REACH (Telegram) 50 - What are your views on Minister’s plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system?

(SK)

08 Jan 2025 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:13 AM]

Dear contributors,

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REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:16 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

Job seekers and employees will have greater protection against discrimination on grounds like age and nationality through a proposed law to ensure fairness in the workplace, Manpower Minister Dr Tan See Leng told Parliament on Jan 7.

At the same time, the Workplace Fairness Legislation (WFL) will retain the flexibility for employers to hire workers based on skills that support their business needs, he added.

💬 What are your thoughts on the Workplace Fairness Bill? Why more could be done to strengthen protection against workplace discrimination?

Dr Tan said that while Ministry of Manpower (MOM) surveys have shown declining workplace discrimination over the years, this should not be taken for granted. “This Workplace Fairness Bill has therefore been designed to improve protections against workplace discrimination, while preserving our fair and harmonious workplace norms.”

This is the first of two Bills on workplace fairness. A second Bill on how private employment claims can be made for workplace discrimination will be tabled later on. If passed, the legislation will be implemented sometime in 2026 or 2027.

MPs spoke in favour of a workplace anti-discrimination law and debated issues such as the scope of the bill, the need to tackle workplace ageism, how the bill puts local first and support for smaller firms to comply with the legislation.

📌 Why the bill does not cover all discrimination

For now, the Bill covers five categories of protected characteristics where there is “broad societal consensus”, said Dr Tan. Together, they account for more than 95 per cent of discrimination complaints received by the Tripartite Alliance for Fair and Progressive Employment Practices (TAFEP) and MOM, he said.

These include age and nationality – the top two causes of discrimination reported. A third category includes sex, marital status, pregnancy and caregiving responsibilities; the fourth covers the characteristics of race, religion and language ability; and the last encompasses disabilities and mental health conditions.

MP Ms Denise Phua called for the broadening of the definition of disability in the Bill, which now covers autism, intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities and sensory disabilities. This excludes individuals with learning disabilities like dyslexia and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, and conditions like cerebral palsy and multiple sclerosis, she said.

MP Mr Louis Chua criticised the Bill for limiting legislation to only certain characteristics.

“How can we confidently say that workplace discrimination of any form should not be tolerated, but yet some forms of discrimination are legal while others are not?” he asked, highlighting some types of discrimination that will not be covered, such as that based on physical medical conditions. 

Mr Patrick Tay, who is the assistant secretary-general of the National Trades Union Congress (NTUC), said outsourced workers and freelancers, including platform workers, may be an underserved segment of workers.

Mr Tay said the labour movement believes that no form of discrimination should be tolerated in the workplace. Although sexual orientation and gender identity or expression are not explicitly covered, any employer who runs afoul of the Tripartite Guidelines on Fair Employment Practices (TGFEP) should be investigated and can have enforcement actions taken against them, he said.

📌 Concerns over economic impact of ageism

In the debate, Mr Heng Chee How, who is NTUC deputy secretary-general, also emphasised the economic importance of leveraging the experience of older workers amid a shrinking labour force.

He called for employers to be more vigilant against ageist bias and other barriers that might affect older job seekers and workers.

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:16 AM]

📌 Putting locals first 

Foreigners are “critical complementary components” in many sectors of Singapore’s economy, and Workers’ Party (WP) chief and Leader of the Opposition Pritam Singh said the Bill correctly offers wide and significant protections to them, but is clear that employers should aim to recruit locals first.

Mr Singh said employers should not see this legislation as just an administrative process, or even as a burden. “It is far more important than that,” he said. “I would even go so far as to say that it is a critical piece of legislation with a view towards nation-building in the years to come, where many of our challenges will be domestic.”

📌 Help for small companies to comply

To help firms ease into the new requirements, small firms with fewer than 25 employees will be given more time to build up their capabilities before they need to comply with them. This will be reviewed five years after the law is implemented.

Dr Tan has said that MOM is working on a tripartite advisory for reasonable accommodations to raise awareness and provide practical guidance to employers.

He emphasised that workplace fairness legislation is not a “panacea”, but an “additional layer of protection” against frequently encountered forms of workplace discrimination. 

“It is a measured approach that seeks to preserve our current workplace norms, and guard against divisions in our workplaces and society,” he said.

👉 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/workplace-fairness-bill-legislation-platform-workers-4843371

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/mps-raise-concerns-over-indirect-discrimination-ageism-during-debate-on-workplace-fairness-bill

----

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:24 AM]

[ Poll : 1) Do you think the Workplace Fairness Bill adequately addresses workplace discrimination? Please share your reasons in the chats! ]

- Yes

- No

- Neutral

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 11:24 AM]

[ Poll : 2) Which of the five categories of protected characteristics outlined in the Bill are you most concerned about? Please share your reasons in the chats! ]

- Age discrimination

- Nationality

- Sex, marital status, pregnancy and caregiving responsibilities

- Race, religion and language ability

- Disability and mental health conditions

G, [8/1/2025 11:33 AM]

Received hardcopy letter for CDC voucher..

In this day and age, is there still a need for hardcopy?

If the letters cost 51 cents to mail and there are 1.3 million average households claiming CDC; that’s $663,000 on postal costs alone

There's still costs for customisation for these letters with names and address, cost of printing, cost of paper, cost of envelopes etc.

Mailing hardcopy notifications for govt handouts still the best use of taxpayer money?

Don't the PA already have records on which households would more likely require hardcopy mail and so just send hardcopy mails to those households instead?

G, [8/1/2025 11:37 AM]

What's the govt's posture on hiring older workers?

I've heard numerous anecdotes of workers from a certain age group being rejected or glossed over for positions despite possessing the necessary qualifications and experience

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 11:37 AM]

On mental health, some people may be suffering from mental issues that are not visible or classified under DSM-5, how do the government ensure that healthy mental health in the workplace should be protected ?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 11:43 AM]

1. Age discrimination for jobs is indeed an issue for those 50 years and above.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 11:48 AM]

2. Despite government persistent good effort to formulate policies to tackle age discrimination - it is still happening in various disguise forms that discriminate mature workers in getting jobs or terminate older workers from their jobs.

3. Or in a better place, older workers are make to take up contract job, demotion with lesser pay.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 11:54 AM]

3. Hence, I always encourage young workers to save half or at least 1/3 of their income monthly to safeguard themselves against mid career crisis and retirement by investing prudently in passive income the moment they start work.

4. This is to ensure that if mid career crisis hit, they will have at least passive income to tie them through their old age.

Gabriel, [8/1/2025 12:07 PM]

For those who are unfamiliar with the state of current affairs on this matter, can you highlight what the government's persistently "good" effort on policies to tackle age discrimination are?

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:08 PM]

There are still young people who cannot save at least 1/2 or 1/3 of their income after paying for daily necessities, then what can be done to help them ?

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:10 PM]

But how would we determine if is a valid 'daily necessities'?

E.g. aircon might be critical for some, not for others. Or even cars

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:11 PM]

I am talking about necessary for survival, like shelter, food, public transport etc.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:11 PM]

I would suggest ways for them to help themselves. Reskilling or upgrade comes to my mind.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:12 PM]

As i said 'necessary' is not a common understanding for all.

Aircon compulsory?

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:13 PM]

I already said survival, as in if it is not present the person will not even be able to survive.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:13 PM]

Eg. Formulating policies such as tgfep - tripartite guidelines for fair employment.

Mom and union investigating and arbitrating any reported job discrimination grievances cases.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:15 PM]

“Necessary” may not be a common understanding, but it is a fact that humans cannot even survive without some basic necessities, it is not up to interpretation.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:17 PM]

1. Well during my time, my starting salary is $1,600, I can still set aside 1/3 the moment I received my pay and put into the saving account vouching not to touch them.

2. As I got increase salaries and promoted along the years, I can set aside half the salary for savings.

3. When sufficient amount is set aside, can start investing the passive income.

4. It all depends on the determination and will of each individual - what is deem necessary expenses and what is extravagant.

5. Once a person set aside the savings and vouch not to touch them, you will always try to spend within what you have - and won't indulge in extravagant stuff.

6. People must have the "crisis mindset" - always prepared for rainy days or crisis hit.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:17 PM]

Now the times is a different story, wages are not keeping up with inflation, despite what the statistics and numbers indicate.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:18 PM]

I have seen people doing it, and it can be done.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 12:20 PM]

But still poverty, income inequality is a structural and institutional thing, which means there will forever be people that are still disadvantaged unless we restructure whole of society.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:23 PM]

1 piece of bread ok for some, other people still hungry. What's 'necessary for survival '?

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:23 PM]

Totally agree, it is dependent on what the worker is willing to sacrifice. Time, money, cigarettes, health etc

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:24 PM]

Eg. Of extravagant, every year go tour.

Eat must eat "atas food".

Travel take grabs or taxis or own cars instead of public transport.

Buy goods must buy designer goods.

At home turn on Aircon instead of high velocity fans.

Etc. (sedekit sedekit, lama lama banyak bukit).

If can cut down all these extravagant expenses and choose cheaper alternatives, sure can save alot and sufficient to accumulate passive income for mid career crisis and retirement.

Complemented by CPF Life.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 12:27 PM]

Back to the original topic, the current discrimination laws somewhat sufficient. But there are times where bias needs to exist?

Language requirement when most clients are malay speaking (business facilitation to close deals). Overweight workers as doctors (not having good impression to customers) etc

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:29 PM]

Why do I suggest this?

Because job discrimination against aged happens in smes, MNCs and even glcs.

I will not suggest civil service are doing it, but people do get move around - but not outright termination come 50 years and above.

