REACH 297 - What are your views on changes to border measures to safeguard Singapore from the Omicron variant? What precautions are you taking amid the emergence of this latest variant? (SK)

29 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:48 am, 29/11/2021] +REACHDear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from * 10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

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2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

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4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

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Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 29/11/2021] +REACH📢 Topic 📢 

Singapore is watching the new coronavirus variant Omicron closely and may be forced to roll back the easing up of safety measures as it moves forward to tackle the disease, said PM Lee on 28 Nov (Sun). "We are tracking this very closely. We are not sure yet, but we may well be forced to take a few steps back again, before we can take more steps forward," he said, adding that he is nevertheless confident the country will be able to live with the virus, and held up how Singaporeans have made a lot of progress in dealing with the disease over the past two years. 

💬 What are your views on changes to border measures to safeguard Singapore from the Omicron variant? What precautions are you taking amid the emergence of this latest variant? 

To reduce the risk of importing the variant to Singapore, border measures will be reviewed on several fronts. The launch of vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs) with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will be deferred until further notice due to their proximity to affected African countries, said the Ministry of Health (MOH). The VTLs to the three Middle Eastern countries were slated to begin on Dec 6. 

Further, all travellers with recent travel history to Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe are no longer allowed to enter into or transit through Singapore. Returning Singapore citizens and permanent residents will have to serve a 10-day stay-home notice (SHN) at dedicated facilities. The Omicron variant was first identified in South Africa and appears to have been responsible for a sudden surge of Covid-19 cases there. Singapore has not yet detected any cases of the variant to date, said MOH. 

From 29 Nov (Mon), those travelling from Malaysia to Singapore via the land VTL will also be required to take an antigen rapid test (ART) upon arrival here, said the Ministry of Trade and Industry.

👉🏼 https://str.sg/3N9J 

👉🏼 https://str.sg/3NCA 

👉🏼 https://str.sg/3NRJ 

👉🏼 https://str.sg/3N9U 

👉🏼 https://str.sg/3NR4

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[10:13 am, 29/11/2021] +linyuxiang: its very unfortunate these variants are out and about when travel is resuming... the best we can do right now is to just stick to following the measures as best as possible but at the rate we are going, vtls are set to be abolished soon

[10:13 am, 29/11/2021] +clarisse lim: Agreed

[10:15 am, 29/11/2021] +Caleb: Maybe get all to self test when they arrived on SG, like on their 5th and 7th day?

[10:15 am, 29/11/2021] +Caleb: Or on the 7th day, go Quick test center for ART

[10:26 am, 29/11/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/eDkC21Dm0Hk

[11:14 am, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. This Omicron strain inherits all the characteristics and far more potent than Delta strain.

2. Barely few weeks, Delta infected 53 countries. And the moment Delta hit Singapore shore, all hell break loose, causing mass infection and trigger many measures up to now - where we barely has managed to control it.

3. Certainly, it warrant us to be more careful about this Omicron strain - and our pre-emptive move to close the borders to some countries where Omicron is spreading is appropriate.

4. Medical labs all over the world are scrambling to determine how transmissible, whether or current vaccinations can curb it, will it develop into more serious illness etc - and this will need at least 2 weeks or more to find out.

5. Hence we err on the caution side is a right move. In fact globally, all countries are taking similar move - until more data from this strain emerge - then we can take more measure approach to tackle this strain.

[11:36 am, 29/11/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, variants should be expected, and Sg shouldn’t get into a panic - and to raise uncertainties of additional rounds of social and business restrictions - everytime a variant  is announced. Addressing this social uncertainty of on-off restrictions is important for daily lives. New “a few steps back” restrictions should only be considered after certain key metrics are breached. These key metrics should be transparent so that Sg society can better manage our own precautions and expectations. This is regardless of border measures, which are welcomed.

[11:41 am, 29/11/2021] +Laurent: Don't fear Omicron fear the manipulative governments

[11:42 am, 29/11/2021] +Boon: Restrictions impose societal costs. Hence, any new restrictions should be based on rational, transparent and consistent basis. Objective “heads up” guidance to Sg society and local businesses is very important factor for us to live with Covid in this “new normal”, and one that we are dependent on the govt. Thank you to our PM and agencies for already giving this heads up.

[11:43 am, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: I fear fools who mistake the man-in-the-mirror for a genius, the most

[11:44 am, 29/11/2021] +Laurent: More people died from car accidents than Covid in Singapore

Did we stop driving?

[11:47 am, 29/11/2021] +RH: Very happy to hear the Gov taking immediate measures to keep our country safe...  Even gg beyond wat we hv read (ie.  deferring VTL for transitting countries) ...

Tq for the foresight  by our leaders. 👍🏻👍🏻

[11:47 am, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: Compare apples with apples, Genius. If you want to compare car accidents with Covid infections, then you need to normalise the distance traveled and interactions on the roads between cars/vehicles against that of a person interacting with others. How much time, distance traveled and interactions resulting in an accident versus and infection.

[11:48 am, 29/11/2021] +RH: Now,  pls make ART test kits cheaper....  

😃

[11:49 am, 29/11/2021] +RH: We shd also still continue to prepare more beds in readiness for unexpected outbreak.

[11:50 am, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: Besides, there are many restrictions associated with operating a vehicle. And yet, there are still accidents. Can you imagine a free for all when it comes to managing a pandemic?

[11:50 am, 29/11/2021] +RH: Now is the time to ramp up our readiness to deal with any sudden upsurge  ...

Not the time to relax  ...

We hv to be even more vigilant now than b4, if we r to continue "living with the virus".

[11:59 am, 29/11/2021] +JC: There's no data yet to suggest that Omnicron variant is more severe than Delta. It is potentially more transmissible and could be less responsive to current vaccines. Until there's more data, some caution is warranted but don't need to be too fearful.

[0:01 pm, 29/11/2021] +JC: My hope is that it is a much more transmissible but mild version of covid. Govt is doing e right things for now to slow e spread by managing external borders. Local relaxation shd remain in place unless there's evidence of local transmission.

[0:01 pm, 29/11/2021] +JC: Give it a few more weeks and we'll know more.

[0:01 pm, 29/11/2021] +JC: Based on how things develops in Africa and Europe.

[0:06 pm, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: Initial data shows that the mutation in Omnicron makes it more infectious and able to evade the vaccine. Even if it is not more virulent/deadly than Delta, if the first 2 factors are true, we will see more patients requiring intensive care and/or deaths.

3 most important factors:

1. Transmissibility

2. Virulence

3. Vaccine/antibody protection

Increased transmissibility alone, can result in more deaths than increased virulence - its simple Maths, which is usually misjudged.

[0:08 pm, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: Preparing the number hospital/ICU beds is relatively easy ... increasing the number of medically trained workers is much more challenging

[0:14 pm, 29/11/2021] +RH: Agree.

[0:25 pm, 29/11/2021] +JC: All true. Key unknown is the virulence factor and if it's a much milder disease, transmissibility and vaccine evasion won't matter as much. Early signs from SA seems to suggest that it is milder but will need more data to know for sure.

[0:36 pm, 29/11/2021] +Jospeh: I would take what SA is saying about the virulence of a mutation originating from their region, with a large pinch of salt. 

Extract from: https://www.timesofisrael.com/south-african-doctor-who-flagged-omicron-claims-variant-not-causing-serious-illness/

Angelique Coetzee, part of the team that discovered the new COVID-19 strain, says even unvaccinated patients treated by her have had mild symptoms.

In all likelihood, these patients had previously caught and recovered from the Alpha and Delta variants ie. they would have antibodies protecting them against the earlier variants ... 

I suspect the outcome/symptoms for someone who is unvaccinated and had not previously encountered the virus ie. totally unprotected, would be very different

[0:44 pm, 29/11/2021] +JC: Agree there's need for further verification from multiple sources to know for sure. I'm more hopeful as mutations typically trend towards more transmissible but less virulent variants. Until we are certain, short period of border control is probably justifiable.

[1:01 pm, 29/11/2021] +Anthony: From China to India & now South Africa ,These kind of Virus Variant can happens anywhere in our planet .

But one thing for sure if G/MOH must acknowledge of human casualties that we learnt Covid 19 especially Delta Variant.

Government can do now give every household like ARTKIT every month like 10 to 20 KIt

Which Governments & MOH can deliver not the hardest decision to be make

Secondly, make sure the price of ART KIT be more affordable before Omicron hit our Shore

Social gathering must reduce to 2pax , if Omicron arrive here once that happens

Until our Government & MOH able to cope the uncertainties.

Before reopen

[1:10 pm, 29/11/2021] +Anthony: https://youtu.be/BSTXxVfCbx0

[1:12 pm, 29/11/2021] +Anthony: 4× infectious then Delta Variant🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️

[1:22 pm, 29/11/2021] +YT: Not "if", but "when". That is, "when omicron arrives in Singapore". For all we know, it's already here but not detected yet.

[1:23 pm, 29/11/2021] +Anthony: Sooner or later ,as lesson told us 2 years ago

[1:25 pm, 29/11/2021] +Anthony: When Wuhan announce the world January 23 2020 within 2 weeks later  SG had the first case

[2:17 pm, 29/11/2021] +REACHSingapore, Malaysia aim to expand land VTL to general travellers from mid-Dec; to start talks on sea VTL

Singapore and Malaysia are aiming to expand the land Vaccinated Travel Lane (VTL) scheme, which began on Monday (Nov 29), to include general travellers from mid-December, said Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.

More https://str.sg/3Nvp

[2:49 pm, 29/11/2021] +Caleb: I think those coming back from SF countries need to be on dedicated stay home facilities for 14 days. Cannot at their own homes.

[4:41 pm, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Early data indicate that Omicron can evade the anti-bodies that all current vaccines are developed to prevent covid infection due to numerous mutations of spike protein - which the anti-bodies fail to recognise.

2. There are some mutations to the T-cell region in which current vaccines are design to attack if cells are infected - due to possible failure to recognise the infected cell.

