REACH 293 - The expansion of Vaccinated Travel Lanes (VTLs) in the past few weeks have made travel - and with several options - possible. Have you made plans to travel for work and for leisure? What are your considerations and concerns about travelling overseas? (SK)
15 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
[10:02 am, 15/11/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
Most travellers can now take an antigen rapid test (ART) performed by a trained professional overseas before flying into Singapore. This applies to those returning via the vaccinated travel lane (VTL) and from countries in Categories II and III, which include Australia, Britain and the United States. Previously, all travellers, except those aged two and below, had to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to return and test negative within 48 hours before departure.
π¬ The expansion of Vaccinated Travel Lanes (VTLs) in the past few weeks have made travel - and with several options - possible. Have you made plans to travel for work and for leisure? What are your considerations and concerns about travelling overseas?
Singapore citizens and permanent residents do not have to apply for a vaccinated travel pass before travelling back. They can show either the physical or digital record of their vaccination before departure at the airline check-in counter and to the immigration authorities on arrival in Singapore.
Vaccinated Singapore residents will still be able to travel without quarantine to seven of the eight European countries that have vaccinated travel lanes (VTL) with the Republic. According to their border regulations, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Britain have yet to re-impose compulsory quarantine on travellers from Singapore despite the European Union (EU) raising its Covid-19 risk assessment of the Republic on Nov 9. Finland and Sweden, two other European countries that will start VTLs with Singapore from Nov 29, have also not introduced quarantine curbs on travellers from Singapore.
Singapore will also add three new vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs), with Malaysia, Sweden and Finland, and increase the daily quota to 6,000 travellers in total from Nov 29. Vaccinated travellers will be able to take flights between Changi Airport and Kuala Lumpur International Airport without quarantine from Nov 29.
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[10:51 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: All good news. Same rules should apply for all residents of Singapore not just Cit/PR. Not nice having this 1st/2nd class Resident in place. We are all supposed to be in it together!
[10:55 am, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Look into this
[11:05 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Priority is to get back our citizen as well as PR. Don’t think it is for discrimination.
Still on the soft opening phase, we have seen in Europe opening up going to lockdown again. We don’t want that to happen here.
[11:05 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: If it is because of quota, then I understand, but that isn't made clear. If it because of infection then it makes no sense.
[11:07 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: As this pandemic we have realise staying overseas won’t be as good as in Singaporeπ
We still need singaporean overseas to learn from the best hence giving them a easy way to comeback. To facilitate talent training abroad.
[11:08 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, if quota based ok. But why so many stories about Entry Permit not being given and people's EP being cancelled?
[11:08 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Many of people I know turn down overseas assignments due to the risk of not able to come back or any issue back home hard to settle. Specially those with kids
[11:09 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Have you think of those are for jobs? π
Without given EP means their jobs are open to people still in Singapore π
[11:22 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: So it's a process to flush out foreigners? How does that build trust and confidence in Singapore. People won't come here, won't set up business here and won't invest here. Then no jobs for anyone.
[11:23 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Sad but you just see yourself lor.. I have colleagues work here many years can’t come back
[11:24 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: i dont understand what you have written.
[11:24 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: I mean, without the EP many cannot come back. I do have colleagues then go back to visit family and can’t return
[11:25 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes that is what i am saying. that is the wrong way to treat people. they have a 2 year EP, it should be honored
[11:26 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Go out easy coming back hard. My contractor some mandate if you go back without company approval, all benefit cancelled.
Benefit for those that stay on, was given extra due to not able to return to Malaysia. If they return come back the benefit will no long have
[11:27 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Those was given when economy was good. Now don’t need so many workers π
Too many come in also no jobs.
But then again many companies can’t find workers(mainly due to Low pay when supply reduce they can’t find cheaper labour)
[11:28 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: EP isn
[11:28 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: t cheap labour, they are skilled
[11:31 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: The point of the VTL scheme is to allow short-term visits (in and out of Singapore) it's not relevant to jobs.
I think the point is that EPs need to be able to briefly leave the country and have the certainty that they can get back in.
In addition, please seem to forget the VTL is not just for holidays and family visits, it's so that Singapore residents (SG, PR and EP) can do business trips and help regenerate the economy.
[11:31 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: Sorry: PEOPLE seem to forget.
[11:32 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, I agree with this, points well made.
