REACH 294 - What do you think of the new measures, such as the eased dining measures and affordable Antigen Rapid Test kits, announced on Monday (15 Nov) to help Singapore live with Covid-19? (SK)
17 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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[10:02 am, 17/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
New measures were announced on Monday (Nov 15) by the multi-ministry task force on Covid-19 to help Singapore live with the Covid-19 pandemic. This includes the extension of dining concessions to hawker centres and coffeeshops to allow fully-vaccinated household members to eat out in groups of up to five by the end of November.
Finance Minister Lawrence Wong said an update may be provided early next week if Singapore should move on current Covid-19 measures.
💬 What do you think of the new measures, such as the eased dining measures and affordable Antigen Rapid Test kits, announced on Monday (15 Nov) to help Singapore live with Covid-19?
For those who are eligible, will you be taking your booster shot? Why or why not?
The measures are:
▶️ Fully vaccinated people from the same household will be able to dine in groups of up to five at hawker centres from end-November
▶️ New, affordable self test kits
▶️ Pilot scheme to ease capacity limits and zoning requirements for selected MICE, performance and sporting events with new 'Vaccination-Differentiated Safe Management Measures + Test' protocol
▶️ Vaccines for children: New supply agreement inked with Pfizer for Covid-19 vaccines for kids
▶️ S'pore to start VTLs with Indonesia and India from Nov 29, and with Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia from Dec 6
▶️ Easing of restrictions for migrant workers from Dec 3
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/cheaper-art-tests-well-below-10-pilot-events-to-allow-more-people-covid-19-measures
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spore-trying-very-hard-to-avoid-start-stops-in-covid-19-measures-lawrence-wong
👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/72-reduction-in-covid-19-infection-risk-for-moderna-booster-shot-after-pfizer-jabs-62
👉 https://www.facebook.com/100064362986604/posts/264409149047849/
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[10:11 am, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: ;why conference can have 5 pax dine in?
can offer this to Singapore resident?
[10:11 am, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: why this option not given to us?
[10:19 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: I realised the price of ART KIT price wil going down soon ,
But based on the price as $7 ,I do not believe it's was a price that everyone can accept or afford to buy just for one time use testing kit
Maybe Government thought they already doing a lot even few dollars down .
But sadly enough the price of $6 or $7 would not encourage people to do more testing
I hope Government would soon understand the more people frequently doing more testing wil keep the Covid Case number down
It's was important that other parts of world government believe Singapore Government are looking for Safe Reopens ,Not a Rush one
[10:21 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8355 8852: Is booster neccessay for middle age group
[10:21 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8233 5453: even some cannot afford - they still need to buy if needed. Which is a huge cost to them.
[10:24 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Happy to see eased measures for vax people. More steps in the right direction. Very keen to see families able to visit each other and friends to go out together, ie more than 2 people at a time.
[10:24 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8355 8852: $7 for ART is still too Exp for big family including the parents.. Hope Gov can do more
[10:25 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I have booked my booster, although I switched from pfizer to moderna based on yesterday's report that 2 Pfizer and 1 moderna is best. May or May not be true, but evidence suggests it. I booked my booster to better protect me and my family, also to help Singapore continue to open up.
[10:26 am, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $7 can buy 2 packs of chicken rice from hawker centre.
[10:26 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Would have liked to see the available shots go to the under 12s already, but understand gov isn't ready to approve.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Hope we have enough stocks and the vaccination program for kids can be delivered super fast.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Gov should take more steps for Vaccinated Differentiated Measures as it goes along.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: We cannot keep allowing anti-vaxxers to spread falsehoods.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Agreed
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Especially endangering our elderly who are most at risk of death or serious illness.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: Agreed
Imagine a test kit cost $7, need to test for at least 7 days, that will be $49 for a person.
If big family has 8-10 members need to be test on these 7 days, they will need to pay $392 to $490 for it
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: And they are most susceptible to falsehoods.
[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: Agreed too
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I'm interest how many ART tests are being done each day and what the expectation was.
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I agree that everyone has the freedom of choice whether to get vaccinated or not but NOT at the risk of our beloved elderly and children who are innocent.
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Is it voluntary or just for those going into the workplace?
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Every life is too precious.
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: 1 ART test daily. Result valid only for 24 hours
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Unvaxed should stay home.
[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Good luck with that.
[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I mean across the country
[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: It's happening in other parts of the world.
