REACH (Telegram) 86 - What are your views about the efforts to address vaping? What more can be done to address this?

(SK)

14 Jul 2025 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 9:45 am]

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REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 10:02 am]

📢 Topic 📢

On July 13 (Sunday), the Ministry of Health (MOH) and Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) announced that Government agencies are considering further steps to address the vaping issue, including whether current laws for enforcement can be enhanced.

This move comes in light of an increasing trend of e-vaporisers containing psychotropic substances such as etomidate and controlled drugs overseas and now in Singapore.

💬 What are your views about the efforts to address vaping? What more can be done to address this?

📌 Growing trend of vaping

In response to queries, MOH and MHA noted that the Health Sciences Authority (HSA) had already detected 28 cases where e-vaporiser pods were found to contain etomidate within the first half of 2025. This is nearly three times as many as the 10 cases detected in 2024. This is despite vaping being banned in Singapore since 2018.

Between January 2024 and March 2025, HSA, which is the enforcement agency for vaping-related offences, seized more than $41 million worth of e-vaporisers and their related components.

📌 Harms of vaping

MHA and MOH noted that etomidate, which is classified as a poison and regulated under the Poisons Act, has clinical use as an anaesthetic agent. It is permitted only in clinical settings and subject to strict conditions.

“The etomidate found in e-vaporisers or supplied in oil capsules or formulations to be inhaled directly into users’ lungs are not medical products and are prohibited,” the ministries said.

The ministries said the adverse effects of etomidate when used in vapes can be serious, including causing involuntary movements or spasm of muscles, confusion, seizures and psychosis.

“It can lead to physical dependence,” they added.

📌 Need for enhanced enforcement and legislation

The ministries said various agencies have been conducting rigorous enforcement to tackle the issue.

“For example, the HSA works closely with agencies such as the Singapore Police Force, Central Narcotics Bureau, Immigration and Checkpoints Authority (ICA), National Parks Board and National Environment Agency (NEA), to enforce against e-vaporisers.

Mr Yip Hon Weng, MP for Yio Chu Kang SMC, also agreed that enforcement laws need to be enhanced. While he noted that Singapore already has some of the world’s toughest drug laws, he added, "There is perhaps scope to go further – for example, by explicitly including combo drug-vape products under the Poisons Act, and granting the Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB) clearer jurisdiction the moment drug traces are detected”.

There have been similar legal updates in the past, Mr Yip said, adding that when Subutex and glue sniffing became threats, the law evolved to empower CNB with the tools to respond.

📌 Need for greater awareness about vaping

MOH and MHA also highlighted the need for greater awareness about vaping.

*The Health Promotion Board is also working with the Ministry of Education to raise awareness about the harms of vaping amongst students, and support individuals seeking to stop the habit of vaping through the I Quit Programme,” the ministries said.

Under current laws in Singapore, possessing, using and buying e-vaporisers carry a maximum fine of $2,000.

Distributing, importing and selling prohibited tobacco products such as vapes and their components carry a heavier penalty – a fine of up to $10,000, or imprisonment of up to six months, or both.

👉🏻  https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/laws-around-vaping-may-be-enhanced-with-increased-detection-of-drug-laced-vapes-in-spore

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/experts-call-for-legal-agility-to-tackle-influx-of-drug-laced-vapes-in-singapore

👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/today/big-read/kpods-drugs-vapes-legal-grey-areas-5230556

----

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [14/7/2025 10:28 am]

Better late than never. Vaping is banned in Singapore yet a growing portion of people are using it... then not caught also. It is a net negative on society if they're not caught.

365, [14/7/2025 10:43 am]

Awareness is not the way forward, many are already aware of the consequences on their body, they simply don't care.

I feel it is important to have a plan to start enforcing stricter punishment on the imports of vapes. The end goal is to treat it similar to drugs, whereby import itself is illegal and enforce heavy punishment. There is a need to improve detection of the imports of vape, similar to detection of the import of drugs. 

My plan:

- Establish a method to reliably detect vape imports, this is the most important step. 

- Announce the ban on vape imports, including the plans and different phases moving forward. Similar to drugs, all airlines have to notify their passengers on the ban. Give a brief transitional period of maybe 3 months. Within this transitional period, vapes detected will be confiscated and let off with a warning. Repeated offenders within the 3 months will receive escalating punishment including fines and possibly jail time. Singapore residents are allowed to surrender their vapes with no penalty, and pay back a minor sum to encourage more voluntary surrender during this period as well. Non-residents are allowed to surrender their vapes at the border control with no penalty and no payout. 

- Next 3 months, start fines for illegal imports of vapes. Escalating penalties for repeat offenders remain the same, with no reset from prior phases. Continue to allow residents to surrender vapes with no penalty, but no more payout. Penalties (fines) will be enforced when surrendering or caught with vape at the border control. 

- Start enforcing jail terms for illegal imports. If the government thinks death penalty is warranted, then we can move to that step here or have another 3 months period. Vapes are completely banned.

The time for transitional periods will vary depending on government assessment of what is the best to move forward with, taking into account the overall impact.

Jerard, [14/7/2025 10:55 am]

I would say vaping is a common problem these days especially when it comes to youths also

Jerard, [14/7/2025 10:56 am]

Youths generally have a sense of curiosity and have many free beliefs

Daniel, [14/7/2025 11:00 am]

I feel that enforcement on the ground is still quite lax. It is very common to see people (young ones, but also older people) using vapes in public. Especially at void decks, but also at bus stops and other public places.

Nicholas, [14/7/2025 11:06 am]

Good that there's the articles recently informing us about the risks and harms. Youths are easily taken in by "cool" things and especially so when they travel to neighbouring countries and see people freely vaping there. Please enhance the laws to come down hard on the distributors (similar to drug peddlers) and rehabilitate those already vaping (similar to drug users).

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 11:21 am]

1. I feel that associating vaping lace with banned drugs abuse should come under CNB drug abuse similar to heroin, cannabis, ketamine etc with stronger punishment.

2. Then it will have more bite to curb distribution and prosecution.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 11:24 am]

3. The current vaping law though tough is not as tough as drug abuses.

4. Vaping lace with banned drugs are essentially drug abuses coming under narcotics law and not vaping law - except the tools used for drug abuses is vaping.

Because the harm cause by vaping lace with drugs - suffer the same or worst addiction like narcotics drugs.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 11:28 am]

5. Only when the reclassification of vaping lace with drugs are categorised under drug abuses - will make those who want to play with vaping sit up and understand its consequences.

6. Authority should also co-ordinate with neighbouring countries to reclassify vaping lace with drugs as drug abuses and not "innocent vaping".

Only then authorities around the region will have more bites and urgency to clampdown on drug laced vaping.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 11:34 am]

7. Because innocent vaping are nicotine lace - and classified as smoking - in which foreign authorities are not interested in enforcement.

8. But drug laced vaping with banned drugs are essentially narcotics drugs abuse - in which narcotics drugs are considered illegal in many countries that come with imprisonment and even death penalty.

Hence this will ensure suppliers of vaping watch their steps in supplying drug laced vaping - as drug trafficking.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 11:41 am]

1. Once I saw 2 young girls walk past me, and a big smoke emerge from their mouth and I notice they hold something on their hand.

2. I was wondering what cigarette can produce such big cloud of smoke.

3. Then I realise they are vaping.

4. When they see me staring at them, they double up speed and walk past me.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:02 pm]

9. However I feel that if parents or abusers turn themselves in or willing to rehabilitate, punishment should be more lenient - to encourage people to rehabilitate.

Such as no imprisonment but must accept rehabilitation and monitoring.

10. If the penalties are too severe, parents and abusers will dodge rather than submit themselves for rehabilitation.

11. But if they are arrested by authorities, then they should be treated like other drug abusers.

12. Drug laced vaping traffickers should be treated like traditional drug traffickers.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:14 pm]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSBqn71JE/

Drug laced vaping very serious consequences to our teenagers.

They waste their young lives away.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:16 pm]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSBqnbMhf/

27 year old Singaporean attack mother and threaten suicide after kpod vapes.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:20 pm]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSBqWSSrb/

Zombie teens in Punggol after vaping in drug laced vape.

여자친구, 첫사랑 🏆, [14/7/2025 12:20 pm]

Vaping in any form and any type has to be educated and treated as to be as serious of a health threat as smoking.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:48 pm]

[13/07, 2:16 pm] ☸️  Danny 心: Singapore US treasury bonds reduce from US $260 to $179 billions.

Source:- Google 

Quietly sold away.

[13/07, 2:17 pm] ☸️  Danny 心: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSB4Yr9tj/

Canada, China, Singapore and other countries quietly sold off $46.8 billion US treasury bonds in just one month.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 12:57 pm]

心法:

D1T2 Economic Circulation strategy.

1. Domestic Economic Circulation (D1) Strategy.

2. International Economic Dual Trade Circulation (T2) Strategy.

a. Non-US currency swap trade

b. US currency exchange trade.

Domestic Economic Circulation Strategy (D1) 

1. CDC and SG 60 vouchers domestic consumption 

2. Tourism

3. Retail

4. F&B

International Economic Dual Trade Circulation (T2) Strategy 

1. Trade in bilateral currency swap with non-US countries.

2. Trade in US $.

This will make our economy resilience against Trump's tariff.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:06 pm]

Vaping are more of targeting the youths ah. During my bmt my whole bunk vape secretly

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:07 pm]

And they will influence those who doesn't vape

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:07 pm]

Army should clampdown on vaping in NS.

Cannot let vaping harm our young folks.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:08 pm]

So I think gov should start enforcing through ns

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:09 pm]

And wonder where did they get the vaping from?

I thought banned in Singapore.

Online store also not allow to sell?

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:09 pm]

Giving talks monthly like how safety talks are conducted

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:09 pm]

Telegram

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:10 pm]

Weekend go home take their delivery

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:10 pm]

Usually cash on delivery

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:10 pm]

Even Sgt vape...

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:11 pm]

MHA should tapped into this telegram and do enforcement on suppliers as well as members of these telegram groups.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:11 pm]

Hard as telegram have the highest level of security

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:11 pm]

It is harming our youth.

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:11 pm]

Can break with spyware.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:12 pm]

They will never leak anything to authority

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:12 pm]

This is why the CEO was arrested in Spain in earlier of the year

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:13 pm]

Pegasus can break.

Most telegram groups don't activate "secret chat" that come with end to end encryption.

