REACH 319 - What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital? (SK)
16 Feb 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[9:59 am, 16/02/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
Government agencies are looking into using artificial intelligence (AI) to quickly detect and block scam websites through telco networks to protect the public from being scammed.
To complement this, the National Crime Prevention Council will also launch a WhatsApp channel by the third quarter of this year to source information on scam websites from the public.
💬 What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital?
Announcing the new moves on Tuesday (Feb 15), Minister Josephine Teo said in Parliament that one of the Government's upstream measures to combat scams is disrupting the ability of scammers to reach potential victims through communications infrastructure such as telco networks.
Banks will accelerate their shift towards the use of mobile banking apps to authenticate customers, authorise transactions and send alerts to customers as part of a multi-pronged effort to thwart scams, said Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) deputy chairman Lawrence Wong on Tuesday (Feb 15).
Measures that the MAS and retail banks will take to bolster the security of digital banking include:
➡️Review the use of SMS to deliver one-time passwords and exploring new risk mitigation measures if SMS should continue to be used.
➡️Expand the use of biometric technology, in addition to passwords and OTPs, as a means of authentication.
➡️Further strengthen fraud surveillance to identify suspicious and anomalous transactions.
➡️Develop more versatile algorithms that use artificial intelligence and machine learning to detect suspicious transactions.
➡️Step up the ability to immediately block suspicious transactions and contact their customers to verify their authenticity.
➡️Introduce additional customer confirmation requirements, and not just notifications, for significant changes to customers' accounts or high-risk transactions.
👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/government-agencies-exploring-use-of-ai-to-block-scam-websites-faster-jo-teo
👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/banks-to-review-use-of-sms-for-otps-further-strengthen-fraud-surveillance-lawrence-wong
👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/2m-from-ocbc-scams-recovered-121-local-bank-accounts-frozen-desmond-tan
👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/6-ways-to-avoid-being-scammed-in-spore-helplines-and-online-resources
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[10:04 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Scamalert website was set up to inform and remind citizens to be aware of recent scams and their modus operandi.
Perhaps citizens were complacent
[10:09 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Actually why are is the society getting more and more baby minded where everything needs authority to step in? The basis of these are the ethics and mindset of society had gone wayward by this am saying WHERE GOT MONEY DROP from the sky to you? If you received message from bank regarding your account is it not common sense to call the bank to check instead of clicking, technology does not means we lost our basic sense of how things work...
[10:11 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Greed is the main cause
[10:12 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: well said
[10:12 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Greed .... is what is deep rooted in our society ... easy money
[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Ignorance is the 2nd cause
[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Follow by complacent
[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and that's how syndicate works ... on human greed / complacent (singapore espically cos we been boosting how safe we are in many aspect)
[10:14 am, 16/02/2022] +RH: "common" sense...
not so common, after all.... 😁
[10:14 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this is further made worst when our law seems to be bendable .... gone are the days where people hear singapore and behave themselves ..... espically when singapore dare to cane an american over vandalism
[10:17 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Gov can continue to make announcement or reminders on being vigilant, but end day lies on the responsibilities of individual.
[10:17 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: from authority and local govt / big establishment force them to stop using +65 .. since by now society had been taught +65 are fake numbers / spam ... cos till date even myself am still getting +65 from places like hospital
[10:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: agree we are responsible for our own action
[10:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: from vaccination to banking to whatever that comes to our phone ya...
[10:19 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Banks in future shouldn't even compensate customers if due diligence had been fulfilled on the bank's side. This will give a wake up call to many.
[10:19 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to be fair BANK MUST UP their system as well like withdrawal / transfer of of certain amount must auto send alert
[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: am sure after this fisco people will not mind to get notify
[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: those who opt out will be responsible for any negative effects
[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: do not give people any option to set
[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: bank must set this as a must
[10:21 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: say anything above 500 out of their account / credit card will trigger an auto whatsapp and email and sms to the account holder
[10:22 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: is not hard to do it since most bank have notification procedure in place is just some tweaking by their internal developers
[10:22 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: I agree. Although I personally believe For the seniors banks should allow them to just go old school rather than force them to adopt digitisation or technology... wen banks or agency leave pple with no choices and do not allow this counter transactions or start a charging model.. this group will be the ones to believe these sms or calls to be legit
[10:23 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: wow u brought up a VERY VERY good point ... technology is not for everyone
[10:23 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: going digital as a nation is good but do not forget NOT ALL age can adapt to the change
[10:24 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: you ask a 90 yr old to book a meal or transport via a phone they rather die
[10:25 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: after all face a fact how big can this % of 80 and above people are , once they die you still get a whole nation of IT enable citizen so WHY push our 80s and 90s yr old folks to adopt ?