G, [8/1/2025 12:35 PM]

Come I clap for you 👏 

For showcasing your personal achievements here

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:36 PM]

Better than always complaining and crying or blaming the government - instead of solving own problem.

G, [8/1/2025 12:36 PM]

Agree.. besides the usual nationality, age etc what's "discrimination" anyway?

Caleb, [8/1/2025 12:37 PM]

Can gov notify by singpass app.  If nv ready by 1 week then send hardcopy.

G, [8/1/2025 12:40 PM]

I remember your claim that on your 1 single income you could afford to pay off a 5 room HDB flat

So.. back then $1,600 very good ah?

Still claim you set aside 1/3.. means $1,100 can afford to live and pay off 5 room flat HDB mortgage?

Such was the cost of living back then! 

What's the equivalent of $1,600 today? Can that person still set aside 1/3 of the equivalent income afford a 5 room HDB flat and maintain a household living expense just on that 1 income?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:41 PM]

Can!

G, [8/1/2025 12:41 PM]

Show the sums please

On the equivalent of $1,600 salary today.  Set aside 1/3 for savings. Afford 5 room HDB mortgage and household living expense. Use 1 income only

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:43 PM]

No need to show to you.

Because all my close circle younger folks already doing it.

You solve your own problem.

In the past, time and again compute to prove you wrong.

Shouldn't spoonfeed you anymore.

G, [8/1/2025 12:45 PM]

You go on a rant about self discipline etc. then boast about your own discipline and achievements..

And claim your close circle younger folks already doing it.. 

Then when ask for calcs to back up your claim, u shy away..

Then you tell people to be disciplined for what? Not everyone is as disciplined and as knowledgeable as you claim yourself to be 

So if you could show your calculations, wouldn't that be helpful for others to emulate your disciplined ways?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 12:47 PM]

It does make a difference between a problem solver versus a complainer.

Problem solvers are resourceful to think out of the box to fix their own problem.

Complainers always complain and blame others, blame government.

Hence problem solvers usually do well in their careers and don't pose a problem to the society and don't always complain against the government.

Luckily all my close circles are problem solvers and not complainers.

G, [8/1/2025 12:49 PM]

Yes. You are a problem solver. 

You claim to solve something because you are disciplined

But when asked how, you say "you solve you own problems" and say other people complainers

Ok 👏

Your claims are doubtful at best

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 1:11 PM]

Dear Contributors, 

Let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion. 

It is everyone’s responsibility to make this online space a safe and conducive one for all contributors to share your views and feedback on national issues.

Please be reminded of the Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-telegram-terms 

Thank you. 

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:17 PM]

"Former manager becomes a hawker after getting retrenched, now selling S$2 laksa in Chinatown.

“I became a hawker after I gave up trying to look for a job. I thought I could withdraw my CPF at 55 [to live on], but I was only 50 when I got retrenched. No choice. I need money to survive,” said Bobby Lee."

 https://cnalifestyle.channelnewsasia.com/dining/asian-makanstall-chinatown-2-laksa-434226#:~:text=Former%20manager%20becomes,said%20Bobby%20Lee.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:18 PM]

An example of problem solver.

Retrench at 50 years old, turn crisis into opportunity.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]

Tbh when you are working and upgrading yourself you hardly save 1/3 of salary

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]

Need to be realistic

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:24 PM]

A short courses easily cost a few hundred

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:25 PM]

Can use skill future?

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:25 PM]

And the short course may not be immediate useful or actually useful

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:26 PM]

For people age 25 above

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:26 PM]

People below 25, how to save 1/3

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:28 PM]

After grad does not equivalent you know how to apply the skills

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:29 PM]

Especially guys went through army which let them not have a chance to apply the skills for 2 years before entering industry

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:30 PM]

Give you an example, an average graduates starting salary is $5,500 for a computer science graduates.

20% CPF take home pay $4,400.

Set aside 1/3 = $1,466.

Still got $2,933 for expenses.

For fresh graduates, you stay with your parents, so more than enough to spend.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:30 PM]

That is average uni grads. For poly grads?

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:31 PM]

2k-2.5k?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:31 PM]

A small family 4 person expenses $4,000 per month can survive relatively well.

One person $2,933 expenses can live very well.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:32 PM]

A bit tough.

But I will still set aside $800 as savings and spend the rest within my means.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:33 PM]

Remember you still got GST vouchers, CDC vouchers, u-save etc..

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:33 PM]

When I search for work a poly grad is 1.8k-2.5k before cpf

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:34 PM]

Try to upgrade to university degree.

Pay is higher.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:34 PM]

So I would also want to upgrade myself,so attending courses will cost thousands

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]

Try to get work experience while graduating from polytechnic.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]

No money go private

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:35 PM]

For the time being, tighten the belt.

Once graduate, you can recover and do better.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:37 PM]

I have a younger folk that come under this path.

He is graduating from university this year and I believe he will be able to get a better pay.

Hanny, [8/1/2025 1:39 PM]

Certain group of people prefer hard copy

G, [8/1/2025 1:46 PM]

Yup. It should be this way.. and not spam everyone and waste taxpayer money.

Only give hardcopy to those who require. And PA should already have the relevant data for who requires hardcopy

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 1:51 PM]

I don't think there is a common form across all agencies that states hard/soft copy preferences.

Then we need to decide default is hard or soft copy. Some would say aging population should default as hardcopy?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:51 PM]

Eg. $800 saving per month, include 13 months bonus, you will get $10,400 a year set aside for passive income investment.

Take up a 25 to 30 years saving endowment insurance plan that provide 4% to 6% interest income (come with guarantee and non-guarantee portion).

You can earn up to $18,720 interest at the end of maturity.

So if you work from 25 years old to 50 years old, and invest likewise every year, you can earn 6 figures interest income.

Also your salary will increase and your passive income set aside for prudent investment will grow.

So your retirement will be safeguarded (not even including your CPF Life).

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 1:52 PM]

Anyway, this hard or soft copy is not relevant to today's topic. I would say to bring it up another time

Daniel, [8/1/2025 1:52 PM]

This seems hardly relevant to the topic at hand.

Joomua Tng, [8/1/2025 1:55 PM]

this is an optimistic assumption and projection, mostly for above average income to higher income portion of population.

🍏, [8/1/2025 1:57 PM]

Forum: Get rid of smoking corners at coffee shops whose leases are expiring | The Straits Times

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-get-rid-of-smoking-corners-at-coffee-shops-whose-leases-are-expiring

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 1:58 PM]

Agree that this will only apply to middle high to higher income folks.

But lower income folks will still struggle.

🍏, [8/1/2025 1:58 PM]

We should really get rid of cigarette smoking at coffee shops. It has been years since initially rolled out in 2017. And families do have to eat at coffee shops from time to time with children breathing in second hand smoke.

Kim Heok Lim, [8/1/2025 1:59 PM]

Non-smokers hate smokers. Smokers complain insufficient areas to smoke after paying tobacco taxes

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:00 PM]

Btw this is not a projection.

Because people do set aside savings for such purpose and do in fact reap the benefits from such approach - especially among some older folks.

I am just sharing such good practices so that more people can adopt such practices and don't get caught in their mid career crisis.

Because tech disruption and career disruption will happen more frequently - looking at the horizon of more uncertainties in a more adverse geopolitical climate.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:09 PM]

And job discrimination against aged does occur in various disguise forms.

Though government do put in safeguard and guidelines to curb such aged job discrimination - business will always have ways to circumvent it.

Hence for individuals to cushion themselves against such mid career crisis - individuals will need to plan for themselves and their families not to be caught when it comes - because I witnessed this quite a number of cases throughout my lifetimes.

As problem solvers, we need to plan ahead for such rainy days - and not to be caught by surprises which I feel will occur more often with greater challenges ahead.

🍏, [8/1/2025 2:12 PM]

Assumption. I am referring to cigarette smoking and inconsiderateness in exposing young children to second hand cigarettes smoke.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 2:20 PM]

Back to the topic, individuals may have the responsibility to try to safeguard themselves from any form of discrimination, but that does not change the reality that discrimination of many forms is a structural and institutional issue, so what plans does the government have to educate society on discrimination so that society can shift to reduce stigma and be more accepting of others ?

G, [8/1/2025 2:24 PM]

👍 govt also needs to explain their hiring practices. Why people of older age groups get rejected for jobs which they are adequately qualified for, and they have the relevant experience and expertise

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:26 PM]

1. Whether business continue to make profit - and not think of ways to cut cost to remain afloat or maximizing their profits as their core principle - sacrificing the higher pay older folks who stay loyal to the companies.

2. Whether bosses and top management has a good heart and good conscience - treating every workers including their older folks like a family members instead of workers.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:29 PM]

1. During the earlier years, bosses treat all their workers especially older workers like their family members that go through thick and thin with the companies.

2. But with modern western mindset - everything is profit versus cost - even very profitable companies will look at high cost workers to chop.

Older workers fit this bill, and often got chop to maximize their profits and show shareholders how well they perform every year.

Steven Ong, [8/1/2025 2:33 PM]

All kinds of discrimination should be considered and enforcement need to send strong signals to curb unhealthy practices. Everyone should be given equal opportunity in this day and age if he/she willing to learn and contribute to the organisation and society-at-large. Whisperblowing should be highly encouraged to ensure operations can be audited and enforcement can be executed.

G, [8/1/2025 2:36 PM]

Hooliganism amongst political parties. Male PAP member/supporter allegedly harassing female PSP volunteer

https://mothership.sg/2025/01/pap-psp-harassment-bukit-gombak/

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:40 PM]

1. So in my opinion, as long as human heart and mindset don't change, regardless of how much effort put in by government to curb job discrimination - business still have a way to circumvent it.