[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Just look at the plethora of Telegram chat groups planning and discussing how to override or bend the ruless.
[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: They have plenty of tactics.
[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: That’s good question
[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: You are right. Unvaccinated should be locked down.
[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: If any of you have time, go to Telegram and explore the anti-vax chat groups. You will be horrified.
[10:31 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: "The 2G regulations are similar to, though not as stringent as, rules introduced in Austria on Monday, under which unvaccinated people above the age of 12 in the states of Upper Austria and Salzburg have been confined to their homes for 10 days, except for necessary tasks such as going to school or work, to the doctors, to shop for food, or for exercise."
[10:31 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Parts of Europe doing circuit breakers rules for unvaxd
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Germany is a dollar a day
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: for the ART kit
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Should be prosecuted for acting against the public interest.
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I welcome the day they're investigated.
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I am perplexed why Gov is so lax combating such falsehoods.
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: we're all learn this from the army haha
[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Good point
[10:42 am, 17/11/2021] +KSFoong: I look forward to see the government to allow up to 5 vaccinated persons (can be from diiferent household) to dine together, or up to 5 household, max 10 per table for dinning. Restaurants to ensure each table to be at least 1 meter a apart.
[10:46 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Despite being more 'daring' and 'endemic' than us, Europe is now slowly backtracking and we are starting to see random lockdowns.
[10:46 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: So I guess SG should not follow their footsteps of opening up too quickly. Steadily yes. Haphazardly, no.
[10:49 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: And in India Covid Is not raising!!
Sg govt should Look into Covaxin Study
I rather take Covaxin booster than same mRNA
[10:50 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: May be Its early to say... But for now
India seems Achieved Herd Immunity, along with Vaccine Immunity..
[11:14 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: 👍
[11:15 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: We'll have to see, that's what they said in Europe a few months ago, and the US!
[11:19 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Infection numbers not rising .... could it be because they are not testing/reporting?
[11:21 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: May be
But ICU numbers or deaths also not increasing
Experts said Expect third wave in August..
And then Sep... Now mid Nov ...no sign of 3rd wave
[11:23 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: If by Dec or Jan Not many cases then we can say India Reached Herd & Vaccine immunity
I sincerly Hope MOH will look into Covaxin efficacy data
[11:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: https://theconversation.com/after-indias-brutal-coronavirus-wave-two-thirds-of-population-has-been-exposed-to-sars-cov2-165050
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/25/world/asia/india-covid-death-estimates.html
Maybe the Eh-Murr-icans are just jealous 👆🤷♂️ or maybe ...
[11:34 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: 3 packets of Chicken Rice to many of Singaporean🤣🤣
[11:37 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: I never said There were No deaths
We all know how many people died in Firsf and second wave
Here i am saying about third wave
Which many europe countries facing
But india seems stable..
[11:37 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Stable now..
[11:41 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: Singapore unlikely to go for freelockdown ,
MOH never put up a number ,which would allow the authority to go for circuit breaker
Unlike European Countries
No worries hopefully
[11:43 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Can't blame the virus. Their function is to mutate and stay alive 🤣🤣🤣
[11:43 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not saying you are wrong ... I am just sharing why I have my doubts that Covaxin is the reason for the spectacular turn around in India ... assuming the India-reported numbers are true, and if the article is to be believed the number of people vaxxed with Covaxin is miniscule ,, according to the reporter, "Covishield from AstraZeneca ... accounting for 87.5% of the vaccines administered to date (20 AUG 2021) ....
[11:55 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: According to the report (1) large % of the population had caught CV19 and recovered >> gained immunity (2) comparing serology tests and Official case reporting, the numbers are under-reported 33 to 1
"_Sero-positivity among children was 57.2% in those aged 6-9 years and 61.6% among those who are 10-17 years old. Experts believe that there is not much scientific evidence that children would be disproportionately vulnerable in a third wave. The government, however, anticipates the possibility of intermittent surges in the number of cases and prepared operational guidelines for children and adolescents in preparation for a third wave. Seroprevalence among those above 45 years was 77.6% and 66.7% among younger adults, indicating the effect of vaccination as well as infections.
The coronavirus had spread through the entire country; seroprevalence among the rural population (66.5%) was only slightly lower than in urban counterparts. A wide range of interstate differences have emerged, from a low of 44.4% in Kerala to 79% in Madhya Pradesh.
