REACH 303 - What are your views on the latest property cooling measures to keep housing affordable for Singaporeans? (SK)
17 Dec 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
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[10:00 am, 17/12/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
A sustained rise in property prices despite the Covid-19 pandemic has prompted the authorities to introduce cooling measures from 16 Dec (Thu) that will see property buyers paying higher stamp duties.
Minister for National Development Desmond Lee said the new measures are aimed at addressing both the demand and supply of housing, and will help to support a stable and sustainable property market in the medium term, and also ensure that housing remains affordable for Singaporeans.
He noted a clear upward trend in prices and transaction volumes despite the near-term uncertainty about Covid-19. "Left unchecked, prices are likely to run ahead of economic fundamentals. This will increase the risk of a destabilising correction later on that will hurt many households," he added.
💬 What are your views on the latest property cooling measures to keep housing affordable for Singaporeans? Are you a prospective home buyer? If so, how have the measures impacted you?
📌 What you need to know about the new property-cooling measures: https://str.sg/3YGY
The additional buyer's stamp duty (ABSD) that must be paid for purchases of residential properties will be raised from 12 per cent to 17 per cent for citizens buying their second residential property, and from 15 per cent to 25 per cent for those buying their third and subsequent properties. PRs and foreigners buying their second residential properties will also see increases from 15 to 25 per cent and 20 to 30 per cent respectively.
The total debt servicing ratio (TDSR) for borrowers will also be tightened from 60 per cent to 55 per cent. The TDSR limits the amount that a person can spend on monthly debt repayments.
HDB loans will also be lowered from 90 per cent to 85 per cent of a property's purchase price. This will apply to those buying a new flat in HDB's sales exercises launched from Dec 16 onwards, as well as to resale flat buyers, specifically for complete resale applications that are received by HDB from Dec 16 onwards.
To cater to genuine demand from home buyers and address their anxieties, the supply in both the private and public housing markets will be increased, with up to 23,000 Build-To-Order (BTO) flats to be launched each year in 2022 and 2023.
👉🏼 https://str.sg/3Y5k
👉🏼 https://str.sg/3YGV
👉🏼 https://str.sg/3Yfx
👉🏼 https://str.sg/3YGC
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[10:24 am, 17/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Interest rate poise to increase in 2022.
2. Fed announce 3 rate hikes in 2022, the 1st likely to be in May 2022 and tapering of mass bond purchases.
3. Hence the measures to cool property purchase price come timely - to prevent buyers from over borrowing and laden with high debt and the need to service higher interest.
4. This is to preempt housing bubble to form and break like what happen in China property sectors as well as US previous subprime housing crisis - that trigger global financial and economic recession.
[10:32 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: Would also be interesting to explore a property inheritance tax being introduced, perhaps only when there is more than 1 property, or the inheritee already owns a property.
[10:33 am, 17/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
5. Introducing cooling measures now, will also protect our banks and financial institutions from overexposure to eager borrowers who may overborrow but unable to repay debts or default - when our economy, business and jobs are still recovering from the pandemic.
6. Hence at macro level and micro level, the cooling measures come timely to prevent housing bubble from forming and subsequently bursting.
[10:41 am, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: I welcome All the cooling measurers.
But i feel still not enough to cool Hdb market!
Even though Now many people end up selling HDB if they want to buy to Private, many Will still.hold on to it.
I was expecting Some more like Restricting SPRs for 5 years instaed of current 3 years waiting.
As when locals paying hefty Taxes to own multiple properties, many PRs holds hdb and Invests in their own countries happily.
And as i said before i am not sure how many Cases HDB has found where PRs holds properties else where and Still buys HDB here, despite the rule states that one can not buy HDB if they own any Real property else where in the world!
Apart from this i totally support new cooling measures
[10:50 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: and maybe this property inheritance tax only applies to non-Citizens to reduce money flow out of Singapore.
[11:03 am, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Also Many PRs who left country are still.holding on HDBs ..
But rule says otherwise
Sometimes agents like me are suffering who follow rules strictly!
[11:06 am, 17/12/2021] +JC: I agree with the cooling measures but there should be stronger measures to tax the inflow of money from overseas into our property market.
One of main drivers of local property prices is because many foreigners are looking to "park" their money (sometimes of questionable sources) in Singapore via the private market. This creates a trickle down effect which feeds itself and creates a bubble due to understandable FOMO mindset.
We should treat this issue much more seriously as it can create significant social-economic divide in Singapore in the longer run and encourages capital/manpower into rent-seeking, non-productive side of the economy.
[11:11 am, 17/12/2021] +No evil: PRs status should be forfeited if a person is away from spore more than a certain period.
