REACH 455 - What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
(SK)
12 May 2023 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:47 am, 12/05/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
Welcome back! π
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Megan π
[10:00 am, 12/05/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
About 2.5 million adult Singaporeans will receive up to $400 in cash in June under the 2023 Cost-Of Living (COL) Special Payment to provide cost-of-living relief for Singaporean households, with more support given to lower- to middle-income groups. Among the 2.5 million eligible Singaporeans, some 850,000 seniors will receive an additional sum of up to $300 under the 2023 COL Seniors’ Bonus for additional support.
π¬ What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
π Eligibility Criteria for 2023 COL Special Payment
Citizens who are 21 years old and above in 2023, with an annual assessable income of no more than $100,000 and who do not own more than one property, are eligible for a one-off cash payout of between $200 and $400 in June 2023. This is regardless of the type of property they live in.
π Eligibility Criteria for the 2023 COL Seniors' Bonus
A cash payout of between $200 and $300 will be given to all senior Singapore citizens aged 55 years and above in 2023, with an annual assessable income of no more than $34,000, whose residential address is a property with an annual value not exceeding $21,000, and who do not own more than one property.
The COL Special Payment and COL Seniors’ Bonus are one-off support measures given to Singaporeans as part of an enhanced Assurance Package, which was announced at Budget 2023 by Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong. He also announced that the package would be topped up by $3 billion, bringing the total amount to be eventually disbursed to $9.6 billion, up from the $6.6 billion announced in 2022.
The package is expected to offset at least five years of additional GST expenses for most households, and about 10 years’ worth for lower-income households. Citizens can check their eligibility for the payouts at the Assurance Package official website by logging in with their Singpass.
π https://www.mof.gov.sg/news-publications/press-releases/about-2.5-million-singaporeans-will-receive-the-2023-cost-of-living-(col)-special-payment-in-june
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/about-25-million-singaporeans-to-receive-cost-of-living-relief-payments-in-june
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/budget-2023-more-help-for-singaporeans-to-cope-with-rising-costs-gst-hike
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[10:01 am, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Much appreciate the help from our government. π€ππππ
[10:02 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: What about HDB grants? I heard is changed
[10:03 am, 12/05/2023] +Rama: For the better!?
[10:03 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Core family nucleus mean share the grant equally for next purchase new home
[10:04 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Does someone living in a multimillion dollar property need this? π Eligibility Criteria for 2023 COL Special Payment
Citizens who are 21 years old and above in 2023, with an annual assessable income of no more than $100,000 and who do not own more than one property, are eligible for a one-off cash payout of between $200 and $400 in June 2023. This is regardless of the type of property they live in.
[10:05 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: There was a means test applied to the elderly, why not everyone? 'whose residential address is a property with an annual value not exceeding $21,000.'
[10:06 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: a previous argument put up by multimillion dollar property dweller was that they living in family home but have retired and living on savings, thus needed help
[10:07 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Not sure they need help.....? If they really needed that $400 they would be looking to sell their property.
[10:08 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: but they are dweller looking after the family home and they are not sole owners of it, need the remaining owners to sell
[10:08 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Also, is cash really the best use of our funds.... people just go abroad and spend.... the vouchers for Hawker and local retails was good, because it targeted funds where needed.
[10:09 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: How many cases are there where someone lives in a multi-million dollar home, but needs $400 to survive because their other family members won't help them and refuse to agree to sell the property?
[10:09 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/asset-rich-cash-poor-retirees-speak-up
[10:10 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: this focus to help specific groups which need help.
[10:10 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: i dont have the stats but i was just highlighting there were such cases, perhaps the reason the mean test was not put in
[10:11 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: 2-4 room hdb?
[10:11 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: In both cases they don't want to sell. It's not that they can't.
[10:12 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Yes, maybe single HDB owners would have been a good simple criteria?
[10:12 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Yes, good to see the extra for elderly.
[10:12 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Back to date 2013 is it carry the same
[10:13 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: oh, well spotted. Yes, this is 10 years ago.
[10:13 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: 2013 I believe they bough HDB affordable
[10:13 am, 12/05/2023] +~L: Correct, and we should have a provision anyway for people who literally cannot feed themselves. This one off payment is nice, but not a solution for them.
[10:14 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: The family can decide where the amount to spend is. For example, the amount can be used to pay utilities. Utility companies don't accept vouchers if I m not wrong.
