REACH (Telegram) 50 - What are your views on Minister’s plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system?
(SK)
08 Jan 2025 (10am - 7pm)
REACH (Telegram)
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:13 AM]
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REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:16 AM]
π’ Topic π’
Job seekers and employees will have greater protection against discrimination on grounds like age and nationality through a proposed law to ensure fairness in the workplace, Manpower Minister Dr Tan See Leng told Parliament on Jan 7.
At the same time, the Workplace Fairness Legislation (WFL) will retain the flexibility for employers to hire workers based on skills that support their business needs, he added.
π¬ What are your thoughts on the Workplace Fairness Bill? Why more could be done to strengthen protection against workplace discrimination?
Dr Tan said that while Ministry of Manpower (MOM) surveys have shown declining workplace discrimination over the years, this should not be taken for granted. “This Workplace Fairness Bill has therefore been designed to improve protections against workplace discrimination, while preserving our fair and harmonious workplace norms.”
This is the first of two Bills on workplace fairness. A second Bill on how private employment claims can be made for workplace discrimination will be tabled later on. If passed, the legislation will be implemented sometime in 2026 or 2027.
MPs spoke in favour of a workplace anti-discrimination law and debated issues such as the scope of the bill, the need to tackle workplace ageism, how the bill puts local first and support for smaller firms to comply with the legislation.
π Why the bill does not cover all discrimination
For now, the Bill covers five categories of protected characteristics where there is “broad societal consensus”, said Dr Tan. Together, they account for more than 95 per cent of discrimination complaints received by the Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices (TAFEP) and MOM, he said.
These include age and nationality – the top two causes of discrimination reported. A third category includes sex, marital status, pregnancy and caregiving responsibilities; the fourth covers the characteristics of race, religion and language ability; and the last encompasses disabilities and mental health conditions.
MP Ms Denise Phua called for the broadening of the definition of disability in the Bill, which now covers autism, intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities and sensory disabilities. This excludes individuals with learning disabilities like dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, and conditions like cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis, she said.
MP Mr Louis Chua criticised the Bill for limiting legislation to only certain characteristics.
“How can we confidently say that workplace discrimination of any form should not be tolerated, but yet some forms of discrimination are legal while others are not?” he asked, highlighting some types of discrimination that will not be covered, such as that based on physical medical conditions.
Mr Patrick Tay, who is the assistant secretary-general of the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC), said outsourced workers and freelancers, including platform workers, may be an underserved segment of workers.
Mr Tay said the labour movement believes that no form of discrimination should be tolerated in the workplace. Although sexual orientation and gender identity or expression are not explicitly covered, any employer who runs afoul of the Tripartite Guidelines on Fair Employment Practices (TGFEP) should be investigated and can have enforcement actions taken against them, he said.
π Concerns over economic impact of ageism
In the debate, Mr Heng Chee How, who is NTUC deputy secretary-general, also emphasised the economic importance of leveraging the experience of older workers amid a shrinking labour force.
He called for employers to be more vigilant against ageist bias and other barriers that might affect older job seekers and workers.
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:16 AM]
π Putting locals first
Foreigners are “critical complementary components” in many sectors of Singapore’s economy, and Workers’ Party (WP) chief and Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said the Bill correctly offers wide and significant protections to them, but is clear that employers should aim to recruit locals first.
Mr Singh said employers should not see this legislation as just an administrative process, or even as a burden. “It is far more important than that,” he said. “I would even go so far as to say that it is a critical piece of legislation with a view towards nation-building in the years to come, where many of our challenges will be domestic.”
π Help for small companies to comply
To help firms ease into the new requirements, small firms with fewer than 25 employees will be given more time to build up their capabilities before they need to comply with them. This will be reviewed five years after the law is implemented.
Dr Tan has said that MOM is working on a tripartite advisory for reasonable accommodations to raise awareness and provide practical guidance to employers.
He emphasised that workplace fairness legislation is not a “panacea”, but an “additional layer of protection” against frequently encountered forms of workplace discrimination.
