Wednesday, December 6, 2023

REACH 517 - What are your views on Singapore’s renewed AI strategy? How can we ensure that more people benefit from technological developments despite potential disruptions?

(SK)

06 Dec 2023 (10am - 7pm)


REACH

6/12/23, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

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Megan 😊

6/12/23, 9:58 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

6/12/23, 10:00 am - +REACH: 📢Topic📢

On Monday (4th Dec), Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong, speaking at the Singapore Conference on artificial Intelligence (AI), said that there is a need to update Singapore’s original AI strategy due to recent breakthroughs in generative AI.

Dubbed National AI Strategy 2.0: AI for the Public Good for Singapore and the World, the new strategy focuses on nurturing talent, promoting a thriving AI industry and sustaining it with world-leading infrastructure and research that ensures AI serves the public good.

💬 *What are your views on Singapore’s renewed AI strategy? How can we ensure that more people benefit from technological developments despite potential disruptions?* 

📌 *_Nurturing talent_*

DPM Wong said to nurture talent here, Singapore aims to triple its number of AI practitioners to 15,000 by training locals and hiring from overseas. The group includes data and machine-learning scientists and engineers who are the backbone of translating AI into real-world apps.

📌 *_Protecting jobs_*

DPM Wong said said there is likely to be significant changes in job roles, and the Government will invest significantly in training to ensure that workers here can adapt.

📌 *_Developing the industry_*

Many AI-related firms here are using AI on a project basis and for specific uses, but they can do more to go beyond the needs of a specific company to benefit the wider industry, said DPM Wong. He added that “There is potential for such industry-wide platforms in key areas like advanced manufacturing, financial services and biomedical studies, where Singapore is already operating at the leading edge.”

📌 *_Developing infrastructure_*

DPM Wong also shared that Singapore would not be able to compete with major powers in assembling raw computing power but it would do everything it could to ensure that it has the computing power to meet its growing research and industry demands.

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-updates-strategy-to-tackle-new-risks-of-generative-ai-implications-for-humanity

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/national-ai-strategy-artificial-intelligence-talent-iconic-site-3963971

6/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group

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6/12/23, 10:11 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: it's a good thing.

6/12/23, 10:13 am - +Frankie Wee: Indeed incredible

6/12/23, 10:16 am - +Frankie Wee: Singapore land is small but industry 4.0 business system is fast. Ai can working long team and speed productive.

6/12/23, 10:33 am - +Smiley face: 6 December, 2023

Is the Asia century just a dream or a prolonged dream coming to fruition?

"From the South to the North and the East meets the West; once again, in the testament of history, the coming new world dynamics are about people and migrations. These human movements will bring along talents, capital, the formation of new ethos, new technological innovations, new opportunities for the brave ones."

- - anonymity

6/12/23, 10:47 am - +Darius Lee: AI is a useful tool. But like any other tool, AI can be used for good or bad purposes. More than just developing talent on AI, we need to develop the proper ethical, moral and legal norms and frameworks to govern the proper use of AI. I hope that more efforts can be invested in that direction.

6/12/23, 10:54 am - +Smiley face: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly....all tangibles or intangibles come in these shapes and orders...?

6/12/23, 10:55 am - +Smiley face: AI to GAI to SAI....

G means generative and S means Super...

Now we are in the era of GAI.

6/12/23, 11:29 am - +Smiley face: 3 December, 2023

The Airlines Intelligence: Hot Seats and Cold Seats" 

"If we assume 2/3 of a calendar year to be hot selling months and 1/3 being the laggard. If we further assume in an unprecedented year of crisis, rate of sell through fell to half the YOY and the margin of errors of the quarterly revenue and the next quarter are above 20% then it is perhaps wiser to start investing and building the next generation of analytical models using GAI to replace all currently known statistics models of forecasting and predictive analytics and slicing the standard deviation into ten tenth of one SD."

- - anonymity

          - -  in progress - -


6/12/23, 11:48 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4v9cgLOpg


6/12/23, 11:48 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"As Singapore faces deepfake surge, authorities warn of threats from cybercrime, online scams.

Deepfakes refer to media that has been altered by artificial intelligence (AI), using a technique called facial re-enactment to manipulate the performance of a subject in an existing video."

 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/regulation-will-always-be-chasing-technology-education-key-combating-risks-ai-and-deepfakes-experts-cybercrime-3966226#:~:text=As%20Singapore%20faces,an%20existing%20video.


6/12/23, 11:52 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"Hackers use AI to bypass biometrics security"

 https://www.itweb.co.za/content/LPp6VMrBgVoMDKQz#:~:text=Hackers%20use%20AI%20to%20bypass%20biometrics%20security


6/12/23, 11:56 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So our AI strategy on top of :-

1. Nurturing talents

2. Protecting jobs

3. Developing the industry

4. Developing infrastructure

Need to have another strategy:-

5. Safeguard against AI scams and deepfakes. <This message was edited>


6/12/23, 11:59 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

GAI (Generative AI) - can be misused by Adversarial P.....

