REACH 292 - What are your views on the eased restrictions, in particular, the dining in measures from two to five pax at F&B outlets only? (SK)
10 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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[10:00 am, 10/11/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
At a press conference on 8 Nov, the Multi-Ministry Taskforce (MTF) announced that Singapore will carefully ease some COVID-19 measures, while continuing to protect the most vulnerable in our society from the risk of infection.
π¬ What are your views on the eased restrictions, in particular, the dining in measures from two to five pax at F&B outlets only?
From today:
➡️ Up to 5 fully vaccinated members of the same household will be allowed to dine out together at F&B establishments (except at hawker centres & coffee shops for time being).
➡️ Soft recorded music will be allowed at F&B outlets.
➡️ Secondary schools and secondary/senior sections of Special Education schools, Junior Colleges/Millennia Institute and Institutes of Higher Learning will be allowed to conduct masked activities in sub-groups of up to 5 persons. These educational institutes will also pilot the resumption of team sports formats to allow a group of up to 10 fully vaccinated persons to play together.
➡️ The Home Recovery Programme will be expanded by lowering the minimum age for default home recovery from 5 years to 3 years old.
Other measures:
➡️ From 1 Dec, those medically ineligible to get vaccinated will get concessions from safe management measures after they are certified by a doctor. They will be able to dine at eateries, enter malls and participate in activities where vaccination-differentiated measures are required.
➡️ From 8 Dec, COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice will have to foot their own medical bills.
➡️Three new vaccinated travel lanes launched with Malaysia, Sweden and Finland.
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/dine-in-pilot-to-allow-team-sports-for-fully-vaccinated-persons-from-nov-10
πhttps://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-patients-who-choose-not-to-be-vaccinated-have-to-foot-own-medical-bills
πhttps://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-eases-border-measures-for-more-south-east-asian-countries-new-vtls-launched-with
[10:04 am, 10/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Good move to make the unvaccinated to foot the bills.
I don't think taxpayers need to be burdened by their choice of not getting jabbed for the good of the nation.
[10:04 am, 10/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Very worried that young kids are still defaulted for Home Recovery as I think they need closer monitoring when they're sick.
[10:20 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government meant to me was to serve every Singaporean
I believe that is a group of people may still worry of the consequences after getting the Jab & some group of people stIl unable to see the benefits of the Jab, some may have mental issue hardly to go for doctotr Consultation before heading for Jab
I believe this is an Society or Community's issue. Needs Government be careful & fully look at it with Grace.
However ,the role of Singapore Government under Covid period is getting more punishment to people
It seems like Father Caning his Kids more & more frequently
Which is this Country getting more act like punishment people then listening & understand ones
Which makes me worried regards on every issue related to Singaporean & Government Decision.
[10:33 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: The previous week & times question given by Reach ,
Government haven't act on it
Like ART KIT Expensive pricing in the market
MOH pls response & act quickly given the trust of every Singaporean
[10:45 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government or MOH Knowing to set up time & dateline to punish the ones without getting Jab to paying recovery bil
But Government or MOH dosent care the market pricing , Which Singaporean asking the Government or MOH lowering down our ART KIT pricing to become Cheap & Affordable
But they dosent act at all over the past monthsπ ♂️π ♂️π€¦♂️π€¦♂️
[10:50 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Is it fair that a small group of people who are worried - for mostly unfounded reasons - continue to hold the rest of the country/society hostage?
Was the G/MOH not been overly generous since the pandemic broke? Free vaccination, resources poured into contact tracing tools, procedures, personnel, education through media campaigns, grassroots movements etc, balancing between enabling the economy and businesses ie. livelihood to resume while protecting the vulnerable (many of whom are the stubbornly misinformed group that you speak of, who are "worried" about the vax). How long more and how much more do you expect the Govt and everyone else to do/wait until these fools "wake up"?
How long more are we expected to be patient and continue to be held hostage by them?
