REACH 415 - What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

(SK)

30 Nov 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:46 am, 30/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

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Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 30/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

The Parliament has voted to repeal Section 377A in the Penal Code, while making a constitutional amendment to protect the definition of marriage against legal challenges yesterday.

In his concluding speech for the debate, Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam said that the Government will protect the heterosexual marriage as a key institution in our society and that his ministry was looking at ways to deal with harm caused by cancel culture. 

💬 What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

Social and Family Development Minister Masagos Zulkifli also added that Singapore’s education policies and curriculum remains anchored on prevailing family values and social norms.

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 Singapore passes laws to decriminalize gay sex, protect definition of marriage against legal challenge

📌 "Right time and right thing to do - Repeal of Section 377A"

In his opening speech at the debate, Minister K. Shanmugam stressed that it was both the right time - as well as the right thing to do - to repeal Section 377A. He also added his case that there was serious consideration that future courts may strike down Section 377A laws if left unattended.

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/parliament-repeals-section-377a-endorses-amendments-protecting-marriage-definition

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/shanmugam-377a-repeal-courts-government-3106531

-----

[10:03 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Glad to see the repeal went through, a step towards a more inclusive, celebratory country. I do think Religion should be separated from Legislation, and MPs who say they voted based on their Religious beliefs sets a bad precedent.  It's extraordinary to read how many MPs suddenly say they have "Many Friends in the LGBT community" but equally say they don't think they should be granted equal rights in the wider community. Perhaps one day Singapore can look at a new option for same-gender couples that give them better protection in the law, without having to change the definition of marriage.

[10:05 am, 30/11/2022] +Singapore Maid Agency: Lol then why are they separating the ppl who never jab

[10:05 am, 30/11/2022] +Singapore Maid Agency: Doesn’t make any sense to me

[10:06 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: ?

[10:09 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: Good move. Especially the protection of the definition of marriage.

[10:18 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: About time.  Cannot comprehend in this day and age what two people door behind closed doors is an offence.

[10:28 am, 30/11/2022] +Big Cannon Fairy: Debating this is a waste of time and Money. IF ppl like each other and do it. What can you do ? IF it harm GDP , then you should not go ahead . even go ahead , juts state not encourage but do as u please.  IF it presuure by other country , then should it the Realtionship manager to mange and reason out. If due to those Companies, then should not even need to care and influence by them . A simple logic not sure why a big fuss about it .

[10:31 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Sorry, I disagree. I think religious beliefs and cultural beliefs are core to many. As are non-religious/atheistic ones. We must not and cannot discriminate based on faith or non faith, as matters of family and relationships are very core to many. My 2 cents lah.

[10:31 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: I think this issue has been spoken about in many circles with different views. I just hope we will learn to live and let live.

[10:33 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: I respect core values, and appreciate that some cannot vote against their religious beliefs, in which case they should abstain.

[10:34 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: I'm very happy that in Singapore we are not subject to the same system that we see in other countries like Iran right now.

[10:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Still, as the law society president said recently, any religion can say it is wrong but not common law.

[10:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[10:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[10:37 am, 30/11/2022] +Tan Kay Eng: i agree with Grace although i am a free thinker. Since "L" believe in a more inclusive society, why penalised those MP who voted against it? shouldn't be everyone is entitle to their opinion/belief???🤔🤔

[10:39 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: Because of the inherent hypocrisy of the LBGTQ movement. Only their view is correct. If you oppose them on any grounds you're bigoted and etc etc etc 

Can't stand them

[10:41 am, 30/11/2022] +Tan Kay Eng: 👍 somehow I have the same feel as you. Please proof me wrong

[10:46 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: To the person who laughed  -  can you clarify?

[10:47 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Such behaviour is not civil or nice. It is why many don't like to engage in such conversations.

[10:56 am, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Natural union for marriage is one man and one woman, which links to natural way of reproduction. As much as I don't disagree that some in the community have differences, I don't agree that more support should goes to them, for example public housing.

HDB has joint Singles Scheme for these grp, although min age is 35yo.

[10:57 am, 30/11/2022] +Evangeline: Agree. I think we should be able to have proper civil discourse without mocking or laughing at a view. Religion is part of a persons life, and inherent for many. It shapes one’s worldview growing up so this cannot be ignored or brushed aside.

[10:57 am, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Ultimately government schemes or policies should still gear towards natural union of marriage

[10:57 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Definitely not Iran (with only 1 type of Islam that dominates) 

But not current China either (Communism, anti-religion). 

Singapore is multi-religious and having lived in different parts of the world, I  appreciate our diversity.

[10:57 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: I think the difference is that they are law makers, which means their secular view is then imposed on all of society. It's not a decision based on evidence or fact, it's a decision based on emotion.

[10:58 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Likewise

[10:58 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Also, I'm not suggesting an MP should be penalised, rather just abstain.

[10:58 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Sorry, this is an assertion. Are you saying religion/non religion is emotion?

[10:58 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: I think we have to be careful here...

[10:58 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Likewise

[10:59 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[10:59 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: @BL To dismiss a deeply held study of faith or non-faith as "emotion" is quite problematic.

[10:59 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: In any group there are louder voices, that can be intimidating, and annoying for others. Just as I wouldn't tarnish a whole Religious group, or Sports Fans, or Drinkers, or Race with the bad behaviour of some, nor should you.

[10:59 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Perhaps you meant something else?

[11:00 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Apologies if that's a poor term to use. Is there a better one?

[11:01 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes I think I did mean something else. Poor choice of word.

[11:02 am, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Universal Law - Order of Nature.

Male reproductive system and Female Reproductive system - allows the production of offsprings and the continuation of human civilization.

a. Hence it is the legitimate sexual union, formation of family units and it carry the torch of continuation and existential human civilization based on science.

b. If sexual union not based on science - not conform to the order of nature - ie. Union of wrong reproductive system - that lead to termination of human civilization - then the sexual union is not wholesome.

2. Culture, religious belief if anchor on, conform and proven by science - then adhering to culture and religious belief - has no contradiction.

[11:02 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: https://theindependent.sg/k-shanmugam-homosexuality-might-be-a-sin-in-some-religions-but-not-every-sin-is-a-crime/

[11:02 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: If I may humbly suggest, I think we are multi-religious (with faith/no faith/etc) and I think it is based on many sacred texts that are venerated through the ages - Sutra, Koran, Bible, Torah etc. 

Many of these are from faiths are from thousands of years of study and scholarism. Definitely not emotion only lah. Pls correct me if I am wrong. Thx

[11:02 am, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Personally I feel that party whip should be lifted so that each MP can represent the majority sensing of their constituency

[11:02 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Agree

[11:03 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+should+i+define+religion%2C+is+it+an+emotion%3F&rlz=1C1CHBF_enSG893SG893&oq=how+should+i+define+religion%2C+is+it+an+emotion%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l2.8040j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[11:03 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Not with the ruling party

[11:03 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: Please show me a non offensive one then.

In their case I am more than happy to hit the whole boat with the broom.

[11:04 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: 😟😳😀

[11:04 am, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Haha I can tell some PAP MPs a bit relectuant to vote for the appeal

[11:04 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[11:04 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes, makes sense.

[11:05 am, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: But will be good to have different voices - after all we are a democratic country

[11:05 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Religion is holistic. Emotions are part of it. 

But to say a person of faith is just "emotional", I think cannot lah :)

[11:06 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Anw, thank you, @BL, for clarifying. I appreciate it :)

[11:06 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Btw I am someone who struggles with faith. I appreciate learning from all faiths. Just some background.

[11:07 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Faith definitely has a place, I'm sure of that.

[11:08 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Some might say that's quite an offensive reply... clearly what's offensive to one isn't to another. Perhaps the earlier suggestion to live and let live, not impose on others, and try to see the best in people is a good approach.

[11:09 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Yep

[11:10 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: We alr very stressed in SG, learning to live harmoniously can start by not laughing at others or mocking..

[11:10 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: I think it is very hard to have civil discourse if any side is not open minded

[11:10 am, 30/11/2022] +Wai Xin: or we can all laugh a little more at ourselves 😁

[11:11 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: Validating my earlier point.

Typical twisted LBGTQ logic when they're trying to push their agenda and then screaming live and let live on the other hand.

[11:12 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: For minor matters, sure. 

But to laugh at valid points shows childish behaviour and it is off-putting.

[11:14 am, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Dispel or no dispel, I don't see any difference. The main community don't disregard them as not part of community, I think is they themselves wants to make it lawful to be accepted by community.

[11:15 am, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: We recognize their difference in sexual orientation

[11:15 am, 30/11/2022] +Liangwei: We may wish to aspire towards:

1) Think along the lines of Value Propositions. The proposition can be religious origin, activist origin, interest group origin etc. But to put forward as a value proposition for consideration n discussion in the  common space. We try not to shut down something too quickly just because it comes from an origin that we are unfamiliar with

2) Live n let live can be a baseline. But too much of it may lead to not letting ideas come forward and be debated and our overall ability to function as a society may drop

[11:15 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: What agenda is being pushed here? Be nice to people.... you don't like that?

[11:17 am, 30/11/2022] +Wai Xin: my view is that 377A had long been a legal problem because it mostly cannot be enforced and AG had already said they won't police two consenting adult.

it also single out sexual acts between two males as the target which itself goes against the concept of everyone being equal before law. (might even be unconstitutional to begin with)

thus the striking down of the section based on technicalities have long been justified (thus AP Tommy Koh had kept advocating them to strike it down) 

as for constitutional amendments, I felt it was an overkill. I look up to the constitution as the fundamental law that protects us from slavery, in our rights to having regular elections, having a clear definitions to the structure of governance.

but marriage matters in the constitution? I don't know.. it might turn out to be Bukit Panjang LRT of the future (aka the mistakes of the past government)

[11:20 am, 30/11/2022] +Ah Heng: but did anyone why only 377a applies to guys ?

[11:20 am, 30/11/2022] +Ah Heng: hahaha sorry just curious

[11:20 am, 30/11/2022] +Ah Heng: it should had been apply to the females gender as well

[11:21 am, 30/11/2022] +Ah Heng: but now at this stage ... is up to govt to make their final decision

[11:22 am, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Sexual penetration is by artificial means so not applicable for 377A

[11:23 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Sorry, I disagree. They don't go around saying "be nice to people".

