REACH 291 - What are your thoughts on the renewed efforts to reinforce healthcare capacity and recognise the contributions of healthcare workers? How can we better support our healthcare system and medical professionals during this time? (SK)
08 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:51 am, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[10:00 am, 08/11/2021] +REACH: ๐ข Topic ๐ข
There are now more than 2,300 beds across 17 sites to cater for higher-risk Covid-19 patients who require close observation but are not so ill that they need to be hospitalised, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on 6 Nov (Sat).
These Covid-19 treatment facilities (CTFs) were set up over the past two months to reduce the load on public hospitals and take in more stable patients who need further monitoring, such as seniors who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms but have chronic illnesses and are at risk of severe illness.
๐ฌ What are your thoughts on the renewed efforts to reinforce healthcare capacity and recognise the contributions of healthcare workers? How can we better support our healthcare system and medical professionals during this time?
There will be more than 3,000 beds from next week, with the new 721-bed facility at the F1 Pit Building starting operations on Nov 9. More of such facilities are in the pipeline.
"We expect to add even more CTF capacity, reaching around 4,000 beds by the end of this month," Mr Ong said on Facebook.
The latest announcements come amid news that about 60 per cent of the 219 intensive care unit (ICU) beds reserved for Covid-19 patients are currently occupied, and around 1,500 healthcare workers resigned in the first half of this year.
Nursing students across Singapore are also being tapped to supplement the healthcare workforce, with their attachments with healthcare facilities, such as hospitals, extended or brought forward to an earlier date.
To further recognise the contributions of healthcare workers, about 100,000 public healthcare workers involved in the national response to the pandemic will receive a special award amounting to $4,000 each for their courage and invaluable work, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said on 5 Nov (Fri).
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/2300-beds-set-up-at-17-facilities-in-spore-to-care-for-higher-risk-covid-19
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-treatment-facility-for-seniors-at-f1-pit-building-operational-from-nov-9
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/authorities-tapping-nursing-students-across-singapore-to-supplement-weary
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/hospitals-in-spore-find-ways-to-lighten-nurses-load-to-manage-staff-shortage
๐ https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/100000-public-healthcare-workers-involved-in-covid-19-fight-to-get-4000-each
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[10:11 am, 08/11/2021] +DC: Fully support the new measures. I know the gov is trying to adopt a calibrated approach. But even more beds should be built. Cos this virus is still evolving and we will never know.
Also, while it is good to involve student nurses in this trying times, it is important to take care of the safety and health of these students. 2nd,if we have outbreaks in hospitals, this would surely spread in the local households (of these student nurses) and vive versa. We may want to take precautions and put immediate family members of medical professionals under early surveillance for covid.
[10:40 am, 08/11/2021] +65 9753 5838: This can only be a short term measure. How do build a sustainable nursing team that could support our aging population and other medical needs? What is the right nurse to patient ratio in a standard C ward?
[10:46 am, 08/11/2021] +65 9777 0679: Increase pay loh.
[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Denmark natural immunity infection not very effective.
Resurgence of covid again.
http://www.news.cn/english/2021-10/21/c_1310258437.htm
[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Coronavirus in Norway: The Latest News on the COVID-19 Outbreak.
Norway natural infection immunity not working properly.
Like Denmark, covid resurgence again.
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/coronavirus-in-norway/
[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
France's Macron to address the nation as COVID cases surge.
"The epidemic is picking up speed again in Europe, Europe has again become the epicentre of the epidemic," Attal told reporters.
Living with covid - a free for all freedom relying on 2 jab high vaccination rate and natural infection disregarding social distancing is a big flop.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/frances-macron-address-nation-covid-cases-surge-2294676
[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Analysis: With boosters, masks and Green Pass, Israel sees a COVID-19 wave in retreat.
Only Israel 3rd booster jab show covid-19 Delta retreat.
Denmark and Norway natural infection immunity fail.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/with-boosters-masks-green-pass-israel-sees-covid-19-wave-retreat-2021-10-15/
[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Israel Rt < 1 - indicate Delta infected spread to less than 1 person - indicating 3rd booster shot has defeated Delta from spreading.
[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Conclusion:-
1. Israel 3 jabs is the only model that works against Delta covid pandemic.
As it produces a Superhuman Immunity = 2 jab vaccination immunity + 3rd jab booster vaccination immunity ---- Pass!
