Wednesday, June 18, 2025

REACH (Telegram) 80 -   What are your views on the plans laid out for Singapore’s public transport system?

(SK)

18 Jun 2025 (10am - 7pm)


REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 9:50 am]

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REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 10:04 am]

📢Topic📢

Singapore is poised to make a big push for self-driving vehicles to be deployed across the island in the next five years, to strengthen the public transport network, amidst other plans.

It is a key plank in Acting Transport Minister Jeffrey Siow’s plan to make public transport more attractive by reducing journey times to work, especially for those living in Housing Board estates farther from the city centre. 

Mr Siow’s priority is also to reduce public transport journey times to work, especially for estates farther from the city centre by making HDB estates more walkable and increasing the density of bus networks.

💬 What are your views on the plans laid out for Singapore’s public transport system?

In a wide-ranging interview with reporters on June 11 – less than three weeks into his new role – Mr Siow laid out a vision of deploying smaller-capacity driverless vehicles “fairly extensively” on fixed routes within HDB estates. This comes more than a decade after Singapore first started testing self-driving technology.

These routes can be changed as needed, with self-driving minibuses and shuttles taking people to transport nodes during peak hours, and then places such as polyclinics or community centres during off-peak times.

📌 Reducing journey times

Mr Siow’s priority is to reduce public transport journey times to work, especially for estates farther from the city centre, such as Tengah, Punggol, Jurong West and Pasir Ris.

However, introducing new bus services is not straightforward, he noted. Bus drivers need to be recruited and trained, which can take six months to a year, Mr Siow said. There is also a need to buy buses and build depots and interchanges.

The deployment of driverless vehicles will help reduce the time it takes for people to get from their homes to the MRT station or bus interchange – the so-called first and last mile – which Mr Siow said is not so efficient today. This is a key reason why public transit travel times can be two to three times longer than a private car ride in some cases. Mr Siow aims to halve that gap.

Calling self-driving technology a “game changer”, Mr Siow said that if autonomous vehicles become a reality here, the dynamics of driving could shift considerably.

Mr Siow said this will have “interesting implications” for how Singapore approaches private vehicle ownership, and, by extension, the certificate of entitlement system.

The authorities in Singapore began studying self-driving vehicles as early as 2014. A number of trials were done, but none made significant inroads.

But as the technology matures in places like China, a second wind has emerged. The Land Transport Authority (LTA) recently closed a call for proposals to trial autonomous buses on selected public bus routes from mid-2026.

In the short term, there will need to be a safety driver on board autonomous vehicles. “In the longer term, it really depends on how the industry evolves,” Mr Siow noted.

📌 Room to improve sentiment on public transport

Among Mr Jeffrey Siow's many goals for his newly started tenure as acting Transport Minister, one stands out: To make Singaporeans proud of their public transport system.

He added that to him, there are three key parts to his new job: To persuade when there's disagreement, to make sure there is sizeable support for what he wants to do, and to inspire and get people to trust that he's doing the right thing.

“I know I won't be able to please everyone, it's not possible ... But I will try to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. That's my objective.” 

📌 Fines are not the only solution for public transport operators

Commenting generally on using fines to penalise public transport operators for lapses in service, Mr Siow said the system was used as a means of reducing the financial resources of the public transport company.

This in turn affects the company’s bottom line and consequently, “what it can pay to its people and what it can do for itself”. 

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 10:04 am]

But beyond financial penalties, it is about "working with them together as part of the whole system, making sure that their interests and their motivations are aligned overall with the longer-term goal; with a larger goal of making public transport a good transport system in Singapore”, said Mr Siow.

He noted that rail reliability has improved over the years, from 67,000 mean km between failure (MKBF) in 2012, to 2 million MKBF today. MKBF is the widely accepted engineering measure for rail reliability.

"It doesn't mean that it is perfect ... I think disruptions will happen every now and then, invariably, and that's where it's important for the train network to be resilient," he said. 

And one important feature of a resilient network is for commuters to have alternative routes should a train service on a particular track be disrupted. 

This is where the Circle Line and the future Cross Island Line is "absolutely critical", he said. These lines cut through many others, ensuring that if one line is down, commuters can switch to another to get to their destinations.

🔗 [CNA] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/jeffrey-siow-smrt-disruption-fine-grab-private-hire-incentive-5175371?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_18062025_cna

🔗 [ST] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/singapore-aims-to-ramp-up-autonomous-vehicle-use-to-boost-public-transport-network?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg

🔗 [CNA] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/jeffrey-siow-public-transport-pride-acting-minister-5175736?cid=telegram_cna_social_28112017_cna

----


365, [18/6/2025 10:22 am]

I find it hard to believe that driverless can coexist with drivers. Sooner or later drivers will find out how to exploit driverless behavior to their own convenience on the road.

Instead of targeting just public transportation, focus on the overall transportation network. 

Are we to believe that Singapore wants a car-lite future (something discussed in the past) when the infrastructure focuses so much on roads for private transportation? Whenever I take the bus, it's actually a fairly comfortable and reasonably fast ride, until there's an accident, which from my anecdotal experience, is most disproportionately caused by private transportation (speeding, tailgating, using phones, etc...).

Autonomous driving or not, I think the priority is space-efficient transportation methods, especially given our limited spaces, which means more focus on public transportation and easier last-mile journey, including more convenient walking and cycling paths. I think we can evolve to the stage whereby private transportation is limited to those who really need it, such as medical emergencies or logistical purposes. Can even come up with a new system to have private transport on standby in various places meant for emergencies only, roads will be clearer and smoother for them to arrive at medical facilities as well. 

I personally envy the Dutch cycling network, having dedicated cycling paths and tunnels that don't overlap with roads for cars, making it a smoother, safer and more convenient journey for cyclist.

All these is of course in direct conflict against those who have more interest in owning private transportation, which also is what standing minister has mentioned, "you can't please everyone".

Hanny, [18/6/2025 10:29 am]

Driverless technology will eventually come. And it's good for Singapore. There is more options on how buses/transports vehicles can be deployed. No more manpower constraints.

Daniel, [18/6/2025 10:32 am]

I agree that this seems to be a good way forward. Using driverless busses for last mile could decrease the appeal of owning a car, thus also freeing up space for other uses within the estates. 

One big unknown for me is how this will cope with the peaks for instance the morning school rush, which in my experience regularly gridlocks whole estates near schools.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:36 am]

But how to assist those wheelchair bounded people to enter the bus if there's no driver

365, [18/6/2025 10:40 am]

With reduction in private car ownership, it'll be easier to plan the remaining public transportation routes to not clash with each other. The real challenge is convincing people to give up cars for the greater good.

365, [18/6/2025 10:40 am]

Politically I think will be a hard ask, so I don't really hold much hope for it. Can imagine the huge backlash for them.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:41 am]

Another thing is the speed of driverless bus. Are they actually fast enough

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:42 am]

Can they reach 60km/h in Singapore roads

365, [18/6/2025 10:43 am]

Everyone has different definition of "fast enough", is it 60, 70, or even more? To someone speeding 110 casually, 100 is not fast enough.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:43 am]

Cause my impression those bus are slow typically driving at turtle speed at 20-40km/h

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:45 am]

I think typically our bus drives about 40-50km/h

365, [18/6/2025 10:45 am]

Sometimes depend on roads, sometimes depend on their schedule also. When the bus behind is too fast because of smoother traffic or less passengers, they will purposely slow down, sometimes even coming to a full stop for minutes. I want to blame poor planning, but honestly they have to account for other drivers on the road and accidents as well. So sometimes there's too much buffer and they have to slow down, sometimes the same buffer isn't enough and they are late.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:45 am]

Sometimes 60-70 on express ways

365, [18/6/2025 10:46 am]

That's why I believe it is which type of transportation the government wants to focus on. If they really want to focus on public transportation, they have to give more road privileges to buses, we may not reach Japan level of having a dedicated timed schedule, but at least try to aim towards it.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:47 am]

I think in Singapore bus is not the solution

365, [18/6/2025 10:47 am]

My experience with Japan buses, they have a timed schedule at the stop, telling you what time the bus will arrive at your stop, and what time that same bus can arrive at the stops after.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:47 am]

Trains are the solution

365, [18/6/2025 10:47 am]

I think it's a mix

365, [18/6/2025 10:47 am]

But train is isolated from road networks, so bus is lagging behind

Daniel, [18/6/2025 10:48 am]

Yes, that is a good point. In other cities I have lived, the traffic lights will switch for busses. I think that might not work here, considering how many bus lines there are on the same stretch of road.

Daniel, [18/6/2025 10:48 am]

I think train will never be able to do last and first mile effectively.

365, [18/6/2025 10:49 am]

Train is limited because you need to build new infrastructure, and some places cannot reach due to the environment there. Buses can tap on existing network and penetrate deeper for last mile journeys.

365, [18/6/2025 10:49 am]

Think of train stations as a hub for inter-town transport and buses more for local towns.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:50 am]

I think if you are talking bus that looks like train operating on roads maybe

Daniel, [18/6/2025 10:50 am]

Although a lot of bus lines are crazy long in Singapore, with too many stops. Might make more sense to shorten/split up some of the very long ones, that would also make the frequencies more predictable

365, [18/6/2025 10:51 am]

Actually there's a lot of viable options, be it buses or trains. But it all depends on how much priority has been given to private transportation.

365, [18/6/2025 10:52 am]

Even trains for example, need to dig deeper or build higher to avoid roads. They are the ones giving way to cars in this sense.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:53 am]

Maybe those light rail type of bus will be effective in Singapore

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 10:56 am]

It's just like feeder service, and those private vans that transport passengers from hospitals n condos to bus stops. Infact by putting out more smaller busses crowding the roads more

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:56 am]

Double decker benzy bus

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 10:57 am]

It's the same like our old system only driverless

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 10:58 am]

Now driver jobs be gone

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:58 am]

And bus might not limit to bus stops but drop off point in hospital and polyclinics

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 10:58 am]

This is my suggestion to minister,hope reach consider it

Daniel, [18/6/2025 10:58 am]

Seems like there's not enough drivers. School busses also very hard to find drivers.

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 11:00 am]

[ Poll : I am confident the plans set out will help improve Singapore's public transport system. Please elaborate your views in the chat. ]

- Strongly Agree

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

- Strongly Disagree

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:04 am]

But beyond financial penalties there's nothing given back to the commuters being affected 

When a plane is being delayed, complimentary vouchers are given. 

But when a train break down despite rising of fares nothing is given back to the commuters, despite the fines.

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:05 am]

We have those already mini buses go from main mall bus stops to changing hospital, sgh, ok, cgh.. Nothing new

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:06 am]

Clicked wrong strongly disagree

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:06 am]

But I don't want to have mini bus just one stop from hospital to a mall. I want a big bus that pass by the drop off point

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:07 am]

Those r our normal sbs busses.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:08 am]

Yes they only stop at bus stop but not drop off point

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:08 am]

Adding a stop in drop off point will be good as the bus stop usually a distance away

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:10 am]

I recently took a bus to Ng teng fong hospital, I think it's hard to navigate as I need to take a overhead bridge to cross the road.

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:15 am]

1. The idea and concept sounds and looks good. what are the impact on employment?

2. bus drivers and taxi, phv drivers will be affect.

3. encourage these drivers to up grade so to get better employment and pay? 

are there enough employment for these drivers to upgrade to?

4. think of employment as pyramid. the apex of it are CEOs earning multi millions...then moving down lower to its broad base that had lowe income jobs.

are there enough jobs and progressively abilities for these broad based of Singaporean to upgrade to? (assuming all of these group is positively motivated to do so.....which  is not realistic, if they are able to...they will not be stucked at the lower structure of the employment pyramid)

what about their abilities to upgrade?

5. by using ai and driverless technology may sounds good on the appearance....the jobs and employment areana of Singapore is not ready or not able to support it.

the government may face alot of drivers with their job losses..or income reduced because of it. the only one benefit is the companies using driverless technology and a portion of small drivers or Singapore who are able to upgrade to meet the employment need.

those left behind, will have problems and Singapore's is a small markert. where do you expect these drivers or Singaporean to upgrade to, for better employment and more importantly, better income? 

6. is the current government only think of one sided issue of automatic ai transportation and left out what type of impact it has on other area? like employment opportunities? is the employment available greater than the job loss that such technology will bring.

7. if everything is ai automatic, from finance to manufacturing to transportation to waste management..

are there jobs available for Singaporean to upgrade to for better income, are there jobs available for those who are not able to, ai automatic technology may have reduce the jobs available for these groups of Singaporean?

8. i saw online...alot of china people are affected because of driverless technology, coupled it with reduced employment opportunities and economic fluctuations, and toxic employment culture..... China population are toughing it out and having hard times in suviving.

ai technology is good...but not all population will be able to benefit from it.

and Singapore is a small place...how many better jobs are there for Singaporean...take away the means of income of drivers...you will have an angry portion of population... then freak general election will be more likely to happen and it will be Singapore worsr than before when it really happen..