[11:33 am, 15/11/2021] +Angelica: Have not used VTL but have travelled recently to Europe. Concerns are mostly additional cost from VTL flight and PCR tests. As well as getting covid overseas and having to stay at destination for another 14-21 days..
[11:46 am, 15/11/2021] +RH: This slow approach is probably the better way to go, with regards to opening up.
We dun wan the sitn to get out of hand again and hv to go bk to the drawing board.
We also know ther r ppl out ther who, becoz they hv felt cooped up for more than a year, can't wait to go out for a bit of fun / "breath of fresh air", only to come bk infected and become a super spreader.
Hv we alredi forgotten abt the 'super spreader' , so fast? Tsk. Tsk.
π
Worse, pick up a new strain of virus ...
I think this is a "gingerly step" towards re opening ourselves up.
Also, it could be a way to buy ourselves more time to prepare additional healthcare resources in case ther is a sudden surge in cases.
I mean, looking at stats fr other countries on opening up, i…
[11:49 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: This debate is about different rules for citizens/pr and EP holders, not about opening up or not.
[11:50 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: If you look at Singapore's stats, the number of people returning from overseas with Covid infections is almost zero and every single returning person is tested twice so we know that the numbers are good.
And why is that the case, because you have to be vaccinated to travel.
[11:53 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: And let's not forget that arguably the biggest "super-spreader" Singapore has had and could arguably be the root-cause of the increase of cases from 1-2 a day to the level we're at now was caused by people visiting karaoke places .....
[11:54 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: to be fair, it was the fishing port, which then went to the karaoke place
[11:54 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes, this is accurate
[0:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I was not thinking of our recent local cases.
I was referring to the one way back when we did not close our borders in time & the Delta virus caught us all off guard...
[0:17 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
National Level
1. Happy that VTL is negotiated with various Countries and has now open up to many Countries. This will help to revive our air hub, business travel, MICE, tourism, hospitality, retail and F&B business.
2. This will boost our GDP, our business and create jobs for Singaporeans.
Personal Level
1. No plan to travel overseas for leisure or business.
2. Reasons :- too many uncertainties and health risk.
- Once in overseas, don't know what health protocols to observe - eg. need quarantine (though VTL means no need - but don't know - things can change easily), how to know oveseas recognise our vaccination status, and other health protocols to observe not clear. Also will foreigners observe mask wearing, safe distancing etc that pose a risk to us, and if infected need medical care - how to go about doing it, healthcare cost etc.
Too much uncertainties and risk - especially for leisure travel.
3. But not discouraging others from travelling overseas who are more courageous and good risk-taker.
[0:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Since this is a debate abt diff rules for diff ppl, I m just giving my two-cents worth as to the reason for such distinctions...
[0:18 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: +1
[0:25 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Coronavirus: Netherlands eyes partial lockdown, despite nearly 85 per cent vaccinated.
Netherlands reports a record daily number of new Covid-19 cases.
Hospitals under pressure, even with relatively high vaccination rate.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGzw7t2WmgM8WShEqBqi_hIqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMLiWxwU?uo=CAUiANIBAA&hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
[0:25 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
German state health ministers call to extend state of emergency as COVID-19 cases soar.
Germany in state of emergency - where Europe style of endemic living with covid flop badly.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/german-state-health-ministers-call-extend-state-emergency-covid-19-cases-soar-2311636
[0:26 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore hospitalisation number and serious cases seems to have plateau.
Singapore "Middle Path Endemic" living with covid is holding up - despite gradual loosening of restrictions measures.
[0:33 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/tech/tech-news/59m-customers-of-reddoorz-hotel-booking-site-leaked-in-spores-largest-data-breach?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg
[0:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I said this before and I will say it again.
I expect my Govt to PRIORITISE SINGAPOREANS over Non-Singaporeans...just as everyone citizen in their own country expects there own Govts to do,
[0:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: everyone every other
[0:44 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Very black and white statement to make. It has no meaning without context.
[0:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: It is a very straightforward and simple statement. Applies in every context including and not limited to ALL those you mentioned.
[0:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I didn't say marginalise non-Singaporeans by the way.
[0:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I said prioritise Singaporeans. Hope you get the subtle but equally important difference
[0:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Preventing travel through fear of losing your pass seems a harsh. Not honouring a 2 year EP seems harsh. You don't agree?
