REACH 301 - How do you feel about current COVID-19 situation in Singapore? Parents with children from 5 to 11 years old, will you be getting your children to take the COVID-19 vaccine once it is available? Why or Why not? (SK)
13 Dec 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 13/12/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[10:00 am, 13/12/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
Children from five to 11 years old will be able to receive the Pfizer-BioNTech/Comirnaty Covid-19 vaccine from the end of Dec 2021. Vaccination for this group will begin once new batches of the vaccine are received, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in a statement on Friday (Dec 10) night.
💬 How do you feel about the current COVID-19 situation in Singapore? Parents with children from 5 to 11 years old, will you be getting your children to take the COVID-19 vaccine once it is available? Why or Why not?
Children will be given smaller doses - one-third of that used for those 12 and above - and the jabs will be spaced at least 21 days apart. MOH will work with the Ministry of Education and Early Childhood Development Agency to roll out vaccinations for the school-going age group.
Pfizer-BioNTech/Comirnaty Covid-19 vaccine is the first Covid-19 vaccine approved by Singapore for use for children in this age group, following a recommendation by the expert committee on Covid-19 vaccination, which the multi-ministry task force handling the pandemic accepted. The committee said the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks posed to the children, especially given the ongoing community transmission and emergence of the Omicron variant. Those aged between 18 and 29 years who have completed their primary vaccination jabs at least five months ago will also be able to receive their booster shots from Dec 14.
Senior Minister of State for Health Dr Janil Puthucheary said in a Facebook post that the Health Sciences Authority (HSA) had conducted a thorough evaluation of data in consultation with two groups of experts from HSA’s Medicines Advisory Committee and Panel of Infectious Diseases Experts. He said: “In an ongoing study of over 2,000 children aged 5 to 11 years, vaccine efficacy was estimated to be 90.7%. In addition, side effects such as injection site pain, fatigue, headache, chills and fever were generally reported less frequently and were milder in severity in the children compared to adolescents.There were also no cases of anaphylaxis or myocarditis/pericarditis in the study.”
There is an emerging view amongst scientists around the world that existing COVID-19 vaccines will still work on the Omicron variant, especially in protecting people against severe illness. While studies on vaccine effectiveness for infection and severe disease compared to previous variants are ongoing, there is strong scientific consensus that we should take our vaccinations and boosters to protect ourselves against any existing and future variants of COVID-19.
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[10:01 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Great news. Yes, will be getting my kid Vax'd asap. Reason? Because vaccination helps prevent serious illness, reduces the spread of disease and mutations. Simple.
[10:01 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Also, means we will be confident to go travelling again!
[10:04 am, 13/12/2021] +Mag: For me, I am very concerned. My answer is no, not for the time being. I don’t think I am ready for my kid to take this jab. I will be on a wait and see approach.
[10:13 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: Question: is going to be very evident -> what the govt going to do to if majority kids from 5 to 12 do not want to inject ...
[10:13 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: force them to be schooless? is that what is it
[10:13 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: also what if by june the covid really die down .....
[10:14 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: what is the KK trial like? how many had been jab, how many cases had volunteer their kids , where are the stats and validated by 3rd party
[10:15 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: not being an anti vaccinate but which direction are we following WHO or US FDA / Isreal. cos WHO did mentioned kids vaccinae can be delay and let the adults have the vaccination first espically for other countries
[10:16 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: and what happen to the statement -> kids have greater immunity and check on the internet comparing kids and adults locally ... seems adults have a far worse effects compare to kids who recover within days while being bubbly when down with covid ....
[10:16 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: also what is the age age sudden widen to 12-5 why it cannot be 10-12 .....
[10:17 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: just because usa and isreal set that age range?
[10:21 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: also with the advertising from the pharma how confident are we that even the 3rd booster works
[10:22 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: moderna say no have to have a 4th and somewhat newjab to counter omicron
[10:22 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: but pifzer say is ok current 3rd jab works
[10:22 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: but hey have any one read most in the usa and another country, their omircon victims are those with 3 full jabs
[10:22 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: so what is what now ...
