REACH 395 - What are your views on flexible work arrangements, including four-day work weeks?
(SK)
14 Sep 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:55 am, 14/09/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[10:00 am, 14/09/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
Employers and employees in Singapore are strongly encouraged to be open to flexible work arrangements, including four-day work weeks, said Minister of State for Manpower Gan Siow Huang in Parliament on Tuesday.
She added: "As with any work arrangement, a four-day work week may work well for some employers and employees, but not others.
💬 What are your views on flexible work arrangements, including four-day work weeks?
"So far, results appear to be mixed. Some of the key concerns that stakeholders have include the impact on productivity, business costs, and employee well-being," said Ms Gan.
She added that while productivity improvements have been reported in some cases, this depends on the sector and job type.
"In some instances, reduced work hours have had to be compensated by hiring more labour," said Ms Gan.
👉🏻https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/employers-staff-urged-be-open-to-flexible-work-arrangements-including-4-day-work-week
👉🏻https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/4-day-work-week-flexible-work-arrangements-employers-mindset-2934531
👉🏻https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/restaurants-4-day-work-week-challenge-staff-shortage-benefits-2888946
----
[10:02 am, 14/09/2022] +Uncle Law: If no need to answer calls or reply email on off day, I think is gd
[10:03 am, 14/09/2022] +Caleb: Public Service got to take the lead, and offer this for suitable positions
[10:03 am, 14/09/2022] +Uncle Law: Employer expects you to answer and reply email or calls during off days
[10:29 am, 14/09/2022] +Ah Heng: already working from home is a problem for company and employee now 4 day week -> very much expected compensation package will be much affected cos govt can only advise cannot enforce
[10:39 am, 14/09/2022] +~N: I'm extremely concerned about ONEP. Can there be a conversation on this topic?
[10:50 am, 14/09/2022] +Caleb: What's onep
[10:51 am, 14/09/2022] +~N: Overseas Network & Expertise Pass
[10:52 am, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: ONEP salary $30k monthly
[10:52 am, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: What is good performance job for?
[10:53 am, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Is he or she can bring in Singapore upbeat economic growth?
[10:54 am, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: What about our contribution’s nation people of Singaporean?
[10:58 am, 14/09/2022] +Ah Heng: this 30k includes allowances blah blah
[10:58 am, 14/09/2022] +Ah Heng: many expats can easily hit 30k with all in
[10:59 am, 14/09/2022] +Ah Heng: put if just based on base pay well 30k is quite alot and can be a middle stake holder of an organisation not just some small fly mamager
[10:59 am, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: $30k man make in Singapore
[11:06 am, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Basic… without allowance
[11:17 am, 14/09/2022] +65 9661 0607: Very selective sectors of the economy can implement this. Need to assess the pros and costs. Work life balance!?
[11:17 am, 14/09/2022] +65 9661 0607: Agree
[11:57 am, 14/09/2022] +SL: Suppose the weekly working hour maintains as 40 hrs. Each day is 10 hrs. Let's assume the work hour is 8.30 am to 6.30- 7.30 pm. Will other services going to support seniors or children's daycare by changing their operating hours? How about eatery and mall operating hours? Are they going to adjust accordingly?
[11:59 am, 14/09/2022] +SL: It would be nice if the weekly working hour reduced to 32 hours in conjunction with four days' work for the current level of salary (inflation-adjusted).
[0:02 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: What is the ultimate target outcome anticipated or to achieve for four days of work? An alternative consideration is 2-3 days of work from the office and the remaining days working from home instead.
[0:04 pm, 14/09/2022] +KSFoong: Would u agree to Cut 25% pay ? 😜
[0:05 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: 🤣 cut pay affect all future financial transaction with banks.
[0:11 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: +1
Esp abt allowing their spouses and family members to work without restrictions !!
What r we paying the main income earner Big Bucks for?
With the 30k per mth, he/she can comfortably afford to support more than 4 mouths in a family.
Some of our local SG families are currently struggling to even earn 3k (10% of 30k) a mth and hv to support family. (example comparison)
Why must such privilege be given to the spouse of the ONEP holder?