[11:24 am, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: This is quite unacceptable.

[11:27 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Some do, some don't. Same as any organised Secular Group. ISIS and Taliban weren't known for tolerance. Do we accuse all religions of being like them?

[11:27 am, 30/11/2022] +Wai Xin: if i remember correctly it was created in the colonial times to stop british officers from preying on little boys.. so we inherited it in our penal code

[11:28 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: It's sad if people want to draw lines and fuel conflict between groups of opposing ideals.

[11:29 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: So I think it is not fair to say all they do is go around saying "be nice to people". There must be recognition of the realities on the ground.

[11:29 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Look at what happened to J K Rowling for simply stating this.

[11:30 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Learning, listening and understanding are healthy. Of course if people are oppressive they should be dealt with, no matter what they beleive.

[11:30 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes, agreed. That seemed crazy to me, the way she was treated, and not just her.

[11:32 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Clearly there is a nasty group of people in the LGBT community, just as there are in many communities. Just saying we can't tarnish all with the same brush, and can't be distracted from the principle of the community because then a small number of people can derail the whole point.

[11:32 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Anw I think we are all sound people who just want peace and harmony. Just as we have space to agree/disagree, we must have space for proper civil dialogue. My view.

[11:32 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: 100% agree

[11:32 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Yep

[11:33 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Problem is when they rally a mob to cancel others by saying "homophobic" or "transphobic" or "bigot" etc

[11:33 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Then how leh?

[11:33 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes, they are being just as nasty as the people they are protesting against.

[11:34 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Behaviour change and attitude change comes from understanding and education, not oppression.

[11:34 am, 30/11/2022] +Frankie Wee: Same sex is out of love has no meaning uphold families

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Erm, are you saying the people they are protesting against are always nasty?

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: And the best part of this is that these jokers have never been held accountable for their actions.

And now they wonder why people tar their whole community with the same brush

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: their own doing

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: I think J K Rowling made a fair point but was harrassed and vilified

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +Frankie Wee: I believe every family is disappointed that their turn out same sex

[11:35 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: lol, no didn't mean that.

[11:36 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Lol ok. Wanna clarify?

[11:36 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: I don't think they are protesting against all people, only people who are trying to vilify them.

[11:37 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: So, anyone who opposes them are "nasty"?

[11:37 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: opposition is not the same as vilify

[11:37 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: So how can one oppose without being seen to vilify?

[11:37 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Honest qn

[11:38 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: By intelligent debate and clear points of view, not resorting to name calling and legal penalties.

[11:39 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: If I was LGBT and paying my taxes that are used to fund the police to arrest me for something that is not hurting anyone, I might feel quite upset.

[11:40 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: If people called me "digusting" and other offensive terms, I might be quite upset.

[11:40 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: So based on this, she was still cancelled by an LGBT mob (again, not all are like that, but enough to make it an issue). I think that is what we cannot have in our small country.

[11:40 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Who cancelled her?

[11:42 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: There was a lot of fuss about what she said, but it's nonsense that she should be silenced and her books, films taken away. Whoever made that choice (if that did happen) they are the people to ask why they did it? It shoudl be OK for JK to say what she thinks and for people to respond.

[11:43 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: The problem seems to be that there is a wider vilification of people stating their opinion, and the problem with 'Free Speech" (which isn't free at all, and reserved for the wealthy mostly).

[11:44 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Personally, I avoid much of these conversations with friends and in the media. Obviously here it's today's topic so I've engaged 🙂

[11:45 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes, I recall she got nasty response. Not sure what being 'cancelled' meant?

[11:45 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Dave Chappelle was also targeted I remember.

[11:45 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Yea me too. Let's just have a good day lah. I have to join a meeting now. Have a nice day fellas.

[11:46 am, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Me too! See  you 🙂

[11:46 am, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Dunno.. too many to follow..

[0:14 pm, 30/11/2022] +Noraini: LGBT destroy society as history has shown again & again

[0:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: That's why our government is secular

[0:35 pm, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Source?

[0:47 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

When religions can be proven or reinforced by science - then religions are science.

[0:48 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.indy100.com/science-tech/scientists-created-mini-black-hole-2658785515

Scientists created a mini black hole and it started radiating.

Scientists has also created artificial sun in a lab.

Theoretically scientists can create a universe in the lab.

[0:48 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Scientists Want to Create a Universe in a Lab, And They Actually Could

It is scientifically possible.

https://futurism.com/scientists-may-create-universe-actually-could

[0:48 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Was Our Universe Created in a Laboratory?

Developing quantum-gravity technologies may elevate us to a “class A” civilization, capable of creating a baby universe.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/was-our-universe-created-in-a-laboratory/

[1:32 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Each human is composed of 50 trillions cells,  into a physical form

[1:35 pm, 30/11/2022] +Ken: Think long after we die 🤣🤣

[1:35 pm, 30/11/2022] +Ken: Don’t think will get to see it anytime soon

[1:35 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So science has proven the following :-

1. Form arises from Emptiness. Emptiness is form.

(Form = Universe) (Emptiness = Mind Mental States).

2. Multiple Universes can exist - specifically Multi-verses

3. Any humans with the right formula can create a Universe.

[1:37 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

4. Universes are Beginningless and Endless.

[1:37 pm, 30/11/2022] +Ken: Cheating spouse is a sin not a crime.. 🤣

Overeating is a sin by not a crime 

Being greedy with money is a sin not a crime the list goes one

[1:44 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

5. Creation of universe - transcend space and time - when a baby universe is created in a lab.

[1:49 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

6. Human mental states and physical states can exist in a multiverses - when a baby universe is created in a lab - transcending space and time.

[1:53 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: If Society was destroyed, how are we all still here?

[1:54 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Interestingly Science is really only interested in Disproving. Science is a process of testing theories, based on evidence, until they have no other explanation. But even then Scientist concede it's the best we know right now until somehow it is disproved.

[2:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

The Parliament has voted to repeal Section 377A in the Penal Code, while making a constitutional amendment to protect the definition of marriage against legal challenges yesterday.

In his concluding speech for the debate, Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam said that the Government will protect the heterosexual marriage as a key institution in our society and that his ministry was looking at ways to deal with harm caused by cancel culture. 

💬 What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

Social and Family Development Minister Masagos Zulkifli also added that Singapore’s education policies and curriculum re…

[2:12 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[2:17 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I support the following :-

1. Creation of Article 156 - is structured to give effect to protect laws and policies based on the heterosexual definition of marriage.

This Constitutional amendment shields against 'creative arguments' challenging definition of marriage --- is particularly reassuring to ensure heterosexual marriage - that conform to the Universal Law - Order of Nature for Procreation (in which reproductive system of Male and Female to produce offsprings based on Science) and formation of family unit is protected and enshrined - to ensure the existence and continuation of human civilisation.

I applaud the foresight and wisdom of the Government in this Constitutional amendment.

2. Upholding the Universal Law - Order of Nature for Procreation - based on science - to ensure the proper formation of a family unit that make up the backbone of the Society and the Country --- to ensure continuation of population replacement and all the policies associated with it.

3. Repeal of 377A that criminalise same sexual union of consenting adults in their private space - that cannot be enforced.

[2:21 pm, 30/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

It should be based on the following attributes :-

1. Wisdom based on Science, Facts and Knowledge - the WQ (Wisdom Quotient) that encompass IQ, pragmatism and common sense.

2. Compassion to embrace Mutual Inclusiveness.

3. Selfless - whereby solutions and policies should not only accomodate self-interest, but should also include National Interest and the Interest of Others.

[3:29 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party? 

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

[4:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

The Parliament has voted to repeal Section 377A in the Penal Code, while making a constitutional amendment to protect the definition of marriage against legal challenges yesterday.

In his concluding speech for the debate, Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam said that the Government will protect the heterosexual marriage as a key institution in our society and that his ministry was looking at ways to deal with harm caused by cancel culture. 

💬 What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

Social and Family Development Minister Masagos Zulkifli also added that Singapore’s education policies and curriculum re…

[5:10 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: I think one important way to accommodate different views in our society is to refrain from name-calling and labels that add to social divisiveness. People should be free to share their views respectfully and be curious to listen to and better understand the other side. Labelling shuts down discourse and our society is poorer for that.

[5:10 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yeah

[5:13 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: It's also not helpful to say that the speeches in Parliament are 'pitting' one camp against another. It's about both sides sharing views. Not helpful to use terminology like that.

[5:14 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Restraints shows on the faces of the parliamentarians

[5:14 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Yes I agree. But quite a few of them are being criticised by LGBTQ sites right now. I actually feel sorry for them.

[5:15 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: The price of being a politicians

[5:18 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Well, such criticisms can extend to ordinary citizens too. We must do our best to keep discourse vibrant and convince with our words and reasoning, not with name-calling and labels. :)

[5:20 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Lgbtq+ are known to be very vocal against those who don't see eye to eye with them!

[5:21 pm, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Not all, that's generalisation on your part too

[5:22 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: You haven't met them face to face.

[5:23 pm, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Actually i have a few LGBT friends who doesn't careless with the appeal

[5:23 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: A minority

[5:23 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: You mean repeal? That's true. I know LGBT friends who don't care too, and say they are making too big a deal of this.

[5:24 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: @Rama Chandran Andrew I think it's the vocal activists you're referring to. They may or may not be from the LGBTQ community. Lots of straight allies too.

[5:24 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Possibly

[5:25 pm, 30/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: They should not imposed allow time to change the society just like alcohol and marijuana in the US. Let's live in harmoniously and ensure full happiness and prosperity for all

[5:25 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Agree.

[5:25 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Difficult to measure

[5:26 pm, 30/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: Same here

[5:26 pm, 30/11/2022] +Timothy Low: Yes yes. Typo on my part

[5:27 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Examples of unhelpful name-calling and labelling

[5:29 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: @jimmy chew @Timothy Low the fact that we all know LGBTQ friends who don't care whether 377A is repealed also shows that there is a whole spectrum of LGBTQ folks out there. The narrative pushed by activists that all LGBT folks are pushing for repeal is simply not true. In fact, I even know LGBTQ friends who prefer for 377A not to be repealed.