[10:26 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: Precisely. And if u look at the data of those falling victim to the scams? 1) elderly 2) lower educated 3) the greedy ones
[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: So 1 & 2 must be addressed immediately.. digital is not for evryone.. now even signatures can be forged and hacking is so prevalent how do u mitigate these
[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sometimes modernisation need not 100%, we need to think about that small population in the society this is NOT a company we referring to here is a country (even though we are an island only) and NOT always we have to follow what the society and young people feel.
[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: Don't force pple to be vigilant only.. give options to these grp of pple.
[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: actually options in this island will be slowly move develop and mature into recoomended /suggested phase with ""
[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: hahahahaha this is what i observed espically during this covid years ....
[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: To be fair, sometimes, people are careless/tired and accidentally click on a link that they shouldn't.
There are OS vulnerabilities that allow hackers access to a user's phone even without the user doing anything. A famous example is the NSO "zero-click" attack that exploited a vulnerability in iOS 14.4 and 14.6 .The significance of this event/episode was the fact that the exploit was on a newly launched (at that time) Operating System of a very popular phone and was discovered by independent security activist groups.
Of course, not all attacks are as sophisticated, but this highlights the vulnerability inherent in the way we constantly upgrade our smartphones and are increasingly doing our online transactions on these devices.
If the Govt has not already done so, maybe they need to consider investing/channelling more resources into hiring REAL cybersecurity experts, maybe even ex-hackers/white-hat hackers etc to constantly monitor and search for vulnerabilities in our frequently used devices/Apps. With plans to move towards digitalization/smart-Nation, it means tighter interconnectivity between devices, corporations, Govt agencies etc, which means more weak links within the wider network to exploit.
Continuous education and information campaigns for the general public will probably be necessary as well.
[10:35 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus to keep things simple banks should set by default notification alert once it cross say 500 value transaction, aka even if accidental action by user the 2nd level alert will still inform the user .....
[10:35 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: those who opt out then is your own business .......
[10:36 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to spend money cyber experts i rather this go to our defense hahahaha (ensure we are not subject to real cyber warfare)
[10:39 am, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: I think the decision by Banks to remove all clickable links in SMS messages is a positive first step. Sweeping the internet to identify and then remove fraudulent/phishing sites is also a good idea.
[10:40 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: agree links in sms should not be there is too tempting .....
[10:40 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sweeping internet for fake sites of establishment should be by the establishment themselves not the govt ....
[10:45 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
These announced measures will certainly reduce the chances of hackers scamming the people.
But hackers are dynamic and constantly exploring new techniques to breach the cyberdefences.
Just come across a new techniques that hackers are using - transparent reverse proxy that can transparently phish userid, password and multi-authentication through a man-in-the-middle-attack.
Unsuspecting user will see a real website by inputting the login credentials - but the transparent reverse proxy will quietly siphon the login credentials away.
I hope the government has come out with counter measure to prevent such phishing attempt.
[10:45 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: This could end up with legal battles that the consumer can't afford as the banks will always claim they did do proper due diligence.
[10:47 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: Yes, many banks offer this already, and you can set the limits manually. Fortunately I got a notification of a $2.99 spend I hadn't made which alerted me to misuse of my credit card. Already $160 had been spent by the time I was able to stop the card, but it could have been worse.
[10:47 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: Correct - and those people are often the most vulnerable.
[10:51 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/03/proofpoint_mitm_reverse_proxies/
Phishing kits' use of man-in-the-middle reverse proxies is growing, warns Proofpoint.
And it can bypass MFA (Multi-Factor Authentication) - and steal all user credentials through the phishing sites using transparent reverse proxy that look like the real site).
[11:03 am, 16/02/2022] +Dan: Times are bad. Usually during economical downturn, crimes are on the rise. When people turn desperate, they turn to illegal activities as they are seen as "easy money". Here are my thoughts.