Remember that the rest (almost 90%) who took the vaccination, are also at least slightly afraid that it will do our body harm. We are also afraid when we take the jab, that something might go wrong. But we did it anyway, because we recognise that if we don't, everyone will be held back.
Govt's decision to make these stubborn fools pay for their own medical care is the right move. My only complain is that they only did now instead of from the very beginning!
You want to make a point, then put your money (and your health) where your mouth is ... like the rest of us!
[10:51 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I will be going for my booster jab this week.
[10:52 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U just another chap without a heart of it in hokkien ι»εΏθ F+++ off
[10:55 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U don't have to response me, but I want the Government or MOH to response only & the rest can discuss with me
Except U Chxx Xyx
[10:55 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Overall good progress. Very keen to see under 12s vaccinated and to see them playing sport together soon as possible. Gov taking good steps to open up lives. Very fair to charge those who don't want to be vaccinated by choice. Very fair to provide support for those who cannot be vaccinated due to health conditions
[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U die or not alive from other part if the world ,dosent bother me at all
[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The household only dining is a bit odd, since we can still go to each others house to eat in groups, why not in a restaurant?
[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes me too next week.
[10:57 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Don't understand what you are saying. Use Mandarin. I can read that too. Or voice, in Hokkien. Also can
[10:58 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: It's alright U not as good as me
[10:58 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Boosters will see Covid ‘fade into the background’, says Oxford scientist.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/boosters-see-covid-fade-background-075508675.html
[10:59 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U just another fool to me
[11:00 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-singapore-showing-the-world-what-a-covid-19-endgame-looks-like?source=articles&via=rss
This Is What a COVID Endgame Looks Like
David Axe.
Singapore may be showing us the surprising way the pandemic could end in certain countries.
Singapore "Middle Path" showing the way to endemic.
[11:01 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When you are so intelligent/brilliant, caring and articulate... not many can compare to you. I can understand why I will appear a fool to you or great, mighty, wise one πππππ
[11:01 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Anyway, I said what I need to say. Also no time to talk rubbish with stubborn old fools
[11:03 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I have 1%per cent mother Teresa kindness & generosity ,
However U not qualified
[11:05 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Idiot always act like a fool
Which is U
[11:06 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Yesterday went to 2 food court and ask whether 10 Nov, can 5 persons of same household dine in.
2. One food court say, 5 dine in only at restaurants.
3. 2nd food court say 5 persons of same household can dine in but must be same address.
Then I ask will you all check the IC to verify same address?
They say let SDA check, they won't check.
4. So now a bit confusing, can food court allow 5 persons of same household dine in or not leh?
[11:10 am, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Government should help to regulate not only the prices and charges of ART-KIT, also PCR swab test too. PCR in airport for arriving Sporeans and other travellers are $160, pre-departure swab test can be as expensive as $200. Below $100 should be most reasonable, 50-80 would be reasonable I think.
[11:12 am, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I also don't understand how you allow restaurant but not hawker center. Maybe it's gradual opening
[11:14 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Hawker centre I can understand - because cannot check.
Food court, all entry check for vaccinated status - so just like restaurant.
But as food court is not explicitly stated, now food court also get confused - whether can 5 persons in same household dine in or not.
Some say can, some say cannot.
Now all confused.
[11:15 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Agree that the ART kits could be made more affordable for people who are required/mandated to perform regular testing due to the work they do. Maybe apply income/means testing to determine subsidy level?
Do not agree on subsidising PCR testing at airports for travellers regardless of Nationality. If you can afford to travel, you can afford to pay for the tests to keep everyone else safe.
[11:16 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: +1
[11:17 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government or MOH Knowing to set up time & dateline to punish the ones without getting Jab to paying recovery bil
But Government or MOH dosent care the market pricing , Which Singaporean asking the Government or MOH lowering down our ART KIT pricing to become Cheap & Affordable
But they dosent act at all over the past monthsπ ♂️π ♂️π€¦♂️π€¦♂️
[11:20 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I waiting & waiting π€¦♂️π€¦♂️
[11:21 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: My feedback is that these measures are a step in the right direction but we should reopen even faster and allow social gatherings of 5 pax or outdoor group sports/recreation activity sooner rather than later.