Deepfakes can also be created by Adversarial N.. N...


6/12/23, 12:00 pm - +Liang Wei: 6. Ethics , mitigating n maximising social impact.


6/12/23, 12:03 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


6/12/23, 12:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"WormGPT, WolfGPT and FraudGPT - how to spot scams created by ChatGPT’s ‘evil cousins’"

 https://uk.news.yahoo.com/wormgpt-wolfgpt-and-fraudgpt---how-to-spot-scams-created-by-chatgpts-evil-cousins-152632796.html#:~:text=WormGPT%2C%20WolfGPT%20and%20FraudGPT%20%2D%20how%20to%20spot%20scams%20created%20by%20ChatGPT%E2%80%99s%20%E2%80%98evil%20cousins%E2%80%99


6/12/23, 12:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"Deepfake video of Taylor Swift speaking Mandarin sparks discussion over AI in China"

 https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/deepfake-video-of-taylor-swift-speaking-mandarin-sparks-discussion-over-ai-in-china#:~:text=Deepfake%20video%20of%20Taylor%20Swift%20speaking%20Mandarin%20sparks%20discussion%20over%20AI%20in%20China


6/12/23, 12:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

AI generated photos.


6/12/23, 12:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


6/12/23, 12:32 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiTGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmJ1c2luZXNzaW5zaWRlci5jb20vYWktdGVjaC1qb2JzLWxheW9mZnMtY2Vvcy1jaGF0Z3B0LWlibS0yMDIzLTXSAVBodHRwczovL3d3dy5idXNpbmVzc2luc2lkZXIuY29tL2FpLXRlY2gtam9icy1sYXlvZmZzLWNlb3MtY2hhdGdwdC1pYm0tMjAyMy01P2FtcA?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen 

CEOs are getting closer to finally saying it — AI will wipe out more jobs than they can count.


6/12/23, 12:36 pm - +Smiley face: STANDARDIZATION of digital AI platforms across sectors of businesses and industries will be the answers to the rate of adoption and the success in the final implementing after the post beta stage.

What will Microsoft do?

6/12/23, 12:41 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Agree ...


6/12/23, 12:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence eventually, the AI space will need to develop an additional professional - AI cyber-security professional.


6/12/23, 12:47 pm - +Rose M K Ho: ?? AI police to chk on AI bots ??? 

That's 'funny', Danny.... 🤭


6/12/23, 12:48 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*Nurturing AI talents, creating jobs*

In AI current evolving form, at least 3 AI job roles can be identified:-

1. AI developers.

2. AI prompt engineer (one role per each industry sector eg IT, Law, Medical, Government service, Manufacturing, etc)

3. AI cyber-security professional


6/12/23, 12:49 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*Protecting jobs*

Actually is number 2:-

2. Specific industry AI prompt engineer.


6/12/23, 12:52 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*Developing AI industry*

Will need strong education and training in STEMS.

1. Science

2. Technologies - coding, IT knowledge

3. Engineering

4. Math

AI development are mainly math models. <This message was edited>


6/12/23, 12:55 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*Developing AI infrastructure*

Will need powerful chips, GPU, powerful computers - strong engineering and manufacturing sectors.


6/12/23, 12:57 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Complementing AI development is Quantum Computing - qubits, Quantum entanglement (spooky actions in a distance), quantum computers etc.

Basically science, physics.


6/12/23, 12:58 pm - +Smiley face: "New technologies created smarter Chips; Smarter Chips in turn drive the next breakthrough in technology!"

- - anonymity


6/12/23, 12:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence not strong in STEMs - no AI.


6/12/23, 1:01 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence, all industries sector job roles - will evolve around industry prompt engineer - exploiting AI to complement and boost their job capacity and capabilities - a strong dose of productivity growth per worker indeed.


6/12/23, 1:02 pm - +Smiley face: Relevant and applicable skillsets will secure the jobs of tomorrow!

And how about previous experience?


6/12/23, 1:03 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But like computer revolution - many mundane and repetitive jobs will be wipe out.

Only creative, innovative, thinking and value added jobs will be highly prized.


6/12/23, 1:08 pm - +Smiley face: The future of the workplace encompasses a few critical attributes. One,  knowledge, two,  people skills and three, digital know-how.

The higher the requirements or technically a job is, the deeper the knowledge base a worker must have...

No short cuts or you shall be short changed!


6/12/23, 1:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Nurturing AI talents will need to educate and train top talents for the jobs because AI is very complicated and the field is very broad.

STEMS must be very strong.

Eg. Generative AI specifically GAI is only just 1 field of AI.

And it comprise broadly of the following:-


6/12/23, 1:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. To understand Generative AI, specifically, we have to understand what ChatGPT is made up of.


2. Generative AI, speficically use a combination of :-

a. ML - Machine Learning

b. NLP - Natural Language Processing

c. Deep Learning

d. LLM - Large Language Model.

e. Neural network

f. Reinforcement Learning 


3. ML - Machine Learning

- is about creating a model that can recognise patterns in data and used them to make predictions or take actions.