[10:14 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: if u read the article, they also mentioned more such cases will surface
[10:14 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: so 10 years on
[10:14 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: there may be others like them
[10:14 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Those who are eligible elderly they can apply HDB elderly community HDB there is new environment and caring
[10:15 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Yes, the annual value maybe not exceed 21k
[10:15 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: and the government is watching that sandwiched asset rich class
[10:15 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: yea annual value has been a fairly reliable metric.
[10:16 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-guides/hdb-assisted-living-flats-40870
[10:19 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Government is helping Singaporeans to cope current post covid world, and reduce the impact of environment changes on us.
[10:19 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Elderly will be able live golden years when they sold their HDB and apply audio room for elderly community.
They will have enough CPF retire
[10:19 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: **Studio room
[10:21 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/new-community-care-apartments-seniors-bukit-batok-offer-elder-friendly-features-services
[10:23 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: It is important in the interim, in the long run, society, business, and community shall work to assimilate these people back into the resources pool without discrimination
[10:27 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Is there any statistic on how many seniors above 65 moves into these types of unit? Is there any reason why seniors above age 65 are not attracted to these types of units?
[10:29 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: last i heard, such developments have dwindled down
[10:30 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: and integrated into BTO developments
[10:30 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: basically the elder community development has been described by some elderlies as where elderlies move in and wait to die
[10:31 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Elderly not enough CPF for retire what their choice attracted studio room for care community.
Do they need to stay till too old and HDB lease run out become no value
[10:31 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Omg...
[10:31 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: if u think about it, it sounds quite accurate.. coz the demographic is heavily elderly dominated.. which means frequency of funeral wake at void deck gonna be high too
[10:33 am, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Hmm I don’t know if they are gone
[10:39 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: those already developed or in pipeline are still there. but i think their launches have reduced if not unheard of (from my personal unqualified observation) π
[10:57 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Is the whole block and surrounding neighborhood consist of studio units only?
[10:58 am, 12/05/2023] +Wai Xin: one or two blocks solely of studio units
[11:00 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: the funeral was in void decks may give such impression.
[11:01 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Maybe wait for the pilot project to be successful, then only roll to other estates
[11:04 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: I think the significant change of rising cost of living is household reducing expenses and switching the product by ignoring the branding effect. π€·♂️
[11:05 am, 12/05/2023] +TD: Pathetic paltry amount.
[11:05 am, 12/05/2023] +SL: Product branding and prompted quality may no longer be the factor in choosing a product.
[11:56 am, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: There are seniors who are asset rich but cash poor. Difficult to monetise their landed property which they are staying in. Too much memories in their own home, don’t want to move to another place.
They are living like pauper so that they can give home as inheritance to their kids when they pass on. Their love for their kids are what allows them to endure such living conditions.
[11:57 am, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Yes it’s a good thing.
[0:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +Sam: They should take an equity loan to fund for their retirement. Use less than $300k to buy CPF life to get more than $1500 payout. The only setback is their next of kin will receive less for inheritance. If they care so much about the inheritance, they should fund their parents retirement instead.
[0:02 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: I wish that hdb will allow old seniors to rent their old flat whilst they rent these senior flats. That way they will hv passive income and can sustain themselves.
Then no need gov handouts. Rentals in SG will also drop to more reasonable levels.
[0:03 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: If senior don’t know how to do it, hdb can start a dept to do it or private companies can assist for a percentage of rent.
[0:05 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: It will also solve housing problem for young couples waiting for their flat. Can get married earlier, hv more kids, solve aging society.
[0:16 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: These kinds of parents not very educated, hence not familiar/comfortable with taking loans against their asset and don’t want to burden their kids.
50yrs ago, landed property was relatively affordable $10-20k. An avg school teacher salary can buy landed property. Not like today’s prices.
[0:18 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: The straitstimes article describes these grp quite well.
[0:20 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Friendship and familiarity with the neighborhood discourage seniors from moving out.
[0:24 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Personal view is that taking a loan to fund retirement is risky. The interest on an unsecured loan will be high, and being unable to repay a bank loan for a secured loan may result in bank taking over the assets.
[0:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: 12 May, 2023
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
"Asking your wife to give birth or No Honey, No...?"
Analytics?
First happiness, one newly married couple just has a new born child and a new HDB home (a simple car?).
The mother of this child would have sacrificed two and half years of her economics productivity life!
Why so?