1) harsher laws for scam crimes to deter.
Penalties for Cheating
The penalty for cheating under section 415 of the Penal Code is a fine and/or imprisonment for up to 3 years.
Aggravated cheating occurs when a person cheats and thereby dishonestly induces the victim to:
Hand over property to any person;
Partially or completely make, alter or destroy a valuable security* (such as credit cards, stored value cards and automated teller machine (ATM) cards);
Make, alter or destroy a signed and sealed document which may become a valuable security.
The penalty for such aggravated cheating under section 420 of the Penal Code is a fine and imprisonment for up to 10 years. We have to ask are the laws enough to deter them from commiting the crime.
2) As I said, people spending increase, to adhere to social norms, people will find it hard to change their lifestyle/ adapt to the rising cost. When Mdm Halimah came out to say when cost of chicken rises, eat fish. People took it literally and took it out to bash at the president. But what she meant is we need to adapt to the times, change our lifestyle. There ought to financial planners for people who needs help. To help them to regroup and reshuffle their resources. Many of them, they are embarassed to seek help and continue with their lifestyle. The debts will just continue to snowball.
3) Is our govt able to extend money lending services to our people? Sengkang MP Jamus Lim had proposed to use a part of money to lend out to people during these trying times. Economic downturn, inflation is gg to have a chain effect.
[11:05 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Reverse transparent proxy are legitimate deployment - usually sit in between clients and servers - to protect, secure and accelerate enterprise applications while accessing web applications eg. Bluecoat ProxySG.
2. But sophisticated hackers are using such techniques to do phishing attempt by deploying such proxy in internet to do phishing attempt via man-in-the-middle-attack.
3. Thus government must mount a counter measure to prevent such scam.
4. Realize the announced measures did not address such sophisticated attack.'
[11:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Rama: 👍
[11:23 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/hackers-have-begun-adapting-to-wider-use-of-multi-factor-authentication/
Hackers have begun adapting to wider use of multi-factor authentication.
[11:32 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Note:- not only security devices like bluecoat ProxySG can do transparent reverse proxy but load balancer that load balance servers can similarly do reverse transparent proxy.
2. So such techniques that are widely used in web and apps deployment - have been exploited by hackers to do phishing scam.
3. Such techniques is beyond normal users knowledge to avoid being scam.
4. Will require professional IT cyber security to prevent such attacks.
[11:42 am, 16/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: I don’t agree with greater use of biometric - it means those without these types of phones will find it more difficult to bank. Banks could reduce the number of promotions sent by sms, phone or email and rely more on snail mail + app notifications. In the recent OCBC scams I was surprised to read that their call centre was overwhelmed - banks need to be able to respond to crises so this needs to be reviewed by them. Another aspect which is still weak is credit card fraud originating overseas - even with notifications set up my wife and I have had a number of instances where our cards were fraudulently used while we were sleeping and we only realised it many hours later. Luckily with covid and less travel banks seem to be understanding that most likely we weren’t overseas and so getting the charges removed wasn’t too difficult but I do worry that when travel resumes these types of frauds will increase. My point being that banks should look at all aspects now of fraud not just the recent scams when they are rolling out improvements. Lastly - banks should make it easier for alerts to be set up - for example, many of our banks require each account holder to separately set up alerts - why can’t this be done by any name on the account?
[11:53 am, 16/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: One more thought: some of the bank promotions I receive (balance transfer, loan, etc) require me to click a link to obtain the promotion. If I log directly into the website or use the app the promotion is not there. Banks should make more use of their apps and websites to make promotions directly available to the targeted customers.
[11:54 am, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[11:55 am, 16/02/2022] +Dan: Dear Reach, I missed the previous topic on the recent surge of cases. 2 members of my household were tested positive. During this period, I made several observation when collecting ART test kit which I think can be improved.
Several vending machines were out of stocked due to the surge. I need to collect art kit from is 5 bus stops away from my home. I have the social responsibility to conduct ART test on myself, but I wonder does everyone have that responsibility. When I was there, there are about 7 households in queue. I'm no.8 Nothing wrong if these people are also HRW like me, but what if...
1) More vending machines to be placed in each area. At least, every CCs should have it. Afterall, its better for ppl to google for the place, when we know for sure CCs have it.
2) More routine checks to make sure stock is replenished daily. There is a surge now. More ppl needs it.