4. NLP - Natural Language Processing

- enable machine to understand and process human language


5. Deep Learning

- It is based on deep learning architecture called the transformer.


6. LLM - Large Language Model.

- It mimic human intelligence.

- It uses statistical models to analyse vast amount of data, learning the patterns and connections between words and phrase.


7. Neural Network

- it uses neural network architecture comprising mathematical equations - linear and non-linear equations.

- A neural network comprise of multiple layers, where each layer performs a linear or non-linear transformation of the input from the previous layer.


8. Reinforcement Learning

- Reinforcement learning is a semi-supervised learning - learn based on "reward" (positive and negative reinforcement) - just like human.

- It is iterative in nature with the best solution gradually improving over time until an optimal strategy is discovered or the training process is ended.

- Because AI got "punished" with point deduction, it move away from bad solution and move into good solution as good solution accumulate points.


6/12/23, 1:23 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Prompt engineer - is how to use this Generative AI (GAI) develop by the AI developers - to help each industry sector jobs - trained on a dataset input into LLM of each specific industry sectors.


6/12/23, 1:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

AI cyber-security professional (not identified in AI space yet) - how to prevent AI from being misused, able to detect deepfakes, AI scam, AI cyber attack etc.

This role is not identified yet - but I feel the AI world will eventually evolve this role.


6/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So my assessment is, 

1. Training Computer Science and IT is very tough, a tall order.

2. Training AI talents will be doubly hard if not triply hard.

IT talents need to be strong in STEMS.

AI talents need to be doubly, triply strong in STEMS - especially Math.


6/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So some parents say, Moe should relax on math, science - children very stress - is going at the wrong direction.

We can relax, but jobs and skillets who need math and science won't relax.


6/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So nurturing AI talents and protecting jobs - is not only about IT.

It will impact many government policies across the board - education, manpower, social services, housing, healthcare etc.


6/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Smiley face: Singapore students rank top in maths, science and reading in OECD study  

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-students-rank-top-in-maths-science-and-reading-in-oecd-study

What's the meaning?


6/12/23, 1:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I believe AI prompt engineer jobs will have something like this:-

1. Government service AI prompt engineer

2. Law AI prompt engineer

3. Medical AI prompt engineer

4. Manufacturing AI prompt engineer

5. Finance AI prompt engineer

This are very broad - job description.


I believe individual industry sector to have a more refine AI prompt engineer job role.

Eg. Brain AI prompt specialist.

Loan AI prompt consultant.

Land Transport government service AI prompt engineer.


6/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Thomas: To be a good IT programmer or in IT professional. You need to have an aptitude for it. Your mindset need to be flexible in solving problem and persevere in solution solving. Great patience and tolerance. A mindset that if this route can't go , then another route. This are train my mathematical discipline . In early days, those who wish to study computer science , need to go for national computer science aptitude test and more like a IQ test.


6/12/23, 1:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Luckily our Moe Minister don't succumb to some parents demand.


6/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ai will change your life

6/12/23, 1:45 pm - +Smiley face: Yes...

No short cuts to SUCCESS or you will be short changed sooner than later...?

6/12/23, 1:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/16/bill-gates-ai-agents-could-change-how-we-live-our-lives.html

6/12/23, 1:46 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, the previous 70 years after WW2...things changed too!


6/12/23, 1:47 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

All these job roles are not there yet because GAI is still at its infant stage.

I am just projecting and creatively coining the possibility by creating future AI jobs for Singaporeans.

So that people will not be despair. <This message was edited>


6/12/23, 1:47 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, from hypothetical to practical in weeks, that's the power of machine countings...

6/12/23, 1:48 pm - +Smiley face: Every six months or less, these GAI gain leaps....

6/12/23, 1:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: We are doing office Microsoft is a dumb. We can’t thinker of speed

6/12/23, 1:49 pm - +Smiley face: What if you are not engineering trained nor/or number trained?

What's the future of job security and the dynamics of AI ?

6/12/23, 1:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Sure about Ai is our life changed


6/12/23, 1:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Can only concentrate on traditional jobs but work with the respective prompt engineers.


6/12/23, 1:51 pm - +Smiley face: Wait wait...

What if MS version 10 incorporates super chat/check AI and standardizes across the entire spectrum of MS software for the workplaces including offices to academics?

Makan ALL and leave nothing on the table!

6/12/23, 1:51 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ai has no contribution daily life

Different human work earn to support contribute alway received pension benefits

6/12/23, 1:51 pm - +Ben: If anyone can wrangle the chaos of AI, then Singapore can!

6/12/23, 1:52 pm - +Smiley face: AI in and retrenchment out....

New jobs in and out the old jobs...

6/12/23, 1:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: I have taken skillfuture course power automate I say wow so amazing all in data for Ai power point

6/12/23, 1:52 pm - +Smiley face: Better to be a wrangler than a little cowboy...?

