REACH (Telegram) 9 -  What are your thoughts on the increase in claims filed by employees? How else can the Government and various stakeholders step in to ease the process of settling work-related claims?

(SK)

05 Aug 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 9:45 AM]

Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

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The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 10:02 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

More local and foreign employees filed employment claims against their employers with the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) and Tripartite Alliance for Dispute Management (TADM) in 2023 amid economic headwinds, according to a joint annual employment standards report released on Aug 2.

A total of 9,397 employment claims and appeals were lodged with MOM and TADM in 2023. About 86 per cent of the cases were salary claims and most of the rest were claims for wrongful dismissals. Locals accounted for almost half of the claims and appeals, while the remainder were lodged by foreigners.

💬 What are your thoughts on the increase in claims filed by employees? How else can the Government and various stakeholders step in to ease the process of settling work-related claims?

The increase in cases was driven by a higher number of salary claims involving foreign employees in the construction sector, especially those who had worked in firms facing business failures, financial difficulties or undergoing liquidation, said MOM and TADM. About 40 per cent of salary claims from local employees in 2023 were lodged by managers and executives working in wholesale and retail trade, food and beverage services, and information and communications sectors. 

📌  More wrongful dismissals took longer to settle

There was 0.32 case per 1,000 employees in 2023, slightly higher than the 0.26 in 2022. MOM and TADM said that 70 per cent of the claims in 2023 were resolved at TADM, while the remaining ones were referred to the Employment Claims Tribunal (ECT) for adjudication, similar to 2022.

Because of more wrongful dismissal claims, the total payment by employers to employees amounted to about $1.72 million, higher than the approximately $1.29 million paid out in 2022.

📌  Importance of multi-stakeholder efforts in sanctioning errant employers and enhancing employee rights

The joint report by MOM and TADM detailed how Empower, a new online platform TADM rolled out in August 2023, could make settling claims easier. 

Empower lets employers and employees privately negotiate claims online first, and then undergo virtual mediation if needed, aided by automated tools like a chatbot and calculators. 

Despite facing some setbacks along the way, Chloe (pseudonym), a former account support executive who filed a claim for the salary she was owed with TADM, found the platform helpful when her TADM mediator stepped in to point out that her employer's thinking was wrong - which eventually led to their acceptance and her successful claim.

👉🏻 https://str.sg/cQ4D

👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/salary-and-wrongful-dismissal-claims-filed-increase-third-consecutive-year-4523116

-----

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 11:02 AM]

[ Poll : 1. I believe that the Tripartite Alliance for Dispute Management and the Empower online platform help to safeguard employee rights. ]

- Agree

- Disagree (please share your views in the chats below)

- Didn't know about them

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 11:02 AM]

[ Poll : 2. What are some concerns that you may have regarding filing employment claims? ]

- Unclear claim processes

- Employers who refuse to make full payment despite having the means to do so

- Nil, as I am confident in the rollout of such initiatives.

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 12:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 12:09 PM]

📢 Income-Allianz deal: NTUC Enterprise, Income rebut Tan Suee Chieh's open letter, say 'unfair' aspersions cast

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-deal-ntuc-enterprise-joint-statement-former-ceo-tan-suee-chieh-4525766?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_05082024_cna

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:15 PM]

1. Have not used the TADM platform - unable to comment how useful the platform is.

2. But wonder is the job market that bad?

3. In my private chatgroups, didn't heard of any people having problems with jobs.

4. All gainfully employed.

5. Economy seems to be doing well.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:16 PM]

Actually, the market is quite slow… many have difficulties finding jobs (maybe only my own contacts?)

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:17 PM]

Oh is it?

It don't seems to be the case in my circles.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:18 PM]

Maybe we just happen to belong to two different sides of the same coin… most of my contacts have difficulties job hunting

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:19 PM]

Oh bad to hear this.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:19 PM]

Even my friends from recruitment agencies commented that the market is slow even for the healthcare sector

John Yong, [5/8/2024 12:20 PM]

Personally, I am in contact with 3 acquaintances who are out of job and searching. One was retrenched from tech recently... One other is searching and doing gig part-time at the moment...

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:20 PM]

I see.