I think this telegram group also not in "secret chat". Because it will come with a "lock icon" and highlight in "green" with self destruct timer in "secret chat". The encryption key will also generate a combination of image and text key.

Evidently, these chat group is not.

So unless those army boys use such features in their telegram groups which I doubt they do, Pegasus breaking into the telegram chat groups should be chicken feat.

Hence Pegasus can break.

Even though if secret chat is turn on, Pegasus can still infiltrate via workaround.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:14 pm]

Usually vapes enter through land border which are hidden in cars and walk through customs

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:15 pm]

As land custom are the busiest it is easier to get away

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 1:16 pm]

These smuggling harder to detect.

Got to use thermal imaging, x-ray etc and more granular inspection.

But large traveller crowd will put a strain on immigration officials.

Some may still slip through.

Hence heavier penalties if caught should serve as a deterrence.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:16 pm]

And in our neighbouring country vape is legal

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:17 pm]

Unless neighbouring country vape is illegal then it will have lesser vapes

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:22 pm]

So therefore cooperating and sharing information to our neighbouring country is important. For eg we can suggest to our neighbouring country to force manufacturers make vape to in certain shapes

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:23 pm]

So there will not have funny vape like highlighter etc

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:26 pm]

Vape is like opium can try to ban but a lot of challenges

RY, [14/7/2025 1:27 pm]

I notice many cigarette smokers "convert" to reusable vaping from my circle of male friends, bec cigarette is so ex in SG nowsday  

It is very difficult for smokers to quit smoking, and so far I notice not many success case around me, due to "addiction" just like gambling 

Many smokers may think that vaping maybe less detrimental to health vs tobacco, however we know it is not true to certain extend 

Creating public education and awareness is essential, and maybe it should extend to schools also, since many smokers start from young/teenage 

As vaping has many flavours to choose from and it is very 'cool' to youngsters

It is certainly a good initiative for the SG different Ministries to work together to tackle vaping issues 

One-time use vaping is also causing many environmental problems, and hence UK recently also added to the list of vaping-ban/restricted countries

I reckon so far not many countries are successful in banning smoking, except Bhutan, I think 

As any human addiction is hard to quit, unless with very strong-will/mindset

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:41 pm]

Should change to 10 years for distributing and selling

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 1:45 pm]

Why people turn to vape instead of smoking 

1.) cheaper 

2.) look nicer no ugly picture 

3.) taste nicer 

4.) looks cool got dragon breath effect 

Authorities need to be creative to deal with this factors

Joomua Tng, [14/7/2025 1:51 pm]

it should classified aa drugs abuses.

draw a tough and bold line and classify it as drugs. penalty as drugs trafficking and abuses.

try to accommodate it with more lenient classification will cause more problems.

.......

the drugs trafficking mafia will treat it as new form of drug trafficking channel if we do not take a hardline and bold stand against it.

please don't wait till more lives are destroyed then take tougher action.

by then it will has taken roots in Singapore society.

extinguish the fire before it grow bigger and spread out of control.

其安易持，其未兆易谋。其脆易泮，其微易散。为之于未有，治之于未乱。

......

it is because gov treating it as "smoking" didn't foresee it could be a channel for a new form of drugs trafficking, the drugs mafia exploited it to expansion of their drugs businesses.

Adam, [14/7/2025 1:55 pm]

Yeah drugs is bad. It kills. Just like drink driving, we should fine them up to 10k and jail for up to a year

Adam, [14/7/2025 1:56 pm]

Not sure if you think its worse or better than drink driving. Since drink driving will hurt others and not just the self

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 2:00 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:00 pm]

I think the main thing is distributing and importing punishment is too light

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 2:01 pm]

Eg. Our government break into telegram chat group "SG Nasi Lemak" that distribute porno and illegal photos of local girls" with 44,000 members in the telegram chatgroup and prosecute members.

Likewise, this vaping should also warrant such attention.

Hanny, [14/7/2025 2:02 pm]

Harsher law is required for vape because it is more dangerous than cigarettes.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:04 pm]

Nasi lemak is there's real victims. But vape there's willing sellers willing buyer. Everyone covering for each other

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 2:05 pm]

If can break into the chatgroup to collect evidence of the chats and transactions - can make arrest and prosecution.

This will deter vaping.

365, [14/7/2025 2:19 pm]

Willing seller willing buyer cannot be a reason for lack of jurisdiction, if not the same argument can be made for drugs

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:20 pm]

Yeah but everyone covering up and it's hard to get into vaping groups

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:20 pm]

You need to know the specific group first

Jerard, [14/7/2025 2:20 pm]

only those who vape know such telegram groups

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:23 pm]

I wondering if police are secretly vaping or not

365, [14/7/2025 2:23 pm]

Maybe can use the sergeants in military as a breakthrough point? Easier to catch their vapes, especially since I believe military can do spot checks.

Then in return for lenient punishment, dig out the channels.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:23 pm]

As I said sgt also vape

365, [14/7/2025 2:23 pm]

Personally I still believe physical means of detection is the first line of long term defense, then layer in with more mechanisms.

365, [14/7/2025 2:24 pm]

Yeah, that's why I'm suggesting if we can use those sergeants as a breakthrough point into the chats

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:24 pm]

So we are relying on people to report others for vaping?

365, [14/7/2025 2:24 pm]

Vape is supposedly illegal in Singapore anyway, the lack of enforcement is an issue.

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:24 pm]

Say, if your friend, or coworker vapes, will you report them?

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:24 pm]

Unless do SBU on sgt bunks

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:25 pm]

Do you believe if you report your friend, it is for their own good

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:25 pm]

After all, we have to rehabilitate them for vaping

365, [14/7/2025 2:25 pm]

Don't need them to come out report, catch their vapes with spot checks, offer lenient punishment in return for more leads

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:25 pm]

Mind you im not talking about the laced vape, just normal

Jerard, [14/7/2025 2:25 pm]

the k pods vape you mean?

Adam, [14/7/2025 2:26 pm]

Cant let them vape, must report so they go back to cigs

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:26 pm]

I would not report. As it harm the relationship

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:26 pm]

And may tekan you

Jerard, [14/7/2025 2:26 pm]

I would report, its for the greater good whatever the consequences

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:27 pm]

Let say in army you report your bunk mates and got stand by universe. Up from encik down to your bunk mates will hate you

365, [14/7/2025 2:27 pm]

I think there is little value in catching individual vapers now. The importing has to stop, then you can weed it out over time.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:28 pm]

And you got a miserable 2 years not worth it

365, [14/7/2025 2:28 pm]

Ministry collaborate from the top, colonel pass down instructions immediate random spot check.

365, [14/7/2025 2:29 pm]

Bottom up approach will not work, has to be top down.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:30 pm]

Chain of command lol

365, [14/7/2025 2:30 pm]

Operation plan to be silent and only made known to "safe" individuals who won't leak, then one swoop go in and check.

365, [14/7/2025 2:31 pm]

Even this feels like scratching the surface only, if the government is serious on it, they have to take a hard stance. Political backlash will be expected and is something to be accepted if we really want to put a stop to it and not just score political points.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:41 pm]

I think we need to treat it as complex law where user gets charge where analysis of vape content is done. If there's drugs charge them with consuming drug. If not then normal procession of vape.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:42 pm]

If not the fine is just punishing the parents

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:42 pm]

Which where got time to juggar kids

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:43 pm]

Everybody 早出晚归

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:43 pm]

Just don't treat it as simple fine can liao

365, [14/7/2025 2:45 pm]

It's gonna take a lot of resources just to do analysis because we want to be more lenient on those who vape without using drug content. I think the eventual stance should reach somewhere similar to drugs, but not to that extent yet.

Reason being is that vape currently doesn't harm similarly to how drug addict is, at least not from what I've heard, entire families being destroyed due to vape. It's more of the 2nd hand vape that is also harming others.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:46 pm]

I think there's a recent news that someone died with the use of drug vape

Jerard, [14/7/2025 2:47 pm]

the k pod vape if i remember correctly

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 2:47 pm]

Then can charge those trafficking guys with death penalty

Steven Ong, [14/7/2025 3:27 pm]

There's urgency to consider even tougher measures to ensure our younger generation not hook on these 'fashionable' habits. IMO, fines don't work well. Best is to instill longer sentences and as a nation, everyone becomes a whistle-blower to help everyone to rid this horrible matter before get out of control..

Daniel, [14/7/2025 3:35 pm]

Or could link it with a generational tobacco phase-out like the one proposed in New Zealand, then our youth can be protected from both of those.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 3:35 pm]

This one I propose to reach in 2017 they fan it off citing there's enough measures...

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 3:36 pm]

🥱

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 3:41 pm]

Maybe they don't see a sec 5 student feedback weigh

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 3:53 pm]

Don't believe me go refer NEA-2017-10-016810

Daniel, [14/7/2025 3:54 pm]

Well, can raise it again here, still think it's a viable solution.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 3:59 pm]

Dear NEA please review this suggestion thank you

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 4:01 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 4:27 pm]

In NS, parents expect their children to perform their national duties in a safe environment and not pick up bad habits that harm them.

Eg. Not picking up:-

1. Vaping

2. Smoking 

3. Gambling

4. Speaking vulgar language 

Hence, army should take a good look at vaping habits during NS and should take tough actions to prevent NS men from pickup vaping habits during their army time.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:31 pm]

5.) sexual activities

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 4:32 pm]

Army got no woman.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:32 pm]

Full of boys puberty just ended. Sexual desire the max

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:33 pm]

Talking about sexual stuff everyday

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 4:34 pm]

This one is self discipline.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:34 pm]

Army need to include sexual education to guide sexual desire

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:35 pm]

Self discipline is so weak against our desires

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:35 pm]

Especially sex

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 4:35 pm]

Cause during the age by right it's time to be a parent

G, [14/7/2025 4:44 pm]

Why not go the way of dealing with narcotics and call it a day?

G, [14/7/2025 4:48 pm]

If really serious about the harmful effects, why still deliberate here and there? How is this different from narcotics? 

How come MOH is in the loop for this? Since vaping has been banned, shouldn't the lead for this be MHA?