6/12/23, 1:53 pm - +Smiley face: Within 3 years, pls go back to skill future academy to reboot new digital skills and new uses or

6/12/23, 1:54 pm - +Smiley face: Traditional medicine vs modern medicine vs cutting edge medicine...

Who wins most?

Adoption and preference concept

6/12/23, 1:55 pm - +Smiley face: "Die liao....AI lai Liao"

- - Singlish

6/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ai can possibly cure any kindly of disease like cancer or hiv but can be battle Covid-19

6/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Smiley face: Farsightedness ..

Either you see it or you can't see it or you don't wish to see it..

6/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Smiley face: Singlish buddy....huat ah!

6/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Smiley face: Yes lah... die slowly or slowly die.... sooner or late die lor!

6/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: Whole world going develop Ai if no Ai then economy very slow business can’t make money.

6/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, either you are leading or lead or you follow !

6/12/23, 2:01 pm - +REACH: 📢Topic📢

6/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Smiley face: Try to find talents in Central Asia.... those "tans" countries.... there are pockets of IT talents...

6/12/23, 2:04 pm - +Smiley face: The power of deep machine learnings to drive and derive a highly definitive and precise predictive business intelligence system (BIS) is becoming a reality whether is scenario playing or dealing head-on in a multiple crisis or an one-off seasonal effects; it is doable and the codes are breakable too!

All of these and that of technological breakthroughs will have many advantages to the one that have the BIS and the competitors without BIS will face five profound dampening effects on the competitors' clusters, sectors and the overall organisation KPI, less predictability and losing competitiveness of their businesses. And above all known metrics and costs; the introduction of decarbonization and carbon credit, both are system of measurements for global consumptions and these unknown variables will break any business if it lost count and caught on the wrong side of things....


6/12/23, 2:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心:

When I mention many government policies across the board must be revised and updated - once AI take hold :-


1. Education - need to ensure math, science - STEMs, AI etc - education - are imparted to our children and workers.


2. Manpower - need to train our workers in AI or complement their jobs to work with AI.

Need to ramp up to ensure job security (increasingly challenging - as AI disruptos become more potent - and workers increasingly challenging to held on to traditional jobs - and they will constantly need to train and upgrade).


3. Social service - more workers who are impacted by AI will be disrupted, more people will fall out of the jobs and income impacted - this will have more pressure on social welfare, mental stress, demand for more financial aids etc.

Hence social service will need to ensure its policies continue to encourage people to learn how to fish - and not be given fish only - for the Country to remain fiscal sustainable.


4. Housing - Housing policies may need to revamp - as AI tech disruptors will disrupt jobs very frequently, lead time to train retrenched workers will mean income loss for workers to finance housing loans etc.

Hence, hope Government will seriously consider scrapping the income ceiling criteria - that prevent a young couple with $14,000 per month to apply for BTO flats (iinstead replace with the policy for such income group to pay full BTO flat price without subsidies).

I will elaborate on this later in the discussion - because it affect many of my cohorts children that fall into this category or "falling" into this category very soon.


6/12/23, 2:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Needs aptitude tests. Otherwise, wasting resources.

Different job scope, requirement different.


6/12/23, 2:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

Sometimes, need to cast the net wider to identify whizkid who possess inherent skills but didn't do well in exams.


6/12/23, 3:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Previously in our generation, tech disruptor and business disruptor are happening less often.

Workers are able to work until 50 years old - with less career disruption up to 50 years old (where age discrimination take over - and disrupt mature workers).

But as workers already work for more than 20 years old - many are able to finance and pay off.

Eg. Previously, the income ceiling criteria is $10,000 combined income.

EC, Condo - cost less than $1 million -- about $600,000 (very good condo already) - during our genetation

Assuming bank loan interest is 3%, loan + interest = $618,000 estimated for easy illustration.

20 years loan = $2,575 per month to service the loan.


2. So a young couple $10,000 salary per month, even if wife decide to be housewife to look after the children, husband earn $5,000 -- pay $2,575 - still got $2,425 per month to put food on the table and pay essential services.

(Last time, $2.50 got png cai, got big bowl of noodle to eat).


3. Tech disruptors and business disruptors less potent and less frequent - young couples can pay off the housing loan when they can work beyond 20 years - and pay off the housing loans.

(Our parents generation can even work longer until old age - more than 60 years, 75 years then retire - no career disruption)

Then income ceiling criteria of $10,000 to prevent high income workers from applying HDB flats make some sense - because HDB flats are subsidised.


4. But now with tech disruptors, business disruptors and specifically AI disruptors - the career disruption will be very frequent - 2 years, 3 years? --- as AI disruption is very fast.

Then imposing income ceiling criteria to force $14,000 income earners to buy EC, condo, landed properties doesn't make sense - because this policy assume young couples can hold on the jobs for more than 20 years - with monthly combine income of $14,000 per month for 20 years.