2. Denmark and Norway Superhuman Immunity = Natural infection immunity + 2 jabs vaccination immunity - fails.
[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Luckily, Singapore is adopting the Middle Path approach by ramping up 3rd jab booster in living with covid - and not prematurely declaring endemic with free for all freedom Day approach adopted by EU.
2. Else our infection number will hit the roof, overwhelming our hospitals and suffer large number of death.
[11:01 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore boy, 4, in ICU with rare case of COVID-linked inflammatory syndrome.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-boy-icu-rare-inflammatory-syndrome-covid-misc-012751909.html
[11:01 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/children-covid19-multi-system-inflammatory-syndrome-4-cases-kkh-2295971
4 'rare' cases of multi-system inflammatory syndrome in kids found to date: MOH.
[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And seems like these children seem mild or no symptoms but then the virus suddenly strike them worse.
[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Adrian: 1) it's good to ramp up facilities, but it's not sustainable to manage a greater number of facilities with the same amount of healthcare workers. Totally support the move to recognise them further ๐๐ป
2) separately, these CTF facilities are also at huge cost to our govt budget. With the mainstreaming of HRP, hope the govt will continue to leverage home recovery, so we dont need to manage so many facilities (which also require healthcare workers to manage).
[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why the younger children must be vaccinated. And why is the vaccination still not approved?
[11:08 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think government must hold the restrictions measures and not relax further.
Until children get their vaccination and the hospital number, death go down.
The weekly infection ratio go below 1 is not a good indicator - because many who test positive on their own is not reflected in the weekly ratio.
[11:10 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/europe-covid-19-cases-rising-grave-concern-who-2291326
Europe faces real threat of COVID-19 resurgence: WHO Europe head.
[11:10 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Britain allows early booking of COVID-19 booster shots to speed up roll out. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-britain-booster-shots-allow-early-booking-speed-2295106
[11:13 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Ramping up booster shot to the larger population look like is the only way to defeat our current Delta wave - as proven by Israel scenario.
[11:25 am, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: Alamak , today my neighbour got drilling sia.
[11:25 am, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: maybe they shld not allow reno, when everyone is WFH
[11:27 am, 08/11/2021] +BL: Agreed
[11:37 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Our experts feel that we are not ready to relax restrictions measures.
[11:56 am, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, they always said 1-2 weeks of lower than 1 infection rate, or when icu % is better
[0:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: What's the hurry to relax the restrictions? I don't feel restricted now at all. Do you?
[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: WFH by default still place
[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: unless gov want to ICU to be full
[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: *WFH by default still please
[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: can open up group of up to maybe 4 pax per day?
[0:05 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Until our Booster shot roll out to the population.
Until we see the RT < 1 like Israel chart.
Until we see infection number drop like Israel chart.
Until we see hospitals number, ICU and death fall dramatically like Israel.
Then we are ready to relax restrictions measures.
Else we should stay status quo.
[0:11 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 except for boosters
[0:13 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Without booster and nudging unvaccinated to vaccinate - we will end up like Europe - up and down, up and down.
Only Israel 3 jab vaccination is the only successful model in the world.
[0:13 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
It is math and science.
[0:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, can't see friends.
[0:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: My kid can't do his singing lessons, or play football
[0:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Many kids aren't attending school
[0:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: really?? thought schools are back
[0:19 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yep, my son class is 1/4 less than normal his best friend been away for 3months
[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: When they cancelled the exams many parents didn't see the point of attending
[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Some concerned parents prefer to keep their unvax kids at hm, for their safety.
[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, I guessed they aren't worried about traffic accidents only covid.
[0:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Best keep them at home for ever. Although not good for their health and well being.
[0:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Also school is miserable right now. No socialising at all. My kids hates it.
[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Oh!! I didn't know that! That might explain why I'm seeing a lot of kids in shopping centres even though it's still a school term. But that's also odd right, you pull the kids out of school cos scared covid, then you bring them to malls??
[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yep, very odd.
[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: I also think, no exams = no school in some parents mind. After all, that's all they seem to do there
[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: ๐๐
[0:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Right on! Complaints, complaints. Restrictions too harsh. And yet, malls are packed. So, where are the restrictions again?