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 5:35 pm]

"Kpods being pushed by organised crime groups, including in Singapore, say the UN"

 https://sg.news.yahoo.com/live/kpods-pushed-by-organised-crime-groups-un-jannik-sinner-is-first-italian-to-win-wimbledon-singles-singapore-live-news-020830343.html#:~:text=Esther%20Au%20Yong-,Kpods%20being%20pushed%20by%20organised%20crime%20groups%2C%20including%20in%20Singapore%2C%20say%20the%20UN,-Kpods%20being%20pushed

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 5:38 pm]

"I lost my daughter to Kpod addiction: Father of 19-year-old shares heartbreak and lessons"

 https://sg.news.yahoo.com/lost-daughter-kpod-addiction-father-210000601.html#:~:text=at%20any%20time-,I%20lost%20my%20daughter%20to%20Kpod%20addiction%3A%20Father%20of%2019%2Dyear%2Dold%20shares%20heartbreak%20and%20lessons,-Zaihan%20Mohamed%20Yusof

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 5:39 pm]

Photos of a Kpod victim trying to jump out of the window - and his mother pulling him back.

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 5:50 pm]

So this is my suggestion

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 5:51 pm]

I think they now treating it like mosquito breeding case

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 6:00 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

G, [14/7/2025 6:06 pm]

Just treat vaping like narcotics. Zero tolerance 

Arrest users, jail them, rehabilitate them in jail where applicable, hang where applicable (depending on vape canister contents)

Arrest suppliers, jail them, rehabilitate them in jail where applicable, hang where applicable (depending on vape substance / paraphernalia quantities)

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 6:17 pm]

2 suspected Kpod peddlers in their 20s were nabbed in Bishan and Yishun as HSA intensifies a crackdown on vapes.

In one operation, an enforcement officer dived into a moving car to stop the suspect from escaping. https://str.sg/MGQi

G, [14/7/2025 6:17 pm]

Shouldn't this kind of enforcement come under MHA?

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 6:18 pm]

Should be cnb isn't it

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 6:20 pm]

HSA should be the one supporting with evidence and technology

G, [14/7/2025 6:21 pm]

Yup yup. CNB is under MHA

Jun Ming, [14/7/2025 6:21 pm]

In terms of catching people cnb got more experience

LCL (Danny 心), [14/7/2025 6:24 pm]

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSBbadAoy/

Effects of Kpod vaping.

Effects more serious than drug abuse.

Andrew Goh, [14/7/2025 6:41 pm]

Govt can make it easier for the public to report when they see others vaping.

Just saw 3 youths vaping at a void deck.

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 6:45 pm]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [14/7/2025 7:00 pm]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====

REACH (Telegram) 85 -  What are your views on SERT’s latest measure to support local businesses? How can we continue to support local businesses and workers amidst this uncertain environment?

(SK)

10 Jul 2025 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 3:14 pm]

Dear Contributors,

Welcome Back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 3.15pm to 8pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited. 

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment. 

4. No need to repeat your comment or in differnet forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time. 

5. Let's protect each other's privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://www.reach.gov.sg/Participate/reach-telegram-group/REACH-Telegram-Group-Chat-Terms-of-Use/

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. 

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies. 

The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 3:17 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

During an update on 10 July (Thursday), the Singapore Economic Resilience Taskforce (SERT) announced that Singapore companies will be able to tap on a new grant to help them adjust to the new tariff environment. Minister of Manpower Dr Tan See Leng said the Business Adaptation Grant, to be launched by October 2025, will be capped at $100,000 per company and require co-funding by firms.

SMEs will receive a higher level of support, while larger companies will be eligible for a smaller quantum. More details will be announced in October.

💬 What are your views on SERT’s latest measure to support local businesses? How can we continue to support local businesses and workers amidst this uncertain environment?

📌 Support for business

Dr Tan said the grant will support two broad groups of businesses. For firms that export to or operate in overseas markets, it will cover advisory services related to free trade agreements, trade compliance, legal and contractual matters, supply chain optimisation and market diversification. For businesses with local or overseas manufacturing operations, the grant can help to defray reconfiguration costs such as logistics and inventory-holding expenses.

📌 1st August Tariff deadline

SERT's update comes as US president Trump continues to send letters to countries informing them that they would be subject to sharply higher tariffs from Aug 1. While Singapore has not received a letter, neighbouring countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia will face tariffs of 25 per cent and 32 per cent respectively. Deputy Prime Minister Gan Kim Yong noted that tariffs for some countries in Asia were reduced from what was initially announced in April, but others will see higher levies.

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/sert-economic-resilience-business-grant-tariffs-5228891

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/spore-to-launch-new-grant-for-companies-expand-support-for-workers-amid-us-tariff-uncertainties

----

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 3:35 pm]

[ Poll : I am confident that the Business Adaptation Grant will help businesses adapt to the uncertain environment. ]

- Strongly Agree

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

- Strongly Disagree

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 3:36 pm]

[ Poll : I am concerned about the impact of the US tariffs. ]

- Very concerned

- Concerned

- Neutral (taking a wait and see approach)

- Unconcerned

- Very unconcerned

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 3:36 pm]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls 📊 and share your opinions 💭. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 3:50 pm]

1. Notice that the interim measures are supporting the business in the uncertain world - which could help businesses to pull through for the time period.

2. But what needs attention is the fresh graduates - that have difficulties in securing jobs.

RY, [10/7/2025 3:52 pm]

Our govt always come out with appropriate grant to assist biz in  crisis/event 

USA TACO unstability and always-changing policy/words are certainly affecting the whole world trade/economy 

Most of the goods & services prices increased due to the sudden announcement by TACO on 2Apr

SG is a export-oriented and depends heavily on intl trade 

Hence it is impt that the govt shd step in and help the biz. And grant is one of way to tackle the increasing prices

Vijay, [10/7/2025 3:52 pm]

Concern about the job market for experienced and fresh graduates over US’s trade policies. It could be a cascading effect.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 3:55 pm]

3. Out of all my nephews and nieces graduating this year from the Universities, only one has a scholarship to do his PhD sponsor by a company.

4. But the rest have yet to secure a job.

5. Even companies that have offered internships to them say they are not recruiting - as business is uncertain.

6. Despite sending resumes to many companies, there are no reply.

7. I feel that the government should work with Universities, IHLs, business, e2i and NTUC to help fresh graduates to secure their jobs.

8. This phenomenon is affecting their entire cohorts in the various faculties.

9. I think the situation is quite serious.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 3:58 pm]

"Govt watching job situation for fresh graduates closely, exploring further support: Gan Siow Huang"

 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/govt-watching-job-situation-for-fresh-graduates-closely-exploring-further-support-gan-siow-huang#:~:text=Govt%20watching%20job%20situation%20for%20fresh%20graduates%20closely%2C%20exploring%20further%20support%3A%20Gan%20Siow%20Huang

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:00 pm]

10. Some who manage to secure a jobs are internship and not permanent jobs.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:02 pm]

‘I applied to over 300 jobs’: What people wish they knew before they got laid off.                                              

https://www.straitstimes.com/life/i-applied-to-over-300-jobs-what-people-wish-they-knew-before-they-got-laid-off

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:02 pm]

"NUS Computer Science grad yet to land job despite sending hundreds of applications".

https://theindependent.sg/nus-computer-science-grad-yet-to-land-job-despite-sending-hundreds-of-applications/#:~:text=2%20min.Read-,NUS,-Computer%20Science%20grad

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:03 pm]

‘I have been job hunting since February and till now I still have no luck in getting a job’  — new NTU grad says - Singapore News.

 https://share.google/fs7aEtBNa85AQZB57

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:04 pm]

"Why Singapore’s fresh grads are struggling to get hired.

As job offers disappear and rejection e-mails pile up, Gen Zs are stepping into a gloomy job market.

 Will this be a passing shower or a prolonged downpour?"

 https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/opinion-features/why-singapores-fresh-grads-are-struggling-get-hired#:~:text=Why%20Singapore%E2%80%99s%20fresh,a%20prolonged%20downpour%3F

RY, [10/7/2025 4:05 pm]

The govt already announced and closely monitoring 

Believe our govt may do something abt the job mkt in near future 

Anyway not only fresh graduates job searching are affected, many matured workers jobs are also affected by the mkt instability, and increased cost of living 

So we shd not be focusing on just fresh graduates only 

Fresh graduates may further their study if job mkt is not gd 

Matured workers may have to focus on SkillsFuture and further training

365, [10/7/2025 4:08 pm]

The job hunting issue lacks reliable statistics. We don't know what is the cause, is it misaligned expectations or poor interview skills or other factors. When I graduated there was also doubts over the job market, but I didn't take long to secure an offer, though the pay was considered on the lower end for graduates.

I'm not saying that it's always the job hunter's issues, but without a reliable statistics on the actual reasons why, annectodal evidence isn't much help.

365, [10/7/2025 4:10 pm]

The media will also have a sample bias, only those who can't land a job will be sounding out their dissatisfaction. While those who were successful won't be very vocal about landing a job in our culture.

RY, [10/7/2025 4:20 pm]

We shd be speaking for all age-grp of people looking for jobs and not only fresh graduates 

During the past crisis eg sub-prime/asian financial crisis/covid19 and etc, they are also fresh graduates  that time whom were affected, and also many matured workers were laid off too 

Hence our govt when assisting job hunters, they shd be focusing all age-grp whether they are fresh graduates/matured workers/elderly and etc, 

Being young fresh graduates, they have so many options avail for them eg further study/online bloggers/starting own biz/travelling/volunteering and etc 

Matured workers may req more assistance, as most have family/elderly/mortgages/children/medical and etc, and hence their financial burdens are much more than any fresh graduates

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:23 pm]

1. In my opinion, both fresh graduates and mature workers will need help to get jobs when the job market turn sour.

2. Because fresh graduates also need to pay off study loans that are not cheap.

Not many can afford to keep studying.

3. Many also need to work to support the family as their parents are retiring or have retired.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:24 pm]

4. Some are engaged and are planning to get married and start a family - but unable to secure a job.

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 4:28 pm]

➡️ Graduates should ‘stay calm’, with early data showing better employment rates: Tan See Leng

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/singapore/graduates-should-stay-calm-early-data-showing-better-employment-rates-tan-see-leng

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:32 pm]

5. Of course mature workers will be more anxious as they have more financial commitments.

RY, [10/7/2025 4:35 pm]

I was also told b4 that many fresh graduates are mostly very choosy in terms of job hunting

Many jobs they didnt want to take up, maybe due to long hours/under the sun n etc 

There are some industries in SG eg healthcare/F&B/retail/IT n etc that are always shortage of workers and foreign workers have to fill up 

Hence fresh graduates may consider also, as not all the jobs are with air-con and sit in ofc always as we know 

If the fresh graduates are not that choosy, there are many job opportunities out there esp for young people to venture/experience also 

Yesterday news about shortage of teachers as per the Minister, during the graduation ceremony 

https://share.google/n8XEdzFxFi8e4RUCJ

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:40 pm]

I think fresh graduates should also not be shortchange.