The extent of undercount – the difference between estimated cases (based on seroprevalence) and actual cases detected by RT-PCR and rapid antigen tests – is particularly worrying. Nationally, the system missed 33 cases for every one detected._"
[11:56 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I have a safe distancing officer violating my personal space by standing next to me and asked me about my vaccination. She laughed when she saw I became flustered. I thought I violated a law. Later after she Left. I thought I just share with her about body language personal space. She took offence and said she knows and commented that she is doing her job? I hope the other SMM ambassador is practicing respecting others when they do their job and not feed their ego. Like the earlier offender that went to a shop to get free service
[11:59 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes i totally agree
Deffinatly Under reported cases and also actual Deaths are much higher than The numbers.
And Yes about herd immunity is More than Vaccinated gained Immunity.
If This Waves Are happening again and again
If Herd immunity is the only solution
Then Current Method of Dealing is not going to work!
We should aim for Herd plus Vaccine immunity
Just depending on One is not Going to work out..
[0:03 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: New measures are in the right direction, hopefully can be groups of 5 regardless of household address. Especially for family who may live at different addresses.
I’m not eligible yet but am not keen on the booster shot tbh
[0:04 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My observation of SDAs are that they are mostly aiming to collect salary just for showing up. Some (as reported/caught) don the uniform to blackmail F&B/Biz owners for freebies.
Recently, before the 5 from same family can dine together rule was announced, I saw these 2 SDAs watching a group of diners - who were clearly in breach of the rules - seemingly discussing whether to take action, but ultimately, pretending they never saw anything and walking away 😂
Act blur live longer wins the day 😂
[0:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: The point about eventually needing to encounter the CV19 in order to trigger our own T-cell response and immunity had been mentioned by G/MOH and medical experts.
The right vaccine increases our odds that we do not fall seriously sick while awaiting out own T-cell response to kick in when we finally encounter/catch it.
I think that is also the reason why G/MOH is adjusting restrictions... to allow interaction - and encountering the virus, keeping an eye on hospital/ICU capacity and sometimes having to tighten restrictions again when cases are rising too rapidly and threatening the hospital/ICU capacity
[0:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: I am in on some of them
[0:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes ... I joined in to see what is being discussed/shared once in a while.. its very worrying. Hope the G/MOH is keeping an eye on this and have plan on how to reign this in
[0:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: S$7 is still too high.!
[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Likewise
[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Agree
[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes agree.. i read in news that Covaxin efficacy is more For Delta variant... Thats why suggesting to Look into it.
[0:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Deffinatly still too High ..
[0:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: reign rein
[0:15 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I confess to having reservations about the booster, just human to feel that I think! However I am confident that we have now seen enough evidence it is safe and effective, and it will help to open up the country.
[0:16 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Good
[0:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
21% of booster shot in Singapore is still too low to effectively beat the Delta wave.
Israel booster shot percentage is much higher and have beaten the Delta wave.
[0:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-1-million-israelis-who-didnt-get-3rd-dose-to-lose-green-pass-on-sunday/
Over 1 million Israelis who haven’t had 3rd dose to lose Green Pass on Sunday.
At 42% booster shot, Rt = 0.78 - Delta wave have been beaten back.
[0:22 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-covid-booster-shots-92-effective-at-preventing-serious-illness/
Israeli study: COVID booster shots 92% effective at preventing serious illness.
42% booster shot at Oct 2021.
[0:27 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.dw.com/en/israels-bet-on-early-covid-booster-shots-pays-off/a-59787257
Israel's bet on early COVID booster shots pays off.
[0:28 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I agree, and that's why I'm getting my booster.
[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Our government should start promoting booster shots and give us timely updates on the percentage as it increases.
[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: There is a daily update from Gov sg on the WhatsApp group
[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: [Sent by Gov.sg – 17 Nov]
As of 16 Nov 2021:
- 1,501 cases in hospital
- 234 require O2 supplementation
- 54 under close monitoring in ICU
- 68 critically ill in ICU
- Overall ICU utilisation rate: 63.3%
2,361 cases discharged; 363 are seniors aged 60 years and above.