[5:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: I see way more name calling and stirring from the LBGTQ crowd and their associates than from without.

 Makes it hard to even want to listen to their views after a while.

[5:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Agree.

[5:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Again, I don't want to generalise and say LGBTQ crowd. I would say LGBTQ activists. 'Cos we've just shown that we know LGBTQ friends who are not pushing for repeal, and neither are they engaging in the name-calling and labelling. :)

[5:31 pm, 30/11/2022] +Thomas or TD: Agree. Activists then. But the point holds though.

[5:31 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Many of my LGBT friends just want to get on with life, and stay away from the activism.

[5:39 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: 30 November, 2022

“Where, after all, do universal human rights begin? In small places, close to home – so close and so small that they cannot be seen on any maps of the world. Yet they are the world of the individual person; the neighbourhood he lives in; the school or college he attends; the factory, farm or office where he works. Such are the places where every man, woman and child seeks equal justice, equal opportunity, equal dignity without discrimination. Unless these rights have meaning there, they have little meaning anywhere. Without concerned citizen action to uphold them close to home, we shall look in vain for progress in the larger world.” 

- - Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady, United States

“To those who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, let me say:  You are not alone.  Your struggle for an end to violence and discrimination is a shared struggle.  Any attack on you is an attack on the universal values the United Nations and I have sworn to defend and uphold.  Today, I stand with you, and I call upon all countries and people to stand with you, too.” - - - Ban Ki-Moon, Former UN Secretary General

[5:42 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: ?

[5:47 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Why share this and give them a voice?

[5:48 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: just highlighting examples of name calling and labelling.

[5:48 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: There will always be people who create problems and disturbance. Human nature. It doesn't help to keep fueling the fire.

[5:49 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/4ZovrWFKJhM

[5:49 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: They are bullies basically. And bullies are best left ignored.

[5:49 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: i’m not fueling the fire. I’m just sharing examples to illustrate the point I’m making. ‘Cos we will be seeing more of that, and it’s good to be aware.

[5:49 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Ok

[5:50 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Well, I suspect we will be seeing more and more

of these. How do we prepare ourselves? Our children?

[5:53 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: It's all about people (以人为本)!

"Fear no,..."

[6:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

The Parliament has voted to repeal Section 377A in the Penal Code, while making a constitutional amendment to protect the definition of marriage against legal challenges yesterday.

In his concluding speech for the debate, Law and Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam said that the Government will protect the heterosexual marriage as a key institution in our society and that his ministry was looking at ways to deal with harm caused by cancel culture. 

💬 What are your views on the repeal and constitutional amendment passed in Parliament? How can we accommodate different values in our society without discrimination to any party?

Social and Family Development Minister Masagos Zulkifli also added that Singapore’s education policies and curriculum re…

[6:02 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Medical drugs legal in Thailand and soon Malaysia will not work here.

[6:03 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Government and law will step in

[6:08 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: 30 November, 2022

WHAT IF?

After all, (Bi)homosexuality is part of the human species.

Could this sexuality issue be due to biological and/or genetic sequencing that cannot be controlled or prevented or corrected?

It's painful! Hope everyone can have abit of  empathy and some compassion towards many (in)tangibles.

     - - in progress - -

[6:14 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Ultimately, sexual behaviour is as free or as loose as one decides

[6:14 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Good point

[6:17 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Just like porn, it is illegal symbolically but it is there if you search for it. 

Sexual drive is natural and healthy. But loose sexual practices (in all forms) should not suddenly be ok just because "aiya, I got urges lah". 

I hope we continue to see each other with respect and boundaries. Decorum and kindness is always timeless.

[6:21 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Grace, well said!

Being extreme is always unhealthy...

Thank you.

[6:23 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: My personal take is, before the western style of activism became quite loud in SG, we were all actually quite harmonious on many contentious issues. 

It is a sad thing to see name calling and outright hatred from some voices. 

We need moderation and calm. Singapore alr v stressed lah!! 😝

[6:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Grace, to add on...

For so long, this "sexual phenomena" existed from the Chinese classics of the Dream of the Red Chember (红楼梦) to Leonardo Da Vinci...it happened long ago!

Thank you.

[6:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Yes, Socrates and Plato were said to have had a bunch of young boys...

[6:30 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Yes, and my concern is that with the repeal, the activism will only increase.

[6:31 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Women had not much status then. Only for child rearing etc.

[6:31 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Well...

[6:32 pm, 30/11/2022] +L or BL: Maybe the opposite?

[6:32 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Social class and caste system

[6:33 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: That is why the institution of marriage protects women and children. They can get alimony and so on to protect them if things go awry. 

So women are not just seen as a "womb to rent". Ultimate objectification.

[6:33 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: I support this

[6:33 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Big Jackpot! Well worded!

Thank you, Grace!

[6:37 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: https://youtu.be/42ivIRd9N8E

[6:38 pm, 30/11/2022] +Grace: Saw this from a friend I actually disagree with. But it is quite a stark reminder why we don't wanna become like some other countries..

[6:44 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:45 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: I don’t think so. There are already calls to educate MPs, society, children towards pro-LGBT causes and attempts to normalise LGBT relationships and introduce same sex marriage. This is not going away anytime soon.

[6:46 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: Agree we don’t want to become like this. After awhile, it really loses all common sense and reason. 😅

[6:47 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: One enabler to level up between woman and man is Education, job opportunities and society as a whole accepting that women can contribute, do big things and especially at crucial moments trend to be calmer than the other half!

[6:48 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Anyway no policies will suit everyone or please everyone. We just need to exercise restrain when dealing with sensitive issues. Whether being accepted or not at the end of day, since you choose or you have choice, somehow you have to learn to live with it.

Being too vocal or aggressive, will only bring down the reputation of your group. Be calm, I'm sure you would be accepted by the community.

[6:50 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Uncle Law,. Well said!

Sensible and logical!

Thank you.

[6:53 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Education syllabus in public schools must nit change!

[6:55 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: As what grace has said, I totally agree with her. It is already stressful living in Singapore amid the rising inflation and cost.

Let's keep calm and end the year on a high note.

[6:55 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Agree

[6:55 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: 30 November, 2022

The point is, in the 10,000 years history of all human civilizations, perhaps the following quote is the key?

"If one lost the peoples' hopes  (trust), one will loose it all!" ("失民心者，失天下!")

- - anonymous 

     - - in progress - -

[6:55 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Yes

[6:56 pm, 30/11/2022] +Khuan Yew: PM Lee already announced the repeal of 377A during the National Day Rally. The repeal by Parliament was just going through the process and whatever debates there were, it made no difference because the outcome was already decided since the PAP did not lift the party whip. 

The constitutional amendment to include marriage does not do much for supporters of marriage between a man and woman because the PAP could decide in future again to change the definition of marriage to include same sex marriage. All it has to do is not to lift the party whip and it takes only 50% to change the definition of marriage.

[6:56 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Andrew!

[6:56 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Everyone here their own views, we should respect that. 

And it is gracious of everyone who contribute their views and feedbacks. 

Mainly because we hope to see things improve and live in a harmonious environment.

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Good evening

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: A difficult road lies ahead.

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: I'm sure.

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Last year NDP song would suit the mood here

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Always tough! That's life...

Cheers!

[6:57 pm, 30/11/2022] +Rama: Agree

[6:58 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: https://youtu.be/II_5jBaYmGQ

[6:58 pm, 30/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Sharing in case you are finding it

[6:58 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: Thank you, Uncle Law!

Idea Building more ideas...

[6:59 pm, 30/11/2022] +Khuan Yew: The argument that Minister of Law gives that 377A could be struck down by the law doesn’t seem to be the real reason. It is perhaps that society’s view has shifted and the government wants to follow that. Which means the marriage definition could be changed if the government decides to do so.

[7:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +Smiley face: 30 November, 2022

To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members

"It's about human to human interactions. It's not about male or female."

- - anonymous

People works?

It's all about people (以人为本)! How can we focus on people as the centre of lives then cultures and beliefs. Perhaps, this "People" way is the key in unlocking many unsolved social challenges, inequalities and clash of race and/or religion. Only if this world adopts a people theme may all of mankind laying-off their preferences (stigma) over others and look upon each other as human being - one kind!

Discrimination Laws, next?

Are there existing employment laws on workplace discrimination based on gender "identity" alone, this instance is the LGBT workers?

What are the parameters of proving if discrimination does happens, are there laws or so far none?

Should the Policymakers and stakeholders discuss and implement a code for discriminations at work or during the hiring process? 

Is it enforceable or not easy to proof and apprehend any unfair practises, insensitivity remarks towards co-workers or insulting others at the workplace?

Are we potentially opening a new can of complaints, litigations and settlements?

   - - in progress - -

[7:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[7:00 pm, 30/11/2022] +Maverick: it will be a difficult road ahead indeed. but let us all play our part to bring sense, reason and respectfulness to the debates. let us call out name calling and labelling. let us continue to cherish the time tested institution of man woman marriage

=====

REACH 414 - What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

(SK)

28 Nov 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:45 am, 28/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 28/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Aiming to improve the lives of about 73,200 platform workers here, the Advisory Committee on Platform Workers released a report containing 12 recommendations on Wednesday. The new policies, which have been accepted by the Government, will take effect progressively from the second half of 2024.

💬 What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 1. Ensuring platform workers receive adequate financial protection in case of work injury

The report said that compared to workers in sectors such as logistics, platform workers do not have adequate financial protection if they are injured at work. The committee recommended that all platform companies be required to provide the same scope and level of work injury compensation as employees are entitled to under the Work Injury Compensation Act (WICA).

📌 2. In case of injury, platforms should compensate workers for all lost earnings

In case of injury, said the report, the worker should be compensated for all potential earnings in their platforms' sectors, including what the worker would have earned from other platforms during the period they could not work due to their injury. The report also recommended that a commonly accepted definition of what it means for a platform worker to be “at work” be created.