3) I understand there is a queue. But this is diff from queueing for ur cai png or atm withdrawals, there shld be a longer social distance between each family. Notice I used family here. I saw a household of 4 queueing for the art test kits queueing. If 4 of them are there, then who is covid positive?
Please look into this immediately.
[11:59 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Due to surge in cases, hence it was oos. You could chk availability on website prior to collection
[11:59 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Yes agreed more vending machine to be made available
[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So even using multiple authentication is useless - if hackers use transparent reverse proxy.
Government must muster the cyber security experts to tackle this.
[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Would every CC and RC help to reduce running around?
[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes
[0:02 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Think gov shld give each person another set of ART kits.
[0:02 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: For this wave
[0:06 pm, 16/02/2022] +Linda: With the surge of cases, the vending machines sure not enough stock.
Will the RC able to help to distribute the ART kits to family members whom have positive cases or on HRWO notices?
[0:06 pm, 16/02/2022] +Linda: +1
[0:24 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Are most of these cyber attacks and scams originating from within Singapore or coming in from overseas?
[0:34 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
No one can tell.
Because hackers can jump host from local to overseas and vice versa - hidden by firewalls, proxies, VPN and many security devices that hide their location and identities.
You will need telecos in all countries to reveal the hackers access path to nail the hackers.
[0:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Vivian: I encountered one scam before. It was from Russia.
[0:54 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Sometimes it may seem like from Russia.
But it may not be - depending on the sophistication of the attack.
To do a scam successfully, the hacker must know the local context very well - before Singaporean can be trick successfully.
It could be a local hacker or an expatriate in Singapore, with good knowledge of the local context, doing the scam.
Eg. It will hack a poorly protected client or server in Russia.
Setup a SSH or VPN connection to encrypt and provide a secure tunnel that hide its identity. After hacking, remove all audit trail, security logs and access logs.
Then from the comprised Russia server or client to phish a Singapore user.
When the police check, it will only trace that the hacking come from Russia.
Thus can't tell whether the hackers originate from local or Russia.
[0:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Generally consider the dark Web too
[1:57 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. As the compromised server or client in Russia is clean up of all trail, Russia Telco must cooperate by furnishing;-
a. The internet IP address dish out to the client router gateway, inbound and outbound access, date and time stamp, web proxies info eg. Which websites it access before Singapore police can nail this hacker as coming from Russia or Singapore.
2. Singapore Telco got to do likewise.
3. Hence forensic investigation is a very tedious process that requires specialise IT skills, knowledge and the cooperation of all countries Telco involvement.
[2:07 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Yes.
I m still using the digital token issued by the bank, more than 20? 30? years ago.
I find it easier & more "comforting" to do my banking transactions on my PC, than use the hp.
All these PayWhatever apps by banks may be fast & convenient for the new gen, but diehards like us in our 60's wud still prefer the traditional ways.
I know of many others who dun even own a smartphone, and some dun even hv hp.
So, when gg digital, one must bear in mind this percentage of the popn who prefer not to go too digitalised.
Leave a way for this grp to transact "safely" , yet conveniently.
[2:08 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
I think you mean physical token.
Digital token is a soft token that is an apps install in the hp.
[2:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Wat abt laws for criminals from overseas?
How do we deal with those, since most of the cyber attacks can also originate from ther?
Is the gov able to apply our laws on them or take them to task on the international arena?
[2:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Yes.
Physical token, wher I can press the buttons... 😁
U see, I can't even tell the diff... 😂
[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Is there any way for customers to block transfer money to overseas?
[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Maybe be default shld be disablsd
[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Disabled
[2:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: It's a good point...
Imposing / updating the laws to deter such crimes.
Not just working in the digital solutions...
[2:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: To enable must go down branch to enabled. Excluding those who have already had these transactions in the past
[2:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: The next step wud be Enforcement of these measures.
Who & How...
Having a law is no use if it can't be enforced.
[2:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +jimmy chew: Hacking thru social engineering is hard to counter. Folks need to be cautious. My friend is careful but the day he nearly click on the ocbc link was because he was in between handling two crisis. He would have been scam if he didn't just stopped and decided to look again
[2:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Likewise,
Sometimes we r all so busy and caught up with our daily lives tt we just neglect to check.