Over the last 28 days, of the infected individuals:
- 98.7% have mild/no symptoms
- 0.8% require O2 supplementation
- 0.3% are in ICU
- 0.2% died
As of 15 Nov:
- 94% of eligible population completed full regimen/received 2 doses of vaccines
- 85% of total population completed full regimen/received 2 doses of vaccines, 86% received at least 1 dose, 21% received boosters
As of 16 Nov, there are 2,069 new cases. The weekly infection growth rate is 0.88.
go.gov.sg/moh161121
[0:35 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255
Those who are interested in medical study of the effectiveness of 2 jabs + 1 booster shot.
Israel study is based on 3 Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines.
[0:39 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: With 16 (and still counting) many VTL being opened, what's the hurry?
Can we wait to see the impact b4 opening so many, so fast, so soon?
Are ther sufficient Checks in place to authenticate every Vac Pass?
We do not want to be caught off guard again.
Ther wl be errant ppl who wan to try their luck or test the system, albeit this may be few. But tt is all it takes for another fresh wave to happen.
[1:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: SG one of the lowest COVID deaths per million
[1:32 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: According to the stats published by CAAS the majority of the people entering Singapore via the VTL scheme are Singapore residents so there is no need to authenticate every vac pass because its our MOH that issued the majority of them.
[1:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: Tq for the update.
[1:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: AIC engaged over 670,000 seniors on Covid-19 vaccination via visits, calls since Feb
Seniors who are keen on getting vaccinated but have difficulties doing so can seek help from the Agency for Integrated Care (AIC), as part of its efforts to protect the high-risk group against Covid-19.
More: https://str.sg/3GFw
[1:41 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
The daily death number is still quite high.
This is very concerning.
Anyway to reduce the death rate among those in ICU?
Yesterday reported 68 intubated. 44 unstable in ICU.
[1:49 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Very happy that hawker centre and coffeeshops allow 5 same household to dine in.
2. Only concern how does hawker centre and coffeeshops check that the 5 are of the same household especially coffeeshops as there are too many and too porous.
[1:52 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
3. Some coffeeshops say don't want to take the risk - because if customers caught not from the same household - coffeeshops need to close for 10 days because of the breach - and they will suffer greater loss.
[2:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Seems the wrong people are being punished for being the rules. It feels like a punishment anyway!
[2:21 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Maybe those caught breaking the rules should have to reimburse the stall owners for loss of earnings
[2:28 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. If don't punish the f&b, f&b can deliberately flout the rules and escape from it.
2. Customers deliberately flout it should be punished.
3. So it is catch 22 situation.
[2:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[2:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/pfizer-strikes-deal-to-allow-generic-versions-of-its-covid-pill-for-worlds-poor?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
[2:34 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: If rule 2 is enforced then it becomes responsibility of the individual. If the penalty is harsh enough they will be deterred. There is no defnece for the customer since they plainly know if they are living together.much harder for the coffeehouse to know and easier to be tricked.
[2:35 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Not understanding why this is catch 22.
[2:35 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well let the authority decide.
[2:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Yes, if the authority can identify the rule breaker they can be penalised. By stopping the customers from breaking the rules then everyone is protected.
[2:37 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Some restaurants were ordered to close because they flout the dine in rule.
Both restaurants and customers were punished.
Both are at fault. So these will be a fair outcome.
By only punishing one side when 2 are at fault is not a fair judgement.
[2:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: that ... is the meaning of Catch 22 😂
[2:39 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
But if the f&b have checked but customers deliberately flout it, then rightfully customers should be punish.
But how to determine f&b is not at fault?
[2:39 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
So f&b to play safe decides to stick at 2 than 5.
[2:40 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: So everyone loses out. That's a really bad policy then.
[2:41 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I do think we have too many complexities, when simpler approaches are available
[2:41 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Restaurants easier to enforce.
But coffeeshops are made up of many stallholders.
If one table flout the rules, all stallholders suffer.
[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Yes, that's why I'm suggesting customers should be heavily penalised, not coffee shops.
[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is what I mean catch 22.
Open up more business.
But flout the rules, 10 days business loss.
[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I suspect the reason is the gov needs coffeehouse to check, and they won't if there are no penalties for them.
[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Got it
[2:43 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Then restaurants and other f&b outlets and food court and hawker centre will cry foul.
How come coffeeshops special treatment.
[2:45 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Because much harder for them to enforce
[2:46 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Anyway, moving on :)
[2:47 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Why should F&B bear the bulk of burden of checking and ensuring?
Everyone knows the rules. At most, F&B be made to remind patrons when they arrive, wither verbally or with signages... if the patrons choose to knowingly flout the rules, then they should be harshly penalised!