📌 3. Mandatory CPF contributions by platform companies to those under 30, opt-in for older workers

To help platform workers set aside the same level of CPF savings for housing and retirement as employees with similar earnings in other sectors, the committee proposed that platform companies that exert significant level of management control over platform workers should provide CPF contributions at the same rates as employers.

Older cohorts of platform workers aged 30 and above can also opt in to the same CPF contribution regime once it is implemented, if they wish to do so.

📌 4. Mechanism for regular, not just yearly, MediSave contributions to be developed

The report recommended that platform companies work with the Government to develop a mechanism to deduct CPF contributions from platform workers’ earnings as and when the platform workers receive their income. This would include the deduction of MediSave contributions for all platform workers, including those who do not choose to opt in to the full CPF contribution regime stated above.

📌 5. Ensuring increased representation for platform workers

Platform workers should be able to form new representative bodies to formally seek a mandate to represent workers, proposed the report. They can then negotiate and enter into binding agreements with platform companies.

While platform workers have formed associations such as the National Delivery Champions Association, unlike unions, there is currently no legislative framework that allows these associations to formally represent workers, so agreements are not binding and there are no formal dispute resolution processes.

👉 https://str.sg/w9rY

👉 https://str.sg/w9L5

👉 https://str.sg/w9Lv

----

[10:41 am, 28/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today’s topic 😊

We hope that we can keep the discussion related to the topic robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[11:43 am, 28/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Aiming to improve the lives of about 73,200 platform workers here, the Advisory Committee on Platform Workers released a report containing 12 recommendations on Wednesday. The new policies, which have been accepted by the Government, will take effect progressively from the second half of 2024.

💬 What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 1. Ensuring platform workers receive adequate financial protection in case of work injury

The report said that compared to workers in sectors such as logistics, platform workers do not have adequate financial protection if they are inju…

[1:13 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: If delivery will be a career, on top of WICA compensation, CPF contribution, lost earnings, Medisave, and unionist, the platform should consider the following: 

1) The computation of each trip should be included factors not only the time taken and distance, but factors such as weather, food hygiene, fatigue, optimized route, and road safety should also be included.

2) platform should upskill the delivery person, such as knowledge for a better route, and undergo training for road safety, food hygiene, and exercise courses to indifferent this industry from other service lines.

[1:18 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: If the insurance industry is also going to provide insurance for the delivery person, it will be something great for the delivery industry.  

The platform may be able to work with food outlets to standardize the food packaging to increase the load per trip while maintaining the food quality and freshness. I.e., the delivery persons can stop over several delivery points per trip, which improves their earnings per trip.

[1:21 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: Not sure whether currently got a primary and satellite holding area for the delivery persons to rest while waiting for orders in each region. 🤔

[1:21 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: Provided by the platform

[1:54 pm, 28/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. 73,200 workers in delivery platform - is a large group of workers that will require protection - in terms of retirement savings, housing, medicare that are provided through CPF - in ordinary account (housing), special account (retirement), medisave (medicare).

Hence this new policies to provide for the gig economy - specifically delivery platform - come timely.

Understand that workers in delivery platform will have less take home pay - if contribution to CPF is mandated for such workers. 

But it is for their own good to have CPF protection - as they need to be cover by housing, retirement and medicare benefits - just like other workers. Else when they grow older without CPF coverage - they will have big problem in paying for housing, save enough for retirement and pay for their medical needs.

2. Workers in delivery platform are more vulnerable on the roads - as they need to deliver foods in a stipulated time - failing which, their order could be cancelled and they would incur loss.

Hence they have a tendency to rush and this may result in accidents.

Thus it is imperative that they need to be covered by insurance from the platform companies should they be injured during the course of works - like any other sector companies.

3. I fully support the Government new policies to support the delivery platform workers - to ensure they are accorded the same right, protection and benefits like all other workers.

4. However, just wonder what will be their career progression path for these delivery platform workers?

[1:56 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: Chief delivery officer, chief optimization officer and others chief operations officer in platform company in the service lines

[1:57 pm, 28/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Possible but only a few roles for 73,200 workers.

[1:58 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: If the team is big enough, it can consider venturing into other products, not limited to Food only.

[1:59 pm, 28/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Another ninja van.

[1:59 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: The message, customer product, and letters etc.

[2:00 pm, 28/11/2022] +SL: Not quite the same as ninja van, as this is a premium service. Door to door within the hour.

[2:01 pm, 28/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Aiming to improve the lives of about 73,200 platform workers here, the Advisory Committee on Platform Workers released a report containing 12 recommendations on Wednesday. The new policies, which have been accepted by the Government, will take effect progressively from the second half of 2024.

💬 What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 1. Ensuring platform workers receive adequate financial protection in case of work injury

The report said that compared to workers in sectors such as logistics, platform workers do not have adequate financial protection if they are inju…

[3:11 pm, 28/11/2022] +Smiley face: 28 November, 2022

Peace of Mind and No Worry?

"Maximum protections and minimal disruptions to all workers and their families "

- - anonymous 

Legislate?

Given the 73,000+ workers, insurers could underwrite policies to cover a spectrum of benefits from permanent disabilities to death. Part time or full time workers are compulsory to subscribe to this insurance policy payable by either their employers or self paid if he or she is self employed.

The annual insurance premium plan varies from $150, $200, $250, $300 and $500 The top tier plan will have maximum payout (non negligence) of $1,000,000 upon disabilities or death and others benefits to include various claims from minor injuries or temporary unemployment due to accident.

Can we also extend targ…

[3:19 pm, 28/11/2022] +Smiley face: Government perhaps should encourage employers and self employed by chipping-in $50 to $200 for the next 5 years, this "care & share" package insurances.

[4:00 pm, 28/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Aiming to improve the lives of about 73,200 platform workers here, the Advisory Committee on Platform Workers released a report containing 12 recommendations on Wednesday. The new policies, which have been accepted by the Government, will take effect progressively from the second half of 2024.

💬 What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 1. Ensuring platform workers receive adequate financial protection in case of work injury

The report said that compared to workers in sectors such as logistics, platform workers do not have adequate financial protection if they are inju…

[4:02 pm, 28/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps those above 30 could be made compulsory. Implementation to shift earlier.

[4:22 pm, 28/11/2022] +Ken: The issue of doing those… they have better control of their time, and no need to contribute to CPF. 

Last time when I work in restaurant anything about $800 will need to contribute to CPF not even given a choice 😅

If they were to work in those platforms, think it would be good to have certain levels of contribution. To ensure their retirements and able to buy house with CPF. 

But of course those cost will pass on to users 😅 but no choice.

[6:00 pm, 28/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Aiming to improve the lives of about 73,200 platform workers here, the Advisory Committee on Platform Workers released a report containing 12 recommendations on Wednesday. The new policies, which have been accepted by the Government, will take effect progressively from the second half of 2024.

💬 What are your views on the new policies to better support platform workers? How can we build a fairer and more balanced relationship between platforms and their workers?

Highlights from the report are as follows: 

📌 1. Ensuring platform workers receive adequate financial protection in case of work injury

The report said that compared to workers in sectors such as logistics, platform workers do not have adequate financial protection if they are inju…

[6:45 pm, 28/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:59 pm, 28/11/2022] +Smiley face: 28 November, 2022

To: Our Distinguished Leaders, Our Outstanding Charities and All Honorable Members

"Lifetime Coverage"

"If life is a long journey, whether is a good one or a bad one, moments of joyfulness or a long period of sadness. Life itself is a finite route that continues and move on".

- - anonymous 

What about total coverage?

Can we quantify that all platform workers are lower wage earners? The total household monthly income of $4,000 and below with dependents who are too young to work or unable to work due to medical reasons or too old to work? What are the existing minimum insurance coverages, is it sufficient for these platform workers especially when they are doing outdoor jobs and/or mobile jobs? Who will pay for the insurance premium?

Policymakers will have to re-examine and if need to, add more protections to cover these workers on a "limited" and calibrated lifetime supports from medical, education, monthly allowances to housing bills just in case unfortunate accidents happened.

Coverages?

On permanent disabilities, we assume workers are insured and that insurance company will award a one-time payment of a few hundred thousands dollars or lesser amount to this disabled worker? 

The need for medical services will be another big cost that can be long term and policymakers need to find the funds to set asides for the affected workers and how about their family members? 

Perhaps the total amount awarded by insurance should be redirected (up to 50%) into this individual medisave account for future cost of this "extraordinary subsidised" medical treatments and the rest in cash to this claimant.

Efficient? 

The disbursements of monetary helps must be swift and the other intangibles services should also be efficient too.

In the case of more than two dependents in this household, the monthly assistance should be more than $1,200 for extended period of time till these dependents are able to support the family. When there is seniors in this household, more assistance are needed to cover all of their medical for free. Other supports to include educations, monthly assisted income, housing, utilities & fees.

In the unfortunate event of death, the same privileges are given to this household as long as the dependents are under the age of 21 years old and seniors that is 60 years and older. The monthly assisted income of $1,200 or give more to lessen financial obligations on a case by case basis. 

Case to case, it will be assess on a six months basis whether to add more helps, or to reduce helps or succeeded in uplifting and thus no future helps are needed for this family.

Sufficient?

Besides the successful claim from insurance and the existing worker's compensation under the labor laws. For permanent disabilities or death, often, the compensated money may not be sufficient for this individual to live through her/his entire life span, not enough for the family to survive, or temporary (one year or two unemployed) injured worker who maybe the sole breadwinner or the worse situation is this individual has already passed on.

There may be a need to engage counsellor and/or psychologist to help the affected person and the family members to guide them through the difficult and sudden painful experiences, mental shocks and future challenges?

All of the above situations, are either temporarily, permanently disabled or death. Hopefully through private efforts, donation from charities and government helpings, those seriously injured or disabled individuals and their immediate families will have top priority access to MND rental housing, subsidised utilities and waiver of fees, free MOH medical cares, free MOE education, job placements through MOM and monthly allowances from MSF. 

   - -  in progress - -

[7:00 pm, 28/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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REACH 413 - What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving economy?

