REACH (Telegram) 16 - What are your thoughts on granting the police additional powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? How else can we better tackle the rise of scam cases in Singapore?

(SK)

23 Aug 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 9:46 AM]

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REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 10:02 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

With the number of scam cases and amount lost in the first half of 2024 hitting record highs, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) is studying measures to give the police more powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions.

💬 What are your thoughts on granting the police additional powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? How else can we better tackle the rise of scam cases in Singapore?

A mid-year scam and cybercrime statistics released by the police on 22 August showed that the scam situation here has worsened. The number of scam cases in the first half of 2024 increased by 16.3 per cent to 26,587, from the 22,853 cases during the same period in 2023.

📌 Considering additional powers for the police

The additional powers being considered for the police will involve a restriction on banking transactions when the authorities believe the victims will transfer money to scammers.

The police said the restriction will be time-limited. This means bank accounts will be frozen temporarily, so officers can convince victims they are being scammed, and investigate who they are transferring the money to.

MHA intends to conduct public consultations on the proposal, with more details expected to be released in the coming months.

📌 Banks customers have been using money lock features

The police revealed that as at July 31, more than 114,000 customers have used the Money Lock function, with over $9 billion of savings now set aside.

The feature is offered by the seven major retail banks – DBS Bank, OCBC Bank, UOB, Maybank, Standard Chartered, Citibank and HSBC.

It allows users to “lock up” a specified portion of their funds, which cannot be touched via digital transactions. The locked money can only be withdrawn or transferred in person at an ATM or at a branch, depending on the bank.

“Money Lock accounts will be protected from phishing scams. For scams that involve customers authorising the transfer, Money Lock adds substantial friction,” a spokesman from the Money Authority of Singapore (MAS) said.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/mha-mulls-allowing-police-to-restrict-victims-banking-transactions-to-tackle-scams

----

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 10:41 AM]

Good initiative

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 10:42 AM]

But how about if the victim needs to buy items from online platform

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 10:43 AM]

And usage of paylah on hawker

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 10:44 AM]

Will it restrict card transaction when buying things

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 10:52 AM]

Such as Lazada and shopee

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 11:01 AM]

[ Poll : 1. Do you support MHA’s proposal to grant the police more powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? ]

- Supportive

- Not Supportive (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 11:02 AM]

[ Poll : 2. Are you satisfied with the current measures to tackle scam cases in Singapore? ]

- I am satisfied. There are sufficient measures

- I am somewhat satisfied. More can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

- No, alot more can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

Caleb, [23/8/2024 11:05 AM]

Can send to all via gov.sg whatsapp and telegram like how it was communicating during covid?

Send in all 4 languages. Especially the elderly who don't  understand  english.

Adam, [23/8/2024 11:52 AM]

One annoying thing about banks is that they dunno the difference between authorised transactions and unauthorised when i use my card

Adam, [23/8/2024 11:52 AM]

A lot of time i wanna make purchase, cannot. I also dun get notif

Adam, [23/8/2024 11:54 AM]

One time, i messed up and put wrong ccv number when making purchase. Somehow the purchase still went through

Nicholas, [23/8/2024 11:59 AM]

Good progress, always wondered why the police seem so powerless when it comes to scams. Should give them further powers to identify and take down scammer's systems.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 12:17 PM]

Should also give them power to freeze passports

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 12:18 PM]

Once scammers see bank freeze ok let's get out of the country

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 12:19 PM]

Since they already transferred out the money

G, [23/8/2024 12:20 PM]

The part about how such powers cannot be abused is entirely missing

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 1:02 PM]

[ Poll : 1. Do you support MHA’s proposal to grant the police more powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? ]

- Supportive

- Not Supportive (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 1:02 PM]

[ Poll : 2. Are you satisfied with the current measures to tackle scam cases in Singapore? ]

- I am satisfied. There are sufficient measures

- I am somewhat satisfied. More can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

- No, alot more can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 1:02 PM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls and share your opinion. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan 😊

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:02 PM]