“It is a measured approach that seeks to preserve our current workplace norms, and guard against divisions in our workplaces and society,” he said.
π https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/workplace-fairness-bill-legislation-platform-workers-4843371
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/mps-raise-concerns-over-indirect-discrimination-ageism-during-debate-on-workplace-fairness-bill
----
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:24 AM]
[ Poll : 1) Do you think the Workplace Fairness Bill adequately addresses workplace discrimination? Please share your reasons in the chats! ]
- Yes
- No
- Neutral
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:24 AM]
[ Poll : 2) Which of the five categories of protected characteristics outlined in the Bill are you most concerned about? Please share your reasons in the chats! ]
- Age discrimination
- Nationality
- Sex, marital status, pregnancy and caregiving responsibilities
- Race, religion and language ability
- Disability and mental health conditions
G, [8/1/2025 11:33 AM]
Received hardcopy letter for CDC voucher..
In this day and age, is there still a need for hardcopy?
If the letters cost 51 cents to mail and there are 1.3 million average households claiming CDC; that’s $663,000 on postal costs alone
There's still costs for customisation for these letters with names and address, cost of printing, cost of paper, cost of envelopes etc.
Mailing hardcopy notifications for govt handouts still the best use of taxpayer money?
Don't the PA already have records on which households would more likely require hardcopy mail and so just send hardcopy mails to those households instead?
G, [8/1/2025 11:37 AM]
What's the govt's posture on hiring older workers?
I've heard numerous anecdotes of workers from a certain age group being rejected or glossed over for positions despite possessing the necessary qualifications and experience
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 11:37 AM]
On mental health, some people may be suffering from mental issues that are not visible or classified under DSM-5, how do the government ensure that healthy mental health in the workplace should be protected ?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 11:43 AM]
1. Age discrimination for jobs is indeed an issue for those 50 years and above.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 11:48 AM]
2. Despite government persistent good effort to formulate policies to tackle age discrimination - it is still happening in various disguise forms that discriminate mature workers in getting jobs or terminate older workers from their jobs.
3. Or in a better place, older workers are make to take up contract job, demotion with lesser pay.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 11:54 AM]
3. Hence, I always encourage young workers to save half or at least 1/3 of their income monthly to safeguard themselves against mid career crisis and retirement by investing prudently in passive income the moment they start work.
4. This is to ensure that if mid career crisis hit, they will have at least passive income to tie them through their old age.
Gabriel, [8/1/2025 12:07 PM]
For those who are unfamiliar with the state of current affairs on this matter, can you highlight what the government's persistently "good" effort on policies to tackle age discrimination are?
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:08 PM]
There are still young people who cannot save at least 1/2 or 1/3 of their income after paying for daily necessities, then what can be done to help them ?
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:10 PM]
But how would we determine if is a valid 'daily necessities'?
E.g. aircon might be critical for some, not for others. Or even cars
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:11 PM]
I am talking about necessary for survival, like shelter, food, public transport etc.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:11 PM]
I would suggest ways for them to help themselves. Reskilling or upgrade comes to my mind.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:12 PM]
As i said 'necessary' is not a common understanding for all.
Aircon compulsory?
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:13 PM]
I already said survival, as in if it is not present the person will not even be able to survive.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:13 PM]
Eg. Formulating policies such as tgfep - tripartite guidelines for fair employment.
Mom and union investigating and arbitrating any reported job discrimination grievances cases.
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:15 PM]
“Necessary” may not be a common understanding, but it is a fact that humans cannot even survive without some basic necessities, it is not up to interpretation.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:17 PM]
1. Well during my time, my starting salary is $1,600, I can still set aside 1/3 the moment I received my pay and put into the saving account vouching not to touch them.
2. As I got increase salaries and promoted along the years, I can set aside half the salary for savings.
3. When sufficient amount is set aside, can start investing the passive income.
4. It all depends on the determination and will of each individual - what is deem necessary expenses and what is extravagant.
5. Once a person set aside the savings and vouch not to touch them, you will always try to spend within what you have - and won't indulge in extravagant stuff.