[10:23 am, 13/12/2021] +Gcml: Has there been a huge percentage of young kids with covid AND suffering from symptoms etc to render this vaccination necessary?
What are the pros and cons such that it is favouring vaccination for young kids? (if so)
[10:26 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: though omicron have not mke its first kill but the wide spread might pull our health care system down .... with more people visiting the facilities
[10:26 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: jab is not going to prevent a lower amount fi USA reports most of their patients are 3 jabs type.. the only thing these 3 jabs do is prevent icu and beds in hospital from being overwhelm
[10:27 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: if this is the only proactive action used as a front to fight on we will be again in the reactive stage
[10:51 am, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/TPhWS3f7-1E
[10:53 am, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/cwqOWrIpc6k
[10:54 am, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: Omicron: Pfizer CEO says we may need fourth Covid vaccine doses sooner than expected
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-may-need-fourth-covid-vaccine-doses-sooner-than-expected.html?__source=androidappshare
[10:56 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: see it change again
[10:56 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: just a few days ago not 3 pifzer says 3rd does does stop o-varaint now someone share it need 4th does
[10:57 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: what is what now
[10:57 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: everyday we get advertisement from these pharma
[10:57 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: thus globally society are pissed and resisting thus making govt forcing their society to be mandatory vaccination
[11:00 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: The chance of a kid getting smallpox these days is very small. Do people say no to Vaccine because of that? They do not. The reason Smallpox is no longer a threat is because we vaccinate our kids.
[11:01 am, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/YBzRV8w5f4U
[11:02 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: I do agree that Covid risk is very small in kids, but the vaccine reduces that risk further and helps prevent spread and mutations.
[11:03 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Several friends who are not anti-vax are hesistant about vaccinating their kids, and I do understand that feeling. I'm just putting it to one side based on evidence that the vaccine is not harmful and it's better than risking covid.
[11:03 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Yes, this is a danger we are being manipulated by the pharmas', but we don't have a counter argument so we have to go with it.
[11:04 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Yes, and we may need 2 doses a year while they refine the vaccination. Remember this was rolled out (thankfully) in record time. I'm ok with that and I'm sure in 5 years from now there will be a single dose that does the job, or an annual dose like flu.
[11:13 am, 13/12/2021] +Joseph: 👍
[11:19 am, 13/12/2021] +Joseph: Isn’t it ironic that a lot of parents wish for their kids to become DOCTORS when they grow up, but some of them are also the same people who are doubting the medical experts/scientists when it comes to the pandemic and safety/need for vaccinations.
[11:32 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/europe-jab-young-children-cut-142709007.html
WHO Europe: jab young children to cut Covid risk at Christmas.
[11:33 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
WHO say - get children to vaccinate to cut covid risk in children.
[11:33 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: I think it's a good thing that the vaccines are approved for younger children but I would not be vaccinating my kids for the time being because there is insufficient data to suggest that a healthy child 5-11 will benefit from this intervention given that COVID, in overwhelming majority of young children, presents as a very mild illness.
However, I agree that vaccines will be a good thing for those children who are at higher risk of severe illness (e.g. underlying respiratory and cardiac issues, immunocompromised children) or those who may have higher exposure risk to the virus (e.g. children of healthcare professionals or frontliners.) but unlike for adults, I do not see it appropriate to mandate vaccination or to impose vaccine differentiated measures for children.
[11:34 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/worrying-number-children-pregnant-women-153102050.html
Worrying' number of children and pregnant women in hospital as omicron surges in South Africa.
[11:40 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: The one major unknown that is omitted from the original article posted by Minister Janil and is not addressed by the clinical study that was referenced is that there is not data on the long term impact of mRNA vaccination on young children. This is something that we cannot know until many years later and it is a fallacy to think that it is definitely safe.
If MOH wants to convince me to vaccinate my young children, I will need more robust data to show that the risk of severe disease from COVID among children 5-11 years old is high enough to justify the unquantifiable risk of long term side effects.
[11:41 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: I will need more robust data than news articles with anecdotes.