In terms of scam actually more could be done. For example tracing the money from banks to banks and try to recover it and not oh money cannot recover back

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:03 PM]

And be swift and effective to interview people by the next working day instead of after 1 month

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:04 PM]

Where scammer continues to trick people into believing them

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:05 PM]

By the time too late

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:06 PM]

Once arrested immediately charge them. Not wait for evidence to be fat lol where more victims suffer

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 1:22 PM]

*Progress on Digital measures against online scam*

1. Analysing the current scam trends from the news articles, the Government has done well in closing the loops from the digital technical angles notably:-

a. Anti-malware measures adopted by the various banks working with MAS and other IT & MHA Authorities - have eliminated the scammers from installing malware or unintentional download of malware via APK files into the smartphone.

Such anti-malware measures are able to detect APK files, other dangerous permissions or rights granted to scammers like split-screen, remote control etc.

I think Googles also work actively with our Government to pre-empt and stop suspected malware download.

b. Moneylock features adopted not only by local banks eg. OCBC, DBS and UOB but also offshore banks like Maybank, SCB, HSBC among others

c. SingPass can deactivate access by overseas IP address. Currently, this feature is optional.

I suggest SingPass should deactivate foreign IP address by default. Legitimate users who need to access from overseas IP address should activate it when need to use and then deactivate it when back to Singapore.

d. People should get local Telcos to bar overseas from making calls and send SMS to residents who stay in Singapore.

Overseas contact can communicate with us using WhatsApp, Telegram, email or video conferencing.

And any financial transactions via such channels --- will be a big Alarm Bell.

f. Reducing CPF withdrawal limit to $2,000 a day and users can set it to 0 (whereby users need to go to CPF branch to withdraw) at 55 years old.

Further limiting maximum withdrawal from $200,000 to $50,000 a day will reduce more money from being scam.

e.Previously, I have discussed in REACH WhatsApp about rearchitecting OOB (Out-Of-Band) National Intranet network to perform financial transactions - as Internet scamming and hacking are rampant.

But notice that such drastic measures can be halted and put on hold - as the above current technical digital measures has dramatically reduce the scammers from directly and remotely accessing victims smartphones or other devices to steal their bank credentials and money.

Most scams are conducted through social engineering - whereby scammers trick victims to transfer money out on their own - as scammers are unable to access victim's smartphone to steal their money.

g. Of course the advanced biometric authentication (with anti-spoofing on biometric) enhanced by AI will be the future way to go - if foolproof. Not sure about the R&D progress locally and worldwide.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:26 PM]

Agree that most scam is social engineering. I think the most common ones is 

a)e-commerce scam 

b) butchering scam 

3) love scam

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:27 PM]

Where scammers social engineer deep into victim

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:27 PM]

Very 缺德

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 1:29 PM]

As the Chinese saying says 只有做贼千日没有防贼千日。

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 1:44 PM]

*Scams through Social Engineering*

1. As reported by the news, with effective measures and tightening from the digital front by our Government working with the banks, telcos and social media platform, scammers are less successful in remotely stealing from the victims smartphones or other devices.

2. Now focusing on social media and communication platforms e.g WhatsApp, Telegram, META Facebook, Carousell etc will be the next stage in the fight against scams.

- This includes working with social media platform and telcos to take down scam phishing sites, advertisement, scammer accounts, terminate local telephone sim etc --- when suspected scams are discovered.

3. Identifying the current types of scam will make us more effective in tackling the scams :-

- phishing scam

- investment scam

- job scam

- love scam

- impersonating government official

4. All these need to involve social engineering. Many victims fall into it unintentionally out of curiousity, out of ignorance, out of needs, out of greeds, out of fear, out of boredom or loneliness --- mainly psychological and cognitive pitfalls.

Eg. Phishing scams - victims out of ignorance or curiousity clicking on bait links send through email, WhatsApp, Telegrams or bait websites.

Or fill up bank credentials to claim winning monies - out of greed.

Eg. Investment scams - victims trick into "too good to be true" ROI on investment - out of greed.