[0:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: But, just in case you don't get it ... try going to OTHER COUNTRIES (or their embassy, as a Singaporean?) and demand that you be given the same treatment as their citizens. Let us know how that work out for you
[0:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: I don't think every other citizen expect their own Government to do this. Fortunately.
[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: every other citizen in other countries
[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I don't know another country that said only their citizens can travel with right to return.
[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: meaning an Aussie would expect the Australian Govt to prioritise them over Singaporeans for example
[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: AUSTRALIA
[0:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I think residents had the same rights regardless of citizenship
[0:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: But I don't know
[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: at one point, even their own citizens were denied entry unless under very special conditions, and for foreigners, don;t even think about it
[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yeah
[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: obviously
[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: That's why I am telling you otherwise\
[0:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: You make a blanket statement about every citizen in every country in the world.
[0:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Nor do you
[0:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I made a general statement which I am very sure, reflects the majority. Just think back to the issues and arguments at each election. What are the politicians promising? What are the people vocalising?
[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: He who shouts loudest wins?
[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I would suggest you stop showing off your naivete
[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: I don't believe that many Australians would expect the Australian government to prioritise Australians. They would expect the Australian government to treat all Australian residents equally.
And, yes Australia did have a quota for people entering Australia but it applied equally to all Australian residents, irrespective of citizenship.
[0:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Is it necessary for a gov to cancel someone's 2 year EP because they go visit their family abroad?
[0:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Right, thank you.
[0:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I guess there is always one rude obnoxious person on every list.
[0:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: It is not. But is that the reason why it happened? Or is it what you THOUGHT happened?
[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: Not true. They said it Aussie's left they would have to apply under the quote to come back in unless they had a special reason. The quota applied to all residents.
[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: you still guessing at this point?
[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Seems like you are ignoring the messages that discredit your arguments.
[1:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I'm not rude to you. You don't like my pint of view sure, but you attack personally time and time again.
[1:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: These only made the sitn worse.
Clear cases of irresponsible behaviour in adults tt I abhor.
But they didn't start it.
Apologies for wrong choice of words 'super spreader' .
But u know wher I'm coming from...
[1:01 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Who is the "they" you are talking about and is it hearsay or you had direct/reliable information?
I had quite a few Aussie friends who had problems getting back into Australia...and I am talking about short biz trips, but permanently returning back to Australia.
[1:03 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: You Gen-strawberry? Why so easily bruised? I am direct and curt sometimes. Deal with it or ignore.
[1:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Which is the ππ»one tt started it all, way back when...
At the point of entry.
VTL relates to our country's entry and exit points.
Hence, I think this differentiated move by the gov is a 'gentle' step fwd b4 they go further.
Like I said b4, we also dun wan to overwhelm the healthcare system here.
Our healthcare professionals need a break. They hv bn working hard enuff.. Dun u agree?.
[1:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: you disagreed. In order to dis*credit*, you need more than someone else just repeating your same (misguided) statements
[1:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I don't have to deal with it. You don't have a right to talk to people like this.
[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Should just focus on the topic.
And should not engage in endless quarrel.
[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Getting petty!
[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Focus on the issue.
Not on the person.
[1:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yes
[1:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes I do, especially when I feel that it is warranted. It seems to me you never had anyone speak to you in any other way than that which makes you think you are smart/right/good...... its about time ... I guess π€·♂️
[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not focusing on the person. I argued against what he said. Unfortunately, he/she decided to take it personally
[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Frankly I don;t care who made what statement
[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: π€¦♀️π€·♂️π
[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: If I don't agree with it, I say why
[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Its nothing personally ... unless you want it to be
[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is totally personal. I regret getting sucked into it. Just focus on the debate and topic.
[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes it is. Because you wanted to make it a personal issue
[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, let's be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion :)
[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Like I said, I responded to the statement you made
[1:12 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: For everyone's sake, just private message me if you want to be insulting. That way I can block you and dont have to read your insults.
[1:12 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I don't know who "BL" is and I really don;t care. If it were a Minister who made that same statement you did, and I had a chance to, I would let him/her know exactly how I feel about it the same way I did you
[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is a forum, not parliament. Have some courtesy and respect for others who are here to contribute.
[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: You are not making sense. Anyway, like I said, I am not targeting YOU. It is not about YOU.