Assuming you need to gestate, recovery from birth, and nurture this child, it will amount to 2.5 years at the minimal! Multiply it from one to two or three or four! Lost years or a lost decade for these working mums!
So how could this mother continue to compete effectively in these digitised environments without losing to her peers which can either be a male or female colleague and the sector she is working i…
[0:44 pm, 12/05/2023] +Joseph Yap: π¬ What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
I applaud the move on 2023 COL Special Payment and Seniors’ Bonus, however I support the idea that the type of property they live in should be considered for COL Special Payment. This is to allow those staying in public housing to receive a greater allocation of assistance compared to those staying in private properties.
Be more careful on discretionary spending such as restaurant outings has helped me to deal with rising cost of living.
[0:49 pm, 12/05/2023] +Sam: When the asset is 3 to 4 millions, taking 300k out will not incur an interest that will accumulate to 3 to 4 million thus no chance of losing the property. Furthermore, the remaining years for the elderly is only probably 30 year. The cost of interest is the price that the children got to pay since they are not taking care of their elderly
[0:51 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: 12 May, 2023
To: Our Distinguished Leaders, All Policymakers and All Honorable Members
" The New Definition of Poverty and Loneliness"
" Short term helpings may not solve all problems; in short, it helps a little bit, there are solutions to survive well despite the challenges ahead...!"
- - anonymity
Prologue:
Sample Case(s)?
A senior age 75 years old. For the past 10 years has been drawing down from his CPF ordinary account of a monthly sum of $600 for his monthly living costs. Today his ordinary account is zerolised.
He lives in a 4rm flat and he has no intention to monetize his existing dwelling of over two decades and relocate to a 2rm flat or to sell a portion of the lease back to HDB nor he qualifies to rent a flat from HDB.
What's the rea…
[0:58 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: There are ways to solve the public housings and affordability issues!
Our HDB prices and the larger property markets will appreciate...!
[0:59 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: 90% of households will live in HDB flats, that will be the analytics, going forward....
[1:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: The Present value of money and the future value of gains....
[1:13 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Using the example of 500k worth of hdb, it is tough for the children to secure a personal Bank loan of 50k for the parent's retirement. Also, 50k from a medical perspective might not he sufficient for 30 yrs. The willingness of children is another factor. Will the new family support the parents of both of them to keep the loan for their own children's education?
[1:41 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: I believe there will change FY 2023 to 2030
Growth income will start standrard level salary start $2,xxx
1990s salary basic $800 or $1200 bough 4 room $1xxk no subsidy HDB. Everything is very odd job handcuffed and product operator.
[1:48 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: HDB will stay affordable bto and SBF
[1:55 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Hi Frankie,
Any idea how to remain affordable to the first time buyers?
Thank you.
[1:56 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: What if the children themselves find it tough to help their parents for whatsoever reasons?
Then how?
[1:58 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Support received grants core family nucleus and stay employee long term till they growth older retire.
[1:59 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Retirement age to 70 years old. France is 65 years old.
[2:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: How much will is the grant? And who qualifies?
[2:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
About 2.5 million adult Singaporeans will receive up to $400 in cash in June under the 2023 Cost-Of Living (COL) Special Payment to provide cost-of-living relief for Singaporean households, with more support given to lower- to middle-income groups. Among the 2.5 million eligible Singaporeans, some 850,000 seniors will receive an additional sum of up to $300 under the 2023 COL Seniors’ Bonus for additional support.
π¬ What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
π Eligibility Criteria for 2023 COL Special Payment
Citizens who are 21 years old and above in 2023, with an annual asses…
[2:02 pm, 12/05/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. At the backdrop of high inflation, the COL special payment really help. Greatly appreciate the Government help.
2. Hike in prices of day-to-day living expenses exert pressure on all the household that include :-
a. Cooked food prices - neighborhood coffeeshops, food court, hawker centre, f&b, fast food.
b. Electricity and energy prices.
c. Many goods and services - due to higher salaries paid to workers, rental, material costs and others.
3. Disbursement of the financial relief certainly help to cushion the rise in the living cost.
[2:03 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: $3-$4 million property, are we talking about private property?
What's the interest and principle amount on a month to month basis, and nowadays it is a floating interest rate.
One way to pledge one's property or rent it out maybe an even wise choice?
[2:04 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: How long will this inflation be? And prices once up, will they go down?
How much more COL can our system of helpings last?