Eg. Job scams - victims fall into easy online jobs and good pay with little efforts - too good to be true - out of ignorance and out of needs to find jobs and income.

Eg. Love scams - victims out-of loneliness fall into "sugar" baits.

Eg. Government official impersonation - out of fear and ignorance that they have committed unintentional crimes and getting help in assistance to avoid prosecution.

All these involve social engineering --- whereby the scammers are skilled psychologists that can prey on victim's cognitive and psychological pitfalls.

5. Hence focusing on tackling social engineering to prevent people from falling into such traps become the next step to tackle scams.

a. Education is important to highlight such scams - so that population are informed of the scam tactics employ by scammers.

b. Always be alert when received messages, text, phone calls, video conferencing from strangers.

Reject should be a default.

6. I fully support MHA effort to temporary freeze the bank accounts of victims - if suspected that a scam is taking place - to prevent scammers from stealing the life savings of ignorant victims that fall into the bait of the scammers.

If additional powers are required, I will like to hear about it, and if effective, I will be supportive.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 1:56 PM]

1. Also I noticed the ScamShield revamp has been quite dramatic with many features

2. It show quite a good potential and more focus in identifying and filtering suspected scams based on different platforms.

3. Initially, not easy to used - and need some times to get used to.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 1:59 PM]

Victims critical thinking and mental strengths very important to identify whether the person they are dealing with are authentic or is a scammer.

Basic instinct is a good feel.

And need to critically assess every step a victim take, is it helping him/her or harming him/her.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:00 PM]

Never rush into it especially when dealing with strangers.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:07 PM]

When stranger approach you yes a lot people use critical thinking but when you approach stranger often people let down their guard

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:08 PM]

Another saying predators may appear like a prey to you

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:08 PM]

Normally in social media, I don't approach strangers especially foreigners.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:08 PM]

Very common in dating website/app

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:08 PM]

Avoid such sites.

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 2:09 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:09 PM]

Last time I got scammed a few times when using dating sites

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:10 PM]

Most are up to no good.

Must as well join social activities to meet prospect is better.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:10 PM]

As a young and naive guy it's easy to believe what is being told to you while searching for love

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:11 PM]

Hmm...

That's why critical thinking very important.

See physical - believe.

Virtual - be careful.

Most social media are not real.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:12 PM]

Nah even you have seen her physically also can scam you

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:13 PM]

Even after making police report they also can social engineer you to not pursue the case

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:13 PM]

Well need to understand her for some time to find out.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:14 PM]

Too many such cases online.

Most are foreigners.

Very tough to pursue.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:14 PM]

Local also have a lot

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:14 PM]

Just read reports on how many got arrested you will know

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:15 PM]

I think police resources are very tight unless the case is very blatant.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:15 PM]

But arrested does not mean charge

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:15 PM]

Also evidence may not be strong to prosecute.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:16 PM]

Don't know.

I think they will look at the merit of every case.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:16 PM]

So they can try to avoid getting prosecute by social engineer victims not to pursue and dropped the case

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:17 PM]

This is why I feel that police force should expand their forces

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:17 PM]

Hmm...

Not sure.

I cannot comment because I don't have such experience.

Normally I very careful in dealing with people.

Especially online.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:18 PM]

If they are foreign based they can fled the country and hard to trace them back or find evidence for interpol

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:18 PM]

Human resources limited.

You previously mentioned want to shrink population.

Now you see a country cannot function without sufficient manpower.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:19 PM]

Yes.

Not easy.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:20 PM]

Yup to shrink population but expand more of police force. As I find our population is too much foreigners where they cannot be on this line

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:20 PM]

Or not convincing to be in this line

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:21 PM]

Now you only see 1 small part.

As more topic come out, you will notice you will want more manpower in other sectors.

Must be able to see big picture.

Cannot be microscopic.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:22 PM]

Everywhere needs manpower but... you see manpower on govt job such as national service cannot rely on foreigners. You need our own local born Singaporean

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:23 PM]

Which is lacking... Because too much foreigners taking up space in our country

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:23 PM]

Provided locals married and have more babies.