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:21 am]

ai technology aspirations has to be balance with reality.

ai technology will bring in benefits it will also reduce income and jobs availability for population who are stucked at the middle to lower base of jobs and employment pyramid.

is Singapore really ready for it.?

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:30 am]

what about cyber security. will the system by sabotage and hijack by cyber terrorists, jihadists, to cause havoc or mass death. 

imagine many of such driverless transportation hacked and directed for collision or to create damage.

is the Singapore cyber security able to stop or prevent such terrorism to happen?

G, [18/6/2025 11:35 am]

"Bus drivers be recruited and trained, which can take six months to a year"

Why so long? Why want to implement expensive new technology to solve something that looks like a process bottleneck?

G, [18/6/2025 11:36 am]

Driverless means no human back up within the vehicle? Got accident how? If need human back up anyway, then need driverless for what?

Sounds like some pet project from a new politician eager to make his mark in a short time, but not solving any real problems

365, [18/6/2025 11:37 am]

That's like asking why teaching a child how to read take so long? Sometimes that's the way it is, humans take time to learn, validate and verify. Will you ask why it takes so long to teach a child quantum physics? Why can't teach them from ground up within 1 year? 1 month?

365, [18/6/2025 11:38 am]

Can have human back up, you can have more vehicles managed per human, thus efficiency.

G, [18/6/2025 11:40 am]

To my knowledge, new drivers need to get class 3 license (outsourced to SSDC, etc) before upgrading to whatever license class the busses require (in house training)

It is this outsourcing that's the bottle neck. 

Last time can get class 3 license very fast, within 2 months. Now driving schools kena dominated by bots. 

Curriculum won't change. But how to access the curriculum is the bottleneck

G, [18/6/2025 11:41 am]

So if the human back up is 3km or 30 min away from driverless vehicle accident site during peak hour, how to manage?

365, [18/6/2025 11:41 am]

Experience in the industry is that most attacks are still from social engineering i.e people issue and not tech issue.

The very sophisticated attacks are usually state sponsored, if they can manage to penetrate, this kind of driverless transport is not the prime target, if will be our communications water, energy, finance, etc...

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:41 am]

True

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:42 am]

Singapore highest scam rate. Sg needs to handle that 1st

365, [18/6/2025 11:43 am]

And that's class 3. Even class 3 need 2 months already, moreover this is bus, requires more training and more validation. Number of trainers limited also, training buses is another resource limitation as well. Outsourcing is to your knowledge, when was this, is it confirmed?

365, [18/6/2025 11:44 am]

That is mainly a people issue, not a tech issue.

365, [18/6/2025 11:44 am]

You can have the strongest unbreakable cryptography, but people can still willingly give passwords or other information.

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:45 am]

Want everyone to upgrade. Not everyone cope in same rate. To upgrade go for corses, need to pay, if fail. Those in their 50s 60s, all of a sudden go back to books. Need time to be able to do all this ai stuff

G, [18/6/2025 11:45 am]

Outsourcing = enrol in driving school for class 3 license 

Do the bus companies have inhouse training and qualifications for class 3 license?

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:45 am]

People who have upgraded also hard to find jobs

365, [18/6/2025 11:46 am]

Currently bus breakdown also not immediately can move off, it's still sending another bus over. Driverless bus maybe can remote to go over, thus few ppl in hq can manage multiple buses to assist.

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:46 am]

when it comes to terrorism or jihadist attack...everything goes...

no rules no restrictions.

if i am terrorists...or jihadists...i can thing of many ways to do it

what is the best way to do all out terrorism attack.

create mass disruption to divert attention and then assault the crucial facilities.

even if cannot assual crucial facilities..

i keep creating cyber attack to create mass disruption and "inconvenience" until everyone is suffering from fatigue.

.....

with driverless transportation...it is the best place to start with to create mass disruption or destruction.

hijack as many driverless transport as possible and ...let the party begin

Ginie/Komal ZENDORA J, [18/6/2025 11:46 am]

Find jobs for Singaporean not take them away

365, [18/6/2025 11:46 am]

That is something we do not know, so how can you accuse that this is the case and claim it's a process issue?

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:48 am]

anyway lets focus on more near term issue.

with driverless transportation..

what is the government to do to handle those drivers that are affected or displaced By driverless technology

365, [18/6/2025 11:51 am]

I think you are underestimating how crucial the other sectors are and overestimating the capabilities of adversaries. Again, this is coming from experience in the industry. How to hijack driverless? You need to target the communications between the vehicle and remote control first. By then, your communications is already compromised, which as of currently technology is achieved by state sponsored attackers, signaling a war with another country already. Tech capabilities of most adversaries are not strong enough to penetrate, because of limited time and resources. That's why they always target on people side, social engineering, which can apply regardless of driverless technology.

G, [18/6/2025 11:51 am]

Yes. Currently, there's the human in the loop, on site, ready to respond and manage the situation should an accident or breakdown occur on the bus.

Driverless bus got who? HQ where? How long before someone is managing situation onsite to ensure things remain manageable and not blown out of control?

G, [18/6/2025 11:53 am]

Just go read the hiring criteria, and why is it an accusation?

G, [18/6/2025 11:54 am]

Wasn't bots booking lessons at driving schools in the news recently?

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:55 am]

not overestimating at all. 

there are many ways to do it combine low tech with high tech assault.

..........

keep point : constant and consistent mass disruption until the people are fatigue

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:55 am]

Tbh now only can push out smaller driving bus which don't made any difference

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:56 am]

You push out light rail bus then it makes a difference

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 11:56 am]

it is to prepare for mass implementation, isn't it.

so this is just a test run.

G, [18/6/2025 11:57 am]

If 6 months to 1 year required to train bus drivers, why is driverless vehicles the answer?

Why is "6 months to 1 year" a problem? 

What is a good duration? 3 months to 6 months? What was the duration 10 years ago?

What's the duration required to train up human back ups for driverless vehicles?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:57 am]

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/entrepreneur-proposes-bus-light-rail-hybrid-system/

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:57 am]

I think this technology is better

G, [18/6/2025 11:58 am]

If NS can be cut from 2.5 years to 2 years thru extensive process reviews, why can't bus driver training?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 11:58 am]

Autonomous bus not a solution

365, [18/6/2025 11:59 am]

Talking about training outsourcing, not even about the bots. The training of 3 to 6 months is just bus training, obviously not including the requirement for class 3. Then the issue lies with availability of applicants, and not the training itself already.

365, [18/6/2025 11:59 am]

Respond and manage how? What can the bus driver do apart from stopping by roadside and waiting for next bus to assist?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:00 pm]

Investing on such system will be better. For crowded services

365, [18/6/2025 12:00 pm]

Sure, at the same time let's review and cut the basic education duration from 10 years to just 5. We can get more people to start working early.

G, [18/6/2025 12:00 pm]

Are you sure that is all? Who put the triangle vehicle breakdown sign?

Without the driver or human back up in the driverless bus, who does this?

The passenger? No passenger how?

G, [18/6/2025 12:01 pm]

Why is this comparison relevant?

365, [18/6/2025 12:02 pm]

Because you are making it sound like everything can just review and cut down duration. What is your expectations then? Train in 1 month? 1 week? 3 days? Based on what criteria?

G, [18/6/2025 12:03 pm]

Based on job requirement, job tasks 

U mean u know what job a child is going to be doing when the child is 5 years old?

Bus drivers.. it's a job with specific tasks, not some general education school

365, [18/6/2025 12:03 pm]

Cannot have a new system? It's a new vehicle, can add new hardware to it to signal breakdown instead of triangle.

365, [18/6/2025 12:04 pm]

Sure, so I ask you back, what is your expectations, and based on what criteria you come what with these expectations? I want the bus driver train 3 hours come out ready can?

G, [18/6/2025 12:04 pm]

Isn't it traffic law to put triangle?

365, [18/6/2025 12:04 pm]

Law has been amended with new circumstances. 377A used to be law as well.

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 12:05 pm]

for certain training...the duration of training cannot be reduced.... without affecting the competency and capabilities of the workers.

we can have fast food.. but we cannot have fast trained competent people for the job

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 12:06 pm]

if has fast competent people for the job, that means these people are good...if they are good...why the freak they want to be at such lower tier salary and status job if there are better opportunities

G, [18/6/2025 12:09 pm]

Already mentioned. 

Why is 6 mths to 1 year duration unacceptable in the minister's eyes such that the solution is driverless vehicles?

To me 6 mths to 1 year is acceptable training duration for bus driver training. 

Unless it can be shown to the public that all other process reviews have been carried out, and current driver training duration is unacceptable, then it is worth it to spend public resources on some technology that only may resolve some problems

Driverless vehicles require a whole set of new maintenance regimes and even new expensive test infrastructures, perhaps even a new test circuit / facility. All these require heavy investment, typically from tax money

365, [18/6/2025 12:13 pm]

You are the one who asked "why so long?" and then now you say it's acceptable to you?

The duration of training is normal for bus training, but normal is not sufficient to meet the demands now.

G, [18/6/2025 12:20 pm]

So driverless vehicles is the answer?

Why? Why is driverless vehicles good stewardship of public resources?

G, [18/6/2025 12:23 pm]

Was the costs of driverless vehicles already factored in to the GST increases from 7% to 9% or should we expect more GST increases in the future for these driverless vehicles?

365, [18/6/2025 12:23 pm]

Can't get enough people, then you reduce dependency on people

365, [18/6/2025 12:24 pm]

Gst was going to increase regardless of this, the crux of gst is aging population medical cost

G, [18/6/2025 12:24 pm]

So means we should expect more GST increases because of driverless vehicles?

365, [18/6/2025 12:25 pm]

That is your own assumption

G, [18/6/2025 12:26 pm]

Not an unreasonable one

Adam, [18/6/2025 12:26 pm]

Literally everything we blame gst. Is it correct?

365, [18/6/2025 12:27 pm]

Seems like his SOP

365, [18/6/2025 12:28 pm]

So pampered that even such a minimal tax rate still can complain for years to come. Haven't compared to other countries sale tax before

G, [18/6/2025 12:30 pm]

To me, this driverless vehicles thing is a pet project, trying to solve something that doesn't look like a problem. 

I want to know why public resources are being spent on a new politician's pet project, which would incur significant follow on operational spending (thus potentially need to increase gst), instead of performing thorough review processes (like for NS, resulting in duration cut from 2.5 years to 2 years)

365, [18/6/2025 12:34 pm]

2 things:

Just because you don't think there's a problem, doesn't mean there isn't one.

You don't have to wait for problems to occur before you try to improve something.

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 12:36 pm]

the possible issue is Singapore low birth rate...

maybe driverless transportation is the result of it.

all issues are interlinked

Adam, [18/6/2025 12:39 pm]

🤔 maybe some politician has a stake in some sg autonomous startup

G, [18/6/2025 12:43 pm]

It is a problem when politicians want to spend public resources on their own pet projects. 

It's not a problem when politicians want to spend public resources to address a well defined problem that taxpayers can relate to

G, [18/6/2025 12:45 pm]

Then early declaration will help avert a whole lot of potential follow on issues

365, [18/6/2025 12:45 pm]

1. Pet project is your assumption.

2. Improvements don't have to target just problems, it can be proactive improvements. The intent for this is stated to be improvements for last mile journey.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:47 pm]

I think this project is just a normal improvement. Not really designated to solve the root cause

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:49 pm]

10 years ago how much is our population? 

Now got how much? 

That's why need to speed up the deployment of bus to transport us (牛马)

G, [18/6/2025 12:51 pm]

Yes. But why is driverless vehicles the solution?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:51 pm]

Because easy to deploy. No need man power

365, [18/6/2025 12:51 pm]

Because it reduces the dependency on having to get additional drivers for these routes?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:52 pm]

If I want to change route with drivers I need to bring them to familiarise the route

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 12:52 pm]

With autonomous vehicle no need liao

RY, [18/6/2025 12:56 pm]

Gd question to LTA

RY, [18/6/2025 1:01 pm]

LTA may require to think the next era of transport, that is air/flying taxi/transport 

Some countries are already on trial with flying taxi eg europe/korea

G, [18/6/2025 1:04 pm]

Really? 

Then breakdown how? 

Accident how?

Who will manage the situation on site?

G, [18/6/2025 1:06 pm]

What about backene support?

How long and how much does it take to recruit and train the back end "HQ"? And how many back end "HQ" is required?

Does that justify driverless vehicles?

RY, [18/6/2025 1:06 pm]

SG public transport is one of the best in the world 

Although there maybe "hiccups" in our train system on/off, as no system is without any breakdown 

Govt is also doing a gd job to encourage people to take public transport rather than driving car, so as to reduce the traffic/pollution, in order to achieve zero carbon goal (win-win situation)

Adam, [18/6/2025 1:08 pm]

What if we make dedicated lanes for driverless vehicles. Block people from enetering so wont have accidents. 