3. So Omicron through early data reveal it is not a benign one as it sounds - as most infected people are young people - not the vulnerable groups.

[5:16 pm, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Our current vaccines have 2 lines of defence:-

a. Anti-bodies that enwrap the covid through attachment to their spike protein.

b. T-cell that attack the infected cell if it evade the anti-bodies.

2. Delta and other strains  may be able to bypass anti-bodies but will be attack by T-cell and clear the bodies of Covid.

3. But Omicron seems to be able to bypass the 2 line of defence which the vaccines erected.

[6:19 pm, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/covid-19-variant-omicron-poses-very-high-global-risk-countries-must-prepare-who 

Covid-19 variant Omicron poses 'very high' global risk, countries must prepare: WHO.

Increasing cases, regardless of a change in severity, may pose overwhelming demands on healthcare systems and may lead to increased morbidity and mortality. The impact on vulnerable populations would be substantial, particularly in countries with low vaccination coverage,” it added.

[6:20 pm, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Overall, there are considerable uncertainties in the magnitude of immune escape potential of Omicron.” More data was expected in coming weeks.

“Covid-19 cases and infections are expected in vaccinated persons, albeit in a small and predictable proportion”, it added.

[6:23 pm, 29/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. WHO initial assessment - Omicron pose a very high global

risk - particularly to the vulnerable groups and the unvaccinated group.

2. Vaccination with 2 jabs will still see breakthrough. But vaccination will ward off serious illness and death.

3. Booster is still touted as a better protection against Omicron as it currently stands.

[6:45 pm, 29/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:59 pm, 29/11/2021] +Smiley face: 29 November, 2021 

To: Distinguished MTF and All Honorable Members 

"Singapore cannot claim to have better doctors and scientists or better healthcare than the United States or Europe." 

- - PM Lee

How:

Is the ART sensitive to capture this O?

How about PCR? 

Relook all protocols - medical, social, economics and ports of entry (air/sea/land)? 

Simply there is no quick way out of this latest covid situation, one needs to be cautiously optimistic going into the next 3 to 4 months. 

Going Forward:

In order to further the understanding of covid, causation and future scenarios, there is a need to dive deeper into cell dynamics - a cell, inside a cell, deeper and its relativity & activity. 

Creating a multi-discipline team of TOP WORLD CLASS medical and science experts to include the following disciplines with two experts from each of these 7.

Microbiology

Epidemiology

Immunology

Virology

Quantum biology

Evolutionary biology

Mathematician 

News:

Trust is the 'decisive difference' in S'pore's response to Covid-19: PM Lee 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/trust-is-the-decisive-difference-in-spores-response-to-covid-19-says-pm-lee-at-pap

https://youtu.be/eDkC21Dm0Hkhttps

//m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of-world/south-african-medical-association-says-omicron-variant-causes-mild-disease/articleshow/87949404.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

[7:00 pm, 29/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====

REACH 296 - What are your views on current restrictions as Singapore resumes its transition to COVID-19 resilience, in particular the expansion of the vaccination-differentiated measures?

If you are unvaccinated (medically eligible), what are your reasons for not taking the vaccination? How can we encourage the unvaccinated to be vaccinated? (SK)

26 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:51 am, 26/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 26/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Several measures announced at the Multi-ministry Taskforce (MTF) Press Conference (20 Nov) kicked in this week, as Singapore resumes its transition to COVID-19 resilience in a careful and calibrated manner. Groups of up to 5 fully vaccinated people are now allowed to dine out together at food and beverage (F&B) establishments, even if they are not from the same household. Such groups of up to 5 persons are also be allowed to dine-in at hawker centres and coffee shops where full Vaccination-Differentiated Safe Management Measures (VDS) checks have been implemented.

To protect unvaccinated individuals from getting infected and becoming severely ill, the MTF also announced the expansion of VDS to more settings and activities, including in all NLB Libraries and selected activities in community clubs/centres under People’s Association from 1 Dec. From 1 January 2022, unvaccinated individuals will also not be able to show a negative Pre-Event Test result to enter a vaccinated-differentiated setting, in lieu of being fully vaccinated. 

💬 What are your views on current restrictions as Singapore resumes its transition to COVID-19 resilience, in particular the expansion of the vaccination-differentiated measures?

If you are unvaccinated (medically eligible), what are your reasons for not taking the vaccination? How can we encourage the unvaccinated to be vaccinated?

A concession will be extended to those who are medically ineligible for vaccination from Dec 1, so that they are able to access premises or participate in activities where vaccination-differentiated measures are imposed.

"While we have extended a concession to those who are medically ineligible to be able to dine in, enter malls and participate in activities where VDS is required, they remain unvaccinated and their risk of becoming infected with Covid-19 and/or becoming severely ill remains real and very high," MOH stressed.

"We strongly encourage these individuals to minimise such activities and to use this concession judiciously."

👉🏼 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/dining-in-and-social-gathering-capacity-increased-to-5-what-you-need-to-know-about-covid

👉🏼 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/entry-to-libraries-participation-in-some-community-centre-activities-restricted-to

👉🏼 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/those-medically-ineligible-for-covid-19-vaccines-to-get-concessions-from-dec-1-if-they

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[10:21 am, 26/11/2021] +WJ: some of them are misinformed and can't differenciate fake news. We need someone to talk to them in Chinese, how to identify fake new.

[10:24 am, 26/11/2021] +WJ: Those unvaccinated are usually misinformed.

[10:25 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: MOH should emphasize that the VDMs r not meant to be punitive but rather required to protect unvax individuals from severe disease and health system from overload. It should highlight that widespread asymptomatic infection is going to b expected and the norm in the coming months, so that unvax can understand the threat to their well being.

[10:26 am, 26/11/2021] +Caleb: Good that is still default WFH. 

Hope Gov can quickly approve novavax under the National Vax program and can take it as booster.

[10:27 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: I would also urge MOH to accelerate approval of the oral antivirals so that unvax may have another option outside of vaccines.

[10:30 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: WFH should not be the default any further. This has significant negative impact on various aspects of the economy. With such high vax rates and the possibility of allowing only vax workers to return to the office, WFH as default should stop, there's no other reason to do so.

[10:33 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: WFH affect the economy? any proof?

[10:36 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: if it really so bad why big companies like facebook is allowing their staff to wfh permanently?Remote work has been shown to increase worker productivity

[10:37 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: I fully support working from home. It has more positive impact than negative.

[10:38 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: or Hybrid but not going back fully.

[10:38 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: For one good reason, Covid still spread. Vax or Unvax.

[10:39 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: https://www.businessinsider.com/benefits-remote-work-changing-us-economy-for-the-better-upwork-2021-3

[10:41 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Hybrid is fine but to make WFH default is not the same as allowing hybrid work arrangements. Whether to go hybrid should b a decision made by companies, not govt.

[10:41 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: And not you too.

[10:41 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Obviously not me.

[10:41 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Let e companies decide

[10:42 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: That's all I'm saying

[10:43 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: and a lot of decision can be made by the govt... companies that operate in different countries has to work around the law and regulation of the country. and for the country to have default WFH is for the good of its people.

[10:43 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Btw your the article you've shared isn't proof... U can Google more to find other views and hopefully u are smart enough to figure out which are the credible sources.

[10:46 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: A simple reality. In Singapore, our wages r much higher than many other countries. With digital enabled work becoming the norm, I guarantee u that MNCs will off shore more work to cheaper labor to other countries. If u prefer to WFH to slack, b ready that ur job won't b safe for too long.

[10:46 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Maybe u work for govt then ur job is safe. For those of us in e private sector, this is reality.

[10:46 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: maybe you slack while you WFH but many is really working.. and who says people working in office doesn't slack?

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: There is a lot of factor when they decide to invest or not. Even if they are deciding a local office, they can choose another country if they need to too.

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: When u make something default, u force everyone to do e same thing when every companies needs and workforce is different.

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: Govt will know what to do

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Lift that restriction and let companies decide.

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: No they don't

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Govt can't make every decision

[10:48 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: then you be the govt

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: They shouldn't

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: U r silly

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Don't love WFH too much

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: U might lose ur job

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: ya you are very smart

[10:49 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Yep def more than u

[10:50 am, 26/11/2021] +Vana: +1

[10:51 am, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: hope you don't lose your job too. We have to adapt to change... if we cannot adapt we will lose out and fall behind. move forward and be the change

[10:51 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: 🤷‍♂️

[10:52 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Adapting means delivering value to what ur employers want. Not wishing ur govt force ur employers to let u WFH.

[10:52 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: 🤦‍♂️

[10:52 am, 26/11/2021] +Ken Loh: When WFH becomes possible we start competing overseas for position… double edge sword so need to be prepared

[10:53 am, 26/11/2021] +Ken Loh: When your pay is it worth it becomes more easily compared… so must be high value providing, so company consider keeping you.. than rather outsource it to cheaper counterparts

[10:54 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Employers will make the financially beneficial decision for them. If they believe WFH default is impacting productivity and collaboration, and they see many other countries not impose WFH as default... Then we give them one more reason to offshore.

[10:57 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: This is on top of e lost businesses to retailers and FnB as offices empty out.

[11:08 am, 26/11/2021] +JC: Finally, WFH as default is a public health policy by the govt to control covid when vax rates r not high enough and hence willing to trade off the negative economic effect for public health well being. We r now one of the most vax nation in the world. Govt must b careful not to over extend this policy. I work in a major MNC and I know senior leaders r looking closely at these govt measures as they decide on how they deploy their manpower globally. Singapore govt has the benefit of doubt due to its long track record of good governance but we cannot b too relaxed and employers appetite for these measures won't last forever.

[11:20 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/german-covid-19-deaths-pass-100000-with-infections-still-spiking

Germany's Covid-19 deaths pass 100,000 with infections still spiking.

Hospitals are overwhelmed and force to look at other EU countries to accommodate the patients.

Europe failed free for all endemic living with covid policy - trigger serious consequences.