[0:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: No restrictions in malls for vax
[0:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: But there is more to life than malls.
[0:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Or maybe not right now, which is why they are packed!
[0:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Yah lor. Even the dining "restrictions" also weird. That artificial split into 2, but still ordering dishes for 4 and passing the dishes across tables. If anything, they should just release that part lah. The current lack of enforcement is making a mockery out of the rule anyway.
[0:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Besides ramping up beds & increasing measures on the healthcare front, let's not forget the home front, ie.
* the individual's responsibility *
Other than observing the new regular SMM measures, wat abt regular self-testing?
Make ART kits *cheaper !!
If they can be available for less than $2 in Germany, why does it cost 5x to 6x more here?
For those of us who r reqd to self test regularly, it gets really expensive to keep doing so, even tho I know it's our responsibility to keep everyone, incl ourselves, safe.
If u can make the ART kits cheaper, ther wud be more incentive for the individual to do regular self testing as part of our 'daily lives' in living w CoVid.
Dun forget to also ensure tt ther is either enuff supply or put a restriction on number of units one can buy, when u bring the price down...
Knowing SGreans, ppl wl then become kiasu & start hoarding. Then we're bk to square one... When those of us who really need to use it, can't get enuff stocks of it.... ๐คฆ๐ผ♀️
[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: As in the parents bringing young children to malls. If they're concerned about kids not being vaxxed and not sending them to school, then why is there no equal concern for kids not vaxxed, shoukding bring them out to go pah pah zao
[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Yes!! Make it cheaper!!!!
[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: +1
[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: This type of parents need their heads examined. ๐คฆ๐ผ♀️
[0:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: *shouldn't bring. (typo)
[0:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: This type also sth wrong w their brains.. I hv seen parents pushing pram w very young babies, like 18mo, unmasked, walking ard malls, crossing roads, happily enjoying life like 'normal'.
I guess they think tt since the 'new normal' is living W CoVid, they may as well live w tt too!
๐คท♀️
[0:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +dot dot dot: Always Be Positive & Be Patient :-)
[0:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: On the flip side of the coin, we can't possibly be morose forever & live under this 'cloud' of rising infections & CoVid hanging over us.
[0:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: YAH!!! Exactly!! Or allowing their kids to do the half mask or chin mask like some stubborn uncles we see. Or kids mimicking the parents of pulling their masks down to cough then put back. ๐คฆ๐ป♀️
[0:37 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: +1
[0:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: It is 'amazing' to see how 'diverse' the human popn is....
Such socially irresponsible & selfish people.. ...
[0:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I was driving to Suntec last week and I saw this Caucasian family of 7 or 8, from the very young in pram to the old with white hair, ALL half mask/chin mask. Sigh...
[0:39 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: ๐ฐ ๐๐
[0:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Other than empowering the ordinary citizen with the power to enforce the proper masking rule, wat else can we do?
๐คท♀️
It takes a lot of courage to walk up to these ppl to even ask them why they r behaving like this!
We run the risk of getting spit in the face! ๐คฆ๐ผ♀️๐ฐ
[0:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Nah, I just can't understand how we're almost 2 years in and there are people who still don't know how to wear mask properly or they just refuse to wear it properly.
[0:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: More likely the latter.
They either just dun care any more or can't be bothered.
[1:07 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: After 2 months of discussed of ART stIl remain as expensive as it was , Government seems not care the people"s on the ground thoughts at all
How's Terrible๐คฆ♂️๐คฆ♂️
[1:12 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: India and japan has gone down drastically without boosters.
[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 yes make it much much cheaper pls.
[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: ya lor, can Gov or retailers share why in SG, the ART kits are so expensive?
[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: Even CNA in Talking point also said in Germany, it is much cheaper then in SG
[1:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: True. I cannot find the courage to tell my neighbour who's an old. Senior to put on his masks. But again, he may have a condition.
Also, when u talk to them, u r increasing your exposure and risks. Better not.
[1:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I think pharma is generally ex in Singapore. Health supplements also. Eg Suisse, the price in SG is 4x the price in Australia even if you take into account exchange rate and courier shipping.
[1:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I know masks are uncomfortable, I get "maskne". But hey, guess what else is uncomfortable? Ventilators.....