With the many VTLs and loosening of restrictions in schools etc there's not much point in maintaining some of the other restrictions. The virus will become endemic and widespread in our community but we r protected by vax immunity.
[11:21 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Singaporean waiting the price to go down sharply for the ART KIT
[11:22 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Hard to monitor I guess
[11:23 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: So only rich should be allowed to see their families after 2 years?
[11:24 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes, especially with more ICU coming if needed. I'm OK with cautious though, but not for too long please.
[11:24 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Getting unvax by choice to pay is a great idea. Well done. π Should have been implemented much earlier.
[11:25 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes, it was suggested here months ago! Had to wait for sinovac to be available I guess.
[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +Rama: Singapore's three "brakes" to stop Covid-19 from hurtling out of control
SINGAPORE - If Singapore's battle with Covid-19 can be compared to a bicycle rolling downhill, the country's extensive rules are brakes to prevent the ride from hurtling out of control."We have been careful in putting together this package of adjustments, which we hope would be meaningful for families to dine together, as well as for sports, school life and other activities to resume - all this, while keeping risks under control," said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong, who co-chairs the task force along with Mr Ong and Trade and Industry Minister Gan Kim Yong.
https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/7774776?media_type=1&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp
[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Agreed
[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Not really. They are the most resilient.
[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: π
[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: With regards to making COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice foot their own medical bills, I think G/MOH should go a step further and make sure to place them on the lowest priority when it comes to receiving medical care.
Many of these people justify their selfish decisions with irrational arguments. Some berate people who decide to vaccinate. Many even claim that they would rather take their chances with the virus than the vaccine. Just have to observe the conversations/comments in the various forums.
Well, I say let them put their health where their mouth is.
[11:27 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Good to see ART now accepted.
[11:30 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: How "poor: are these people you speak of who can afford a plane ticket, but not the $160 fee? π³
[11:30 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: ζ΅ζ΅ͺζ± infected Covid
,who going to pay his bil
No job No family
Social problem
[11:31 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yep. My unvax relatives trusted China based fake news on internet and rather take TCM if sick.
I agree no need to prioritize them. They know e risks, but choose to take it. Just let them stay home take their TCM
[11:32 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Well a family of 4 equal $600, on top of flights etc
[11:32 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: There wil be a group of people who may lives in our neighborhood ,slept one corner to another
If they fall sick to Covid
Are Government going charge themπ€¦♂️π€¦♂️
[11:35 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually if they homeless and no money, the govt can't charge them one. Only charge on paper and write off as bad debt.
[11:36 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: So, factor that into the budget. Can't expect Govt to do the financial planning for everyone. π
Or... someone can start a company/business, apply for the relevant license, employ the right staff and compete with Raffles Medical Group to provide the testing at $50 (as someone suggested)... or maybe even for free.
[11:37 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government can only charging this group of people , Who's already acknowledge of the Covid 19 in Singapore for years now
Like wealthy income level can afford to pay the bill
Then I said should be ok
Government & MOH can charging this individual
[11:40 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Also makes you wonder if the G/MOH offered these homeless ζ΅ζ΅ͺζ± free vaccination like the rest of us.
Did he refuse? Why?
Nowadays so many social/charitiable movements/groups...no one tried to reach out? So someone saw this ζ΅ζ΅ͺζ± but didn't offer to help them get help? π
Got so much time to think up all the worst case scenarios, but no time to do the real work or factcheck themselves π
[11:40 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The earlier person was just suggesting it could be done cheaper. In France it was about $80.
[11:41 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: You often suggest people start up a business instead of asking suggestions or putting forward requests. Why is that? This is a forum for discussion not an entrepreneurs expo.