It inflict more damages to the economy and further delay its recovery.

Many EU countries face similar predicament.

[11:20 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore could avoid a Europe-style Covid resurgence, Ong says.

With our unique "Middle Path Endemic".

https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/singapore-could-avoid-a-europe-style-covid-resurgence-ong-says-022311239.html

[11:22 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/total-covid-19-deaths-europe-could-exceed-22-million-march-who-2333871

Total COVID-19 deaths in Europe could exceed 2.2 million by March: WHO.

Europe free for all endemic living with covid is a total failure.

[11:22 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/czechs-declare-state-emergency-impose-170907507.html

Czechs declare state of emergency, impose new virus measures.

[11:22 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CBMia2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIxL25vdi8yNS9ldS1tb3Zlcy10by1wbGFjZS1jb3ZpZC1ib29zdGVyLWphYnMtYXQtaGVhcnQtb2YtdHJhdmVsLXJ1bGVz0gFraHR0cHM6Ly9hbXAudGhlZ3VhcmRpYW4uY29tL3dvcmxkLzIwMjEvbm92LzI1L2V1LW1vdmVzLXRvLXBsYWNlLWNvdmlkLWJvb3N0ZXItamFicy1hdC1oZWFydC1vZi10cmF2ZWwtcnVsZXM?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

EU moves to place Covid booster jabs at heart of travel rules.

Booster shot is now the de-facto weapon to fight the Delta wave.

[11:22 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes. Look like now EU and USA are forcing people to take booster.

I think Israel and Singapore have proven booster shot do curb the Delta wave.

 

[11:28 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: UK bans travel from south africa over new variant that is worse than Delta. Are we doing the same?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59424269.amp

[11:29 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And HK also has this new variant

[11:30 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Singapore unique "Middle Path Endemic living with the covid" is seeing success in curbing the current new Delta wave.

2. Whereas Europe free for all endemic living with the covid is a total failure.

[11:30 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: This new variant has different spike and hence can vaccines may not be effective.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59418127

[11:32 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Hope the new variant does not enter sg

[11:32 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

3. As we move forward, we have to adopt a step by step calibrated opening - by watching important indicators like weekly infection ratio, infection number, hospitals number, serious illness number, ICU number and death rate.

4. Then we should open step by step as cater for in our unique Middle Path Endemic.

[11:33 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Monitor closely and do calibrated opening.

Middle path endemic allow opening and closing to slide up and down.

[11:36 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also vaccination and Booster can prevent development of serious illness from covid even with new mutated strains.

But though may not be totally effective in using anti-bodies to enwrap and stop new mutated strains from transmission.

Hence, mask, social distancing and calibrated opening need to be in place.

[11:37 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Hope the gov takes measures now for the new variant. If not if it creeps through with our dense population, the infection rate may surge exponentially

[11:37 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Not this new mutated strain which is why UK took steps to ban travel already

[11:37 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Agree.

I think government will be watching the new strain carefully and adjust the measures up and down.

[11:38 am, 26/11/2021] +REACH: 10 more coffee shops and 1 hawker centre allow 5 vaccinated people to eat together

Another hawker centre and 10 more coffee shops have opened to groups of up to five vaccinated people to dine in.

Another 20 hawker centres are slated to do so by next Monday (Nov 29), with entry and vaccination checks in place.

More: https://str.sg/3NaY

[11:38 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And sg cannot afford to be guinea pig bed to test for the death rate of this new highly mutated strain.

[11:39 am, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: So best is to curb the travel borders first.

[11:42 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Ramp up vaccination among the unvaccinated to cover the total population.

Move the percentage of booster from 24% currently to at least 50% and above.

Look at new vaccines that target core covid gene that cannot be mutated eg. T-cell vaccines.

Look at nasal spray vaccines that block all strain covid transmission.

Lastly cover the children vaccination.

[11:52 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Mutated strains is an ever evolving process for covid or other virus - it never stop.

The only defence is:-

1. Vaccination

2. Booster

3. Mask

4. Social distancing measures

Then endemic like mild flu is possible.

We have not reached this stage yet.

Hence calibrated Middle Path Endemic to adjust up and down the opening of measures will be necessary.

Once the total population are fully vaccinated + booster, with additional precaution like mask and some social distancing measures - we can still live normally without the fear of new mutated strains.

[11:55 am, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

New mutated strains will only affect the unvaccinated or the vaccinated where immunity has wane.

Hence full vaccination + booster will effectively plug this gap.

And mutated strains no longer pose a major threat - and the population can live with the mild flu like symptoms.

[1:26 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. As scientific evidence stand as of now :-

a. Full vaccination is the main tool to curb covid

b. Booster (is touted as the 3-jab full vaccination like Hep B) - when the immunity wane after 6 months.

2. Hence vaccination should be our main focus to get the total population vaccinated.

3. Empirical evidence has shown that unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and vaccinated where immunity has wane - made up most if not all the serious illness and death.

4. Hence, full vaccination and booster - should be our main tool to curb covid - Delta or new strains.

5. Hence vaccination-differentiated measures and the expanded measures is strongly supported to get more unvaccinated or immuno-compromised vaccinated to get their vaccination and booster.

6. Israel experience and Singapore experience shows that the 3 booster shot - effectively control the rage of the Delta wave and we are seeing improvement in the weekly infection ratio, infection number, hospitalisation number, serious cases and death.

7. Hence we should continue to encourage the total population to get themselves vaccinated and to get their booster upon reaching 6 months for those who are eligible.

8. Focus in getting the unvaccinated children to get their vaccination once children trial is over.

9. This is the only way for Singapore to emerge from the covid - Delta or future strains - and transit into a "Middle Path Endemic" living with the covid - with some measures in place eg. mask or some social distancing measures in place as circumstances deem fit.

10. Meanwhile, we need to look into :-

a. Nasal spray vaccines or drugs that can block all form or strains of covid.

b. T-cell vaccines that target the covid core gene (irregardless of how the covid mutate)

c. Anti-viral drug or monoclonal anti-bodies treatment drug - that can treat all strain covid.

11. I don't think we need to panic even when new transmissible covid strain emerge - if we all the above - as long as total population are fully vaccinated with booster ---- we will have acquired "Superhuman Immunity" --- and we can accept covid, new or old strain living with us as endemic mild flu-like virus.

12. Our current Middle Path Endemic step-by-step calibrated opening up of measures are sound - with safeguard in place, including step-by-step opening of borders - with vaccination and covid test in place.

13. We can slide up or down our social distancing measures under the Middle Path Endemic as new circumstances evolved - as our total population is acquiring "Superhuman Immunity" - through Vaccinated + Booster Immunity and some through Vaccinated + Infection Immunity --- without major catastrophe consequences like Europe - with calibrated measures.

14. I think we will be able to see the "Light of the Tunnel" - if we persevere along the Middle Path Endemic measures - especially when the total population including children get fully vaccinated + booster shot for eligible.

[2:00 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: +1

[2:07 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: Hope the gov wl look ahead and make preparations. 

While we ease up on the restrictions, we also need to keep a close eye on the sitn. 

Dun repeat wat happened last year when we Unwittingly let the Delta variant in. 

If we hv to suddenly tighten or close our borders,  based on Intel,  then do it --- Don't Give  ??  Days notice to close --- tt is the biggest mistake to make!!  

Just do it,  to protect our popn!

As the Chinese saying goes,  " Do First,  Talk Later! "

We r fighting a war...  Now is just the lull period.  

We can take a moment to breathe,  but let's not let our guard down.

[2:12 pm, 26/11/2021] +Caleb: From Saturday, all long-term pass holders and short-term visitors with recent travel history to Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe in the last 2 weeks will not be allowed entry into Singapore nor transit through it.

There are no reported cases of the new Covid-19 variant here. https://str.sg/3NR3

[2:29 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[2:42 pm, 26/11/2021] +Joseph: replace "going to" with "might"

[2:42 pm, 26/11/2021] +Laurent: nope 

FEAR is killing us already

[2:43 pm, 26/11/2021] +Speak, hear, do no evil: The variant .1519 has already spread to Hong Kong and …, 

something should be done so that it does not slip in from these countries

[2:43 pm, 26/11/2021] +BL: I support the choice of WFH, but for many who don't have a suitable environment it is very stressful and hard to be productive.

[2:44 pm, 26/11/2021] +BL: Maybe it should be a decision for the employee, rather than the company?

[2:44 pm, 26/11/2021] +Joseph: a healthy respect of FEAR is what keeps people alive

[2:45 pm, 26/11/2021] +BL: Exactly.  Performance and Trust are the measure of a good working relationship between employer and employee. Measure not by who is in the office.

[2:45 pm, 26/11/2021] +Caleb: MOH need to quickly pre-purchase all the medicines for COVID too. With moving towards endemic

[2:45 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: Gov, 

Pls also extend the same restrictions to Hongkong,  now tt ther is news of spread ther as well. 

Dun wait.  

Tq.

[2:46 pm, 26/11/2021] +Caleb: Only 1 in Hong Kong right?

[2:46 pm, 26/11/2021] +Caleb: Not yet spread in HK?

[2:48 pm, 26/11/2021] +Speak, hear, do no evil: It could be multiplying silently

[2:48 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: Dunno. 

Better to err on side of caution than hv it start spreading --> too late by then. 

We hv only just opened up our borders to M'sia. 

Dun wanna see tt close just so soon. 

Many families hv bn separated for almost 2 years...

[2:49 pm, 26/11/2021] +Vivian: BBC News - Covid: New heavily mutated variant B.1.1.529 in South Africa raises concern

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418127

[2:50 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: We must think of the far reaching impact if we kena again. 

Becoz of Delta,  we hv had to close for more than a year. 

If this new strain is more potent than Delta, Wat and how long do u think it wl affect us? 

No need for discussion on WFH as default...  May as well kiss our jobs goodbye if tt happens  ...

[2:52 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: And the gov may run out $$$ to support us & biz,  to tide thru the next wave...  