6. People must have the "crisis mindset" - always prepared for rainy days or crisis hit.
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:17 PM]
Now the times is a different story, wages are not keeping up with inflation, despite what the statistics and numbers indicate.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:18 PM]
I have seen people doing it, and it can be done.
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 12:20 PM]
But still poverty, income inequality is a structural and institutional thing, which means there will forever be people that are still disadvantaged unless we restructure whole of society.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:23 PM]
1 piece of bread ok for some, other people still hungry. What's 'necessary for survival '?
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:23 PM]
Totally agree, it is dependent on what the worker is willing to sacrifice. Time, money, cigarettes, health etc
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:24 PM]
Eg. Of extravagant, every year go tour.
Eat must eat "atas food".
Travel take grabs or taxis or own cars instead of public transport.
Buy goods must buy designer goods.
At home turn on Aircon instead of high velocity fans.
Etc. (sedekit sedekit, lama lama banyak bukit).
If can cut down all these extravagant expenses and choose cheaper alternatives, sure can save alot and sufficient to accumulate passive income for mid career crisis and retirement.
Complemented by CPF Life.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:27 PM]
Back to the original topic, the current discrimination laws somewhat sufficient. But there are times where bias needs to exist?
Language requirement when most clients are malay speaking (business facilitation to close deals). Overweight workers as doctors (not having good impression to customers) etc
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:29 PM]
Why do I suggest this?
Because job discrimination against aged happens in smes, MNCs and even glcs.
I will not suggest civil service are doing it, but people do get move around - but not outright termination come 50 years and above.
G, [8/1/2025 12:35 PM]
Come I clap for you π
For showcasing your personal achievements here
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:36 PM]
Better than always complaining and crying or blaming the government - instead of solving own problem.
G, [8/1/2025 12:36 PM]
Agree.. besides the usual nationality, age etc what's "discrimination" anyway?
Caleb, [8/1/2025 12:37 PM]
Can gov notify by singpass app. If nv ready by 1 week then send hardcopy.
G, [8/1/2025 12:40 PM]
I remember your claim that on your 1 single income you could afford to pay off a 5 room HDB flat
So.. back then $1,600 very good ah?
Still claim you set aside 1/3.. means $1,100 can afford to live and pay off 5 room flat HDB mortgage?
Such was the cost of living back then!
What's the equivalent of $1,600 today? Can that person still set aside 1/3 of the equivalent income afford a 5 room HDB flat and maintain a household living expense just on that 1 income?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:41 PM]
Can!
G, [8/1/2025 12:41 PM]
Show the sums please
On the equivalent of $1,600 salary today. Set aside 1/3 for savings. Afford 5 room HDB mortgage and household living expense. Use 1 income only
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:43 PM]
No need to show to you.
Because all my close circle younger folks already doing it.
You solve your own problem.
In the past, time and again compute to prove you wrong.
Shouldn't spoonfeed you anymore.
G, [8/1/2025 12:45 PM]
You go on a rant about self discipline etc. then boast about your own discipline and achievements..
And claim your close circle younger folks already doing it..
Then when ask for calcs to back up your claim, u shy away..
Then you tell people to be disciplined for what? Not everyone is as disciplined and as knowledgeable as you claim yourself to be
So if you could show your calculations, wouldn't that be helpful for others to emulate your disciplined ways?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 12:47 PM]
It does make a difference between a problem solver versus a complainer.
Problem solvers are resourceful to think out of the box to fix their own problem.
Complainers always complain and blame others, blame government.
Hence problem solvers usually do well in their careers and don't pose a problem to the society and don't always complain against the government.
Luckily all my close circles are problem solvers and not complainers.
G, [8/1/2025 12:49 PM]
Yes. You are a problem solver.
You claim to solve something because you are disciplined
But when asked how, you say "you solve you own problems" and say other people complainers
Ok π
Your claims are doubtful at best
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 1:11 PM]
Dear Contributors,
Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion.
It is everyone’s responsibility to make this online space a safe and conducive one for all contributors to share your views and feedback on national issues.