[11:42 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Apparently .... France is also among the European countries which impose the heaviest tax burden on high earners. The top rate of income tax including surcharges is 51.5 percent for 2021, putting France in sixth place, behind Denmark, Greece, Belgium, Portugal and Sweden. π This came up top of my google search result when i searched for "income tax France"
[11:43 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I forgive the nasty fool without a heart π€£π€£
[11:43 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: How is that related? The tests are done by private labs.
[11:44 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually it's very sad one. Not everyone has a strong desire to live. Esp if life circumstances r bad or nothing to look forward to. Some elderly r like that too.
But they r e small minority at this point.
Maybe the right way is to charge if they want ICU but if they don't mind subsidized bed in C ward or comms hospital and take their chances there....
[11:45 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Have a heart ,Bravoππ
[11:48 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Because that is the best way for them/you to find test out if their/your hypothesis/suggestion of offering the same product/service at a lower price is feasible.
The best way to answer such questions is to walk a day in those shoes.
Who knows, they/you may be right. Maybe charging $50 for the PCR test will still net a huge profit. Then they/you will make millions....and you can thank me later for that π
[11:49 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: But not many unvax r like that la. Many unvax r by choice and not homeless. They just believe fake news.
[11:49 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: These r the ones govt shd smack on the head.
[11:50 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Your thought process is not compatible with a discussion forum. You are suggesting spending a day running research and feasibility studies before making requests or suggestions.
[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The point is that it shouldn't net a big profit.
[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Just comparing Apples with Oranges .. like what you were doing... similarly fruits, but yet not exactly the same thing at the same time
[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Health crises are not there to exploit and make money from.
[11:52 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Tests in Singapore are $160 same test in France is $80. Just asking why. Maybe the mentality here is to make a big profit from it. If so, that is wrong
[11:53 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Apples would be PCR test, Orange would be Botox.
[11:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Without having full knowledge of the operational and pricing mechanism, I can't confidently explain why it is $160 and not $50 (or $300?). So, I suggest the person who is challenging the pricing, might be convinced if he/she wants to know for sure, that he/she is not being ripped off. Not me. I was not the one who asked for the price to be lowered. If I want a product/service/travel, I find out the price. If I agree, I pay. If not, I walk away.
[11:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: why not?
[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Last I checked, it is not run by a Charity
[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: I don't think anytime was asking you personally. Maybe no need to reply if you don't have a helpful and knowledgeable contribution to make?
[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: It's about not making a profit from a public health crises. Not charity either. Just 'at cost'.
[11:59 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: When companies are incentivized to make profit from natural disasters, they are not motivated to help avoid and resolve them.
[0:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: No one is saying they should lose money either!
[0:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Apples would be "PCR test in Singapore", Oranges would be "PCR test in France"
PCR tests are not standard/uniform. There is more than 1 standard test. A bit like a Business degree from NUS versus one from Universiti Malaya ... the way the test is conducted, results obtained etc etc ... all makes a difference\
[0:01 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: I'll have had many tests and they were all fortunately conducted and treated the same way, so we get reliable results. If everyone does then differently we might not.
[0:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: It's nothing like University degrees!!
[0:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Anyway, no offence but I think this is a fruitless conversation. Lol
[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Wow.. I saw what you did there with the pun ... sweet! π
[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Thank you π
[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Travelling is optional
[0:09 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Not defending the Pharmaceutical companies or anything. but of the billions invested into R&D of thousands of drugs/therapy .. only a very small percentage make it to market and even fewer are blockbusters that pay for the failed experiments.
That is how the industry survives. It is also why, there are many diseases today, that are without treatment - because it is not commercially viable - and Charities like the Bill Gates Foundation (or sometimes Govt?) needs to step in to fill the void.
I am not an expert...but I have read some literature on this topic in the past and found the arguments/rationales persuasive/reasonable.
[0:10 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Technology has made business travel less necessary, especially if operational meetings can be conducted online. It is only necessary when a physical presence is vital to the success of that activity.
[0:12 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: The other plus side of unnecessary business travel is that air travel is reduced which means a lower carbon footprint.