Straightaway, I can spot the abuse of this privilege tt ppl wl take advantage of , as I m sure many of us here in this forum can see.
Why can't the MOM / GSH (Minister) see this?
Another qn:
Wher / How is the transfer of skill / knowledge gg to happen ?
[0:12 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: We had alredi objected to the addl privilege of allowing the ONEP spouse to work ' freely' in our last discussion on this.
I m very disappointed tt our feedback was not taken into consideration.
[0:19 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Which sectors r we looking at wher such bigshot talent is so critically needed?
Suggest tt the ONEP be limited to specific sectors ?
In this way, other sectors wl not be so greatly impacted by the cost nor be allowed to abuse this privilege, etc., bearing in mind u r encouraging them to bring their whole family, whole jing gang along to compete w our local workforce?
[0:20 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: It's a minimum fixed monthly salary of $30,000 per month. Allowances (if any) are no lt relevant.
[0:21 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Allowing their whole jing gang to work freely is a threat to our own labour force, thereby creating new problems.
😠
[0:23 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Valid observation.
So far, no one has mentioned ...
4-day work week = pay cut too?
Or 4-day work week but same salary?
🤔
[0:24 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: This is a common misconception - that expats are rolling around in cash - and it's simply not true. The "expat packages" which you regularly hear about don't exist any more.
Private sector housing has increased 50-100% in price since Covid started. Most schools charge $25-30k per child per year.
I know many "well paid" expats who are struggling to cover their costs here and are planning to leave.
[0:25 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Very good to see Singapore Gov raising this as a topic. I like the recognition that it can work for some and not others ie.- not a fixed rule. Companies should advertise if they offer flexible working, inc 4 day week when they recruit and also promote conversation inside the company for existing employees. Company should be transparent with people about the impact to their careers, eg - management cannot expect to work 4 day week, if that is what fits for that company. There should be fines for companies that penalise the workers for reduced or flexible working if it is not stated in their company policy handbook.
[0:26 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Yes, and I know many who have already left. 2 kids in international school can cost 4-5k a month++
[0:28 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Good idea
[0:28 pm, 14/09/2022] +Caleb: Or 4 day work week, with longer working hours per day.
[0:28 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Hiring more labour is good. Maybe some people prefer 1 job 2 days a week and another job 3 days a week. The variety might be good for mental health.
[0:29 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: That's true too - more flexibility.
[0:30 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: Yup, this compares to $300 per month in local school but practically expats cannot send their kids to local schools.
Many will say "so what" but in the UK or Oz that schooling would be free. So expats get the benefit of lower tax than their home country but have significantly higher costs which balance against that.
A 30 year old single person will be infinitely better financially in SG than UK or OZ but a 40 year old married person with three years will probably be worse off.
[0:33 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: $300? I'm sure I don't pay that... and Expats can send their kids to local schools, but they are bottom of the list and may not get the choice/location they want.
[0:33 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Expats can also rent HDB, but most choose not to.
[0:34 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Yes, hard to say about the comparison between 30 year old and 40 year old, depends on salary I guess
[0:37 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Process reengineering (replacing lost manhours in the productivity and number of the workforce) for each function in a business (especially those in high demand and fast turnaround industry)is deemed an important pre-existing condition for a shorter working hour to be successful.
[0:40 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Alternate source of the workforce in neighboring regions and deployment of AI is always an option for business owners.
[0:40 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: If you take the first school on the list (Admiralty Secondary) a Singaporean pays $5 per month, a PR pays $440 per month and an expat pays $1600 per month, so at almost $20k per year its definitely cheaper but not much.
[0:42 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: oh, wasn't aware, thanks!
[0:43 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: The ages is maybe irrelevant, the point I'm making is that educating kids in singapore is very expensive.
As said above, there is a common myth that white collar expats are rolling around in money.
I know lots of expats that would love to stay in Singapore but are leaving because they can't afford the recent rent increases and high school costs.
[0:56 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Yes, I understand.