Make sure the penalty is harsh enough and make sure it is publicised. Make an example of these people then you will see if anyone still dares to try their luck.
[2:47 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Well Bloomberg 5 dine in has cause an uproar.
So coffeeshops, if got special treatment - I won't be surprised if someone dig it up - trigger another uproar.
[2:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Not fair to place the burden of enforcement on the F&B which has no real authority to enforce the rule.
[2:50 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
I keep an open mind.
Let authority decide.
[3:01 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: 18ppl death yesterday & for the past month daliy death around 5 -20
If U dare to tell me small death compare other countries
Simply Bull Shift
[3:02 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: MOH must save life ,not life wait until collapse
[3:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: Think again, If MRT or Buses having Crashed on the road 18 lost their life
We may talk about this for months
[3:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: When comes life thread everything should be seriously , Find every single solution to save everyone life
Rather then said small number of death rate compare here or there
But people's already gone🤦♂️🤦♂️
[3:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Are you saying the G/MOH/Hospitals not doing all they can to save these people's lives?
[3:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: If Government can deploy the ✌️RED SHIRT✌️at our Hawker Centre ,Why they can't do that at Coffeeshop
What's the difference🙅♂️🙅♂️
[3:19 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Note hawker centre and coffeeshops are a special breed compare to restaurants, f&b and food courts - because they allow unvaccinated (dine in at 2).
The rest must be fully vaccinated to go in.
So hawker centre and coffeeshops - will add more complexity into checking same household for 5 and Vaccination status.
So authority will have to come out with a good solution for the open up - as they're more complex than thought.
[3:19 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: I wondering why the death rate stIl remain high everyday, after a month stIl remain the same
[3:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Maybe because more people are getting infected?
[3:21 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: due to relaxing of restrictions and people becoming more complacent?
[3:23 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: If G decide to deploy Red Shirt to few coffeeshop in a few area coffeeshop to do the checking
Just like they are Mall to Neighbourhood centre
[3:25 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: Strict Covid-19 testing for high-profile Bloomberg forum as S'pore revives global event hub ambition
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/strict-testing-designated-shuttle-buses-for-high-profile-bloomberg-forum-as-spore-revives
[3:25 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: 'Ruili toddler has taken 70 tests' as China presses strict zero-Covid-19 strategy
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/fatigue-and-frustration-as-china-presses-strict-zero-covid-strategy
[3:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I think i remember you arguing that the G/MOH is wrong to implement differentiated measures for the unvaccinated previously.
Well.. even with the differentiated measures meant to protect these (more) vulnerable people, they obviously are not accepting the rules and/or not following the recommendations.
This is exactly what is expected. Restrictions relaxed for the majority who are vaccinated, if the vulnerable group is allowed to mingle freely, the incidence of catching CV19 will increase, and so will the NUMBER OF DEATH. It is not rocket science.
[3:30 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: A very grey area considering what we are dealing with
[3:32 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: We have had 612 deaths with a population of 5.6 million.
The USA has had 764,364 deaths with a population of 330 million.
Belgium has 26,444 deaths with a population of 11.6 million.
If our numbers are pro-rated to match the US population size and thus to be comparable to the USA, we would have had 12,971 deaths. Similarly, compared to Belgium we would have had 12,766 deaths.
As above, we have actually had 612 deaths.
So the US and Belgium have a death rate which is 20 times higher than ours. Even Israel - which is regularly mentioned on this group as an example - has a death rate which is 13 times higher than ours.
It is fact that our death rate is small compared to other countries. The Government has done a good job.
[3:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: It's also worth remembering that 612 is over 18 months. Singapore generally has 600 flu deaths a year (i.e. 900 over 18 months).
[3:37 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: MOH is not GOD
Doctors are not GOD
[3:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +...: 😂
[3:58 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: People are dying due to all kind of causes. COVID accelerated them. But it will be counted as Covid death.
[3:59 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: The hospitals n Govt are doing so. Hence the current restrictions and attempts to increase capacity. I simply wish to state that covid deaths are being blown out of proportion. Anyhow this is stil a virus and uncontrollable, as you can see even vaccinated people can get critically ill. Most of the countries that have learnt to live w covid have gone through a wave of infections already unlike SG and may also have high vaccination rates. Our infection and death rates remain high because we have not been exposed to the virus yet and also still have many unvaccinated people.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616
[4:00 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapores-overall-death-rate-did-not-increase-despite-covid-19
[4:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If we go by that logic, then any disease/accident actually accelerates NATURAL death.