(SK)

23 Nov 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:02 am, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

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Megan 😊

[10:04 am, 23/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Education Minister Chan Chun Sing launched the second edition of the Skills Demand for the Future Economy Report at the SkillsFuture Fellowships and Employer Awards Ceremony yesterday (22 Nov). The report found that the demand for workers with skills in the digital, green and caregiving spheres has surged in Singapore over the last four years. 

SkillsFuture Singapore, in a statement, also said that from Jan 1, 2023, Singaporeans can undergo specialised training to acquire skills in the digital, green and care industries, through a refreshed series of SkillsFuture courses.

💬 What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving economy?

Speaking at the ceremony, Minister Chan said upskilling and reskilling were now increasingly necessary for individuals - and businesses - to thrive. To remain competitive, enterprises have to transform and grow, and that requires new skills and competencies.

“Rather than only seeking to hire individuals from the market to plug these skills gaps, companies can also invest in training their existing pool of workers,” he said. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/surge-in-demand-for-green-digital-care-skills-in-singapore-in-last-4-years-skillsfuture-report

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/skillsfuture-courses-be-refreshed-focus-digital-green-and-care-sectors-3091936

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[10:21 am, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Think having a clearer picture for the demand in such jobs will need to be better lay down. 

And future jobs that might not be around, would also hinted. 

If not the drive to move forward is pretty much hard for anyone to move. Many that have work for years. Comfortably paid and not much work to do as they already familiar with the system. What can drive them to move. Incentive or clear hint for future is require for us to make the right choice.

[10:25 am, 23/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps can refer to data on the number of citizens uses the SkillFuture Fund and also the last additional Topup.

Personally I have used up all the available credits, but I do know of many who have yet to use them

[11:11 am, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

[11:18 am, 23/11/2022] +俊宇: Will there be another injection of Skillsfuture credits? 🤔

[11:19 am, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Would be good

[11:20 am, 23/11/2022] +俊宇: I always feel like $1k is great (thank you gov) but for serious upgrade and skills the courses might cost more?

[11:21 am, 23/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps those need more funds could allow to request

[11:21 am, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Diploma in cybersecurity and counter terrorism offered by Aventis is sgd3k after factoring in all government subsidies!

[11:22 am, 23/11/2022] +Wai Xin: The move to improve digitalization in all industry is a good one. The current approach looks to be moving in a generic way, would like to see the skillsfuture offering evolve to add in a hybrid of industry-specific digitalization in near future. this will avoid having a glut of people with generic digital skills. for example, there are a lot of python and data analytics course. the focus is a lot on how to use tools and software libraries, will need more use cases and business scenarios for trainees to apply.

[11:22 am, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Give it till 2030 to assess the progress

[11:25 am, 23/11/2022] +Wai Xin: I will say, 2025-2026 is a good time to assess. the world is changing much faster

[11:28 am, 23/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps those who are unemployed, more funds could be given to them?

[11:28 am, 23/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Provide job counseling

[11:36 am, 23/11/2022] +Thomas: Maybe we setup a unemployment insurance where it will pay out during your unemployment ? While we are employed, we pay a premium for such situation ? The duration of the insurance payout 2 to 3 years but will stop once you are employed again . The pay out depends on the premium and desire payout ?

[11:52 am, 23/11/2022] +Brandon Lin: My humble point of view: 

Honestly I am not well known to this SkillsFuture Scheme. To my basic knowledge, We, Singaporean can use the funds we have to take up some courses to upgrade ourselves. 

To my opinion, this Skills upskilling and or reskilling is mainly targeted for people who are retrenched, out of job or looking to change career midway. As these courses are targeted and specific to the particular skills itself, even after attending the course, it doesn’t warrant them to get a job after that. We need to also consider individual underlying education level. For ie: I am just a diploma student and by taking digital courses, because of my lack of a Higher education certification, I’m still unable to look for jobs despite having the skills after the course. I know it’s Job dependent too. 

What I would like to drive is, besides having essential skilled courses, Skillfuture should include higher education programme inside to integrate and upgrade the individual overall educational and technical level. 

As higher education programme offered by Private institutions are Sky high, hence SkillsFuture perhaps can workout some shorter and part time programmes for Learning Adults and perhaps a scheme to assist them in the course fees. It’s never easy for a breadwinner to fork out few or many thousands to upgrade him or herself. 

As for Businesses, honestly for SME owners, they usually don’t have the bandwidth to allow their employee to go upgrading due to manpower shortages and despite incentives for business owners to encourage sending their staff, many of the local SME bosses doesn’t really know how it works. The Govt need to really SkillsFuture team to go on the ground and share this schemes with the bosses directly so they understand the benefits and value by sending their staff to upgrading. 

This is my humble and little knowledge about today topic. 

Thank you

[11:57 am, 23/11/2022] +Grace: I think many cannot find time to try these courses and dunno how to find it

[0:27 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Means testing and show effort in seeking employment

[0:28 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: For all the assistance rendered, it boils down to the individual to make the move by adjustment to current way of life

[0:49 pm, 23/11/2022] +俊宇: Does the courses actually help though?

[0:50 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Not sure if there's follow up statistics to show success rate

[0:55 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: If really want to upgrade its just help you reduce course fee not good enough)

[0:56 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: To be frank.. I did the python course from NTUC learning.. not bad..

But I can see many in the class have zero knowledge, having trouble using the computer 😅

I doubt even if they finish the course can be useful for them at all.

[0:56 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: They go in thinking it will help them look for job… but it is totally… too far for them to adapt after learning 😅

[0:59 pm, 23/11/2022] +俊宇: I did look through the courses before but many seem to be short general courses, makes me wonder if folks really did learn helpful things and whether employers even care when they see that you went for said courses 🤷

[1:03 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: About 20% have zero computer knowledge 😅 

I wonder the course subsidies is it good for them.

[1:04 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Government is looking into changing the course to suit anticipating future demands

[1:04 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: The join cause is cheap above 45, but the problem is can they make use of it is another problem

[1:05 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Only like 3 of us out of the whole class is young and really catch what is being taught 😅

[1:05 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Is there a thorough analysis or just to get older singaporeans into classroom but no possible job success!?

[1:06 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: I am not sure.. but just doing the course maybe just a introduction for them only.. 

NUS has a stackable masters which is not bad. Just a bit expensive. 

My friend from non IT background able to complete it.

[1:06 pm, 23/11/2022] +Nutty: I agree with you. I was looking to register my parents for some courses and some are 1 day, 2-4hr courses which might not really be very effective? But because of the number of credits given, people might opt for these “cheaper” and “shorter” courses. I believe skills future is a good initiative but maybe some regulation can be done to help ensure that the courses are effective? Or have better course categorisations?

[1:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Mine python course is a 3 full day course

[1:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Valli: Yes they should look into offering attachment jobs for those unemployed upon course completion.

[1:10 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Not so easy… if they cant meet min requirements 😅

Companies might need to spend more time training them.

NUS master program do offer capstone projects that work with industry. To handle real projects

[1:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Then, means testing must apply before course registration

[1:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Lol how do you test use computer?

[1:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: In the class there are people that can’t even know how to install the program for the course 😅😅

[1:12 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Test students ability to use pc

[1:12 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: We spend half a day to get everyone up to speed

[1:12 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: To be on the same page

[1:12 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: End of 3 days… still got people ask how to start the program was a bit lost and can’t catch up

[1:13 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: For course that are heavily subsidised, Microsoft Office should be a minimum

[1:13 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: 😅 I really doubt they can learn anything useful for job interview.

[1:13 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: The actual course is 3k if not wrong.. 

with subsidies $300 without using skillfuture

[1:14 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: For me below 45 so is a bit more I just pay to learn

[1:14 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: The lecturer was decent

[1:57 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Let us examine the Skillsfuture credit payout - is given to 25 years old for $500.

2. Demograhics information say 15 years and above is 5.22 million. Estimate 25 years and above is 5 million.

3. Skillsfuture credit is $2.5 billion - a very big sum.

4. Hence, skillsfuture credit must be used effectively - to achieve the desired outcome - that is to help people upskill or reskill - to find jobs and get employed.

5. It should not be view as - taking up course just for the sake of knowledge - because this are taxpayers money - with the objectives of helping people find jobs to feed themselves and families, as well as provide a source of labour to help business and the Economy to make our Country competitive.

6. Thus I will like the skillsfuture credit to be used effectively and achieve the desired outcomes and should not be disburse for the sake of "oh it is free money, just use it to pass time, and learn something - without a clear objective - with economic outcomes - for self, business and economy".

7. Hence I will like to suggest skillsfuture credit should be categorise according to the following priority :-

a. Train and Placement - for those who have been retrenched or for those who are unemployed actively looking for jobs. (employment)

b. Skill conversion - for those who intend to resign from their current jobs intending to look for new jobs that require new skillsets - due to impending retrenchment, restructuring, or current job not suitable. (job reskill)

c. Upskill - for those who have jobs but intend to upgrade their skills in new technologies, new process/methods/procedures.

8. The above 3 categories must be backup and supported by business who intend to use the skills upon completing the course.

Some specialised course should be considered for issuing recognised professional certificates - to give the course recognition and legitimacy - in getting jobs.

9. Only by doing so, I feel 3 groups will truly benefit from the Skillsfuture credit - for individuals, business and the Economy.

[2:00 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Totally agree

[2:13 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Next I want to address insurance for retrenched workers.

2. It is not an easy topic - because a retrenched workers or unemployed people for actively looking for jobs - but unable to get one in near term - can be very stressful - because people need to put food on the table and pay daily expenses - especially for sole-breadwinner.

3. Hence retrenchment insurance - is an easy way out to give monthly money to retrenched or unemployed people - just like monthly salary.

4. But if study indepth - it may not be practical.

5. Which insurance companies will truly offer a retrenchment insurance - if they retrenchment is so unpredictable that can happen to anyone?

How much premium can they collect to make it viable for insurance companies to offer such insurance policies - other than getting everyone involve - and putting burden on working people as well as business --- which in turn make our Economy uncompetitive --- as workers and business are already paying CPF.