And so on...

[2:52 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: ** run out of $$

[2:53 pm, 26/11/2021] +RH: Tt wud cause us to plunge into recession.  

Sori,  m just playing the devil here.

[3:04 pm, 26/11/2021] +Elena Woo: 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[4:03 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: I don't understand why long term pass holders cannot also enter Singapore and do quarantine - same as citizens and PRs.  Just because you're an expat doesn't mean that singapore is not your home. Amongst my expat friends the uncertainty that this creates is very worrying - you can go on a business trip and find you cannot get home. During circuit breaker I know many people where one person got stranded outside Singapore whilst  the family was here - in one case the mother got stuck in Hong Kong for three months and her husband and two year old baby were here.

[4:07 pm, 26/11/2021] +BL: Yes, although Singapore has a legal right to do this under international law, I don't understand the justification.

[4:41 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: FEAR is the Mind Killer...

[4:44 pm, 26/11/2021] +Laurent: And the government is spreading it

[4:46 pm, 26/11/2021] +Rama: 😱😳😨🤦‍♀️

[4:47 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: Media is spreading it (cos it's sensationalistic)... our govt is typically quite conservative, so sometimes the people will follow and scare themselves.

[4:47 pm, 26/11/2021] +Rama: Is our local media towing a neutral line in reporting and fact finding the facts!?

[4:47 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: actually there's no data yet to know how severe this new variant will be. It COULD be more transmissible. It could be less.

[4:48 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: all media are bias towards sensationalistic reporting unfortunately... especially in the internet age.

[4:48 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: need to capture attention to earn advertising money.

[4:49 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: nobody will click on the article that says - "XXX number of COVID variants discovered since beginning of 2021, 99.9% of them do nothing"

[4:50 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: but everyone gonna click on "New variant will KILL everyone!"

[4:50 pm, 26/11/2021] +JC: the truth is somewhere in between

[5:27 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Singapore government pre-emptive move to close borders with those few countries with the new strain is an appropriate move.

2. This strain display a transmissible dominant strain (similar to Delta if not worst) - as seen how fast it spread among the few countries.

3. While we wait for WHO  emergency meetings as well as more data emerging from this new strains.

4. Delta variants experience that we have learn from - certainly merit our pre-emptive move on this new strain - while we can loosen or tighten further as we have more information on this strain.

[5:27 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/25/who-calls-special-meeting-to-discuss-new-covid-variant-from-south-africa-with-large-number-of-mutations.html

WHO calls special meeting to discuss new Covid variant found in South Africa with 'a large number of mutations'.

[6:11 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

EU, UK, Japan and Singapore order border close to countries with new strain.

WHO confer emergency meetings to discuss move on new strains.

New strains has all the characteristics that can become the dominant strain (similar to Delta or out surge Delta).

[6:11 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3157480/europe-scrambles-boost-covid-19-defences-after-new-variant

Europe scrambles to boost Covid-19 defences after new variant detected in South Africa

[6:17 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: This story is almost a year old.

[6:18 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: And so is this one.

[6:18 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: What point are you trying to make?

[6:20 pm, 26/11/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/12/spike-and-nucleocapsid-protein-mutations-in-tanzanian-and-ugandan-strains-of-sars-cov-2-demand-attention/

[6:23 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oops attached the wrong news

[6:25 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/britain-flags-concern-over-new-coronavirus-variant-detected-in-south-africa

Britain stops some flights from Africa over new Covid-19 variant worries

[6:28 pm, 26/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/japan-tighten-border-controls-s-africa-others-new-virus-variant-jiji-2021-11-26/

Europe and Asia alarm by new strains tighten border control.

[6:28 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: It is worth noting that:

- in the case of the article you posted about Japan, it said that the ban does not apply to "Japanese nationals and foreigners living in Japan will be permitted to return to the country." 

- in the case of the article you posted about France etc is says that the ban does not apply to: "French or EU citizens, those with residency rights there or business travellers".

[my emphasis]

[6:30 pm, 26/11/2021] +Cross finger: All people living in Singapore should be able to return to their families - after quarantine of course.

[6:31 pm, 26/11/2021] +Rama: Yes

[6:46 pm, 26/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:47 pm, 26/11/2021] +Kevin: Good night Megan

[6:59 pm, 26/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====

REACH 295 - What are your views on the eased restrictions as Singapore returns to the transition phase of living with COVID-19 on Monday (Nov 22), in particular the increase in dining, gathering group size and daily household visitors to 5? (SK)

20 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[3:00 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 3pm to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

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We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[3:03 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

From Monday (Nov 22), fully-vaccinated people will be able to dine at restaurants and other food and beverage outlets in groups of up to five, even if they are not from the same household. With the easing of restrictions, people will also be able to gather in groups of up to five and receive five visitors per day, up from two now. The relaxed dining-in rules will take effect at hawker centres and coffeeshops from Tuesday (Nov 23), as long as these establishments are able to check patrons' vaccination status. If no such systems are in place, group sizes will remain capped at two.

💬 What are your views on the eased restrictions as Singapore returns to the transition phase of living with COVID-19 on Monday (Nov 22), in particular the increase in dining, gathering group size and daily household visitors to 5? 

Singapore is in a better position to ease measures now, given that the overall Covid-19 situation has remained stable and the weekly infection growth rate has stayed at one or lower, Trade and Industry Minister Gan Kim Yong said at a press conference on Saturday.

The proportion of severe cases has also been stable, added Mr Gan, who co-chairs the multi-ministry task force handling the pandemic. The current tightened measures were due to lapse on Monday. But he urged unvaccinated people to stay at home as much as possible, to protect themselves against the virus. People visiting households with unvaccinated people are also encouraged to test themselves prior to the visit.

"I know some prefer to open up more quickly, but we must do so in a very careful and step-by-step manner," Mr Gan said, reiterating that the task forcewill observe outcomes from the current easing before relaxing measures further. "This way, we hope to avoid any disruptive U-turns."

Other rules to be relaxed from Monday include those imposed on weddings and solemnisations, while vaccination-differentiated measures will be expanded to hospitals and nursing homes.

The announcements include:

👉🏼 Up to 5 fully vaccinated people can dine out from Nov 22; social gathering size also raised to 5 for all: https://str.sg/3NcJ

👉🏼 Entry to libraries, participation in some community centre activities restricted to fully-vaccinated people from Dec 1: https://str.sg/3Ncp

👉🏼 People can get Covid-19 booster shots 5 months after their second dose from Wednesday: https://str.sg/3Nc3

👉🏼 Covid-19 vaccines for children five to 11 should be available from January: Kenneth Mak: https://str.sg/3Ncc

👉🏼 Vaccinated people allowed to visit hospitals, residential care homes from Monday: https://str.sg/3NcS

👉🏼 Singapore 'optimistic' that land VTL with Malaysia can launch end Nov, details expected next week: https://str.sg/3Nci

👉🏼 Support measures to be lessened gradually as S'pore eases Covid-19 curbs, $90m package for firms and individuals: https://str.sg/3Ncw

📌 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/dining-in-and-social-gathering-capacity-increased-to-5-what-you-need-to-know-about-covid

-----

[3:10 pm, 20/11/2021] +Caleb: All can go back to work?

[3:13 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Coffee shops and hawker centre can accommodate 5 dine in for vaccinated.

2 for unvaccinated.

But how to check vaccination status at coffeeshops?

Now family of more than 2 got to split tables. Not convenient.

[3:14 pm, 20/11/2021] +Rama: How about wedding Dinner pax !?

[3:18 pm, 20/11/2021] +JC: Please open up public outdoor sports facilities and remove all administrative restrictions on number of pax at each facility ASAP. We are having a surge in obesity and renewed emphasis should now be placed to encourage resumption of normal sports activities as much as possible.

[3:25 pm, 20/11/2021] +Anthony: Hi, I can understand business owner needs more crowd to patronize their Foods & Beverage ,

However Coffeeshop & Hawker Centre stall owner not keen to chat all the customer Vaccination Status it will be a Grey Area

Plus, our Naughty Not Kiasi Old Uncle Wil be talking loud & having Alcohol in their mouth

Beer Lady Promoter or Hostess Wil surrounding all this Old Uncle to consume more alcohol drinks

Are our Government or MOH like to see this become a super spreader events

Especially all the vendors in Coffeeshop hardly care on the Consumer their behavior in Coffeeshop

Shouting & Laughing without Mask Up Wil be back again in our Noisy Coffeeshop once again

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[3:36 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: Great!  Good to see progress. Still don't understand why I can go to the cinema but I can't watch my kid play football during training and why they are limited to 2.

[3:37 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: Yes please.

[3:39 pm, 20/11/2021] +Anthony: Hi ,I like to highlight Another thing,

Why Hospital or Nursing Home or Home facilities

Always had Cluster one by another can be 100 or 200+

After more then a year I observed of this

Are our MOH keen to redevelopment redesign new facilities like Hospital or Nursing Home

Into more single beds with minority chances getting bigger cluster

I hope MOH Wil have a look on this issue

A.B.C ward in future new Hospital should be scrapped off

Instead of having  A.B.C ward , the ward should be comfortable one 

All walks of life can recovery in a safe environment by design single room having toliet 

Cluster Wil less hardly to emerge

MOH should stop Classification on A.B.C. Ward

More design on service or quality for food

Rather on ABC ward

As well less Cluster

.the most important thing for future outbreaks

[3:50 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: Yes interesting point. A B C feels like banding our elderly and sick into different status which is not 'One Singapore'

[4:20 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[4:23 pm, 20/11/2021] +JC: I would encourage MOH to consider removing WFH as the default for most companies. Given the extremely high vaccination rate of the working population, there is no reason why WFH should remain the norm.

[4:23 pm, 20/11/2021] +JC: Long-term WFH arrangements will encourage companies to consider further off-shoring of work to lower costs countries

[4:23 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: At least make it easier to go into the office

[4:24 pm, 20/11/2021] +JC: and also negatively impact those who don't have ideal WFH environments. There is also the undocumented impact on retail/F&B sector, especially in the CBD area.