Also, no one actually dies of HIV/AIDS ... but rather another disease/ailment due to the body's inability to ward off that infection/illness. Going by that yardstick, maybe then there should not have been any record of HIV/AIDS being the cause of death?
[4:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: So the question is whether we should attribute Covid death count to Covid solely.
[4:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My question is, where do we draw the line, who should decide, why ... which narrative benefits whom, and finally, to what end?
[4:35 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: It's a very hard choice even for the most esteemed professional to make.
[4:40 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If attributing it to Covid highlights the dangers of this virus - which I think is fair, since there is no argument that it does at the very least accelerate the "process - and draws everyone's attention to it. To be more vigilante and place more focus on remedy. Then I don't see why not.
On the other hand, if the objective of denying that CV19 played an important, an ultimately final role in accelerating death, then I wonder, why diminish the focus, or obscure the obvious dangers by attributing it to another disease even if pre-existing?
[4:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: To win an argument? Or because focusing the remedy on the pre-existing/underlying condition alone is enough?
[4:46 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Indeed ... and a less pressing issue to address in our fight against the pandemic, in my opinion
[4:47 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: Precisely this is the point. It seems that some have the view that our government failed miserably as so many death due to Covid. But there were a lot of death due to pneumonia pre-Covid period. So has our government failed to control Covid death. We need to look at the right perspective.
[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Maybe gov to come with all death statistics
[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: And then compare with covid
[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Its always been available ... on Singstats
[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Not available one news
[4:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Ppl don't go into singstats
[4:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: We need to study the handling once things are back to normal. In the middle of a pandemic, not possible to make conclusions but easy to throw accusations.
[4:51 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: So you want something .. its available .. maybe you didn't know before .. now someone tells you where to find it ... but you say you don't go there,,, so to you its as good as don;t have, and should be served on a platter to you 🤔
[4:52 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Can generally people don't go Singstats ma. Then gov everyday keep telling people how many ppl die of covid
[4:52 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Reminds me of the saying, "“you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
[4:53 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Don;t mean to be argumentative, but Singstats is the permanent "home" or resource for all Singapore related data and statistics
[4:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If it is something of huge concern to you ... I believe you would click that extra page and search for it ... if not, then maybe that info is not that important to the person afterall?
[4:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Then people will only focus on the death rate of covid.
[4:56 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I guess it depends on what the ultimate objective is.
To highlight the dangers of CV19? Or to send the message that it is nothing to worry about. I am sure the messaging will change as the situation evolves.
[5:07 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/life-saver-boosters-cut-elderlys-risk-of-covid-death-to-50th-of-unvaxxed-rate/
Israel data: Boosters cut elderly’s risk of COVID death to 50th of unvaxxed rate
'Dramatic figures' show over-60s who shun vaccines are not only at much greater risk of death than triple-vaxxed, but also have 65 times the chance of getting seriously ill.
[5:08 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
High number of daily death from covid is preventable.
1. Getting unvaccinated to vaccinate.
2. Get those vaccinated after 6 months to get the booster shot.
[5:09 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.trtworld.com/life/israel-makes-booster-shot-mandatory-latest-updates-50431
Israel makes booster shot mandatory – latest updates.
[5:11 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/covid-israel-unvaccinated-17-nearly-half-deaths-booster-pfizer-1.10216067
Israel's Unvaccinated 17% Now Account for Nearly Half of COVID Deaths.
[5:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: Don't understand why so many people seem to believe any opinion published in Straits Times but do not believe irrefutable and provable facts published in the same paper.
[5:14 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: This is what I think......
Comparing those statistics with CV19 death numbers is waste of time because the only reason why CV19 deaths in SG is low, is because of the extraordinary efforts of the G/MOH, Doctors, Nurses, everyone ... and the restrictions/measures that were put in place.
The common flu when it first surfaced, killed millions worldwide. Going through past accounts of previous pandemics will reveal that what we are going through today, is not much different. It is a marathon with multiple stages to be conquered.
If we implement the same measures whenever someone catches the common flu as we do CV19, I am certain the infection and morbidity rates will be much lower than what we see on Singstats.