And tt is when things can go wrong.
[3:09 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: OCBC rolls out ‘kill switch’ to allow customers to freeze all accounts in case of scam
OCBC Bank on Wednesday (Feb 16) rolled out an emergency “kill switch” that will allow customers to freeze their bank accounts if they suspect they are a victim of a scam.
More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ocbc-rolls-out-kill-switch-allow-customers-freeze-all-accounts-case-scam-2501741
[3:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Umar M: Hope all banks follow suit.
[3:16 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sounds nice but (i not read the artcile yet) but if want to turn back to live account after kill switch is turn on ?cumbersome?
[3:21 pm, 16/02/2022] +jimmy chew: It's good but seem like they pushing the responsibility to the consumer? 🤔 By the time I recognized it's too late. Maybe they should preempt or think of a Sure proof Way is Best. One of my friends got her debit card debited for $200, $300, $400 and $400 with a day. She only knew it at 11pm. She called us her friends and we advised her to inform the bank to cancelled. When she checked with the bank they say it's common 🤣
[3:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this kill shoudl be used as 2nd layer
[3:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 1st layer shoudl be from the bank notification and legally there might be red tapes for them to stop an account
[3:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so ideally the system should work this way if $ is move in super large amount or mutli times out, sms shouuld be first off / email fire off / bank app starts to make noise, if user do not response then (is user issue liao)
[3:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but if user see this message / alerts the kill switch is there for use (thus reducing the damage done to account
[3:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cannot everything bank bank or govt mah
[3:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: OCBC rolls out ‘kill switch’ to allow customers to freeze all accounts in case of scam
OCBC Bank on Wednesday (Feb 16) rolled out an emergency “kill switch” that will allow customers to freeze their bank accounts if they suspect they are a victim of a scam.
More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ocbc-rolls-out-kill-switch-allow-customers-freeze-all-accounts-case-scam-2501741
[4:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +Umar M: Works similarly for cyber security. A kill switch for your servers when you detect hacking etc.
[4:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: yeah there must be multi layer cannot every think govt or bank , user need to be involved also .....
[4:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: anyway is our money, bank is just a holding institution .... if customer think everything bank do ok then bank can invest 100% of the money at 0 cost return or compensation .....
[4:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 2 hands to clap thus like mentioned earlier our society mindset abit screwed .....
[4:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: just like how after vaccine ppl think they will not get infected and is super human
[4:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: vaccine is one of the layer safety net , layer 1 safety is still our mask and whatever social measures ....till date after 24 mths we still see idiots not wearing mask covering mouth and nose, finding excuses to mask off and breeching social measures.....
[4:14 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: den blame govt / business everything but themselves ...
[4:15 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sorry not pro govt or any entities jutst feel that Singapore society STOP BEING influence by external news / media/ culture / mindset, we have to reclaim and steadfast our identity .... we die you think people will jolly open their arms and help you ... NOOOOOOOOO
[4:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Scam victims in S'pore lost $633.3 million in 2021
Police said at least 90 per cent of scams in Singapore originate from overseas, and described the scammers as syndicated, well-resourced and technologically sophisticated.
More: https://str.sg/wWtQ
[4:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: back to the topic of scam, not sure if is good but can the market bring in non smart phone for our oldies folks
[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: they just want to make call while on the move
[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: that might save them from being scam also cos is not smart enuff for ppl to heck the phone hahaha
[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: china is selling alot of these phones for oldies
[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: just plain call in and out
[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: fyi they even have phone for kids to prevent phone addiction to games
[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cal video call also but no smart services hahahaa
[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Nokia 6310 works this way!?
[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: i think so ...
[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Believe we have it here
[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but compatible with our so call 4plus and 5g is another think remember how telco chase people to throw and upgrade to 4g
[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes
[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: stating older phoen will not be supported
[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: see not all people like technology even for some 60 yr old folks they just want a simple phone call in and out
[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes
[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: they dun bother about taking picture also
[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so while we move into a tech age, let's not forget about the sentiments of the society ...keyword choice
[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: not everything is about tech -> leading to bigger pay package for ceo and their own gang
[4:38 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Not only smartphone can get hack.
If use laptop will also get hack.
As long as one used internet banking - if used incorrectly will get hack.