[1:01 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Oops didn’t read the context 🤣
[1:03 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Yes cause teachers are not cheap. We need them paid well in order to educate our future generation.
I do see the difference is quality between us and Malaysia. Don’t pick too far away. Just a bridge difference quality student are at totally different level,
[1:04 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: The MOM requires that any foreigner issued a work pass must have a role that a Singaporean is not available to do. Pretty much all white collar expats that I know work for international conglomerates and work for the regional business (i.e. doing work regionally rather than specifically for the SG business). Those people could be located in HK, KL, BKK etc but they are located in Singapore because we have a nice environment for them to live in.
They generate direct revenue to Singapore through tax and indirect through spending.
It's worth also bearing in mind that at a fixed monthly salary of $30,000 (which I still think is a crazy amount) this new work pass holder would generate approximately $53,000 in tax revenue. Because of our regressive tax system, a person earning the average Singapore salary which is around $4,680 would generate approximately $2,000 in tax revenue.
Whilst some people might think it's unfair that these people earn what they do, it's better for Singapore and Singaporeans to have them here than in our neighbouring countries. On direct taxation alone, we would require 25 people earning the average annual salary to generate the same tax revenue for the government (or would need to increase everyone's tax to fill the shortfall).
[1:04 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: They expat study here… they don’t convert to be part of us, of course we charge them to study here.
Incentive to convert to singaporean. We have lots of resources for education here. Just that singaporean don’t feel that we do, as it becomes a norm here.
[1:06 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: To be fair most singaporean don’t pay income tax.
Those that pay earn relatively decent.
[1:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: Better for us that someone else pays!!
[1:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Someone that earn about 70k and have kid. Don’t have to pay income tax at all.
[1:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Annual”
[1:09 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: The important part is if the company willing to keep such talent in Singapore relatively the team that work under that person won’t be too bad either.
[1:10 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Revenue and Capex… how much need to be earn to hire such a person?
[1:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: Sorry autocorrect! PROgressive tax system.
[1:43 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Impact on Economic competitiveness
1. Economically, Singapore need to be competitive and productive vis-a-vis economic competition with overseas Countries.
2. If Singapore many businesses adopt 4 days work week versus overseas Countries who are adopting 5 days work week - then we will lose our business to overseas competitors and our GDP will fall as we don't work on Fri to produce economic output (goods and services).
3. Eg. If our business work from Mon to Thu, whereas overseas Countries work from Mon to Fri - we lose 1 day (Fri) of work for the whole Economy ---- how many billion of dollars we have lost per year?
[1:51 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: taxable income of 30k need to pay 200.
[1:52 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: To IRAS
[1:52 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: So cheap $200
[1:53 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Not possible for salary worker
[1:53 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: 2%
[1:55 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: AI = annual income right $30k
If ONEP $30k monthly is AI = $360k
[1:55 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: The deductible on - own + cpf + donation (250%) + others not possible to have 50k deductible from 70k and resulted in 20k taxable income. Below 20k is zero tax.
[1:56 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Annual taxable income
[1:56 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: I think the idea is to have flexibility, not the whole country to stop working on Friday.
[1:58 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Operational impact
Public Service
1. Assume Government work 4 day weeks - and let us assess the impact on public service :-
a. If Public Service work from Mon-Thu, then public will have no access to public service from Fri, Sat and Sun.
Imagine public need services for their CPF, road tax, court service, police work, nurses and doctors in public hospitals, maintenance facilities, etc that can't be done online.
Will it be acceptable for public to wait out on Fri, Sat and Sun - before getting service from public service?
Can sick people wait out from Fri, Sat, Sun and see doctors on Mon to Thu?
b. Public Service has been increasing the salaries of civil servants - which must commensurate with output produce. Can a shorter work days and the associate economic output demand the higher salaries?
c. So it is a relief that the Government will not experiment or pilot 4 days work week.
[1:59 pm, 14/09/2022] +KSFoong: Let’s also be fair to the employer! What consideration do we have for employers’ part? At the end of it is who need who more!