[1:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: All these brands got to pay 40% or more to retailers watson, ntuc etc for shelf space. Buying online or generic brands is better. But in this case i want the hsa stamp of approval. So..... Yah. We need much cheaper kits. Regular testing in my mind is more important.
[1:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: online is also about the same price. https://www.lazada.sg//products/i1886455645-s10062873193.html?spm=a2o42.cart.0.0.56c27a93KN4Us8&urlFlag=true
[1:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: If you buy in bulk online, i saw some with $7-8 per piece.
[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: $7 per pc ... Still expensive.
It has to be affordable , like $1-$2 per pc.
Like tt, selling them in bulk shd not be difficult.
Only prob is Kiasu ppl who hoard without thinking abt those who really nd it, to comply w work reqt, wher we hv to pay for our own test kits.
[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: We can simply going to CC or RC to buy less cheaper price,
Why can't MOH to do it
They are able to set up more more BEDS in F1 Complex
Why they dosent have the initiative to set up place such as CC & RC for us to buy Cheaper & Affordable ART kit
For low income families ,
Just compliment them for collection for free
At least doing ART Test becoming of daliy stuff to do so
[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
With many death, spike up and down like Europe.
I think Singapore don't want this
[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: ๐๐ป๐๐ป๐๐ป
[1:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: Really? I didn't know it's cheaper at rc or cc. How much? Paiseh.
[1:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: ART cannot be expensive then our Mee Rebus or Chicken Rice
Otherwise hard to afford it meant less testing
As simple as that
[1:32 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: MOH should selling us Directly to public
instead at Watson or Guardian or Unity
So the price can be cheaper & affordable
I suggest $1:50 the maximum selling price
Low income 10¢ compliment price
[1:32 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore don't want such high number of infection and death.
So 3rd booster shot is our answer.
[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I bet Singapore won't want to see this as what had happen to India.
[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: Dr Leoong hoe nam more test needed
if we want to go back pre-covid time
[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree
[1:37 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Definitely Singapore don't want to go through what Japan has gone through.
[1:37 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree absolutely. Terrible waste of lives.
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Already bring up that it should be max $1 per kit
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +XaniceAfcai: Not only to mall, i saw lot of kids and Caregiver in the park and neighbours playground. ๐ค
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: A condition makes it more important to wear a mask!
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Japan hospitals have to let people die when hospitals are overwhelmed.
Singapore don't want to see this.
[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1
[1:43 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: That's why, Government know what we want to express ,
However Government not doing much enough
What can we do ahh๐ ♂️๐ ♂️
[2:08 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/07/uk-government-could-restrict-travel-people-who-refuse-covid-boosters?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
[2:08 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: We keep raising the topic until someone takes action.
I'm sure ther r more groups of Reach feedback like this.
If we can think of this to say, ther wl be others who r like-minded.
[2:10 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: At the start, gov shd initiate & regulate, to prevent over hoarding, then once things get gg, can lessen the control... Sth like tt.
Having them avail at same price at CC & RC is also a good idea.
[2:12 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Let's get the national popn used to doing self testing, as part of living w endemic, like in Germany.
[2:14 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: The general healthy popn needs to maintain consistency in health too,
Not just focussing on the infected (minority).
[2:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Yeah only $1.50
[3:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Life in Singapore has become bland and tasteless, like when you lose sense of smell/taste with COVID. Limited social interactions, continued WFH and other SMM continue to take an invisible toll on the schools, communities, people and businesses since no one is measuring its impact. Hospitals are already overwhelmed by people who aren't high risk but scared of dying. Numb to the situation, since government wants to achieve the lowest COVID death rate in the world - good for them - lets just keep the restrictions going for as long as needed for them to get their medal and everyone else pays the price. Good job.
[3:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Maybe we get FB to pilot their Metaverse in Singapore so we can start living in an alternate reality from home. Better than just binging Netflix.
[4:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: True - I found it very motivating and good for the soul to spend a month in Europe with no meaningful covid restrictions. If you are able to get out of SG for a bit of time, I highly recommend it. Much as I love our Country - it's small, sheltered, and limited place to be for nearly 2 years.
[4:14 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/europe-could-see-another-half-a-million-covid-19-deaths-by-february-who
Europe could see 'another half a million Covid-19 deaths' by February: WHO.
