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +JkL: have lar.. just less. I am one of them working shipyard and offshore
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: SCA the working tier mostly are foreigner arh… lol
The planning engineers are Singapore.. non hard labour ones
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Don't rely solely on your cpf. Diversify and maximise your spare cash in investment suitable for your needs. Work part time if possible
[3:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: 7 years for me
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Congrats!
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: I simply cannot find them in the age group 20s to 30s
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: That’s good my company will half pay.. after retirement age π
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: πΊπΈπ₯π»πΉπ₯πππ€
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +TD: Shipyard got lah. Everyyear so many local fresh grad MTs
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: By the time retirement age will be 70? π€£π€£
[3:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Then they don't value experience .
[4:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +JkL: now younger won't be able to take the hard work in shipyard (hot and dirty)
[4:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: U mean PLG it’s at the dead end my daughter was once there π
[4:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Singaporeans should be able to meet their basic retirement needs as long as they work and make regular Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, even as it becomes more difficult to consistently build up their retirement savings amid disruptions and volatility in the economy and their lives, said Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday.
π¬ Do you think you will have enough funds saved up for retirement? How have you also changed your saving habits in anticipation of retirement?
Not everyone will benefit equally from these changes. Those with the right skills will be able to seize emerging opportunities while others may be unable to adapt, he said, and this will naturally create anxieties, especially among older, mid-career workers who…
[4:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Haha… we are very lean… in a way ask you to leave nicely
[4:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: If don’t leave bottom cannot climb..
[4:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: π€«π€«π€«π€«π€«
[4:01 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Not easy.. I have friend in that field… long hours and dangerous actually
[4:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Eventually convert to office bound shipping design job
[4:02 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π€£
[4:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: CPF consider risk free investment… if can I would max out… but hard to take out if max out
[4:03 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π₯²
[4:04 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Coming to this. I cannot fully rely on CPF to maintain. Maybe only basic but I have my endowment and insurance to cover me. I have this defer retirement scheme that I bought when I am 20s which I don't find it now. It is start paying me upon 55 every month till 100 and increase in sum every year. I could get about $4k per month when I am 80s . I think this is a good one but I don't see this anymore
[4:04 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Then again nothing is risk free π
[4:04 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Oh that one… have but is very high premium only.. normal people can’t afford
[4:06 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Not really, every month about 100 plus . Maybe I started young premium smaller and it was under UOB deferred annuity
[4:07 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: So , moral of the story. I plan early
[4:07 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Example lol.. but not cheap
[4:07 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: Maybe need to educate youngster on saving and retirement
[4:08 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: That’s the Pasir Panjang wholesale side
[4:08 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Yah I also try to achieve passive income $500 hopefully I get by 40
[4:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I mainly do investment for monthly income
[4:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Use investment passive to pay for insurance etc
[4:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Likewise
[4:09 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: This payout till 80. The one I have pay out till 100. If I die early, difference will pay to my estate
[4:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Err 100 too tough for company as more people survive long
[4:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: With a will or intestate via public trustee
[4:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Not good for business π
[4:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Last time 60 to 70 was norm mah
[4:10 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: So 100 can promise you the sky
[4:11 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Now they also scare π€£
[4:11 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: maybe , that why don't have this anymore
[4:11 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: It is a confirm guaranteed payout till 100. I get the schedule of payment too
[4:12 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Old plan they have to follow anyway with the money you put in during the time… investment would have 10x 20x if they did it well
[4:12 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: So money to you is not that bad
[4:13 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: yup
[4:13 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Current market is very hard to invest… too many information the margin for big profit is much lower
[4:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Big hits are rare..
[4:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +Thomas: At least when if I live to 80s or I live to 90s, I don't have to depend on my children.
[4:14 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: True… less problem for kids..
[4:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I have to save up for rainy days..
[4:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Social media post by investment analyst predicts crypto will rise to Usd36K before peaking at Usd149K!?
[4:15 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Parents in the 60s so expect eventually I have to fork up a sum to settle the medical bills
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: They have no retirement plan or CPF π
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Being doing that for 25 years already
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Sad
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: I did since 16 π
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Now still very low
[4:16 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Diversify as best as you can.
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Atleast I am debt free other than my HDB
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Very…
Gold, silver
Stock (US,Japan, Sg)
Trust
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Former DPM Toh Chin Chye did highlight not to rely solely on cpf for retirement
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Liquid enough… in case anything happens
[4:17 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Good
[4:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Wonderful
[4:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: So my parents of my only time bomb.. that I cannot plan π
[4:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: Just hope they are healthy all the way
[4:18 pm, 18/01/2023] +Ken: π
[4:19 pm, 18/01/2023] +Rama: Wishing them the best of health in mind, body and spirit.
[6:00 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Singaporeans should be able to meet their basic retirement needs as long as they work and make regular Central Provident Fund (CPF) contributions, even as it becomes more difficult to consistently build up their retirement savings amid disruptions and volatility in the economy and their lives, said Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong on Monday.
π¬ Do you think you will have enough funds saved up for retirement? How have you also changed your saving habits in anticipation of retirement?
Not everyone will benefit equally from these changes. Those with the right skills will be able to seize emerging opportunities while others may be unable to adapt, he said, and this will naturally create anxieties, especially among older, mid-career workers who…
[6:44 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[6:58 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: My apologies, In psychology term words can “Killed” such cases will be assess by a professional.
[6:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Singapore Maid Agency: Sounds like “M&E”
[6:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +Smiley face: 18 January, 2023
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
'How to survive (εΊζ¬ηζ΄»θ΄Ή) ?"
Models, Scenarios and Calculus?
Is $600 monthly sufficient for one ageing adult who is no longer working and has minimal or almost nil source of alternative to supplement her/his personal expenses aka cost of livings (COL)?
Surely, our policymakers have (in mind and in the making) models and scenarios for a single, a double or quad sized family yearly minimum expenditures. All for the purpose to help those who fall or fallen behind the rest of the society.
COL 2.0?
What is enough to survive comfortably in each of these 'model' family, this case referring to Singapore?
By comfortably, we assumed that a person HDB flat is nearing to 40 years old and …
[6:59 pm, 18/01/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
=====
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