To make it scale better, it can be big to hold more people like buses. Can even chain multiple vehicles together like the old buses that can bend in middle. 

Since they have dedicated lanes, we can optimise for energy efficiency. Instead of tires, we can make metal wheels to go on metal tracks.

G, [18/6/2025 1:08 pm]

But need how many more non-drivers "HQ" to support?

What's the increased in dependency in "HQ" support?

365, [18/6/2025 1:15 pm]

I don't know if you understand technology, but usually as it improves, less people are required to operate. Now you need minimally 1 driver for 1 bus at anytime. If one operator can manage at least 2 buses, it's already an efficiency improvement.

You can even benefit from the increase in available pool of applicants as you no longer need to have class 3 to start.

Also, training requirements for improved tech usually requires less training time.

Maybe the world you live in is different, but that's my experience.

RY, [18/6/2025 1:18 pm]

In fact, many tourists/foreigners are quite impressed by our well-connected MRT/bus system in SG

Driverless is a new era for transport system, similar to EV car in the latest trend of energy

We already have driverless MRT system 

SG has to move towards the latest trend as our world advancing to AI era

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 1:18 pm]

Emergency communication button

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 1:19 pm]

Just like how trains work. It will stop on the road or the nearest bus stop

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 1:19 pm]

Then wait for the next bus

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [18/6/2025 1:20 pm]

I always think it's not about MRT being the alternative for MRT. It's is your bus network solid enough as a solid alternative in the MRT. Because LTA chose to keep nerfing our bus network that's why when MRT breakdown then people realise, our alternative is not strong enough.

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [18/6/2025 1:21 pm]

For once the transport minister seems okay. But I'll continue to scrutinise his moves on public transport.

Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 1:26 pm]

Agree with reducing dependency on  drivers, especially with low local population who rarely want to be career bus drivers

Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 1:28 pm]

My concern would be what happens if accident or breakdown, who is liable or pay the damages? This is a common topic when discuss about AI and no human intervention.

Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 1:29 pm]

Driverless trains are easy to identify because they don't share road with other transports. 

But mixing drivers and driverless without a proper framework, insurance or transport companies could deny liability

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 1:34 pm]

Full investigation first if its the automonous vehicle at fault company pay. If the latter then driver pay

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 1:35 pm]

I think companies will also buy insurance for the bus

G, [18/6/2025 1:42 pm]

Yes. This is always when things go well. I'm concerned for scenarios when things don't go well 

When things go well, you can promise and sell the moon, and people will be hoodwinked

Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 1:42 pm]

But which 'company' pay? The AI creator company or transport?

Is also difficult to prove if is the driverless system go haywire or the other driver at fault

Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 1:44 pm]

Classic AI question, sacrifice(or injure) bus of 5 to save 1 person on the road?

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 2:01 pm]

📢Topic📢

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 2:01 pm]

365, [18/6/2025 2:19 pm]

Don't take risk (calculated), cannot advance. You go out can get into accident is also a risk, nothing is 100%. Not getting into an accident is also "when things go well", but we don't just stay cooped up everyday. 

If you want to stagnate behind because you're afraid of everything unknown, that's your perogative. I rather we continue advancing whilst exploring possibilities.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:21 pm]

Our MRT started with driver.

And then become autonomous - driverless because of advent of more reliable and sophisticated C4 (Command control communication and computer) system.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:25 pm]

Similarly, public buses will also move from driver to driverless system.

Except that public buses on the road unlike MRT that travel on a fixed rail need to adapt to a more dynamic and ever changing road conditions.

Hence AI and sensors in the driverless buses must be rock solid.

Also a more predictable road conditions like fixed bus lane, less traffic conditions will be more suitable for driverless autonomous public buses.

Not all roads can use totally driverless.

A hybrid driver and driverless public bus mix will be more ideal.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:28 pm]

Agreed in our constant transformation when tech disruptor such as AI, robotics come into play, it will impact jobs.

But we cannot stop evolving to embrace new technology, else we will become uncompetitive and left behind.

Hence there is a real need to look into the job prospects of the drivers that need jobs to sustain their living while we gradually transform to driverless AI public buses.


G, [18/6/2025 2:33 pm]

Yes. But the risks have not been explained by the minister right? Neither have the problem been framed properly. Neither have the explanation for why driverless vehicles is the solution for the problem

There's hasn't been any meaningful rebuttal to questions asked other than rhetoric about stagnation and risks.

Just because we could go ahead with this does not mean we should

We could also build a launch pad to shoot some astronauts to the moon from tekong but should we? Why stagnate behind in the space race? Why stagnate behind Elon musk's space X?


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:38 pm]

Eg. When computers are invented, we stop adopting because we need to protect jobs for typists - then Singapore economy will still be in the 1960s - unable to create higher value added jobs for computer scientists, many sectors jobs that uses computers eg. Banks, manufacturing, logistics, accounting etc.

Hence we cannot stop the adoption of new even disruptive tech.

In fact, we should retrain our workers to handle the new tech and reap higher salaries.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:52 pm]

Looking at what the Minister is directed at, the driverless public buses are mainly to be deployed in those more ulu, less developed, less reachable by main or service bus routes to MRT or main public transport serviceable routes or even private hire or taxi that want to ply (as it is not so profitable).

Hence driverless public buses will be a good fit - because there will be less traffic on the roads and a more predictable road conditions that are more suitable for the driverless public buses to ply.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 2:56 pm]

1. For those main routes with many traffic and unpredictable road conditions, I guess driver buses will still be needed.

2. Also finding enough bus drivers to ply those ulu, less profitable and shorter routes have always been a challenge.

3. Notice the majority of the bus drivers are foreigners rather than locals.

4. Hence, if the driverless public buses that ply more outskirts roads are successful, then less stress for us to get more foreigners and less crowded for our spaces which is also a good outcome.


Khai Mun L., [18/6/2025 2:56 pm]

Then if not driverless, what alternatives can propose?

Hire more foreign drivers? Cannot cut number of drivers, there only 1 per vehicle.

Build more roads, or mrt tracks? Need more people to maintain and drive new vehicles.

Give everyone vehicles? Traffic and parking congestion..

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 2:57 pm]

My alternative solution

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 2:58 pm]

Something like that but can be modified to Singapore context

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 2:59 pm]

Can be driver less too but much bigger to accommodate more people

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:01 pm]

Suitable for long distance bus service and shorter feeder service within tengah and new estate

xXx.SCAR.xXx, [18/6/2025 3:05 pm]

Excellent step forward into the future, can't wait for it to be implemented.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:15 pm]

One thing particularly interest me.

The Transport Minister agree with my points that:-

1. Disruption to the MRT is bound to happen - even with the best maintained system. Because mechanical and electrical stuff do sometimes fail without warning.

2. Hence to emulate 100% no failure rate - is to have redundant line.

One fail, just hop over to the other line. In this case the circle line and the future cross island line come into operation.

Emulating no break in services.

Meeting of minds ........


G, [18/6/2025 3:29 pm]

This ☝️ string of sentences don't make any sense:

So bus driver training is a problem

More buses and building depots and interchanges is a problem

And his solution is driverless buses?

Driverless vehicles don't need training?

Driverless vehicles don't need to be bought? Are they free?

Driverless vehicles don't need new depots and interchanges?

He said "Introducing new bus services is not straightforward"

But isn't introducing driverless vehicles even less straightforward? There's also no explanation on why introducing driverless vehicles is more straightforward


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:30 pm]

My close friend comments:-

Yes, agree. 

For each new technology, we won't know if it will suddenly become disruptive. 

So positioning ourselves to be early adopters is better than late adopters. 

Know the problems early, contextualize our own solutions and test them early. Pervasive implementation is always difficult and process long drawn. 

Or a handful of drivers, driving public transport from a data centre (through remote monitoring and control) for whole of Singapore.

That is, autonomous driving may require interventions. But what if one driver can take care of several driverless buses at any one time. 

They sit inside a control centre and direct several autonomous buses. But first thing first, the autonomous buses must be able to drive by itself under most conditions.

Disruptive tech is unstoppable. We cannot pretend internet is non existent and continue to confine kids to a few textbooks.

Step by step... Otherwise, we can't jump the big step at one go. Also depends on how the tech develop.

Maybe one day, limo mama (Limo mama refers to mothers who drive their children to school) can drive her children to school from home/office 😉.

So parents can drive their children while still in office or at home one day.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:33 pm]

I think for now automonous bus cannot be deployed in busy roads

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:33 pm]

As so far it only tested on carpark like area


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:33 pm]

Not yet.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:34 pm]

I think deploy in nus campus first to see if it works

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:34 pm]

Then testing on more complex situations like mrt to hospital


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:34 pm]

Have deployed and run for many years already.

Working well.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:35 pm]

Large scale where every bus is automonous

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:35 pm]

As I afraid AI and AI may interfere

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:36 pm]

Like what if a ambulance is behind

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:37 pm]

Then slowly try to deploy in 3 lanes road where the speed limit is 70km/h to test


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:37 pm]

Light traffic with driver and driverless working well in Buona Vista and NUS.

But not heavy traffic.

AI driverless buses need to learn the route.

Cannot anyhow throw into an unlearn roads.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:37 pm]

Minister said program it can liao

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:38 pm]

Can easily program it to another route


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:39 pm]

Not so easy to program just like that.

Because road conditions will change.

AI buses need to learn from datasets and sensors collected data.

AI buses need to be trained.

If program is not AI, because AI is meant to learn.

The program in AI is for it to train and learn - not programming that performs a set task but unable to adapt and learn.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:39 pm]

Cause confirm some bus services will enter a 3 lanes roads. It's not like nus or ntu just a single lane

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 3:40 pm]

There's a lot of lane changing on bigger roads


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 3:40 pm]

Yes.

That's why simple roads can.

More complex roads still cannot.


REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 4:01 pm]

📢Topic📢

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 4:01 pm]

G, [18/6/2025 4:20 pm]

🤣 So actually:

1. Still need to hire drivers...

2. Still need 6 months - 1 year training (maybe even more because now safety driver also need to jaga the "driverless" systems)

And good luck trying to convince these new safety drivers to train the systems that will eventually put these very drivers out of job 👍

G, [18/6/2025 4:26 pm]

Isn't this contrary to the govt's push in the last decade to decentralise from the city centre? 

e.g. Wasn't there much fanfare for the jurong lake district, to have more businesses there https://www.jld.gov.sg/

So now, want to design a public transport system to cater to an economy centralised in the city centre?


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 4:40 pm]

My close friend comments:-

The application or use case scenarios may not be as straight forward as we now think. 

Eg under extreme climate conditions, autonomous vehicles can deliver goods close to door step and shorten/ minimise human exposure to extreme weather.  

Defence purposes can also be deployed to minimise casualties.


My comments:-

Yes there are alot more use case with AI driverless autonomous vehicles - not just driverless public busess on the road.

PSA use autonomous truck to deliver good containers from shippping liners to warehouse. Previously need to employ 10 drivers (mostly foreigners) to unload containers from ship to 10 trucks. 

Now 1 or 2 drivers in data centre can control and manage 10 driverless AI autonomous trucks.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 4:50 pm]

I feel the technology is not mature enough to use it on roads. Only can use it in carpark setting

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 4:50 pm]

Maybe can test on feeder bus

Joomua Tng, [18/6/2025 4:50 pm]

yes.. it benefits businesses more than people. (layman perspective)


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 4:52 pm]

1. I realise a few merits of these driverless public buses initiatives which are :-


a. More bus services are rolled out to less accessible and ulu remote places. Commuters will find travelling more convenient going to work, study and play.

Not restrained by less bus services because unable to recruit more bus captains mainly foreigners to man the feeder services.


b. Also salaries of bus captains now pretty high $2,700 to $5,000 per month, with some even reaching $5,500 or more.

Can have more savings for bus companies translated into lesser needs to increase bus fares for commuters.


c. In longer run, can even extend the services of the bus after midnight - because only need to manage by a few central controllers at data centre working in 3 shifts (not constrained by lack of bus captains after midnight).


d. Theoretically need lesser bigger depots and interchanges because it can ply the roads continuously without the need to dock in depots and interchanges for bus captains to change shifts because they are remotely centrally controlled.

Only need charger stations to charge the driverless bus and then continue to ply the road.

Only need maintenance workshops.


Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 4:54 pm]

But a lot of places still don't have bus.i am concerned if the lim chu kang area would deploy additional routes


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 4:55 pm]

I think driverless public buses can achieve these by plying these ulu routes.


365, [18/6/2025 5:04 pm]

Technology has reached the current limit for how fast we can churn out drivers. Thus, exploring new technology. With the reproduction issue, it doesn't take much to understand that we will be losing more manpower for such services, thus the need to have many vehicles to one operator.