Please be reminded of the Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-telegram-terms
Thank you.
Megan
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:17 PM]
"Former manager becomes a hawker after getting retrenched, now selling S$2 laksa in Chinatown.
“I became a hawker after I gave up trying to look for a job. I thought I could withdraw my CPF at 55 [to live on], but I was only 50 when I got retrenched. No choice. I need money to survive,” said Bobby Lee."
https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/dining/asian-makanstall-chinatown-2-laksa-434226#:~:text=Former%20manager%20becomes,said%20Bobby%20Lee.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:18 PM]
An example of problem solver.
Retrench at 50 years old, turn crisis into opportunity.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]
Tbh when you are working and upgrading yourself you hardly save 1/3 of salary
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]
Need to be realistic
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]
A short courses easily cost a few hundred
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:25 PM]
Can use skill future?
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:25 PM]
And the short course may not be immediate useful or actually useful
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:26 PM]
For people age 25 above
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:26 PM]
People below 25, how to save 1/3
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:28 PM]
After grad does not equivalent you know how to apply the skills
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:29 PM]
Especially guys went through army which let them not have a chance to apply the skills for 2 years before entering industry
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:30 PM]
Give you an example, an average graduates starting salary is $5,500 for a computer science graduates.
20% CPF take home pay $4,400.
Set aside 1/3 = $1,466.
Still got $2,933 for expenses.
For fresh graduates, you stay with your parents, so more than enough to spend.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:30 PM]
That is average uni grads. For poly grads?
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:31 PM]
2k-2.5k?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:31 PM]
A small family 4 person expenses $4,000 per month can survive relatively well.
One person $2,933 expenses can live very well.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:32 PM]
A bit tough.
But I will still set aside $800 as savings and spend the rest within my means.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:33 PM]
Remember you still got GST vouchers, CDC vouchers, u-save etc..
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:33 PM]
When I search for work a poly grad is 1.8k-2.5k before cpf
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:34 PM]
Try to upgrade to university degree.
Pay is higher.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:34 PM]
So I would also want to upgrade myself,so attending courses will cost thousands
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]
Try to get work experience while graduating from polytechnic.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]
No money go private
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]
For the time being, tighten the belt.
Once graduate, you can recover and do better.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:37 PM]
I have a younger folk that come under this path.
He is graduating from university this year and I believe he will be able to get a better pay.
Hanny, [8/1/2025 1:39 PM]
Certain group of people prefer hard copy
G, [8/1/2025 1:46 PM]
Yup. It should be this way.. and not spam everyone and waste taxpayer money.
Only give hardcopy to those who require. And PA should already have the relevant data for who requires hardcopy
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 1:51 PM]
I don't think there is a common form across all agencies that states hard/soft copy preferences.
Then we need to decide default is hard or soft copy. Some would say aging population should default as hardcopy?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:51 PM]
Eg. $800 saving per month, include 13 months bonus, you will get $10,400 a year set aside for passive income investment.
Take up a 25 to 30 years saving endowment insurance plan that provide 4% to 6% interest income (come with guarantee and non-guarantee portion).
You can earn up to $18,720 interest at the end of maturity.
So if you work from 25 years old to 50 years old, and invest likewise every year, you can earn 6 figures interest income.
Also your salary will increase and your passive income set aside for prudent investment will grow.
So your retirement will be safeguarded (not even including your CPF Life).
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 1:52 PM]
Anyway, this hard or soft copy is not relevant to today's topic. I would say to bring it up another time
Daniel, [8/1/2025 1:52 PM]
This seems hardly relevant to the topic at hand.
Joomua Tng, [8/1/2025 1:55 PM]
this is an optimistic assumption and projection, mostly for above average income to higher income portion of population.
π, [8/1/2025 1:57 PM]
Forum: Get rid of smoking corners at coffee shops whose leases are expiring | The Straits Times
https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-get-rid-of-smoking-corners-at-coffee-shops-whose-leases-are-expiring
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 1:58 PM]
Agree that this will only apply to middle high to higher income folks.