[2:00 pm, 14/09/2022] +KSFoong: 4 days work week does not come without costs! Who will foot the bill?
[2:02 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Omg ... 🤦🏼♀️
Imagine Polyclinics, Healthcare , vital public services affected.
Sick on Fri-Sun. No professional help.
Die liao ! (pun intended)
😱
[2:03 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Assume the 360k (annual) is taxable without deductable as not tax resident (60 days and abv), the person need to pay 15% or 22% tax (which ever is higher)
[2:03 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
d. Assuming Government want to keep public service open from Mon-Sat to service the public - but with a 4 days work week.
This means Government will need to employ double the staff to keep public service open for 6 days in a 4 days work week.
e. So should a salary increase to civil servants justified?
f. This mean taxpayers will have to foot higher salaries for the staff - for a 2-shift public service - double the salaries --- meaning public will have to pay more taxes - eg. higher GST, income tax etc.
g. How is the 4 days work week make Singapore competitive?
[2:03 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Otherwise, 360k (without deductable) will be tax accordingly to tax resident status
[2:04 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Alredi hv manpower shortage.
A 4-day work week wl need MORE, not less workers, esp if the biz runs on shift work.
[2:05 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Product/service price increase?
[2:05 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Why we singaporean got to do with ONEP is he or she has high capital requirements professional
[2:06 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Human has error no one perfect
[2:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Is it man make in Singapore and pay high their professional. Can he or she creation everything?
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: My take is tt the ONEP shd Not be on a Long Term basis
Wat I mean is u can propose this but say hv a time limit of , say, 3 years, to review it ?
Rather than create this and then leave it ther forever.
Wat I'm trying to say is :
By having the ONEP is to atrract skilled professional talent here to help start, train, coach, complement our local work teams.
In say, 3 years, our loc workforce shd be competent enuff to be promoted & fill the very roles tt the ONEP was brought in for.
In other words, the ONEP shd be seen as a Temporary stepping stone, Not to be taken advantage of , or used as an excuse to replace capable, more able local talent.
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: I think the point Gov was making was that flexible working is appropriate sometimes and not others, so we should be open to it where it makes sense. Not to force it onto business where it doesn't fit.
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +KSFoong: Does it means those establishments, business, services will only serve their customers for 4 days? Do the public prepare for the reduction of service hours? If not, these establishments would have to hire additional staff to cover these lost hours. I do not expect these business owners will absorb the costs. What will they do? Either close or transfer these costs to condumers!
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: People can then aim for jobs in companies that offer it, or not, depending on their own preferences.
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: We cannot keep saying :
"Cannot find talent in our local labour force..."
[2:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: I have seemed EP and SP has mid level skill they doing operator nothing is creation
[2:16 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: I ask a question imagine can ONEP create like movie “back to the future” car can fly?
[2:16 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Impossible
[2:17 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Back to company mindset ...
Need to change.
Must make local hiring a Priority.
Must prove the need for ONEP.
Gov must hv monitoring & review procedures in place to ensure ther is no abuse or mis use of this privilege.
👆🏻I dun see any info on this so far.
How is the MOM gg to ensure fair practice in this context ?
[2:20 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Not now, perhaps.
But alredi hv jetpack power for us to fly for short distances .. .. so flying cars and floating homes may be possible, altho may not be in our lifetime.
Travelling bk in time ... Dun think so tho. 😅😅😅
[2:22 pm, 14/09/2022] +Frankie Wee: Maybe I think our contributions go pay ONEP for creation future in Singapore and outlook economy growth
[2:24 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Operational impact
Business Service
1. Similarly for business who want to adopt 4 days work week.
2. As a business partner, I will expect the business to provide me service Mon-Fri even though a business want to adopt 4 days work week.
I don't care if your staff don't work on Fri - but if I need your service on Fri and you expect me to wait until Mon - will cause my work or project to be delayed - then I will not want your service - and instead go for your competitors that can offer me the service.
3. So business who adopt a 4 days work week - will have to employ 2 shift staff or 1 full time shift and 1 part-time shift staff - to keep their business going.