[0:13 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: +1
[0:14 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually it's the same for any industry. If U artificially force the price down, u will just have less producers cos it's not as profitable anymore.
And today, we need more ART producers, not less...
[0:16 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: We were exploring why Singapore is twice the cost of France for a PCR test.
[0:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Cost to govt or cost to patients?
[0:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Agreed. This came up regarding reuniting families after 2 years being apart, and that a $160 PCR test is expensive. I see that ART is now accepted, so perhaps not relevant anymore.
[0:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Patients
[0:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Ah then gotta check level of govt subsidies. Our govt usually quite careful with subsidies. Europe is different system, govt pays for most of healthcare.
[0:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actual selling cost of e test from manufacturer to govt is not that different. Maybe only difference might b bulk discount cos France is much bigger country.
[0:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Anyway, my point is not about whether the profit margin is justifiable. My point is that given that there are still risks from the Pandemic, especially with air travel, I am not against some additional disincentives to discourage unnecessary travel.
Besides, everyone will have their own preferred price.... someone else would say $80 is still too expensive... why not free π
[0:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Dan: Efficacy of vaccination decrease at an average of 6% every 2 months, there will be a time when having 2 vaccinations doesn't mean u r fully vaccinated. What is the G gg to do when most of the Singaporeans wears off the vaccination effective period?
[0:22 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Give out pills. From Pfizer I think. π¬
[0:23 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-antiviral-pill-could-be-available-early-in-2022-if-approved-12464491
[1:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When we are in Endemic stage, i think it’s only fair that we be responsible for the cost of our own health/vax requirements.
I imagine G/MOH role will be to make it accessible to the general public. Usually Govt hospitals being large buyers, will have some bargaining power in terms of pricing. That in turn will influence prices in the private healthcare sector.
[1:06 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: It will expire?
https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/IDA1976-S273-2021?DocDate=20211012&ProvIds=Sc1-XX-Sc1-#Sc1-XX-Sc1
[1:08 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Anti-viral pills for Covid19 is a great scientific advancement. It takes away the anxiety of shots, and can be applied more widely.
[1:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +Dan: My point is it gives a false sense of security when we still check full vaccination for entering malls and restaurants. When in fact, the vaccination efficacy alr worn off.
[1:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: The website says it will expire in 1 year?
Not sure if I understand correctly
[1:26 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Do u know tat there r people given a choice, may not even wanna travel? I m referring to those who have to work overseas, it's not about intermittent travels for business trips since nowadays zoom meetings can supercede that.
[1:31 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Just some feedbacks. Seniors are sharing those who wants to work at polyclinics as poly customers service agents are not welcomed because of their age. The resident specifically shared that they tend to employ a certain Foreign Talent who are good at customer service but lack the ability to speak the dialects. Maybe the needful agency wants to check if there is fair hiring π❤️
[1:31 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: B-cell immunity (gained from vaccinations) tend to wane over time. The "decay" varies as well. The advantage is that it activates quickly.
T-cell immunity is lifelong. This can only be gained when our own immune system is triggered/activated when it encounters the virus. The downside of T-cell immunity is that it tends to be slow to activate and it is only works against the specific virus. Mutation of the virus will result in our T-cells not being able to recognise and fight it.
That is why we need both the vaccination to trigger the quick response defense, and eventually to encounter/catch the CV19 virus (hopefully we are otherwise healthy when that happens) in order to trigger the slower responding, but lifelong, defense against it.
[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Rama: What excuse is the employer giving for this discrimination prejudice!?
[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: How about get the inactivated virus vaccines like SINOVAC or SINOPHARM?
[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not a medical expert. This is just my own understanding of how it works based on what I had read about immunity/vaccinations. Layman level knowledge only
[1:34 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I had wondered about that too.. but apparently, it is not as effective since the vaccine is based on the inactivated virus. We need to face the "full strength" virus to build the stronger response,
[1:35 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Facing the CV19 face on without being vaccinated first increases the risk of falling seriously ill
[1:36 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Sorry, tat was not the point. If base on ur reasoning, for example, dun say rich people, just someone who can afford a bowl of laksa for $5/-, will it be reasonable to pay an additional $3 for tabao? I m sure if can afford $5 a bowl of laksa, sure can afford $3 for tabao materials! There is correlation to the issue about charging $160 to $200 PCR test compared to an air ticket or to the magnitude of wealth.