Maybe the government can breakdown the industry sectors for job roles.

Then a better picture of the job market can emerge.

John Yong, [5/8/2024 12:21 PM]

I guess what we can do is to try to support and encourage those around us, who happen to be searching for jobs... 🙏

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:21 PM]

Even the F&B and cleaning sector are not really recruiting as aggressively as before…

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:22 PM]

Maybe can try registering with e2i and NTUC recruitment centre.

They will be able to help.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:23 PM]

You mean WSG? They outsourced this part to an external company. Speaking from personal experience, I vomit blood working with this external agency.

John Yong, [5/8/2024 12:24 PM]

Good point... I should try to put together some suggestions for them to check out too... 🙏

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:24 PM]

I believe the government agency is WSG?

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:24 PM]

I mean e2i and NTUC recruitment centre directly.

They are government or quasi government job centre.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:25 PM]

These two agencies are more interested in selling their training programs than anything else

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:26 PM]

They are more of a “training” center than an employment assistance association.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:26 PM]

Oh is it?

Last time if I understand, those career coach have a whole list of jobs with them.

Those who are registered with the career coach are invited for interview with this companies.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:27 PM]

I was from HR. I have worked with and in almost every government agencies. 😅

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:27 PM]

Must register with a career coach.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:28 PM]

Yup. Most of the time, these career coaches are following an SOP that is outdated and not really market savvy about what’s going on in the real market.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:28 PM]

I think hr could be liaising with the program side.

Those people who are seeking jobs, should register and ask for a career coach.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:29 PM]

Haha… that’s me too… lol… so I know both sides.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:29 PM]

I think e2i also have train and placement scheme.

Whereby people are trained and then place in participants organisation.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:30 PM]

Speaking from personal experience as someone who is now with a so-called career coach who is a young chap in his early 30s and blindly following the SOP which doesn’t work.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:31 PM]

Hmm...

Well then I can't comment.

Because I no longer get in touch with e2i now.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:32 PM]

This so-called career coach asked you not to apply jobs through Jobs-street but only through LINKEDIN when in reality most companies don’t really pay to advertise on LINKEDIN because it’s too expensive. JobStreet is actually cheaper to advertise in.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:33 PM]

How about mom job portal.

There should be alot of job listings there.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:33 PM]

Then even for PMET who have more than 25 years of experience in multiple industries and agencies, this career coach insisted that your CV cannot be more than 2 pages. How is this practical?

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:34 PM]

Summarise them in concise form.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:35 PM]

MyCareersFuture Singapore | Find jobs in Singapore that match your skills

https://www.mycareersfuture.gov.sg/

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:35 PM]

Most companies use this portal to advertise so that they can use the advertisement to apply for the work permit for their foreign hires.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:37 PM]

I did a job search on IT.

Quite a number of jobs in IT.

But of course whether interview will be granted or not is another problem.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:38 PM]

This career coach also insisted on using font size 10. Most hiring managers that I had served in the past would reject any CVs that have font size smaller than 11 as they cannot see and get frustrated when expected to expand the text size on their laptop

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:39 PM]

So what I am saying is that whatever the career coach had proposed was actually suicidal if the person was serious about finding a job.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:40 PM]

Another avenue is through career job fair occasionally organise by WSG or universities.

That one is a sure interview.

But whether get the job or not will depend on the interview.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:41 PM]

I happen to walk past a CC.

It say got rotational job fair carried out for various job roles for various industry sectors.

Should look out for such activities.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:42 PM]

To be honest, these suggestions are suitable for those in their 30s and probably have no issues finding jobs. 

For my circle, I am talking about those who are more senior. Once we hit 50, chances of finding employment are greatly diminished.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:42 PM]

Nowadays, cannot just send out resumes to various organisations and wait for calls from the organisations.

Most of the time will be nil response - because many organisations use software or AI to filter off resumes that don't match certain resume formats.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:45 PM]

50 and above are the toughest groups to get jobs.

These one need dedicated and special help from the government.

The highest chances of success is only if willing organisations participate in a government placement job program or train and placement program.

Job seekers also must be willing to drop salary expectations and lower job roles.