But lower income folks will still struggle.
π, [8/1/2025 1:58 PM]
We should really get rid of cigarette smoking at coffee shops. It has been years since initially rolled out in 2017. And families do have to eat at coffee shops from time to time with children breathing in second hand smoke.
Kim Heok Lim, [8/1/2025 1:59 PM]
Non-smokers hate smokers. Smokers complain insufficient areas to smoke after paying tobacco taxes
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:00 PM]
Btw this is not a projection.
Because people do set aside savings for such purpose and do in fact reap the benefits from such approach - especially among some older folks.
I am just sharing such good practices so that more people can adopt such practices and don't get caught in their mid career crisis.
Because tech disruption and career disruption will happen more frequently - looking at the horizon of more uncertainties in a more adverse geopolitical climate.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:09 PM]
And job discrimination against aged does occur in various disguise forms.
Though government do put in safeguard and guidelines to curb such aged job discrimination - business will always have ways to circumvent it.
Hence for individuals to cushion themselves against such mid career crisis - individuals will need to plan for themselves and their families not to be caught when it comes - because I witnessed this quite a number of cases throughout my lifetimes.
As problem solvers, we need to plan ahead for such rainy days - and not to be caught by surprises which I feel will occur more often with greater challenges ahead.
π, [8/1/2025 2:12 PM]
Assumption. I am referring to cigarette smoking and inconsiderateness in exposing young children to second hand cigarettes smoke.
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 2:20 PM]
Back to the topic, individuals may have the responsibility to try to safeguard themselves from any form of discrimination, but that does not change the reality that discrimination of many forms is a structural and institutional issue, so what plans does the government have to educate society on discrimination so that society can shift to reduce stigma and be more accepting of others ?
G, [8/1/2025 2:24 PM]
π govt also needs to explain their hiring practices. Why people of older age groups get rejected for jobs which they are adequately qualified for, and they have the relevant experience and expertise
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:26 PM]
1. Whether business continue to make profit - and not think of ways to cut cost to remain afloat or maximizing their profits as their core principle - sacrificing the higher pay older folks who stay loyal to the companies.
2. Whether bosses and top management has a good heart and good conscience - treating every workers including their older folks like a family members instead of workers.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:29 PM]
1. During the earlier years, bosses treat all their workers especially older workers like their family members that go through thick and thin with the companies.
2. But with modern western mindset - everything is profit versus cost - even very profitable companies will look at high cost workers to chop.
Older workers fit this bill, and often got chop to maximize their profits and show shareholders how well they perform every year.
Steven Ong, [8/1/2025 2:33 PM]
All kinds of discrimination should be considered and enforcement need to send strong signals to curb unhealthy practices. Everyone should be given equal opportunity in this day and age if he/she willing to learn and contribute to the organisation and society-at-large. Whisperblowing should be highly encouraged to ensure operations can be audited and enforcement can be executed.
G, [8/1/2025 2:36 PM]
Hooliganism amongst political parties. Male PAP member/supporter allegedly harassing female PSP volunteer
https://mothership.sg/2025/01/pap-psp-harassment-bukit-gombak/
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:40 PM]
1. So in my opinion, as long as human heart and mindset don't change, regardless of how much effort put in by government to curb job discrimination - business still have a way to circumvent it.
2. Changing the heart and mindset will be more effective than focusing on policies alone.
Because no amount of policies or legislation can monitor or change a business conduct, if people's minds and heart don't change.
(ι³ε₯ι΄θΏ will be the outcome.) (Disguise form of conforming, but hidden ways of discriminating acts to avoid penalty).
3. As long as profit maximization and KPI remain the core principle for top management or bosses - job discrimination cannot be eradicated.
4. It begins with the bosses and top management heart and mind.
（θ¦ιη΅，θ¦θ½¬ε - δ»“εΏ”εΌε§）.
G, [8/1/2025 2:50 PM]
“Thus far, we have not uncovered any known threat actors based on the IP addresses that were used to make the people search queries between Dec 9 and 13.”