[1:40 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: how CV19 defers from the common flu (although they are similar) is that the common flu is "designed" to be more effective against our UPPER respiratory tract. Hence, the sore throat, stuffy /runny nose etc.
CV19 attacks our LOWER respiratory tract ie. closer to the lungs. The resulting inflammation and byproduct of fighting the invasion results in compromised lung capacity and function. This can cause a sudden deterioration of the patient and is why it can be more deadly compared to the common flu.
Again ... my layman understanding based on what I have read from various sources... please do not take as medical advise/truth without doing own fact-checking π
[1:42 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: $5 laksa, $3 tabao .. are you saying PCR $160, Air Ticket 5/3 x $160 = $267?
[1:44 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: By the way, Food is a necessity for everyone, Air Travel probably not ... or at most, is necessary only for some
[1:46 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: If u have a chance to go to china during this pandemic for valid reasons, all PCR and serology tests are done free to both Chinese Nationals and foreigners coming in from overseas. Of course during the quarantine period, one has to do about 4-6 swab tests. I din expect PCR tests to be free in spore, but for every trip two-way trip, it will cost approximately $500-$600 in total.
[1:50 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: And strict quarantine in their assigned hotels with no possibility of leaving the room .. full on "imprisonment" for 21 days if I am not wrong π I will gladly pay $160 instead π
[1:51 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Just wondering, when people ask that the Govt foot the bill or make something free ... do they know who eventually will have to pay for it? π
[1:51 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Tats if u have a choice.
[1:52 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Did anyone ask for the Govt to foot the bill? Hmmm ...,
[1:52 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Great assumptions
[1:53 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Yup. No choice in China's case.. what I meant is as a traveler... that will be part of my consideration.
[1:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: A lot of people say make it free, or make it cheaper .... who else are they asking if not hte Govt... because there are only 2 payees here ... people or Govt .. .unless you are saying the Corporation .. then I am almost certain that if that were the case, the Corporation will just say, "ok, then I won't sell you the product" π
[1:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: I m just sharing my experiences and felt that swab test charges seem to be quite expensive in Singapore, that's all, of course as compared to many countries.
[1:58 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Don't mean to be argumentative, but you did feedback that our current charges is too high and that it should be lowered.
[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Yes, I did.
[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Anyway, life goes on....
[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: In general, for both ART and PCR, it's not unaffordable (i.e. really no money to pay(
It's just that SGreans don't enjoy paying for something new, and not required compared to the past. So understandable to complain la.
Maybe just see it like an airport tax. Suck thumb and move along.
[2:01 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I am saying no need to lower the price .. especially (and in case) the Govt has to subsidise something non-essential in my opinion
[2:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Sometimes e same people who complain also happen to have e latest iphone. π€·♂️
[2:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Singaporeans mostly want others - usually Govt - to pay for them π Maybe because they feel that they are paying a lot in taxes and/or that our Ministers are overpaid and somehow that equates to Govt should make everything else cheap for them/us (since we already pay for the most "expensive" Ministers in the World) πππ
[2:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: π
[2:06 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Govt shd subsidize if it's part of a larger containment strategy - like ARTs... Which have been given out free. Elective travel is really individual choice la. Self pay is fair.
[3:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: As self-test has become the norm, it wud only be logical to make them affordable and easily accessible to the masses.
Is ther a need to subsidise? Ultimately, let's not forget ... Everyone here is a taxpayer in one way or other.
Rather, ramp up the supply, lower the price, restrict hoarding, so tt everyone can do their part to be socially responsible.