2. Changing the heart and mindset will be more effective than focusing on policies alone.

Because no amount of policies or legislation can monitor or change a business conduct, if people's minds and heart don't change. 

(阳奉阴违 will be the outcome.) (Disguise form of conforming, but hidden ways of discriminating acts to avoid penalty).

3. As long as profit maximization and KPI remain the core principle for top management or bosses - job discrimination cannot be eradicated.

4. It begins with the bosses and top management heart and mind.

（要重組，要转型 - 从“心”开始）.

G, [8/1/2025 2:50 PM]

“Thus far, we have not uncovered any known threat actors based on the IP addresses that were used to make the people search queries between Dec 9 and 13.”

"However, the authorities are unable to identify the exact number of NRIC numbers disclosed as the Bizfile portal is not configured to track individual queries, Ms Indranee said in a ministerial statement delivered in response to a spate of parliamentary questions over the recent saga."

"The minister also noted that a security feature designed to distinguish between human users and computer bots in the portal’s search function “was not working as intended”, following a security review by ACRA and GovTech."

"More than 500,000 searches were made on a government business filing website over five days in December after news emerged that people's names and full National Registration Identity Card (NRIC) numbers could be found.

This was much higher than the usual 2,000 to 3,000 daily queries made on the Accounting and Corporate Regulatory Authority’s (ACRA) Bizfile website, said Second Minister for Finance Indranee Rajah in parliament on Wednesday (Jan 8)."

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/more-500000-searches-acra-bizfile-portal-dec-9-13-nric-indranee-4844871

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 2:50 PM]

1. Having say so, I am not suggesting compromising profit of companies and focus on charity even though older workers are not performing.

2. I am saying older workers could cost more but still productive and contributing very well to the companies.

3. Effort should be make by bosses and top management on how to make use of older workers knowledge and skillsets and a good mix with younger workers to grow the business and make higher profit for the companies.

3. Instead of focusing on the age of the workers in every yearly appraisal exercise to chop higher pay older workers.

4. A company that look after their workers like a family members instead of a dispensable pawn - will instill high morale and motivated workforce that can bring greater height to the companies.

5. This is the philosophy that I learn from my earlier elderly folks who are bosses and my relatives who are running listed companies.

6. Unfortunately, I see less of such philosophy in current corporate with western mindset of hire and fire, profit maximization at all cost.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:01 PM]

7. And companies that adopt the mindset of treating every of their workers including older workers as a family members still make very good profit and business are expanding and growing very well - due to a group of highly motivated and loyal workers. And these corporates are paying good dividends year after year to shareholders.

8. They are not losing out to corporates that adopt hire and fire, profit maximization, age discrimination against workers.

9. In fact I observed workers in these companies are happier workers, conduct themselves in a more friendly and cooperative work environment and are less likely to engage in toxic office politics for survival.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:03 PM]

I not totally agree with keeping older/senior workers at all cost. What would be the career progression for staff that join later, e.g. younger or change companies.

There's only a set number of manager positions, and company budget. Should the junior staff be asked to wait and sacrificed?

Instead of 'discrimination', base compensation and promotion on performance. I would say usually those who are sick or slower at work would negative impact their work performance.

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:04 PM]

An extreme case of keeping senior staff at all costs would be past japan economy, whereby junior staff wages are depressed because they cannot retrench senior staff

Khai Mun L., [8/1/2025 3:06 PM]

On other hand, another extreme would be china's 'forced' retirement when reach 55. Company would be encouraged to let senior staff go at that age.

Loss of good and experienced employees there

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:06 PM]

Older workers will still have to produce good performance.

Same as younger workers.

But age should not be the determination for discrimination.

If older and younger workers cannot perform, they will get poor appraisal and if cannot improve, they cannot stay.

But what happens if older workers perform consistently well, but slated to get terminated because of his age?

The justification is, I can hire 2 to 3 young workers with your pay.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:07 PM]

Eg. A mature worker win 2 awards for good performance.

Next year when he reached 55 years old, he was terminated.

How to account for such termination other than age discrimination?

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:17 PM]

There are creative ways to let younger workers move up and still keep good and experience older workers.

Eg. Promote younger workers to become managers.

Transform mature workers to be consultants, or mentors or advisors.

Or assign to handle ad-hoc projects that come on board.

See problem solvers can solve seemingly unsolvable issues.

Younger managers can bring new mindsets to management.

Older experience workers will still be able to keep a steady pair of hands to the business operations and can solve difficult business problems with their experience.

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 3:23 PM]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/acra-bizfile-nric-numbers-unmasked-josephine-teo-mddi-4844761

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:31 PM]

1. That's, younger workers can move up vertically, promoted to manager and take over the roles of older managers.

2. Older managers can move horizontally, doing the work of mentors, consultants, advisors, or handling ad-hoc projects.

3. Thinking aloud, young CEO can focus on transforming eg. A co-op into a full fledged corporate through merger or organic growth through new management.

4. Older managers can move horizontally to run a carve out segments (eg. A SBU) to continue to run as co-op.

5. This will vertically and horizontally grow a company rather than chop the old management and replace a new one with total different mindset (and throw out a viable existing co-op business that is still profitable run by the older managers).

For example

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 3:34 PM]

The synergy of this hybrid young + old management is

1 + 1 = 3.

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 4:18 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 4:51 PM]

良心企业。(Corporate with conscience).

人情味。(Human touch).

Where got job discrimination?

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 5:33 PM]

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/review-of-nric-unmasking-incident-likely-completed-in-feb-2025-findings-to-be-made-public

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:21 PM]

Skills atrophy, obsolescence likely behind decline in literacy proficiency among older adults in Singapore: Chan Chun Sing - CNA.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/adult-literacy-decline-older-singapore-adults-oecd-new-skills-education-4844781

It is necessary to continuously upskill and reskill throughout life, beyond the first 15 years of formal education, says Education Minister Chan Chun Sing. 

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [8/1/2025 6:24 PM]

I am not against old people, but in SG, generally the mindset of old people are that I am older thus I am more experienced in life, so why should I listen to the younger ones, which make them demand respect and become a bit closed-minded and not as willing to learn new skills to train their brain and keep their minds healthy etc.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:26 PM]

This one need to harmonize the younger ones and the older ones.

This is the most widely cited issue on young people working with older people.

Harmonizing both viewpoints are required with good listening skills.

Keeping an open mind is important.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:29 PM]

Most important, focus on the issues and not the person.

1. Listen to the viewpoints express by both group of people.

2. Analyse whether the viewpoints can solve work problems.

3. Then adopt the views to solve work problems regardless of whether it come from older or younger workers to get the job done.

4. These apply to all types of workers whether young or old.

5. Hence there will be more harmonizing and less frictions.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:38 PM]

A bit surprise by the OECD's report that English literacy skills can degrade with age.

1. I thought I can accept - as a worker enter the job market, technologies advance will cause older workers to be less relevance in new tech and hence tech obsolescence can set in.

Hence skill upgrade and reskill become necessary to remain relevant.

2. But English literacy degradation come as a surprise to me - because I thought many years of communication at work in English and report writing - should make older workers English literacy better due to constant practice.

But causing older worker to degrade in English literacy come as a surprise to me as it defy logic.

I thought it doesn't make sense.

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:44 PM]

All the more, OECD make up of many non-English speaking countries like Japan, South Korea, Germany, Italy, France etc.

How does Singapore that uses English language as its working language be worst off than some non-English speaking countries?

I can understand if OECD countries like UK, US, Australia Canada, New Zealand can have higher English literacy than Singapore.

But not those non-English speaking countries.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:44 PM]

Not really. In workplace especially in lower management people tend to use broken English and mother tongue

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:45 PM]

In army this is a very good example

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 6:46 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:46 PM]

Oh is it?

Maybe those white collar workers use more proficient english than Singlish.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:47 PM]

Yeah. But very small portion are actually the true white collar

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:49 PM]

If the company have hired a lot of china workers people tend to use Chinese to communicate. If your profession is a doctor you don't expect to speak high level of English to your patients. If not they don't understand.

Jun Ming, [8/1/2025 6:50 PM]

Unless your profession requires you to speak standard english such as lawyer

LCL (Danny 心), [8/1/2025 6:51 PM]

Depends on industries than.

RY, [8/1/2025 6:55 PM]

For age discrimination, I think our govt sector shd be leading as the model - in my opinion

RY, [8/1/2025 6:57 PM]

It is quite certain that there is age discrimination in workplace

As the HR will vet thru the resume most time and look at the age 1st in any job appln

REACH Singapore, [8/1/2025 6:59 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====

*平常心*

 

*平常心*

平常心，就是清净心。

活在当下。

有了清净心，就有了正念。

有了正念， 就有了正定。

有了正定， 就有了智慧。

有了智慧， 就有了慈悲。

有了慈悲， 就有了功德。

修平常心，就是修一辈子的功德。

功德圆满，涅槃生。

*Mindfulness application (at unpleasant or challenging moment)*

- Mindful 

- Mindful 

- Extra Mindful 

- 沉淀

- Analyse 

- Rationalise

心要直。

人要柔。

做人留一线。

日后好相见。

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSHsRUPk2/

Even Buddha also experience stray thoughts anchor in ignorance, greed, hatred, arrogance and scepticism.

Buddha teachings in how to handle distracting thoughts.

REACH (Telegram) 49 - What are your views on Minister’s plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system?

(SK)

03 Jan 2025 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 10:31 AM]

Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.30am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited. 