Conversely, if we compare the CV19 infection/morbidity rates in the US, against SG common flu data (on Singstats), we will conclude that CV19 is indeed more dangerous.
So, unless you believe that Americans are more susceptible to CV19 than Singaporeans, then I am sure you will notice that the differentiating factor in rate of infection and death, is really the CV19 restrictions/measures as well as the medical care that our G/MOH had made available.
[5:15 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. The reason why Singapore has one of the Lowest death rate in the world is because Singapore has the highest vaccination population 86% and 21% booster shot.
2. The reason why we still have double digits death per day is because there are still 5% eligible adults and seniors are unvaccinated.
[5:17 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And i hope gov can come up with more advisories to give booster shots to people who were infected with covid. Because the antibodies wane over time.
[5:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: Completely agree...... Except American probably are more susceptible to dying (rather than catching) because our seniors are fit and health and Americans tend to be fat and not health.
[5:19 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Not sure for those infected - should they get a booster shot.
MOH need to advise.
Understand that those infected must also get 1 vaccination shot to get immunity.
But not sure whether booster is needed or not.
[5:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Either that or ....
1. The vaccination is not as effective in protecting (triggering B-cell immunity) in the vulnerable - aged/pre-existing medical conditions/immuno-compromised
2. Low death rate because G/MOH had been making sure we have sufficient ICU/High dependency capacity - by adjusting restrictions to limit infection rate relative to hospital/ICU capacity. The Americans, many of them go from infected, directly to grave due lack of capacity to treat the people.
[5:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why gov should provide this advisory quickly.
[5:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
For 1., Booster shot will definitely help.
For 2, getting unvaccinated to vaccinate will help.
[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I know friends who got infected and recovered. Fuily vaxxed, no booster yet, no co-morbidites. Flu/fever lasted about a week. HQ/Recovery since young, healthy and relatively mild symptoms.
After PCR confirmed fully recovered, notification sent to them to inform them that they do not need a booster shot for the next 6 months.
[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: definitely
[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Wow
[5:23 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: I think what gov needs to give is a clear guideline, those who are 2x vac and infected, what is the timeline for them to get booster shot.
[5:24 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: I believe this is already being looked into.
[5:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I think there had been official G/MOH advisory about this as well, just that it was given less airtime relative to the other announcements... or maybe its because we only want to hear what we want to hear 😂
I think from back in June/July the G/MOH had already categorised those who have recovered from CV19 in the same category as those who had taken the 2 shots of vax.
[5:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: But data has changed due to more cases. Now 2 shots not enough already
[5:27 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: I am waiting for under 6 mths to 5 yo vac 🤷🏻♀️
[5:28 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Probably somewhere next year
[5:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Its true,, and unfortunately, we will probably continue to uncover new information which will require more adjustments as we gain more knowledge about the virus.
We need to ultimately catch the virus, trigger our own T-cell response, to gain full immunity against it,
Vax only triggers (fast response) B-cell immunity which wanes over time.
Due to the aggressive nature of the CV19 virus, we need the fast reacting B-cell protection to buy us time while the slower responding T-cell immunity kicks in when we encounter the virus. Eventually, the therapeutic pills will help to further diminish the symptoms when we catch CV19. Gaining full/complete immunity against CV19 is not an overnight exercise unfortunately.
[5:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Good point
[5:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My friend's 7yo child was infected quite recently. Fortunately the symptoms were relatively mild - flu/moderate fever, loss of smell and taste. Recovery was fast, sense of smell and taste returned in about 5 days and PCR confirmed full recovery 7-10 days.
HQ/Recovery supplemented with tele-medicine support
[5:37 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Wonderful
[5:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: So far no signs of lingering health issues in the 7YO
[5:39 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Hopefully this would give parents here some measure of comfort. Stay vigilant, but no need to be overly worried.
[5:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: The T-cell immunity you develop after you catch CV19 is lifelong. It wanes because there is no need for it to be constantly produced when there is no CV19 virus to ward off. Why we still need a booster vax is (from what I understand as a layperson, not doctor/immuno-specialist) because
1. B-cell immunity from the vax, reacts faster (then T-cells) to invading pathogens, is more general in nature, and acts the first line of defense.
2. In the case of CV19 vax, the antibody response/count wanes from 6mths onwards. Immunity from vax wanes regardless of which vax it is. The difference is in the time it takes for it to wane.