[11:13 am, 17/12/2021] +Anthony: The only way to make it more affordable HDB flat, must be equally the same no matter downtown area or new housing estate,
All liased in HDB board & Government once set a example & implement that idealogy
Price wil sure go down well ,
It's time for our People mindset mustdrastically change, otherwise this wil happens again in our lifetime to see booming price for our HDB resale flat
[11:13 am, 17/12/2021] +Timothy Low: I agree with all the cooling measures except on that part on TDSR. It will be very difficult for the younger generation to afford a house at a earlier stage.
[11:15 am, 17/12/2021] +No evil: Some PR are renting out their apartments here but in fact they are staying in their own country.
Another form of revenue for them.
[11:21 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: And perhaps when they want to unpack their money there is a risk of a housing price crash....?
[11:22 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: It is. PR has to he renewed every 5 years. Cannot renew if not in the country and/or not employed by a Singapore company.
[11:22 am, 17/12/2021] +JC: Which is a wonderful cooling measure 🤣
[11:23 am, 17/12/2021] +RH: Agree.
Younger gen buying house for 1st time shd hv additional help or additional subsidy to purchase their first home, be it BTO or Resale.
For those who hv only started out in their jobs for 3 years or so and wanting to settle down, these cooling measures only serve to move the line further from attaining their goal.
Whatever happened to making HDB flats 'affordable' for 'everyone' ?
As for Resale, the pricing index may be a guide for home buyers but at the rate the sellers set their prices, it's ridiculous to see homes gg for a million dollars!
One shd not be profiting fr an HDB flat, since the concept behind this is for every Singaporean to hv a roof over their heads.
Ther shd be a "recommended price" Cap (?) if possible, for various HDB flat types & in different estates...
Perhaps this can also help curb the selling price of Resale flats from getting over inflated (esp thru the seller's greed).
[11:23 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: A bit dramatic maybe! A cool breeze rather than a snowstorm is preferable. 😁
[11:24 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: It's not always greed, if the seller want to move then the place they are buying will also have risen in cost.
[11:24 am, 17/12/2021] +JC: I feel SG is getting too reliant on speculative money.
[11:26 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: Economies are all now driven by debt and credit (thank the US in 1971 for that!) We can get back to better Economic policies by slowly, cautiously adopting crypto currency and decentralised finance. 👍
[11:26 am, 17/12/2021] +JC: I think we need to brace for short term pain for long term sustainability. Otherwise, piece meal measures might not do e trick.
[11:29 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: Yes, my reservation is that we are in unpredictable economic times. The impact of covid is perhaps only just starting.
[11:29 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: I fear it will be brutal.
[11:30 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: There is no way such a global catastrophe will not have huge economic impact.
[11:30 am, 17/12/2021] +JC: Wah that's out of my wheelhouse 😅 but yes hoping for a more sensible future, where manpower/talent/money are directed to more productive areas rather than to speculative/rent-seeking areas
[11:30 am, 17/12/2021] +No evil: Some PR are holding on to their status even though they are settled abroad.
They travel here to renew their PR status by paying a sum to agent company - a loophole the authorities should look into
[11:30 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: 👍
[11:30 am, 17/12/2021] +BL: Yes indeed!
[11:39 am, 17/12/2021] +RH: Gov building more houses to ease housing supply ....
... except tt when this happens, the gov dictates where they want to build.
Unfortunately, it is announced tt the new sites being looked at are in Jurong / Tengah / Kallang.
To me, one is too far West (me live in East), one is an experimental town tt gov wants to play with, the last is in town area wher the price of the flats is gg to be higher than the rest (and therefore make money for gov?) ...
Wat abt devt in the East, where I live. My son has bn trying to get a BTO near me but ther r no new BTO Devt here, or very limited.
From wat I hv observed, the gov seems to be focussing more on Land Sales here in the East... Build more condos here, rather than hv more HDB in this locale.
"Increasing housing supply" sounds nice, but Not when the houses are not in our location of choice!
So, how can u (gov) expect young ppl to take up these new housing in an area tt they r not comfortable with, and where they cannot afford to buy, without the gov subsidies
since the young ppl r just starting out in their jobs,
and their parents live in the East (proximity grant), which they cannot tap into if they buy ur BTO in the abv mentioned estates tt u r gg to build?
I m sure ther r many equally frustrated young buyers, in similar situation like my son, who wud like a solution to this dilemma.
Can the Gov look into this & perhaps gv us a solution?
(Resale flats are off since the prices r way too high at the mo).
Part of the reason to buy BTO is becoz the young people's financial resources r limited but needs time to grow, as they grow into their jobs.
[1:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Boon: Dear REACH, the latest cooling measures - including TDSR - are appropriate and reasonable 👍. Commendable that the govt agencies have decisively moved (with warnings as far away as 6 months ago) to rein in this growing cost for families and the society, that is also big money for the developers.