[4:14 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Maybe that's what our government has (knowingly or not) conditioned our people to become - scared, timid people accepting of our lot, content with the limitations imposed on us, no desire or energy to think harder, to try something different or out of the box.
[4:16 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I think those who prefer Europe freedom life can move there - whether they are not afraid to risk their lives to covid.
As for Singapore, the government had done a good well balance job - securing our livelihood and our safety.
[4:16 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: just stay home and interact with Netflix, online friends and social media. Don't need to know new people, don't need real friends in real life. maybe that's good enough for us.
[4:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yes Danny, you are the type that like to chase people who disagree with you away. Just want to live your tiny little life in your safe bubble. Just because you know how to spam news article don't make your opinions more worthy or right.
[4:19 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I am very happy with what the government are doing.
So are many people.
[4:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yes, so you guys can stay in your homes and stay safe. Don't stop people who want to live their lives from doing what they prefer.
[4:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Anyway I've given up on the MMTF. They have their considerations and probably need to hit their best-covid-death-rate KPI or whatever it is. Whatever we say here is useless.
[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The MTF and the PM have done an excellent job!
[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ya of cos. perfect job. Best in the world.
[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: everyone's happy. No happier people.
[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Those people in Europe, Japan and US must be so envious of Singapore.
[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Of course economy GDP doing very well.
Death rate one if the Lowest in the world.
Got pay rise!
Excellent job.
[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: everyone must be rushing to come migrate to Singapore.
[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Frog in the well. Look up to the sky.
[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oh yes you must be envious of Europe large number of death to covid.
[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oh indeed many ultra rich are moving their fund and office to Singapore.
[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: See the reality genius
[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ๐คฆ♂️
[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: no wonder you like lockdown
[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: you just read the news, you don't talk to people do you? no friends?
[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: no social circles?
[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: enjoy your online chat with your billionaire friends who are moving to SG
[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: peace out ✌️
[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Almost every other day I move around Singapore and meet people.
Any one stop from meeting people?
[4:31 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Some people here actually envy why Singapore don't follow Europe to clock more death!
Wow!
[4:32 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The Angel of Death.
[4:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Heaven forbid!
Being secluded & in a bubble for 2 years is bad enuff!
Dun wanna live in a virtual world with no sense of reality & being disassociated from real life, frens, REAL environment - all the sights, sounds & smell of it!
Can't wait for things to get better so tt I can travel worry -free again! ๐
[4:40 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm not following~
Land mass of europe 10.18 million square km.
Land mass of Singapore
728.6 square km.
Why draw comparison Singapore vs Europe continent?
[4:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: SG is small.. Gov doing good job so far... Cos I won't be able to do better...
It's hard to please everybody, so based on tt, I think the gov is on the right track ...
However, like I said, it's time to turn ur attn to the majority, Dun neglect the rest of your children while u hv pd so much attn to the sickly.
The rest of the general popn need looking into too...
Make self testing the norm...
Lower the prices of ART kits, as a start.
Continue w home flw up for those on home recovery.
Blah blah ..
[4:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: The seniors of my family are definitely suffering. While I worry abt their safety, they told me they are lonely. I'm torn actually~
[4:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Danny says if u let seniors who r staying by themselves be visited by grandkids, our covid death rates will be like Europe, Japan. Govt already doing great job don't complain.
[4:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: No just great job. The BEST in the world.
[4:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Envy of everyone else in the world.
[4:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Someone brought up the issue of ART being overpriced, we can agree that its definitely a necessity right now. Being priced at $8-10 is atrocious. Pls look into it.
[4:47 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Earlier, when Gov announced of the sale of test kit thru vending machines, I thought it will be cheaper.
[4:48 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Is it cheaper!?
[4:50 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Agree ART kits should b made cheaper thru subsidies. But it should be combined with loosening of SMM. There's no reason why people who r tested negative on ART should still b imposed restrictions.
[4:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Has to go in tandem but test kits price must be lowered.
[4:52 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Unfortunately MOH stop at dispensing ART kits for free to HRW patients and households, and not exploring sale of ART kits with vending machines.
[4:52 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Maybe not their job scope to manage sales.