If government have to explain every single detail for every single project, it'll take ages to get anything moving, having an inefficient and paralyzed government unable to accomplish anything concrete. When we moved up to a developed countries, many details in project are also not explicitly stated, just the top level overview.

You train 1 person for 1 bus, vs you train 1 person for many buses, which one will be more efficient? Early on may be tough and need a lot of finetuning, but look at long term benefits when there's more experience and able to bring down training time instead of looking at just the immediate term. Things take time.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:28 pm]

Like dairy farm I feel that it is a attraction but no public transport Access.

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:30 pm]

Gedong to Chua chu kang took more than 45 min bus ride

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:31 pm]

And the bus don't directly drop off at gedong drop off points

RY, [18/6/2025 5:31 pm]

Gd qns for insurance company to further study, when there is any traffic accident ins claimt?

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:32 pm]

These are the problems I think always overlooked by transport minister

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:32 pm]

Another place, changi village there no direct bus from pasir ris interchange to changi village


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:34 pm]

That's why driverless public buses will have alot of merits if deployed.

Those are the roads that big public service cannot ply not enough drivers.

Private hire also don't want to go.

No profit.


RY, [18/6/2025 5:35 pm]

If I am rem correctly, tertiary campus/sentosa already started driverless shuttle few years ago

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:37 pm]

Although these roads are ulu and far do gov think a faster transport to mrt is better? Like a lrt

Jun Ming, [18/6/2025 5:38 pm]

Or looping to kranji

RY, [18/6/2025 5:41 pm]

If I rem recent news, PSA started using AI to schedule their truck, so as to reduce empty truck on the road and fully utilise the resouces 

They have not started the driverless trucks on the road ...


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:42 pm]

I think they do.

There is even a video showing the end to end operation.

Not on the road but from ship liners to the warehouse within the ports.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:43 pm]

PSA (Port of Singapore Authority) is actively using driverless trucks, specifically automated guided vehicles (AGVs) (https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-vivo-rvo3&hl=en-SG&cs=0&sca_esv=89a14cf8da278dde&sxsrf=AE3TifPla9AqWC-a5RFQh9d8VLFCjWTLTg%3A1750239783643&q=automated+guided+vehicles+%28AGVs%29&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjSx5uk1_qNAxV-RmcHHf6FAHgQxccNegQIBBAB&mstk=AUtExfCr70BfDiBw66PS7dXfhd8omIp63yJW963r0zZ7O6VYj6WvRQClpC_tyyp6ICEWItmcNIi1HK7ZSyiB3bMdcgA-h_lbrFTLwhPswpFNh9WmpqlqY1ybIK93_cPdtib_A6tXgFv9lCB5n2dvur4sYkJeB5sPYrHcDzDtQFbyTpyF24c&csui=3), to transport containers between the ship's side (quayside) and the container yard, and potentially from the yard to warehouses. These AGVs are part of PSA's broader efforts to automate its port operations and improve efficiency. 

Source :- Google AI


RY, [18/6/2025 5:45 pm]

Maybe within PSA  but not outside road yet


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:46 pm]

Yes within the ports not on the road yet


RY, [18/6/2025 5:52 pm]

There were in recent news in USA abt autonomous Telsa driving, that lead to traffic accidents and death cases 

Whose fault to charge at court, also another arena that govt require to look into in near future in "legal aspects" for autonomous driving also


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:56 pm]

Tesla's driverless system, known as Full Self-Driving (FSD), has been involved in several accidents, raising concerns about its safety. One recent incident involved a Tesla Model 3 crashing into a tree after suddenly swerving off the road, despite being on a straight road with no traffic. The driver, who was using FSD version 13.2.8, claimed the car "just drove itself into the ditch".

*Key Factors Contributing to Accidents:*

- *Lack of LiDAR Technology*: Tesla's reliance on camera-based systems, without LiDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) technology, might be a contributing factor. LiDAR provides more accurate distance measurements and better performance in low-light conditions.

- *Limitations of Camera-Based Systems*: Cameras can struggle with ambient light, weather conditions, and complex scenarios, which might lead to accidents.

- *Human Oversight Required*: FSD is a Level 2 driver assistance system, requiring constant human oversight. Drivers must remain vigilant and ready to take control at any moment ¹ ² ³.

*Potential Solutions:*

- *Improved Sensor Suite*: Incorporating LiDAR and radar technology could enhance safety and accuracy.

- *Enhanced Software*: Continued advancements in machine learning and computer vision could improve FSD's performance.

- *Stricter Regulations*: Clearer guidelines and regulations for autonomous vehicle development and deployment might help ensure safety and accountability ¹.

Source:- Meta AI


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:57 pm]

Tesla didn't use proven driverless technology for its driverless cars. Specifically sensors technology.

That's why accident prone.


Hanny, [18/6/2025 5:58 pm]

All new technologies take time to be accepted. There will be resistance. Gov needs to have a plan on how it will introduce the new buses. Start small. Gauge the acceptance.

RY, [18/6/2025 5:58 pm]

PSA is a restricted entry area for public, only for authorised staffs just like Jurong Island - my understanding 

I rem have to apply permit for entry when I went Jurong island years ago


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 5:58 pm]

Yes.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:00 pm]

Driverless AI autonomous vehicles incorporated alot of very advanced AI, sensor, computing technologies and even military technologies.

Must integrate it very well for it to work.


REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 6:01 pm]

📢Topic📢

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 6:01 pm]

Hanny, [18/6/2025 6:02 pm]

We dont have to be at the forefront in implementation. Let other countries implement and observe.

RY, [18/6/2025 6:02 pm]

Autonomous driving also has "national security" issue that govt has to look into 

Eg military base, no autonomous vehicle is allowed

Otherwise, the AI devices maybe able to obtain security info also


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:03 pm]

Elon Musk make a fatal decision for overriding his engineers to forgo LIDAR and instead used camera-based system to detect road conditions - that lead to fatal accidents when going driverless.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:04 pm]

Telsa into quite many legal cases in USA n other countries due to traffic accidents


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:05 pm]

Yes.

Tesla will have to pay a high price for ignoring sound engineering practise.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:08 pm]

Elon himself is an engineer, but he is ignoring the saftety aspect ....

Just like recent Boeing fatal air incidents

Hope our SQ buy lesser planes fm USA 

May consider China C919 or France/Germany AirBus

G, [18/6/2025 6:08 pm]

Yes, things take time. 

But so far, the problem that's been presented by the minister is not the issue you just highlighted..

It looks very much like you are finding a problem for some product/service that the minister presented

It still isn't convincing at all that whatever driver training duration/need to buy more buses, more depots, more interchanges is a problem. With increasing population, that has to be done anyway to transport more people.  it's not as if driverless vehicles will remove the need to buy more vehicles, more depots and more interchanges 

So why need driverless vehicles?


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:09 pm]

Elon let his ego and pride overwrite reasoning and logical sense.

And refuse to listen to objective facts and engineering practises.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:10 pm]

LTA/CAAS may have to consider air flying taxi/transport going forward ....

RY, [18/6/2025 6:11 pm]

Elon is quite successful in his SpaceX though


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:11 pm]

Someone told me that it is his engineers achievement.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:12 pm]

His political misjudgment could sink all his business empire.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:12 pm]

Maybe, only his SpaceX team know best then


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:13 pm]

Yes.

This is what I heard.


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:15 pm]

Elon mother is smarter than him.

His mother say, he should concentrate on his business rather than dabble with politics.

It could kill his business.

His mother prophecy comes true.

So a smart guy doesn't necessary be wise.

His mother is wiser than him.


365, [18/6/2025 6:15 pm]

Again, doesn't need to have a problem to have proactive improvements.

As you already mentioned, the demand will increase. So if demand increase and we have this gap of manpower, why not reduce (not eliminate) manpower dependency?

It's like asking why need NS when there's no attack. Now when we can still fill in people is the best time to test out new technology to go along with it, because we got a lot of leeway for failure. Do not want to wait until we need it then start scrambling for it, when we can't afford any failure.

RY, [18/6/2025 6:16 pm]

Elon IQ and EQ ... as Elon is also autistic pax, hence his mindset and intelligence are unique - fm almost bankrupt and now the world richest billionnaires 

His political and brainless support for TACO (Trump chicken out always) 👎


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:17 pm]

That's why never let success get into a person's ego.

Always be humble and stay positive.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:17 pm]

Yes, Elon is smart but he is very unwise ....


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:19 pm]

A wise person has good IQ and EQ.

A smart person may have good IQ but poor EQ - and hence can make very fatal mistake because his ego will get into his way.


RY, [18/6/2025 6:23 pm]

To summarise, autonomous driving is already the world trend, just like EV also

However, govt has many areas to look into eg legal aspect, energy, sustainalibilty and etc 

Next era will be the flying vehicles that govt may have to plan/visualise in coming years

G, [18/6/2025 6:24 pm]

We know why we need NS. The problem has been well established 

Going driverless vehicles has not proven to be an improvement? Difference? yes. Improvement? How?

If demand increase, then why not increase in number of drivers since this govt just keeps importing more people from overseas?

RY, [18/6/2025 6:26 pm]

Totally agreed 

The way Elon support and quarrel with TACO already demonstrated his EQ level 

People who are wise eg Warren Buffet, Taiwan TSMC CEO, LKY n etc


LCL (Danny 心), [18/6/2025 6:33 pm]

Air defence missile use laser or radar to lock an intruding missile coming at very high speed real time and can pin point and can accurately shoot down using kinetic force even in bad weather.

(Essentially LIDAR technology).

Never an air defence use camera base system to lock and pin point intruding target.

Likewise in driverless cars, LIDAR will be the right technologies to deploy to do collision detection and avoidance.

Simple military technologies knowledge.

But as engineer, Elon choose to override it.

Sure result in fatal accidents.


REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 6:45 pm]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [18/6/2025 7:01 pm]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊


====


Saturday, June 14, 2025

Why Bitcoin is not a good idea as financial instrument for Pension Fund - in response to independent opposition Jeremy Tan.

 14 Jun 2025


1. Bitcoin in a "wild wild west" (programming code) - not under the control of any Central Bank in the Worldd - hence subject to risk of defund, unrecognise, no support, default, disown. (Unlike CPF is guaranteed by Singapore Government).


2. Bitcoin is a haven for money lauderers, tax evaders, illegal hoaders, criminal finance heaven.


3. Bitcoin can be hack and can be stolen online.

i. Exchange hacks: Hackers target cryptocurrency exchanges, gaining access to users' wallets and private keys.

ii. Phishing attacks: Scammers trick users into revealing their login credentials or private keys through fake websites or emails.

iii. Wallet vulnerabilities: Hackers exploit weaknesses in wallet software or apps to gain unauthorized access.

iv. Private key theft: If a user's private key is compromised, hackers can access and control their Bitcoin.

(Note:- Rouge state hackers have stolen Bitcoin in big amount - and no way to recover).


4. Jeremy Tan request for regulatory changes to support Bitcoin - indicate that Bitcoin is not a safe financial instrument for pension fund.

Introspect, as Bitcoin is created in the wild - not created by Singapore MAS Central Bank - how does regulatory changes to support Bitcoin - help to ensure investment in Bitcoin is safe (short of using taxpayers' money to support it or compensate any loss in Bitcoin? --- This is what Jeremy Tan actual intention is.)


5. No Central Banks in the World - support and guarantee Bitcoin (and in fact warn that Bitcoin is not suitable for retail investors to their citizens due to its inherent high risk).

Instead many Cental Banks have developed their own cryptocurrency using Blockchain and tie up their cryptocurrencies with different Countries to faciliate cross payment. Singapore cryptocurrency is Project Ubin.


6. Though our Sovereign Funds invest in some cryptocurrency exchanges and traders and MAS issue licenses to some crypto exchanges - MAS messages is very clear. The risk is high.

Retail cryptocurrency investment is discouraged.


7. If mining Bitcoin can make people rich and no worries about inflation, why Countries all over the world especially rich and more population - with alot of resources mine Bitcoin, no need to work, and get rich?

Precisely it is not easy and practically not possible to mine Bitcoin for everyone simply:-

a. Bitcoin is limited and finite

b. Need specialised skillsets, knowledge, software and effort

c. Need alot of computing power - CPU, power/energy, water, DC resources

Jeremy Bitcoin idea is for his own effort to enrich himself - and cannot be roll out as government policies to enrich everyone - because it is not practical and enforceable.

Else the whole World will already have done it.

Even if Singapore can mine all the finite Bitcoin - but no one in the World honour it, it becomes worthless (because it is just a programming code). If there is demand, there is value. If no demand, the value is 0.