[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: So true. This person always resorts to personal insults and attacks if anyone has a different view from him. Wastes everyone else's time.
[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Just stop it.
[1:15 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Booster jabs could make ‘big difference’ in beating Covid if rolled out to younger groups, Neil Ferguson says.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/booster-jabs-could-big-difference-103537756.html
[1:15 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Not personal attacks, just retorts against statements that I disagree with. The more idiotic the statement, the more curt my retorts.
[1:16 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
More countries are convinced and supporting booster shot to curb the Delta wave.
[1:17 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/third-vaccine-jabs-boosting-chances-140057818.html
How third vaccine jabs are boosting the chances of a restriction-free Christmas.
[1:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: It is not acceptable to have someone on this forum who says we (sometimes) make idiotic statements, and he has the right to saywhat he likes in return. This is what suppresses free debate.
[1:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is not acceptable.
[1:28 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Locally transmitted cases also plateau.
So :-
1. Transmission cases
2. Hospitalisation number
3. Serious illness cases
4. Death number
All point to Singapore Delta wave stabilising and plateauing.
This is an indication that Singapore "Middle Path Endemic" living with covid is holding up and working well.
While we :-
1. Opening up our restrictions measures step by step in a calibrated manner.
2. Open up our borders through VTL.
But :-
1. Ramping up vaccination to those unvaccinated.
2. Ramping up booster shot.
3. Maintaining masks, social distancing measures.
All these fine balancing - health safety and reopening of economy - via Middle Path Endemic - are working well for us.
Let us work harder on:-
1. Vaccinating the unvaccinated.
2. Ramp up booster shot.
3. Using more potent anti-viral theuraptics medicine to treat hospitalisation cases to reduce development into more serious illness and death.
4. Look into nasal spray vaccines that block infection.
To minimise death rate daily (this is one area I feel very concern about) and to reduce hospitalisation.
[1:31 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I'd like to ask...
Any progress on making ART kits more affordable, less expensive?
... Sori, this is the best place for such flw up... π
[1:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I think the latest move to make the diehards pay their own medical bills if infected is a good one.
One of my still-not-yet-vax frens has finally made the effort to get an appt....
[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: π
[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: π
[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: π
[1:37 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I just got my 3rd booster shot last week.
I feel very good and well protected.
But will still observe safe distancing measures by wearing masks in public and follow safe distancing measures.
[1:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Please lah... some old man even used 4-letter word here also bo taiji ,,, if I get warned/booted out just because I call out naive statements/correct misinformation (not saying you), then I won't want to be part of this forum as well. You can end up with like-minded strawberries, hold hands, pat each other on the backs for making nice sounding, idealistic (unrealistic) statements that have no real world relevance π
[1:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Did you take the same vax as the first 2? As in if you took the Pfizer shots initially, the booster is the Pfizer one as well?
[1:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: It wasn't the case when the virus first appeared on the horizon last year leading these people to believe that they had freedom of choice.
[1:44 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes.
My 1st 2 jabs is Pfizer-BioNTech.
My 3rd jab also Pfizer.
I try to follow Israel 3 jab model - that give very good outcome.
[1:44 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Please be reminded that abuse, bullying and personal attacks on fellow contributors will not be condoned.
[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: What is the likely possibility of a fourth booster shot bearing in mind the expiry time frame of the three earlier shots?
[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Then be CONSISTENT
[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: If you can't, no one will respect that
[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Was wondering when this will come out
[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Don't know.
No information on the need for 4th booster shot yet
[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Thanks
[1:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I see.
Read some article somewhere (ST I think) where a report seemed to suggest that a P-P-M combination resulted in a higher antibody count compared to a P-P-P regime. But also hearing that some people who took the P-P-M dose experienced some discomfort after the M booster π
[1:53 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Some of my relatives took moderna vaccines even though their 2 jabs are Pfizer.
They got 2 very uncomfortable weeks - fever, headache, fatigue.
My 3rd jab is not painful.
At night my arm sore like the 1st 2 jabs.
Yesterday no sore but itchy around that area.
Today all soreness and itchy gone.
No other discomfort like fever, fatigue etc.
[1:54 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Most important, Israel total population got 3 Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine jabs - and now they are out of pandemic.
So I just follow the formula that works.
I not so adventurous to try the untested.
[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: All my three jabs was from Pfizer but the third one caused back ache ontop of an aching arm.