[4:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Budget constraints I think . it's very expensive to provide to the whole population. They can't force the manufacturers to cut price tho cos then the manufacturers may not have the incentive to produce or sell to SG.
[4:55 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: thought got many incentive, so high prices in SG
[4:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: manufacturers are MNCs, they can sell to other places that are buying at higher prices.
[4:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: If govt force them to lower price.
[4:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Germany is low price to consumer because their govt subsidize the tests. they have universal coverage for their healthcare so their insurers/govt covers most of their healthcare costs.
[4:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: I guess high prices is because those made in Korea were fly in
[5:00 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/underpaid-and-overworked-malaysias-contract-doctors-revolt-amid-covid-19-surge
[5:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: As for today's topic, we are not the only facing manpower shortages.
[5:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: there's a baseline production cost and profit the manufacturers want... but if we want it to come down even more, then govt need to subsidize -> which is very high budget item for the govt. Plus larger countries like Germany can probably negotiate for larger bulk discounts. SG small.
[5:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: I am reading so many rants and disgruntled opinions but not many suggestions or solutions other than to open up and lift restrictions.
As usual, the loudest voices are from those who have no better ideas or solutions but only know how to amplify their anger and rile those unsuspecting and gullible people who don't stop to think twice.
If our hospitals are overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients, what will become of those who need regular medical attention?
I am speaking from personal experience. My elderly parents have a myriad of health conditions. My mother's doctor's appointment has been changed from July to September and now to November. The hospitals are overwhelmed as it is.
I believe the moderators of this forum take views and suggestions seriously a…
[5:06 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Perhaps we should look far to labour from the philippines and train them for our healthcare industry. CNA has been reporting on poor economy affecting livelihoods of people in Phillippines. It will be a win-win if we can forge such collaboration with other SEA countries and ease the work of our healthcare workers.
[5:13 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Well YT. Hate to break the news. PM Lee just tweeted.
[5:17 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
The current measures don't stop children and grandchildren from visiting the elderly.
The elderly also are not forbidden to go outside to dine and meet people as long as they are vaccinated.
Why people are spreading false information?
[5:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: the hospitals have been overwhelmed because the initial knee jerk reaction of MOH was too extreme and poorly calibrated. Beyond increasing hospital burden as it is by warding non-critical/high risk cases, it also led to irrational fear among the highly vaccinated population such that many rush to seek hospitalization even with mild/no symptoms.
It has led to a huge backlog of "elective" visits that the hospitals needed to clear subsequently. This is only alleviated when Min Ong announced the 1, 2, 3 protocol which made home recovery the mainstay of the current COVID management program - but the backlog remains and will still require time to clear.
Healthcare capacity is also impact by 50% increase in resignation YoY and one of the main drivers are foreign nurses/health workers who prefer to resign & go home because (1) we were in perpetual lockdown (2) borders were closed (3) severe workload due to the above.
Opening up - in a calibrated way - is important to help society go back to normalcy so that we can start recruiting new hospital staff back into the system, one of the things we need to do to expand capacity.
[5:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: I think recruiting and opening up are 2 separate issues that need not go hand in hand. One nurse wrote on fb they used to look after 5-7 patients per pax but that has doubled and nearly tripled with covid. And the patients, sometimes, are not your friendly type.
[5:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Well, as I said before, where are your solutions or suggestions? Don't get me wrong, I am not dead set against lifting of restrictions but I hope good sense will pevail rather than a total lifting.
Dan, sarcasm doesn't help here. Please do remember to be respectful. We can have differing views but being sarcastic won't help in any discussion.
[5:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Opening up does not necessarily equate to spike in hospitalization - make it clear profile of those at the highest risks, let individuals make the best decision for themselves and their families based on the risk profile of those staying at home. Triage patients based on accumulated experience/evidence on who's most likely to develop severe illness and right-site care. Keep encouraging booster jabs for those at highest risks. Let the rest of the world understand SG is no longer in lockdown/heightened alert etc.
End of the day, it's a judgment call. Will this incur more risk than the current measures? Yes. but the risk-reward tradeoff depends on what's at stake and a political judgement on who should bear the pain.
[5:34 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/germany-covid-19-incidence-rate-record-vaccination-2298271
Germany's seven-day COVID-19 incidence rate rises to record high
[5:34 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Europe endemic don't work.