Thank you.
[2:05 pm, 12/05/2023] +Umar M: It’s great that we have some help from the Government to offset the impact of GST increase. However, one may question whether said amount is sufficient due to drastic inflationary phenomenon globally.
[2:05 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: The child said to parent why not use a senior silver scheme allowance enough and GST voucher cash. There is a meal still on table.
Child growth has role dream wish to successfully business investment or they wish to be governor. Some do not it’s normal life.
[2:06 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: From a behavioral perspective, they may opt not to help or no longer get in touch.
[2:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL,
That's real!
Thank you.
[2:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: I think is a individual how much they get grant depending on income.
I would said core family nucleus + grant up to $50k + $50
[2:08 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Govt grant it?
[2:09 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Is it enough for 4 room cost $500k
20% down payment and grant
End loan is $300k because it’s income earn is enough
Wife and husband total $5k to $7k normal basic salary
[2:09 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Yes
[2:10 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Who wish to be higher position or investment to make money into business. Risk take or stress physical health
[2:11 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Frankie, you are spot on! Wow!
[2:11 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: $50,000 x 50,000 households
A big sum of money granted...
[2:11 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Annoymity beliefs in self-sufficiency and self checks...
[2:11 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Increase GST going to give out budget every year
[2:12 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: One way is GST, there are other ways to solve
[2:12 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: For this grant can’t be use for investment nor withdraw cash
[2:13 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: "You see, the CPF is the golden key to better living conditions...how to do it?
[2:13 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Then for what purposes then prohibited?
[2:14 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Let's brainstorm and deepen our discussion on ways to uplift this CPF
[2:17 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Then use CPF it money the housing for sale and move into studio room for care community. I understand it how feeling.
[2:21 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Proposing change in Employer Contribution to CPF
[2:21 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: For helping them decrease burden loan and help them save up CPF accrued interest
[2:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Using past money otherwise, using the present value of money to settle the future value of money....
[2:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Then vote wisely and voice to revise the CPF accordingly
[2:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: It's for the policymakers to decide... one way to increase this kitty or money pot, aka CPF!
[2:23 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: If you see the corresponding employee's contribution or deductions or take home pay... that's about it!
[2:23 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Policymaker need to change if the future is self sufficient.
[2:24 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: How to calibrate an increase in the business cost?
[2:24 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, no escaping or keep on giving out money.... using present value to solve present problems...
[2:25 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Government need to balance the calibration
-taxpayers
-rental
-investment corp
[2:25 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: The more you employ, the less your company tax, in stages! Carefully calculated!
[2:26 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Rental is a valuation issue
[2:27 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: We have 5.4m population in Singapore collect taxpayer and support GDP growth investment nett is higher
[2:27 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Can you see...we are encouraging employment and employability!
Do the maths of accounting profits, economic profits and opportunity costs comparatively with the too three closest competing nations and or sector to sector!
[2:28 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: GST is across the population tax regime.
GDP is a nation's worth!
[2:29 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Take in account an annual wage increase of up to 3%...
Peg with past and current quarter inflation, exports and generative economics...
[2:32 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Singapore's GDP - 1960 to 2023
[2:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Trajectory of growth...
[2:40 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Just compare money put in CPF vs money put in Singapore property.
Which gives u better returns?
$20K put in CPF, 4% compounded interest, 50 years later, worth $1.4M
$20K landed property 50 years ago, now worth at least $2-3M.
But at the end when u need the money, must harden heart, sell off property to monetise the gains to live on it.
[2:45 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Property price is linked to land price. Land is scarce in Singapore and government make developers bid for land. Hence, it will never go down.
[2:45 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: But HDB will depreciate in real value as it a lease
[2:46 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Exactly!
[2:46 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: if my caculation is correct 1 3 room in AMK is around 30,000 in 1990 , a bowl of noodles is 1.20
[2:46 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: 1st 50 years, I feel is ok.
[2:47 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: It more or less tracks land prices, but not as close as private because HDB factor in affordability based on wages.
[2:48 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: if u now tabulate should be same or lesser .
[2:49 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: do correct me if i am wrong . it just a data from my memory and paper.
[2:51 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: i think $30K AMK flat in HDB will probably cost around $400K now (10 times more).
$1.20 noodles in 1990, now cost about $5 (around 4 times more).