[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: What will be for us!?
[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Thanks for sharing
[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: π
[1:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I do believe in freedom of choice, up to a point.
By 'diehard', I mean those who r eligible but refuse to get jabbed.
This latest rule hits these ppl where it hurts most... Their pockets.
So, in a way, I think it is effective, as a last ditch effort to convince this grp of ppl to go for vax.
How much effective, I dun hv the stats.
Perhaps Gov can gv us an indication in some public announcement or sth like tt?
[1:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I think Singapore doing well base on all our indicators.
If everything goes well, we may join Israel soon - out of pandemic into endemic.
[1:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Great
[1:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: So, can't blame the government for being reasonable up to a point.
[1:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Yup!
[1:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, step by step we are edging closer. Just need the kids to be vaxxed
[2:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +65 9617 1577: Same here
[2:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Even now, ther is a "choice".
1. Go get vax
2. Or get medical professional to give exemption letter
3. Or pay for the medical bills if one is still Un-Vax & gets infected.
[2:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: A related question if I may ask- can any household member deny entry into their home for a relative or others who is not vaccinated?
[2:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: π€ gosh!
That's a tough one!
[2:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Asked this in a Telegram support group but got no response
[2:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: A home is a private property. I think you can deny entry to anyone (except against official/authorities with the appropriate permit/authorisations) for any, or no reason at all.
[2:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: 1st qn...
How much do you "trust" this unvax person?
[2:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Will it help if the law is clear on this?
[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Ya. It is a personal choice, really.
Depends on whether u wan this relative in your life or not, after u refuse entry.
Lol.
[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: True
[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I haven't checked, but I am quite sure the law is unambiguous on the rights of a homeowner.
[2:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: So, a grey area can have unwanted consequences?
[2:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: π
[2:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: As far as the law is concerned, I think its pretty straightforward. The issue is always with relations/relationships π
[2:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Unfortunately so
[2:13 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes kids need to be vaccinated before we come come out of pandemic into endemic.
This is now the biggest missing link.
[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://stayprepared.sg/staywell/
[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Registration for free mouth gargle starts today
[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
This is one way to help to block infection.
20% effective.
[2:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: This seems like a strange question... (no issues with asking it but I wonder what's the premise behind this question).
[3:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Those who are vaccinated should not fear those who are unvaccinated. In fact, it should be the other way around... those who are unvaccinated should fear contact with anyone else as COVID becomes endemic.
[3:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +Simon: ππ
[3:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Vax is not immunity. Can still catch Covid and most likely to catch from an Unvaxed person.
[3:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Can you share the study which shows 20% effectiveness in a real world setting?
[3:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Not true. You can catch covid from anyone. In fact, most likely to be from vax person because (1) there are more vax persons than unvax person (2) vax persons are allowed more freedom hence more likely to catch the virus (3) vax persons are more likely to be asymptomatic and hence more likely to spread virus.
[3:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: lol i see your logic, but clearly 1 Unvax person with Covid is more likely to spread a stronger measure of Covid than a 1 vax person with Covid.
[3:15 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: yep - I guess you are thinking from a viral shedding perspective. However, that's not reality as there's no way we are exposed in a 1:1 controlled manner to vax vs. unvax. So conceptually, the correct thinking is that if you are vaxed, you are very safe - the unvaxed should be more worried about meeting you than the other way around.
[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: this is a study based on dorm workers in 2020 that is based on the old variant of the virus.
[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes
[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: there is no evidence that the same strategy would yield any efficacy for the delta variant
[3:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: No harm for those who don't mind to use mouth wash, but don't expect it to have any real protective effect as it may not work the same way for (1) delta variant (2) in non-dormitory settings.
[3:18 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Temasek may have wasted taxpayers money on this one. Good PR maybe, but the effectiveness is questionable.
[3:18 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/temasek-foundation-to-offer-free-mouth-gargle-for-all-singapore-households
Temasek Foundation to offer free mouth gargle for all Singapore households
[3:19 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fdmed.2021.648547/full
[3:19 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: For robust evidence, I suggest you look for systematic reviews - not newspaper articles.
[3:20 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: I'm not saying mouth gargle is harmful, but don't assume it has any effect because there might not be any.
[3:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: What a waste of money
Bad odour or what??