Eg. If the fresh graduates are trained in engineering, computer science - they should secure jobs in their trained professions and not ended up in f&b, construction or retail.

Else the trained talents are wasted when the industries are in short supply of such professionals but holding back recruitment because of uncertainties in the business.

Joomua Tng, [10/7/2025 4:42 pm]

maybe graduate should consider degree is like o level or diploma in the past. 

no longer belong to the managerial job status of the past.

......

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:44 pm]

Actually all those University's trained degree are badly needed in the various industries.

In fact in short supply - if not for Trump nonsensical tariff war that throw the world economy into disarray.

Business erring on the caution side are holding back recruitment.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:46 pm]

If all these professions decide to go into those not relevant service industries just for the salary - the whole cohort generations will lose one generation of respective trained professionals to service the various industries - when the temporary crisis blown over.

RY, [10/7/2025 4:46 pm]

Most of the Gen Z parents are around 40-60 now

And usually this age-grp of parents, whom are mostly educated and still working, and they already have their own retirement plan themselves, and dont really depend on the Gen Z children to support them 

Gen X people are the most tedious, as their parents are mostly with little/no education/little savings, and now they are too old with med conditions, that the Gen X children have to look after them

Dr. Goh, [10/7/2025 4:47 pm]

Disagree. There is no way to plan if the jobs are handed to foreigners.

Dr. Goh, [10/7/2025 4:52 pm]

Even with PhD I saw new citizen with PhD looking for job overseas. It is bleak for all.

What the government can do is prioritise jobs for local born first. Control how many are brought in every year and make sure the jobs available aren't taken up by foreigners first. This can be done with a broad brush approach - companies with higher proportion of local born get better corporate tax rates and more government support. Those with low proportions pay punitive tax rates.

There is very limited space in Singapore so it has to be used for Singaporeans first. If it doesn't benefit Singaporeans then the companies have no business being here and government has to make them pay the social costs.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:56 pm]

On another front, I think our government also should take note of the Maga Lago accord.

It is very detrimental to our sovereign fund.

RY, [10/7/2025 4:57 pm]

行行出状员 

Working is also for experience purposely, and not mainly for monetary term 

Eg engineer graduates career path is not nec to go into engineering industry, do U agree ?  

Yr study may not nec end up in yr career path all the time

There is no rules that graduates cannot work in F&B/retail/healthcare and etc 

We shd respect all jobs, and there is no low and high class type of mindset

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 4:59 pm]

Trump's tariffs turbocharge de-dollarization: World sells US dollar assets, seeking alternatives - Geopolitical Economy Report

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/05/05/trump-tariffs-dedollarization-sell-us-dollar/#:~:text=Trump%E2%80%99s%20tariffs%20turbocharge,alternative%20reserve%20assets

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:02 pm]

I am saying, if a person are trained in engineering and University allocation of place is to ensure industry talent is needed, put the graduate in the right job to meet the industry demand.

Not looking down on other profession.

When economy recovers, when engineers are needed, the whole cohort of engineers cannot be found.

This is the whole crux of the message.

And if a person is trained in computer science, let him do IT job.

And if a graduate is trained in sustainability, let him do the green energy.

Because all these talents take a lot of money and time to train.

If these graduates are redirected to other unrelated professions, all their trained expertise, government education subsidies, university efforts will be go to waste.

When economy recover and need such professions, the whole cohort in various industries suddenly in short supply and business cannot grow - impacting the entire economy.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:03 pm]

Another concern is that the Trump administration could effectively default on US government obligations.

Trump’s top economic advisor, Stephen Miran, has proposed that Washington could force foreign countries *to exchange their outstanding Treasury holdings with 100-year bonds with no coupon (ie, no interest payment)*. That would mean that, with inflation, the value of these bonds would significantly decrease over time, and foreign nations would therefore be subsidizing the US government.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:06 pm]

In a speech explaining Trump’s tariff strategy, Miran argued that countries “could simply write checks to Treasury that help us finance global public goods”.

This policy proposal is part of a hypothetical “Mar-a-Lago Accord” that the Trump administration wants to impose on US trading partners.

Chinese economists argue that this would constitute *a de facto US government default*.

The Financial Times quoted remarks made at a conference in April by a Chinese government advisor who previously was a member of the Monetary Policy Committee at the People’s Bank of China, Yu Yongding. He argued that *if the Trump administration did this, it would amount to a debt default*.

RY, [10/7/2025 5:06 pm]

Those parents btw 40-60 age grp, mostly already have own retirement ins plans/investment/cpf/saving and etc - may check around 

Unlike those PG (more than 70 age) elderly parents, they dont have much saving and has little investment knowledge to plan for their retirement. 

Also their earnings was little due to little/no education and just enough to bring up their Gen X children (whom are now around 40-60)

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:06 pm]

Yu said of Miran’s proposal, “That poses a huge threat to China, and we may end up paying a steep price”.

In China, the FT noted, “some influential scholars are now advocating a move towards outright de-dollarisation, rather than gradual adjustments to the mix of dollar-denominated assets”.

*Instead of buying more US Treasuries, Chinese officials are investing in the sovereign debt of other countries, especially from Europe. These include German bonds and Swiss bonds, as well as potentially even Japanese bonds*.

The People’s Bank of China has also been purchasing large sums of gold.

The central banks of many other countries, especially those that are members of or have expressed interest in joining BRICS, have piled into gold in the past decade.

This is a major reason why the price of gold has skyrocketed.

RY, [10/7/2025 5:09 pm]

In layman term, writing chq to US Treasury are just simply "bribery/corruption" 

When the govt shd be supposingly to look after own citizens and not the US govt/americans

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:11 pm]

The Maga Lago accord is a serious threat if Trump administration ever carried out.

We have US $260 billion stuck in Treasury bonds.

RY, [10/7/2025 5:12 pm]

Putting people in the right job, this depend on the job hunting person, whether he/she is looking what type of job, and whether he/she accepts the job offer ultimately

RY, [10/7/2025 5:16 pm]

Yep, I hope MAS/Temasek/GiC may consider other investment means eg gold, as US Treasury is no longer a stable asset, as downgraded by many financial rating co eg Moody

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:19 pm]

"ECONOMYTrump advisor reveals tariff strategy: Force countries to pay tribute to maintain US empire.

Donald Trump’s top economic advisor Stephen Miran revealed that Washington’s strategy is to use tariffs to force countries to pay the USA tribute to maintain its global financial and military empire. This is the idea behind the so-called “Mar-a-Lago Accord”."

https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2025/04/10/trump-advisor-miran-tariff-pay-us-empire/#:~:text=Geopolitical%20Economy%20Report-,ECONOMY,is%20the%20idea%20behind%20the%20so%2Dcalled%20%E2%80%9CMar%2Da%2DLago%20Accord%E2%80%9D.,-By

RY, [10/7/2025 5:20 pm]

No investor would be unwise to invest in such 100yr treasury bond with zero interest

Nobody knows what may happen a century later also

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:23 pm]

If the Maga Lago accord ever carried out, US credibility will fall to the rock bottom.

Big capital outflow, will happen.

US financial market will collapse not restricting to bond market - which in fact will become "junk bonds".

US equity market, banking, insurance and other financial market will collapse - as investors will pull out and flee the US market.

US $ will also collapse because world countries will no longer trust US $.

So Trump administration got to be very careful if indeed they want to proceed into Maga Lago accord.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:26 pm]

No investors will commit to 100 year bond with no interest rate.

But Trump can arm twist all the bond holders if he discover that he can do so with impunity.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:36 pm]

US $36 trillion + $2.5 trillion debt is their nemesis.

And if they meddle with the bond market going through the Maga Lago accord - essentially, Trump is expediting the falling of the US empire - when all investors in unison exit out of US financial market.

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 5:38 pm]

➡️ Singapore to roll out business grants in October amid Trump tariff pressures

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/dpm-gan-plans-us-visit-to-discuss-tariffs-business-opportunities-for-singapore

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:38 pm]

"Trump says steep copper tariffs in store as he broadens his trade war.

US pharmaceutical stocks also slid following Trump's threat of 200 per cent tariffs on drug imports".

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/donald-trump-steep-copper-tariffs-trade-war-us-5227391#:~:text=Trump%20says%20steep,on%20drug%20imports

RY, [10/7/2025 5:42 pm]

SG has a smart govt, that is why SG enjoy surplus in most Natl Budget, with MAS/GIC/Temask investments 

Everybody knows what is behind this Maga Lago Accord 

USA TACO Trump always used threatening and forcing strategies to other countries 

So it depends on gd/smart is the other country govt to deal with TACO (Trump always chicken out) 

See how China deals with TACO and how USA finally compromise in the end 

As per Canada foreign minister suggestion, we shd kick USA out of the WTO, and make the world trade more prosperous without USA  

Rem TACO words always changing, and even if U give in, TACO will sure ask for more later, as we all know they are just a grp "bully"

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:46 pm]

"Trump takes on the Fed – but he has little power over central bank, economists say".

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-takes-fed-little-power-110006533.html#:~:text=Trump%20takes%20on%20the%20Fed%20%E2%80%93%20but%20he%20has%20little%20power%20over%20central%20bank%2C%20economists%20say

RY, [10/7/2025 5:48 pm]

The world financial mkt must learn fm this TACO episode also 

Never depend on any single country currency/treasury/swift system,  see how Iran/Cuba/Russia/NorthKorea suffers due to sanction 

Also Never sign any Accord initiated by USA, see how Japan economy downfall for the past 20-30 years

RY, [10/7/2025 5:50 pm]

Lucky Mr Powell is still the chairman of Federal Reserves

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:51 pm]

Another front that I want to highlight is Trump interference of Fed in managing the monetary policy.

Singapore interest rate like HK are somehow align to Fed interest rate.

But Trump in May 2026 will be appointing a compliant Fed Chief - that will have direct influence in administering monetary policy.

In which White House has full control over its fiscal policy.

When this happens, US economic and financial turmoil will ensue.

Because a good economic policy is where monetary policy must be independent of the executive who are formulating the fiscal policy.

Else economic turbulence will ensue.