But our TFR keep falling.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:24 PM]

Japan, SKorea and even China face falling birth rate.

Japan and SKorea face the real possibility of race extinction going by the current trend.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:25 PM]

Yeah. Because resources cannot support such population where people thinks it's overpopulated. As you can see such countries have a very stressful lifestyle

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:26 PM]

If people don't feel stress then babyboom will happen

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:28 PM]

That is what happens during boomer generation where war just ended. People suddenly feel relax and happy so they make babies

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:28 PM]

Japan SKorea economic growth in a doldrums for decades because of falling birth rate.

Not enough workers, aging population with no younger population propping up the economy, shrinking domestic market, foreign investors not coming in because lack talents and manpower, many houses vacant as aged passed away etc.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:29 PM]

Unless foreigners can work full-time sign on in NS services if not there will be not enough manpower

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:30 PM]

Many PRs children are serving national service.

Subsequently, they become new citizens.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:31 PM]

I have a few colleagues who are under such categories.

If they don't tell me, I thought they are Singaporeans because they speak, behave and look like one of us.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:31 PM]

Loh Khean Yew is one of them.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:32 PM]

Then maybe the NS forces not attractive enough for them

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:33 PM]

They serve NS as soldiers.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:33 PM]

Like population dense why is everywhere not enough man power

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:33 PM]

What is the problem?

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:34 PM]

Because our economy very big.

Our GDP is almost the same size of Malaysia.

We 5.65 million people 

Malaysia 30 million people.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:34 PM]

Then why essential service resources are so tight due to no man power

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:35 PM]

Can our land handle so many people?

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:35 PM]

Malaysia 5 people to handle versus Singapore 1 people to produce the same output.

That's we are 5 times more productive.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:36 PM]

What you see in Singapore is what it is.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 2:36 PM]

Can increase if the land is big enough or more bigger and higher house lah. Like build a 1000 floor building maybe can lor

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:37 PM]

Hahaha..

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:40 PM]

Singapore GDP  US$501.43 billion in 2023.

Malaysia GDP US$406.3 billion in 2022.

Cannot find 2023 figures for Malaysia.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:41 PM]

Btw.

To update on the affordability of 5 room flat and flat size - last discussion conclusion is inaccurate after I have conducted a study.

Better provide the right information in case people draw a wrong conclusion.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:42 PM]

====

*To close the loop on last topic, in a married family of single income - can afford 5-room BTO flat*

5 Room flats :

Boon Lay Glade, Jurong West Jewel $338,000 to $457,000 (5-room)

Aranda Breeze @ Yishun $366,000 to $459,000 (5-room)

Canberra Vista (Sembawang) $350,000 to $406,000 (5-room)

Sun Sails (Sembawang) $336,000 to $388,000 (5-room)

Grove Spring @ Yishun $385,000 to $485,000 (5-room)

Yishun Boardwalk (Yishun) $410,000 to $490,000 (5-room)

Yishun Beacon (Yishun) $485,000 to $595,000 (5-room)

Matilda Riverside $464,000 (5-room)

Woodgrove Edge $412,000 (5-room)

Taking the high side of 5 room flats = $480,000

Minus housing grants = $50,000

Remaining price = $430,000

Take a 20 years loan at 2.6% HDB/CPF loans = $1,838.25 loan installment a month payable to CPF.

A single income graduate (after 3 years of job) = $5,000 (starting pay $4,600).

Self CPF 20% + Employer CPF 17% = $1,850

No cash outlay - single income can pay for a 5 room flat (at 50 years old flat fully paid).

If take 25 years loan (service up to 55 years old), lagi affordable $1,470.60 repayment a month.

Fully payable by CPF.

No cash layout.

(Hence single income cannot afford a 5-room flat is not a true statement.)

====

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:42 PM]

Note:-

HDB portal calculator currently under maintenance to reflect the new HDB policies and cannot be used.