[1:11 pm, 17/12/2021] +Boon: What is “affordable” though? The prices between HDB flats and private ones have continued to blur - with million dollars HDB flats not an uncommon news.
[1:20 pm, 17/12/2021] +Boon: “Affordability” is important because it concerns mortgages taken and paid by disposable income and CPF - which impacts consumption, retirement abilities and welfare needs. The profits earned by the property industry and by those who can afford cannot be at the expense of a poorer govt or society.
[1:22 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: The major issue now is As Govt Encouraging to buy only Newer or Units with Long lease,
Crazily prices gone higher for JUST MOP FLATS.
Where as many Places older flat especially less than 60 years leade unable to sell, or make any profit.
I believe this is the wrong move.
Every one Wants New and long leases, actually now HDB price increased also only in that segement.
Rest all prices not increased that much
[1:22 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: IMO biggest mistake is Putting Cpf rule for HDBs
For Less lease.
[1:23 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: I suggest Govt To reconsider this,
Just because Few prople wants to bet on ENBLOC penalising majority is a huge mistake.
[1:31 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: The housing policies is not helping the singles… as the population of single gets bigger… hopefully it won’t translate to votes swings
[1:31 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: To me it not helping at all, why marriage have to be the consideration to get a public housing paid by all tax payers
[1:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: I do wonder if the additional housing was inclusive of singles?
And how the govt will ensure the singles will not be marginalized
[1:40 pm, 17/12/2021] +RH: My concern also.
[2:24 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Hard to find a private flat for a million though.... a few $1m HDB maybe but that's v rare.
[2:25 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Interesting point. What happens when lenses start to run out and/or hdb cannot be sold because lease is too short. How does someone move without buying a second home and renting out the first?
[2:26 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Yea, this is v old fashioned. Build more suitable for singles and sharers.
[2:28 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: Actually the govt can't babysit everyone on these details right? Buyers should be aware of the remaining lease on each property and assess their willingness to pay accordingly. If they buy a property that has a short remaining lease and have problems reselling it, it's not exactly the govt (and taxpayers') problem!
[2:48 pm, 17/12/2021] +Riviere Condo: Got a few
[2:50 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: If someone bought a property years ago and the lease now has 20 years left they won't be able to sell it. If they need to move, for example to be near kids, then what do they do?
[2:50 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[2:51 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: If the theory is that gov can't babysit people then just leave it all to all to the market. Do you think they should scrap HDB?
[2:55 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: If gov policy is described as "babysitting" why do you agree with cooling measures?
[3:00 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Some owners facing issues because of this policy
Infact we too sufferd
When we bought no such rule, but when we are sellng this rule came.
For us not much loss.. but Many others sufferd/suffering a lot
This Cpf rule infact is VERY UNFAIR for HDB
When Contributing cpf every one feels OA they can use for housing!
But suddenly to cool market Govt brings out something like this...fundamentally not right IMO
(Sorry for my harsh words)
[3:00 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: First of all, there is no such HDB - left with 20yr lease - in Singapore. The oldest HDBs in SG were built in 1960. So, today, it would still have almost 40 years left on the lease.
Assuming, the owner was in his/her 20s in 1960, he/she would be in his/her 80s already. Does it make sense to move near they kids only now? Or does it make more sense to move in with their kids?
Also, the flat would have cost them less than $20k. More likely than not, fully paid up years ago.
What else do you want to do? 😂😂😂😂
[3:00 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: It does not have to be binary
[3:01 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: If this rule is from day1
Or When we strat contributing cpf
Then Deffinatly yes
[3:01 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: After we buying then They say is like ... I feel Its totally unfair
[3:01 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Policies/rules can't remain unchanged unfortunately
[3:02 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: yeah agree. If the govt were to cater to all these specific needs, then no amount of budget/policies can satisfy everyone.
[3:02 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: And as i said Hdb Prices are not Equally raising in all segment.
There is So much division
Just that as when comes to Data AVGcomes out, many people not fully aware of it...whats happening on the ground.
For condos, Most of the times equally increasing..
[3:03 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: No one can predict into infinity so that the first rule made will be relevant forever.
The consideration is more about relevance. Unfortunately, some will win, while others will lose.
[3:04 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: cos cooling measures are dealing with a macro issue of housing price inflation. It's not implemented to make it easier for everyone to get the flat they want, at the price they want, at the time they want... it's simply to prevent a speculative bubble from forming which would make it harder even for non-speculative homeowners to purchase a home to stay.
[3:04 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Half truth sorry
Many Old flats are occupied by Younger generation as well..
So your calculations only applies to First owner.
There are Many many Owners who bought flats in resale market
[3:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
I totally agree
But policy should beneift the majority
Not the other way round
[3:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: but isn't that by choice? if young couple buy flat with 60 years remaining lease (and I know of a few personally) - it's a gamble they are willing to take, based on their own personal circumstances.