Hence MAS will need to seriously study whether Singapore interest rate need to closely aligned with US Fed interest rate come May 2026 next year.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:52 pm]

Economists have found that countries *without central banks* are prone to *high inflation and unemployment*.

“A central bank’s independence is pretty much the only thing macroeconomists know of that’s a free lunch,” said Jason Furman, a former economic adviser to Barack Obama. 

“When you look at *authoritarian leaders that have effectively taken over the central banks*, like in *Turkey, you can end up with 70% inflation rates* and really, really *big economic problems*.”

RY, [10/7/2025 5:54 pm]

Agree 

Hope americans are wise to elect a "good sense" President going forward

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:54 pm]

"1965: The Year the Fed and LBJ Clashed.

The storied showdown between Fed Chairman Bill Martin and President Lyndon Johnson wasn't just about personalities. It was a fundamental dispute over the Fed's policymaking role."

Highlight that separation of FED decision making in monetary policy from White House is so important.

https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/econ_focus/2016/q3-4/federal_reserve#:~:text=1965%3A%20The%20Year,Fed%27s%20policymaking%20role.

RY, [10/7/2025 5:55 pm]

Learn fm past history always

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 5:58 pm]

Trump is not learning from past mistakes.

He is repeating:-

1. Tariff war that lead to deep depression in 1930s in which tariff is about 11% to less than 20%.

Trump tariff is 10, 25,..... 200%.

2. 1930s deep depression lead to WW2.

3. Trump repeating the mistake of White House interference on Fed.

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 6:04 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

RY, [10/7/2025 6:10 pm]

Bec TACO thinks he is god 

Even recent Brics Meeting, he threaten Brics countries and Brazil 

USA not even Brics members, but meddling into Brics affairs

RY, [10/7/2025 6:13 pm]

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/tremendous-opportunities-for-growth-in-us-singapore-ties-says-trumps-ambassador-nominee-sinha

RY, [10/7/2025 6:19 pm]

Recent news fm StraitsTime, I hope this Dr Anja will not be USA ambassador in SG - no knowledge abt US-SG relationship 

Trump always nominate not capable people in the different postition eg Fox News anchor as US Defence Minister, he didnt even know which countries in ASEAN, when he spoke in recent ShangriLa Dialogue

RY, [10/7/2025 6:38 pm]

Although I dont like Elon, but I still hope that he may set up  a new Party in USA, besides Democratic/Republican, so that there are some other "voices" to speak/defend the unreasonable bills by TACO

Trump is the 1st President in USA that his wealth grows quad-fold during presidency, due to insider trading and cryptocurrencies

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:41 pm]

You need to see if what they are studying fit

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:42 pm]

Sorry been scrolling through the messages

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 6:43 pm]

Not meant to interfere with American politics.

But Elon party policy direction is not clear.

Both democrats and republican parties value system have some good points and some bad ones.

Neither party on its own is good.

My personal opinion.

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:47 pm]

But I think no direction is the best direction. I think a technology corporate boss is better than a business man

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:47 pm]

Anyway we still got 3- 4 years with trump

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:48 pm]

Let's focus on how to deal with trump

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 6:48 pm]

If we can survive this 4 years.

365, [10/7/2025 6:49 pm]

It's the cards we're dealt with, can only play to the best that we can. We don't have the capabilities to flip table.

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:50 pm]

Trump actions is basically flipping the table

365, [10/7/2025 6:51 pm]

Yeah, US can, SG cannot

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:52 pm]

Now we have a baseline on the 10% tariff. So what can we do

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:52 pm]

Either giving the 10% back to us consumer or suck thumb to pay part of 10 or all of the 10

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:53 pm]

I think that's the only option businesses can do

RY, [10/7/2025 6:55 pm]

It is a gd initiative for SG 

govt to help biz during this 'man-made tariff crisis" 

If the biz can survive during this crisis with govt assistance, when most costs are increasing, then  people may keep their jobs ... 

Just like the Cdc vouchers helping families in SG,  to tackle with the increasing cost of living

365, [10/7/2025 6:55 pm]

I think this highlights the importance of a strong economic alliance. ASEAN really isn't in an ideal position that we will band together against outside forces.

I doubt BRICS is not an option for Singapore in the near future due to our stance against Russia

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:56 pm]

Attract more regional business to do transfer? Will it cause sg kena more tariff?

RY, [10/7/2025 6:56 pm]

I pray hard that TACO maybe impeach soon ..

RY, [10/7/2025 6:57 pm]

Agree and Russia will not accept SG as BRICS member also

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:57 pm]

So I think don't do anything is the best

365, [10/7/2025 6:57 pm]

If we have a strong economic alliance, then Trump flip table we can just open another one. Now he flip table but we can't do anything except to carry on. Let's say if we ideally can expand until ASEAN + China + EU, then we just let Trump throw a tantrum and open another table ourselves, who cares.

RY, [10/7/2025 6:58 pm]

Sg is too small to have much influence in the world mkt

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:58 pm]

So you mean don't export to us?

365, [10/7/2025 6:58 pm]

Basically the stronger and larger an economic alliance is, the less likely that any single nation will be able to flip table and get away with it.

365, [10/7/2025 6:59 pm]

Don't export lor, we have other countries. We enclose and block out US and USD. That is an ideal scenario of a strong economic alliance, which currently does not exist.

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 6:59 pm]

A union except us?

RY, [10/7/2025 7:00 pm]

Best is to kick USA out of the WTO system 

Since TACO dont honour FTA sign earlier

365, [10/7/2025 7:00 pm]

You don't allow any single player to throw a tantrum

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:00 pm]

The thing is business that works with us will kena

RY, [10/7/2025 7:01 pm]

Maybe EU may join RCEP in future ....

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:01 pm]

And later sg cannot go Harvard

365, [10/7/2025 7:02 pm]

Sometimes, you need to take short term pain for long term benefits. Now you bite the bullet and tahan him, take the small loss, then you'll continue taking small losses in future.

Compared to you take a big and quick pain, then recover and thrive from then on. We don't even have this option to consider in the current political climate.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:02 pm]

Many of our scholars in Harvard still stuck.

Visa not renew.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:02 pm]

How is the Harvard episode ?

Ard 100+ SG students still there

365, [10/7/2025 7:03 pm]

It feels like they are trying to convert countries into their vessel states without making it official

RY, [10/7/2025 7:05 pm]

Vessel states like HK ....

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:05 pm]

I think these tariff will not last forever one. Next president will revoke it

RY, [10/7/2025 7:05 pm]

Exactly

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:06 pm]

Tariff once impose very difficult to remove.

365, [10/7/2025 7:06 pm]

Biden didn't remove the tariffs from trump's first term

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:06 pm]

Not president command meh

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:06 pm]

Can assume US is no longer a good place to trade.

Must look for alternative replacement.

365, [10/7/2025 7:07 pm]

Besides, if the tariffs really work for them, then the next president to take it off will lose a lot of political standing. That's why it's best if we can make it not work in their favor.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:07 pm]

Because local industries will insist on non removal of tariffs to protect their business from non competition.

Local workers expect their industry and jobs to be protected.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:07 pm]

FTA also can revoke, not to mention tariffs

365, [10/7/2025 7:07 pm]

Singapore individually don't have this power

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:08 pm]

Removal of tariffs often results in labour protest and militant Unions.

Steven Ong, [10/7/2025 7:09 pm]

A good lesson to every trading partner to diversify trading relationships

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:09 pm]

It takes decades of political will to push for globalisation and removal of tariffs.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:09 pm]

No smart leader will be as 'brainless" as TACO ...

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:10 pm]

Just don't go us lor

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:11 pm]

They are like a Pacific ocean away

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:11 pm]

US citizens will just have to live with high inflation and high cost of living.

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:11 pm]

On the other side of the world, like we export many things to them

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:11 pm]

The world will lose one big consumption nation and one big market.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:12 pm]

Yes, every govt learning nowsaday not to depend on another country 

Hard lessons for Japan/Korea/EU also

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:12 pm]

More of we importing things from them

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:12 pm]

US form 10% of our total export about S$55 billion not that big.

China & HK we export more - double.

Hence we need to find new market, expand existing market or go into new areas that can replace our $55 billion.

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:13 pm]

Like what we export sia

RY, [10/7/2025 7:13 pm]

USA just exporting services mainly and just few pdts eg planes (BOEING)

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:13 pm]

On the other side of the world leh

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:14 pm]

We also not a manufacturing country

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:15 pm]

Other than some small lab and pharma stuff

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:15 pm]

Which we import more

365, [10/7/2025 7:16 pm]

Machinery is the next biggest after all the medical stuff iirc

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:18 pm]

I heard from Dou yin since service is not part of tariff they split the parts and sell lessons how to assemble them

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:19 pm]

Just need to see what is exempted then we try to sell it through loop holes

365, [10/7/2025 7:20 pm]

Actually the biggest issue is the currency, I think if not for the USD being a global reserve, many more countries willing to just ignore them, even if it means giving up part of their business. Can slowly scale down. But the USD is holding all of them back.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:21 pm]

World leaders pls learn fm USD lessons

Steven Ong, [10/7/2025 7:25 pm]

One concern from this is the employment of the recent graduates.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:25 pm]

As per US law, only US Congress has the right for tariffs and not the President 

Hope the americans themselves can stop this " Senseless Tariff" episode 

No man can go above/ beyond the law/consitution

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:27 pm]

2 big components we export to US:-

1. Pharmaceutical 

2. Semiconductor 

We just need to scout around the world for customers to absorb our pharmaceutical and semiconductor of about $55 billion.

Then we will be safe.

But both these products are high value and high costs, only rich and developed countries can afford.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:27 pm]

Not only fresh graduates are impacted by this tariff episode, many matured workers are also

RY, [10/7/2025 7:28 pm]

China/Europe/Japan/Korea may absorb our semiconductor/pharma high-value pdts

365, [10/7/2025 7:30 pm]

Actually I'm quite curious, did we sell to them due to diplomacy, them being the highest bidder, or other factors? I don't think they won't be additional demand for those items from other countries.

If we have leftover stock then maybe it's worrisome. Else, it means we have more demand than supply. Need to know the actual facts.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:30 pm]

China cannot.

US sanctions Malaysia.

We better don't fall into the same trap.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:32 pm]

Not politics.

US consumers very rich, they buy many high price medicine.

They also buy many electronic and IT products.

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:33 pm]

US consumers are rich because they live on debt.