As for PCR tests... If one can afford to travel, one shd be able to put up w whatever is reqd... Of course, if it's possible to lower the price of the PCR test, then tt wud be good.
For me, I'm in no hurry to travel altho I do miss it. But keeping safe is my no. 1 option so restricting some social pleasures for now is fine w me.
For me, the "high" cost of the PCR test acts as a deterrent for me…
[3:20 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Again... Gov / MOH / MMTF...
Pls look into making the ART kits more affordable! π³
[3:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1 i have brought this suggestion up before as well.
[3:23 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: MOH / MTF...
Pls clarify.
I m now utterly confounded by this dining number restriction thing.
So, is it 2, or is it 5?
Restaurant only or restaurant + indoor food court (in mall)?
Or is it non air-con (standalone) food court also counted?
I m lost w the new rules on dining!
[3:30 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: superman or superwoman if survive
[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: maybe they want more active citizens to voice it out haha
[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: active participation
[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: my answer is depends, let the SMM decide haha
[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: maybe instruction is ambiguous because there are so much permutations
[3:36 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: And wat abt children of various age grps?
The directive is very confusing.
Perhaps, MTF can gv some illustrative examples to accompany their new directive...
Like...
Restaurants,
Add... "refers to / includes"
cafes, food courts (enclosed / air-con) dining spaces
Like...
Add "includes / excludes"
Vaccinated children from ? to ? yo
Children of ? yo
and so on.
Or
2 Vacc Adults + 1 child <12 allowed
.....
ππ»this cud make it easier for even the not so educated to understand.
[3:39 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Agree.
Maybe take 2-3 'common' permutations of average households dining out?
[4:29 pm, 10/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
F&B outlets should check address on NRIC, Singpass for dine-in groups larger than 2, say authorities. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dine-same-household-check-proof-residence-restaurants-2303116
[4:37 pm, 10/11/2021] +linyuxiang: pov of a student: tbh, it is still a high risk for families to dine out with cases remaining stable at 3000 a day. Despite looking at the transmission rate, i would rather go full on for the remaining period considering we are used to these measures for a month alrdy.
[4:38 pm, 10/11/2021] +linyuxiang: Get ready for an uptick in case numbers from nxt week onwards which will bring us back to square one again
[5:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree
[5:05 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: I guess default WFH should be until next year
[5:11 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Seniors are sharing those who wants to work at polyclinics as poly customers service agents are not welcomed because of their age
>> Is this a fact? ie. the polyclinic revealed that as the reason for not hiring the person; or is this an opinion/conjecture because the applicant feels/thinks he/she is 100% qualified for the job in every other aspect. Which makes me wonder, what kind of attitude these "seniors" would have presented/revealed during the interview/hiring process π
The resident specifically shared that they tend to employ a certain Foreign Talent who are good at customer service but lack the ability to speak the dialects
Was the polyclinic hiring a translator or a customer service exec? Is it possible that the hiring Mgr is prioritising "good …
[5:11 pm, 10/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Expected I guess
[5:15 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: The stance of having people (unvax) to pay for hosp bills if they are infected with covid is a wrong and unethical move. The vaccines are NOT approved yet and are under sg equivalent of an "EUA". This is the reason why vaccines are not mandated. If so, why adopt such coercive measures towards the unvaccinated? Many doctors, scientists and even frontline workers are unvaxed in the world. Why would not taking vaccination for fear of health reasons be bad when it is a choice of people to take ownership of their lives and health. Hospitalisation subsidies etc is a PUBLIC good paid for by ALL taxpayers. And unvax people are also taxpayers. Many of these could be old and belong to the pioneer generations who have sacrificed for sg.
[5:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: "Scientists keep getting Covid-19 predictions wrong: Here's why, Health News & Top Stories - The Straits Times" https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/scientists-keep-getting-covid-19-predictions-wrong-heres-why
[5:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: New Covid-19 dining-in rule draws families, but some groups are turned away for not meeting criteria
Some families took the opportunity to eat together in restaurants as the new dining-in rule for households kicked in on Wednesday (Nov 10).