"However, the authorities are unable to identify the exact number of NRIC numbers disclosed as the Bizfile portal is not configured to track individual queries, Ms Indranee said in a ministerial statement delivered in response to a spate of parliamentary questions over the recent saga."
"The minister also noted that a security feature designed to distinguish between human users and computer bots in the portal’s search function “was not working as intended”, following a security review by ACRA and GovTech."
"More than 500,000 searches were made on a government business filing website over five days in December after news emerged that people's names and full National Registration Identity Card (NRIC) numbers could be found.
This was much higher than the usual 2,000 to 3,000 daily queries made on the Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority’s (ACRA) Bizfile website, said Second Minister for Finance Indranee Rajah in parliament on Wednesday (Jan 8)."
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/more-500000-searches-acra-bizfile-portal-dec-9-13-nric-indranee-4844871
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 2:50 PM]
1. Having say so, I am not suggesting compromising profit of companies and focus on charity even though older workers are not performing.
2. I am saying older workers could cost more but still productive and contributing very well to the companies.
3. Effort should be make by bosses and top management on how to make use of older workers knowledge and skillsets and a good mix with younger workers to grow the business and make higher profit for the companies.
3. Instead of focusing on the age of the workers in every yearly appraisal exercise to chop higher pay older workers.
4. A company that look after their workers like a family members instead of a dispensable pawn - will instill high morale and motivated workforce that can bring greater height to the companies.
5. This is the philosophy that I learn from my earlier elderly folks who are bosses and my relatives who are running listed companies.
6. Unfortunately, I see less of such philosophy in current corporate with western mindset of hire and fire, profit maximization at all cost.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:01 PM]
7. And companies that adopt the mindset of treating every of their workers including older workers as a family members still make very good profit and business are expanding and growing very well - due to a group of highly motivated and loyal workers. And these corporates are paying good dividends year after year to shareholders.
8. They are not losing out to corporates that adopt hire and fire, profit maximization, age discrimination against workers.
9. In fact I observed workers in these companies are happier workers, conduct themselves in a more friendly and cooperative work environment and are less likely to engage in toxic office politics for survival.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:03 PM]
I not totally agree with keeping older/senior workers at all cost. What would be the career progression for staff that join later, e.g. younger or change companies.
There's only a set number of manager positions, and company budget. Should the junior staff be asked to wait and sacrificed?
Instead of 'discrimination', base compensation and promotion on performance. I would say usually those who are sick or slower at work would negative impact their work performance.
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:04 PM]
An extreme case of keeping senior staff at all costs would be past japan economy, whereby junior staff wages are depressed because they cannot retrench senior staff
Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:06 PM]
On other hand, another extreme would be china's 'forced' retirement when reach 55. Company would be encouraged to let senior staff go at that age.
Loss of good and experienced employees there
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:06 PM]
Older workers will still have to produce good performance.
Same as younger workers.
But age should not be the determination for discrimination.
If older and younger workers cannot perform, they will get poor appraisal and if cannot improve, they cannot stay.
But what happens if older workers perform consistently well, but slated to get terminated because of his age?
The justification is, I can hire 2 to 3 young workers with your pay.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:07 PM]
Eg. A mature worker win 2 awards for good performance.
Next year when he reached 55 years old, he was terminated.
How to account for such termination other than age discrimination?
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:17 PM]
There are creative ways to let younger workers move up and still keep good and experience older workers.
Eg. Promote younger workers to become managers.
Transform mature workers to be consultants, or mentors or advisors.
Or assign to handle ad-hoc projects that come on board.
See problem solvers can solve seemingly unsolvable issues.
Younger managers can bring new mindsets to management.
Older experience workers will still be able to keep a steady pair of hands to the business operations and can solve difficult business problems with their experience.
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 3:23 PM]
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/acra-bizfile-nric-numbers-unmasked-josephine-teo-mddi-4844761
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:31 PM]
1. That's, younger workers can move up vertically, promoted to manager and take over the roles of older managers.
2. Older managers can move horizontally, doing the work of mentors, consultants, advisors, or handling ad-hoc projects.
3. Thinking aloud, young CEO can focus on transforming eg. A co-op into a full fledged corporate through merger or organic growth through new management.