365, [10/7/2025 7:33 pm]

And how sure are we that there's no surplus demand from other countries that we haven't met yet? Because if that's all, then it's just a pricing issue, got negotiation leeway. Though the biggest headache is still the USD stranglehold after all.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:44 pm]

Oops, my bad ...

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 7:45 pm]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

RY, [10/7/2025 7:45 pm]

Many americans living in poverty also

RY, [10/7/2025 7:47 pm]

Due to MAGA & Harvard episode, US tourism already drop drastically

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:48 pm]

Yes.

We need to find the surplus demand from the rest of the world.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:48 pm]

US always busy sanction other countries over the years

LCL (Danny 心), [10/7/2025 7:48 pm]

That's why we need to be careful.

365, [10/7/2025 7:51 pm]

That's why more countries need to come together to ditch the USD and strip them of this unfair advantage. The idea that brics have is good, but the execution isn't there, especially with India blocking it

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:51 pm]

But if USD falls which will be the next currency that dominate the world

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:52 pm]

Don't buy us stock

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:52 pm]

A lot people use usdt as a substitute

Jun Ming, [10/7/2025 7:52 pm]

Not so sure if it is safe

365, [10/7/2025 7:52 pm]

That's the idea that brics is having for a while already. A new global currency that isn't tied to any one country. It's just a pity that India isn't aligned and so nothing can be executed.

RY, [10/7/2025 7:53 pm]

Lets pray this Brainless Maga President may step down/impeach in near future  

And the world trade maybe able to revert to normal 

For all the bad deeds that USA done eg supporting Israel (genocider), US will sure have their karma one day

365, [10/7/2025 7:53 pm]

If not, there could be slow and steady adoption, and maybe could work within the next decade or 2

RY, [10/7/2025 7:55 pm]

Crazy India who oppose every agenda 

India is just simply trouble-maker in most of Group eg BRICS, maybe with US "instruction"

RY, [10/7/2025 7:56 pm]

No country single currency shd dominate the financial world 

A lesson that every country leader should learn fm USA episode

RY, [10/7/2025 7:58 pm]

Tks Reach Team and GdNite Participants 🙏

REACH Singapore, [10/7/2025 8:00 pm]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====

REACH (Telegram) 84 -  What are your views on this topic? What more can be done to ensure healthcare remains affordable and sustainable for all?

(SK)

02 Jul 2025 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 9:45 am]

Dear Contributors,

Welcome Back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

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Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies. 

The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 10:01 am]

📢 Topic 📢

The current state of private insurance and private healthcare is unsustainable, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Tuesday (Jul 1), as he spoke of a "knot" in the relationship between the insurers and private hospitals. 

Minister Ong was giving the Ministry of Health (MOH)'s perspective on Great Eastern's suspension of its pre-authorisation certificates for admission to Mount Elizabeth hospitals since Jun 17.

💬 What are your views on this topic? What more can be done to ensure healthcare remains affordable and sustainable for all?

The "knot" came about in big part due to insurance design, he said. "Insurers know that policyholders are worried about incurring an unexpected huge hospital bill, so they launch insurance products that offer generous coverage to win customers and market share."

These products include "as-charged" or no-limit coverage, as well as riders - add-ons to the insurance plan - that will cover almost all costs. In such cases, as insurers are footing almost the entire bill, there is the tendency to "use more than is necessary", said Minister Ong, calling it "human nature". This leads to higher claims and insurers realising that the premiums they collect can no longer cover those claims.

Insurers then respond by introducing more safeguards into the claims process, such as suspending pre-authorisation for hospitals with higher claims or entering into panel arrangements with doctors, he said. They also respond by raising premiums, he said, noting that premiums for riders have increased sharply over the past few years.

This causes policyholders, insurers, doctors, and hospitals to all be caught in a "knot".

📌 MOH intervention sufficient so far

To tackle the issue, MOH has intervened in a few ways, said Minister Ong. One way it did so was to introduce fee benchmarks to guide pricing and prevent over-charging of medical bills. Since 2018, it has done so for private professional fees.

"We are now studying the possibility of going beyond professional fees, by introducing more benchmarks for hospital charges, to guide fee setting by private hospitals," added Minister Ong.

MOH has also intervened in instances when doctors make errant claims. The ministry has taken action against a "small minority" of offending doctors by making them attend a "refresher course on fee setting" or suspending them from claiming from MediSave and MediShield Life.

Noting the need for more affordable private hospital choices, Minister Ong said that the ministry is exploring the possibility of a new not-for-profit private hospital - first introduced in February 2024 - but that such a move will take a few years still.

However, MOH's actions are insufficient, said Minister Ong. "Ultimately, private insurers need to take a hard and realistic look at their product design, particularly those of riders."

📌 The role of private insurers

Minister Ong acknowledged that private insurers have made "some effort" to redesign their insurance plans.

Most insurers now offer more affordable rider alternatives which do not fully cover deductibles or have a larger co-payment component, he said.

"But more importantly, these riders can help to dull the incentives to over-service and over-charge, while still providing the additional protection against large cash co-payments that policyholders value.

"In the longer term, patients seeking care in private hospitals will find that they are getting a better deal than the current situation, which is clearly unsustainable."

Every stakeholder will need to do its part so that the "knot" can be gradually loosened and untied, said Minister Ong, adding that MOH will be "facilitating" this untying process.

Minister Ong added that Great Eastern's move only affects those patients on private insurance plans and who intend to receive care at private hospitals. 

Over 90 per cent of acute inpatient care is delivered in public hospitals, including those who opt for unsubsidised wards, he said.

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 10:01 am]

🔗 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ong-ye-kung-private-insurance-healthcare-great-eastern-pre-authorisation-certificates-mount-elizabeth-5213466

----

365, [2/7/2025 10:15 am]

Enforcement is going to be tough, but I think doctors should not ask patients for insurance coverage when treating. If patients need assistance with financials or understanding of their coverage, there should be another department independent of the doctors to assist. This means that doctors are providing treatment independent of the knowledge of insurance coverage for the patient.

If patients are requesting for additional procedures after the doctor has performed their assessment on what is necessary, this needs to be indicated in the bill and since needs additional request, it should not be covered by insurance, actually pretty similar to how car owners try to sneak in upgrades or replacement parts unaffected by accidents they've been involved in. 

It is pretty idealistic and hard to enforce though, but maybe the idea can start off as a foundation to work on.

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 11:03 am]

[ Poll : Which approach would help ensure sustainable healthcare for Singaporeans? ]

- Stricter regulation of private hospital charges

- Redesigned insurance products with co-payment

- More not-for-profit private hospitals

- Enhanced public healthcare capacity

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 11:08 am]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our poll and share your opinions. 

Today’s poll allows you to select more than one option, and your vote is anonymous. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Megan 😊

Daniel, [2/7/2025 11:20 am]

This should allow for multiple choices. I don't think there's a single simple solution.

365, [2/7/2025 11:25 am]

My take is government hospitals are generally acceptable quality wise, but the struggle with capacity is what pushes some common folks to private, especially when they're suffering or possibly have an illness or disease which requires time critical treatment. I'm ignoring the subset of patients that goes private regardless for the sake of this argument, that's more of a personal choice.

Honestly, I'm not getting how different not-for-profit private hospitals are with public Healthcare, from public pov, if quality is same and out of pocket cost is the same, we don't have much complaints. 

The increase in public Healthcare capacity and more not-for-profit private will provide more timely access to healthcare by virtue of increased capacity and availability. 

I don't like the idea of redesigning insurance products, seems like treating the symptom and not the root cause. Insurance providers will look out for their bottom line, and then try to skirt around the intentions of the new designs with other restrictions or implement additional cost. 

Personally, I buy insurance of a sense of security and stability, and also wouldn't like changes to it in the long term, doesn't make me feel secure if the conditions I agreed and signed to can be redesigned afterwards.

365, [2/7/2025 11:26 am]

You can vote for multiple options for this poll

Daniel, [2/7/2025 11:28 am]

Thank you, didn't notice

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:31 am]

Gov should allow medisave and medishield to be used overseas

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:31 am]

Reduce strain on healthcare here

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:32 am]

Make use of our strong currency for people who want to cheap out

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:34 am]

https://youtu.be/V1sWFzpuwwU

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:35 am]

Med companies are profiteering from monopoly and fear. If we open to a free intl market, we can see them compete and bring costs down

Adam, [2/7/2025 11:37 am]

We hire foreign docs anyway since we limit med school intake. And many singaporeans wanna retire overseas. Make overseas medicine more accessible

RY, [2/7/2025 12:18 pm]

The main is the high costs/fees charged by the private hospitals and not so much the patients themselves 

Every scan/test and etc are mostly order by the Dr  

An example - 

Private hospital also charge every small items like mouthrinse/tissue box and etc 

Bec patients unable to go down the bed and brush teeth after ops the 1st few days and have to use mouthrinse 

In the end, I get my friend to buy for me when they visit me, rather than unsure pte hospital will charge me later in the bill 

Private hospital already charged high fee for daily room, and they shd provide these small items similar like hotels, however they still bill patients all these small items, how can the bill not increasing ? 

Another example, 

Upon discharged, the pte hospital, they shd provide patients with discharged summary by "default" like any public hospitals

I rem I forget to ask on my day of discharge the "discharge summary", and later when I request, the pte hospital want to charge me for the discharge summary ....

Bec they said that I didnt request  on day of discharge and I argue that the docs shd be given to me as patient as part of the discharge procedure   

So we can see how pte hospital is so money-minded and why the pte hospital bill so high

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:47 pm]

Problems are from insurance company. They are like 一言堂 where they set the rules. 

So many rules and clause and they can change it on immediate effect. That's why I only buy the basic insurance

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:47 pm]

And only go for gov hospital

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:50 pm]

Then a lot of insurance agents always like push for insurance like early critical illness, better insurance plan etc. I am like medi sheild not enough meh

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:52 pm]

The only part is no healthcare insurance recognised TCM. Only accidents policy which must really prove you have accident

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:53 pm]

Like AIA got a form for TCM doctor to fill in. Very disgusting

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:54 pm]

Shouldn't tcm be separate from standard insurance?

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:54 pm]

If someone doesnt use tcm, should their premiums subsidize those that would use tcm?

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:55 pm]

Does polyclinic give referral to tcm clinic?

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:56 pm]

There's no policy that's purely TCM

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:57 pm]

Wait what do you mean?

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:57 pm]

What kind of insurace is your ideal?