6. Also how to assure people will actively look for jobs - once they receive insurance payout - as finding jobs, going for interview etc are very stressful - and people can easily give out - as they have fallback - ie. monthly insurance payout to rely on --- and this will blunt people's effort to look for jobs.

This will be bad for individuals, business looking for workers and consequently our Economy.

7. Hence a better approach is :-

a. Train and placement ---- whereby retrenched workers, unemployed workers actively looking for jobs - should be place on a train and placement program - supported by business - whereby upon completion of training - to be placed on a job.

While undergoing training, will received a living allowance to tie through the period while receiving training.

This will be more effective in ensuring retrenched or unemployed persons will have income to put food on table while receiving training, upon completion - land themselves a job.

Good for individual, business and Economy - competitiveness --- rather than a retrenchment insurance payout - bad for individual, business, economy - and additional burden to everyone --- and yet blunt the motivation to find jobs and land them a job.

[2:29 pm, 23/11/2022] +Thomas: This is something that Insurance company need to study. The amount of payout is sufficient to survive and time period so that it is a incentive to look for job. This is to relieve the stress of person. This way, the issue of unemployment will not be weight to heavily on Government to support individual. The payment of premium is up to individual how much they are willing to pay. The cycle of recession is getting shorter. The Government can kick start by putting seed money into this pool of insurance and later supplement by premiums.

[2:32 pm, 23/11/2022] +Thomas: All our insurance, we pay our premium. The stress of unemployment will be higher for the higher income person as he/she has other commitments when he/she is fully employed. For the lower income, I do not see them have the ability to pay the premium but they will need to be supported somehow by the Government social services.

[2:33 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Individual taking up insurance is ok.

Government should not be involved in using taxpayer money for this.

Government should place emphasis on train and placement and giving allowance during training.

[2:35 pm, 23/11/2022] +Thomas: No , Government shouldn't take up the insurance for individual. But on the other hand, Government can support some premium payment for lower income group. I am ok to support this group of lower income

[2:37 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because insurance payout don't guarantee the retrenched or unemployed person got the right skillset to get jobs.

Training allowance ensure the person are trained in right skillset to get trained and placed and get money during training.

It is more superior than giving away free money - but don't get the intended outcome.

[2:38 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Government money is taxpayer money - must be use effectively.

Even social services money go through very thorough review before it dispense to help the low income.

[2:39 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Anyway no insurance company offer retrenchment insurance based on what I know.

Any insurance companies out there?

[2:44 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Anyway I have known of few mature workers about 50 years old - have invest in few insurance policies.

When they get retrenched and unable to find jobs - they stop to look for jobs - and rather shake legs at home - why make their lives so stressful.

We lose these people who still have many good years to offer.

Imagine government funding such insurance payout in a big scale - many people will stop working and become lazy

[2:45 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This will blunt our labor competitiveness.

[2:47 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And yet induced unnecessary burden on all those people who are working as well as business - because government must get money from somewhere - if not through taxes, then through what means?

Higher GST, income tax or corporate tax?

[2:58 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Agree

[2:58 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Not in Singapore but there is for overseas

[3:00 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why many developed countries facing huge economic problems, big public debt, no sovereign funds and reserve because it place undue burden on working people and drain all government funds.

A sure way to make a nation poor.

[3:00 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unemployment-insurance.asp

[3:01 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Must understand human psychology.

Once they have fallback - they won't work.

[3:02 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Then again for government don’t really make sense for them to fund it… if the economy is not doing well… they will have less income and still need to payout a bit tough

[3:02 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: 26 weeks only… not forever 😅

[3:02 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Depends on your scheme as well

[3:05 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

US public debt $31 trillion.

They expect their future descendants to pay - while current population enjoy the free payout.

[3:05 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: 🤣🤣 it’s a number as long as people believe in USD. That number don’t matter at all.. their interest itself have over take its income

[3:05 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: But still we use USD

[3:05 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: 🤷🏻‍♂️

[3:06 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: If they default many countries will suffer

[3:06 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But good enough to make people lazy - funded by taxpayer money with no good outcome.

After 26 weeks, can guarantee they can find jobs?

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Utter madness

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Oh well is to help you tie over not depending on it

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: 😅

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: If you can’t find is your problem…

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then isn't training allowance with guarantee job placement more useful?

[3:07 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Respect our government for its prudence

[3:08 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Either you are unskilled or unemployable… 

But depends on person many jobs have low barrier if you can’t find decent ones… then just have to do what every comes

[3:08 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: If you want to survive

[3:08 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Lol it help a lot with the allowance.. I seen many business owner use it to tie over tough times in covid

[3:09 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Extra 500 to 1000 will help a long way during the down period

[3:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Education Minister Chan Chun Sing launched the second edition of the Skills Demand for the Future Economy Report at the SkillsFuture Fellowships and Employer Awards Ceremony yesterday (22 Nov). The report found that the demand for workers with skills in the digital, green and caregiving spheres has surged in Singapore over the last four years. 

SkillsFuture Singapore, in a statement, also said that from Jan 1, 2023, Singaporeans can undergo specialised training to acquire skills in the digital, green and care industries, through a refreshed series of SkillsFuture courses.

💬 What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving econom…

[3:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Adhoc basis or smaller but long term!?

[3:13 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: During covid many earn and learn scheme…

[3:14 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: Government pay for attending classes for many free lance or business owners actual use that to tie over on top of the money government gave out during covid

[3:15 pm, 23/11/2022] +Ken: $25 and hour or so depends on class and which type.. details not very sure…

[4:00 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Education Minister Chan Chun Sing launched the second edition of the Skills Demand for the Future Economy Report at the SkillsFuture Fellowships and Employer Awards Ceremony yesterday (22 Nov). The report found that the demand for workers with skills in the digital, green and caregiving spheres has surged in Singapore over the last four years. 

SkillsFuture Singapore, in a statement, also said that from Jan 1, 2023, Singaporeans can undergo specialised training to acquire skills in the digital, green and care industries, through a refreshed series of SkillsFuture courses.

💬 What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving econom…

[4:15 pm, 23/11/2022] +65 9226 2477: It's a start. Good initiative because the world economy will change, just how slow or quick the pace will be.

Over and above the call from govt to individual, maybe companies can be approached to nudge/expand their workforce horizons to consider upskilling and competencies development during work. Spearhead new areas of focus for their respective companies' business after returning from completion of trg or studies.

[5:13 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Education Minister Chan Chun Sing launched the second edition of the Skills Demand for the Future Economy Report at the SkillsFuture Fellowships and Employer Awards Ceremony yesterday (22 Nov). The report found that the demand for workers with skills in the digital, green and caregiving spheres has surged in Singapore over the last four years. 

SkillsFuture Singapore, in a statement, also said that from Jan 1, 2023, Singaporeans can undergo specialised training to acquire skills in the digital, green and care industries, through a refreshed series of SkillsFuture courses.

💬 What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving econom…

[5:16 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

[5:36 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: The school system is the problem. Unimaginative and rigid and too focused on tests.

[5:36 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Great to be top of the academic tables, but what about all other aspects of life?

[5:40 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Is 2 years of NS for all Males still necessary or does it inhibit career development at a critical them? Are we teaching them creative free problem solving thinking, or how to follow orders?

[5:40 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: *critical time

[5:40 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: It must be maintained for our military defence

[5:42 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Just rasing it as a question, if we are concerned about our skills in the commercial environment. Maybe 2 years for some and 1 year for others 5 be sufficient to protect us from... who exactly?

[5:43 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: *would be

[5:45 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: Mindef did adjust some time ago downwards from 2 1/2 years

[5:49 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Good to keep it in mind! 100% support NS, but wonder if 2 years is too long for some people in time critical careers.

[5:51 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: We can't afford a professional standing military so time frame for NS will affect reservist period which translate to quality and professionalism.

[5:53 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Yes,understand that. I guess we have to balance all the needs of a small nation. Can't have everything, and need to make choices.

[5:54 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Upskilling and reskilling takes time. And we need to know what skills are needed! We will have to import expertise continually because we can't cover all the bases.

[5:54 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Collaborating with universities and industry around the world is out best way to keep current.

[5:55 pm, 23/11/2022] +L or BL: Providing infrastructure and investment to industries in return for training and commitment. International training programmes so people can learn abroad.

[6:09 pm, 23/11/2022] +Rama: https://theindependent.sg/leon-perera-fires-back-chee-hong-tat-govt-decision-to-press-ahead-with-gst-hike-doesnt-embody-political-courage-sg-needs/

[6:11 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Standardised insurance for ride-hailing drivers and delivery riders regardless of hours worked

👉🏼 https://str.sg/w9Lw

5 ways to better support platform workers in Singapore: Highlights from committee report

👉🏼 https://str.sg/w9Li

Platform workers to be insured against workplace injuries, get CPF payments

👉🏼 https://str.sg/w9L5

[6:19 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢

Education Minister Chan Chun Sing launched the second edition of the Skills Demand for the Future Economy Report at the SkillsFuture Fellowships and Employer Awards Ceremony yesterday (22 Nov). The report found that the demand for workers with skills in the digital, green and caregiving spheres has surged in Singapore over the last four years. 

SkillsFuture Singapore, in a statement, also said that from Jan 1, 2023, Singaporeans can undergo specialised training to acquire skills in the digital, green and care industries, through a refreshed series of SkillsFuture courses.

💬 What are your views on current efforts to encourage Singaporeans to upskill and reskill? How can Singaporeans continue to remain competitive in the rapidly evolving econom…

[6:45 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:59 pm, 23/11/2022] +Smiley face: 23 November, 2023

To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members 

Turbulence & Uncertainty

"Mechanization to Digitization, it's all about People to People, the Will, the Wisdom and the long journey (机械化到数字化)..."

- - anonymous 

Traditional?

Hirings, Firings and Trainings, are these cycles of the workplace? 

There is always a mismatch between companies' demand for talent and the number of workers willing and suitable in each hiring situation where there is a shortage of matched labor.

The traditional ways of attracting and/or retaining people include compensation, benefits, promotions and career prospects. More clearly now than previously prior to the Covid pandemic, this medical episode has stirred people to rethink what is a job and what is life and the subsequent effects of the famous great resignation.