3. T-cells (triggered when our body encounters the pathogen) is lifelong. Once your body encounters the pathogen, and the antibody to com…
[6:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: A Compassionate and Well Thought Process
Death At Home - Procedures
Firstly, Call 995 or Call 999 to lodge a police report of the situation.
Ambulance will be deployed to help save or to confirm it is a death. Arrival of Police officers can be ahead of the ambulance or shortly after the ambulance had arrived at the given address.
NRIC or other form of Identity of the person that called and the deceased will be helpful to the police officer for verification purposes.
Investigating Officer will arrive after the team of police officers confirmed the case as death. The IO will rule out any unnatural death like murder etc. Once the IO is satisfied that the case is a natural death, the death certificate can be issued by a certified doctor which usually work hand in hand with an undertaker.
The cost of this death certification is $300 paid on the spot or invoiced into the funeral services Bill. Please note that the medical doctor will only certified THREE CLASSIFICATIONS of death that is STROKE or HEART ATTACK or CANCER. Either one of these three causes are pre existing medical conditions that usually has medical records with hospital or clinic. Family members can provide these medical records will be easier for the issuance of the death certificate.
Family member designate to proceed to any police station or police post present the deceased IC and the doctor's certificate. A formal death certificate will be issued by the police on duty to the family member.
This certificate of death will be needed for booking of cremation and the purchase of a place to house the ash. The undertaker will facilitate all these schedules and paperworks.
First Exception, if family members are in sync do not agree to the either one of the classifications. The medical doctor will recommend and family members AGREE for the state to perform an autopsy. The police will then execute this request, the autopsy may take 1 day to complete and thereafter the collection of the deseased by an undertaker.
Second Exception if the deceased is a covid case, the police will undertake the body for autopsy. The handling of covid death case at home or public place or workplace (with or without ID) is different unlike in hospital. The autopsy will not take more than 24 hours before the family designated undertaker collects the body to proceed for the necessary funeral arrangenents. For covid death, the body is DOUBLE SEALED and the casket is SEALED. Three days of mourning is allowed, the cremation time & date will be given priority over other parties.
Third Exception, for covid patient who is "going to pass on", it is advisable for family members to pick the appropriate Clothings and standby to pass to the nurses. Unless there is exception and grace, the covid death body will be DOUBLE SEALED with bio proof body bags. Thereon, NO tampering of the body bag is allowed.
[6:53 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:59 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2021
To: Distinguished MTF, DMS and All Honorable Members
"Now $10, soon to be $5, may be $3 or hopefully 'FREE' ?"
ART Price Variants:
NBC News - -
Germans pay less than $1 per test. Brits get them free. Why do Americans pay so much more? Because companies can still demand it.
Rep. Kim Schrier, D-Wash., for months has advocated for rapid testing at a lower cost. "In an IDEAL world, a test would either be free or cost less than a dollar so that people could take one a few times a week to every day,"
Consumers elsewhere have much cheaper — or free — options. In Germany, grocery stores sell rapid tests for under $1 a piece. In India, they're about $3.50. The U.K. provides 14 tests PER PERSON free of charge. Canada is doling out free rapid tests to businesses.
In Germany, regulators have given special authorization to DOZENS of antigen tests.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/why-do-covid-rapid-tests-cost-so-much-even-after-n1278934
https://twitter.com/overseasdem/status/1429326478903291914?s=20
Afterwords:
The Necessities and The Economics of ART:
Let's make ART affordable and accessible!
Assumption - -
10 kits per household per month. Each kit cost $5
Estimated Monthly National Consumptions of ART kits = $65 million ($50 x 1.3 million households).
Projected Annual National Consumptions will likely be $800 million to $1.0 billion.
(The total cost of National Stadium was $1.87 billion)
What's the subsidy government will undertake?
Suggest FREE ART quarterly to all households, 10 kits per household?
Environmental proper, how to dispose these kits and masks?
Variants of Concern:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-variants-genomically-confirmed-case-numbers/variants-distribution-of-case-data-27-august-2021
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/12/spike-and-nucleocapsid-protein-mutations-in-tanzanian-and-ugandan-strains-of-sars-cov-2-demand-attention/?sh=7a0b04a4489e
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/12/spike-and-nucleocapsid-protein-mutations-in-tanzanian-and-ugandan-strains-of-sars-cov-2-demand-attention
-- END - -
[7:00 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
=====
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