If use commercial property calculator, the amount is slightly higher (less accurate - plus and minus) because it doesn't take into account the various government housing grants such as EHG vis-a-vis the corresponding household income that are unique to each household.

But the commercial property calculation is still not too far off from the above example calculations. 

(Eg. $2,000 plus per month instead of $1,838.25)

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:43 PM]

*To close the loop on the previous topic - Are HDB flats getting smaller?*

Since 1997, the sizes of HDB flats have remained unchanged, even though the average household size has declined over the years.

What is the size of an old 4-room flat?

The standard size of a 4-room HDB flat is 90 square meters (969 square feet) for new flats and 82 square meters (883 square feet) for older flats.18 Jan 2024.

Source: Google from HDB website.

HDB | Designs-continually-improved-to-better-meet-needs

https://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/about-us/news-and-publications/letters-to-the-media/Designs-continually-improved-to-better-meet-needs#:~:text=Since%201997%2C%20the%20sizes%20of,has%20declined%20over%20the%20years.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:43 PM]

*To address the salary of fresh graduates - 2024 fresh graduates salaries*

Art & Business graduates $3,500 (lowest)

IT graduates $7,752 (highest)

Average graduate salary $4,600 (Honour).

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:43 PM]

Graduate Employment Survey 2023 (Published 2024) | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore

https://www.salary.sg/2024/graduate-employment-survey-2023-published-2024/

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:45 PM]

*Respond to why 1960s, 1970s the 5 room flat bigger than now*

1. 1960 and 1970s, Singapore is a undeveloped and under developing country.

Land is not a premium because many high value added investors are not coming in.

Now 2024, Singapore land is a premium.

People got to pay higher for each square foot of land especially in premium areas.

2. 2024 - The 5-room HDBs are the largest type of HDB flat, measuring around 110 to 130 square meters. Source :- Google.

1985 5-room flat size 120 sq metres (about 1,291 sq ft).

Surprisingly, I discover the flat size is almost the same.

3. So if a 5 room flat fetch $200,000 40 years ago, $500,000 in 2024 is not too far fetch. (2.5 times).

Because 40 years ago, 1 bowl of noodles is $1.

Now is $4. (4 times).

Hanny, [23/8/2024 2:45 PM]

Scammers are smart people. The moment you send your money, you can say the money is gone. I would suggest higher penalty for money mule. Improve public education. Make it mandatory for every MLM presentation to show a 5 min video that show how a person has been scammed. Gov agencies can come up with many videos that show the different ways a real person has been scammed.

G, [23/8/2024 2:47 PM]

Mischievously inflating the price of 5 room flats from 40 years ago? 😂

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:49 PM]

Huh?

All the examples are 2023 and 2024 5 room flat prices.

I suggest you get your facts right before commenting.

Else you will look less and less credible in the forum.

G, [23/8/2024 2:49 PM]

Using graduate salary now but fail to note that median salary is not graduate salary?

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:50 PM]

Median salary is Singapore wide.

As of 2024, the average salary in Singapore is projected to be around S$7,310 per month. For full-time employed Singapore residents, the Median Gross Monthly Income from work, including employer CPF contributions, is S$4,563.3 Aug 2024.

Source :- Google

G, [23/8/2024 2:50 PM]

U are the one who said 5 room flat prices from 40 years ago is $200,000. Not me

Get your facts right before commenting.

Else you will look less and less credible in the forum

G, [23/8/2024 2:50 PM]

Again, why use median salary? Why not use median salary of first time buyers?

G, [23/8/2024 2:51 PM]

What's the median salary of first time buyers in the 1980s?

What's the median salary of first time buyers now?

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:51 PM]

Yes I do. 

HDB got my records.

G, [23/8/2024 2:51 PM]

Yes. $200,000 for 5 room flat in the 80s is grossly inflated

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:52 PM]

Yawn...

I go drink coffee and shake legs.

G, [23/8/2024 2:53 PM]

New executive apartment going for $100+k back in the 80s. So u saying 5rm flat cost twice as much as executive apartment? 😂

Want to smoke who?