[2:52 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: depend on area and precoivd
[2:52 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Kopi-o $0.50
Chicken rice $2
20 years gain is fast today
[2:52 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: 30K is base on ave 5
[2:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: i remember is around 30K to 50K cant remember as too long and that time indomation not so vast
[2:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Of course I still remember at Rochor HDB 3room $95k in 1995
[2:54 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Old day kampung is cheap
[2:58 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: I just hope when I'm old enough, I'd be able to rent those small senior flat and at the same time allow me to rent out my HDB flat for income. The rent will go up with inflation. I can always be assured to be self sufficient financially. No need government for handouts. It'll be my golden goose where I just eat the eggs. Right now, with current policy, I need to kill the goose.
[2:59 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: This inflation is worldwide global affected from trade and sell to current market participants.
[3:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: If can’t change policymakers we will how to survive it as long as age is time
[3:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +Thomas: My FIL bought his 3 room flat for $15k. Now is $300 plus k
[3:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Business also suffer from the cost and margin profit is much lower
[3:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: ur is BTO but must use resale price as the method to caculate is different in both era.
[3:05 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: I am no good policymaker and can’t anyhow to comments here but considering careful in future.
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Where is the seed Money to play this property holding game?
Comparative Economics of property, say SG and Australia.
Over 40 years of holding a property will not yield higher returns when compared to SG! How about Malaysia?
Australia, there is a heavily weighted exit tax should you transfer out your Money!
How about Malaysia?
Finally, how foreign investors see these three examples and put their money to work?
Thank you Frankie for challenging this important point of investment.
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: All businesses have operational costs...
Businesses must identify the accounting costs and the eventual profits!
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Past value and present value and future value!
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: What if bigger war happens?
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Subsidies!
[3:07 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: 1st happiness of a growing economy or heated economy?
[3:08 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: HOW to cool off or soft land an economy without 80% of the population hurt?
[3:08 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: SG can do it, ask policymakers! They should know the mechanics to loosen or tighten areas of concern!
They have the up to date Data!
[3:08 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Just input your ideas, Frankie!
You can!
[3:09 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Can you tell STI index point
[3:09 pm, 12/05/2023] +KL: frankly for past 20 years SG don't have big IPO.
[3:09 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Going drop when it’s come crisis
[3:10 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: What you want to know?
[3:10 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: It’s going up hit STI 4,000 point it’s a wonderful we live in sg
[3:13 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: What if the Bank of Japan starts raising the interest rate?
Facts:
1) The Japanese core-core consumer price index* rose 2.3% in March.
2) Over the past decade, the Bank of Japan (BoJ) has expanded its balance sheet* to 120% of Japan’s GDP*.
Analysis:
1) The 2% inflation target is feasible to achieve. Indeed, the core-core inflation index registered only +2.3% last March. Nevertheless, that might be a sign of rising inflation.
2) The BoJ has historically kept interest rates at a low level, continuously applying an expansionary monetary policy* and hence expanding the balance sheet. However, Kazuo Ueda is the new BoJ governor. Due to inflation growth, he might introduce changes to the Japanese macroeconomic policy, such as an interest rate rise. That would imply a huge effect on the economy.
3) Although a rise in interest rates might attract investors, the BoJ might face several problems. BoJ owes more than half of Japanese bonds and a large amount of ETF* denominated in yen. If interest rates rise, then their prices will decrease. That would imply enormous losses to the BoJ: the value of its assets will shrink.
[3:14 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Frankie, start building your model from BoJ...
Next STI, HS, DJ
[3:17 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: For STI, Q3/Q4.
Should a dip in 10% in today's value, the resistance will be at this bottom of 10%.
Not to worry, no drastic meltdown for STI.
For HSI, up to 25% lost.
For Dow, the resistance is at 5%-8% intra week.
Hope all of it becomes true!
[3:18 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Likewise
[3:21 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: No worry, Andrew!
[3:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bloomberg/russian-central-bank-has--8.3-billion-held-in-switzerland/48501518
This is worrying!
[3:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Agree!
[3:23 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Did Pandora box and Panama papers bring out hidden assets of government, businesses individual!?
[3:29 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Already BOUGHT AND DONE!
Where are those ghost writers now?
[3:30 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: A bigger hot war may start!
Taking the Russians billions and helping Ukraine to rebuild...
How and what will the Russians react?
[3:31 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Such as?
[3:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Under the pv rule, the value of 1 dollar in the future is smaller than today value.