Miku 👿, [5/8/2024 12:45 PM]

Have we tabulated exactly how many companies are using software or AI to filter resumes? Because ALL of the companies I have encountered or worked in are not using any software as their management finds it an unnecessary high cost to procure.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:46 PM]

Also must be willing to accept contract jobs.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:46 PM]

Many MNCs or big organisations use such software or AI.

Not sure for SMEs.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:48 PM]

And e2i and NTUC recruitment centre will teach all people applying for jobs to craft out resumes that can fit the software or AI demands.

Only then got chance for interview.

Else all resumes not meeting the resume format will be filter out.

No chance to get an interview.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 12:48 PM]

Career future not useful?

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:49 PM]

I don't think so.

Understand the job placement % quite high based on past records.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:50 PM]

Written Answer by Mrs Josephine Teo Minister of Manpower to Parliamentary Question on proportion of jobseekers placed into jobs by WSG and e2i

https://www.mom.gov.sg/newsroom/parliament-questions-and-replies/2018/0709-written-answer-by-mrs-josephine-teo-minister-of-manpower-to-parliamentary-question-on-proportion-of-jobseekers-placed-into-jobs-by-wsg-and-e2i

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:50 PM]

70.5% placement.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:51 PM]

Oh that's 2017 statistics.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 12:51 PM]

But that's before COVID

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:51 PM]

Cannot find the latest.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:51 PM]

More than 46,000 workers received job placement assistance from NTUC's e2i since start of COVID-19 pandemic - CNA

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ntuc-covid-19-pandemic-46000-workers-received-job-placement-assistance-e2i-2484331

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:52 PM]

Place and Train without Conversion Programme | NTUC's e2i

https://www.e2i.com.sg/businesses/training/place-and-train-without-conversion/

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:52 PM]

0219 Jobs Situation Report - 18th Edition

https://www.mom.gov.sg/newsroom/press-releases/2021/0219-jobs-situation-report---18th-edition

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:53 PM]

This is 2021.

Cannot find the 2023 and 2024.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 12:55 PM]

I feel that 2023 is really the benchmark because we somehow recover our routine pattern and things has changed

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:55 PM]

Even my younger folks get resume format from me - when they apply for internship and jobs during their universities and after graduation.

They are asked for interview and subsequently get jobs in big organisations.

Else their resume will be filter off by the software or AI.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 12:56 PM]

In 2019-2022 we technically in COVID period and most companies in wfh and everyone somehow got stagnant

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 12:57 PM]

[ Poll : 1. I believe that the Tripartite Alliance for Dispute Management and the Empower online platform help to safeguard employee rights. ]

- Agree

- Disagree (please share your views in the chats below)

- Didn't know about them

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 12:57 PM]

[ Poll : 2. What are some concerns that you may have regarding filing employment claims? ]

- Unclear claim processes

- Employers who refuse to make full payment despite having the means to do so

- Nil, as I am confident in the rollout of such initiatives.

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 12:57 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:58 PM]

Hmm...

That's true.

But I cannot find latest statistics on jobs - notably 2023 and 2024.

Probably haven't compile yet.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 12:58 PM]

I cannot vote more than 1

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 12:59 PM]

Today 34 votes.

Very high participation rate.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:13 PM]

1. Last time in my previous organisation, I want to hire an IT engineer.

2. My hr told me, let the software filter off the candidates, then she will read for the best fit before sending me those that can meet my job requirements.

3. I asked her why use software to filter off?

Later I may miss those got potential ones.

4. She showed me the numbers of resumes in a week - more than few hundreds and sometimes even thousands.

5. I almost fainted.

Even hr full time reading the resumes cannot finish reading.

6. If I read those few hundreds or thousands, I don't need to do my normal jobs already.

7. So after software filtering, hr filtering, those resumes that reach my desk still alot to read.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:20 PM]

1. So advice for job seekers, get a career coach from e2i or NTUC recruitment centre.

2. They will assess your job needs.

3. And the 1st thing they will do is to send you for a 1 day resume writing course (compulsory) - if you don't want your resume to be filtered out by software or AI.

4. If career coach forget or thought that you already have such format - still demand for resume writing course - as the resume format could be amended with the latest format.