Adam, [2/7/2025 12:58 pm]

Tcm by itself? Tcm+conventional?

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 12:59 pm]

TCM + conventional will be more ideal. Like adding a rider for TCM on extra cost will be good

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:00 pm]

Doesnt it already exist?

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:01 pm]

Have meh. Only accident policy so far I came across

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:02 pm]

For one, raffles has 'premier rider' allowing for 'post hospitalization tcm' among other things

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:03 pm]

Well, not tcm by itself but tcm insurance exists

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:05 pm]

Well maybe but insurance company like to make it hard to claim

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:05 pm]

Which makes me like what's the point of having insurance

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:06 pm]

For eg aia accident policy they change it to very strict that under certain conditions then It is a accident

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:06 pm]

I guess the insurer needs to be more open on the claims process

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:07 pm]

MOH has a table on claim rejection %

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:07 pm]

Maybe MOH can force the providers to give more granular data

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:07 pm]

% of denial of TCM

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:08 pm]

Separated by hospital

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:09 pm]

MOH say if you have dispute, can go to fidrec but idk if it helps

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:10 pm]

I think it's just too many clause that customers just feel very sian hearing so many clause

Adam, [2/7/2025 1:10 pm]

I think gov needs to step in a little to keep both hospitals and insurers in line. Cannot just charge cust or change policy willy nilly

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:11 pm]

And agents may misled consumer or consumer may have a different idea

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:13 pm]

Maybe simplify insurance or maybe those insurance that can be customised

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:14 pm]

Will be more beneficial

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:17 pm]

It will be better if consumers can  click on which private hospital that can be covered and calculate the price. Some of the exempted treatment can put in as another option

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:19 pm]

People like me cheapo will only click on gov hospital and TCM clinics while rich people can click more based on their needs

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 1:20 pm]

So instead so many small policy we can have one health care policy

Nicholas, [2/7/2025 1:33 pm]

Nowadays, a one day stay in a private hospital class A ward exceeds S$5,000. I wonder why it's so high. Insurers also keep increasing their premiums or if they don't increase, add in things like excess payment amounts or requiring panel doctors. And then after you claim, your premium spikes for the next 3 to 4 years. In essence, you're made to pay fully for what you claimed over the next 3 to 4 years. What is the benefit of insurance then, shouldn't the insurer spread the cost amongst all who are insured and have economies of scale?

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 2:00 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 2:43 pm]

1. When no co-payment is made by patients, there is tendency to invite a "Buffet Syndrome Phenomenon" due to Human inherent roots of "Greed 贪":-

a. Since everything is "free" - ie. no need to pay cash "out-of-pocket" - tendency is for patients to go for treatment for any slide discomfort, more tests, get more medicine, get top of the range treatment etc. 

Because "I don't need to pay, insurers pay mah".

This is human nature.

b. Private Hospitals and Doctors who are human, who want higher bonus, higher pay, higher profits for hospital - and knowing patients will not scrutinize and restraint doctors over-servicing - become "co-accomplice" for expensive, additional and over servicing.

Because "Insurers pay mah", "We all benefits mah - why not "zhua tua tua" - "flush big big" --- and the hospital bills spike phenonmenally.

This is human nature.

2. Hence there is need for an Authority to step in - to contain and manage such "Buffet Syndrome Phenomenon" - to prevent over-servicing and abuse.

3. I personally experience the services of both public hospital (which I predominantly patronize) and few rare instances of private hospitals (in which my previous companies - put me in when I am unwell).

The health outcomes are the same - but the hospital bills are a big difference.

"Over servicing" is very apparent in private hospitals. I need to request for discharge when I am well - else they will keep servicing.

Whereas public hospitals will keep services appropriate and put you on discharge when I recover and no longer need hospitalisation.

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:52 pm]

But you don't want another end where people don't go to see doctor

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 2:54 pm]

People sick will go see doctors.

Public hospitals are affordable and provide good medical outcomes.

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:55 pm]

Sometimes a slightly bigger wound or a small wound can means a lot and people are not seeing doctors for it

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:56 pm]

My uncle fall and have a big wound and he is reluctant to see doctor as he thought it is nothing

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:57 pm]

And he doesn't want to spend a few hundred dollars and leave his job for mc

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:58 pm]

Then we bring him to a&e and end up one month MC with very troublesome medical device with him

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 2:59 pm]

Then he was like my full attendance bonus gone

Jun Ming, [2/7/2025 3:03 pm]

But I think insurance shouldn't cover so much for private hospital just add in rider (private ) and cover emergency cases

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:06 pm]

1. Hence I agree with the Minister of Health 4 approaches to sustainable healthcare - to prevent healthcare cost from spiralling due to over-servicing and abuse - as 3 stakeholders contribute to this "Buffet Syndrome Phenomenon" specifically :-

a. Patients - who worried about incurring unexpected huge hosptial bill. "Kiasu, Kiasi" mentality.

b. Insurers - who want to corner larger market share in healthcare insurance - offer generous coverage to win customers - to include "as charge" or "no limit coverage" - that will cover "all costs" - to feed on Patients "Kiasu, Kiasi" mentality.

c. Hospitals and Doctors - who want higher profit, higher pay, higher bonus - and feed on Insurers' greed for higher market share and patients "Kiasu, Kiasi" mentality.

2. End up - healthcare cost spiral and all 3 stakeholders will now face the consequences of such abuse.

a. Insurers - unsustainable insurance payout, make lost, keep increasing premium, lose customers, people lose faith in the health insurance package.

I never subscribe to healthcare insurance - despite insistent agents.

Only believe in Medishield - good enough.

b. Patients end up paying higher and higher insurance premium and more restrictions in insurance claims.

c. Private hospitals and doctors - more and more patients shun the hospital services and the messy claims - and go to public hospitals.

d. Public hospitals - now face more patronage and become more and more busy.

3. Hence there is a need to manage and control the private healthcare sectors and health insurance as well as manage policyholders' expectation to a manageable level.

4. I feel that the 4 approaches announce by the Minister of Health - as very timely.

I think about 20 years ago - a big revamp was made on public hospitals (at that time, civil servants also has no co-payments). Healthcare is free for all civil servants.

One big revamp - put it right - and prevent a "Buffet Syndrome" from taking roots in public hospitals.

But the initial revamp make many civil servants unhappy from no payment to 10% co-pay.

But after a while, people get use to it.

And the healthcare cost in civil service come down to a sustainable level.

Now it is time to address the private hospitals "Buffet Syndrome" - to contain a spiralling private healthcare costs from spiking further.

By addressing humanity inherent roots of:-

"贪嗔痴“ - ”贪“ --- addressing Humanity's inherent roots of "Greed".

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:14 pm]

"Lidar is lame’: why Elon Musk’s vision for a self-driving Tesla taxi faltered.

The company’s rollout of its new driverless cars has gotten off to a wobbly start – and rival Waymo remains well ahead".

Foolhardy Elon Musk against proven technologies - is Tesla pitfalls.

Tesla continues to have this fetishistic view that it’s going to operate its system solely on cameras, despite every intelligent human being in this entire space saying that can’t be done,” said Brett Schreiber, an attorney who represents several alleged victims of Tesla’s autopilot failures.

“Everyone who has been following collision-avoidant technology since the 90s knows that the holy trinity is radar, lidar and cameras.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/29/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi#:~:text=Lidar%20is%20lame,remains%20well%20ahead

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:15 pm]

Ford CEO shuts down Tesla Full Self-Driving deal, says Waymo is better | Electrek.

But he stated that Ford considered LiDAR to be an important part of the picture, noting that “where the camera will be completely blinded, the LiDAR system will see exactly what’s in front of you.”

https://share.google/1j3zVwbJYO1mhKiF1

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:23 pm]

1. Hence I support the Government 1st approach of looking into insurance products -- all new healthcare insurance package should come with at least 10% co-payment - to ensure :-

a. Policyholders - only see doctors when necessary and seek and scrutinize appropriate treatment - and question the doctors why certain expensive treatment or tests if sense that the doctors or hospitals are trying to over service.

b. Ensure Insurers are providing appropriate sustainable health insurance products - and not cannabilising one another  to corner market share.

c. Ensure private hosptals and doctors - use their professional judgement to give appropriate treatment and services -- not over-servicing out of greed.

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:25 pm]

The public hospitals treatment and tests - are a good benchmark for private hospitals.

Servicing is appropriate and don't smell of over servicing to make more money out of the patients.

RY, [2/7/2025 3:33 pm]

I agree, think MOH shd give more recognisation to TCM also

RY, [2/7/2025 3:35 pm]

Yep, only Personal Accident Ins includes/recognise TCM treatment

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:38 pm]

1. Next I feel that private hospitals charges - are way too high and out of line - as compared to the public hospitals.

Treatment in few hundred of $ in public hospitals - can be few thousands in private hospitals.

Hence I support stricter regulations of private hospital charges.

2. Hence I support Minister of Health suggestions of putting out more benchmark prices in more medical treatment - to let public compare the charges of public hospitals versus private hospitals --- so that facts and knowledge will make patients decide to go public hospitals or private hospitals.

3. With co-payments of hospital bills in private hospitals --- will make patients do computation based on the benchmark prices whether going to public hospitals make more sense than going private hospitals -- since medical outcomes are the same.

4. If private hospitals price themselves out of the market - private hospitals and doctors will lose customers, profit fall, salaries fall, bonus fall.

And private hospitals and doctors - through market forces will be forced to forgo exploitation and abuses - but indulge in rational and honest treatment, tests and charges - else they will go out of business.

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:54 pm]

1. There is a need to create "real competition" to private hospitals - to bring costs to a more "sane-able" level.

2. Because without "real competition" - eg. public hospitals too crowded, long waiting times for critical treatment - patients who cannot wait will have no choice but go to more unregulated pricey private hospitals.

There are no incentives for private hospitals to reduce their prices - because "public hospitals too busy, cannot service all patients mah.

Even I charge high, over service, patients still will come mah.

Why I change my ways of doing?"

3. Hence creating "real competition" will ensure private hospitals and doctors - behave appropriately.

Real competition can come in 2 forms as identified by the Minister of Health :-

a. Create more new "Not-for-profit private hospitals".

b. Enhanced public healthcare capacity.

a. Create more  "Not-for-profit private hospitals" - I presume are self-financing, not tapping into taxpayers' money.

- I guess healthcare charges will be higher than public hospitals (not subsidise) and need to recoup sunk-in investment.