[3:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Hi SL,
Find ways starting from CPF...to solve housing and the final station of retirement.
Thank you
[3:34 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes Sir!
Use Maths to solve existential problems and livelihoods.
Thank you
[3:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: How will policymakers do?
[3:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Notes and thanks, a very ambitious target. Is this from the end user prospective?
[3:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Good question!?π€
[3:36 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: For more than a third of anonymous life, it has been PV and FV...and it will be!
[3:37 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: How to play this PV and FV game?
Do Policymakers know it or...?
[3:40 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: The saying goes, "the tougher it gets, the harder we go or we all go relax (and close the chat)?"
Thank you.
[3:41 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Present value and Future value!
Don't think about valuations, think how to enhance...
[3:45 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: I think in this world, govt aims for “economic growth, full employment, the balance of payment equilibrium, price stability and equitable distribution of income.” our leader does evaluate the opportunity and its associated risk to make sure we all are employed. Economic growth and price stability are crucial. The more subsidies government gives to a whole society, the higher inflation to anticipate (excluding the price distortion by uncommon reasons).
[3:50 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Fallacy of price equilibriums, incomes and equitable distribution of wealth.
SG has a purpose built and robust infrastructure both social and economics inherited from our 1G leaders!
Institutions and Internalization, two powerful elements!
SG is a small country and its abilities to turn multiple tangibles and hold onto a few intangibles to be rectified later.
What you have expressed is a major topic that requires pages of analysis and in-depth responses. It's not difficult but this chat is rather hard to explain the entire game plan from 30,000 feet high!
Thanks SL for your insights!
[3:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Exponential growth and incremental and incident costings...
Not a major concern so long the growth trajectory as previously shown, goes up and up...
Thanks SK
[3:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Sorry SL.
[4:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
About 2.5 million adult Singaporeans will receive up to $400 in cash in June under the 2023 Cost-Of Living (COL) Special Payment to provide cost-of-living relief for Singaporean households, with more support given to lower- to middle-income groups. Among the 2.5 million eligible Singaporeans, some 850,000 seniors will receive an additional sum of up to $300 under the 2023 COL Seniors’ Bonus for additional support.
π¬ What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
π Eligibility Criteria for 2023 COL Special Payment
Citizens who are 21 years old and above in 2023, with an annual asses…
[5:24 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors
We want to HEAR MORE from you!
π¬What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan π
[5:43 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: If we focus solely on the cost and exclude the net profit, 2 out of 3 pillars of the cost category may need to be adequately managed, the financial cost, the assets cost, and the resources cost. Theoretically, the variable and fixed costs keep as low as better, substitution, redesign, etc.
[5:45 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Rental increased driven by demand. Is it?
[6:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
About 2.5 million adult Singaporeans will receive up to $400 in cash in June under the 2023 Cost-Of Living (COL) Special Payment to provide cost-of-living relief for Singaporean households, with more support given to lower- to middle-income groups. Among the 2.5 million eligible Singaporeans, some 850,000 seniors will receive an additional sum of up to $300 under the 2023 COL Seniors’ Bonus for additional support.
π¬ What are your views on the 2023 COL Special Payment and other measures to help Singaporeans manage the cost of living? What changes, if any, have you made in your life to deal with the rising cost of living?
π Eligibility Criteria for 2023 COL Special Payment
Citizens who are 21 years old and above in 2023, with an annual asses…
[6:14 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: We need to issue this COL more often to help our seniors, especially many who can no longer work or find a simple job or have family members or children cannot help them financially.
This is a vulnerable group that MSF and MOF will share the burden and efforts in bridging these seniors to ensure the basic cost of living is under control.
[6:14 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Agree
[6:15 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: MANY thanks, Andrew!
Champion the vulnerable people regardless of age or gender.
Thank you.
[6:15 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Definitely
[6:16 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Start with the bottom 20% of income earners and or households.
Thank you.
[6:16 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: You may want to consider the assessment of q in the statistic, it helps in supporting the growth model in general.
[6:17 pm, 12/05/2023] +Frankie Wee: Excellent
[6:17 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Property growth in the business cycle is affected by external factors. Money in cpf is guaranteed secure.
[6:18 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, to addon, MTI and EDB will have the projectile, the coming quarters of numbers that is in and (out) flows of FDI plus M2 supply of the top five economic players.
Thanks SL.
[6:19 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, CPF is our first line of our micro economics.