[4:25 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: Be good for mental health to be with people, and good for companies to bring back some team spirit.

[4:25 pm, 20/11/2021] +JC: Businesses need all the business they can get, esp if the govt is going to taper off support

[4:54 pm, 20/11/2021] +BL: Does playing football count as a social gathering? 😁

[5:42 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you on today's topic!

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[5:52 pm, 20/11/2021] +XianceAfcai: How abt 20 players in the basketball courts with mask? Break smm?

[6:09 pm, 20/11/2021] +Vana: For me, I’ll still think WFH shld remain as norm as gov prob shld slowly open up at one go instead of opening up at a fast speed and resulted in a turn in situation

[6:10 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/we-are-the-last-resort-german-doctors-frustrated-amid-covid-19-pandemic-surge

We are the last resort': German doctors frustrated amid Covid-19 pandemic surge.

Germany seeking hospitals beds from other EU countries after its hospitals overwhelm.

[6:10 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/europe-the-only-region-with-rising-covid-19-deaths-says-who

Europe the only region with rising Covid-19 deaths: WHO.

[6:11 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/germany-recommends-covid-19-booster-shots-all-adult-population-2322716

Germany recommends COVID-19 booster shots for all adult population.

[6:11 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiYGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIxL25vdi8xOS9hdXN0cmlhLXBsYW5zLWNvbXB1bHNvcnktY292aWQtdmFjY2luYXRpb24tZm9yLWFsbNIBYGh0dHBzOi8vYW1wLnRoZWd1YXJkaWFuLmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIxL25vdi8xOS9hdXN0cmlhLXBsYW5zLWNvbXB1bHNvcnktY292aWQtdmFjY2luYXRpb24tZm9yLWFsbA?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

Austria plans compulsory Covid vaccination for all.

[6:13 pm, 20/11/2021] +Caleb: +1

[6:15 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Daily death number still so high.

Wonder how come those anti-viral pill or monoclonal antibodies treatment not effective to stop the death.

[6:22 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fauci-boosters-hospital-breakthrough-cases_n_61959c0ce4b025be1ad65b7d

Fauci Warns Of Uptick In Hospitalizations Among Fully Vaccinated, Touts Boosters.

Unvaccinated and wane immunity that need booster - trigger the uptick in hospitalisation.

[6:22 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFVRJCXlRLicXiLa0_VLkJsqFwgEKg8IACoHCAowjuuKAzCWrzww9oAY?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

F.D.A. Plans to Authorize Pfizer Boosters for All Adults This Week.

[6:23 pm, 20/11/2021] +N: Personally I'm not too concerned about 2 or 5 pax dining rules. There would/should still be distance between diners. I am more concerned about the crowded public transport and would appreciate if there are some ways to control number of pax in train cabins or buses to avoid shoulder-to-shoulder packed situations.

[6:23 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our booster shot percentage coverage need to reach and exceed 50% for total population before we are consider safe.

[6:26 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Currently our booster shot is only 22%.

15% unvaccinated (including children and some adults and 61,000 seniors).

[6:26 pm, 20/11/2021] +N: Also because dining at food outlets is a choice, if you are not comfortable, you have options. But public transport for work isn't a choice for many, unless wfh is default or permitted

[6:47 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-reports-record-new-covid-19-cases-as-serious-infections-cause-worry

Even with 78.5% vaccination, without booster, Skorea living with covid see a spike in infection and hospitalisation number.

[6:47 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:48 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Skorea living with covid - see a spike in infection.

Without booster, a free for all reopening is a recipe for trouble.

[6:49 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: 

Pls look into pricing if ART kits. 

At $4 each,  it is still not ideal. 

Esp if we nd to practise SMM. 

Self test a must b4 we go bk to office,  or b4 we visit hm tt hv UnVax ppl ... and so on.

[6:49 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: * of

[6:50 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: Agree. 

Ppl tend to forget so easily. Tt we are still not out of the woods yet.

[6:50 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: Public tpt needs to be looked into as part of SMM.

[6:52 pm, 20/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our reopening must be based on calibrated step by step opening - and not a sudden opening thinking we are out of the wood.

We must be guided by -

- the booster percentage

- the vast reduction in the unvaccinated

- the vast reduction in hospitalisation number, ICU and death.

[6:52 pm, 20/11/2021] +Rama: 👍👌🤟👏

[6:53 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: Hear!  Hear!

[6:53 pm, 20/11/2021] +RH: Plus make ART test kits cheaper,  pls!

[6:53 pm, 20/11/2021] +Rama: Yeah

[6:59 pm, 20/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=======

REACH 294 - What do you think of the new measures, such as the eased dining measures and affordable Antigen Rapid Test kits, announced on Monday (15 Nov) to help Singapore live with Covid-19? (SK)

17 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:45 am, 17/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from * 10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

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We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:02 am, 17/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

New measures were announced on Monday (Nov 15) by the multi-ministry task force on Covid-19 to help Singapore live with the Covid-19 pandemic. This includes the extension of dining concessions to hawker centres and coffeeshops to allow fully-vaccinated household members to eat out in groups of up to five by the end of November. 

Finance Minister Lawrence Wong said an update may be provided early next week if Singapore should move on current Covid-19 measures.  

💬 What do you think of the new measures, such as the eased dining measures and affordable Antigen Rapid Test kits, announced on Monday (15 Nov) to help Singapore live with Covid-19? 

For those who are eligible, will you be taking your booster shot? Why or why not? 

The measures are:

▶️ Fully vaccinated people from the same household will be able to dine in groups of up to five at hawker centres from end-November 

▶️ New, affordable self test kits 

▶️ Pilot scheme to ease capacity limits and zoning requirements for selected MICE, performance and sporting events with new 'Vaccination-Differentiated Safe Management Measures + Test' protocol 

▶️ Vaccines for children: New supply agreement inked with Pfizer for Covid-19 vaccines for kids 

▶️ S'pore to start VTLs with Indonesia and India from Nov 29, and with Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia from Dec 6 

▶️ Easing of restrictions for migrant workers from Dec 3 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/cheaper-art-tests-well-below-10-pilot-events-to-allow-more-people-covid-19-measures 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spore-trying-very-hard-to-avoid-start-stops-in-covid-19-measures-lawrence-wong 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/72-reduction-in-covid-19-infection-risk-for-moderna-booster-shot-after-pfizer-jabs-62 

👉 https://www.facebook.com/100064362986604/posts/264409149047849/

-----

[10:11 am, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: ;why conference can have 5 pax dine in?

can offer this to Singapore resident?

[10:11 am, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: why this option not given to us?

[10:19 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: I realised the price of ART KIT price wil going down soon ,

But based on the price as $7 ,I do not believe it's was a price that everyone can accept or afford to buy just for one time use testing kit

Maybe  Government  thought they already doing a lot even few dollars  down .

But sadly enough the price of $6 or $7 would not encourage people to do more testing

I hope Government would soon understand the more people frequently doing more testing wil keep the Covid Case number down

It's was important that other parts of world government believe Singapore Government are looking for Safe Reopens ,Not a Rush one

[10:21 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8355 8852: Is booster neccessay for middle age group

[10:21 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8233 5453: even some cannot afford - they still need to buy if needed. Which is a huge cost to them.

[10:24 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Happy to see eased measures for vax people. More steps in the right direction. Very keen to see families able to visit each other and friends to go out together, ie more than 2 people at a time.

[10:24 am, 17/11/2021] +65 8355 8852: $7 for ART is still too Exp for big family including the parents.. Hope Gov can do more

[10:25 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I have booked my booster, although I switched from pfizer to moderna based on yesterday's report that 2 Pfizer and 1 moderna is best. May or May not be true, but evidence suggests it. I booked my booster to better protect me and my family, also to help Singapore continue to open up.

[10:26 am, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $7 can buy 2 packs of chicken rice from hawker centre.

[10:26 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Would have liked to see the available shots go to the under 12s already, but understand gov isn't ready to approve.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Hope we have enough stocks and the vaccination program for kids can be delivered super fast.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Gov should take more steps for Vaccinated Differentiated Measures as it goes along.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: We cannot keep allowing anti-vaxxers to spread falsehoods.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Agreed

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Especially endangering our elderly who are most at risk of death or serious illness.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: Agreed

Imagine a test kit cost $7, need to test for at least 7 days, that will be $49 for a person.

If big family has 8-10 members need to be test on these 7 days, they will need to pay $392 to $490 for it

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: And they are most susceptible to falsehoods.

[10:27 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: Agreed too

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I'm interest how many ART tests are being done each day and what the expectation was.

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I agree that everyone has the freedom of choice whether to get vaccinated or not but NOT at the risk of our beloved elderly and children who are innocent.

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Is it voluntary or just for those going into the workplace?

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Every life is too precious.

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: 1 ART test daily. Result valid only for 24 hours

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Unvaxed should stay home.

[10:28 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Good luck with that.

[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: I mean across the country

[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: It's happening in other parts of the world.

[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Just look at the plethora of Telegram chat groups planning and discussing how to override or bend the ruless.

[10:29 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: They have plenty of tactics.

[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Linda: That’s good question

[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: You are right. Unvaccinated should be locked down.

[10:30 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: If any of you have time, go to Telegram and explore the anti-vax chat groups. You will be horrified.

[10:31 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: "The 2G regulations are similar to, though not as stringent as, rules introduced in Austria on Monday, under which unvaccinated people above the age of 12 in the states of Upper Austria and Salzburg have been confined to their homes for 10 days, except for necessary tasks such as going to school or work, to the doctors, to shop for food, or for exercise."

[10:31 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Parts of Europe doing circuit breakers rules for unvaxd

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Germany is a dollar a day

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: for the ART kit

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Should be prosecuted for acting against the public interest.

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I welcome the day they're investigated.

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: I am perplexed why Gov is so lax combating such falsehoods.