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment. 

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5. Let's protect each other's privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://www.reach.gov.sg/Participate/reach-telegram-group/REACH-Telegram-Group-Chat-Terms-of-Use/

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. 

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies. 

The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 10:36 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

In an interview with The Straits Times, Education Minister Chan Chun Sing noted the following plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system.

- A review of the DSA scheme is among MOE’s top priorities for 2025, to make it more accessible and with more varied learning options.

- Personalise learning for students through having a variety of pathways. 

- Students should be taught on how to use devices purposefully rather than shielding them from screens.

- Quality of teachers as a greater determinant of educational outcomes than class size.

💬 What are your views on Minister’s plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system?

📌 Review of DSA scheme among MOE’s top priorities for 2025

Mr Chan said that MOE’s plans include a review of the DSA process as part of efforts to “strengthen the middle” and “stretch the top”, offering more options and tailored pathways for students. The ongoing review will result in changes that aim to ensure that schools focus on students' development, the selection process remains objective and transparent, and DSA continues to be accessible. 

"We will insist and encourage that if you have a DSA system in your school, you must demonstrate development," Mr Chan said. The school needs to show that it is good at the activity not just because of its pre-selected students, but its ability to cultivate potential across the board.  

The selection process will look at identifying not just performance, but also potential, said Mr Chan. This ties in with increasing accessibility to students who may not have the same training opportunities as their peers, Mr Chan said, which is why the ministry will be “intensifying” various programmes in primary schools for teachers to help “talent spot”.

📌 Variety of pathways

Another priority for 2025 will be to "personalise" learning for students. There are many pathways for students to take, including work-study diplomas and degrees, and even customising their own majors in universities, Mr Chan said. 

For younger cohorts, the removal of exams was not aimed at solely removing stress but more to "create time and space for people to learn". More than content knowledge, students will also be pushed to learn more life skills and given confidence to be themselves and "know what makes (them) special", he said. 

📌 Teaching students how to use devices purposefully

Mr Chan said that Singapore does not take a binary view of device usage, and that this approach of not banning devices is more challenging, but more practical at the same time.

Despite potential dangers of unsupervised device consumption, students should not be prevented from using devices, but be taught how to use them purposefully, he said. 

“We have to guide them on how to use the device and when to use the device.” Schools already ban the use of mobile phones during lesson time, he said. Parents also need to manage usage of devices at home, while understanding their children’s needs. He further noted that educating all students on cyber wellness and cyber security is essential, so that they learn how to use devices responsibly.  

📌 Quality of teachers as a more crucial factor of educational outcomes than class size

Though some suggest that hiring more teachers would reduce class sizes, that does not guarantee good teacher quality, said Mr Chan. The number of teachers has declined over the years due to a slowdown in recruitment, but Mr Chan said the teacher to student ratio has improved, partly due to smaller student cohort sizes. 

Mr Chan said that Singapore’s focus is to maximise teachers’ capabilities and capacities, and one way to do this is to stop teaching to the average. He noted that subject-based banding allows teachers to be much more targeted in the way they deliver lessons and improves their teaching load. Educational technology can also be used to cater to students' different learning needs, Mr Chan said.

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 10:36 AM]

Additionally, he raised societal respect for teachers as another important aspect - where it is not only about establishing boundaries on communication, but also respecting the teachers’ professionalism, their time and personal space. 

🔗 https://str.sg/Agmf

🔗 https://str.sg/dCLp

🔗 https://str.sg/MTCL

----

G, [3/1/2025 10:57 AM]

@reachsg1 @reachsg2 @reachsg3 

This greeting is very disappointing. The word "Christmas" doesn't even appear, and there are no Christian/Catholic related visuals in your greeting for this religious holidays that Christians/Catholics celebrate.

Contrast this with your greetings for other religious holidays; the names of those other religious holidays actually appear in all your greetings (i.e. Deepavali, Hari Raya, Vesak etc) 

This the 3rd year I and many others have raised this (from previous REACH WhatsApp groups), and requested that Christians/Catholics be accorded the same level of respect from REACH in their religious holiday greetings. And each year you say you will do better.

Is this year's greeting a continued slight against Christians/ Catholics? 

Why the continued indifference / disrespect to Christians/Catholics?

Is it too much to expect THE govt feedback department in MDDI to take action on direct feedback on your religious holiday greetings communications on your feedback channel? 

Or does this have to be raised to your minister before action on the feedback be taken?

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 11:36 AM]

1. Notice that the Government is not focusing on one size fits all curriculum from secondary school all the way to University is the right move.

2. As today's working world is very dynamic, diverse, fast moving and need wide ranging of knowledge and diverse skills to cope with the fast changing requirements, students ability to customise their major, minor and subjects in schools and universities are valuable.

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 11:37 AM]

[ Poll : I agree that Minister Chan's upcoming plans and aspirations for Singapore's education system (i.e. changes to the DSA scheme, having a variety of pathways, purposeful use of devices and quality of teachers) will result in better outcomes for students. ]

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 11:41 AM]

Dear Contributors,

Please take a moment to participate in our polls 📊 and share your opinion 💭. The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

We look forward to hearing your thoughts on today’s topic!

Thank you.

Megan

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 11:42 AM]

1. Eg. AI research and development will require very strong foundation in STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) - coding skills, strong math & statistics foundation very important.

2. On top of that, candidate will require domain knowledge of each industry sectors to tailor AI model to the respective industries.

3. Hence not only deep knowledge and skillsets of the specialised skills are needed from the skilled workers, horizontal knowledge cutting across the industries are also needed.

G, [3/1/2025 11:42 AM]

We also look forward to your response to our highlighting of your continued less than adequate religious holiday greetings

Jun Ming, [3/1/2025 11:42 AM]

I like there's a variety of pathways. But... the number of vacancies are very limited. For eg. Ite DPP and higher nitech it's very competitive why don't the gov open more vacancies for students to learn?

Jun Ming, [3/1/2025 11:44 AM]

As the result some students may stuck in o levels which are not suited for them or end up in an undesirable course which may not suit them

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 11:47 AM]

Yep, in the working world, experience and skills are important, and although the Government’s stance is moving more towards not focusing on certificates, other benefits from Higher and Tertiary Education such as curiosity, critical thinking, networking with peers etc should not be discounted, thus it would be better if as many of the population are able to have higher and tertiary education, to gain the soft skills.

Jun Ming, [3/1/2025 11:47 AM]

I think some courses especially science only offered in ite college east. Would gov consider open courses in west and central?

Jun Ming, [3/1/2025 11:48 AM]

Not to say Singapore lack of nurse but only college east offer nursing

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 11:51 AM]

1. Additionally, AI workers are even expected to have some grounding in psychology, behavioural science, cognitive skills etc.

2. Eg. Reinforcement learning, neural network, machine learning etc emulating how a brain think, deep learning etc.

3. Computer vision processing of image, video; voice recognition etc.

4. Processing of bio health data eg. Pulse rate, heart beat, blood flow etc to establish biometric liveliness etc.

Steven Ong, [3/1/2025 12:07 PM]

We may want to take reference from Germany and Japan in terms of their educational pathways to encourage similar mindset as what MOE heading towards..

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:07 PM]

1. On top of that, AI developers developing robots, autonomous systems, drones - are expected to have grounding in electrical engineering and mechanical engineering.

2. Hence to summarise, an AI professional needs for diverse skillsets and knowledge is not an understatement.

3. Hence demand for AI professionals are very high and very short of such talents - hence high pay.

4. So the government making school curriculum diverse, allowing students to customise their major, minor and subjects come in timely - to meet the dynamic changing needs of the industries.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:19 PM]

As commented previously, to ensure biometric authentication is full proof - one of the technique is to establish "Biometric liveliness".

That is whether the person who login is a life person, the right DNA, biometric features - not a scammer, a dead person, a deepfake video, or a still image.

Hence, biometric liveliness such as fingerprint, palm print, vein, facial features etc are used.

And as we discussed, the dark web is busy harvesting biometric data from unsuspecting people and using 3D modelling, deepfake and realtime animation to emulate biometric liveliness.

So tackling online scamming is a continuous process and require diverse skillsets and knowledge to have a legs up against scammers.

Even biometric liveliness measures are not enough to protect people from being scam.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:20 PM]

"Dark Web Facial ID Farm Warning—Hackers Build Identity Fraud Database".

Do not give away your biometric data even if commercial firms pay for your biometric eg. your facial scan, fingerprint, palm print etc - because dark web hackers are harvesting your biometric data to hack into your banks etc in future.

Even biometric liveliness to determine if a real person login - can be compromise by 3D modelling, deepfake and realtime animation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2024/12/26/dark-web-face-id-farm-warning-as-hackers-build-identity-fraud-database/

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:27 PM]

1. Understand the logic of addiction to devices such as smartphone, tablet, laptop or PC to access social media and games.

2. But technologies are moving very fast and industries require workers to be proficient in using such devices to perform their work using that will greatly improve their productivity.

3. Hence schools, IHL and university shouldn't ban such devices but put in safeguard to prevent students from device addiction but yet able to exploit such devices to enhance their learning.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:40 PM]

1. I specially agree with the Minister emphasis on skillsets, knowledge based on project completion rather than test smart and exam smart.

2. More weightage should be based on the ability to complete a sizable individual project &/or group project.

3. Notice that some students put less weightage on project work but focus more on content so as to score well in test and exam - and mostly neglected the projects.

4. Nowadays, generative AI, Google and search engines are abundant - easily can churn out many content, information, and facts in minutes.

There is no need to memorise such content.