Property is one
leading indicator of the state of the micro economies.
Job creations and jobs in the pipeline and jobs available in the waiting.
Thanks SL.
[6:20 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: In the past, Property bursts in the USA and overseas hurts investors property ruling in each country is different.
[6:20 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Thank you, Frankie!
We need to stand up for our fellow countrymen!
[6:21 pm, 12/05/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Changes make in life to deal with the rising cost of living
Food
1. This is what I observed some people are doing to deal with the rising cost of living.
2. I observed that some elderly eat out, they, bring their 3-in-1 coffee. Order a hot cup of water from the food court drink stall - some sell for 50 cents, some 20 cents, then they pour their 3-in-1 coffee in the hot water to enjoy their coffee in food court. They no longer order their coffee that can cost $1.70, $1.50 depending on which food court they are in.
3. I also observe the same elderly instead of ordering a normal meal, make his coffee as described above and buy one "youtiao" - fired twin stick or a sandwich as his lunch.
4. Also notice some elderly couple will buy food in food courts $6 and above meal, and share the meal between themselves - then it will cost on average $3 to $4 per person.
Transport
1. Some people like me use to own car, but has since sold my last car and take public transport like bus, MRT, occasionally taxi, private hire.
2. This have save me exorbitant car prices - eg. COE, road tax, car park, car insurance, car maintenance, petrol, ERP, and other car-related expenses.
Tour
1. Some people have cut down taking annual tour overseas but instead visit local attraction - which can save quite alot.
Electricity
1. Use to turn on air-con when weather is hot.
2. But power charges have spike - and force to use more hi-velocity fans to make up or bathe more often - instead of turning on the air-con - that can easily double the power charges - due to the high electricity prices.
[6:22 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, US and China are facing glut in both residential and especially commercial properties including factories and office space.
Not a real earth shaking concern but be aware of the coming two quarters.
Things have changed again for the past 48 hours. Into June, another big meeting.
[6:24 pm, 12/05/2023] +Anne: Some suggestions:
1) use household per capita to measure needs instead of income.
2) allow the seniors who live in private properties to rent HDB 1-room or 2-room flats to live in and rent our their private properties. Reasons to discourage the seniors from selling their private properties are -
a) seniors are susceptible to scams, hence having a large amount of money in their bank accounts means they risk having a huge portion of their wealth wiped out via scams
b) we are now living in high inflation era. Selling their private properties will also mean their wealth will be wiped out very rapidly
c) Some people are not used to a large amount of money in their bank accounts. This gives them an illusion of unlimited wealth and can cause them to overspend on luxuries instead of frugally on necessities.
3) Do not give the COL package in cash, but rather in CDC vouchers or subsidies in utilities bills.
4) Implement a ‘circular economy’ scheme in every housing estate whereby food is grown (eg rice and vegetables and mushrooms) and can be redeemed via food vouchers. Food waste is donated to make composts and food vouchers are given in return. Also can implement aquaponics and fish as food can be redeemed using food vouchers. I believe one housing estate in Tampines has already implemented this.
5) Allow HDB households to grow quails to get free eggs. Currently HDB households are not allowed to keep quails.
[6:25 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Perhaps through the cooperative effort, all kopitiiam should give a 10%20% discount for basic things like breakfast set to our seniors, lunch and dinner?
Who will drive this movement for our seniors? NTUC, TC or PA? Anyone?
Thanks, Danny for bringing up an important point.
[6:27 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Per capita measurement though is wholesome.
However, measuring Income on a monthly basis will have a more exact disposable Income per household or individuals.
Hope it sounds reasonable, thanks Danny.
[6:28 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Utilities bill is another sweet spot.
Thanks, Danny!
[6:28 pm, 12/05/2023] +Anne: I am not Danny.
[6:28 pm, 12/05/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Eat out
1. Weekdays will cook instead of eat out.
2. Weekends will eat out, but no longer go for the usual favourite food stalls that have increase price many times.
Source for other stalls that have keep the food prices reasonabble.
Groceries
1. Notice that groceries prices have also been increasing for many items even in NTUC fairprice.
2. No choice, still got to buy - because the increase in prices is across the board.
Shopping
1. WIndow shopping more, but buy less - only for items that are deem necessary.
[6:28 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Sequential logic or biological?