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: we're all learn this from the army haha

[10:32 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: Good point

[10:42 am, 17/11/2021] +KSFoong: I look forward to see the government to allow up to 5 vaccinated persons (can be from diiferent household) to dine together, or up to 5 household, max 10 per table for dinning. Restaurants to ensure each table to be at least 1 meter a apart.

[10:46 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Despite being more 'daring' and 'endemic' than us, Europe is now slowly backtracking and we are starting to see random lockdowns.

[10:46 am, 17/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: So I guess SG should not follow their footsteps of opening up too quickly. Steadily yes. Haphazardly, no.

[10:49 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: And in India Covid Is not raising!!

Sg govt should Look into Covaxin Study

I rather take Covaxin booster than same mRNA

[10:50 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: May be Its early to say... But for now 

India seems Achieved Herd Immunity, along with Vaccine Immunity..

[11:14 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: 👍

[11:15 am, 17/11/2021] +BL: We'll have to see, that's what they said in Europe a few months ago, and the US!

[11:19 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Infection numbers not rising .... could it be because they are not testing/reporting?

[11:21 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: May be 

But ICU numbers or deaths also not increasing

Experts said Expect third wave in August..

And then Sep... Now mid Nov ...no sign of 3rd wave

[11:23 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: If by Dec or Jan Not many cases then we can say India Reached Herd & Vaccine immunity

I sincerly Hope MOH will look into Covaxin efficacy data

[11:32 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: https://theconversation.com/after-indias-brutal-coronavirus-wave-two-thirds-of-population-has-been-exposed-to-sars-cov2-165050

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/25/world/asia/india-covid-death-estimates.html

Maybe the Eh-Murr-icans are just jealous 👆🤷‍♂️  or maybe ...

[11:34 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: 3 packets of Chicken Rice to many of Singaporean🤣🤣

[11:37 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: I never said There were No deaths

We all know how many people died in Firsf and second wave

Here i am saying about third wave

Which many europe countries facing

But india seems stable..

[11:37 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Stable now..

[11:41 am, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: Singapore unlikely to go for freelockdown ,

MOH never put up a number ,which would allow the authority to go for circuit breaker

Unlike European Countries  

No worries hopefully

[11:43 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Can't blame the virus. Their function is to mutate and stay alive 🤣🤣🤣

[11:43 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not saying you are wrong ... I am just sharing why I have my doubts that Covaxin is the reason for the spectacular turn around in India ... assuming the India-reported numbers are true,  and if the article is to be believed the number of people vaxxed with Covaxin is miniscule ,, according to the reporter, "Covishield from AstraZeneca ... accounting for 87.5% of the vaccines administered to date (20 AUG 2021) ....

[11:55 am, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: According to the report (1) large % of the population had caught CV19 and recovered >> gained immunity (2) comparing serology tests and Official case reporting, the numbers are under-reported 33 to 1

"_Sero-positivity among children was 57.2% in those aged 6-9 years and 61.6% among those who are 10-17 years old. Experts believe that there is not much scientific evidence that children would be disproportionately vulnerable in a third wave. The government, however, anticipates the possibility of intermittent surges in the number of cases and prepared operational guidelines for children and adolescents in preparation for a third wave. Seroprevalence among those above 45 years was 77.6% and 66.7% among younger adults, indicating the effect of vaccination as well as infections.

The coronavirus had spread through the entire country; seroprevalence among the rural population (66.5%) was only slightly lower than in urban counterparts. A wide range of interstate differences have emerged, from a low of 44.4% in Kerala to 79% in Madhya Pradesh.

The extent of undercount – the difference between estimated cases (based on seroprevalence) and actual cases detected by RT-PCR and rapid antigen tests – is particularly worrying. Nationally, the system missed 33 cases for every one detected._"

[11:56 am, 17/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I have a safe distancing officer violating my personal space by standing next to me and asked me about my vaccination. She laughed when she saw I became flustered. I thought I violated a law. Later after she Left.  I thought I just share with her about body language personal space. She took offence and said she knows and commented that she is doing her job? I hope the other SMM ambassador is practicing respecting others when they do their job and not feed their ego. Like the earlier offender that went to a shop to get free service

[11:59 am, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes i totally agree 

Deffinatly Under reported cases and also actual Deaths are much higher than The numbers.

And Yes about herd immunity is More than Vaccinated gained Immunity.

If This Waves Are happening again and again 

If Herd immunity is the only solution

Then Current Method of Dealing is not going to work!

We should aim for Herd plus Vaccine immunity

Just depending on One is not Going to work out..

[0:03 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: New measures are in the right direction, hopefully can be groups of 5 regardless of household address. Especially for family who may live at different addresses. 

I’m not eligible yet but am not keen on the booster shot tbh

[0:04 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My observation of SDAs are that they are mostly aiming to collect salary just for showing up. Some (as reported/caught) don the uniform to blackmail F&B/Biz owners for freebies.

Recently, before the 5 from same family can dine together rule was announced, I saw these 2 SDAs watching a group of diners - who were clearly in breach of the rules - seemingly discussing whether to take action, but ultimately, pretending they never saw anything and walking away  😂  

Act blur live longer wins the day 😂

[0:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: The point about eventually needing to encounter the CV19 in order to trigger our own T-cell response and immunity had been mentioned by G/MOH and medical experts.

The right vaccine increases our odds that we do not fall seriously sick while awaiting out own T-cell response to kick in when we finally encounter/catch it. 

I think that is also the reason why G/MOH is adjusting restrictions... to allow interaction - and encountering the virus, keeping an eye on hospital/ICU capacity and sometimes having to tighten restrictions again when cases are rising too rapidly and threatening the hospital/ICU capacity

[0:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: I am in on some of them

[0:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes  ... I joined in to see what is being discussed/shared once in a while.. its very worrying. Hope the G/MOH is keeping an eye on this and have plan on how to reign this in

[0:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: S$7 is still too high.!

[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Likewise

[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Agree

[0:12 pm, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes agree.. i read in news that Covaxin efficacy is more For Delta variant... Thats why suggesting to Look into it.

[0:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Suma pamu: Deffinatly  still too High ..

[0:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: reign rein

[0:15 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I confess to having reservations about the booster, just human to feel that I think! However I am confident that we have now seen enough evidence it is safe and effective, and it will help to open up the country.

[0:16 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Good

[0:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

21% of booster shot in Singapore is still too low to effectively beat the Delta wave.

Israel booster shot percentage is much higher and have beaten the Delta wave.

[0:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-1-million-israelis-who-didnt-get-3rd-dose-to-lose-green-pass-on-sunday/

Over 1 million Israelis who haven’t had 3rd dose to lose Green Pass on Sunday.

At 42% booster shot, Rt = 0.78 - Delta wave have been beaten back.

[0:22 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-covid-booster-shots-92-effective-at-preventing-serious-illness/

Israeli study: COVID booster shots 92% effective at preventing serious illness.

42% booster shot at Oct 2021.

[0:27 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.dw.com/en/israels-bet-on-early-covid-booster-shots-pays-off/a-59787257

Israel's bet on early COVID booster shots pays off.

[0:28 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I agree, and that's why I'm getting my booster.

[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Our government should start promoting booster shots and give us timely updates on the percentage as it increases.

[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: There is a daily update from Gov sg on the WhatsApp group

[0:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: [Sent by Gov.sg – 17 Nov]

As of 16 Nov 2021: 

- 1,501 cases in hospital

- 234 require O2 supplementation 

- 54 under close monitoring in ICU 

- 68 critically ill in ICU

- Overall ICU utilisation rate: 63.3%  

2,361 cases discharged; 363 are seniors aged 60 years and above.

Over the last 28 days, of the infected individuals: 

- 98.7% have mild/no symptoms

- 0.8% require O2 supplementation

- 0.3% are in ICU

- 0.2% died

As of 15 Nov: 

- 94% of eligible population completed full regimen/received 2 doses of vaccines

- 85% of total population completed full regimen/received 2 doses of vaccines, 86% received at least 1 dose, 21% received boosters

As of 16 Nov, there are 2,069 new cases. The weekly infection growth rate is 0.88.

go.gov.sg/moh161121

[0:35 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255

Those who are interested in medical study of the effectiveness of 2 jabs + 1 booster shot.

Israel study is based on 3 Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines.

[0:39 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: With 16 (and still counting) many VTL being opened,  what's the hurry? 

Can we wait to see the impact b4 opening so many,  so fast,  so soon? 

Are ther sufficient Checks in place to authenticate every Vac Pass?

We do not want to be caught off guard again.  

Ther wl be errant ppl who wan to try their luck or test the system, albeit this may be few.  But tt is all it takes for another fresh wave to happen.

[1:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: SG one of the lowest COVID deaths per million

[1:32 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: According to the stats published by CAAS the majority of the people entering Singapore via the VTL scheme are Singapore residents so there is no need to authenticate every vac pass because its our MOH that issued the majority of them.

[1:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +RH: Tq for the update.

[1:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: AIC engaged over 670,000 seniors on Covid-19 vaccination via visits, calls since Feb

Seniors who are keen on getting vaccinated but have difficulties doing so can seek help from the Agency for Integrated Care (AIC), as part of its efforts to protect the high-risk group against Covid-19.

More: https://str.sg/3GFw

[1:41 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The daily death number is still quite high.

This is very concerning.

Anyway to reduce the death rate among those in ICU?

Yesterday reported 68 intubated. 44 unstable in ICU.

[1:49 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Very happy that hawker centre and coffeeshops allow 5 same household to dine in.

2. Only concern how does hawker centre and coffeeshops check that the 5 are of the same household especially coffeeshops as there are too many and too porous.

[1:52 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

3. Some coffeeshops say don't want to take the risk - because if customers caught not from the same household - coffeeshops need to close for 10 days because of the breach - and they will suffer greater loss.

[2:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Seems the wrong people are being punished for being the rules. It feels like a punishment anyway!