This means additional business cost to the business .
Business need to stay alive in a very competitive envrionment - wonder which business will want to increase their business cost just to adopt 4 days work week?
4, There could be some business who like the trend and hips about 4 days work week - to attract workers --- and I believe the government shouldn't stop such a practice if the business find that this is how they want to conduct their business.
Ultimately, the key is business survivial. If business can survive in a high-cost 4 days work week - Government should not stop them.
Market forces will decide whether 4 days work week - work for such business as well as for the workers who crave for 4 days work week.
Business in a 4 days work week will have to decide whether they will pay higher salaries to the workers who demand 4 days work week - and whether the business can still survive - ultimately market forces will determine the "moment of truth".
5. For example, customers are demanding banking services, retail services and other business to operate even on Sat and Sun (not to mention 4 days work week).
In malls, we have already be seeing banks opening on Sat and Sun until 7 pm - to fight for customers --- which I believe the banks are operating 2 staff shift.
The business cost for such banks are high - but their business are good to cover the higher cost.
So unless a 4 days week business has similar business model - market forces will decide if the 4 days work week workable for business.
6. Finally, I feel that our Government should not mandate a 4 days work week - but let business decide on their merits. Ultimately market forces will determine if 4 days work week is viable for their business.
Also business will determine if they will employ workers who want 4 days work week or want to pay higher salaries for those who ask for 4 days work week.
---
[2:25 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: All good points, this is for the business to work out. If it doesn't work for them then they don't do it. Each business is different. Some it makes sense, some it doesn't. There will be infinite examples each way.
[2:27 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/unknowingly-consuming-drugs-overseas-usually-not-an-offence-shanmugam
Unknowingly consuming drugs overseas usually not an offence: Shanmugam.
In Thailand, even tomyam soup, chocolate, candies - the food sellers lace it with cannabis or "Da Ma".
[2:32 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Thanks for clarifying this!
[2:59 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: You have a lot of rebate… if you have kids, wife, served NS. Etc
[3:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: 14 September, 2022
"The Denormalization of The Workplace"
Unintended Alternatives?
Will there be some that would 'daylighting' for competitor or conflict of interest (aka moonlighting) happened out of this 4 days WW?
[3:09 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: Ther must be flw up & accountability on the part of the Gov to ensure this scheme is properly executed and gives us the results we wanted.
[3:09 pm, 14/09/2022] +RH: And a 'back door' for us to exit fr this scheme if it does not work out.
[3:10 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: How to have so many high level executive?
Local so easy to find we won’t be looking outwards…
[3:11 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: If they back door… also need to pay income tax as foreigner…
How many 30k back door can anyone afford? Does it makes sense? 😅
Already say is gross no allowance or commission based
[3:32 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: Foreign Talents Model:
We should be awared of the current geopolitical unrest and the migration of wealth and talents that accompany such an existential trends. They may arrive from Europe, Hong Kong, South Korea, China and other countries.
The basic compensation is $360,000.00 annually with children education and,/or accomodations allowances or none, before bonuses (plus shares option).
The total compensation of such a talent can amount to $1,000,000.00 or in multiples in a good year?
What's the economics advantages to the company and country? What's the multiplier effects thereon?
[3:33 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: Singdollar emerges as Asia's best performer: Will it continue to stay strong amid USD rise?
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/singdollar-emerges-as-asias-best-outperformer-against-greenbacks-relentless-rise
Safe Haven!
[3:44 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
If Singapore workers think we can slack and companies will still employ them - this is the moment of truth.
[3:45 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Depends on how much you relied on them… when language is an issue.. people still preferred local. Or Atleast English with min accent
[3:45 pm, 14/09/2022] +Ken Loh: Unless dictate by HQ
[3:46 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Companies won't hesitate to employ remote workers who are cheaper, and more hardworking never mind the 4 days work week don't apply to them.
[3:50 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: Let talents come in (不怕你来，就怕你不来).
[3:53 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: 14 September, 2022
"Geography explains the policies of all the Powers."