[11:43 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: There needs to be a credible modelling of the actual rates of infection among the young - specifically 5 to 11 - and actual numbers on how many children actual suffers from severe disease and whether there are specific profiles that are more vulnerable.
[11:44 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: If MOH can generate that and communicate that clearly, I believe many parents like me will be open to vaccinate our kids.
[11:44 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: finally and not just depend on other countries results
[11:45 am, 13/12/2021] +Gcml: Yes. Even as a nation, do we want an entire generation to live with long term effects that are unknown, years down the road.
[11:45 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Look like to get the children vaccinated, Omicron will come in to infect many children in Singapore.
Then MOH can generate more data to convince the parents to get their children vaccinated.
[11:45 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: I think results from other countries could be a helpful reference as it'll be impossible to simulate a similar situation in Singapore. I'm open to that as long as it's robust.
[11:46 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: It is OK for children to be infected with whatever variant of COVID, as long as the disease is overwhelmingly mild.
[11:46 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: It's not scarier just because it's a new variant.
[11:47 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: this is such a evil statement to make
[11:48 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: is like a freaking curse to all children in singapore
[11:48 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: and i take that personally
[11:48 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. A good minority of unvaccinated adults refused to vaccinate, only when Delta wave come in thousands get infected, double digits people die - then vaccination rate ramp up.
Look like we are going to see another wave of Omicron coming to Singapore to infect many children before parents are convinced to get their children vaccinated.
[11:48 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: At a very high level -> if Omnicron is as transmissible as people say it is, and if it is also as severe for children as some might think, it is highly unlikely that we still have not seen a major spike in severe illness/deaths by now.
[11:48 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: we all knwo HOW FREAKING DARN HARD ON FOR U TO PUSH UR VACCINATION DRIVE
[11:49 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: but there is no need to say things liek that to children for heaven sake they are just little ones with no mind set to make decision
[11:49 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: if YES i bet they will also screw and show their finger to ppl to you for forcing them to vaccinate
[11:50 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: OR... there might be severe long term side effects for some children who are vaccinated. Will you still be alive to pay for their medication bills then?
[11:50 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: the long term side effects are unknown
[11:50 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Same old arguments repeat itself on vaccination - first for the adults.
And now for the children.
[11:51 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: it could be very minimal.
[11:51 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: or it could be very high
[11:51 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: the risk calculation is different
[11:51 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: and if you can't wrap your brain around it... it's because you've been outsourcing your brain to news articles or other people.
[11:52 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: work it out yourself. you don't have to take it from me.
[11:52 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: " I do not see it appropriate to mandate vaccination or to impose vaccine differentiated measures for children." - Agreed, no different measures needed for under 12s please.
[11:52 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: I think vaccination for SOME children with higher risk is warranted
[11:53 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: importantly do we want to risk a generation on kids who are medically defect by this vaccine
[11:53 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Equally, we don't know the long term risk from Covid, in Adults or Children. The mRNA Vaccine doesn't give you covid. It just teaches you how to recognise and attack covid.
[11:53 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: if in deed there are defects going down the road
[11:53 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: but to think that parents are "anti-vax" just because they don't see any reason why their otherwise healthy kids should be vaccinated is a wrong way to go about it.
[11:54 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: dun forget this vaccine is still in experimental stage is not full flagged vaccine
[11:54 am, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Very simple, get those parents and children who want to vaccinate, vaccinate first.
Let those parents who are more fearful - let their children wait.
The cycle of persuading vaccination will have to repeat itself.
[11:54 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: Agreed- covid could well have serious long term affects on humans.
[11:54 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: everything is a risk benefit trade off. In fact, it can be argued that SG children might be better protected if our govt donate some of our vaccines stash for kids to our neighbors so that they can vaccinated their adult population.
[11:55 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: already to msia and indonesia i think
[11:55 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: We don't know the long term affects of Covid and it's a disease we don't fully understand so much less predictable than a vaccine we created.
[11:55 am, 13/12/2021] +Ah Heng: that is why i am proud of singapore sharing vaccine with other countries liek WHO mentioned
[11:56 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: true also.. I wouldn't say that vaccine is more predictable tho.