5. Else you will really face the danger of your resume to be filtered out by the software or AI - before your potential bosses can even read your resume.

6. Not only the resume format is important, the style of writing to conform to job requirements also very important.

7. The software and now AI can interpret how you respond to the job requirements specified in the job roles.

8. Long writing is not necessarily good. Concise but meeting the job requirements is prize above meeting or exceed job requirements.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:23 PM]

If hr uses ai and software to filter out resume, why not just get employees to use software to have resume get through filter? So much effort and money teaching with skillsfuture when it can be automated

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:24 PM]

To get pass the filter, conform to the resume format, including fonts and meeting job requirements.

Other methods will fail.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:26 PM]

Actually companies already do this. You end up with long checkboxes uou manually fill up, some of which doesnt exist in the drop down menu. and in the end, they ask you for the resume with the exact same info.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:28 PM]

Well I am out of touch with recruitment process now. Cannot comment.

I only help my younger folks with the resume format.

And all got the internships and jobs.

So thus, I emphasize the resume format.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:28 PM]

Btw what field do you specialise in?

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:29 PM]

Oh I IT.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:30 PM]

But the resume format apply to all industry sectors.

My younger folks who are in IT, engineers, banking sectors got their jobs.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:32 PM]

Back then i find getting internship and employment a pain.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:33 PM]

Even if standard format and meet all skills dunno why ghosted

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:34 PM]

Then one company called back like months after i apply

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:34 PM]

By then already got a position somewhere else

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:36 PM]

Hmm...

Yes finding jobs not easy.

Honestly, as a manager who are recruiting one also not easy.

Eg. In my case, I only need 1 but few hundred applicants.

A big headache to pick the right one.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 1:42 PM]

Then I use ai to generate resume isn't it faster

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:43 PM]

Hahaha...

Now AI can recognise AI generated resumes.

The 1st to get filter out.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:44 PM]

I am not sure whether you heard of GAN (Generative Adversarial Network) - that will adversary challenge a neural network to out beat and out last an AI neural network.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:45 PM]

Nah ai will advance. It will filter out the bad ai

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:45 PM]

AI will always fight each other to get to the top.

Hence, very challenging field in AI.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:46 PM]

But if its ai assisted how can you tell

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:46 PM]

Just get user to proofread before sending

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:47 PM]

Lol maybe hire someone online to do it all for you

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:47 PM]

Now getting more and more difficult to determine human written or AI written.

Hence face to face interview will be the best to determine if the candidates are the one you want.

But 1st, the resume must make through 1st before one can even get an interview.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:48 PM]

Yeah so how can we get good candidates to not get filtered out if they dont step up their game whether ethical or not?

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 1:48 PM]

Using ai then edit by yourself lah

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 1:49 PM]

I mean use ai as a tool to help you but content wise do yourself

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:49 PM]

Hmm...

This is possible.

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 1:50 PM]

I mean no one is so stupid to fully rely on ai right

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:50 PM]

Lol there will always be some

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:50 PM]

Lol there will always be some

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:51 PM]

I don't know how.

If got few hundred or thousand resumes on your desk, what is the best way forward short of getting software or AI to do the 1st cut first.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:51 PM]

Oh you will be surprised.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:51 PM]

As a hirer  is there anything you think candidates generally lack

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:53 PM]

How about sg vs foreign. Is there different processes?

xXx.SCAR.xXx, [5/8/2024 1:53 PM]

It's depends on the quality of the training data & matrix word embedding (i.e. Word2Vec)

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:53 PM]

1. Skillsets that meet our needs 

2. Attitude 

3. Communication skills

4. Team players

5. Ability to think out of the box

6. Can solve complex problems or get the right help

7. Potential to move up the career ladders

8. Willingness to pick up new skills.

9. Can connect dots and see a big picture

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:54 PM]

Yes 

That is true.

Dataset very important to train AI models.

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:54 PM]

About skillset, 9times/10 i see them asking for 5 year exp in entry level

Adam, [5/8/2024 1:55 PM]

No wonder uni people are stcking internships

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:55 PM]

Yes.

Different process.

Local one route.

Foreigners one route.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 1:55 PM]

Internship is the best avenue to recruit the right candidates.