[2:21 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Maybe those caught breaking the rules should have to reimburse the stall owners for loss of earnings

[2:28 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. If don't punish the f&b, f&b can deliberately flout the rules and escape from it.

2. Customers deliberately flout it should be punished.

3. So it is catch 22 situation.

[2:29 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: 👍

[2:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/nov/17/pfizer-strikes-deal-to-allow-generic-versions-of-its-covid-pill-for-worlds-poor?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[2:34 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: If rule 2 is enforced then it becomes responsibility of the individual. If the penalty is harsh enough they will be deterred. There is no defnece for the customer since they plainly know if they are living together.much harder for the coffeehouse to know and easier to be tricked.

[2:35 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Not understanding why this is catch 22.

[2:35 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well let the authority decide.

[2:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Yes, if the authority can identify the rule breaker they can be penalised. By stopping the customers from breaking the rules then everyone is protected.

[2:37 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some restaurants were ordered to close because they flout the dine in rule.

Both restaurants and customers were punished.

Both are at fault. So these will be a fair outcome.

By only punishing one side when 2 are at fault is not a fair judgement.

[2:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: that ... is the meaning of Catch 22 😂

[2:39 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But if the f&b have checked but customers deliberately flout it, then rightfully customers should be punish.

But how to determine f&b is not at fault?

[2:39 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So f&b to play safe decides to stick at 2 than 5.

[2:40 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: So everyone loses out. That's a really bad policy then.

[2:41 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I do think we have too many complexities, when simpler approaches are available

[2:41 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Restaurants easier to enforce.

But coffeeshops are made up of many stallholders.

If one table flout the rules, all stallholders suffer.

[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Yes, that's why I'm suggesting customers should be heavily penalised, not coffee shops.

[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is what I mean catch 22.

Open up more business.

But flout the rules, 10 days business loss.

[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: I suspect the reason is the gov needs coffeehouse to check, and they won't if there are no penalties for them.

[2:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Got it

[2:43 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then restaurants and other f&b outlets and food court and hawker centre will cry foul.

How come coffeeshops special treatment.

[2:45 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Because much harder for them to enforce

[2:46 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Anyway,  moving on :)

[2:47 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Why should F&B bear the bulk of burden of checking and ensuring?

Everyone knows the rules. At most, F&B be made to remind patrons when they arrive, wither verbally or with signages... if the patrons choose to knowingly flout the rules, then they should be harshly penalised!

Make sure the penalty is harsh enough and make sure it is publicised. Make an example of these people then you will see if anyone still dares to try their luck.

[2:47 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well Bloomberg 5 dine in has cause an uproar.

So coffeeshops, if got special treatment - I won't be surprised if someone dig it up - trigger another uproar.

[2:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Not fair to place the burden of enforcement on the F&B which has no real authority to enforce the rule.

[2:50 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I keep an open mind.

Let authority decide.

[3:01 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: 18ppl death yesterday & for the past month daliy death around 5 -20

If U dare to tell me small death compare other countries

Simply Bull Shift

[3:02 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: MOH must save life ,not life wait until collapse

[3:09 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: Think again, If MRT or Buses having Crashed on the road 18 lost their life

We may talk about this for months

[3:11 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: When comes life thread everything should be seriously , Find every single solution to save everyone life

Rather then said small number of death rate compare here or there

But people's already gone🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[3:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Are you saying the G/MOH/Hospitals not doing all they can to save these people's lives?

[3:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: If Government can deploy the ✌️RED SHIRT✌️at our Hawker Centre ,Why they can't do that at Coffeeshop

What's the difference🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️

[3:19 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Note hawker centre and coffeeshops are a special breed compare to restaurants, f&b and food courts - because they allow unvaccinated (dine in at 2).

The rest must be fully vaccinated to go in.

So hawker centre and coffeeshops - will add more complexity into checking same household for 5 and Vaccination status.

So authority will have to come out with a good solution for the open up - as they're more complex than thought.

[3:19 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: I wondering why the death rate stIl remain  high everyday, after a month stIl remain the same

[3:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Maybe because more people are getting infected?

[3:21 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: due to relaxing of restrictions and people becoming more complacent?

[3:23 pm, 17/11/2021] +Anthony: If G decide to deploy Red Shirt to few coffeeshop in a few area coffeeshop to do the checking

Just like they are Mall to Neighbourhood centre

[3:25 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: Strict Covid-19 testing for high-profile Bloomberg forum as S'pore revives global event hub ambition

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/strict-testing-designated-shuttle-buses-for-high-profile-bloomberg-forum-as-spore-revives

[3:25 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: 'Ruili toddler has taken 70 tests' as China presses strict zero-Covid-19 strategy

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/fatigue-and-frustration-as-china-presses-strict-zero-covid-strategy

[3:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I think i remember you arguing that the G/MOH is wrong to implement differentiated measures for the unvaccinated previously.

Well.. even with the differentiated measures meant to protect these (more) vulnerable people, they obviously are not accepting the rules and/or not following the recommendations.

This is exactly what is expected. Restrictions relaxed for the majority who are vaccinated, if the vulnerable group is allowed to mingle freely, the incidence of catching CV19 will increase, and so will the NUMBER OF DEATH. It is not rocket science.

[3:30 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: A very grey area considering what we are dealing with

[3:32 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: We have had 612 deaths with a population of 5.6 million.

The USA has had 764,364 deaths with a population of 330 million.

Belgium has 26,444 deaths with a population of 11.6 million.

If our numbers are pro-rated to match the US population size and thus to be comparable to the USA, we would have had 12,971 deaths.  Similarly, compared to Belgium we would have had 12,766 deaths.

As above, we have actually had 612 deaths.

So the US and Belgium have a death rate which is 20 times higher than ours.  Even Israel - which is regularly mentioned on this group as an example - has a death rate which is 13 times higher than ours.

It is fact that our death rate is small compared to other countries.    The Government has done a good job.

[3:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: It's also worth remembering that 612 is over 18 months.  Singapore generally has 600 flu deaths a year (i.e. 900 over 18 months).

[3:37 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: MOH is not GOD 

Doctors are not GOD

[3:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +...: 😂

[3:58 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: People are dying due to all kind of causes. COVID accelerated them. But it will be counted as Covid death.

[3:59 pm, 17/11/2021] +Angelica: The hospitals n Govt are doing so. Hence the current restrictions and attempts to increase capacity. I simply wish to state that covid deaths are being blown out of proportion. Anyhow this is stil a virus and uncontrollable, as you can see even vaccinated people can get critically ill.  Most of the countries that have learnt to live w covid have gone through a wave of infections already unlike SG and may also have high vaccination rates. Our infection and death rates remain high because we have not been exposed to the virus yet and also still have many unvaccinated people. 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/commentary/more-anxious-covid-19-deaths-flu-dengue-endemic-2251616

[4:00 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapores-overall-death-rate-did-not-increase-despite-covid-19

[4:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If we go by that logic, then any disease/accident actually accelerates NATURAL death. 

Also, no one actually dies of HIV/AIDS ... but rather another disease/ailment due to the body's inability to ward off that infection/illness. Going by that yardstick, maybe then there should not have been any record of HIV/AIDS being the cause of death?

[4:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: So the question is whether we should attribute Covid death count to Covid solely.

[4:33 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My question is, where do we draw the line, who should decide, why ... which narrative benefits whom, and finally, to what end?

[4:35 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: It's a very hard choice even for the most esteemed professional to make.

[4:40 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If attributing it to Covid highlights the dangers of this virus - which I think is fair, since there is no argument that it does at the very least accelerate the "process - and draws everyone's attention to it. To be more vigilante and place more focus on remedy. Then I don't see why not.

On the other hand, if the objective of denying that CV19 played an important, an ultimately final role in accelerating death, then I wonder, why diminish the focus, or obscure the obvious dangers by attributing it to another disease even if pre-existing?

[4:42 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: To win an argument? Or because focusing the remedy on the pre-existing/underlying condition alone is enough?

[4:46 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Indeed ... and a less pressing issue to address in our fight against the pandemic, in my opinion

[4:47 pm, 17/11/2021] +Sam: Precisely this is the point. It seems that some have the view that our government failed miserably as so many death due to Covid. But there were a lot of death due to pneumonia pre-Covid period. So has our government failed to control Covid death. We need to look at the right perspective.

[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Maybe gov to come with all death statistics

[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: And then compare with covid

[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Its always been available ... on Singstats

[4:48 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Not available one news

[4:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Ppl don't go into singstats

[4:49 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: We need to study the handling once things are back to normal.  In the middle of a pandemic, not possible to make conclusions but easy to throw accusations.

[4:51 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: So you want something .. its available .. maybe you didn't know before .. now someone tells you where to find it ... but you say you don't go there,,, so to you its as good as don;t have, and should be served on a platter to you 🤔

[4:52 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Can generally people don't go Singstats ma. Then gov everyday keep telling people how many ppl die of covid

[4:52 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Reminds me of the saying, "“you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"

[4:53 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Don;t mean to be argumentative, but Singstats is the permanent "home" or resource for all Singapore related data and statistics

[4:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: If it is something of huge concern to you ... I believe you would click that extra page and search for it ... if not, then maybe that info is not that important to the person afterall?

[4:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Caleb: Then people will only focus on the death rate of covid.

[4:56 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I guess it depends on what the ultimate objective is.

To highlight the dangers of CV19? Or to send the message that it is nothing to worry about. I am sure the messaging will change as the situation evolves.

[5:07 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/life-saver-boosters-cut-elderlys-risk-of-covid-death-to-50th-of-unvaxxed-rate/

Israel data: Boosters cut elderly’s risk of COVID death to 50th of unvaxxed rate

'Dramatic figures' show over-60s who shun vaccines are not only at much greater risk of death than triple-vaxxed, but also have 65 times the chance of getting seriously ill.

[5:08 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

High number of daily death from covid is preventable.

1. Getting unvaccinated to vaccinate.

2. Get those vaccinated after 6 months to get the booster shot.

[5:09 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.trtworld.com/life/israel-makes-booster-shot-mandatory-latest-updates-50431

Israel makes booster shot mandatory – latest updates.