4. Older managers can move horizontally to run a carve out segments (eg. A SBU) to continue to run as co-op.
5. This will vertically and horizontally grow a company rather than chop the old management and replace a new one with total different mindset (and throw out a viable existing co-op business that is still profitable run by the older managers).
For example
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 3:34 PM]
The synergy of this hybrid young + old management is
1 + 1 = 3.
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 4:18 PM]
π’ Topic π’
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 4:51 PM]
θ―εΏδΌδΈ。(Corporate with conscience).
δΊΊζ ε³。(Human touch).
Where got job discrimination?
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 5:33 PM]
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/review-of-nric-unmasking-incident-likely-completed-in-feb-2025-findings-to-be-made-public
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:21 PM]
Skills atrophy, obsolescence likely behind decline in literacy proficiency among older adults in Singapore: Chan Chun Sing - CNA.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/adult-literacy-decline-older-singapore-adults-oecd-new-skills-education-4844781
It is necessary to continuously upskill and reskill throughout life, beyond the first 15 years of formal education, says Education Minister Chan Chun Sing.
πΉ πππ° ππ°ππ ππ§π , [8/1/2025 6:24 PM]
I am not against old people, but in SG, generally the mindset of old people are that I am older thus I am more experienced in life, so why should I listen to the younger ones, which make them demand respect and become a bit closed-minded and not as willing to learn new skills to train their brain and keep their minds healthy etc.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:26 PM]
This one need to harmonize the younger ones and the older ones.
This is the most widely cited issue on young people working with older people.
Harmonizing both viewpoints are required with good listening skills.
Keeping an open mind is important.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:29 PM]
Most important, focus on the issues and not the person.
1. Listen to the viewpoints express by both group of people.
2. Analyse whether the viewpoints can solve work problems.
3. Then adopt the views to solve work problems regardless of whether it come from older or younger workers to get the job done.
4. These apply to all types of workers whether young or old.
5. Hence there will be more harmonizing and less frictions.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:38 PM]
A bit surprise by the OECD's report that English literacy skills can degrade with age.
1. I thought I can accept - as a worker enter the job market, technologies advance will cause older workers to be less relevance in new tech and hence tech obsolescence can set in.
Hence skill upgrade and reskill become necessary to remain relevant.
2. But English literacy degradation come as a surprise to me - because I thought many years of communication at work in English and report writing - should make older workers English literacy better due to constant practice.
But causing older worker to degrade in English literacy come as a surprise to me as it defy logic.
I thought it doesn't make sense.
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:44 PM]
All the more, OECD make up of many non-English speaking countries like Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy, France etc.
How does Singapore that uses English language as its working language be worst off than some non-English speaking countries?
I can understand if OECD countries like UK, US, Australia Canada, New Zealand can have higher English literacy than Singapore.
But not those non-English speaking countries.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:44 PM]
Not really. In workplace especially in lower management people tend to use broken English and mother tongue
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:45 PM]
In army this is a very good example
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 6:46 PM]
Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:46 PM]
Oh is it?
Maybe those white collar workers use more proficient english than Singlish.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:47 PM]
Yeah. But very small portion are actually the true white collar
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:49 PM]
If the company have hired a lot of china workers people tend to use Chinese to communicate. If your profession is a doctor you don't expect to speak high level of English to your patients. If not they don't understand.
Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:50 PM]
Unless your profession requires you to speak standard english such as lawyer
LCL (Danny εΏ), [8/1/2025 6:51 PM]
Depends on industries than.
RY, [8/1/2025 6:55 PM]
For age discrimination, I think our govt sector shd be leading as the model - in my opinion
RY, [8/1/2025 6:57 PM]
It is quite certain that there is age discrimination in workplace
As the HR will vet thru the resume most time and look at the age 1st in any job appln
REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 6:59 PM]
Dear Contributors
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
====
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