8. Once firmly in the realm of science fiction, quantum computers have become so advanced that they could plausibly rip through Bitcoin’s cryptography within five years or less. 
Government agencies like the US National Institute of Standards and Technology and the National Security Agency are aiming to fully transition to quantum-secure standards by 2030. Yet the Bitcoin community appears confined to theoretical solutions, like BIP-360 (Pay-to-Quantum-Resistant-Hash) or commit-delay-reveal schemes. 
The time for theorizing is over. If concrete steps to adapt the Bitcoin blockchain aren’t taken now, Bitcoin’s entire $2.2-trillion market cap could go up in smoke. All it would take would be one compromised wallet or botched transaction to erode 16 years of painstakingly built trust.

9. There are no control to the source code, algorithm and keys to Bitcoin as it is invented by a secretive programmer that are not accessible. How can Jeremy Tan want Singapore to take a big risk to pledge their pension fund to a financial instrument that has no guarantee and no one that has control over --- essentially his intention is to force Government to use taxpayer money to guarantee the Bitcoin if Bitcoin suddenly become inaccessible.

10. US currency as part of our reserve is used for trade purpose - back up by production activities, goods and services - guaranteed by US Government. US currency is a recognised global currency in SWIFT used by the World as currency exchange to facilitate trade. Hence Singapore investment in US Treasury Bonds about US$260 billion is about right.
Jeremy Tan try to equate Bitcoin to US$ - which is not comparable - because no Countries in the World use Bitcoin as currency exchange for trade under Government-to-Government agreement.
Bitcoin are only recognised by some companies and individuals as currency to buy goods and services - but not recognised or guarantee by their respective Government.

Hence voters need to be wise - not to fall into the suger-coating of Jeremy election speech to trick voters to trust Bitcoin as our pension funds.
He is putting Singaporeans' life savings at risk - by his misinformed pitch for Bitcoin.

Monday, June 9, 2025

Diplomatic protocol etiquette

 06 Jun 2025

心法:

@Babe:1. In a formal event, the diplomatic protocol is for the guest of honor to shake hand with the host first.
2. The host will then introduce his staff one by one and shake hands.
3. Else it breach a diplomatic protocol.
4. Any Foreign Head of State shake hand with guard that open the car door without shaking the host Head of State?

@Babe:@Babe:In informal meet the resident session, then shake hand with any residents that come to you first.
But this is a formal business event.
Hence following the correct diplomatic protocol is more important.

@Babe:Failure to do so in a formal event, breach diplomatic protocol.

@Babe:1. What the MOS did is following a proper diplomatic protocol in a formal event.
2. The clan members didn't follow a proper diplomatic protocol.

@Babe:Uncle got a big heart.

@Babe:1. So shake hand with a guard 1st to indicate he more senior than the Head of State - is correct diplomatic protocol?
2. To shake hands with the senior 1st, means she treat the host as more junior? Correct protocol?

@Babe:1. Go to take a course on business social etiquette when organizing a business events.
2. Go to take a course on proper government diplomatic protocol etiquette if organizing a government events before criticizing.

@Babe:Shame on the social media without establishing the right protocol before jumping into conclusion.

@Babe:When receiving a minister at a formal event, proper etiquette is crucial. Here's how to handle car door opening, receiving the minister, and introducing company staff:

Receiving the Minister
- *Designate a Point of Contact*: Appoint a senior staff member or protocol officer to receive the minister and handle introductions.
- *Respectful Greeting*: Greet the minister with a respectful bow or handshake, using their title (e.g., "The Honorable") and surname.
- *Escorting the Minister*: Escort the minister to the event venue, ensuring they are accompanied at all times.

Opening Car Door
- *Designate a Person*: Assign a staff member or driver to open the car door for the minister.
- *Protocol*: The person opening the door should stand at the door, greet the minister, and allow them to exit the vehicle.

Introducing Company Staff
- *Prepare a Brief Introduction*: Prepare a brief introduction of company staff who will interact with the minister, including their role and title.
- *Use Formal Titles*: Use formal titles (e.g., Mr./Ms./Mrs./Dr.) and surnames when introducing staff to the minister.
- *Be Mindful of Hierarchy*: Introduce staff in order of seniority, with the most senior staff member introduced first ¹.

Additional Tips
- *Be Respectful*: Maintain a respectful demeanor and tone when interacting with the minister.
- *Follow Protocol Guidelines*: Familiarize yourself with specific protocol guidelines provided by the minister's office or government agency.
- *Ensure Smooth Logistics*: Ensure all logistical arrangements, including transportation and venue setup, are well-planned and executed.

@Babe:1. Conversely if the Minister shaking hands with everybody else and reserve the last handshake to the host or CEO, by not following diplomatic protocol - everyone think is ok?

It becomes a big slap on the host face who invited you.

Hence observing diplomatic protocol etiquette is imperative in a formal event.

What's wrong with that?

Wednesday, June 4, 2025

REACH (Telegram) 79 -  What are your views on LTA’s East-West-Line Disruption Report? What are your views on the efforts made to ensure the reliability of our public transportation systems?

(SK)

04 Jun 2025 (10am - 7pm)


REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 9:50 am]

Dear Contributors,

Welcome Back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

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1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

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Full set of Terms of Use: https://www.reach.gov.sg/Participate/reach-telegram-group/REACH-Telegram-Group-Chat-Terms-of-Use/

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. 

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies. 

The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 10:03 am]

📢 Topic 📢

Rail operator SMRT will be fined $3 million for a major six-day disruption on the East-West Line (EWL) in September 2024, said the Land Transport Authority (LTA) on June 3.

In a report released on June 3, LTA said the lapses which led to the disruption included maintenance intervals being extended beyond stipulations, in part due to COVID-19 delays on new train arrivals. LTA also said that the penalty was “proportionate” to the circumstances of the incident, which crippled MRT services between Jurong East and Buona Vista stations and disrupted about one in six train trips daily.

💬 What are your views on LTA’s East-West-Line Disruption Report? What are your views on the efforts made to ensure the reliability of our public transportation systems?

📌 Findings from the incident

LTA said degraded grease was likely to have caused a faulty part of a train’s undercarriage to fall out, which precipitated the disruption on the morning of Sept 25, 2024.

The part – called an axle box, which holds the train’s wheels to the axle, a rod connecting a pair of wheels – was dislodged near Dover station while the train was being withdrawn from service to Ulu Pandan Depot.

The six-car train could continue travelling as the other 11 bogies remained on the rails. But the derailed portion of the third carriage caused extensive damage to 2.55km of track and trackside equipment, such as power cables and the third rail, which supplies power to trains.

The axle box is held in place by chevron springs – metal plates bonded together by rubber that absorb vibrations when trains are operating.

LTA said its investigation findings suggest that the bearings had produced enough heat to ignite the rubber layers between the springs, causing them to disintegrate.

The axle box and bearings were badly damaged, and the grease in the axle box had been completely burned off when these parts were later recovered. Debris from the chevron springs was also too badly damaged for tests to be done to determine any initial damage before the incident, said LTA.

📌 Overheated component not picked up

LTA said this sequence of events was substantiated by a monitoring tool that SMRT installed near Lavender station, which detected a temperature of 118 deg C on the affected axle box earlier that morning – higher than the typical operating temperature of up to 65 deg C.

A system error, however, meant that SMRT could not identify the train on which the axle box was mounted, leading to a staff member mistakenly believing the notification to be a false warning. There was no follow-up action.

In a separate probe into the incident, Singapore’s Transport Safety Investigation Bureau (TSIB), a department of the Ministry of Transport, said it had considered two possible scenarios. However, TSIB said it could not determine which scenario was more likely to have occurred, owing to the severely damaged axle box and springs.

📌 Train no longer in use

The train in question, which is no longer in use, is a Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI) train. 

At the time of the incident, the train had logged 690,000km since its last overhaul in July 2018.

During such overhauls, the axle box, bearings and chevron springs will be replaced where needed. Fresh grease will also be reapplied on the bearings.

Had the affected train been overhauled in a more timely way, the “condition of its axle box assemblies would have been checked and any degraded grease could have been replaced earlier”, LTA noted.

SMRT Trains president Lam Sheau Kai told reporters at a briefing that the operator’s overhaul regime has served it well over the last 38 years.

“What may have caught us off guard this time was the convergence of factors – delays in new train deliveries due to Covid-19, our efforts to balance and adjust overhaul schedules, and the lag in receiving critical spare parts,” he said.

📌 What SMRT, LTA did after the incident

After the incident, SMRT withdrew all KHI trains with a mileage exceeding 500,000km to undergo overhauls of the axle boxes, before they were returned to service.

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 10:03 am]

This was completed in October 2024. All 16 KHI trains that are still in service will be phased out by September.

SMRT also began tapping data analytics to detect abnormal axle box temperatures earlier. It resolved the system error with its temperature-monitoring tool, and strengthened procedures for staff to raise alerts about high temperatures in a timely manner.

It has also lowered the speed of trains being withdrawn to depots under similar scenarios to 35kmh, to limit potential damage to the tracks and trackside equipment.

SMRT is also reviewing how it approves changes to maintenance regimes.

As the owner of rail assets, LTA has beefed up its oversight of how operators manage assets, including their procedures to adjust maintenance schedules. 

LTA said it is also engaging independent advisers to get advice on operations and maintenance strategies, as well as reliability improvements.

👉https://str.sg/DnFj

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/smrt-east-west-line-ewl-disruption-lta-3-million-fine-tsib-5163921

----


여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [4/6/2025 10:05 am]

Not the first time SMRT has been fined and nothing will change as long as it remains a private-public partnership.

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [4/6/2025 10:06 am]

I'm sure a lot of people know the SMRT sagas in the early 2000s. It has gotten better since then but I'm sure internal problems have continued.

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [4/6/2025 10:15 am]

As in we'll continue to see faults in this and that major breakdowns and all. It may become the norm in the future but we should never accept this standard as the norm.

365, [4/6/2025 10:27 am]

System error but there was no follow up. Is this a process issue? Why is there no escalation?

I'm just going off on a hunch here, as I am involved in monitoring and checking works in other industries, no evidence to prove my claim so take it with a grain of salt. But there is a possibility of the employee not escalating the issue because either there is no escalation path established, or he has been reprimanded for "disturbing" the next level. 

There needs to be both a top-down and bottom-up approach to meet in the middle.

Top-down to come up with policies and establish escalation paths for deviations from expected processes.

Botton-up as the engineers are the ones doing the checks and have to report it upwards.

Not just ministry of transport, MOM has to come in as well to assure those on ground won't be penalized by SMRT, even if they were to report false positives, as long as there is sufficient reasonableness, such as deviations as seen in this case. 

Not sure if this is established in SMRT, but 3rd party whistle-blowing should be implemented, not just for potential bribary or corruption, but also for unwillingness to perform appropriate follow-up works with any telltale signs that impact operations.

Kai Bin, [4/6/2025 10:43 am]

In my opinions to further improve rail reliability for the NSEWL, I would suggest to LTA and SMRT to accelerate the delivery and testing of the new Movia trains while phasing out the older first generation KHI trains at the same time.

Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 10:58 am]

Any acceleration to bring in new trains should be balanced so that they are properly tested. Else they may break down quicker than the old trains..

E g. Thinking of old nokia phone that never break compared to newer models

RY, [4/6/2025 11:06 am]

I thought after the 2000s saga, SG govt already reviewed and learnt fm the Taiwan/Japan MTR system ?

The 2000s saga was bec the previous SMRT CEO was not focusing on train maintenance, and hence lead to many train breakdowns during that period ...he also step down bec of this

365, [4/6/2025 11:17 am]

SMRT CEO Saw Phaik Hwa resigns

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/smrt-ceo-saw-phaik-hwa-resigns.html

365, [4/6/2025 11:17 am]

This is the most prominent one I can remember

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 11:55 am]

Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

💬 What are your views on LTA’s East-West-Line Disruption Report? What are your views on the efforts made to ensure the reliability of our public transportation systems?

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Thank you!

Megan 😊

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 12:47 pm]

didn't read it..

off hand.. i expect such disruption to happen occasionally. not because the MRT team is not good.

It is because of the physical structural limitations when Singapore first build the MRT system.

If the section of the track need maintenance or upgrade it will has to be off line.

Thus, due to material amd structural " aging"  disruption is inevitable.

adding on the software and digital upgrade, chance of disruption will increase.

and with the increase of new MRT lines..the issue will pile up as years go by.

Who ever managing MRT, including MPs, will be inevitably be an easy target to blame for the incompetency.

need to review a detailed renewal, maintenance and upgrading plan based on Singapore's MRT system and structural limitations.

.................

will read the reports then get back to you on feedback m

RY, [4/6/2025 12:48 pm]

SG is well known for our efficiency, however our train system efficiency is not at par ... 