- - Napoleon
Migration:
Mankind history was largely storied on migrations. At end of the Ice Age came mass migrations and the flourished continent of Asia from the middle east to India and to China. What a vast geography with social and political significance. Cities formed and cities ended and people moved to elsewhere, so similar to now! People moved to safer places away from calamities both natural and man creates.
[4:49 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
My close friend comments:-
Before anyone asks for 4-day work week, pls be prepared employers ask you for 20% pay cut...
If you can work from home, someone else from another part of the world can also do your job.
What if he/she can do it better than you and at a lower cost?
Be careful of what you ask for... the world may be heading for a severe recession.
[4:49 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-energy-crisis-inflation-recession-risk-winter-russia-supply-blackrock-2022-9
[4:52 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Benefits in kind for the talent; some are taxable, some are not.
[4:52 pm, 14/09/2022] +L or BL or Locker: Tax, secondary spend, infrastructure etc
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Tech workers left hanging as Sea e-commerce arm Shopee rescinds job offers. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/singapore-e-commerce-shopee-sea-rescind-job-offers-2022-2922961
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Foodpanda cuts jobs in Singapore as part of move towards profitability.
More Big Tech cutting jobs ................. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/foodpanda-cuts-jobs-singapore-move-towards-profitability-2925286
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/food-delivery-firm-foodpanda-lays-off-staff-in-singapore-retrenchment-reportedly-affects-about-60
Food delivery firm foodpanda lays off staff in Singapore, retrenchment reportedly affects about 60.
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEBQHXoYAUfje1Wv0u2b6lKcqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMJuWxwU?uo=CAUiANIBAA&hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen
China gaming crackdown: ByteDance cuts ‘hundreds of jobs’ from its video game operations in Shanghai and Hangzhou, sources say.
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://theindependent.sg/foodpanda-retrenches-60-staff-netizens-ask-why-retrenchments-come-just-after-opening-brand-new-regional-office-in-singapore/
foodpanda retrenches 60 staff; Netizens ask why retrenchments come just after opening brand-new regional office in Singapore.
[4:55 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
'Certainly a risk' of US recession, says Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/certainly-risk-us-recession-says-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-2932136
[4:56 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: The exchange rate is not the priority of the ultra-rich to consider the suitable country to deposit their assets. It is the security of their assets, transaction movement, and liquidity.
[4:58 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Typically a Solution architect is expected to generate five times the salary earned.
[5:01 pm, 14/09/2022] +Poh S. Lim: Official 4-day work work week should be fine so long as we can do the following:
1. Allow industries to have flexibility to set their own hours according to operational requirements but still remunerate at market rates or better e.g. assembly linear
2. Automate or allow self-service for many daily needs e.g. banking
3. Increase and/or promote healthy alternative activities for the discretionary time now freed to workers
4. Ensure no one is disadvantaged in compensation arising from the shorter working hours
[5:02 pm, 14/09/2022] +Poh S. Lim: *factory assembly lines
[5:02 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: The last sentence is a concern; from open source information, this is a relatively hot topic in markets. SOFR will officially replace LIBOR next year. This is an added risk to the market condition.
[5:05 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: Hi SL, you got it rite, those considerations mentioned perhaps equal to a STABLE currency!
In this highly volatile situations, finding a safe haven to park one's wealth?
Migrations of wealth?
[5:07 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: The payment gateway is also a consideration. Addition risks such as those generated by Switzerland increased the risks for the ultra rich to deposit their assets there.
[5:09 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: There was no real safe haven on highly volatile markets at this moment without paying some prices.
[5:10 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: Luxembourg?
[5:10 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: and taking the risks
[5:13 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Business pay their workers according to the output produce.
If workers who works on a 4 days week but produce lesser output than workers who work 5 days week - then the 4 days week workers will be expected to fetch a lower salary than the 5 days weeks workers.
Business are started to make profit and not to do charity.
If Singaporean workers are not productive, more costly and less competitive compared to foreign workers - then we will expect local workers to lose their jobs or get pay less.
Singapore business is not only competing locally but also with foreign competitors.