[3:06 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Example we bought in 2012 Also few of my clinets
That time no rule
Now want to sell
Then issue
[3:06 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Also Thats what i am saying Govt encouring everyone to buy Newer newer flats
[3:06 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: ya.. that sux for you guys but if no rule change, then everyone's screwed.
[3:06 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Just Mop flats
[3:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: And for these younger generation, they bought in with their eyes open.
If you did not do your homework in advance, and find yourself in a pickle now, why should the Govt and other more prudent people be made to bail u out??
They bought the older/matured estates for the location/convenience etc. They did enjoy it while it lasted didn;t they?
[3:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Now majority screwed
[3:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: just to clarify... what do you mean by "screwed"?
[3:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: And it is not a half truth. It was in response to a very specific scenario that someone painted
[3:08 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: we may not have the same definition haha
[3:09 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: I bot my home around the same time (2011), but as I bot it without the intention to flip/upgrade, the rule changes don't affect me. I assume you guys are looking to sell/upgrade?
[3:09 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Sorry the same meaning of this
[3:10 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: ah, when I say everyone's screwed, I meant runaway housing inflation.
I think when you say majority screwed, I think you meant, most people can't sell/upgrade easily?
[3:11 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: The Govt had been warning EVERYONE about the property bubble in earnest for about the last 10 years. They even took incremental steps to cool the market. Did these "majority" listen?
Amongst ALL the friends and people I spoke to in the past 10+ years whenever the topic of property came up, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them insisted that property prices in SG will only go up. This is despite the Govt EXPLICITLY warning everyone to re-think and re-calibrate their thinking about SG property. So...whose fault is it?
[3:11 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: It is not about That
I said The differences in price increase is Not same
Meaning What people thinking about HDB prices increased..
Is Not the entire truth
[3:12 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: We bought 2 room as that time our salary can only afford that
And later my girl growing up, we have to upgrade
And i believe many people Will come under similar category
[3:13 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: I don;t really get what you are saying...
Are you saying, just because WHAT YOU THOUGHT should happen in the future did not materialise, then it is the GOVT's fault?
[3:14 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: I am talking only about HDB resale here.
And i agree to your View as well
My sentiments also same
[3:15 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: yes, this is what I see in my circle as well.
There are many people who became "unwitting" asset millionaires cos they bought BTO just before the crazy housing price spike back in the 2000s - frees them up to keep flipping property from there on for easy money.
Younger folks like me missed the boat on that...
[3:17 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: The truth is, the Govt will not be able to save everyone WHEN the property market eventually "corrects".
That is why they had been trying so hard the last 10+ years to warn everyone to be more prudent, and when that still did not work, they put in the cooling measures to restrict and slow down the buying frenzy.
[3:18 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Maybe all they can afford?
[3:18 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: ugh, that's a tough situation. Thanks for clarifying.
Are current 4-5 room HDB options now out of reach for your family even with housing grants etc.?
i guess from a policy level, the best govt can do is to provide more choices for folks like you - in terms of cost/location/size - and also to have some cooling measures so that these choices can remain affordable for u.
[3:19 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: My observation, is that the majority of people actually buy what they can AFFORD TO BORROW, rather than what they can AFFORD.
[3:19 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: And that is the problem
[3:20 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Yes, this is where gov policy can be effective. Taking care of everyone, not ignoring those who 'missed out'
[3:20 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: hmm that's if they completely have no choice.... but they made choices. Homes with low lease remaining are all resale so means they can't wait for BTO or don't like the BTO choices available. The couples I know bought those flats usually due to family proximity, work proximity and/or hope for en-bloc. At the same price, they can get BTO but they didn't want.
[3:21 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: We can afford also gladly i habe choosen area where i can get for less pricy as i am agent myself.i am talking about other owners
[3:22 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: 👍 that's great... I guess it's all part of the calculation. If you are poor, you have less choices - the govt tries to help a bit but you won't be perfectly happy with the options.
This applies also to things like healthcare.
[3:23 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: I fully suppory cooling measures
Stated in the begining as well.. my concern is for Low and middle income families.. For rich if they can afforf multiple properties increase of 5% or 10% Tax does not matter much.
They just take time to digest the new rules and eventually they will be OK to pay that extrq tax... This is what happend before will happen in future as well
[3:24 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Agree... Just that Cpf Rule for HDB i still feel unfair
Instead stop those buying Mutliple Properiets where Rich people using CPF to buy More and more
No point to put this rule for HDB
As Cpf and HDB fundamental Policy is to make sure every one has roof over head
[3:26 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: I've already given up on being concerned with the rich getting richer... that's almost impossible to avoid. :(
But agree that some exceptions could be made for lower income families to get an acceptable level of public housing for their needs.