G, [23/8/2024 2:54 PM]

Yes please do and never come back and try to smoke people with false numbers

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 2:55 PM]

Oh I will come back to haunt you again when the time and topic is right.

Don't worry.

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 3:01 PM]

[ Poll : 1. Do you support MHA’s proposal to grant the police more powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? ]

- Supportive

- Not Supportive (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 3:01 PM]

[ Poll : 2. Are you satisfied with the current measures to tackle scam cases in Singapore? ]

- I am satisfied. There are sufficient measures

- I am somewhat satisfied. More can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

- No, alot more can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

Hanny, [23/8/2024 3:05 PM]

Gov can come up with statistics show how many people are scammed on daily basis. Stats can also be shown based on education level, race, age, housing type.

Hanny, [23/8/2024 3:06 PM]

The purpose is to raise awareness.

Hanny, [23/8/2024 3:06 PM]

Too many people think that they will not be scammed.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:06 PM]

Yes.

This happens to many people.

Younger ones more susceptible because they tend to use digital transactions more often.

Hanny, [23/8/2024 3:07 PM]

Yet a lot of people are scammed. Young and old. Rich and poor.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:08 PM]

More young people get scam in term of numbers.

Elderly less, but when scam, is a big amount.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:11 PM]

In one town hall, the IT Minister presented the scam charts.

Young people forms the majority being scammed.

Elderly lesser, but amount very big.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:28 PM]

Only when you don't use digital things then the chance of you getting scam is low

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:31 PM]

Quite true.

But doesn't means use digital sure kenna.

Trusted organisation and trusted sources - should have no issues.

It is accessing social media, new sites, dubious sites and transactions that you don't have control over.

Always be alert and take step one by one with critical thinking.

Cannot be too trusting 

Always check and verify with trusted sources before committing.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:31 PM]

It's very easy to fall in scam nowadays as

 everyone buys things online 

Everyone using dating app is vulnerable 

Everyone money not enough ( refer to jack neo money not enough and you will understand)

G, [23/8/2024 3:32 PM]

100% of CPF contribution can be used to finance HDB loan meh? 

Since when?

$1850 need to be distributed to OA, SA and Medisave right?

Isn't HDB loan only allowed to be financed using OA? 

If below 35 years old today, your $1850 only $1150 go to OA. Still need to cough up additional $700 cash in monthly mortgage, and the CPF OA will maintain at minimum, cannot grow. 

Still want to claim no cash outlay?

Your $4000 take home become $3,300. Still need to pay S&CC, utilities, property tax, income tax...

How much take home pay is really left?

Your claims on HDB financing and claims of affordability is really mischievous

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:33 PM]

If money and relationship is fulfilled it's hard to get scammed

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:33 PM]

People who are lonely and poor in the heart are the one vulnerable.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:33 PM]

Use trusted sites eg. Shoppe, Lazada.

Dating sites and other social media that deal with E-transactions should avoid.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:34 PM]

That's why psychological, emotional and cognitive pitfalls is what scammers try to exploit.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:35 PM]

Yeah. Sometimes it's when you hear success stories about dating app which cause people go in

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:35 PM]

Then only find scammers talking to you

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:36 PM]

Join the physical social activities that are organised locally.

Make more friends physically rather than over social media.

Because social media scammers will always prey on lonely heart.

Just be careful.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:36 PM]

Can gov compile how many cases are origin in dating apps and how many cases are from different sources

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:37 PM]

Maybe it will be easier to tackle

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:37 PM]

Previously, government organised SDU, SDS for people to date and get along.

Wonder how come now stop....

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:38 PM]

And the guess who I am scam call. Really... It target on middle age people I think

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:39 PM]

Now government must focus on social engineering.

Hence removing the chances of being scam virtually is to organise more physical activities.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:39 PM]

I think middle age, young and even elderly can be scam by love scam.