(Note:- even our generation, this assumption already cannot take hold, because notice a good minority of people already start losing jobs or get disrupted in the 40s).

I will come out with calculation illustration to illustrate my this point later.


6/12/23, 3:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Previously in our generation, tech disruptor and business disruptor are happening less often.

Workers are able to work until 50 years old - with less career disruption up to 50 years old (where age discrimination take over - and disrupt mature workers).

But as workers already work for more than 20 years old - many are able to finance and pay off.

Eg. Previously, the income ceiling criteria is $10,000 combined income.

EC, Condo - cost less than $1 million -- about $600,000 (very good condo already) - during our genetation

Assuming bank loan interest is 3%, loan + interest = $618,000 estimated for easy illustration.

20 years loan = $2,575 per month to service the loan.


2. So a young couple $10,000 salary per month, even if wife decide to be housewife to look after the children, husband earn $5,000 -- pay $2,575 - still got $2,425 per month to put food on the table and pay essential services.

(Last time, $2.50 got png cai, got big bowl of noodle to eat).


3. Tech disruptors and business disruptors less potent and less frequent - young couples can pay off the housing loan when they can work beyond 20 years - and pay off the housing loans.

(Our parents generation can even work longer until old age - more than 60 years, 75 years then retire - no career disruption)

Then income ceiling criteria of $10,000 to prevent high income workers from applying HDB flats make some sense - because HDB flats are subsidised.


4. But now with tech disruptors, business disruptors and specifically AI disruptors - the career disruption will be very frequent - 2 years, 3 years? --- as AI disruption is very fast.

Then imposing income ceiling criteria to force $14,000 income earners to buy EC, condo, landed properties doesn't make sense - because this policy assume young couples can hold on the jobs for more than 20 years - with monthly combine income of $14,000 per month for 20 years.

(Note:- even our generation, this assumption already cannot take hold, because notice a good minority of people already start losing jobs or get disrupted in the 40s).

I will come out with calculation illustration to illustrate my this point later.


----

1. For example, I search the web yesterday, and get inputs from my cohort private chatgroup, this is the information I get.


2. EC - $1,400 psf, for a 5-room EC size equivalent 1,200 sq ft = $1,680,000 (3% interest bank loan for 20 years) = $1,730,400 = $7,210 per month loan + interest need to be repaid every month.


3. Private condo - $2,000 psf, for a 5-room EC size equivalent 1,200 sq ft = $2,400,000 (3% interest bank loan for 20 years) = $2,472,000 = $10,300 per month loan + interest need to be repaid every month.

(Don't even have to talk about landed properties ---- exorbitant prices and loan).


4. Now the income ceiling criteria is $14,000 (both couple working) $7,000 each.

Assume wife become housewife to look after the children, husband only bring in $7,000.

- EC $7,210 - $7,000 salary how to pay? Short of $210 every month, don't even have money to buy food and essential necessities.

- Condo $10,300 - Couple still owe $3,300 every month, no money for food and essential services.


5. If AI disruptors come in, both couple lose jobs, where to find money to repay housing loans - short of borrowing from loansharks?


6. Even if both couples bring in $14,000 - pay $10,300 housing loan for private condo - couple only left $3,700. 

At this current high inflation, can buy food, children education, parents allowance, MCST maintenance fees ($300 to $500 per month), pay transport, healthcare, groceries, baby milk, baby diapers etc etc etc?


7. Even if both couples bring in $14,000 - pay $7,210 housing loan for private condo - couple only left $6,790. 

This EC couples will have more breathing space as compared to EC household - but with high inflation, very little help from the government --- they will also have little left for savings and retirement. 

(Note :- the income criteria is $14,000 to $16,000 - and not many can qualified.

Even if qualified, both couples must work to fetch $14,000 to $16,000 per month.

Wife cannot stop work to care for children.

Both couples cannot lose their jobs for 20 years and must consistently fetch $14,000 to $16,000 per month.

Is this assumption realistic with AI disruptors and tech disruptors - that disrupt jobs 2 to 3 years?)


8. Unlike BTO flats, these group of Singaporeans don't even get GST voucher, COL voucher, SCC rebates, town council rebates --- only very recently - but get alot less as compare to BTO flats household.


9. This is the group of Singaporeans - which is the most neglected, most ignored sandwich "so call high income" group (that received the least attention by the government) with the following characteristics:-

a. Pay the most tax.

b. Get the least benefits.

c. Buy the more expensive private houses.

d. Laden with high housing loans debt.

e. Lock out from most of the privileges.

f. Prevent from applying for the public houses.

g. But they are called "local talents" that the country needs.


10. Hence I will like the Government to seriously ponder over this feedback, understand the concerns face by this group --- and consider scrapping the "Income ceiling criteria" to apply for BTO flats ---- by replacing it with income ceiling $14,000 and beyond, pay full BTO flat without subsidy.

Else, I fear Singapore will be losing many local talents --- as it will drive many local talents to other Countries -- that squeeze their neck constantly to finance their exorbitant housing loans.