More https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/new-covid-19-dining-in-rule-draws-families-but-some-groups-turned-away-for-not
[5:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Thomas: There are societal and economic cost to country due to hindrance of this minority. It is a mistaken stance that since they pay tax, they should get the benefits. But who pays for the economic cost while majority of population follows the instruction.
[5:25 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: Don't blame them. Israel had onenof the highest percentage if vaxed and yet they had an eruption in covid cases until the boosters came. The fact is that vaccines last for 2 to 3 months (high efficacy) and then start waning. If vax n boosters are the way to go, then we would need to boost multiple times a year. Every booster by itself is an eua, meaning that it is itself a risk. We are behaving as if boosters have no risks to people.
[5:43 pm, 10/11/2021] +N: The time to be worried is now. Because not just the measures are eased, the tracing and recovery protocols are eased. The risk for the average person on the street is higher, not lower.
[5:45 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When will your kind learn that the argument that just because vaxxed persons can still get infected by CV19 shows that the vax is not effective is nonsense?
Vaccinations do not prevent you from falling sick, What it does, is (1) boost our immunity and defense against falling sick and (2) if/when the virus does break through our defenses, hopefully, with the help of the vax, we do not get as ill and recover faster.
Throughout human and medical history, regular vaccinations to supplement/boost the efficacy of earlier vaccinations is common. Rather than believe in nonsense conspiracy theories, do spend some time learning and catching up on FACTS.
Just remember... there is a very very very obvious reason why you and I are not doctors, specialists or scientis…
[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: I'm a ptoud singaporean contributing to REACH. I have no idea what you mean by my kind.
[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: The ultimate vax is getting COVID-19 and survive π€£π€£π€£
[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree
[5:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: the kind who does not believe in Science
[5:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Chooses to believe in some unverified nonsense from some made up profile/person
[5:59 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes it is. But our own immune response does not react fast enough to counter the rate of infection of the CV19 virus...hence the need for the vaccine as a first line of defense while our immune system responds to the invading virus
[5:59 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: This is not a new/novel idea... that is how ALL vaccines work
[6:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: MOH has just started this new series: Doctor Explains, where we have our healthcare experts answer popular questions on COVID-19 matters.
1️⃣: Common questions about COVID-19 vaccination
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sghealthministry/videos/3067765970157968
IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV156UeF-Aq/
YT: https://youtu.be/0OKTQ5Gad54
2️⃣: Vaccination for Pregnant Women
FB: https://www.facebook.com/sghealthministry/videos/3027774440886164
IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWAMKYSFsgx/
YT: https://youtu.be/CLVPDWR6Sco
[6:46 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Jamie Bethany Koh: My input is
- for 5 to dine together must have same address on their ic?
- is a lot more work and checks for f&b establishments to do
[6:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Like I said earlier...
Pls make the new rules clearer.. w pictorials
Or a video?
[6:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +Jamie Bethany Koh: Apologies if this has been raised earlier
[6:58 pm, 10/11/2021] +Rama: Agree
[7:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Smiley Face: 10 November, 2021
To: Distinguished Ministers and All Honorable Members
Lao Tzu:
Those who know don't talk.
Those who talk don't know.
Be like the Tao.
It can't be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or harmed,
honored or brought into disgrace.
It gives itself up continually.
That is why it endures.
The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have,
the less self-reliant people will be.
For governing a country well
there is nothing better than moderation.
The mark of a moderate man
is freedom from his own ideas.
Tolerant like the sky,
all-prevailing like sunlight,
firm like a mountain,
supple like a tree in the wind,
he has no destination in view
and makes use of anything
life happens to bring his way.
Nothing is impossible for him.
Because he has let go,
he can care for the people's welfare
as a mother cares for her child.
News:
New Covid-19 dining-in rule draws families, but some groups are turned away for not meeting criteria
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/new-covid-19-dining-in-rule-draws-families-but-some-groups-turned-away-for-not
[7:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
=====
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