5. But doing project work will test the understanding of a student knowledge in that subject, how to apply the knowledge and bring it into fruition by developing projects that the industry wants and valued and able to exercise critical thinking.

6. Going forward, this should be the emphasis of our education system - to be work-smart, project-smart, not exam-smart.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 12:50 PM]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 12:52 PM]

Having say so, biometric authentication, biometric liveliness should not be the only authentication mechanism for financial transactions in an open internet.

It should also augmented with login password, digital token and other means via multi-factor authentication.

Also strong protection of biometric data become imperative - not to be stolen by hackers and scammers.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 1:10 PM]

1. One thing come to my mind.

2. Notice that population as a whole have very little knowledge and very weak in economics - to be able to understand :-

- how government policies are formulated, 

- why certain policies are needed, 

- why taxes are required (in which understanding of fiscal policy will be required),

- why inflation occurs, movement of exchange rate and interest rate to cushion the impact of inflation, how monetary policy works,

- how workers salaries are determined and the topics on productivity,

- microeconomics of demand and supply and macroeconomics,

- scarcity, opportunity cost

- comparative advantage.

3. Suggest that economic should be a mandatory subject for JC, polytechnic, ITE and University.

4. This will enable the larger educated population to have a better appreciation of how government policies work.

5. And feedback sessions to the government from the population will be more meaningful as population will be more enlightened on how public policies and government policies works and why such policies are necessary.

6. In fact every facet of our lives - touches Economics - whether housing, jobs, manufacturing, finances, healthcare etc are about demand and supply, pricing, exchange of labour, finances, taxes we pay eg. GST, income tax, property tax, corporate tax etc.

7. So making Economic a compulsory subject for higher secondary and IHLs will be extremely useful for the larger educated population to understand government policies and engage government in a more productive manner.

G, [3/1/2025 1:22 PM]

We also look forward to your response to our highlighting of your continued less than adequate religious Christian holiday greetings

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 1:25 PM]

1. And another important subject that should also be make compulsory for higher secondary and IHLs - should be financial management.

2. That is how much to set aside for savings once started work, how to grow their passive income, how to invest prudently, how to save for retirement, how to save for rainy days etc.

3. This will ensure our population is retirement ready very early the moment they start work.

4. And will be more prepared when career crisis hit, as tech and career disruption will be more frequent.

5. The more well prepared the population are in this life savings skills, the less the government will have to worry in indulging in social welfare policies as the population can be self sufficient.

6. And the less stress for the population on how to finance their retirement.

RY, [3/1/2025 1:25 PM]

I also felt that SG children lacks budgetting and financial skills 

Students may be guide from childhood how to diferentiate scams

So that they may grow up to be more vigilant/prudent in their  finances and spending and knowledge and etc

And many scams are happening and targetting to SG, since we are one of the richest country, and overall SG population lacks the vigilant and knowledge and fall prey to scammers easily 

Maybe MOE may include curriculum of financial aspects eg budgetting and etc in SG education system since young

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 1:48 PM]

Budgeting in SG Education System since early education is a good idea, for other Social Sciences such as Economics etc, how do we ensure that Students are being exposed to the myriad of theories so that they can have the knowledge and thinking skills to judge for themselves, and not sticking to the only narrative that is accepted by the Government ?

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 1:53 PM]

Economic is universal concept.

Not government narrative.

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 2:02 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 2:02 PM]

Universal in terms of ? I am sure people in the Middle Ages to the start of the Enlightenment Period don’t live in a Neo-Classical Economic System as we now do etc.

Daniel, [3/1/2025 2:07 PM]

You are aware that this is a one-way feefback channel, right? I think if you want a response, then this might not be the right place.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 2:08 PM]

Demand and supply is a universal concept.

Price is a universal concept.

Exchange of labour is a universal concept.

Macroeconomic is a universal concept.

Market economy and planned economy are universal concept.

It is taught by economists independent of politics and independent of government.

It is a concept of how people live, exchange goods, create wealth, earn a living independent of politics.

Government who don't apply the appropriate economic concept and principles will often result in a fail economy.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 2:09 PM]

Enlightenment period?

Not yet.

G, [3/1/2025 2:10 PM]

Not true. @reachsg1 did reply to previous years feedback regarding christian holidays directly in their WhatsApp groups.

It was through these groups that they made promises to do better and it wasn't their intention to slight Christians

G, [3/1/2025 2:13 PM]

The REACH admins replying through these groups is also chance for them to directly address concerns regarding their department without the need to escalate to internal higher authorities 

If this is not appreciated and they would prefer if their inadequate Christian holiday greetings be escalated to their bosses then so be it

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 2:27 PM]

During Stone Age, human hunt animals and no-trade.

Hunting animals at that time is universal concept.

Now in modern age, people use money, jobs, trade.

Hence Economic is now the universal concept of modern time.

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 2:46 PM]

I would use the term “Defining Features” etc, not “Universal”, to my understanding “Universal” is used to describe things like Gravity, which is objectively present since the Big Bang, and is a real phenomenon whether humans exist or not and does not change with the times.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 2:56 PM]

Well I am open to terms that accurately promote understanding.

Not a problem to change the term of reference or label for clarity and understanding.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:09 PM]

1. I am particularly concerned that democracy promote populist policies from government that help to win votes - for short term and immediate gratification but laden the country of future generations with long term sufferings and burden.

2. Eg. A democratic government to win votes, keep accumulating fiscal debt to the mammoth amount of $36 trillions dollars that in no way, future generations can finance - to please the voters and win elections without adhering to economic fundamental and prudent financial principles.

3. Print money (quantitative easing), even thinking of using speculative assets such as Bitcoins devoid of the economic fundamental of monetary policy to repay debt - that will impact credit rating of a country and devalue the worth of the currency.

4. Implement tariffs and sanctions to curb trade and defy sound macroeconomic fundamental of Exchange of Labor that determine optimal pricing.

5. Curb free flow of talents that will make a country competitive.

6. Curb investment and export of goods in the name of national security.

And many protectionists measure that contradict sound economic principles and financial fundamental - is a sure way of making the national economy, global economy fails - and a hotbed that promotes conflict and confrontation domestically and between countries.

Hence educating the entire population on sound economic concept - is a good way to ensure population are enlightened to how and why government policies are implemented.

This will prevent democratic system promoting populist sentiment due to ignorance that induce immediate gratification at the expense of long term sound economic and financial fundamental - a burden to be inherited by all our future descendants and young generations.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:11 PM]

1. Current policies that benefit the ageing at the expense of young is populist no hope for future

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:11 PM]

Huh?

Example of such policies?

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:12 PM]

Idk but for some reason, young people cant have the same opportunities in housing as in the past

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:12 PM]

What goes up cannot go down

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:13 PM]

I thought now government allow single to own at least a 3 room HDB flat?

Previously not allow.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:14 PM]

Even couple find it hard get bto

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:14 PM]

My uncle drive grab cannot even get grant for single hdb and cannot afford afford whatever is out there

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:15 PM]

If not choosy can get one.

Also SBF balance flat for those who need immediate flat to marry can get quite easily.

My nephew and nieces got their flats through SBF.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:16 PM]

I was looking for sbf flat. I see like not available these days

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:16 PM]

Is there a different website to look?

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:17 PM]

Don't know, got to find out why no grants.

I thought grant is a sure get feature for those who apply for flats.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:17 PM]

Probably something weird in system

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:17 PM]

I think call up HDB.

SBF abundant.

Sure get one - if not choosy.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:17 PM]

I check he already report tax to iras but for some reason the system cannot see

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:18 PM]

Oh call up instead of online?

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:18 PM]

Wah i try to get appt with hdb, cannot find one

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:19 PM]

Go to HDB hub toa payoh to check with the officers.

Sometimes website may not give you all the right answers.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:19 PM]

Its like they trying to divert everyone to chatbot and other auto stuff without thinking some need case by case

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:19 PM]

Can call their hotlines to book an appointment.

Don't use their website.

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:20 PM]

I saw people queuing in HDB hub for queue number.

Adam, [3/1/2025 3:21 PM]

Ok ill try help my family. Must really talk to a person

LCL (Danny 心), [3/1/2025 3:21 PM]

Try going down to the HDB hub.

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 4:00 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 5:03 PM]

Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

💬 What are your views on Minister’s plans and aspirations for Singapore’s education system?

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Do also share your opinion by participating in our polls! The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

Thank you!

Megan 😊

G, [3/1/2025 5:10 PM]

Will there be any response to our highlighting of your continued less than adequate religious Christian holiday greeting?

Why the slight against Christians in your religious holiday greetings?

G, [3/1/2025 5:12 PM]

e.g. This is your greetings to those of the Hindu faith

The name of the religious holiday is shown

RY, [3/1/2025 5:13 PM]

Thought today's discussion is about SG education system ......

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 5:16 PM]

Holiday Greetings, Birthdays etc are supposed to be out of good will ? I don’t think the Government have an obligation to extend greetings to every single Religions’ Holidays ?

🌹 𝐘𝐞𝐰 𝐇𝐰𝐞𝐞 𝐎𝐧𝐠, [3/1/2025 5:21 PM]

ANW, I heard from many of my Uni Friends, maybe Poly Students also feel similarly, about having to take many General Education modules that they feel is not so related to their Majors and Specialisations, so maybe General Education modules can still be present, but to contextualise them to be more related, relevant and integral to the different Majors and Specialisations ?

G, [3/1/2025 5:55 PM]

Yet somehow @reachsg have continued their slight against Christians over the years.