Again, it's like healthcare - if you are poor, govt pay for you for C class ward, can't choose your doctor. Just pray hard that the junior doctor that's assigned to you is capable, but most of the time, they can do the job.
[3:27 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Restrict usgae of CPF for condos
Not for Hdbs
Regardless of Years of lease left
This is what i want to convey, When upgrading or downgrading in HDB ITSELF, theu should not get affected by CPF Rules..
[3:27 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: Interesting idea... worth considering!
[3:27 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes...
[3:29 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes i hope it happens..
[3:30 pm, 17/12/2021] +JC: I think in general, most people would agree that public housing should be homes and not vehicles to make us rich.
This was one of the principles govt applied when they came up with the rules for prime location HDB... Perhaps they can extend that to broader policy measures across the board.
Some of the younger folks without rich parents will find it hard to upgrade but no choice la. Cannot please everyone.
[3:35 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: And they basically increase the rent to cover the extra costs
[3:35 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Yes, cpf should only be available for single property.
[3:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: +1
[3:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Agreed
[3:44 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: +1
[3:51 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Haven't read most of the earlier comments/feedback yet...so excuse duplicate feedback if any...
I think the Govt should seriously consider completely removing the speculative element for HDB housing. There are a few ways (in combination) I think this can be done:
1. Sell low/cheap to eligible buyers - criteria tweaked to support Govt's longer-term goals eg. family formation? More children?
2. Remove speculative element - NDB flats CANNOT be resold. It has to be returned to the Govt if the owner wants to move on. Prices/valuation can be a function of national/official inflation rates + depreciation etc
3. Reduce the lease to only 30 years with corresponding price reduction. Owners can opt (first right of refusal) to extend by purchasing in 30yr terms when…
[3:57 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: For Hdb to be affordable to everyone my suggestions
1. Restrict PRs buying either increasing waiting time from 3to 5years or more.
2. Restrict Rich PRs, with incoming ceiling for Resale HDB (not all PRs are rich.. )
The rich PRs Who buy HDB most of the times own properties else where, also They Keep investing In theor countries
So Just do not let them Buy HDB at all.
3. Revoke the plocies regarding Restricting CPF usage for Public housing for Older flats.
(Those who purposely pay Millions for Older flats for Hoping of Enbloc, ignore them as they are very less in number,)
So plz revoke Cpf restrictions
4. For HDB
For PRs
Publish Data (or incidents may hide Persons involved for security reasons(like how they publish Agents Who committer crime)) about PRs who illegally Rent out whole flats and who Didnt sold their flats despite not staying there (for n number of years) and who owns property else where but still buy HDB here with out disclosing it.
This will deffinatly deter rich PRs buying HDB.
5. Hdb should be for the people who really needs it... Increase MOP of new flats all together, or implement wealth tax if sold in Much higher profits.
[3:58 pm, 17/12/2021] +CQ: I agree with your #2 and 3! #4 might be tough because reducing CPF and loan quantum will mean that buyers will need more cash upfront, which will be tough for the young couples who haven't been working for that long.
But yeah, HDB resale generates a huge lottery effect. Just look at the likes of Pinnacle@Duxton. The ones who managed to ballot for a place there really struck toto.
[4:04 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: In the first place, prices went up because it was getting increasingly easier to own it, starting with the changes to CPF to allow it to be used for housing loans, to increasing up to 100% of CPF to be used to service housing loans, to low mortgage rates (which are not controlled by MAS).
Its exactly the same situation with cars - now we again have financing options that circumvents MAS' restrictions on car loans - and luxury purchases - fueled by unsecured instalment plans and more recently, buy-now-pay-later options.
Everyone is spending tomorrow's projected income, today.
[4:04 pm, 17/12/2021] +Timothy Low: No I don’t agree on this. I as a single need to use CPF to pay for my private apartment, as I’m under the age of 35 and I need to have a place on my own due to personal circumstances. Without the use of CPF I would still be living with my family in a two bedroom hdb flat
[4:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: I am saying for multiple Condos restrcit
Not for the One Unit :)
[4:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Any one Who bought one to stay should not be penalised ...
As Cpf also Its the persons hard earned money .
But Allowung it to use for multiple properties is biggest issue
[4:06 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: If EVERYONE cannot use CPF to service the purchase, it means NATIONWIDE, the ability to pay the current (high) prices will have to be adjusted down. Think about it....
[4:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Its one the reason why the same product in SG, costs much less just across the border
[4:07 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Prices - beyond cost of production - are dictated by the consumers' ability and willingness to pay
[4:26 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[4:28 pm, 17/12/2021] +BL: Agreed.