[5:11 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/covid-israel-unvaccinated-17-nearly-half-deaths-booster-pfizer-1.10216067

Israel's Unvaccinated 17% Now Account for Nearly Half of COVID Deaths.

[5:13 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: Don't understand why so many people seem to believe any opinion published in Straits Times but do not believe irrefutable and provable facts published in the same paper.

[5:14 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: This is what I think......

Comparing those statistics with CV19 death numbers is waste of time because the only reason why CV19  deaths in SG is low, is because of the extraordinary efforts of the G/MOH,  Doctors, Nurses, everyone ... and the restrictions/measures that were put in place.

The common flu when it first surfaced, killed millions worldwide. Going through past accounts of previous pandemics will reveal that what we are going through today, is not much different. It is a marathon with multiple stages to be conquered. 

If we implement the same measures whenever someone catches the common flu as we do CV19, I am certain the infection and morbidity rates will be much lower than what we see on Singstats.

Conversely, if we compare the CV19 infection/morbidity rates in the US, against SG common flu data (on Singstats), we will conclude that CV19 is indeed more dangerous.

So, unless you believe that Americans are more susceptible to CV19 than Singaporeans, then I am sure you will notice that the differentiating factor in rate of infection and death, is really the CV19 restrictions/measures as well as the medical care that our G/MOH had made available.

[5:15 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. The reason why Singapore has one of the Lowest death rate in the world is because Singapore has the highest vaccination population 86% and 21% booster shot.

2. The reason why we still have double digits death per day is because there are still 5% eligible adults and seniors are unvaccinated.

[5:17 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And i hope gov can come up with more advisories to give booster shots to people who were infected with covid. Because the antibodies wane over time.

[5:18 pm, 17/11/2021] +Cross finger: Completely agree...... Except American probably are more susceptible to dying (rather than catching) because our seniors are fit and health and Americans tend to be fat and not health.

[5:19 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not sure for those infected - should they get a booster shot.

MOH need to advise.

Understand that those infected must also get 1 vaccination shot to get immunity.

But not sure whether booster is needed or not.

[5:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Either that or ....

1. The vaccination is not as effective in protecting (triggering B-cell immunity) in the vulnerable - aged/pre-existing medical conditions/immuno-compromised

2. Low death rate because G/MOH had been making sure we have sufficient ICU/High dependency capacity - by adjusting restrictions to limit infection rate relative to hospital/ICU capacity. The Americans, many of them go from infected, directly to grave due lack of capacity to treat the people.

[5:20 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why gov should provide this advisory quickly.

[5:21 pm, 17/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

For 1., Booster shot will definitely help.

For 2, getting unvaccinated to vaccinate will help.

[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I know friends who got infected and recovered. Fuily vaxxed, no booster yet, no co-morbidites. Flu/fever lasted about a week. HQ/Recovery since young, healthy and relatively mild symptoms.

After PCR confirmed fully recovered, notification sent to them to inform them that they do not need a booster shot for the next 6 months.

[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: definitely

[5:22 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Wow

[5:23 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: I think what gov needs to give is a clear guideline, those who are 2x vac and infected, what is the timeline for them to get booster shot.

[5:24 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: I believe this is already being looked into.

[5:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: I think there had been official G/MOH advisory about this as well, just that it was given less airtime relative to the other announcements... or maybe its because we only want to hear what we want to hear 😂

I think from back in June/July the G/MOH had already categorised those who have recovered from CV19 in the same category as those who had taken the 2 shots of vax.

[5:26 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: But data has changed due to more cases. Now 2 shots not enough already

[5:27 pm, 17/11/2021] +Elena Woo: I am waiting for under 6 mths to 5 yo vac 🤷🏻‍♀️

[5:28 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Probably somewhere next  year

[5:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Its true,, and unfortunately, we will probably continue to uncover new information which will require more adjustments as we gain more knowledge about the virus.

We need to ultimately catch the virus, trigger our own T-cell response, to gain full immunity against it,

Vax only triggers (fast response) B-cell immunity which wanes over time. 

Due to the aggressive nature of the CV19 virus, we need the fast reacting B-cell protection to buy us time while the slower responding T-cell immunity kicks in when we encounter the virus. Eventually, the therapeutic pills will help to further diminish the symptoms when we catch CV19. Gaining full/complete immunity against CV19 is not an overnight exercise unfortunately.

[5:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +BL: Good point

[5:36 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: My friend's 7yo child was infected quite recently. Fortunately the symptoms were relatively mild - flu/moderate fever, loss of smell and taste. Recovery was fast, sense of smell and taste returned in about 5 days and PCR confirmed full recovery 7-10 days. 

HQ/Recovery supplemented with tele-medicine support

[5:37 pm, 17/11/2021] +Rama: Wonderful

[5:38 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: So far no signs of lingering health issues in the 7YO

[5:39 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: Hopefully this would give parents here some measure of comfort. Stay vigilant, but no need to be overly worried.

[5:54 pm, 17/11/2021] +Joseph: The T-cell immunity you develop after you catch CV19 is lifelong. It wanes because there is no need for it to be constantly produced when there is no CV19 virus to ward off. Why we still need a booster vax is (from what I understand as a layperson, not doctor/immuno-specialist) because 

1. B-cell immunity from the vax, reacts faster (then T-cells) to invading pathogens, is more general in nature, and acts the first line of defense.

2. In the case of CV19 vax, the antibody response/count wanes from 6mths onwards. Immunity from vax wanes regardless of which vax it is. The difference is in the time it takes for it to wane.

3. T-cells (triggered when our body encounters the pathogen) is lifelong. Once your body encounters the pathogen, and the antibody to com…

[6:31 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: A Compassionate and Well Thought Process 

Death At Home - Procedures

Firstly, Call 995 or Call 999 to lodge a police report of the situation. 

Ambulance will be deployed to help save or to confirm it is a death. Arrival of Police officers can be ahead of the ambulance or shortly after the ambulance had arrived at the given address. 

NRIC or other form of Identity of the person that called and the deceased will be helpful to the police officer for verification purposes. 

Investigating Officer will arrive after the team of police officers confirmed the case as death. The IO will rule out any unnatural death like murder etc. Once the IO is satisfied that the case is a natural death, the death certificate can be issued by a certified doctor which usually work hand in hand with an undertaker. 

The cost of this death certification is $300 paid on the spot or invoiced into the funeral services Bill. Please note that the medical doctor will only certified THREE CLASSIFICATIONS of death that is STROKE or HEART ATTACK or CANCER. Either one of these three causes are pre existing medical conditions that usually has medical records with hospital or clinic. Family members can provide these medical records will be easier for the issuance of the death certificate. 

Family member designate to proceed to any police station or police post present the deceased IC and the doctor's certificate. A formal death certificate will be issued by the police on duty to the family member.

This certificate of death will be needed for booking of cremation and the purchase of a place to house the ash.  The undertaker will facilitate all these schedules and paperworks.

First Exception, if family members are in sync do not agree to the either one of the classifications. The medical doctor will recommend and family members AGREE for the state to perform an autopsy. The police will then execute this request, the autopsy may take 1 day to complete and thereafter the collection of the deseased by an undertaker.

Second Exception if the deceased is a covid case, the police will undertake the body for autopsy. The handling of covid death case at home or public place or workplace (with or without ID) is different unlike in hospital. The autopsy will not take more than 24 hours before the family designated undertaker collects the body to proceed for the necessary funeral arrangenents. For covid death, the body is DOUBLE SEALED and the casket is SEALED. Three days of mourning is allowed, the cremation time & date will be given priority over other parties.

Third Exception, for covid patient who is  "going to pass on", it is advisable for family members to pick the appropriate Clothings and standby to pass to the nurses. Unless there is exception and grace, the covid death body will be DOUBLE SEALED with bio proof body bags.  Thereon, NO tampering of the body bag is allowed.

[6:53 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:59 pm, 17/11/2021] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2021

To: Distinguished MTF, DMS and All Honorable Members 

"Now $10, soon to be $5, may be $3 or hopefully 'FREE' ?" 

ART Price Variants:

NBC News - - 

Germans pay less than $1 per test. Brits get them free. Why do Americans pay so much more? Because companies can still demand it.

Rep. Kim Schrier, D-Wash., for months has advocated for rapid testing at a lower cost. "In an IDEAL world, a test would either be free or cost less than a dollar so that people could take one a few times a week to every day," 

Consumers elsewhere have much cheaper — or free — options. In Germany, grocery stores sell rapid tests for under $1 a piece. In India, they're about $3.50. The U.K. provides 14 tests PER PERSON free of charge. Canada is doling out free rapid tests to businesses.

In Germany, regulators have given special authorization to DOZENS of antigen tests.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/why-do-covid-rapid-tests-cost-so-much-even-after-n1278934

https://twitter.com/overseasdem/status/1429326478903291914?s=20

Afterwords:

The Necessities and The Economics of ART:

 Let's make ART affordable and accessible!

Assumption - - 

10 kits per household per month.  Each kit cost $5

Estimated Monthly National Consumptions of ART kits = $65 million ($50 x 1.3 million households). 

Projected Annual National Consumptions will likely be $800 million to $1.0 billion. 

(The total cost of National Stadium was $1.87 billion) 

What's the subsidy government will undertake? 

Suggest FREE ART quarterly to all households, 10 kits per household?

Environmental proper, how to dispose these kits and masks? 

Variants of Concern:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-variants-genomically-confirmed-case-numbers/variants-distribution-of-case-data-27-august-2021

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/12/spike-and-nucleocapsid-protein-mutations-in-tanzanian-and-ugandan-strains-of-sars-cov-2-demand-attention/?sh=7a0b04a4489e

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/11/12/spike-and-nucleocapsid-protein-mutations-in-tanzanian-and-ugandan-strains-of-sars-cov-2-demand-attention

                         -- END - -

[7:00 pm, 17/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====