Refining?

To each cost comes with a benefit, or none, or hopefully more benefits? That's what many decision-makers and policymakers weigh this "resource" of either-or in hopes of attaining benefits!

Rather than betting on trainings, comparatively, what are the costs of hiring externally over deploying costs to upskill or reskill?

What is the spread between hiring to plug the gaps or deploying resources to train, job enlargement and/or job promotion?

Purposeful?

Purpose precedes pleasure!

Today skills and knowledge will become obsolete sooner all because every new found digital technology will drive new ways of doing things and enable scalings, this digital driver is the frontier and decider of all future economies (of scale) and livelihoods.

What are the purposes of upgrading or renewing skills, in particular, will these digital based training activities derived benefits and enabled productivities per unit and/or per group?

Managers must carefully evaluate, identify and apply each of these latest training modules to each employee or each department. How to measure the outcomes, the non-outcome and incremental benefits after each completed training initiative?

Don't jump onto the bandwagon of trainings? Employers have to connect the multiple dots of critical needs, wants and staffings before setting and formulating strategies and actions, this connected line is about what to upskill or to update or not at all?

People to People?

Do not overlook the dynamics of the psych of each employee mindsets and the feelings he or she is achieving or not, or is he or she enjoying the job, or a sense job security. Any lacking in one of this basic Maslow needs will topple an organisation initiatives from team sync, training to productivity.

Turbulence?

Profoundly, the current unstable geopolitics is pushing global inflation, the disrupted macro supplies to the micro demands of all tangibles. Feasibly, with costs in mind, it is wise to make use of this 'slower' time to start planning for growth and learn the latest knowledge.

What if a global recession does happen, again the firing of workers and wouldn't hirings become an attractive and immediate deployable strategy assuming there will be a bigger pool of talents ready, matching and willing to be employed/deployed within a country and/or across geographical boundaries?

    - -  in progress - -

[7:01 pm, 23/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====

REACH 412 - What are your views on the Orchard Road busking curbs? What more can be done to ensure popular spots in Singapore remain safe even with large crowds?

(SK)

21 Nov 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:46 am, 21/11/2022] +REACH: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

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Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 21/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

The National Arts Council (NAC) announced that buskers would not be allowed to perform outside seven Orchard Road malls on selected dates in December, including Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve. The busking ban will apply from 7pm to 10pm on Fridays and Saturdays outside these malls: Ion Orchard, Wisma Atria, Ngee Ann City, The Heeren, 313@Somerset, Knightsbridge and Mandarin Gallery.

The ban was recommended to the NAC by the police in light of the very large crowds expected in Orchard Road during the year-end festive celebrations and the recent Korea Itaewon incident where a deadly crowd crush claimed the lives of more than 150 revellers.

💬 What are your views on the Orchard Road busking curbs? What more can be done to ensure popular spots in Singapore remain safe even with large crowds?

The police said that the presence of buskers and ice-cream sellers (in past Decembers before COVID-19) caused pedestrians to stop and crowd around those points, which further reduced the passable space on the footpaths and further impeded the flow of people. Thus, the implementation of preventive crowd control measures is "critical". 

The police hoped for the understanding and cooperation of all stakeholders participating in, or involved in the organisation of, the year-end festivities.

In a statement posted on Facebook on Thursday, the Buskers’ Association said it was disheartened by the ban and called on the NAC, which oversees the licensing of buskers in Singapore, to reverse its decision.

The association said it has always worked with the security management of Orchard Road malls to ensure a safe distance between performers and the audience during periods of higher human traffic. The ban would also likely hurt buskers as they rely significantly on earnings from the increased footfall in December. 

📍 Year-end Orchard Road busking curbs: Crowd control measures necessary to ensure safety, say police

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/orchard-rd-busking-ban-during-festive-period-public-safety-cannot-be-taken-for-granted-says-police 

📍 Festive period crowd control measures needed at Orchard Road, public safety cannot be compromised: SPF

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/orchard-road-crowd-control-restricted-busking-during-festive-period-december-3086216 

📍 Buskers riled by year-end restrictions on performing at Orchard Road due to crowd control

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/busking-orchard-road-restrictions-booking-christmas-holidays-3079406

----

[10:23 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Did we miss out one location which is Plaza Singapura?

Just in case, more busking will converge to PS?

[10:26 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Actually they will find place with most people? They still need to the crowd for money.

[10:27 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: The busking usually nearby each… don’t really have a control.. usually they like to be near traffic lights.. so people when cross can see them. Like example 313 to Taka that corner

[10:28 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: When too many people there is way to walk around.. or stop traffic to become walking street at high peak times

[10:35 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: 21 November, 2022

To: Our Distinguished Leaders, STB, Orchard Road Business Association and All Honorable Members 

Car Lite Nites?

Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve:

Only for Christmas Eve nite and New Year's Eve nite. Any intend to close Orchard Road from the junction of Orchard Road and Scotts to the junction of Cathay?

Is this one way to accommodate and create more people walkway to include the entire stretch of Orchard Road?

Another reason is road safety even tough it will be a traffic jam nite and how about changing it to be "Car Lite nite" too?

     - - in progress - -

[10:36 am, 21/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: Good that the government is proactively looking into the crowd control wondering if they are overeating. I thought the itaewon area have more marrow streets versus orchard Road. Hope the authorities consider innovative ways to balance the festivities and  the risk. Like what we did with covid. Do something unique rather than old method of banning. I feel they need to put more effort than just banning. (Old school principal method of control)

[10:42 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Anyway is hard to grab cab at that time.. no taxi wants to go in.. might as well just provide train service… often during my younger days… I walk home 🤣🤣 

Just too hard to get a cab

[10:42 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Road close from 7pm to following day 7am.

After 4am, to facilitate cleaners to clear all consumables and litters.

[10:45 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Ken, good morning!

Let's try out a Green Christmas, this is a once in a year opportunities to let the Public trial what's Car Lite ? Also for the policymakers to Collect Data too. How about the economics from the perspective of the Orchard Road businesses, any benefits or no?

Thank you.

[10:46 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Think better planning would be good to disperse the crowd.. every year same issue… last few years I have not been out not sure lol…

[10:46 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Did it get better?

[10:47 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: With grab at ridiculous price most would take public transport but hard to get on…

[10:58 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: 21 November, 2022

What is an inclusive Fun nite out?

Pure and simple, let's soak in the vibes and fun of Christmas Eve and/or New Year's eve by letting go the past year of stress and walk? 

Please don't bring along your pets ( just in case it needs to poo and pee) and especially your loud supercars too (less noise, heat and exhaust pollution too)? Parked the (super)cars elsewhere.

What's the point of stuck in the traffic jam along Orchard Road in the slowest motion to enjoy the beautiful lightings while in the car with your family or lover or your pets? Is this an exclusive way of enjoyments, perhaps so?    

    - - in progress - -

[11:13 am, 21/11/2022] +Grace: I think unlike the narrow streets of Itaewon, Orchard Road shd be ok

[11:17 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Yup.. unlikely to happen.. and cars are slower during that period.. and many drivers avoid the area

[11:17 am, 21/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: Remind people to clear their rubbish is best 🤣

[11:17 am, 21/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: LIke the japanese does

[11:17 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: 21 November, 2022

The Korea lessons?

One big pain and lessons from the recent Korea stampede is human to human jamming!

When an emergency arises there is no way to intervene because there is no room for emergency vehicles to enter the  stressed area, precious time wasted and where are the emergency equipments and tools?

Local?

In Orchard Road, should there be an emergency, where are the pockets of helps, entry and exit points to quicken the rescue leadtime and timeline? The entire Orchard Road is traffice jammed!

Besides the usual SPF presence to control crowds and order, will there be ambulances (firefighters) and medical personnel stationed at strategic points to just in case situation arises? Perhaps, it's all planned.

It's all about securing safety and having carefree fun!

     - - in progress - -

[11:18 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Jimmy,

One good responsible thing to do!

Thank you.

[11:20 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps can consider staggered timing on some days

[11:21 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi uncle Law, good morning!

Welcome back!

Thank you.

[11:21 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Time slot first come first serve

[11:25 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Are there designated areas for them to perform?

[11:25 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: I'm not so familiar with the regulation

[11:25 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Staggered timing might affect their income.. and might not be effective slots

[11:26 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: And raining they might also want to have other timings

[11:26 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: Daily apply would be good.. but not practical for the busker 😅

[11:27 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Weather can't be help. Same as those industry which can't work when the weather is bad

[11:28 am, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: When you choose to work in the outdoor, your worst enemy is weather, which somehow is not controllable

[11:29 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: If indoor think possible.. 

outdoor a bit hard. 

Some busker are full time. And might not be IT savvy. 

Then need additional manpower to handle the control. Not sure is it a effective way to control them.

[11:30 am, 21/11/2022] +Ken: The amount of busker on the street is it high enough to warrant resource to manage them 😅

[11:32 am, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Ken, important point!

Wet Weather is one decider of unforseeable!

Thank you.

[0:08 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today’s topic 😊

We hope that we can keep the discussion related to the topic robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[0:50 pm, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: 21 November, 2022

Using Technologies and Aerial Survillances?

Flying high?

Existing streets and traffic CCTV systems may not be sufficient in a highly congested area to real-time controlling all situations?

Four drone command posts starting from Tangs, NAC, Orchard Central and PS. These launching posts can be at the rooftop of each identified building.

The objectives are to monitor crowd size, formation & congestion and traffic flow within and fringe of the targeted areas to include roads and alley.

Using QR codes along Orchard Road for public to feedback on any essential matters.

A central information centre to coordinate feedbacks on live and online with personnel on sites, foot patrol and drones.

It's all about SAFETY and having an enjoyable nite with zero incident!     

    - - in progress - -

[0:58 pm, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Accuracy and Numeracy?

"Draw" the entire Orchard Road into drone parameters.

These parameters will have accurate measurements of the number of people within a 50 square meter and so on moving like a conveyor belt.