There maybe mistakes/breakdowns over the time since SG MRT started few decades - understandable 

But we may learn from other countries whom train system breakdown is good eg Taiwan 

Maintenance plays an impt part in any system operation

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 12:51 pm]

it is due to "aging", wear and tear, and material stress etc,  of material and structure.

maybe has to learn from japan on how they maintain their system.

and derive a maintenance plan and system that suit Singapore with consideration to Singapore's unique limitation

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 12:55 pm]

the digital upgrade, software compatibility and integration is also another problem..

it is like integrating window 95 software with today's window system is totally impossible.

G, [4/6/2025 1:11 pm]

Under LKY time, such tardiness would never be tolerated. 

Standards, quality, and expectations were much higher back then. Because as he said, things "just had to work".

Why should we accept lowered standards now?

Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 1:12 pm]

I don't know if japan is the pure template we have to follow. Sg public is running on interval frequency whereas japan follow timing schedule. 

Theirs can be an hour between bus, or 10mins between trains. Transport arrives punctual, but they must wait at bus stop until specific time before leaving.

Sg would specifc space for the bus to stop, and overall journey time will take longer for commuters

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:13 pm]

it is not about whose time.

when Singapore first build MRT... maintenance and upgrade was not included in the plan.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:14 pm]

we just have to make do with the current limitations and come out with a maintenance and upgrading with the least disruption as possible.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:18 pm]

i have no detail on Japan's system.

but their reputation for efficiency is there including maintenance..

the difference is that they have the land space for duplication. meaning when one side is in use for dual direction MRT operation, the other side is shut down for maintenance?

just guessing.

will have to research on Japan's MRT and Train system.

.....

unfortunately Singapore does not has the luxury of land space.

and the physical was build with current limitations, as maintenance and upgrade was not part of the plan when MRT was first built.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:21 pm]

so....it is "FFDC" , "fire fighting and damage control" on how to keep MRT disruption to the minimum.

Whoever is the CEO or MP handling this is sure to Work hard to justify their salaries.

365, [4/6/2025 1:24 pm]

What if the current breakdown was a spillover effect from the foundation built that worked at the time but then degraded because of how it was initially built?

I am not saying it is the case now, but sometimes you can inherit something that appears to work but is jank underneath that takes years before it surfaces.

G, [4/6/2025 1:24 pm]

Fare prices keep increasing, but standards keep dropping

More breakdowns

More frequent breakdowns

Longer breakdowns

How can this be acceptable?

As commuters, who cares about what internal KPIs that SMRT etc have if we can't get where we need to go at a time we need to arrive at?

Especially when so many depend on public transport, PHV getting more and more expensive because of fuel duties and GST.. don't even mention price of private transport

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:28 pm]

fare price increaseing because of operation cost, inflation, mateiral cost inflation, electricity, salaries, getting overseas expertise to come to Singapore of rectification and others.

couple these with the "aging" , wear and tear, of the MRT system, physical , and structural...

......

a big headache for CEO and MP.

........

RY, [4/6/2025 1:30 pm]

Agreed

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:33 pm]

the ceo of smrt cannot take the heat thus resign?

G, [4/6/2025 1:34 pm]

A lot of these are self inflicted costs:

Tax (GST, import etc)

Utilities

Lack of local expertise

Salaries

Too bad under saw, SMRT pivoted from an engineering / transport company to one that just look out for shareholder returns

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:43 pm]

maybe.

not sure what other businesses smrt is involved in. if mainly MRT....

then focus on it. Going to to ground as CEO, attempting to understand what are the constrain and difficulties of MRT maintenance, especially the physical structure parts of it.

Do not be afraid to gets the hands dirty on the ground.

.......

i am not sure if there is changes in the Japanese system.

those supervisors, managers and maybe CEOs started from the ground up.. they not afraid going to the ground to get their hands dirty.

because they start from the ground up, at time  they knows more than the people on the ground.

any ..i have off track from the main topic.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:46 pm]

No, the Japan MRT (mass rapid transit (https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-vivo-rvo3&hl=en-SG&cs=0&sca_esv=41514daaec8f90aa&sxsrf=AE3TifPL7nbLlKPUw5C6Lm7ZF3TmUSbwrA%3A1749015884327&q=mass+rapid+transit&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhj9Pzh9eNAxW5zDgGHcn1HWAQxccNegQIAhAB&mstk=AUtExfCYpLdKtkMHGksOJCXTXz6Qc5euyKIQSQEj3ZGRjaxG-lDXikM4CpGYwf6KFsqIdEyYV1_MzzGjlQ-_-fzIfkisNYALKYMT2VDnCdT3_42TYiddFlYuCYxh5ZnnWGmUInJX5aOcGSfeVPv-1az9UfZO6mRz6zp6MI70ooPV5rjsDwQ&csui=3), also known as subways) doesn't operate without breakdowns or delays. While it's renowned for its punctuality and high standards, incidents can and do occur. However, these are relatively infrequent and the system is generally very reliable. 

Here's a more detailed explanation:

High Standards:

Japan's train system, including MRTs, is known for its exceptional reliability and punctuality. This is due to rigorous maintenance, highly trained personnel, and a focus on precision. 

Occasional Incidents:

Despite these high standards, breakdowns and delays do happen. These can be caused by various factors, including equipment malfunctions, weather conditions, or unforeseen circumstances. 

Examples:

While it's not the norm, incidents like train derailments or delays due to weather can occur. There are also instances of specific stations being temporarily closed due to infrastructure issues. 

Effectiveness of the System:

Despite occasional incidents, the Japanese MRT system is generally considered to be one of the most reliable and punctual in the world. 

Source:- Google AI.


G, [4/6/2025 1:46 pm]

Then whoever took over, didn't put in enough effort and resources to understand the thing they took over enough so that enough efforts and resources can be put in place to address the underlying issues


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:47 pm]

No, Taiwanese MRT does experience breakdowns and incidents, although it's generally considered to be a reliable and efficient system. While there may not be frequent major breakdowns, there are occasional incidents that can disrupt service, including some incidents during the initial testing and pre-service testing of the Mucha line (https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-vivo-rvo3&hl=en-SG&cs=0&sca_esv=41514daaec8f90aa&sxsrf=AE3TifNpV7UDEVZHktKPbIcBJFRfwiySjg%3A1749015995677&q=Mucha+line&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqqumoiNeNAxVD1jgGHc2mD1oQxccNegQIBBAB&mstk=AUtExfBbk8ZqdwjX-X_WPxWi50gMDFzzsTPWAjlRFqlbf59gw-t1XfxzR8cYet0rhadz45rqUaQyChaO-bzlI4CC6RUL8IalCkp6AhP4LzOjCl9nH5iXaRdrqKeKOGhNB6Max1xAz1NJc9o-DRwnjVPfYuoIlP9KykeKCrFJVatPBjR3gXV85FeHb3tEsDhunknMxhPKiQbGyJ_WzATF9xdaBrMnaKmhbRO4Wv8PP9qAHK0VXe2SpQ2VJvtDktXOdqLAMu-Mh3orgc6G-dinJsEDRg_P&csui=3). 

Here's a more detailed look:

Incidents During Testing:

The Mucha line, for example, faced several issues during pre-service testing, including cracks in beams, derailments, and railcar fires, which delayed its launch. 

Occasional Breakdowns:

Even after the initial launch, the MRT has experienced minor breakdowns, according to Taiwan Panorama. 

Safety and Reliability:

Despite these incidents, the city officials have assured riders that there have been no major safety incidents since operations resumed. 

Modernization and Maintenance:

The Taipei MRT system is continuously being modernized and upgraded, with improvements to infrastructure and maintenance practices to ensure safety and reliability. 

Overall Performance:

The Taipei MRT system is generally recognized as one of the best metro systems in Asia, known for its efficiency and reliability. 

Source:- Google AI.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:47 pm]

i have respect for the people of Japan.

they treat their work seriously and with positive attitude...but it can be very very stressful


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:48 pm]

I am trying to find a MRT system in the world that will never breakdown.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 1:49 pm]

unlikely. lets be realistic. breakdown is part of nature...

just how frequent or infrequent only


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:50 pm]

Prompt :- Which MRT system in the world will never breakdown?


No. MRT system in the world is truly designed to never breakdown, as all systems are subject to unforeseen circumstances and potential failures. However, Singapore's MRT system is known for its reliability and high standards, aiming for a target of 1 million train-km between breakdowns, according to The Straits Times (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-range-of-indicators-used-to-track-mrt-reliability&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj41fzniNeNAxVzoWMGHbW8HWIQjJEMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2qsOuw0xBRWnsSClGg2y8p). Despite this, disruptions do occur, as evidenced by incidents like the East-West Line disruption in September 2024. 

Elaboration:

No system is perfect:

While Singapore's MRT system strives for high reliability, it is not foolproof, and breakdowns can occur. 

Reliability indicators:

Singapore's MRT system uses metrics like "Mean Train-km Between Failure" (MTBF) to track reliability, aiming for a target of 1 million train-km. 

Examples of disruptions:

Recent disruptions, like the East-West Line incident, highlight that even highly reliable systems are not immune to failures. 

Continuous improvement:

Singapore's LTA (Land Transport Authority) and operators are continuously working to improve reliability and prevent disruptions. 

Building Singapore's Mass Rapid Transit: The World's Best?

13 Sept 2021 — singapore has constructed one of the world's. ... and serving an annual average of 1.2 billion people Singapore's mass rapid transit is one of the r... 

YouTube · 

Behind Asia

Source:- Google AI.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:51 pm]

https://youtu.be/5bNfz5yTI_A?feature=shared


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:55 pm]

In terms of density, most frequently used compare to the world MRT, Singapore MRT is considered the most well maintained and reliable in terms of breakdown vis-a-vis the world MRT.

No other MRT in the world are used so densely, thoroughly and so frequently in terms of density.

That's 1 million train-km is a record in the world.


Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 1:57 pm]

Let's be realistic, percentage of breakdown vs total num if trips of singapore trains is very low already. Ppl are getting too spoilt already. Pay for what you get. The low transport cost vs what we get is considered very good already

Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 1:57 pm]

Please take a look at new York's subway system then try complain about sg..


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 1:58 pm]

I was hoping I can find a country that run a MRT like a utopia, that never breakdown.

Hmmmm then we probably will not be living in the world of physic operating in not a mechanical, electrical world....


365, [4/6/2025 2:00 pm]

Why is it not the ones who initiated it didn't put in enough efforts to understand it as well? Being the ones doing they have be best visibility, also why proper handing over is so important. Especially such a large project, someone taking over can't possibly go and explore every nook and crany, and a system that has to keep on running with very little downtime available for them to perform maintenance.

365, [4/6/2025 2:06 pm]

People always bring up Japan and Taiwan, but do they have no breakdowns or is it just not reported internationally (because there is no reason to), and hence we don't hear of it?

Honestly, Singapore's mrt is probably within top 5, or at worst top 10.

365, [4/6/2025 2:06 pm]

Data shows Singapore MRT is more reliable than Hong Kong MTR

https://vulcanpost.com/872136/data-shows-singapore-mrt-more-reliable-hong-kong-mtr-for-several-years/

365, [4/6/2025 2:07 pm]

Comparison between Singapore MRT and hk MTR

365, [4/6/2025 2:08 pm]

The 2012 spat of incidents is so deeply entrenched in Singaporean minds that they can no longer fairly assess the number of breakdowns compared to the uptime.

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 2:08 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:09 pm]

anyone visited SMRT during the night? maybe they have done their part in maintenance while the rest of Singapore are sleeping at night..

imagine how tough it is to start maintenance after the last train, 0100hrs? 

then maintain any parts of the track before the morning operation starts

0500hrs

0100hrs to 0400hrs...how much or how little can be done within 3 hours?

i am slightly more generous, how about 6 hours of maintenance,

is it practical or is it demanding too much?

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:16 pm]

maintenance is an easy word to say.

lets say part of the track has problem need to be repair or replace.

is 3 hours really enough.

or smrt need to plan out a schedule ..certain stretch for the MRT track will be closed for maintenance.

for long term efficiency?

then Singaporeans should be prepared that for a week or 2 certain MRT station will be closed for maintenance as a norm.

365, [4/6/2025 2:19 pm]

https://deepnewz.com/japan/tohoku-shinkansen-coupling-failure-halts-services-cancels-111-trains-delays-166-f4ad4edf

https://evrimagaci.org/tpg/train-services-disrupted-in-tokyo-area-due-to-inspections-347219

Recent disruptions in Japan attributable to operator.