[5:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Singapore, Malaysia to launch vaccinated travel lane between Changi Airport and KLIA
This was announced in a joint statement by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his Malaysian counterpart Ismail Sabri Yaakob after both leaders spoke on the phone on Monday (Nov 8).
More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/malaysia-singapore-vtl-vaccinated-travel-lane-covid19-2298486
[5:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm not opting for lifting of restrictions, I'm just stating the problems I have in my household, giving feedback to Reach abt the dilemma that I'm facing. I try to offer solutions when I can.
I agree that we may disagree and I'm not being sarcastic to tell u that we are opening VTL to Malaysia.
[5:43 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Singapore IS embarking on an endemic (living with COVID) strategy... so I guess you are saying that our govt is wrong?
[5:43 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Singapore is middle path.
Europe is free for all
[5:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: O now it's free for all... and Germany is 70% vaccinated... I dunno what you are talking anymore.
[5:44 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
None of my private chat group support what you say - and think you are reckless.
[5:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ๐
[5:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Its one thing to allow fully vaccinated seniors out of the homes, allowing visits yet justify why bloomberg forum may dine in 5 and Singaporeans can only dine in 2s because we may have senior citizens at home.
[5:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Glad to know that and glad to know we can differ in our views and be mature enough not to make things personal. I was named by you and thus my response. Thanks for the clarification.
[5:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: YT, I apologised. My wrong choice of words led to the misunderstanding.
[6:10 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Concept of "Middle Path" versus "Free for all endemic".
[6:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: babe118????
[6:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +Smiley face: Singapore, Malaysia to start VTL for quarantine-free air travel from Nov 29
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/singapore-malaysia-to-start-vtl-for-quarantine-free-air-travel-from-nov-29
[6:19 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Anyway, sorry Danny - don't need to explain further. I think we are on the extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to this topic, I don't think we will be able to convince each other of our respective positions. Lets not spam the rest of the group further. My fault for picking on your posts as I strongly disagree with your positions and analysis. But we can agree to disagree.
[6:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: It's all good! ๐
[6:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Sinovac is introduced into the national vaccination programme since 20 Oct 2021.
But to be considered as fully vaccinated, we need to receive 3 doses of vaccination. Between 1st dose and 2nd dose is 3-4 weeks and between 2nd dose and 3rd dose is 90 days. So the earliest we can complete the vaccination programme for sinovac is somewhere in late Feb 2022. Yet, MOM has asked unvaccinated employees to go for daily PETs from Jan 2022.
Can MOM provide special consideration for this group of ppl who is on track for full vaccination?
[6:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm fully vaccinated with booster shot with Pfitzer by the way, asking for ppl who are gg for Sinovac.
[6:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 fully agree. Pls show some consideration, compassion.
[6:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Ok, big deal now is when under 12 can be vaccinated. Asap please, or at least give us a target date for approval.
[6:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Once the kids are safe and can travel safely, play football etc, the world will look a bit brighter
[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ๐
[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dining-groups-five-vaccinated-same-household-restaurants-hawker-centres-2298466
[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: Hooray!!!!!!!
[6:32 pm, 08/11/2021] +Nee: Does this๐๐ผ๐๐ผ include kids who are still ineligible for vaccination on SG?
[6:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ๐
[6:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Latest News
➡️ Vaccination-differentiated measures to be expanded, starting with visits and activities at residential care homes
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/vaccination-differentiated-measures-expanded-starting-residential-care-homes-2298636
➡️ COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated 'by choice' will have to pay their own medical bills from Dec 8
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-unvaccinated-choice-pay-own-medical-bills-moh-2298601
➡️ Fully vaccinated household members can dine out in groups of five from Nov 10
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dining-groups-five-vaccinated-same-household-restaurants-hawker-centres-2298466
[6:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-to-decide-on-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids-aged-5-to-11-in-november?utm_campaign=stfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
Just saw this!
[6:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: It doesn't actually say but presumably there are few households with 5 adults so it's implicit that it includes kids?
[6:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: Seems like a contradiction to what min gan explained viz a viz bloomberg forum regulations.
[6:39 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
1. Well in REACH, participants are free to express their views in a brainstorming session.
2. I don't expect people's views must be identical to mine.
3. I am only focus in solutions and the corresponding consequences and suggest the solutions that benefit everyone with the least negative impact to people.