6/12/23, 3:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I will envisage, people may argue - Singapore has millions over resale flats that this group of Singaporeans can buy.


2. My feedbacks are as follows:-

a. Why this group of Singaporeans are "discriminated upon" - and can only buy 2nd hand flat but cannot be like other Singaporeans apply for new BTO flats - if they are willing to pay the full price without subsidies?


b. Now many mature estates lease are very old - like my estates are left with 60 years lease.

A 20 plus couple will means - they will have to buy very old rundown flats, at very high price (close to $1 million) and can stay up to 80 years old, if they live beyond 80 years old, the lease expire, and they got no house to stay.


c. With Plus flat with MOP 10 years occupation - this group in mature estates will have less choice of resales flat to buy.


d. Those standard flats with MOP 5 years --- are in very ulu, outskirts areas eg. Tengah, probably Tampines, Punggol I guess --- very far from their parents in mature estates - and this group still need to fork out big money eg. $1 million to buy resales 2nd hand flat.

I still come back to the question - why have "discriminatory policy" against this group?

They pay most tax, get least benefits and privilieges - get less help from the government - but get "most discriminated upon" - can only by 2nd hand flat at high price?


e. I thought Singapore embrace "Inclusive Policy"?

Is the income ceiling criteria "Inclusive" - if this group is willing to pay "full price for BTO flat without subsidies"?


6/12/23, 3:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

And even Majullah package totally ignore this group of Singaporeans.

But pioneer and merdeka package embrace all of the respective generation.


6/12/23, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢Topic📢


6/12/23, 4:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments: 

Once gov give up income ceiling, the demand will shoot up. 

Now already cannot meet demand.


My comments : That's why HDB need to build faster and higher.

Eg. More 30 floors flats to accommodate higher demand.

Else very difficult to encourage people to get married and have babies.

Now my a few young couples quite dejected already.

Not even talking about having babies.


6/12/23, 4:20 pm - +Rama: Agree

6/12/23, 4:20 pm - +Rama: Can be an election issue come GE25


6/12/23, 4:21 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Policy that no longer serve the needs or worst become damaging should be corrected.


6/12/23, 4:21 pm - +Smiley face: https://mustsharenews.com/bukit-merah-hdb-million/?utm_source=telegram

6/12/23, 4:21 pm - +Rama: Fast!

6/12/23, 4:22 pm - +Smiley face: "The pinnacle and the end game is TALENT identification and classification."

- - anonymity


6/12/23, 4:23 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Don't need to use threat.

Just reason out with the government.

They are very wise, smart and care for the people.

I believe they have reason why income ceiling are there in the 1st place because HDB flats are heavily subsidized.

But now circumstances change.

If high income couples willing to pay full price and forgo the subsidies, I feel that the government should accommodate them - and not "leave them behind".


6/12/23, 4:24 pm - +Rama: Explanation must be truly upfront

6/12/23, 4:24 pm - +Smiley face: "If you're going through hell, keep going."

- - Winston Churchill

6/12/23, 4:25 pm - +Rama: Agree

6/12/23, 4:25 pm - +Smiley face: "Good decisions are based on diversity (experts+non-experts) and not conformity (experts thinking); build an exceptional and diverse team,...(ro)bots do make mistakes,...Carl Jung's ideas of synchronicity and coincidence,...to avoid mass stupidity!"

- - anonymity


6/12/23, 4:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

The government may not know the pain point this group is undergoing and sufferings.

Only when people bring it up and bring to their attention, will the government know that some groups have fall through the crack.

Only then they can rectify the crack.


6/12/23, 4:26 pm - +Smiley face: "Every twenty years there will always be transformation (change) of tangibles and/or intangibles, something would happen...this coming transformation is about shortening the work time or restructuring the process or  downsizing the workforce in order to achieve a leaner and more profitable outcome for businesses who embrace these digits (AI) and new ways in the making...!"

- - anonymity 

(20 years = 1 generation)

6/12/23, 4:26 pm - +Rama: Not 25!?

6/12/23, 4:27 pm - +Smiley face: "Win or lose, I shall fight on for what is right, for the better life for the people."

- - Lee Kuan Yew, 17 Mar, 1955

6/12/23, 4:27 pm - +Smiley face: Shorten to 20 years !

Why so?


6/12/23, 4:27 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

On the surface this group look glamorous and look rich.

But once you work out the sum with math - people can start to understand what sufferings they are going through.


6/12/23, 4:27 pm - +Smiley face: HDB SERS don't pass beyond 40 years....

6/12/23, 4:28 pm - +Smiley face: Try to investigate other economies....

Sama sama...

6/12/23, 4:29 pm - +Rama: Missed this guy

6/12/23, 4:29 pm - +Smiley face: "When things go sideways (fragmented world), we go the highway (alternatives) and one highway is Digitisation; to speed up the productivity and cover all slacks or lie back and relax?"

- - anonymity

6/12/23, 4:30 pm - +Smiley face: Is our policymakers DNA and bloodline?