365, [4/6/2025 2:19 pm]

So really, before clamoring about how Japan have no disruptions and we should follow, maybe it's just that the news doesn't reach you.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:22 pm]

No, China's metro systems (https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-vivo-rvo3&hl=en-SG&cs=0&sca_esv=41514daaec8f90aa&sxsrf=AE3TifO2l3AJ5Rc5EJhEdc9c_RfUej2F2A%3A1749018097965&q=China%27s+metro+systems&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHw4iTkNeNAxUB2TgGHcCgLAMQxccNegQIAhAB&mstk=AUtExfCNQzXBsIxvNDIPnFXn3IJ5SESF7pXQHimLAQoiTjdUVnjxMy1oCyVP921H-S1QQTTYie0qlrRQyU2qbJ98LUMWo7NxHIDM6EVKg7HOvlK0Z9xvKfCPljN30Z3sIIZtHfvv6nUl69m8ntYZaCk7zzG9ShpPTEGc8MNyhB7CBx3_MMAEeTscnDdMRYimRAK_uXnHm9r1visKL-u7Y4x8OjUuixSCYg45Nnuk7sw6gKCbA_ipeuVZiQC6SmsXIFvf-BEcUUF_u3JSwg1hMgGA0t_D&csui=3) (including the MRT) are not immune to breakdowns. While China has a vast and complex network of high-speed and conventional rail, incidents of breakdowns occur, as they do with any large transportation system. 

Here's why:

Complexity:

China's extensive railway network, including the Chongqing Metro (https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-vivo-rvo3&hl=en-SG&cs=0&sca_esv=41514daaec8f90aa&sxsrf=AE3TifO2l3AJ5Rc5EJhEdc9c_RfUej2F2A%3A1749018097965&q=Chongqing+Metro&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHw4iTkNeNAxUB2TgGHcCgLAMQxccNegQIGBAB&mstk=AUtExfCNQzXBsIxvNDIPnFXn3IJ5SESF7pXQHimLAQoiTjdUVnjxMy1oCyVP921H-S1QQTTYie0qlrRQyU2qbJ98LUMWo7NxHIDM6EVKg7HOvlK0Z9xvKfCPljN30Z3sIIZtHfvv6nUl69m8ntYZaCk7zzG9ShpPTEGc8MNyhB7CBx3_MMAEeTscnDdMRYimRAK_uXnHm9r1visKL-u7Y4x8OjUuixSCYg45Nnuk7sw6gKCbA_ipeuVZiQC6SmsXIFvf-BEcUUF_u3JSwg1hMgGA0t_D&csui=3), Beijing Metro, and others, has a significant number of trains, tracks, and stations, increasing the potential for equipment failures. 

Operational Issues:

While China has a good safety record, breakdowns can still occur due to various reasons, such as issues with power supply, communication signals, or line equipment. 

Real-World Incidents:

Reports indicate that breakdowns have happened in China's metro systems, such as incidents in the Chongqing Metro and Beijing Metro, where passengers have been trapped. 

Source:- Google AI


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:23 pm]

I hoping to find miracle in China being the newest, very complex MRT system.

But no miracle.

Breakdown do occur.


RY, [4/6/2025 2:25 pm]

Any machine system will sure have breakdown, hence it is impt to have routine maintenance in order to minimise the chances of breakdown

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:25 pm]

the way to have close to miracle, is to have duplicate system.

while one is in operation then other is in maintenance.

and hope that both system will not break down together at the same time

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:26 pm]

eve if there is maintenance, break downs will still happen

RY, [4/6/2025 2:27 pm]

That is why maintenance is to minimise the chance of breakdown

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:28 pm]

i prefer maintenance and duplicated system..

but even so...break down will still occurred when both systems breakdown at the same time

365, [4/6/2025 2:28 pm]

In land-scarce Singapore, it is a luxury to do so. And even if we want to commit the resources, it'll cause a lot of disruptions, needing to inspect thr land, dig the ground, close up sections of roads, etc...

The closest we have right now, is bus routes running alongside the mrt stations, which historically has been provisioned for in cases of disruptions.

RY, [4/6/2025 2:30 pm]

SG MRT also quite complex, as SG expanding more and more lines from the initial Red/Green lines 

Further there are both old and new systems concurrently in operation - as per SMRT

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:30 pm]

i know...so a different why of maintenance must be planned.

for a certain number of days, the track between 2 stations will be closed for thorough inspection and maintenance.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:30 pm]

and Singaporean must treat this as the norm

365, [4/6/2025 2:32 pm]

Maybe this is the way to go, but has to be announced way ahead of time. Or alternatively, maybe not close for 2 days, but earlier closure time and later opening time which has been done before. The amount of disruption this causes is much lesser, but of course may not have the same efficacy as a full closure.

RY, [4/6/2025 2:32 pm]

So far fm my travelling experience, Japan Metro is the most complex 

Whereas Russia Metro is also one of oldest train system

G, [4/6/2025 2:32 pm]

Whoever is in control at the moment should bear the responsibility. They make the decisions so they bear the responsibilities. If they don't want this responsibility, then don't take the job.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:33 pm]

Duplicated lines are being built.

Hence if 1 route breakdown, take another route.

That's why Singapore MRT system is the world densest.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:34 pm]

really? why it doesn't seem to feel like there is one?

365, [4/6/2025 2:34 pm]

So the ones who went in prioritising short term gains and long term losses get to just toss the responsibility to the next one, sounds wonderful.

365, [4/6/2025 2:36 pm]

Is sort of parallel, but might be a bit far apart for Singaporean's expectations.

Parts of TEL and NSL, from Woodlands to cbd area. 

Parts of DTL and EWL, especially eastern side.

RY, [4/6/2025 2:36 pm]

Fm my understanding, Japan/Taiwan Metro are quite well maintain with the least breakdown incidents


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:36 pm]

Someone ask me who on earth can handle MRT system with no breakdown.

I told her, you can't find one on Earth.

You need to find some above our head - those that can fly and perform magical divine power that can do magic and ensure no mechanical and electrical parts won't breakdown.

Because any CEO will get fired every time something happens to the MRT.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:36 pm]

Compare to Singapore density, both countries are not close to us.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:38 pm]

Yes, not exactly parallel which Is too costly, but have more than 60 - 70% redundancy.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:38 pm]

I got a better suggestion.

Make MRT CEO like a roving chair.

Every year change 1 CEO.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:39 pm]

no leh...the breakdowns and disruption doesn't seems like the "redundancy" is there, nor it seems the redundancy is working to reduce disruption

RY, [4/6/2025 2:40 pm]

Who would like to take up such role and be fired later  ...  SG dont have Trump, wor 😬


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:40 pm]

Both my son and my close friend child take the red route or orange route to get to NUS and Buona Vista and bypass the green line.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:41 pm]

aiyo...this redundancy...? ok... acceptable for me.

not sure about others


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:42 pm]

If parallel route for every line - very expensive - more GST, more taxes.


Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:43 pm]

more maintenance also..

and Singapore does not has the land space


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 2:44 pm]

Yes


365, [4/6/2025 2:47 pm]

Regarding cost, we are definitely cheaper than Japan (my lived experience while on exchange program in Japan) while earning a higher median salary. I'm not sure we compare to Taiwan after accounting for PPP, but I reckon we should be pretty close.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:50 pm]

wait and pause.a moment.

we exchanged so many things.

did we address what the admin wanted?😅

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 2:53 pm]

1 break down 1 day of free commute. I think this will be better

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 2:56 pm]

7 day of break down 7 days of free commute on non breakdown days

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 2:57 pm]

cannot lah. SMRT Still has to pay fines from the government. and suffering losses during breakdown and free commute... should we will be buying bicycle and cycle to work. because SMRT goes bankrupt

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 2:59 pm]

Then no need fine. I think this is more painful

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 2:59 pm]

Commuters will be happy

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 3:00 pm]

Singaporean well known happy for free things.

singular ( me)

365, [4/6/2025 3:00 pm]

I've addressed it above, earlier on. Focusing on this particular incident, a better escalation path for the on ground workers to the management level is required, without fear of any repercussions.

The crux is on why the worker see that there's a system error, the falsely assume that it's a false warning. Is it he chose to not report it or there is currently no process in place for him to report it? If he chose not to report it despite there being an established process, is it because he fears repercussions or is it really an individual issue with work ethics and attitude?

Instead of trying to find just the root cause from an engineering perspective, also find the root cause on why it went undetected despite the system showing a warning.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 3:02 pm]

basically develope a governance culture of problem solving not finger pointing (blaming games)

365, [4/6/2025 3:02 pm]

Smrt is not the only operator, then you're punishing other operators for one's folly. Also not realistic to target just Smrt lines, ppl transfer and board lines from different operators with a single point of entry and a single point of exit.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 3:02 pm]

Then smart covers the cost

365, [4/6/2025 3:03 pm]

Yup, this is important, because top-down and bottom-up are both needed. Come together to resolve the problem.

365, [4/6/2025 3:03 pm]

Bottom-up has a clearer understanding of the issue, top-down has a wider view of the operations and can steer necessary changes.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 3:03 pm]

For such big breakdowns I think can do such Punishment

365, [4/6/2025 3:04 pm]

Essentially, a fine for smrt

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 3:05 pm]

that is why better to be self employed like driving taxi and learn to be profitable and making a livelihood from Trading.

Probelm solving culture is a rare oasis.

if you happen to be in that company, stay with it until retirement

Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 3:05 pm]

Aiya, i see others online keep saying punishment. What they want? Execute entire public transport team by firing squad ar? Then who do the job? Especially when nothing won't breakdown over time

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 3:06 pm]

Which goes back to the commuter which people will feel happy and no one complain

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 3:06 pm]

If not people don't feel the difference

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 3:06 pm]

talk is cheap...that is why Singapreans are world reknown complain kings and queens😅

365, [4/6/2025 3:07 pm]

Hopefully this gets taken back, MoT side not enough, corporate governance may need to involve MoM as well. And seeing how it's a public service, I think such a far reaching arm from the government, despite it technically being a private entity now, is justifiable.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 3:08 pm]

haha...are you sure Singapore agencies practicing problem solving cultures?

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 3:08 pm]

And smrt will feel the pain and reduce such breakdown

365, [4/6/2025 3:08 pm]

One can hope

365, [4/6/2025 3:11 pm]

Smrt ceo renumeration is 1.8mil for 2024, while the previous year is 2.3mil.

DTL averages 8 mil km per disruptions, the longest between all lines. Maybe we can peg their renumeration to the average km per disruption for lines under their operations, $1 to 4km

365, [4/6/2025 3:12 pm]

Again, it's a bit far reaching as smrt is technically a private entity, but being a public service warrants it.

RY, [4/6/2025 3:24 pm]

I concur too 

Why this staff choose not to bring up ? What is SMRT SOP  ?


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 3:37 pm]

1. Particularly, I noted in the REACH text that SMRT intending to use data analytics to examine the monitoring data collected - to pinpoint whether faults are likely to occur.


2. I applaud such move - as it will help to overcome human fatigue on overwhelming data prompted by monitoring tools - and likely to overlook warning signs.


3. Drawing from experience in IT monitoring system, every day, we will received hundreds of warning sign - orange and sometimes red icon pinpointing likely IT systems problem.

Such signs in technical terms , uses SNMP (Simple Network Management Protocol) MIB to indicate whether an IT system devices are working normally, malfunction, fails, shutdown or indication of break-in or unauthorised access.

Sadly, more than 80% to 90% of the time are either false negative or false positive.


4. Red signs will immediately look into because it indicate failure as SNMP will poll every say 10 minutes (depending on setting) - that the IT device or system is not responding.


5. More tricky one are the yellow warning icons - that the IT device or system could experience momentary stop or traffic congestion - but still flag as yellow warning sign - triggering a false negative or false positive even though it continue to function properly thereafter.


6. Hence over time, when human investigate (over hundred such yellow warning icons per day) - will soon grow fatigue especially when tests show that there are no problem to the devices and function normally except for the momentary stoppage or unresponsiveness at that moment in time due to congestion.

Humans will tend to ignore warning signs every day -- because there are so many everyday.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 3:46 pm]

7. Hence, employing AI data analytics - to pull all relevant data together - and do analysis, produce charts, graphs automatically everyday - and highlight likely problematic areas --- will be very helpful to help humans to do analysis, as it help to make realistic predictions and highlight problematic areas.


8. Because AI data analytics will take into account:-

a. Maintenance records

b. Age of the the IT devices

c. Occurence of warning sign flash by each IT devices

d. Likely problems highlight by the SNMP MIB data - that trigger the yellow warning sign.

e. Correlate to best practices, likely fault and troubleshooting guides draw from the Internet or manufacturer's recommendation and guidelines

f. Plus many other data draw from LLM (Large Language Model)


9. This AI data analytics will go a long way to tackle human fatigue and overwhelming yellow warning signs daily - due to false positive, false negative or true negative or true positive ---- and pinpoint likely problem - do maintenance and replacement before fault occurs.

I think this will make our MRT breakdown records go further down to as little  breakdown as possible if not zero (which is impossible to achieve in a mundane world).


365, [4/6/2025 3:47 pm]

I'm also in IT monitoring. We counteract this issue by properly fine tuning the rules to reduce such false positives. 

My experience was that we still do the proper triaging for them, at the same time using AI to further help us sieve out the false positives. Details are shown and arranged in an easy to understand format to speed up triaging.