[5:16 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Geographically, this country is surrounded by Belgium, France, and Germany. It got so many dependencies and factors for an asset management team to consider putting core assets there based on customers' preferable priorities.
[5:17 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/sVI1_Amq9Po
[5:18 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore is an open economy.
We cannot make ourselves uncompetitive by closing our borders and hype up our workers salary without productivity growth.
Because local customers or overseas customers will punish our business - if our products and services are not competitive.
[5:23 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
To quote an example, a person try to get a 6 figure quotation for a job from a business partner.
But despite numerous messages and even phone calls, the business partner staff did not answer on a Friday working day.
That person finally call up the partner competitor who quote similar competitive price with better service.
Not only that business partner lose that 6 figure business, in future, it has a strong competitor bidding for the same business.
So can government just mandate 4 days week and customers will just accept?
Market forces will determine the 4 days week is good for business or not.
Not whether we want and mandate.
Ultimately, if business fail, local workers get retrenchment.
This is the moment of truth.
[5:24 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Finally that staff call back on the next Monday.
The customer say enjoy your holiday but I have awarded the business to your competitor.
[5:52 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. In case a layman don't understand what productivity means, let see a simple example.
2. One worker work 5 days week and produce 1000 durians a month.
I pay him $2000 a month.
I can sell 1000 durians at $10 each earning $10,000 and make a profit of $8,000.
3. Another worker work a 4 days week and produce 700 durians.
I can only sell at $7,000.
Do you expect me to pay this worker $2,000 and I only make $5,000 profit?
4. Even paying him $1,000 will make my profit smaller at $6,000.
5. I rather employ the 1st worker.
6. So a business is not a charity - means mandate 4 days week, equal salary means business must comply.
Or you think charge $20 a durian when customer can get at $10 - will customer buy - just to satisfy a 4 days work week?
[5:58 pm, 14/09/2022] +Timothy Low: 4 days work week can be implemented in a rotational basis.
Eg, worker A and B are in the same department. Both can cover for each other whenever the other person is on leave.
I have a friend who works in a company that gives them a day off every two weeks. Whenever he is on day off, his colleague will cover for him. Productivity is not lost as he work one extra hour every weekday. So overall the number of work hours is the same and yet he get to enjoy one extra day off every 2 weeks. Business also won’t lose out to overseas or local competitions who don’t implement such policy, as they have colleagues supporting and covering for each other during their absence.
[6:00 pm, 14/09/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
Employers and employees in Singapore are strongly encouraged to be open to flexible work arrangements, including four-day work weeks, said Minister of State for Manpower Gan Siow Huang in Parliament on Tuesday.
She added: "As with any work arrangement, a four-day work week may work well for some employers and employees, but not others.
💬 What are your views on flexible work arrangements, including four-day work weeks?
"So far, results appear to be mixed. Some of the key concerns that stakeholders have include the impact on productivity, business costs, and employee well-being," said Ms Gan.
She added that while productivity improvements have been reported in some cases, this depends on the sector and job type.
"In some instances, reduced …
[6:00 pm, 14/09/2022] +Timothy Low: He works for a company in Jurong Island and he stays at the East. Imagine the number of hours saved from travelling back and forth just by implementing a 4 days work week
[6:06 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: Why would the 4-day-week worker only “produce” 700 durians? On a straight-line basis you would expect him to produce 4/5th of the work of the 5-day-week work (i.e. 800 durians).
However, many studies have shown that workers with a 4-day-week (i.e. 3-day-weekend) are more efficient and effective and often do the same work in four days as their 5-day-week counterparts.
So if paid the same, you're no worse off (and maybe don't have to operate the plant one extra day a week or another worker uses his workspace on his days off, both of which saves money).