Tamasek Foundation should doing more like sending us the ART KIT & Mask in the midst of fight on Covid 19
Register for Gargle just a waste of time & money as well
It's means little to the war with Covid
-1 Tamasek this time aroundππ»ππ»
[4:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: This statement partially incorrect. Don't take this the wrong way...and am definitely not targeting you....but it is important to clarify because this is one of the arguments that the misguided anti-vaxxers use to challenge everyone else....
Since almost 90% of the community is vaxxed, the likelihood of encountering someone who is vaxxed is 10x higher than someone who is unvaxxed (all other factors constant). If you factor in more stringent restrictions for unvaxxed, then the probability is even more skewed. So, unless an unvaxxed person is (more than) 10x more infectious than a vaxxed person, and movement restrictions are uniform, it is more likely that we will be catching CV19 from a vaccinated persons.
The vax reduces infection rates by (40-50% if I recall correctly), but what is does very well, is reduce the effects of the CV19. The B-cell immunity from the vax kicks in earlier to defend against the virus, while buying us time for B-cell immunity (which is lifelong and more specific and effective) to kick in and eliminate the virus.
It is also true that the risk is actually more bias against the unvaxxed, Which is consistent with the message that the decision to relax measures only for vaxxed persons, is really to protect the unvaxxed who are more vulnerable, rather than to penalise them.
[4:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: Temasek Foundation should address the urgency needs to downing the price of ART KIT from now onwards to keep Government acknowledge ART PRICE was totally expensive instead calling us to register for Gargle mouth wash
It's was embarrassed to heard that ,
As Singaporean I wish the Government to be Caring & effectively one
Not just telling us , we are doing well in the middle path of road for Covid Recovery
What we see now ,The Danish health authority reveal Singapore Covid protocol
Another hiccup for recovery
[4:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: time for B-cell T-cell
[4:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: 1 is preventive, the other is a diagnostic tool. Both are important
[4:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: Maybe next time ,
Temasek Foundation can provide us Cough Mixture & Paracetamol as well Medicated Oilment last but not least painkillers plaster & hand-plaster as well
Why not First-Aid Box for all unit Families
More meaningful
Sending to us as soon as possibleππ
[4:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Yes, giving us more ART kits wud be better.
[4:42 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: Long hours of mask wearing will caused bad breath - maybe that is why
[4:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: I η·εζ± may have bad breath , which I not realiseπ π
Maybe Ladies needs more then guy
ππ
[4:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +Caleb: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-self-testing-outside-of-work-medical-reasons-not-the-norm-say-singaporeans
When asked about the difference in behaviour, experts said that one reason Singaporeans do not regularly self-test could be that ART kits here are "affordable but not cheap".
[4:52 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: $10 ART KIT = 1 Meal For High -Income ,2 Meals For Medium-Income 3 Or 4 Meals For Lower-Income
That's a problem
Government needs to address this issue asap
[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Appropriate subsidy must come into play
[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree. ART should be max $1 per kit.
[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: Totally agree
[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: they should cut down on plastic and sell cheap
[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Hear! Hear!
Gov, Pls take note!
[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If not how to do regular testing if the kit price is so high? Even high income also will find it tedious. $10 × 4 per family for 1 day - gone
[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $40 gone for 1 day testing
[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: It is ridiculously exp.
[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: and u must do it multiple times a week
[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: π±agree!
It's ridiculously high price to pay,
Just to do what's right...
[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Not every family can afford.
[4:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Only millionaires can afford to do regular testing with $10 per kit
[4:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Keeping everyone safe now is as important as having the Un-Vax to get vaccinated.
Do not Neglect the general popn as a whole. π
[4:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If ART needs to regular test say once a week for all family members of 4 $40 per week, 1 month is $160. And if want to ramp up to test every 3 days, that will be $40 × (30 days / 3 days) = $40 × 10 times per month = $400 per month.
[4:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $160 is one month's worth of electricity and water bill
[4:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $400 is fees sending a child to childcare
[4:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: How many meals must a family of 4 sacrifice just to test ART?
[4:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: In current times, tt is a lot of $$ to 'throw away' .
I can make my $10 last longer if I spend it on my daily meals and take my time to eat it... Not throw away after a 20-minute test!
[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $160 can buy 3 tins of milk powder. $400 can buy 2 cartons of diapers + 6 tins of milk powder.