[6:30 pm, 12/05/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Woman loses $50k, left with $7 in bank account after downloading app to buy durians from Facebook.
https://stomp.straitstimes.com/singapore-seen/woman-loses-50k-left-with-7-in-bank-account-after-downloading-app-to-buy-durians
[6:30 pm, 12/05/2023] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Most important don't get scam.
[6:31 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: One SILENT method is between NTUC and policymakers to subsidize basic necessities from vegetables to rice bread, chicken and eggs.
WILL OTHER GROCERIES CHAIN RETALIATE?
[6:31 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Possibly in their own way
[6:32 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Silent OPS!
[6:32 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Boj example is unique, as no other central bank in this world use the ycc method that fixed short-term and 10 yrs interest rate. That ycc cause a lot of issue for boj, the jpn economic activities is not able to refresh itself.
[6:32 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: July, have to pay $0.05 per plastic bag!
[6:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Suggest to ignore boj model and focus on others. π
[6:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: It all started in 1990! No turning back for the Japanese!
[6:33 pm, 12/05/2023] +Rama: Expect elderly uneducated to kick up a fuss nation wide
[6:34 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Not applicable to any nation.
Please read the Japanese economies from 1970-1990.
What happened?
You will understand it.
[6:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Added cost!
However, after six months or so, 80% will forget the whole matter!
That's how human short term memory works.
Thanks, Andrew
[6:35 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: That is the lost 30yrs of jpn after the plaza accord?
[6:37 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: You got one part rite!
SL, you are simply smart!
Thank you.
[6:38 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: I think that's an ineffective policy to reduce plastic waste but an exercise just to tax consumers more.
[6:38 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Pair it against the four tigers of Asia...you will see it even clearer!
[6:39 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: It will be forgotten sooner than later, just like a passing thunderstorm.
Thanks, Kenneth!
[6:39 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Messed up big time and today you see it...
[6:39 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: i hope so!
then we can see true competition that would help reduce our costs.
now NTUC is propping up prices because they need to pay their members dividends.
[6:40 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Dividends in anonymity mind is...
Divide and End
[6:41 pm, 12/05/2023] +Kenneth Lee WM: Imagine if we are allowed to buy "Bak Kwa" from Malaysia, all the bak kwa prices in Singapore would come down to earthly prices.
[6:41 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Have to see how global inflation goes, the UK, the EU, the Japanese and so on...it has a direct impact on all countries
[6:42 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: The BK sellers will BBQ you! (Joke)
Thanks, Kenneth.
[6:45 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[6:48 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: I agree. Also about the solution, it is a very compact model that involved too many areas, something above 30k feet, which is very hard to explain in just a few words. π
[6:49 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Anonymity has all compact somewhere, cloud?
[6:49 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Regardless of race too?
[6:50 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Greetings to all Mothers, it's Mother's Day weekend!
Have a pleasant weekend!
[6:50 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes, Sir!
[6:51 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: For item #2, I brought my own bottle of water and not ordering a drink from shop.. More healthy and save money as well.
[6:52 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: One money saving and healthy way!
[6:52 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Sharing of food or consolidating 2 meals into 1 meal work as well.
[6:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Environmental friendly and go green too
[6:53 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Yes Sir!
[6:54 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: I agree. I m waiting for the result of a model to be validated with a live outcome. π
[6:54 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: What result are you anticipating?
[6:56 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: Usually, it takes up to a year for a policy to see fruition or gain footing... fastest is around 6 months.
[6:56 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: The meeting is normal, but the outcome of the action is more important. East is waiting for the west action to assess whether the latter said is actionable?π€·♂️
[6:57 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: There is a slight chance for the environmental issues between the two!
It will be a pretext for a more open discussion on others tougher and sensitive economics issues...
Watch John Kerry movement.
[6:59 pm, 12/05/2023] +Smiley face: 12 May, 2023
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
"Transformations and the Fallacy of Success!"
" One in Three will face job changed or immediate axed; One in Five will lose their jobs regardless of past experience or skills"
- - anonymity
The Past?
For the past four decades, the global labor force has undergone many changes (transformations), in each decade you will find old jobs gone, new jobs created and productivity improved.
Income or wages wise, it is relative decade onto decade, though it's incremental at the same time inflation of goods and services eroded or equalised the wages of the majority of the global labor force from the backdrop of a lowered cost of productions.
The older workers gave way to the younger workers…
[7:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
[7:00 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: Go green..
[7:01 pm, 12/05/2023] +SL: 2 diff story line I though?
=====
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