Two the QR codes will have two way communication that is to establish a voice and or live video situational reporting, just in case there is an urgent need to assess such micro incidents.

The physical location of this person report will also be known.

No intrusion of privacy, all for the benefits of public safety!

[1:57 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Overcrowding and safety

1. Firstly, overcrowding is indeed a safety issue. 

I recently noticed that large crowd, especially weekend in the shopping malls can potentially trigger mishaps if overcrowding occur.

For eg., notice that some elderly, or some families who are holding hands of young children - are unable to clear the escalator going up or down - and people on escalator from behind feel that they are being blocked - and could cause accidents.

Imagine if overcrowding occurs, it could result in stampede.

2. Hence I will believe NAC concern about overcrowding at Orchard roads during the festive seasons is a real concern - especially the pedestrian path though wide - if overcrowded - can cause people to be push out onto the roads and cause accidents.

Also if buskers perform, people instead of moving- will jam the sites - causing people going into Orchard road to get stuck - and could trigger stampede if overcrowded.

[1:57 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Technology to monitor crowds

1. However, I will like to suggest the Government use technologies to monitor crowd level during the festive seasons - not only on the road in Orchard Road but also in popular shopping malls.

2. A technology that is particularly useful - to accurately map population number and densities to floor areas - are RF signals that are log to the Telco base stations.

I recall during covid time - an apps "SpaceOut" used the above technique to monitor and map out the crowd density to floor spaces in shopping areas, even in forested areas like parks --- to help to inform public and authorities the crowd densities per monitored areas.

I feel that similar "SpaceOut" apps - can be used to monitor crowd buildup in Orchard road during festive seasons - and broadcast in mainstream news, social media and other sources --- to inform people not to go to Orchard if signs of overcrowding occur.

MRT, - which is the major conduit of transporting people to Orchard road - should also prevent boarding to Orchard road -if "SpaceOut" discovered overcrowding.

Because as more people crowd the Orchard areas, telco base station syslog or access logs - will have an overwhelming RF handshake and record entries from the smartphones - accurately indicating the numbler of people in the areas - and the road densities will not be able to accomodate.

3. Another technology - which is the CCTV along the Orchard areas and shopping malls with video analytics and AI - will be able to pick up people faces and do a count - and map against floor areas --- to determine whether overcrowding occurs.

4. Some people may suggest using drone to monitor the crowd - but may not be a good idea due to safety concern - as flying drone can lose control and drop out from the sky onto the crowd or vehicles.

Thought that drones shouldn't operate in crowded areas.

 

[2:01 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Previous example of space out to monitor crowd densities - during covid.

[2:01 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

The National Arts Council (NAC) announced that buskers would not be allowed to perform outside seven Orchard Road malls on selected dates in December, including Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve. The busking ban will apply from 7pm to 10pm on Fridays and Saturdays outside these malls: Ion Orchard, Wisma Atria, Ngee Ann City, The Heeren, 313@Somerset, Knightsbridge and Mandarin Gallery.

The ban was recommended to the NAC by the police in light of the very large crowds expected in Orchard Road during the year-end festive celebrations and the recent Korea Itaewon incident where a deadly crowd crush claimed the lives of more than 150 revellers.

💬 What are your views on the Orchard Road busking curbs? What more can be done to ensure popular spots …

[2:04 pm, 21/11/2022] +Poh S. Lim: Well thought out, Danny. Good points made.

[2:22 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/emergency-mrt-station-causes-concerns-about-potential-stampede-mrt-says-staff-deployed

Emergency' at MRT station causes concerns about potential stampede, SMRT says staff deployed to control crowd.

[2:42 pm, 21/11/2022] +Smiley face: Prohibited items?

sparkling sticks, fire crackers, glass bottles, sales and consumption of alcohols while walking, standing or sitting, pepper spray.

[2:59 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Busker incomes

1. Next buskers' income come into mind.

2. Some buskers are doing full-time busking - and rely on busking during festive period to earn a few month income.

3. While some buskers are doing part-time busking - to supplement their full-time jobs or students doing busking to earn some pocket money.

4. Honestly, unless there is a big open field at Orchard road - carve out into modular spaces for buskers to perform - rather than allowing them to do busking on busy pedestrian path and block crowd movement that could cause stampede or spill onto the roads - there are no other  ways to allow busking during festive seasons.

5. Wonder is there a big field space at Orchard road - that allow to do busking performance safely except Isatana?

I only worry that if Istana is open up for busking - will it affect the decorum and prestige of Presdient House.

[3:21 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Defeats the whole idea of busking if need designated areas like a field. Busking serves to promote livening up the atmosphere of a street scene and not for providing incomes to buskers solely

[3:22 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then busking need to take a back seat - if overcrowding do happen - whereby safety is paramount.

[3:23 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Can lah. Just perhaps manage the crowd or control during festive times

[3:24 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

NAC say cannot woh.

[3:24 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Guess this is a precaution after the Seoul incident

[3:25 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Selected dates mah. Isn't it?

[3:25 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Don't understand ...

[3:25 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes it is.

Recently I noticed crowd in shopping areas very high

[3:26 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: NAC only not allowing on selected dates for selected locations no?

[3:26 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Expect crowd control measures till lunar new year

[3:26 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hmmm...

That means you agree with nac arrangement.

But buskers not happy - they say it hit their income.

[3:27 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If safety is concern, I don't mind.

[3:27 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: I only can say info should have come out sooner

[3:28 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Cannot please everybody mah. Buskers should understand why mah. Afterall it's give & take. Public safety comes first

[3:28 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Then I got no disagreement with you.

[3:32 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: That may be the case but better to be safe than sorry.  My heart still goes out to the performers who were short changed by no advance notice!

[3:32 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Actually busking started as a form of outlets for artistes to practise their art as well as entertainment and earning some extra income as a side. The income part shouldn't be the priority

[3:32 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

There are some full time buskers who only rely on busking for a living.

[3:33 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: I don't agree on the income not being of concern!

[3:33 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: If income is their priority then they should do their gigs in the entertainment joints

[3:33 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Festive season is in Dec.

Now mid November - 2 weeks advance notice.

[3:33 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Maybe you should be in their shoes!?

[3:34 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Ya no harm in that and they have the whole year to do that save that few periods no?

[3:34 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I agree and can emphatise with them.

Thus I suggest using open field.

[3:35 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well I can't say on their behalf.

Let the buskers who got direct hit - say for themselves.

[3:39 pm, 21/11/2022] +Simon: Ya open field but will the crowd go there just to watch? I mean other than the cathay location will one intentionally travel to a specific location just to watch their performance? So I'm sure this will not please the buskers as well

[3:41 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why, both NAC and the buskers should sit down and talk.

1. Address safety.

2. Address busking income.

--- come out with a win win solutions - acceptable to both parties addressing the 2 concerns.

[4:40 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today’s topic 😊

We hope that we can keep the discussion related to the topic robust and active! 

Megan 😊

[4:54 pm, 21/11/2022] +Wai Xin: Control to avoid stampede is inevitable when the tragedy in Korea is something that may happen here. From the authority perspective they don't want to be caught in a cross fire when stampede actually happens. As one life lost to stampede is already one life too many.

But busking is not the only cause of concern, even without buskers, the merlion near jubilee bridge is already a place pack with crowd and tourists. 

As for busking, perhaps the venue can be shift indoors and let buskers become artists in mall. this will allow them to earn an income, maintain the festive spirit, but the care will have to pass on to the mall operators to prevent crowding.

[5:38 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Busking indoors at this time frame is too late to consider.

[5:39 pm, 21/11/2022] +Uncle Law: Perhaps more manpower to assist in crowd control

[5:40 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: This is another headache!  Manpower crunch every where during festive season

[5:41 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: It takes more than This!

[5:56 pm, 21/11/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Shopping mall usually lease out the space for a fees.

I don't think they give it out free for buskers.

Also need to decorate the place cost money, arrange security so many  entry and exit, control crowd etc 

Also need authority clearance - time I think is short.

[5:56 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Agree

[6:00 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

The National Arts Council (NAC) announced that buskers would not be allowed to perform outside seven Orchard Road malls on selected dates in December, including Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve. The busking ban will apply from 7pm to 10pm on Fridays and Saturdays outside these malls: Ion Orchard, Wisma Atria, Ngee Ann City, The Heeren, 313@Somerset, Knightsbridge and Mandarin Gallery.

The ban was recommended to the NAC by the police in light of the very large crowds expected in Orchard Road during the year-end festive celebrations and the recent Korea Itaewon incident where a deadly crowd crush claimed the lives of more than 150 revellers.

💬 What are your views on the Orchard Road busking curbs? What more can be done to ensure popular spots …

[6:45 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[6:56 pm, 21/11/2022] +GLCM: I'm curious if the Buskers Assoc had any inputs to alleviate the crowding issues.

Probably a dialogue to generate more ideas ahead of other upcoming festive seasons can provide alternatives.

[6:58 pm, 21/11/2022] +Rama: Did NAC dialogue with them prior to the sudden announcement after request to halt performance as requested by spf!?

[6:59 pm, 21/11/2022] +Brandon Lin: My humble view on the ban on busking curbs during festive celebrations: 

The ban will definitely be saddened by those who husk for a living. I felt, crowd controlling during festive seasons is important. The itaewon incident is one such lesson learnt. However, there’s always alternatives for those buskers. Perhaps allocating specific space for them to do so where crowds can still gather and also have the space to move about. Allocation can be discussed with the Malls operator to specify the spaces for the buskers.

As for large crowd control, during festive seasons and when we expect large crowd to gather, perhaps more security officers can be deployed on the ground to survey and monitor the situation. It’s really difficult to predict when and where the crowds would gather together. So planning can be done with the Orchard association and mall operators on this. To mark out where are the Red zones or Danger zones should large crowd occurs and prone to dangers should evacuation is required. The same applies to Concerts or large scale event organising. Just that in public spaces, it will be difficult to predict where it will occurs.

So in orchard road or anywhere else where large crowds May occurs during festive seasons, the necessary authorities should work with different agencies and the Mall operators to cooperate on the crowd management rather than just ban buskers without any comments.

[7:01 pm, 21/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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