4. I am glad the government decides to pick my suggestion after comprehensively layout all the merits and demerits - to achieve a balance outcome to safeguard life and livelihood.
[6:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: ๐
[6:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: More Announcements
➡️ Recorded music to resume at F&B outlets, event zone sizes to increase from Nov 10
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/recorded-music-to-resume-at-fb-outlets-event-zone-sizes-to-increase-from-nov-10
➡️ Minimum age for Home Recovery from Covid-19 lowered from five to three years
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/minimum-age-for-home-recovery-from-covid-19-lowered-from-five-to-three-years
➡️ Those medically ineligible for Covid-19 vaccines to get concessions from Dec 1 if they have GP certification
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/those-medically-ineligible-for-covid-19-vaccines-to-get-concessions-from-dec-1-if-they
➡️ Singapore to decide on Covid-19 vaccine for kids aged 5 to 11 in November
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-to-decide-on-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids-aged-5-to-11-in-november
[6:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: I think it is still good for people to voice their concerns and frustrations here; it gives REACH a chance to understand the ground sentiment from various segments of the population
[6:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: ๐
[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We’d love to hear more from you! As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.
Megan ๐
[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: It helps the Gov to understand if the population is anywhere near the "breaking point" for policy implementation and changes
[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: "breaking point" for policy implementation and changes
[6:49 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635
[6:49 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: This is for MOH. What is it doing to review Pfizer's data that are relevant to an approval of pfizer's covid vaccine in singapore in view of the data integrity.
[6:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: I believe the real world evidence from vaccinated communities have confirmed mRNA efficacy but this report is good to call out lapses in the original trials.
[6:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: 5-a-side football among team sports to resume at some venues for vaxxed persons from Nov 10
Team sports for up to 10 fully vaccinated persons - including players and officials - can resume from Wednesday (Nov 10) at suitable ActiveSG sports centres and People's Association community clubs, the multi-ministry taskforce (MTF) handling the pandemic announced on Monday.
https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/5-a-side-football-among-team-sports-to-resume-at-some-venues-for-vaxxed-persons-from-nov-10
[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Restaurants allow 5 persons dine in.
Does it include food court?
[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Kids have always been exempted.
Guess the G/MOH has decided to leave their safety in the hands of their parents rather than do the parenting for them ๐คท♂️
[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Noted hawker centre and coffee shops still dine in 2 persons.
[6:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Yes
[6:59 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
You mean 5 persons can dine in at food court?
[6:59 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: How about household visitors?
[7:02 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Even kids cannot sit with both parents even now, good to see this small concession being allowed!
[7:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I read somewhere that still capped at 2
[7:04 pm, 08/11/2021] +Linda: Still remains as 2
[7:04 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: I think with the latest batch of news, the question of lift vs maintain restrictions is moot. Guess we spent one afternoon for nothing.
[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Calibrated opening or closing as scenario unfold is ok.
[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Every small step helps!
[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Agreed! This is a very logical move. Happy to see.
[7:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes. And this changes the current policy. Policemen used to wear shorts. Circumstances and policies change. The underlying intention did not.
[7:16 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: That's a bit over my head, but I think we are agreeing this is a sensible step in the right direction.
[7:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes. Looks like we are expressing our agreement in our own way. ๐
[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: The 2 diners per table made no sense to me.
[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: rule*
[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Only restaurant
[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Oh so food court still 2.
[7:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Sadly, yes!
[7:22 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Sigh.
Maybe got to wait another round
[7:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Last chance will be before year end!?
[7:24 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
I thought 21 Nov another round?
[7:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: That could still happen.
[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️ Danny ๅฟ:
Hopefully by then more people take their 3rd jab booster shot.
[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Bear in mind it will be a bi monthly adjustment as mentioned by MMTF
[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Yes
[7:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: School activities to gradually resume to support development, well-being of students: MOE
The Ministry of Education (MOE) said on Monday (Nov 8) that it would gradually resume more school activities, including Co-Curricular Activities (CCAs), in schools and Institutes of Higher Learning (IHLs).
More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-school-activities-gradually-resume-development-well-being-students-moe-2298806
[7:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[8:00 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan ๐
=====
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