[4:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[4:38 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[4:40 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: You can't have your cake and eat it too. Want to choose location AND dictate price as well? How does that work? 😂
[4:54 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: I don't know any of these buyers are paid more than a Million for resale HDB flats with 80 years or less lease left, but my guess would be that most of these people are retirees (50,60, 70yo?) who cashed out on their multi-million $ properties.
Imagine you are 60yo, kids all grown up, have their own families and moved out of your 2000/3000sqft, 30yo FH condo/landed home.
Now left with old couple, that amount of space is no longer feasible, in fact, hard to maintain.
Seeing that most condos are transacting at 1500psf or more, it makes sense to cash out and collect 4-5 million by selling.
Being used to a certain amount of space, the jumbo flats/HDB PH at 1 million looks like a steal to this group of buyers. Now they have the space, relative exclusivity, an…
[4:59 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: I disagree.
This is the right move by the Govt which will force the prices to correct lower. In fact, this creates a new segment/alternative for buyers. Lower price for shorter lease rather than tie yourself into a long lease (and higher price and bigger loan) for something which most will never hold till maturity.
[5:08 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: It has always been the Govt's intention to use subsidised property ownership as an incentive to promote family units and procreation ie. increasing our birth and replacement rate.
Policies may shift further to support Single Parents... but unlikely so for Singles. Besides, there are no lack of options in the private property segment for Singles who want to own their own space.
[5:10 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Govt is not marginalising Singles...rather, it is INCENTIVISING creation of family, population replacement, increasing birthrate., hence, it is a subsidy, not a penalty when it comes to Govt housing assistance.
[5:13 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: not all singles are rich and could afford private property... and if i'm not wrong, all taxpayer helps to subsidised the housing..
[5:14 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: this is the same questions as non-road users paying for roads infra but they do use public transport
[5:14 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: for housing, NO
[5:14 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: You can't .. and that is the risk you take into consideration BEFORE you buy one
[5:15 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: this is considered marginalized, my friend...
akin you don married then you don get it..
[5:16 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: As i am working in the filed..
I can surely say that Prices didnt get corrected
Infact more demand for just MOP/ newer flats like less than 10 yrs old Increased prices tremendously.
Where as old ones Unable to sell :)and what ever the Price increment these days happend was due to Just Mop flats
Kindly look for data available on HDB site
[5:16 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: There are private condos that are comparable in price to HDB flats if price is really a concern. Like I keep saying, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Alternatively, consider renting while building up sufficient $ to purchase.
[5:16 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: please look at the stats
[5:19 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: Problem is that URA/hdb not releasing any Data of Price/Number of units sold as per age of Flats. So many were not Aware of Full facts what actually happening in HDB resale market!
[5:23 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: you saying if i'm buying a HDB 4rm (3 room) vs a 3 room condo will be the same price?
please share the lobang!
[5:24 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: not sure if you are a young or old friend, but having spending 10 years in Australia, the fairness without distinction of marital status, orientation and political direction
[5:26 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: As we are 90% public housing vs 80% private housing in other countries while the grant not a lot but at least is fair for all!
https://www.firsthome.gov.au/
[5:28 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 2 sides of the same coin, friend.
Unfortunately, that is now the status quo, and there are valid reasons to maintain it.
[5:29 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: ya la... but i can only say the sandwich layer which are singles are getting hit hard... this will affect how we think in 2025 as we assumed we are not taken after :P
[5:30 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: I believe it will take time for people to realise what is going on and for prices to correct/adjust accordingly.... just like how some of those who previously bought quaint resale HDBs in Tiong Bahru are realising that it may not have been such a good idea anymore 😅
[5:32 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Everyone has their vote and should use it accordingly. Will be worried if THAT is the main consideration. Besides, I didn't realise any Opposition/Alternative party was campaigning to change this status quo... or maybe I wasn't paying attention. 😅
[5:35 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: 2011 was it
[5:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Not enough support for it then in that case
[5:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: every person have different agenda, some might the work, life or housing :)
for me is housing haha
[5:36 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: 🤣
[5:50 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: 15 years Old ?????
[5:51 pm, 17/12/2021] +Rama: 😱😨😳
[5:51 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: It has been Few years already ...
[5:52 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/2020-census-more-singles-singapore-all-age-groups-rate-population-growth-slowest-1970
[5:54 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Exactly ... so even with this "disadvantage" people are still choosing to remain single ... for a Govt that views population growth/replacement as a key pillar of our survival/growth as a nation, why are you surprised that this is not going away anytime soon?
[5:58 pm, 17/12/2021] +Elena Woo: Because of rising costs. Even my husband and I feel the financial strain with only 1 baby onboard and dropped thoughts of having 2nd baby at the moment.
[6:02 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: I will stop here as i already state my position :)
i can't help to just think about the vaccination, when the majority vaccinated then measures was implemented to unvaccinated..
likewise if singles tips the scales, then maybe something will change..