- But I think it will be lower than private hospitals - as it is a "cost recovery model" and not price its healthcare services for "big profit".

b. Next will be to Enhanced public healthcare capacity - that is will touch on taxpayers money to build bigger public hospitals, employ more public doctors and subsidise healthcare costs.

But translate into lower healthcare costs to patients.

4. I support both models - as both will provide "real competition" -- and make healthcare prices come down to a more "sane-able" level.

5. This will benefit :-

a. Patients - lower healthcare prices and good medical outcomes

b. Policyholders - lower insurance premium

c. Insurers - sustainable insurance products

d. Private Hospitals and doctors - honest profits, salaries and bonus - not obscene money.

RY, [2/7/2025 3:56 pm]

I concur 

I think public hospital svs/treatment fee and etc b4 subsidy shd serve as benchmark for private hospital, as public hospital sure have more patients than private hospitals 

Private hospitals we have cases that it is over-charged  or over-servicing or unnec scans/tests, and not for public hospital

Why the med ins premiums increasing over the years, it is mainly because of the private hospital over-charging/fees/bills including Dr prof fees

Hence MOH shd be focusing/monitoring the private hospital charges/fees/bills, as they are too profit-oriented 

MOH has also done a gd job in controlling the cancer treatment and meds towards the big pharmaceutical companies, otherwise such meds are set so high by these pharma co in the past 

MOH shd be qns the private hospital on their unnec charges also, whereby their daily room charges already high, but they still charge individual small items eg tissue box/mouthrinse n etc 

Think pte hospital may charge higher for foreign patients (non SG residents) and earn more from the wealthy foreigners

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 3:57 pm]

1. Hence we cannot cherry pick the 4 approaches - to ensure the overall healthcare prices containment is effective.

2. All 4 approaches must be adopted - to ensure cylinders are firing at all front.

3. Forgoing any one approach - will cripple the overall package - like a leak in a bucket holding the water.

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 4:00 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [2/7/2025 4:16 pm]

1. Next Medisave and Medishield should be kept within Singapore - to pay public or private hospitals healthcare service - to prevent economic leakage.

2. The eco-system of Medisave are Singaporeans and residents savings - setting aside to service our healthcare costs, Singapore Government paying out yearly 4% interest from Singapore fiscal budget and Sovereign Funds earning and collection of Singapore taxpayers.

Government also pay periodic Medisave bonus to Elderly and younger Singaporeans in good economic time.

Hence Medisave should not be used to pay overseas hospital fees - leading to an Economic leakage out of Singapore no matter how cheap -- as Healthcare sector contribute to $17.95 billion (the 2nd largest GDP contributor) to Singapore Economy.

If Medisave is allowed to pay for overseas healthcare - our Economic Growth could plummet -- leading to job loss to our healthcare sectors - hitting jobs for doctors, nurses, pharmacists, biomedical sectors etc.

The Economic damage will be very big due to capital outflow.

3. Also Medishield premium are collective payment by Singaporeans and residents - to ensure our healthcare insurance are sustainable and medicare in Singapore are vibrant and sustainable.

Foreigners don't pay a single cent for Singapore insurance premiums but foreign hospitals received healthcare businesses from Singaporeans.

If medishield are allowed to be used to pay overseas hospitals, our medical insurance premium will spike - because of economic leakage out to the rest of the world.

Imagine all our poor Singapore policyholders pay premium - not benefiting our health sectors here but all leak out to overseas hospital.

This is a big capital leakage.

No responsible government will allow such leakage to happen that damage our economy.

Imagine $17.95 billion leak out, and Singapore all hospitals close shops in the worst scenario.

When there is emergency,  ambulance send to no hospitals because local hospitals all close shops.

Joomua Tng, [2/7/2025 4:33 pm]

it only works when everyone consume only the parts where it is necessary.

the problem of private integrated medishield is the patients and doctors together.

it is known in insurance industry, Both the patients and doctors abuses the insurance system, undergoing unnecessary check up, mri, x-ray etc..

reason for such unnecessary check is due to the past insurance plan that 100% of the hospitalization cost is paid by the insurers when the patient purchased both the riders co payment and deductible.

since it is 100% paid by the insurers...patients and doctors will go for unnecessary check up....ended up increasing the insurance claim and with insurance claim rate increases, the insurance premium will increase in order to meet the cost.

........

the concept of 100% ,coverage, Now 95% , is good only when everyone plays their part of only necessary checkups..

this is something people will not adhere to.

......

solutions?

no solutions yet.

G, [2/7/2025 4:39 pm]

How does MOH ascertain what is necessary or unnecessary checks by doctors? Who are MOH to determine the medical requirements of each case? Do they want to start micromanaging each doctor?

Are they questioning doctors' professional expertise? 

The very doctors that they license under their stat board SMC?

Joomua Tng, [2/7/2025 4:42 pm]

maybe just maybe.. individual claim experience discount or rebate or something.

co payment of 10% or 20% as based.

if the person didn't make claims for certain period of time  the co payment reduces from 20% 'slowly down to 5% depending on the years of premium the individual has paid.

similarly to the deductible.

for exact figures...the insurers has to make the necessary calculation

Joomua Tng, [2/7/2025 4:42 pm]

it only works if the doctors play their parts also.

not all professionals like doctors or lawyers are honest.

G, [2/7/2025 5:07 pm]

How does this desire to reign in private healthcare costs fit in with marketing SG as a medical tourism hub?

Medical tourism is profit maximising, charging top dollar, perhaps even squeezing every dollar out of foreign insurers for private medical treatment

Joomua Tng, [2/7/2025 5:08 pm]

the first 2 points are hand in hand together.

....

should include code of conduct for medical doctors, like the MAS done for financial planners and insurance agent

G, [2/7/2025 5:11 pm]

"Healthcare affordable and sustainable for all"

How come drugs can be manufactured here in SG, but still be more expensive here than across the border?

It's a known fact that pharma companies price drugs to govts according to their ability to pay (countries with higher GDP pay higher price for similar drug, e.g. price of covid jabs)

So isn't it correct to say SG is effectively subsidising drug costs for other countries with such tiered pricing? Why shld SG continue to subsidise?

Khai Mun L., [2/7/2025 5:32 pm]

The observation might not be fully correct, bulk orders could be cheaper. Sg limited by size and demand.

But how to resolve this situation since the pharma companies hold the power? Tax them until they move  manufacturing out of sg?

Also, we also earn in other ways by knowledge transfer to locals, jobs availability, investment by these pharm from rent, equipment purchase etc

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 6:01 pm]

📢 Topic 📢

RY, [2/7/2025 6:03 pm]

Ins companies providing healthcare med ins and it shd be sustainable biz also for them 

That explains why a need for co-ins and deductible as riders 

It is gd move by MOH to remove no more 100% coverage 

So as to ensure patients also have to co-pay out of pocket, and not just simply buy main/riders plans and just claimt every bills fm ins co 

It is also essential for ins co to have a gd team of panel of private doctors whom are responsible and dont overcharge 

For those patients who dont use insurance panel of Dr, then they may have some claiming limitation eg shorter pre and post and cap on claiming amt and etc 

If there is any private Dr that overcharged, then MOH may have the right to qns the Dr, and ins co may also de-list/remove such Dr fm their panel of Dr

RY, [2/7/2025 6:11 pm]

Dr shd be penalised for their overcharged, as part of their conduct of practice 

Similar to those GP Dr in recent news that mis-use the patients CHAS subsidy 

Imagine how can a tele-consult be less than 1min ? 

Just like MOM also has cap annually for MC and hospitalisation leave under the MOM law 

Otherwise lazy employees may just mis-use & simply get MC and absent fm work easily

RY, [2/7/2025 6:17 pm]

I unsure how MOH suggestion for not for profit private hospital works .....

Bec every biz needs to be make money in order to survive and pay for the operation

It is really how much money can the biz make ultimately

RY, [2/7/2025 6:26 pm]

Rem the 2008 sub-prime crisis, USA govt require to bail the financial institutions ?

But we know quite a lumpsum of the bailout $ went into these going-to-bankrupt financial institutions CEO remunerations instead  

Bec few of these institutions were too big and cant afford to close down .... 

I unsure what is the remuneration of SG private hospital CEO ... 

I hope these CEOs are not overpaid, and bec of this reasons, pte hospital charges are so high ....

RY, [2/7/2025 6:29 pm]

Many of SG well-known Dr are practising in pte hospitals, that may explain why some patients chosen pte hospital than public hospitals due to their preferred Dr

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 6:45 pm]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

RY, [2/7/2025 6:52 pm]

For healthcare to be affordable to the general public ~ 

1 MOH/Pharma Co/Patient/Ins Co/ have to work as a "team", as all these parties are co-related and interlinked ultimately 

2 MOH role is impt to set the rules/bencemark in fees/code of practice and etc eg Dr fees 

3 MOH also has to communicate with the pharma cos, so that even the expensive cancer drugs has cap in their costs, otherwise pharma cos in order to make high profits, they may charge as high as possible 

4 Ins co may offer more incentives to those patients that opt for public hospital treatment and own panel of Dr, rather than pte hospital

5 Claimt amt shd have a portion that the patient has to co-pay and not 100%, so that the patient may think thrice whenever they make any ins claimt, bec they themselves also has to co-pay out of pocket sametime - to reduce any mis-use of the med ins claimt by the patient also

6 maybe foreign patient that opt for private hospital, they may req to pay more than SG residents 

7 MOH has gd system to penalise those errant/mis-conduct Dr 

8 MOH also to work closely with ins co and make the premiums affordable, as the premiums are determined by the ins co ultimately 

9 MOH also has to work closely with all hospitals esp the private hospital, so that they wont overcharge/charge unnec - if ins co complaint any overcharge of fees, then MOH has the right to qns the pte hospitals too 

Ultimately whether ins premiums, hospital fees/charges and med costs and etc , it is all determined by the Dr/Hospital/Ins Co/Pharma Co and not patients themselves

RY, [2/7/2025 6:58 pm]

Another example 

One of my overseas friend came to SG as tourists and met with a not so serious accident 

Public hospital A&E Std charge

But when refer to pte hospital for further investigation, this pte Dr overcharge this foreign patient, as the consultation fees went into thousand, until my friend req the Dr to write a memo for the expensive charge, otherwise their travel ins may have prob claiming later 

This pte Dr simply take advantage and overcharge

REACH Singapore, [2/7/2025 7:01 pm]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====