[11:57 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: It has now been fully approved. No longer experimental. and if it was experimental, 4 billion doses is quite a lot of evidence.
[11:57 am, 13/12/2021] +BL: it doesn't mutate for starters! That's good evidence it is more predictable.
[11:59 am, 13/12/2021] +JC: but side effect is the combination of the vaccine + your body... while the vaccine might remain the same, the human physiology is always changing, over time and across individuals.
[0:00 pm, 13/12/2021] +JC: I vax my kids for everything else
[0:00 pm, 13/12/2021] +JC: even influenza
[0:05 pm, 13/12/2021] +BL: So how are other vaccines ok, if human physiology is changing so much so quickly? I'm not following the logic.
[0:06 pm, 13/12/2021] +BL: Anyway - I'm not getting into a good/bad vaccine debate. It's been done to death as well.
[0:07 pm, 13/12/2021] +BL: I don't think Parents should be forced at this stage, and I don't think kids should be segregated dependent on vax status.
[0:07 pm, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
[0:11 pm, 13/12/2021] +JC: 👍 your position is certainly justifiable. Understand and respect it.
[0:15 pm, 13/12/2021] +BL: 👍
[0:21 pm, 13/12/2021] +JC: my hesitancy is with the new mRNA tech. Not saying that it's a bad/inferior tech, but other vax have been used over time, across many people and the technology is better understood.
COVID as a disease is better understood as it is much easier to study intensively a disease among the infected than to study long term effects of novel vaccines.
Perhaps I am overly cautious but I'm comfortable doing that because most kids are fine even if they get COVID.
[1:06 pm, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. Channel 8 news say Omicron has landed in 63 countries.
2. Notice that the vaccination strategy in getting children between 12 - 18 years is very successful in Singapore.
3. Singapore can replicate similar vaccination strategy for children 5 - 11 years old - who are mainly pre-schoolers and primary school students.
4. Can start with parents who are willing to get their children vaccinated.
5. Then the rest.
[1:10 pm, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/most-reported-us-omicron-cases-have-hit-fully-vaccinated-cdc-2021-12-10/
[1:15 pm, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Covid-19 booster shot provides strong defence against Omicron: British study. https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/booster-covid-19-shot-provides-strong-defence-against-omicron-british-study
[1:44 pm, 13/12/2021] +BL: Yes, because most people are vaccinated.... vaccines don't stop you getting the virus, vaccines enable your body to fight the virus quickly and effectively.
[6:16 pm, 13/12/2021] +Anthony: Hi Reach,
My topic is today Frontline worker have higher chance to be infection from Virus .
After all this year ,Did Government realised of that
Everytime , I feel disappointed & not surprise ....however mostly this group job worker are low income worker & some of them who being infection are breadwinner .
May I know what wil Government can help this group of worker.
Cos, They may at a risk of losing their job
At the same time this job of group salary worker are low income but their Job are most highly infectious one
I urge the government given out more Subsidy more SRV Voucher for all fronline Low Income Worker ,Not just in Nursing but all sector
As long ,Anyone who not working from home( WFH ) base
Everyone of Vulnerable Frontline Low Income Group Worker deserve our Government Cares & More benefits & Subsidy.
[6:47 pm, 13/12/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan
[6:49 pm, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cdc-voucher-130-million-claim-online-digital-hawker-merchants-heartland-2376086
S$100 in CDC vouchers for each Singaporean household, assistance available for digital roll-out
[6:50 pm, 13/12/2021] +Rama: Claimed
[6:50 pm, 13/12/2021] ☸️ Danny 心:
Good!
[6:52 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: Hope they pay the hawkers the full amount for those vouchers
[6:53 pm, 13/12/2021] +Rama: Hidden conditions in the vouchers!?
[6:53 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: No, I meant when you pay with the vouchers, the hawkers get the full amount
[6:54 pm, 13/12/2021] +Rama: I hope so!
[6:54 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: Sometimes it's the hawkers or merchants that absorbing part of the cost
[6:54 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: For example, gahmen buys the vouchers at $70 each as part of a bulk purchase and the hawkers still need to give u 100$ value
[6:54 pm, 13/12/2021] +Rama: Let the consumer share it!?