6/12/23, 4:31 pm - +Rama: Yes

6/12/23, 4:31 pm - +Smiley face: Steady steady and don't overly worry...?

6/12/23, 4:31 pm - +Rama: Agree

6/12/23, 4:33 pm - +Smiley face: We need our 4G to feel confident at the same momentum to continue the ground works and importantly stay GROUNDED!

Who needs the opposites if the opposite of the opposition knows it all !

6/12/23, 4:34 pm - +Rama: The opposite of any opposite don't exist!

6/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Smiley face: Useful or otherwise less able?

Then why have it?

6/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Rama: Let them whither on the side!


6/12/23, 4:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I have private chat group close friend that constantly check my comments and challenge my comments.

I welcome such comments because I won't want to get entangled with groupthink and ensure the feedback I put in REACH can stand water.


6/12/23, 4:36 pm - +Smiley face: The opposite of the opposition means ...the proposition, aka govt!

Just words twisting fun...


6/12/23, 4:37 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I support and agree with this statement. <This message was edited>


6/12/23, 4:38 pm - +Smiley face: No sweat, the next GE !

6/12/23, 5:10 pm - +Smiley face: 50/50 Strategy and Strength?

Using 50% less workforce and achieving 50% increase in productivity !

is it possible or just daydreaming?

6/12/23, 5:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: This message was deleted

6/12/23, 5:17 pm - +Smiley face: "the lesser the parts or shorter the process, the lesser for manual jobs and the lesser the margin of errors thus productivity will rise and the long term learning costs will decrease and profitability will increase within 10 years or even within the fifth year of transformative operations."

- - anonymity

6/12/23, 5:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: In lifetime will be retire 55 because of Ai technology is advanced

6/12/23, 5:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: And also save cost manpower

6/12/23, 5:19 pm - +Smiley face: Let's do it!

30/30 for food security

50/50 for economic security

Uniquely SG and competitively unique!

6/12/23, 5:20 pm - +Smiley face: Extension to 65/70 age of retirement if physical and or mental able!

6/12/23, 5:21 pm - +Frankie Wee: Ai robot 5 per 50 human

6/12/23, 5:21 pm - +Smiley face: Divert to other resource centers, reskilling!

Every able Singaporeans must STAND TALLER to take on the coming and unavoidable global challenges and! CHANGES!

That's it !

6/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Frankie Wee: Push high enough transport PSA more productive delivery oversea

6/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Smiley face: 5:500 ratio of attriction!

6/12/23, 5:23 pm - +Smiley face: Redeploy to other overseas seaports owned or managed by our PSA!

Our local talents turning into FOREIGN TALENTS overseas!

6/12/23, 5:23 pm - +Smiley face: Let's think and play the REVERSAL GAME THEORY!

6/12/23, 5:23 pm - +Smiley face: Common sense vs uncommon sense

6/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>

6/12/23, 5:28 pm - +Smiley face: Today's ratio

Tomorrow leh?

6/12/23, 5:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: Developing is on the way when tomorrow will be new starter than yesterday.

6/12/23, 5:32 pm - +Smiley face: AI lai liao !

6/12/23, 5:38 pm - +Smiley face: More than the Art of War?

The old ways of spying your adversaries in any war often enough have proven over and over as one big advantage over the rest and the collected enemy top secrets, intelligence and insights have proven to have combative advantage in a highly intensive fight over survivability of an army.

If we synthesize all the above ideas and put it into an airline business model of marketing seats, a booking model that enables consumers to fill up the bulk of the airplane seats to full capacity and the revenue per one-way flight and fringe air cargo will reach its KPI of super efficiency. The idea is to maximize each flight revenue from the total seats available in the shortest selling time with spot on results and efficiency of the entire operations starting from aviation fuel hedgings and fuel banks to flight schedules, inflight services, F&B&E and the flight crews.

"Normal human cognitive abilities allows no more than 5-7 cues when thinking fast or multi tasking or lesser when thinking slowly and both processing and executing at the same time."

- - anonymity

6/12/23, 5:39 pm - +Rama: Yes

6/12/23, 5:41 pm - +Smiley face: Have the Tenacity to strive and don't be short sighted once you identify what you do is worth it and it is meaningful!

Do it!

6/12/23, 5:42 pm - +Rama: Yup

6/12/23, 5:43 pm - +Smiley face: Endure the short term of inconveniences, sufferings and sacrifices!

Life is full of  micro journeys and never a destination!

6/12/23, 5:44 pm - +Rama: Exactly

6/12/23, 5:46 pm - +Smiley face: The short term noise or complaints must be acknowledged and at the same time look further and prospect for a better future for your family and for our country's sake!

Does it matter if a home costs 0.5 of a million dollars?

Why it matters and why it doesn't matter?

Let's think deeper...

6/12/23, 6:02 pm - +REACH: 📢Topic📢

6/12/23, 6:04 pm - +Smiley face: 📌 Nurturing talent

It may take up to half a generation starting from 2024 and onto 2035 to develop our local talents to drive our economies into 2040 and towards 2050 target.