G, [23/8/2024 3:40 PM]

Yes. Easy to fall for the "HDB is affordable, single income graduate can afford 5 rm flat without cash outlay today scam" when presented with false numbers.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:43 PM]

Likewise, job scam can also be avoided by organising more physical job roadshow.

Investment scam can also be avoided if investment activities are organised physically licenced by MAS.

All these will stop social engineering through online.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:45 PM]

And for impersonation by government officials, only police or government authority with badges appearing at the doorstep - then will be considered authentic.

All online police investigation over phones are by default scams.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:48 PM]

How about overseas investment

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:48 PM]

Having say so:-

Social engineering by scammers online will be eliminated if:-

1. Job - physical roadshow.

2. Love - physical dating activities.

3. Investment - physical investment presentation.

4. Government official - appear in doorstep with badges instead of online

Will have resolve the above 4 social engineering scams.

And the only 2 scams left are shopping scam and phishing scams.

Shopping scams - always go through trusted sources eg. Shoppe, Lazada, Amazon etc and not other dubious sites.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:49 PM]

Overseas investment - I don't trust.

Because money once transfer overseas will be gone.

Cannot recover back.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 3:51 PM]

So gov should organise such things which is now lack off

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:55 PM]

I think government and business and community organisations should consider this.

Else people falling into social engineering scams not far fetched.

Because there are people with psychological vulnerabilities regardless of education level.

Even universities graduates will also Kenna.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 3:58 PM]

It is not about how high the IQ is.

Alot is how high the EQ is.

Because people will fall through the cracks when a person is emotionally weaker at a particular instance and make hasty decisions without critical thinking.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:00 PM]

Cause there's not really cheap alternative offical source especially for investment and dating

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 4:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:02 PM]

Oh investment seminar are free.

Sometimes organise by banks and financial institutions.

Sometimes there are good investment products in their official websites.

It can be trusted.

Dating activities are missing.

Maybe government should look into it.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:03 PM]

Yeah say want to increase fertility rate but never help Singaporean find love

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:03 PM]

Like that cannot lah

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:04 PM]

Hahaha...

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:05 PM]

For example, I usually browse the web for good investment but never make any transaction online.

I will go physically to the banks, insurance companies or financial institutions to talk to the officers there to do investment.

Only when such physical links are established, then can do online with official sources.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:36 PM]

Gov should put example of good practice instead just tell you what to avoid

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:38 PM]

But having say that it is a good initiative that police have more power to freeze victims bank account does that mean more victim may hesitate to report to police?

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:40 PM]

As from victim perspective they may not really know if it is a scam or sitting on the fence if it is a scam

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:42 PM]

Anti-scam unit with police and bank representatives sit side by side.

AI or human eyeballs will pick up suspicious bank transactions especially coming from or transferring to overseas.

They will be flagged up immediately especially involving individuals not business I think.

Jun Ming, [23/8/2024 4:43 PM]

Because not all scam is spotted by bank and police mah. Some is self report to police and at the same time unsure if it is a scam

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:43 PM]

Ah.

That's true.

Especially small amount.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:44 PM]

But last time even very small amount involving few hundred dollars also got pick up.

Because the victim is one of the hundreds of victims. She transfer money to the scammer account.

And the account was temporarily freeze.

LCL (Danny 心), [23/8/2024 4:54 PM]

Btw I just noticed in the scamshield new feature, there is an e-report.

Whereby a person can make a police report online if kenna scam.

Then the police can establish and correlate a scam trend.

If come from same scammers, police will zero in.

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 5:02 PM]

[ Poll : 1. Do you support MHA’s proposal to grant the police more powers to restrict scam victims’ banking transactions? ]

- Supportive

- Not Supportive (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 5:03 PM]

[ Poll : 2. Are you satisfied with the current measures to tackle scam cases in Singapore? ]

- I am satisfied. There are sufficient measures

- I am somewhat satisfied. More can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

- No, alot more can be done (please share your views in the chats below)

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 5:05 PM]

Dear Contributors, 

Do also share your opinion by participating in our polls! The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous. 😊

Megan

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 6:46 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [23/8/2024 6:59 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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