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 6:02 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

RY, [3/1/2025 6:25 PM]

I do concur smaller size class per teacher ratio, may bring more quality teaching also

RY, [3/1/2025 6:32 PM]

Overall, parents in SG do much show respect to their children teachers 

In fact we do have quality teachers in SG teaching, as SG education is one of the best in the world

As SG students do achieve one of the top 3 in world competitions 

And most teachers are quite passionate in their teaching career in my opinion

Though they are not highest paid eg Aussie, but SG teachers remumeration are considered well paid with career progression

RY, [3/1/2025 6:36 PM]

Not forgetting those handicapped children education

MOE should also focus more on the education in special needs children, as SG Govt promoting a more inclusive society 

And this vulnerable group should also be taken care of sametime, so that they may integrate with society when they grow up later

RY, [3/1/2025 6:40 PM]

In fact, SG education system has much improved over the years, compared to my era 

From "spoon-feeding" to 'thinking of the box" creative mindset type of education

Dr. Goh, [3/1/2025 6:43 PM]

The old system of gep was flawed anyway. Can be gamed, and spends a lot more resources on kids of parents who can afford to pay to win, since their classes are way smaller and content is taught earlier.

Dr. Goh, [3/1/2025 6:44 PM]

Class size makes a huge difference to quality of education. Otherwise why do parents pay to send kids for tuition and insist on small class sizes and other requirements?

Dr. Goh, [3/1/2025 6:45 PM]

For DSA it is more nurture than nature. Another pay to win scheme. You can't expect the talent of future tennis champions to be honed for DSA without cold hard cash.

Dr. Goh, [3/1/2025 6:46 PM]

If really serious about spotting talents from young，spend the money on school resources, make sure kids can access as many options as possible. That is how u find real talents.

RY, [3/1/2025 6:47 PM]

However I also notice that the chinese language standard of today students are not as good compare to my era 

I unsure why the drop of chinese (mother-tongue language) standard ...

Maybe MOE may try to further improve on the learning of "mother-tongue" language

As it is a language also, and it is as essential as english language too

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 6:47 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

RY, [3/1/2025 6:51 PM]

I am glad to see the good move by MOE strategy from a more "academic focus" to a more "learning focus", with lesser exams for students 

And sametime trying to instill this mindset to students-parents also 

Learning should be happy and enjoyable process for children

RY, [3/1/2025 6:53 PM]

Beside academic, different kids may have different talents eg non-academic like sports/music and etc 

MOE may try to scout such talents fm the children and let them nurture towards their talents

RY, [3/1/2025 6:56 PM]

MOE may also further study Israel type of education system, which promote more entrepreneurship after their basic 10yr education, rather than straight to University tertiary education

RY, [3/1/2025 6:59 PM]

Thanks Megan for starting this discussion also to voice our views 🙏

RY, [3/1/2025 6:59 PM]

Gd Evening everybody !

REACH Singapore, [3/1/2025 7:01 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

====

佛 versus 玉王大帝

31 Dec 2024

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS6S6wMFm/ 

@Babe:道教 - 提倡 道，阴阳，乾坤 - 被境界 所束缚。谋福报。

境界只达 天界 - 不能证涅槃 - 空的境界。、

@Babe:佛 - 证空，不起心动念。不生不灭。

超越 天界。

@Babe:天道 - 提倡天条，权力。职管赏罚 - 不得 证空。

佛 提倡因果 - 不谋 权力 - 证空。

@Babe: 佛证 - 四大皆空 （风水火土），五蕴皆空 （色受想行识）- 不生不灭。圆满究竟。

道提倡 - 求富，求福，求平安，不能放下 世间法 - 天界有生灭 - 不了义，不圆满。

@Babe: 道 - 我执 （极重）- 盛满的茶杯还能盛无量的智慧和慈悲吗？

佛 - 无我执 （超凡人圣）

@Babe: 我执不空，涅槃不达. (Strong attachment to Ego - Emptiness unreachable. Enlightenment cannot be attained).

@Babe: 玉王大帝 执管 三界 （欲界，色界，出色界天）- desire planes, form heavenly plane, formless heavenly plane.

佛 - 跳出三界 (attain out of 3 planes of existence) (Nirvana Emptiness - Not physical plane of existence 涅槃 空 不生不灭。）

@Babe:@Babe:道教 (Taoism) - 提倡 道 (advocate Tao)，阴阳 (Ying Yang)，乾坤 - 被境界 (State of Existence) 所束缚 (bounded by State of Existence)。谋福报 (indulgence in sensual desire, prosperity, wealth)。

境界只达 天界 (Attainment reaches Heavenly Realm of Existence) - 不能证涅槃 - 空的境界(Unable to attain Emptiness of Nirvana - the ultimate root of existence) 。、

@Babe:佛 (Buddha) - 证空 (Attain Emptiness - 4 Great Element Emptiness (Physical), 5 Mental Aggregate Emptiness (Mental))，不起心动念 (No arising of stray thoughts)。不生不灭 (No birth, No death - Eternal Bliss)。

超越 天界 (Exceed all Heavenly Realms albeit All Realms of Existence)。

@Babe:天道 (Taoism) - 提倡天条 (Advocate Heavenly Law)，权力 (Heavenly Authority and Power)。职管赏罚 (Administer Rewards and Punishment) - 不得 证空 (Unable to attain Ultimate Emptiness - due to strong attachment to Ego, Heavenly Law, Authority, Power, Rewards and Punishment)。

佛 (Buddha) 提倡因果 (Advocate Universal Law of Karma - "You reap what you sow" - Individual determine own destiny (to reap reward or punishment) through "Cause and Effect") - 不谋 权力 (Not Administering Reward and Punishment, Not hunger for Authority, Power) - 证空 (Attain Universal Emptiness - due to "Not Attachment" or Desires for Power。

@Babe: 佛证 - 四大皆空 （风水火土），五蕴皆空 （色受想行识）(Attain Emptiness - 4 Great Element Emptiness - Wind, Water, Temperature, Matter (Physical), 5 Mental Aggregate Emptiness - 5 sense consciousness, feelings, perception, judgement, mental formation (Mental))- 不生不灭。圆满究竟 (No Birth, No Death) (Ultimate Perfection of Attainment)。

道提倡 (Taoism advocate) - 求富，求福，求平安，不能放下 世间法 (seeking wealth, prosperity, peace, unable to let go of mundane livings) - 天界有生灭 (Various Heavenly Realms have its respective lifespan - some extremely long that give the false perception of infinity) - 不了义，不圆满 (But it is not the Ultimate Perfection of Infinite Blissful Existence)。

@Babe: 道 (Taoism) - 我执 （极重）(Extremely Strong Attachment of Ego) - 盛满的茶杯还能盛无量的智慧和慈悲吗？(When a cup is full (Strong Ego), how to accomodate boundless infinite Wisdom and Compassion?)

佛 (Buddha) - 无我执 (Attain "No-Self", "No Ego"（超凡人圣）- Transformation of Mundane to Supramundane Nirvana.

@Babe: 我执不空，涅槃不达. (Strong attachment to Ego - Emptiness unreachable. Enlightenment cannot be attained).

@Babe: 玉王大帝 (Taoism Heavenly God Emperor) 执管 三界 （欲界，色界，出色界天）- administer the Sensual Desire planes (Hell, Hungry Ghost, Animal, Human, Asura and Sensual Desire Heavenlyy Plane Realm), Form Heavenly plane, Formless Heavenly plane.

佛 (Buddha) - 跳出三界 (attain out of 3 planes of existence) (Nirvana Emptiness - Not physical plane of existence 涅槃 空 不生不灭。(No Birth, No Death). 

The Origin of "Everything".

REACH (Telegram) 48 - What are your thoughts on the ACRA incident and the move towards changing how NRIC numbers are used?

(SK)

20 Dec 2024 (10am - 7pm)

REACH (Telegram)

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 7:45 AM]

Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 8am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited. 

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment. 

4. No need to repeat your comment or in differnet forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time. 

5. Let's protect each other's privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://www.reach.gov.sg/Participate/reach-telegram-group/REACH-Telegram-Group-Chat-Terms-of-Use/

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. 

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies. 

The topic will be posted shortly. 

Thank you. 

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 8:01 AM]

📢 Topic 📢

In a press conference on 19 Dec, Minister for Digital Development and Information Josephine Teo, Second Minister for Finance Indranee Rajah and ACRA chief executive Chia-Tern Huey Min apologised for the anxiety caused regarding the unmasking of NRIC numbers on ACRA's Bizfile portal.

They also assured Singaporeans that the Government was taking the public’s concerns on the matter seriously, clarified how the lapse had occurred and explained the Government's direction regarding the treatment of NRIC numbers in the future.   

💬 What are your thoughts on the ACRA incident and the move towards changing how NRIC numbers are used?

📌 How the Bizfile Incident Occurred and Moving Forward

ACRA chief executive Chia-Tern said the authority had misunderstood an MDDI circular issued earlier to government agencies to cease any planned use of masked NRIC numbers in new business processes and services.

It had taken this to mean that it should unmask NRIC numbers in its new portal, for example, rendering *****456A as S0123456A.

“This was a mistake on ACRA’s part and I apologise for this. Our oversight has caused anxiety and confusion to the public,” she said.

The search function in question was disabled on Dec 13 night, and a new version will be launched next week with search results that do not show any NRIC numbers.

Users who want to view NRIC numbers and other information of people in ACRA's Bizfile directory will have to pay S$33 (US$24) for each profile.

📌 Disclosure of NRIC

The Government had intended for this move away from the use of masked NRIC numbers to first be a within-government effort, such as in cross-agency functions, said Mrs Teo.