We may attend to different cases with different levels of urgency due to their difference in pre-determined severity levels, but never just skimp past them and assume, although this used to be the culture until there's a change in management.

If the analysts are stilling experiencing alert fatigue, then perhaps more analysts could be hired.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 3:51 pm]

Yes.


REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 4:01 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

Khai Mun L., [4/6/2025 4:11 pm]

I'm still no onboard the AI trend. But it's a simple monitoring system, no AI required. 

But as someone brought up, we are restricted by maintenance time period. Especially when more mrt lines are built and extended, how to ensure every single piece is checked?

Suggest extending closing hours or announce scheduled downtimes during off peak periods

Monitoring would help to narrow down the component or area having fault, but still need a person to manually go down to verify and replace parts


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:12 pm]

Monitoring system and AI helps to predict and reduce problems.

But not 100% foolproof.


365, [4/6/2025 4:19 pm]

AI can help to find trends, patterns, anomalies, and format it nicely. Basically, it should be used as an enhancement to existing processes and not override the decision making and accountability of analysts / engineers.

The raw information available before implementation should still be available, it should just act like an assistant.

365, [4/6/2025 4:20 pm]

There's 2 sides of extreme now, one side that wants to replace everything with AI and another which fully rejects AI. Middle ground is to use AI to enhance efficiency, and not replace.


LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:26 pm]

Should view AI like a tool to help us.

Just like when computers are invented, we use computers as a tool to make our job more effective.

They are not meant to replace humans.


Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:33 pm]
I wonder why the overhaul stopped despite it is still in service

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:34 pm]
Covid.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:34 pm]
Circuit breaker only last for a few months

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:35 pm]
Now most MRT trains in green line are new.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:35 pm]
I thought industry practice is at least once per year
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:35 pm]
Till it retired

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:36 pm]
Covid last 4 years.
Supply lines disrupted.
No parts.
Manufacturers cannot produce new trains - that is why delay.

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:36 pm]
The train very expensive.
Last 30 years at least

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:37 pm]
Cause I know in industry pm servicing is done once per year

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:37 pm]
Eg. We cannot replace our car every year.
We service it every year.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:37 pm]
Change oil and grease etc
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:38 pm]
There should be checks on vehicles right
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:39 pm]
Last overhaul in 2018
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:42 pm]
At least this is the practice in army tanks lah
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:43 pm]
If cmi vehicle should be down
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:44 pm]
Just like you need to go to inspect your car for 3 years

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:46 pm]
Army tanks have lesser parts.
And it is maintained according to prescribed maintenance schedule according to manufacturer guidelines.
But during exercise, some will also breakdown.
Eg. Run track - track derailed.
Turret sometimes stuck, cannot swing.
Periscope prism sometimes not working properly, got to drive open hatch.
Comm system sometimes not working properly.
Fire machine gun, IA bullets got stuck.
Armour vehicle, sometimes ramp stuck cannot ramp down.
AI troops got to emerge from the hatch and jump down the vehicle.

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:46 pm]
Yes but there should have a manual for trains which is use more frequently
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:47 pm]
Armour vehicles cannot be helped mah. NSF you don't expect them to be professional

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:48 pm]
Nothing in the mundane world work perfectly without failure.
Probably heaven or paradise do?

Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:50 pm]
But I raised a question why it is not over haul since 2018? Don't they have a schedule for overhauling before this incident
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:50 pm]
This is not answering the question

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:50 pm]
2019 covid for 4 years.

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 4:51 pm]
Cannot be overhaul means hundred train take out and replace like Lego.
Got to do it one by one.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 4:52 pm]
i have just read the article.
It seems that the train that broken-down was overdued for overhaul.
SMRT seems to have their maintenance plan and system in place..then it is human error or human miscalculated judgement call to allow a train that overdue for overhaul to be in service. 
I guess they wanted to reduce cost or somethings.  Shouldn't they be more strict on execution of their maintenance plan and system.
exceeded the 500,000km mileage.. then stop the train and use other trains that has finished overhaul or something.
there is a reason for the first generation of engineers and management come out with the SOP on 500,000 km mileage maintenance guide.
Then stick to it strictly. The why 500,000 km knowledge and understanding is lost when the first generation of engineers and management replaced by others either due to cost, retirement or others.
unless the current engineer understand WHY 500,000km was set...and there still room for safe service...if not stick to the maintenance guide and use a new train or overhauled train for the service and operation.
.........
didn't we learn from other's mistakes?
there was an incident on commercial airplane service...the maintenance crew out of convenience used an easy method of putting back the engines or something...which resulted in the engine not properly secured back on place..and resulted in the commerical plan crashed and passengers onboard died.
I remember i heard it on the new, cna news, or something..it was at least a decade ago as I have not watch television programmes for a long time.
..........
when it comes to safety.....do not go for the short cut or trying to be penny wise and pound stupid.
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:53 pm]
Thanks for answering
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 4:54 pm]
This type of money cannot save de
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 4:56 pm]
we are not in the team... maybe they have done all that has to be done...
and still no train available to replaced the overdued for overhaul train or something
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 4:56 pm]
it is not mentioned in the articles...so we can only guess
365, [4/6/2025 5:04 pm]
Not sure if there are such laws in place, but maybe there should be heavy punishments (maybe jail term) for decisions made that compromise national security, including decisions made by private sector but can still (adversely) affect the public, and in turn national security.
To be fair to everyone, there has to be proper assessment of who was the decision maker. It can be an on ground worker deliberately not reporting the issue, or it can be management who decides to ignore it.
I have seen how rot begins from the top, and have also seen ground workers being lazy, both scenarios are possible.
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 5:09 pm]
500,000km is the overhual guide...and the incident train is at 600,000km mileage. is it acceptable? what was the reason for that judgement call to allow the train to be in service when it exceeded 20% of its overhaul mileage?
..........
365, [4/6/2025 5:16 pm]
Yeah, someone has to make a judgment call, it can be a worker who has the first line of visibility not reporting the issue, or a manager who knows of it and still ignore it.
If there's a deviation, and for some reasons they decide it is acceptable, or to the interest of the public, to continue running, then a report should be sent to lta for accountability and traceability purposes and to justify their actions.
They should establish a turnaround time with lta to approve such deviations as well, then lta holds the final call to approve deviations.
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 5:27 pm]
not sure about SMRT governance.
after daily operations, the mileage shoud be recorded into the system, so that its information is make available for the maintenance management team and HQ management.
maintenance management and HQ management will likely ask why a particular train exceeded the mileage and still in service or something.
......
cannot be that the data only stops at the maintenance management.
the whole company management, regardless of department, should have access to such data and information and able to ask questions.
This is why CEO of companies are paid with high salaries.
365, [4/6/2025 5:34 pm]
Probably reviewed by middle management. So decision can be by them, or still can be worker under report for whatever reason.
REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 6:03 pm]
📢 Topic 📢
G, [4/6/2025 6:07 pm]
Isn't that how most of this world works? CEOs being rewarded lavishly for bringing in high earnings for shareholders

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:22 pm]
1. Maybe to summarise what needs to be done to ensure the reliability of our public transport system notably the MRT that is responsible to commute a large passengers load on a daily basis at a short frequency run - in which Singaporeans largely depends on:-

a. I will like the MRT to be 100% no downtime - to run efficiently as faultless as possible - for it is a nightmare for the MRT system to breakdown - causing great inconvenience to the public to work, study, play and travel.

b. But pragmatically and realistically, I know professionally and technically, 100% no breakdown is a miracle - as no system, no matter how perfectly build and maintain will have zero defects, zero failure. 

c. So what should be the mitigating factors - to emulate a near 100% no failure rate - so that public will ensure they are able to travel daily to their destination without any hiccups and inconvenience?

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [4/6/2025 6:25 pm]
To add: crisis management skills of SMRT/SBS need to be brushed up on as well. Like immediately updating there is a breakdown. Some times it comes too late. Crisis management every minute counts. Commuters also deserved to be compensated for the breakdown. Example: all fares waived for that trip/no $2 penalty for staying in the MRT for >2 hours. SMRT and the ministry at large did not touch on all this till this day.

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:28 pm]
d. Designing and building redundant lines that connect the whole Country like a "spider web" to ensure as many stations is reachable by at least 2 lines --- will be the best assurance of 100% no failure rate.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 6:32 pm]
reading it again 
it sounds reasonable that SMRT is fined for the human error and miscalculated judgment call.
...........
high temperature monitored, and other factors, the abnormalities was not taken seriously.
overdued overhaul mileage guide exceeded..
one of my trainer officer once said to the platoon. nothing happens doesn't mean we have done the right things. it only mean we are lucky nothing happens..
SMRT Trains president Lam Sheau Kai said that the overhaul regime has served well over last 38 years.
doesn't it shows they have been lucky for the last 38 years? abnormalities happen at temperature monitoring. because of other factors treated as false alarm?
is it because false alarms happens alot that's why it is not taken seriously?
if false alarm happens alot then find out what cause the false alarm.. cannot let the attitude of just let it.
the first generation of train is from khi.. Japanese company. Japanese in that era are well known for their quality and attitude in their work. thus 500,000km means as that. The workers treated every details seriously. 
it is human negligence, from the ground up to the top.  simple as that.

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:36 pm]
e. Having say so, rigorous proactive monitoring, management, maintenance regime should be put in place to ensure that :-

i. Every warning indicators should be study and look into (with the help of AI data analytics) and a professional / technical team of experts to look into it on a daily basis - and physical checks to be conducted - whether in samples, 100% check (for critical parts that will bring failure) etc.

ii. Sticking to strict maintenance schedule as prescribed by manufacturers.

iii. When overhaul is due, strictly comply and any deviation should be flag by maintenance team. QC team, Management team all the way to LTA and MOT - to determine if any lapse - what will be the remedial actions.

iv. Replacement of MRT trains and expensive parts - could come sooner than prescribed if warning indicators indicate that system reliability is call into question.

v. The Government will have to communicate to the public - that everything come with cost - $ and cents.
To have a good reliable, almost faultless system - will come with a price --- and it means spendings and tax cannot be lowered.
Hence there must be a proper balance.

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:40 pm]
vi. Having say so, I noticed that the SMRT recent outfit from lower level to the top management --- are staff with very technical, maintenance, operational outfit.
The chairman of SMRT is an ex-ST Engineering -- very technically capable, respected and on the ball management - that oversee planes, marine, rail, cars, electronic system and sophisticated defence systems - overseeing the maintenance, operations of the very large extensive complex MRT systems with many parts.
Also the team of SMRT staff are very engineering, operational and maintenance focus.
A very good start.

RY, [4/6/2025 6:45 pm]
LCL - 👍 in analysis always 👍

REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 6:45 pm]
Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:46 pm]
vii. Note that MRT system is not  just only mechanical, electronic and electrical.
It is also make up of very sophisticated signaling system, IT system - to ensure MRT trains operate in precision - that can run and stop within minutes of one another without failing, without collison, collision avoidance, alignment to MRT auto door opening and shuting etc.
Thales provided the signaling system (a French defence conglomerate - that produce air defense, missile signaling system, submarine, C4 command, control, communication and computer system, satellite etc)

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:51 pm]
Of course ST Engineering also have similar capabilities.

Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 6:53 pm]
capabilities yes....
it is the attitude that makes the difference.
........
RY, [4/6/2025 6:55 pm]
To conclude, I am glad that investigation was done and info released to the public 
And SMRT is taking responsibility for the mistakes/incident - that is gd accountability 
SMRT CEO has to be with engineering background, in order to understand and solve the technical issues and its operation 
As always said, no system is perfect. It is okay to make mistakes, but have to learn from mistake, and take nec actions to rectify, so as to avoid the same mistake again, ya

LCL (Danny 心), [4/6/2025 6:55 pm]
Many domestically make weapons systems are manufactured by ST Engineering that are of high quality.
Some exported platforms are battle hardend, prove to be reliable and highly praise by foreign military eg. British military.
That even mine and led that blown beneath the armour vehicle cannot damage it and continue to function and save the British troops in the armour vehicle.
And climb up the mountain and appear right in front of the ambush team.

RY, [4/6/2025 6:57 pm]
Thanks Reach Team and Gd Evening Participants 🙏
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 6:58 pm]
This makes me think of reducing population so when mrt break down it wouldn't affect so badly
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 6:58 pm]
weapons ..yes..but it's unlikely things like train system...that undergoes high intensity usage., etc.
Joomua Tng, [4/6/2025 6:58 pm]
then make more babies.😅
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 6:59 pm]
I agree and allow small faults to happens but big faults that last more than a day is unacceptable
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 6:59 pm]
For such a huge population
REACH Singapore, [4/6/2025 6:59 pm]
Dear Contributors
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
Jun Ming, [4/6/2025 7:00 pm]
So I hope smrt have a review their sop and do what is necessary

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