[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Calculate like this can see how exp is ART - test and throw.
[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: And my body is satisfied.. As it gets filled w daily sustenance.
We can't eat an ART kit!
[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: π
[5:01 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If $1 per kit, at least people more willing to test. $50 per month for family of 4 to test every 3 days.
[5:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Or less than $20 for a family of 4 to test every week
[5:42 pm, 15/11/2021] +Smiley face: Pfizer Covid-19 shot generated the most antibodies in a comparative study
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/pfizer-covid-19-shot-generated-the-most-antibodies-in-a-comparative-study
[6:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We’d love to hear more from you!
As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.
Megan π
[6:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: I guess to sum up..
Key message today is to Temasek/Govt, please consider more subsidies for ART kits, don't waste money on mouthwash with questionable effectiveness. π
[6:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yes
[7:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: ππΌ New ART kits for Covid-19 to cost 'well below' $10: Ong Ye Kung
https://str.sg/3GDS
ππΌ New supply agreement inked with Pfizer for its Covid-19 vaccines for children
https://str.sg/3GDi
ππΌ Groups of up to 5 from same household to dine in at hawker centres and coffee shops from end-Nov
https://str.sg/3GDU
ππΌ 72% reduction in Covid-19 infection risk for Moderna booster shot after Pfizer jabs, 62% after third Pfizer shot
https://str.sg/3GDw
ππΌ Up to 21,000 migrant workers per week allowed to visit public places from Dec 3
https://str.sg/3GD3
ππΌ S'pore to start VTLs with Indonesia and India from Nov 29, and with Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia from Dec 6
https://str.sg/3GDJ
[7:11 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Good that end Nov - coffee shops and hawker centre allow 5 dine in for same household.
But how does the coffeeshops and hawker centre verify 5 are from same household.
[7:14 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Also noted that the government has ink deal with Pfizer for children vaccines.
And also beginning to trial vaccination for children.
Look like large scale rollout will be done early next year.
[7:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I agree π
[7:23 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Good question!?π€·♂️
[7:32 pm, 15/11/2021] +Smiley face: Hopes for VTL-like arrangement for land travel to Malaysia 'in a few weeks'
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/hopes-for-vtl-like-arrangement-for-causeway-travel-to-malaysia-in-a-few-weeks
[7:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: ππΌ Singapore's Covid-19 cases in ICU have dropped slightly but deaths yet to subside
https://str.sg/3GDm
ππΌ S'pore cannot avoid making constant adjustments to Covid-19 measures: Lawrence Wong
https://str.sg/3GDW
ππΌ Hopes for VTL-like arrangement for land travel to Malaysia 'in a few weeks'
https://str.sg/3GDM
[7:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +Dan: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spore-makes-progress-in-war-on-diabetes-but-obesity-insufficient-physical-activity
I will like to talk on this matter. Personally, since covid in early 2020, my lifestyle has taken a drastic change. I used to play soccer with my friends. And only until recently, my friends and I had to stop soccer. Recently, with the recent changes to sports activities, we can start playing soccer in official fields (stadiums etc.) Instead of your usual kampong open field. Of cos to kickstart the activity will require some form of cajoling and coaxing, especially when some of the friends had hibernate at home for too long. (Which i highly suspect contributing to the increase numbers of obese people)
Since CB, there were certain changes to my family, my daughter has to take her ballet lessons at home via zoom, i tried to do exercises (pilates, zumba, aerobics and skipping) with my children at home. Unfortunately that is also the beginning of my icy relationship with my neighbour downstairs. He tried to talk to me about the noise, and I try to keep it down, unfortunately he needs to WFH, my family need to exercise, therefore the conflict arises. So far govt has been rather silent abt these noise complaints that I saw posted on Complaint Singapore . I think its high time the leader speaks. Most of us live in apartments, I hope that Minister address to this issue soon. Today, I saw a piece of sad news that a father of a 3yr old kid was arrested for hitting his neighbour over noise. And that is just tip of an iceberg.
[7:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Thanks for sharing. This is good news.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/new-supply-agreement-inked-with-pfizer-for-its-covid-19-vaccines-for-children
[7:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Agree. I play basketball and the enforcement measures basically killed the motivation among me and my friends from sports that is keeping us active in our middle age.
[7:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes, take the step to reduce to below $5 per test kit first, then reduce even more.
=====
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