[6:55 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: Means they absorb $30 for example
[6:55 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: Hawker share
[6:55 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: Not consumer
[6:55 pm, 13/12/2021] +Fulgrim: As long as gahmen is paying the full some then it's ok
[6:56 pm, 13/12/2021] +Rama: I expect to hear some feedback on implementation and usage.
[6:59 pm, 13/12/2021] +Smiley face: 13 December, 2021
To: Distinguished MTF and All Honorable Members
"Actions Speak Louder Than Words - Let VDS (intra) & VTL (inter) be the deciders... "
- - anonymous
Why:
Typically, why it takes up to 55 years for scientific data and final conclusion to arrive a consensus for a particular disease / drug / vaccine among scientists of this world?
It is the norm for scientists, researchers and fundings & findings of up to 50 years or lesser to derive a confidence level of solid truth including the rights and the wrongs regardless of Diseases, Drugs or Vaccines, the case these EUA covid vaccines, therapeutic drugs and covid itself.
Meantime, the world ticks and continues to fight the immediate virus calls O! Beside vaccines any other remedies available to mitigate this O or more varieties to come? Time will tell...
What:
A standby protocol for 2022 for the first half of the year. HBL for kinder schools & primary schools into two segregations of P1, P3, P5 and P2, P4, P6 with alternate week of physical Schooling. Affected parents to seek consideration from employers for WFH during these weekly HBL.
When:
Proposed refreshed SMM for 2022 weekdays, weekends and public holidays activities. When R is 0.3 or less or when R is 0.3 to 0.5. The best scenario will be 0.2 and less considered as normalcy could be intra month or quarterly withstanding variants and cases.
1) Boosted Vaccinees - -
Boosted vavcinees to dine-in up to table of 12 persons free from all restrictions, weekdays, weekends and public holidays.
Mass gatherings of social activities like sports, performing arts, religious services and celebrations both private and public for Boosted vaccinees of up to 20,000 persons capacity (when R is 0.3 or less, for R 0.3 to 0.5 the capacity will be 5,000 persons). No need for ART testing.
Free and Easy VTL, entering into home country. No test needed for citizens, PRs, FTs, WPs and business travellers with proof of purpose.
The above privileges are time based effective of 270 days from the booster effective date.
2) Full Vaccinees - -
Fully vaccinated can dine in up to table of 5 persons from differrent households and age groups. All time and all day.
Mass gatherings, 24 hours prior ART tests are needed for entry into sports, performing arts, religious services
and celebrations both private and public.
For VTL, immediate entering home country subject to PCR or ART tests and day 4.
The above privileges are time based effective of 180 days from the last vaccinated effective date.
Where:
A country REPUTATION of being clean and covid safe will be the keys in the success of its implementation of cross border travel initiatives that will consequentially be a muscular driver of economic activities, trade progressions & integrations and differentiates from other nations. Being unique, be different and avoiding a habit of "monkey see, monkey do" approach: importantly to seek every small advantage, that's simply an "unfair advantage" over others!
A brave new world, afterall, 99% of all visitors and locals are potentially asymptomatics? Let's open our minds, lightened our hearts and embrace a reset - a new norm of FUN, FREE & EASY experience for ourselves and our visitors! As the old saying goes " the rest is history...! "
News & Videos:
https://youtu.be/YBzRV8w5f4U
https://youtu.be/TPhWS3f7-1E
https://youtu.be/cwqOWrIpc6k
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/08/omicron-pfizer-ceo-says-we-may-need-fourth-covid-vaccine-doses-sooner-than-expected.html?__source=androidappshare
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/wait-what-fda-wants-55-years-process-foia-request-over-vaccine-data-2021-11-18/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/most-reported-us-omicron-cases-have-hit-fully-vaccinated-cdc-2021-12-10/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/business/hong-kong-covid-quarantine-pilots-intl-hnk/index.html
Quotations:
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
- - Confucious
- - END - -
[7:00 pm, 13/12/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
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