[4:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus we need multi layers
[4:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: bank and user corporate
[4:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: everything cannot be fool proof or put on silver tray and present to citizens .. like that we are like mentally handicap cannot think which i think the society is now , espically people who do not group up here they think the streets and social system are path with gold and all laid nicely for people to consume without any error or obstacle
[4:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[5:43 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Disabling recurring payments is plain daft. Giro bill payment all stopped. Sounds like chaos.
[5:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Latest Announcements
Singapore to simplify Covid-19 rules for gatherings, travel and workplaces, paving way for future easing
👉 https://str.sg/wWvk
Healthcare and eldercare sectors must continue with rostered routine testing for Covid-19
👉 https://str.sg/wWvZ
Entry approval measures for fully vaccinated long-term pass holders to be removed from Feb 21
👉 https://str.sg/wWvo
More Covid-19 Omicron patients can self-isolate at home without seeing a doctor
👉 https://str.sg/wWv3
S'pore-Malaysia land VTL traveller quota to be reinstated from Feb 22
👉 https://str.sg/wWvJ
Close contacts of confirmed Covid-19 cases to have shorter monitoring period as HRW is replaced
👉 https://str.sg/wWvU
VTLs for Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Philippines and all of Thailand to start soon; on-arrival PCR tests replaced with ART from Feb 22
👉 https://str.sg/wWv5
Fully vaccinated nursing home residents with no or mild symptoms allowed to recover on-site
👉 https://str.sg/wWvT
No plans to require second booster shot in Singapore: Kenneth Mak
👉 https://str.sg/wWvq
[5:57 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Close contacts of Covid-19 cases to have shorter monitoring period of 5 days
Close contacts of confirmed Omicron cases will no longer receive a health risk warning (HRW) from Friday (Feb 18) and their self-monitoring period will be cut to five days instead of seven, said the Ministry of Health on Wednesday.
More: https://str.sg/wWvU
[5:58 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: 👍
[6:03 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph Yap: 💬 What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital?
I strongly believe the Government’s preventive measures to bolster security of digital banking is critical and timely to guard the general public’s confidence in the adoption of digital banking, especially among the elderly.
We can be more vigilant against scams by having a centralised website (an example is Mask go Where gov.sg website used in mask distribution campaign) to educate and warn general public on the on-going and trending scam being identified by the Singapore Police Force.
[6:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: It's a step forward, but the 5 person limit is still too restrictive at restaurant or outdoor social gatherings. If a family of 5 can have 5 people to their house, let's allow those same 10 people to go to a restaurant together. Not everyone has a big house to socialise in.
[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Was hoping for eight
[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Looking forward to no mask required in open spaces, such as parks, beach, nature reserve.
[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Yes 8 at least - 5 is such an awkward number.
[6:15 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: More VTL is also good. Assume Gov is working hard to widen this rapidly. Although I notice the VTL flights are considerably more expensive from some locations, than the non-VTL (that was a few weeks ago, might have changed)
[6:17 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-to-simplify-covid-19-rules-for-gatherings-travel-and-workplaces-paving-way-for-future-easing - funny that they use a picture with no one wearing masks.... that'
[6:17 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: that is how it should be in this situation
[6:19 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: For those of us without Gardens, or private outdoor space, we have had 2 years of wearing a mask outside, often with no one around. I take the dog out at night and walk an empty street having to wear a mask... feels ridiculous.
[6:22 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Singapore to allow quarantine-free travel to fully vaccinated visitors from Batam and Bintan
Fully vaccinated travellers from Batam and Bintan in Indonesia will be allowed to enter Singapore from Feb 25 without quarantine, the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) announced on Wednesday (Feb 16).
https://str.sg/wWve
[6:24 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Hopefully, before the next GE,we can look back and see how we survived this pandemic.
[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Good news. Hope that land links can be restored for non essential travels to Malaysia too.
[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: 👍👍
[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes
[6:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Malaysia is one of our biggest trade partners and many Singaporeans and Malaysians have homes and businesses in Johor.
[6:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: For day trips, I guess the same test result can be used for arrival and departure...?
[6:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Gov got 2 years to plan on VTL travel by car via causeway.
But seems like that did not take the past 2 year to plan.