This would improve efficiency and also address a false sense of security regarding the numbers within the Government itself.

The ministry knew that changing mindsets would have to be done over a period of time, and a major effort would be needed to help Singaporeans understand the risks, due to longstanding practices, said Mrs Teo.

Within the government, some steps to do this had already been taken. Agencies were instructed to stop using NRIC numbers as a password or to prove someone is who he claims to be.

The ministry had also made plans for a public education campaign covering three broad areas. These include the risks currently faced with NRIC numbers being used improperly, as well as how Singaporeans can better protect themselves and organisations can change their incorrect practices.

Organisations and individuals that have been careful and responsible in how they collect and use NRIC numbers should continue with their current practices.

Those who are using NRIC numbers – full or partial – as a password or authenticator, should stop as soon as possible.

“We are not making drastic overnight changes. We do, however, need to move decisively to phase out the incorrect uses of the NRIC number, the sooner, the better,” said Mrs Teo.

👉🏼 [ST] Govt apologises for Acra lapse, will accelerate efforts to educate public on proper NRIC use: https://str.sg/kvrR

👉🏼 [ST] Misunderstanding of internal govt circular led to unmasking of NRIC numbers on Bizfile: Acra: https://str.sg/bjRG

👉🏼 [CNA] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/nric-unmasking-acra-josephine-teo-apologises-confusion-anxiety-4816066

👉🏼 [CNA] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/acra-bizfile-search-nric-numbers-masking-restore-4816006

----

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 8:10 AM]

[ Poll : 1) The response to the incident is adequate and timely. Please elaborate on your views in the chat. ]

- Agree

- Neutral

- Disagree

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 8:10 AM]

[ Poll : 2) I understand why masked NRICs are slowly being phased out. ]

- Yes

- Unsure 

- No

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 10:01 AM]

Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR from you!

💬 What are your thoughts on the ACRA incident and the move towards changing how NRIC numbers are used?

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Do also share your opinion by participating in our polls! The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

Thank you!

Megan 😊

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 10:50 AM]

NRIC is tagged along with other information such as where you stay etc. It should not be revealed easily as it cause privacy issues. 

I agree that it should not be use as authenticator but it should not be no restrictions on getting the ic number due to information tagged along and potential misuse. For eg. In army for sensitive information they ask us to shout NRIC rank and name which I feel that it should not be the case.

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 10:51 AM]

Some people NRIC very easy remember. Like my nric a lot of same numbers

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 10:54 AM]

On the other hand I also don't really care to use nric as password for some not so important account such as my school portal as it's only my horrible grades and assignments

Steven Ong, [20/12/2024 11:38 AM]

IMO, there should a choice for the individual to decide for himself/herself to disclose personal info to the public, similar to how social media allow users to decide, even when NRIC is declared as 'non-sensitive' by Gov.

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 12:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

Moses Kor kwang loong, [20/12/2024 1:23 PM]

Maybe can explain further

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 2:01 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 2:01 PM]

Dear Contributors,

We want to HEAR MORE from you!

💬 What are your thoughts on the ACRA incident and the move towards changing how NRIC numbers are used?

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Do also share your opinion by participating in our polls! The poll questions are pinned for easy reference, and your vote is anonymous.

Thank you!

Megan 😊

G, [20/12/2024 2:11 PM]

Sounds very amateurish with this "misunderstanding" of a circular 

Looks like this "misunderstanding" has exposed Singaporeans more to the threat of having their personal data being used by scammers.

G, [20/12/2024 2:12 PM]

Why did it take so long before the ministers did this press conference?

G, [20/12/2024 2:15 PM]

Now that this 4G PAP govt has exposed Singaporeans to the risk of personal data being extracted (possibly for scams) what's their solution to eliminate future risks? 

What's their solution for Singaporeans who's personal data have been retrieved?

Do they know which Singaporeans' personal data were extracted?

They need to update Singaporeans on the extent of personal data extractions during the vulnerable window

Joomua Tng, [20/12/2024 2:16 PM]

it is a mistake to say misunderstanding.

just need to say it is a mistake on the part where the agnecy should wait for public education on the issue then implement the policy..........

G, [20/12/2024 2:16 PM]

This feels like govt leaders throwing their staff under the bus when mistakes were made, to appease Singaporeans

G, [20/12/2024 2:18 PM]

It does not feel good to know that actions from this 4G PAP have resulted in our personal data protection being breached by the very govt that put up this protection in the first place

G, [20/12/2024 2:22 PM]

The more this govt tries to explain away their mistake, and try to "educate" Singaporeans on their NRIC, the more it sounds like "rules for thee, but not for me"

Joomua Tng, [20/12/2024 2:24 PM]

The government should do the public education first the explaining the reason and rationale of why NRIC no longer considered as sensitive information.

1.) should discuss with corporations and companies...when NRIC is no longer sensitive information, how or what the corporation and companies should do in order to verify the authenticity of any person. especially through online or telephone..

2.) what other methods to authenticate a person?

the assumption of using NRIC as authentication has be around for decades...which is why without first educating and explaining to the public the reason and rationale...you will get a backlash from the public.

Human is animal of habits and emotions. Not all can override their emotions and habits and consider deepy into the issue.

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 2:32 PM]

I want to ask is there any form of authentication in acra before the green light is given to proceed the searches of nric

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 2:34 PM]

Is there any mechanisms in the gov to prevent such mistakes happening

Jun Ming, [20/12/2024 2:39 PM]

Cause I think it is common sense not to publish people's private information through searches. And I understand that this happens on a Saturday so things may have finalised on the Friday

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 3:16 PM]

*Analysing the response of the unmasking of NRIC number*

1. Looking at the reactions of the participants about the revealing of NRIC number saga, I feel that the overwhelming negative responses are fuel by :-

a. Psychological fears - as old habit die hard (being subject to many years of belief that NRIC number are used for identification and authentication (as adopted by some enterprises - be it public and private).

b. Social perspective with the proliferation of social media platform that can post people's privacy information, pictures and videos onto the social media

c. Desire for privacy

d. Proliferation of scams - that can lead unsuspecting victims to fall for scam - as scammers are mastery in social engineering to fool victims.

2. This is despite the fact that many IT professionals know that NRIC numbers are not safe or foolproof - to be used as authentication mechanism - as NRIC numbers are known to some strangers and can be "reverse engineered" to reveal its algorithm and derive the NRIC numbers with some known parameters.

3. It didn't help when trusted enterprises such as polyclinics, hospitals, banks, financial companies etc uses NRIC number to verify a person's identity.

4. Hence, to uproot the people's habit or psychological fear to keep their NRIC number private - will require a lengthy and convincing approaches to alleviate people's belief that revealing their NRIC number will not compromise their well-being and put them at scammer risk through social engineeing (as uniquely identified a particular person can also pull out the personal information such as names, date of birth, address, telephone number, sex, the schools they attended, university they attended, workplace etc).

5. So I guess, alot of work need to be done - because privacy are valued by many people.

6. I have no doubt that NRIC number should not be used as authentication to complete financial transaction and other transactions --- because NRIC number is not safe.

7. But revealing NRIC number will need more effort - to address the psychological fear, social perspective and most important, not allowing NRIC number to pull out a person's other privacy information such as name, address, telephone number etc - that can be misused by hostile actors to harass the victims.

For example, we have been receiving scammers call, scammers message, even cold call from salesman eg. insurance agents, property agents, and other salesman --- even wonder how they get our telephone number and other private information.

G, [20/12/2024 3:18 PM]

It's one thing for individuals to safe guard their identity and personal information. 

It's another for govt entities to treat individuals' personal information so casually and flippantly

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:20 PM]

I was just reading this article - https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/misunderstanding-of-internal-govt-circular-led-to-unmasking-of-nric-numbers-on-bizfile-acra

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:20 PM]

Acra chief executive Chia-Tern Huey Min said staff from her agency had “interpreted the requirements to cease the use of masked NRIC numbers as needing to unmask the numbers in our new Bizfile portal”.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:21 PM]

This whole NRIC unmasking issue really highlights how a single misstep in communication can spiral into public distrust.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:21 PM]

The government’s original intent to shift away from using NRIC numbers for authentication was a good move, after all, data privacy and security are big concerns these days.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:22 PM]

But ACRA’s misunderstanding of that directive, resulting in full NRIC numbers being publicly accessible, feels like a serious oversight that could have been avoided with clearer instructions and better internal processes.

G, [20/12/2024 3:22 PM]

People put in effort to protect themselves and their personal information, especially after they heeded PDPA/PDPC guidelines. 

After this episode, 4G PAP is effectively telling us:

Protect for what, what you have is not worth protecting. In fact, I have put up your personal information for just $33! That whole NRIC episode was just an early  Christmas giveaway. After this, need to pay $33 again

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:23 PM]

For me, this reflects a broader issue: when it comes to handling sensitive data, trust is everything. We expect our systems and agencies to safeguard such information, and any lapse—intentional or not—damages that trust.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:24 PM]

The apology and immediate action by ACRA to fix the error are necessary, but it also raises questions about how much effort goes into ensuring such directives are well understood before they’re implemented.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:25 PM]

This is a lesson in the importance of clarity. Moving forward, I hope they’ll prioritize proper coordination to avoid similar incidents.

Khairil Baharudin, [20/12/2024 3:25 PM]

It’s not just about fixing the mistake - it’s about rebuilding confidence in how our personal data is managed from now on.

G, [20/12/2024 3:26 PM]

I think it is clear as day that NRIC is to be used as an identifier rather than authenticator. 