More companies using this route.

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 2:03 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 2:58 PM]

"Tan Kin Lian: NTUC Enterprise needs a proper mechanism to safeguard interests of policyholders".

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2024/08/02/tan-kin-lian-ntuc-enterprise-needs-a-proper-mechanism-to-safeguard-interests-of-policyholders/#:~:text=Skip%20to%20content-,Tan%20Kin%20Lian%3A%20NTUC%20Enterprise%20needs%20a%20proper%20mechanism%20to%20safeguard%20interests%20of%20policyholders,-Letters

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 2:59 PM]

I think this Tan Kin Lian got some valid points.

Now new regular savings plan - have more non-guaranteed components than the guaranteed ones.

Hence I no longer buy such plans.

I only buy NTUC Income gro capital ease whereby 99% are guaranteed - capital and interest.

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 3:01 PM]

[ Poll : 1. I believe that the Tripartite Alliance for Dispute Management and the Empower online platform help to safeguard employee rights. ]

- Agree

- Disagree (please share your views in the chats below)

- Didn't know about them

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 3:01 PM]

[ Poll : 2. What are some concerns that you may have regarding filing employment claims? ]

- Unclear claim processes

- Employers who refuse to make full payment despite having the means to do so

- Nil, as I am confident in the rollout of such initiatives.

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 3:01 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

Nicholas, [5/8/2024 3:47 PM]

Good there is this support for employees, otherwise there's always a power imbalance where employer seems more powerful than employee. Good that there are mediators who can call companies out when their thinking is incorrect.

G, [5/8/2024 3:48 PM]

The more NTUC income tries to defend this sale, the more apparent it is that this Allianz deal is the result of gross leadership incompetence at NTUC

Nicholas, [5/8/2024 3:53 PM]

Wonder if other NTUC entities e.g. NTUC Fairprice will be put on the market next? Before this deal have never heard of an NTUC entity being sold.

John Yong, [5/8/2024 3:56 PM]

💬 What are your thoughts on the increase in claims filed by employees? 

From the read of the article, the increase was mainly due to foreign workers from the construction sector filing claims for unpaid salaries due to their companies facing financial difficulties. The number of local vs non-local employees filing claims was about 50-50. 

About 14% of the claims were for wrongful dismissal and other reasons.

My thoughts are:

1. The efforts by TADM and MOM are correct, as all workers, regardless of nationality, need to be protected.

2. With the deteriorating economic environment, these claims could increase.

3. While MOM and TADM helping the workers is commendable and needed, are there efforts on prevention? Eg, 

a. penalties for recalcitrant employers (and maybe senior executives)

b. mandatory education for employers (eg senior executives and office holders)

c. While I assume the same protection applies to FDWs, does similar outreach go out to them to inform them of their rights

How else can the Government and various stakeholders step in to ease the process of settling work-related claims?

To me, the way to resolve these are to prevent them in the first place, though the suggestions in #3 above.

Perhaps another way (might it be too prescriptive?) is to have some FAQ or standard terms for employment published for reference. Eg I was surprised to hear that in the example quoted in the article that HR refused to recognise a medical certificate which was not from a company panel doctor or polyclinic.

On a macro level, Singapore is already one of the most 'employer-friendly' countries in the world, and strengthening the protection of all workers is a step in the right direction.

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 4:03 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

G, [5/8/2024 4:07 PM]

According to Tan Suee Chiehs open letter, NTUC enterprise committed in writing to be the majority shareholder of NTUC income after income was corporatised.

A mere 2 years after that commitment, NTUC enterprise sees fit to sell the majority share to Allianz, and in the same breath, still can koyok make assurances to put Singapore and Singaporeans first. 

Want to bluff who? Can't even keep a promise for more than 2 years?

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 4:41 PM]

I mean what are the assurance they put or they just talk only

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 4:42 PM]

This is what Singaporean will not be fooled. Like pap every time talk only but do the opposite. And opposition keep firing at pap for not doing what is being said

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 4:58 PM]

[ Poll : 1. I believe that the Tripartite Alliance for Dispute Management and the Empower online platform help to safeguard employee rights. ]

- Agree

- Disagree (please share your views in the chats below)

- Didn't know about them

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 4:58 PM]

[ Poll : 2. What are some concerns that you may have regarding filing employment claims? ]

- Unclear claim processes

- Employers who refuse to make full payment despite having the means to do so

- Nil, as I am confident in the rollout of such initiatives.