The proportion of singles:
among men aged 25 to 29 went up from 74.6 per cent to 81.6 per cent
Among women aged 25 to 29, it jumped from 54 per cent to 69 per cent
Among men aged 30 to 34, the proportion increased from 37.1 per cent to 41.9 per cent
Among women aged 30 to 34, it rose from 25.1 per cent to 32.8 per cent
[6:03 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: no point argue and i respect each and everyone's healthy discussion :)
[6:04 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: If the Govt does not do anything to change the ridiculous Education Primary school system we have in place, and the credit fueled property prices, our national birth rate will continue to drop. No amount of subsidy is worth bringing another life into a world where their childhood is going to be filled with endless enrichment/tuition classes, heartaches and tears from ridiculously difficult tests/exams which have no real world relevance, and after finally overcoming all these challenges, to be implicitly told that they are not as good as that Foreigner who somehow is better qualified than them.
[6:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +CQ: Hear hear!!
[6:05 pm, 17/12/2021] +Desmond: 💯
[6:15 pm, 17/12/2021] +Rama: Good point to reflect on.
[6:17 pm, 17/12/2021] +Paddy: 👍🏼
[6:20 pm, 17/12/2021] +Suma pamu: +1
100% agree
[6:30 pm, 17/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/olQsqhUB7HI
400,000 Sq Ft land
1500 new flats
More than 10,000 new residents?
[6:34 pm, 17/12/2021] +Joseph: Watch China closely... the great reset, outlawing Tuition Centres, punishing Property Developers for price gouging, and penalising businesses that rely on national resources - be it data or branding - and yet do little to return the favour and contribute towards national progress, could be a template for our own revamp.
For too long, we have asked the people for sacrifices towards the greater good and progress of our nation, and we have heeded the call. Many have benefitted, but even more have been left behind. And the gap is growing.
Maybe its time to build inwards, to support and lift our own for the longer term good, at the expense of short-term gains/metrics that mean little to the majority.
Start with our early education system. Something is wrong…
[6:42 pm, 17/12/2021] +Smiley face: 17 December, 2021
To: Distinguished Ministers And All Honorable Members
"Producer of Public Goods - The HDB Journey"
BACKGROUND:
In the first quarter of the twentieth century, under the clouds of Colonialism, the British housing scheme (SIT) was a slow progression and an unfulfilling attempts to house the population then into a proper fit. At the start of 1960, a plain white sheet approach of the young government then, the idea of "home ownership', a social safety net, started with HDB aggressive purpose-built flats to meet the demand of the growing population, quality of life and continuously improving well into the next 60 years! Today, standing taller, our modern homes/towns have won numerous international awards and commendations!
Space is always finite in Singapore; the success is in the creative design, detailed plan and value add which we have seen and succeeded in changing nothing into a higher value of significance, that's uniquely Singapore! So far our experiences and lessons learned from Covid, amenities & facilities will have to be RELOOK, RESHAPE and REALLOCATE in accordance to needs versus wants.
A new sets of lifestyles that ranging from the millenials (NG), adults (AG), older adults (MG) to our seniors (PG), a readjustment of complex and diverse range of needs versus wants!
Living, working and breathing spaces in this resetting mode of Covid experiences are big turning points in our way of life and how we view a home space or a workplace - SPACE!
By downsizing the workplace by 20% and upsize the living/breathing space by 20%, as research found new emerging trends in our demographics and psycholographics. The essence of how we live, what we beliefs, how we work and importantly our ageing seniors!
For home is a human senses of one's closeness, comfort zone and connecting to many lives! So important is the home, it is the basics of human needs that must not be taken easily nor ignoring it.
Affordability and accessibility are two closely related variables when a prospective home buyer starts searching for its nest. The best choice will be an ideal environment that connects to 80% or more of the family needs and wants. Simply, an affordable price that will sustain the family needs and wants with the minimal disruptions, tangibles and intangibles.
Aspirations and expectations are immeasurable human to human of all ages. Affluent and being better educated in a developed country is a norm towards a more complex society. These human behaviors need to be thoroughly understood in order to formulate a holistic solution to fit harmoniously - the evolving homes of tomorrows!
There is a need to master a spectrum of talents for housing and town planning from architects, designers, policy makers, scientists to social scientists in deriving a formula that will best fit the future trends (demographics + psychographics) of the population.
Perhaps now, a plain new sheet approach in crafting our future homes ; from a Studio, a SOHO to a Multi-Gen penthouse/townhouse. A new chapter of progression from more than half century of our nation building and most of all, the continuation of our Singapore Story!
Afterall, a home is the heart of a family (家) and enlarge a country (国家), perhaps, going forward in renaming flats to HDB Homes or HDB Apartments - UNIQUELY & PRESERVING OUR HOMES!