It is right, you ask me to identify myself, I say I am xxx, you ask for me last 4 digits of my NRIC to match my name to those last 4 digits, I am identified as the person I claim myself to be.

To authenticate, you ask me to key in my 7 digit pin or ask me my mother's name, dog's name etc. Data that I have input in your system to help you authenticate my identity.

Correct, its clear as day.

What does the above have anything to do with the government letting people have access to my full and NRIC number, just because the NRIC is not the authenticator but only the identifier?  

Nothing.

I don't even tell you my name if I don't need to; because it is my right and prerogative to decide whom I want to share my name with, and its my name, I decide right?

G, [20/12/2024 3:34 PM]

PDPC's current guidelines on NRIC:

"The Singapore National Registration Identification Card (“NRIC”) number is a unique identifier assigned by the Singapore Government to Singapore citizens and permanent residents of registrable age under the National Registration Act. It is often used for transactions with the Government as well as in commercial transactions. The NRIC number of an individual is considered personal data as the individual can be identified from the unique sequence of numbers and letters. "

"As the NRIC number is a permanent and irreplaceable identifier which can potentially be used to unlock large amounts of information relating to the individual, the collection, use and disclosure of an individual’s NRIC number is of special concern. Indiscriminate or negligent handling of NRIC numbers increases the risk of unintended disclosure with the result that NRIC numbers may be obtained and used for illegal activities such as identity theft and fraud. The retention of an individual’s physical NRIC is also of concern. The physical NRIC not only contains the individual’s NRIC number, but also other personal data, such as the individual’s full name, photograph, thumbprint and residential address."

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 3:49 PM]

My close friend comments:-

The scariest thing about revealing nric is that half of my Singpass authentication is lost.

More and more establishments are using Singpass for authentication. Once Singpass password is breached, we are all very vulnerable.

But then again, when we avoid using nric number for personal identification, establishments switch to handphone numbers for identification.  Think about it, it is equally scary. 

Another eg. Gov stopoed establishments from sending links on sms. A move to protect its people from inadvertently falling prey to malicious links. Then? I receive them on whatsapp to click on links for ....

道高一尺，魔高一丈。

We have to run faster than the devil. 

Lets help to give ideas on what to use for personal identification. We have to help protect ourselves..

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 3:51 PM]

I have checked:-

Singpass login come in 2 forms:-

1. Singpass QR code - digital token.

2. Singpass login that uses NRIC number and retrieval of password using NRIC number if forget password.

G, [20/12/2024 3:51 PM]

Does this risk get eliminated by whatever education campaign this 4G PAP wants to do to educate Singaporeans on their NRICs, and the definitions of "identification / verification / authorisation"?

What is being done about the govt's own "indiscriminate or negligent" handling of NRIC numbers?

G, [20/12/2024 3:55 PM]

Link to the current guidelines 👇

https://www.pdpc.gov.sg/-/media/Files/PDPC/PDF-Files/Advisory-Guidelines/Advisory-Guidelines-for-NRIC-Numbers---310818.pdf

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 4:00 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

G, [20/12/2024 4:07 PM]

Why is it "psychological fear"?

How does revealing NRIC NOT compromise people's well being and put them at scammer risk through social engineering?

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 4:12 PM]

Hence the 1st thing that the government need to phase out is Singpass password login using NRIC number.

As well as phasing out using NRIC number to reset or retrieve Singpass password.

G, [20/12/2024 4:28 PM]

Privacy and personal security

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 4:28 PM]

As long as more public enterprises and private enterprises root out using NRIC number for identifier and authenticator, then the timing is right to unmask the NRIC number.

Because NRIC number no longer preoccupied and implant into people's memory that NRIC number is the defacto important information to safeguard.

Psychologically, it will fade from people's cognitive process of associating NRIC number to our identifier and authenticator.

Only then, habitual attachment to the need to safeguard nric number can be slowly uprooted - and people can slowly accept NRIC number as our individual name.

It is a lengthy process because mental, cognitive habit - is a strong psychological attachment that take deliberate process to uproot.

G, [20/12/2024 4:30 PM]

AND delink NRIC from everything we know it today because:

"As the NRIC number is a permanent and irreplaceable identifier which can potentially be used to unlock large amounts of information relating to the individual, the collection, use and disclosure of an individual’s NRIC number is of special concern. Indiscriminate or negligent handling of NRIC numbers increases the risk of unintended disclosure with the result that NRIC numbers may be obtained and used for illegal activities such as identity theft and fraud. "

G, [20/12/2024 4:32 PM]

NRIC is linked to our:

1. CPF

2. TAX

3. Property

4. Bank

5. Paynow

6. Singpass

7. SAF obligations (for men)

etc

etc

etc

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 4:37 PM]

1. Hence biometric data become the best identifier and authenticator of a person's identity and authentication.

2. But looking at the horizon of the rapid development of quantum computing with some States able to build quantum computers to compute millions of quantum bits (notably US and China) - the chances of quantum computing cracking all current cryptography and cybersecurity are getting higher.

3. Hence using biometric data is able to make NRIC number redundant but consideration to the cybersecurity in protecting the integrity of biometric data become especially critical.

4. Hence even though I understand employing biometric can immediately make NRIC number saga redundant - but my hesitation is what quantum computing and AI deepfake can do to biometric authentication.

5. Certainly need the massive government resources as well as worldwide IT expertise to look deep into biometric adoption, the risk pose by AI deepfake and deep learning as well as the worrisome computing power of quantum computing that can crack all current cybersecurity measures.

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 4:46 PM]

1. Of course deploying biometric liveliness, contextual information, geolocation data, personal health biodata (pulses, heart rate, eye movement etc) as discuss with your Ministry digital staff - can overcome AI deepfake, quantum computing overwhelming computing power.

2. But need the government R&D AI and IT and quantum physics expertise to do deep study and development to ensure they are foolproof.

3. Also need developed countries expertise like US, China, EU and other smart nations collaboration to ensure future advanced biometric technologies can overcome cyberscammer and cyber hackers.

4. Understand the 4G government is running deep into the advanced technologies.

5. But just need to wait for the right time to unleash the information to pacify the public.

6. If successfully developed, then noticed that NRIC number as identifier and authenticator is just a kindergarten stuff.

7. Psychologically, NRIC number will no longer hold a place in people's memory if biometric technologies deployment take hold.

8. I know our government can do it - but need a little stretch - because notice that all government R&D agencies, Universities and technology agencies are firing at all cylinders.

Just awaiting for the outcomes not in the far future.

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 4:59 PM]

Also noticed the ICA immigration checkpoint biometric scan - is a very positive experience.

QR code scan to ascertain a person identity - less than 1 minute identification - clear 1st egate.

Then facial and iris biometric scan for authentication - less than 1 minute - clear 2nd egate.

No passport, no NRIC number.

Only handphone with myica mobile apps and just our beautiful face and eyes - clear the checkpoint in a breeze.

So advance biometric technologies is already there.

Only how to roll out to all public and commercial online transactions (keeping in mind biometric solutions need to move from a close private network into the open internet network - whereby all crocodile cyber scammers and hackers are out there).

And tackling the risk from AI deepfake, deep learning and quantum computing - that can crack the binary encryption protecting the biometric data with quantum bits computing.

This is my only fear.

But biometric technologies - everything is ready to go - 只欠东风。

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 5:59 PM]

My close friend comments:-

Our nric has been exposed for a long time. Remember those days before PDPA? We gave away our NRIC without second thoughts. 

An immediate consideration is to consider issuing an asynchronous code to pair with our NRIC.

Eg masking out NRIC first 4 digits actually doesn't help if we have been giving away for full NRIC # for the past decades ☺️. Instead now we pair our NRIC with another code.  And we guard this code tightly. 

An analogy would be - our credit card number has a pairing CVC and merchants also request for card expiry to validate validity of the card. 

This is not absolutely strong but we can't just throw the baby out with the bath water.

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 6:00 PM]

📢 Topic 📢

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 6:11 PM]

My comments:-

I think this is a good interim measure.

LCL (Danny 心), [20/12/2024 6:22 PM]

"Powell says Fed cannot hold bitcoin, not seeking to change that".

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/powell-says-fed-cannot-hold-bitcoin-not-seeking-change-4815206#:~:text=Powell%20says%20Fed%20cannot%20hold%20bitcoin%2C%20not%20seeking%20to%20change%20that

The Federal Reserve (Fed) has not officially recognized Bitcoin as a strategic financial asset for several reasons:

1. *Lack of intrinsic value*: The Fed views Bitcoin as a speculative asset, lacking intrinsic value and a stable store of value.

2. *Volatility*: Bitcoin's price is highly volatile, making it unsuitable as a reliable store of value or medium of exchange.

3. *Limited adoption*: While Bitcoin has gained popularity, its adoption as a widely accepted form of payment is still limited.

4. *Regulatory concerns*: The Fed has expressed concerns about Bitcoin's regulatory environment, including issues related to anti-money laundering (AML) and know-your-customer (KYC).

5. *Security risks*: The Fed has highlighted the potential security risks associated with Bitcoin, including the risk of hacking and cyber attacks.

6. *Lack of central authority*: The decentralized nature of Bitcoin, without a central authority, raises concerns about its stability and reliability.

7. *Not a fiat currency*: Bitcoin is not a fiat currency, meaning it's not issued or backed by a central bank or government.

These concerns have led the Fed to maintain a cautious stance toward Bitcoin, focusing instead on exploring the potential benefits of central bank-issued digital currencies (CBDCs).

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 6:44 PM]

Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

REACH Singapore, [20/12/2024 7:00 PM]

Dear Contributors

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our Telegram chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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