[6:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes
[6:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Honestly is there is a point to keep.passenger cars out of the causeway when the covid situation in Johor and Singapore is almost the same or might be even better than Singapore? 😅
[6:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: just do on arrival pcr tests and the 5 days art test like the rest of the VTLs
[6:42 pm, 16/02/2022] +Laurent: In 2018, 6K people died from influenza and Pneumonia. This works out to be about 17 people dead each day. There wasn't a "pandemic" and certainly no discrimination or VDS or incessant promotion of vaccination.
With the widespread fear and many people not questioning the safety of the "vaccine" and willfully ignoring multiple red flags, this shows how easily public opinion can be formed and directed by what the govt and mass media promotes.
This brings about the question if the public is being fed facts or propaganda.
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/singapore-influenza-pneumonia
No comments needed, just another proof of the machiavellian use of Covid by the governments, including in Singapore.
This is how trust in those who govern us is lost forever...
[6:51 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We’d love to hear more from you!
As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.
Megan 😊
[6:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +Smiley face: "He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions."
- - Confucius
[6:55 pm, 16/02/2022] +Smiley face: 16 February, 2022
To: Distinguished MTF and All Honorable Members
"What A Good Feeling...! "
Yes, we are ready! Singapore will once again stand on par as a covid 'SMART & MATURED' nation together with the handful of Europeans countries in descaling these covid medical and social mandates of the past months. In geo perspective, importantly, Singapore will be the FIRST in Asia to emerge and to engage that is, we are fully OPEN for business 24/7!
MAJULAH SINGAPURA!
"... Courage is a decision.”
- - Winston Churchill
[6:56 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Cheers!
[7:04 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: There has been 5.84 MILLION deaths from CV19 reported globally since 2019.
Approx. 500k people die globally every year from influenza related causes. ie. Estimated deaths globally since end-2019 till now would be less than 1 MIO .. WITHOUT any interventions/restrictions/precautionary measures.
Singapore has a very low number of deaths because of the INTERVENTIONS/SAFETY MEASURES we had in place.
[7:05 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: We have done well
[7:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: Singapore is moving confidently towards endemic with our population mostly fully vaccinated AND our healthcare/hospitals ready to provide adequate support to our patients.
Singapore is opening up travel confidently while most other countries still have strict travel restrictions/quarantine requirements in place. Some, simply do not have the financial and/or political capital to enact those restrictions to the detriment of their own people.
So, for a foreigner like you, to come here, enjoy the security and FREEDOM that Singapore so generously accord you, and then have you criticize our ELECTED Govt for doing what is necessary (at the expense of popularity) to protect us, is not acceptable!
Go ahead and fk your French Govt all you want, i don’t care! But do not lump us in with your corrupt, impotent and ineffective Govt in Europe!
[7:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Go back to where you came from!
[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: WAHHH SI BEH FIERCE ..but if it is something on foreign influence yes i agree, any visitor who is not happy about how the govt is protecting its citizen should just pack and go ....
[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this is not a wonderland, we took years to built and hold fort where we were
[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Imported second class citizen crap. Occupying temporarily here.
[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: But but that article is abit right in certain context ------->>>""With the widespread fear and many people not questioning the safety of the "vaccine" and willfully ignoring multiple red flags, this shows how easily public opinion can be formed and directed by what the govt and mass media promotes. ""
[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: I spot an antivaxxor
[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Likewise
[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this vaccine till date no one knows what ill effects it had yet....
[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: True
[7:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and this is a global thinggy that all govt just jump on the bandwagon , to the extend that WHO infact calls for country to stop 3rd shot but government of certain countries are not heeding the advise and went ahead with 4th shot
[7:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[7:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: ask urself are you willing to keep jabbing for say the next 6mths or less , even if you dare do you bear your off springs to do it? This is a question ? for many many of us deep deep deep deep down inside
[7:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: The thought has crossed mind!
[7:33 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: This is espically when the vaccine was push as a prevention of the sickness where instead it SHOULD be promoted as a solution to lessen your infection seriousness ... and if that was kick started off maybe globally we were be in a better position because every vaccinated human will still take precaution
[7:33 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: To stop 3rd shot so that there will be supply for 3rd world countries. Get your facts right
[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: many western countries people i think are pissed because like many here they thought with the God gifted vaccine they will be PREVENTED from the virus which is not true, Isreal had shown 4th shot does still continue to have people infected
[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus to certain aspect Laurent does have some valid concerns which everyone of us have and old as well
[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Correct
[7:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but of cos if the artcile is to derail what our country is doing for the living beings here than yes is a BIG F word.. like how we do not respectfully comment on how other countries are handling their control state of things ya
[7:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Not our style!