Afterwords:
Facts and Trends:
Rising sea level, warmer temperature, food security, rising middle-class, inequalities, structural unemployment, aging, low birth rate and wasted management. Using science and high tech such as ecological scientists, electronics & structural engineers, designers and architects that will formulate a SMART, GREEN and a sustainable DESIGN that's fit for all to live and CO-EXIST.
A good "house-keeping" initiative namely the EIP is a check and balance approach in achieving a harmonious living environment for all occupants in a public housing setting, this case HDB developments.
The preservation of this core EIP idea can be modified and incrementally changed over time. Importantly these amendments must be prudent and relevant!
Additionals:
Seller Surplus - -
A seller capital gains from selling an asset previously bought at a lowered price point.
Buyer Surplus - -
A cost saving when acquiring an asset from a willing seller at a price point lower than the original price the seller has bought it.
Ethnic Integration Policy - -
"... WP aims to remove the EIP one day, but not before Singapore reaches a state of being race neutral...?"
-- Pritam Singh
https://youtu.be/2cmbW4UCBJY
Quotations:
CO-EXIST: Preserving the CORE, Incremental growth, value-add and remains RELEVANT!"
'Social mobility is chance, access and accessibility... "
- - END - -
[6:53 pm, 17/12/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:55 pm, 17/12/2021] +REACH: Need something to express your joy this holiday season? 🥳
The REACH Comics Festive Stickers Pack is here!✨
Let Rachel, Andy, Ivan and Susan help you express your holiday well-wishes to friends and family! 👍
For Whatsapp (please install the Stickerly app to download): https://sticker.ly/s/IVZUG8
[6:59 pm, 17/12/2021] +Smiley face: 17 December, 2021
To: Distinguished Min- MND, MOF, MAS, Ministers And All Honorable Members
"Buy High and Sell Higher (Assets Enhancement) ... A Human Psychology of Greed Or Ignorance? "
The latest initiatives of HDB plans to build flats within the prime location and city fringes of Singapore are perhaps a thread and a needle in sewing the gap better those who have achieved, arrived, the many that are becoming successful and rising up the social ladder and importantly not to forget many whom are struggling along he way- one may agree it is a happy problem if it turns out well!
Real World Values - -
Fact, the economics developments and subsequent successes of a country will have an upward trajectory of demand (supply) of essential goods and services and a direct impact on its domestic cost and quality of living.
For the policymakers, it gets tougher, walking a tightrope of balancing the future, the existing and the existential couple with the dynamics of its socioeconomic swings. The established values of properties, the possible revaluation of coming public housing and future values are tough balancing acts to achieve an amicable and inclusive outcomes for all of Singapore, at least 80% of the majority to begin with...?
A time now to reset and rescale the hot property markets from public to private entities through the implementation of the additional buyer's transactional tax. There is also a need to relook and rewrite existing public housing rules on top of these freshly imposed taxes to derive an impactful and workable price cooling policy.
Main:
(A) Proposed To Resale Flat Rules - -
1) For natural citizens, no restriction to purchase a flats 5 years or older onwards, 10 years or older for Prime locations. Matrimonial certificate to be presented for citizenship status. Single or Joint ownership, either one of the applicant who is not citizen will not be eligible under this ruling.
2) For PRs, in matured area flats, eligible to purchase resale flats of 10 years or older. For Prime locations and city fringes flats, a 15 years eligibility to purchase such resale flats.
3) For existing owners who are renting out flats for income and same time residing in a private residence (private condo/apartment or landed property) shall be levied 25% of the annual rental of these flats. Fabricate, circumvent or cheat will amount to infringement of the proof of rental or residence of these flat owners whom will be subjected to prosecution, fines and confiscation of the flat and HDB there on will hold full ownership of such repossessed flats.
(B) Proposed Price Differentiation in Newly Built Prime Area Flats - -
The selling prices of these Prime location flats will differentiate from new flats of all areas including city fringes and matured estates. Prime locations being the highest value follows by city fringes and matured estates. For Prime locations, flats price range from an increase of 50% to 100% compared to matured flats, subject to flat Size, Floor and Location of each block and its vicinity.
Afterwords:
Policy - -
Is a concensus derived from stakeholders that born a set of rules to be implemented within a parameter of involvement.
Politics - -
Its involving the human aspect of interactions and communications from the start of a vision or a challenge or an opportunity. In the process of implementing a policy, these intangibled and tangibles combined attributes will contribute towards an intended outcome or many unintended consequences. Should the later happened, it will be regarded as a failed policy. It will be back to the drawing board to rethink and rechart a new approach and a new policy arises.
Not playing smart or not seizing chances may result in missed opportunities.
Singapore has always been the admirable Darling to many wo…
[7:00 pm, 17/12/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
======
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