- Others (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 4:58 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 5:19 PM]

Having say so, I noted that:-

1. 99.99% of the minority shareholders (other than NTUC enterprise) + majority shareholders voted for the merger.

2. Also noted that 80 to 83% who take the poll voted for the merger.

3. Likewise as a policyholder and shrewd investor, I will wait for the merger to go through before I look at any good plans to buy from the merged entity.

4. With no merger, unlikely I will look at any plans - because I am not confident of its viability.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 5:31 PM]

Because account books don't tell lies.

LCL (Danny 心), [5/8/2024 5:45 PM]

Crispina Robert: 

Okay, so from a business point of view, tell me why this is a good deal. Why does it make sense for Income (Insurance) to merge with Allianz?

Professor Lawrence Loh:

Beyond the capital injection, the price that was offered by Allianz, $40 something (Singapore) dollars. It is really very significant premium over their net asset value per share, almost 37 per cent premium, which is something I would say is irresistible.

But having said that, I think even with the current model as a corporate entity, and even with a new owner with a majority stake, they can still maintain their social character. Sometimes companies even label themselves as a social enterprise.

But we must understand that beyond social there's still this word called enterprise. It's good to do good, but I think you have to do well, to do better.

Steven Chia:

So social enterprise means you got to make money before you can give money away, right?

Prof Loh:

If you are not financially sustainable there's nothing to talk about in governance, you cannot even help other people if you cannot help yourself.  

Steven:

Was Income (Insurance) in a way, in not such a great shape, in the sense that they needed some of the support otherwise, eventually, if they stayed on their own, would they maybe even die out at some point in time?  

Prof Loh:

No, let's look at it in perspective before they became corporatised, and I have made some computation. Their rate of growth as a co-operative is actually much lower than the rate of growth of the finance and insurance industry. So we thought that corporatisation could turn the situation around, but in fact, the revenue from premiums did not go up. It actually went down.

Crispina:

Income (Insurance) is technically one of the big four, "too big to fail”. The narrative seems to be that this would have helped them make (more) money. But were they not competitive, or are there just more players in the field?

Eddy Cheong:

Firstly, the insurance thing has become very competitive over the years. Over the last 20 years, there are many new insurance players coming in:  Aviva, FWD, China Taiping and so on. And when these players come in, the market share of individual insurance becomes smaller.

And with competition, (companies) tend to undercut each other and the margin gets very thin. In order to remain very competitive, you need to bring the price down to very little.

When Income (Insurance) started in 1970, (its) growth was phenomenal.  

Crispina:

When it was a majority player, so to speak, when there were less people in the playground?

Eddy:

That's right ... Over last 20 years, based on the report, their market share has dropped to less than 10 per cent on average over the last 10 years.

John Yong, [5/8/2024 6:03 PM]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-deal-ntuc-enterprise-ng-chee-meng-4526976?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_05082024_cna

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 6:03 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

G, [5/8/2024 6:21 PM]

True. So far assurances only. 2 years ago also assure that NTUC enterprise will continue to be majority shareholder..

But now want to sell majority share to Allianz.

Talk is cheap

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 6:35 PM]

Unless the contract say alliance must assure that it will continue provide good offers to Singapore and be under NTUC enterprise. Failure to do so will alliance needed to pay trillions to NTUC

Jun Ming, [5/8/2024 6:36 PM]

Just like the bullet train where Malaysia needs to pay 5 million to us

John Yong, [5/8/2024 6:42 PM]

Latest update

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/income-insurance-allianz-deal-ntuc-enterprise-ng-chee-meng-4526976?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_05082024_cna

John Yong, [5/8/2024 6:43 PM]

NTUC pledges to hold Income to commitment of keeping two existing low-cost insurance schemes affordable

NTUC remains deeply committed to its social mission, say labour chief Ng Chee Meng and NTUC president K Thanaletchimi.

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 6:45 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [5/8/2024 7:00 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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