[7:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: every body know the freaking reason why WHO call for 3rd sjab to be stop is publish globally no need for such I AM STUPID attitude dude!
[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: Everybody knows? You know because of what fact? Please list it here and don't distort what WHO said to fit your agenda
[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to those who think jo is rude well i think as any loving country citizen we should stand up and be stead fast to our believes...... as ONE Nation and people
[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: You sound like one of the Smurfs from healing the divide
[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus at this junction i will say laurent does have certain aspect which seems valid as well
[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: 😦😯😧😂😅🤣
[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: From my family’s experience of catching Covid 19 and the differing symptoms to members of different age and vaccination status, I would follow the medical directive and take the booster as advised.
The current vaccine is not perfect. But with 10.4 BILLION doses administered in 184 countries, I think if it were unsafe, we would have already known about it.
We can only hope to defeat this current pandemic so scientists can focus next on improving the vaccine. It will take time, experience and maybe even luck, to discover/achieve the next breakthrough in vaccine/therapeutics.
[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Y
[7:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: will not argue on who is right or wrong because we are not the medical field but questions of such mentioned will still be on our mind and deep inside us or society, this cannot be deny
[7:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but one thing for sure like mentioned vaccine is to lessen the effects of the sickness not to prevent ...
[7:45 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[7:46 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: If i am not wrong.. i think i read somewhere or someone’s commentary on this.. which kind of agree with. is that the WHO is calling for a halt on the 4th shot because there are still many countries that do not have access to even the first shot. So affluent Nations are hogging the production lines, and maybe this demand is also keeping the prices up and beyond the reach of these poorer Nations. something like that .. True or not, I am not sure. But it kind of makes sense to me.
And i think to be fair, SG G/MOH is never the first mover in this area. They have been waiting and watching and studyjng Israel and UK’s data before deciding whether or not to take the risk to proceed.
Between choosing to believe in our G/MOH and some article written by an unknown author with dubious credentials, my choice is clear.
[7:47 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: it started with the 3rd shot and it was all over the news globally which from the start i did mentioned why are govt not supporting this notion ....
[7:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: quote -> "Between choosing to believe in our G/MOH and some article written by an unknown author with dubious credentials, my choice is clear." thus mentioned if the motive is to derail of cos your big F was right
[7:49 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: I can understand why the people in Europe and the US don’t trust their Govt. But .. don’t project those feelings unto our country/Govt.. the Govt that WE collectively elected. Insulting our Govt is insulting the people who voted and placed trust in SG GOVT ie. YOU and I.
[7:50 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: also at the same time the article address concerns which had all this while in question in not only here but global society also ... key word concerns not repel / not go against / not reject in any o fthe mentioned stated in my reply. thus i do not understand why some a.h decided to bark like dogs hahahaha .. this is a discussion board and if some a.h like to be right jolly well start up a personnel board ya
[7:51 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: read from both sides lor then dun feel so bad, he might subtly try to influence but too bad we still have people who do not embrace such approach
[7:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cos we sure not want to be a follower at the expense of our society and lives ....
[7:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[7:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree
[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: The point of this forum is to hear people's views, including @Laurent and not to attack them.
[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: Yes agree. I am not insisting I am correct while others who disagree with me must be wrong. I am just sharing, a factual experience about how the vaccine had worked for us in reducing the symptoms.
I came across posts/comments by a lot of anti-vaxxers in other countries who shared how they caught CV19, took Ivermectin and recovered in 4 days… i am sure they are not lying… but then again, they probably never thought that it was not the Ivermectin that helped them, but their own immune system successfully overcoming the infection. The symptoms they described - obviously more severe and quite like my unvaxxed U12 family member and friends who hesitated to take the booster and then caught CV recently. What is worrying is that the misinformation they were fed pr…
[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Once again we see awful comments directed at a participant for sharing a view about the topic being discussed.
[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +~N: Please strengthen PDPA regulations as well.
[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and i too agree with you on your point also not in any way saying you except for the other A.H. who thinks he is almighty correct .. duhhh
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