[6:08 pm, 14/09/2022] +YT: Sure, 4-day weeks are good. But something has to give. Just like many are calling for permanent "work-from-home" arrangements. I have no objections but salaries just need to be cut to reflect the fewer days. For those advocating Work-From-Home, salaries need to be cut too as there will be lesser supervision of whether the employee is actually working or out running personal errands. So, workers can demand this and demand that, government like MOS Gan can appease them by saying they support them, at the end of the day, a business is a business. Something needs to give. If employees are willing to settle for lesser pay, then I am supportive of it. If employees insist on same pay but fewer days or permanently work from home, then I would say, go work somewhere else.
[6:09 pm, 14/09/2022] +Caleb: +1,
I myself have tried to do all the work within 4 days instead of 5 days... and I am able to complete it within 4 days...
[6:13 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: I could definitely do what I currently do in 5 days in 4 days by getting in a bit earlier and working a bit later and ending unnecessary calls sooner, if I could guarantee that the 5th day remained mine and didn't end up becoming a pseudo 6th day.
[6:16 pm, 14/09/2022] +typing: It's a bit like BlackBerry.... I remember being told it would revolutionise my life because I wouldn't have to stay late in the office to deal with that late-night, last-minute document. Instead it revolutionised my life by making work become 24/7 with permanent connectivity.
[6:18 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Output will determine whether the boss agree that 4 days week is better than 5 days week.
Services is also another determinant.
Ultimately, market forces decides - whether a 4 days week is viable or not.
I am relief that the government maintain a 5 days week.
[6:21 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. If a core person is not around on a particular day - which he or she cannot handover to another person - to me the service is not up to standard if he or she need 3 days to respond.
So she lose the business - and she will need to anwer to her boss.
[6:37 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Coming to recession, a manager is not a boss.
Even how well manager rate a staff, boss will look at his cost, profit and loss.
When he find that staff cost is too high - he will pick staff to cut.
Let see a 4 days week staff survive better than a 5 days week staff - assuming performance is equal.
[6:41 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Business exit because of profit generated. Owners can choose to sell the business if ROI is below their expectations.
[6:45 pm, 14/09/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,*
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
[6:45 pm, 14/09/2022] +Say Juan: i think the person who propose it should start up his/her own business and understand what are the challenges in running a business. Everyone thinks every boss is wealthy. Actually, there are many SME bosses who made tremendous sacrifices at the expenses of their family's well being, paid less than their staff, work 60 to 70 hours work week and in the end went bankrupt and lose everything. As rightly pointed out by Danny, we must remain competitive. a fresh graduate IT graduate in Singapore is now earning more than what a 10 to 15 years Senior IT Engineers/Manager earn in Malaysia.
[6:45 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: In service industry, a customer's contract requires 5 days of support, and they don't care whether the vendor’s workers work 4 days or 5 days; as long there is a headcount standby, it will be the owner of the vendor to decide to have how many additional staff to standby. This will affect the headcount cost
[6:51 pm, 14/09/2022] +SL: Outsourced to offshore staff (a popular choice now) may become a valuable option for owners in specific industries.
[6:59 pm, 14/09/2022] +Smiley face: 14 September, 2022
To: Our Distinguished Leaders, Management & Human Capital Experts and All Honorable Members
"Working Smarter and Covering Bases"
No Sweat Lah?
Shorter work week! It doesn't matter, with planning and training, things will work out well.
How to ensure and enable a smooth transition into a 4-day work week (or even a 3-days WW)?
Staggering operations will cover the gap days with it a Friday or a Monday, this case assuming two gap days for discussion purposes.
By staggering work place into smaller units, starting with Team A and B. Team A will work from Monday to Thursday and Team B will work from Tuesday to Friday. Any unforseeables like urgent leaves or sick leaves, either-or from Team A or B to stand in for such lapse events.
Plan…
[7:00 pm, 14/09/2022] +Poh S. Lim: The idea of productivity is not linear.
1 worker 1000 durians a week in 5 days is while the same worker 800 durians in 4 days is a linear concept and is not productivity.
Productivity is about changing the technology so that 1 worker can still produce the same or more in the same amount of time
[7:01 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
5 days week workers will work longer than 4 days week workers in total.
And they are more accessible.
[7:02 pm, 14/09/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
It is linear
[7:02 pm, 14/09/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
===
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