📌 Protecting jobs

Skill upgrading and reskilling are two assurance package for workers.

📌 Developing the industry

A total ship shaping efforts. Multi parties collaborations between public institutions and private enterprises from SMEs to MNCs.

📌 Developing infrastructure

It is time consuming and it takes a longer time line to achieve the end results of transforming a semi digital economy to a full digital based economy.

6/12/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

6/12/23, 6:46 pm - +Smiley face: Talent Search?

Is either you have more talents than your closest competitors or you stand to lose out in the innovations and technologies of tomorrow. And in life either you keep on moving or you stand still! Which is the smarter choice to pick?

Is not just AI talents?

It is not a new technology, this AI has been in the making for the past twenty years! The only unknown of this AI technology is the utilisation, penetration rate and the speed of adoption that will redefine how the G7/G20/G30 will realign themselves to competing advantages and advancements from single to the next three close trade partners to a group. All of these connections have profound implications and significances to the overall GDP, trades balance and the ranking of these developed nations including the top three leading countries of the next new world order.

             - - in progress - -

6/12/23, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 3 December, 2023

The Airlines Intelligence: Hot Seats and Cold Seats" 

"If we assume 2/3 of a calendar year to be hot selling months and 1/3 being the laggard. If we further assume in an unprecedented year of crisis, rate of sell through fell to half the YOY and the margin of errors of the quarterly revenue and the next quarter are above 20% then it is perhaps wiser to start investing and building the next generation of analytical models using GAI to replace all currently known statistics models of forecasting and predictive analytics and slicing the standard deviation into ten tenth of one SD."

- - anonymity

The power of deep machine learnings to drive and derive a highly definitive and precise predictive business intelligence system (BIS) is becoming a reality whether is scenario playing or dealing head-on in a multiple crisis or an one-off seasonal effects; it is doable and the codes are breakable too!

All of these and that of technological breakthroughs will have many advantages to the one that have the BIS and the competitors without BIS will face five profound dampening effects on the competitors' clusters, sectors and the overall organisation KPI, less predictability and losing competitiveness of their businesses. And above all known metrics and costs; the introduction of decarbonization and carbon credit, both are system of measurements for global consumptions and these unknown variables will break any business if it lost count and caught on the wrong side of things.

More than the Art of War?

The old ways of spying your adversaries in any war often enough have proven over and over as one big advantage over the rest and the collected enemy top secrets, intelligence and insights have proven to have combative advantage in a highly intensive fight over survivability of an army.

If we synthesize all the above ideas and put it into an airline business model of marketing seats, a booking model that enables consumers to fill up the bulk of the airplane seats to full capacity and the revenue per one-way flight and fringe air cargo will reach its KPI of super efficiency. The idea is to maximize each flight revenue from the total seats available in the shortest selling time with spot on results and efficiency of the entire operations starting from aviation fuel hedgings and fuel banks to flight schedules, inflight services, F&B&E and the flight crews.

"Normal human cognitive abilities allows no more than 5-7 cues when thinking fast or multi tasking or lesser when thinking slowly and both processing and executing at the same time."

- - anonymity

How to spy on other airlines?

The super AI will infiltrate as customers/browsers/shoppers for each one-way or two-way routes or multi-ways based on time, date, week, month and price comparison of up to 5 competing airlines. The entire airmap will consist of actual scenario of one, two, three and multi-ways of accessing from the perspective of a single traveller or in cluster, either routine or schedules. It is a mix or matching or mismatched of travellers' destination(s) that will translate into opportunities for airlines to fill the hot seats or missed the chance to fill it all up in the shortest possible time-frame on the backdrops of the intra-eeek/weekly/monthly/quarterly performances of passenger-mile-rate of purchase. By micro-segmentation of each destination or previous known destinations correlate to age, gender and race; a pre & post-beta (trial & error & realign) formula to zoom into the buying behaviors, understanding the parametrical dynamics of choices and the strings of final decision to purchase.

Budget or Full ?

The idea of ratio or proportion are two critical factors of any sound financial analysis and business analytics. It's all about margin of errors or incremental profit margin. It is evenly more important so for budget airlines to be able to competitively figure out both the full service airlines and direct competing budget airlines of what are their critical metrics of pricing, costs, and passengers load for each flight route weekly/monthly/quarterly and forecast into the next quarter into the business model to lower the  proportional errors and yielding a higher MOM precision and predictive revenue of up to 95% as compared to past methodologies of analysis.

The future of spying?

If any war has taught us the importance of spying on your enemy just to win the war. Then the future of commercial espionage will happen even more aggressive than today's internet of things, e-commerce, and GAI abilities to count the number of hits and sell through and so on and ahead of your core competitions.

The new world of cleaner and precise data collections methods (versus the mining of raw & corrupted data) will surpass the past methodologies of data collections by several quantum leap. The entire process of gathering billions of raw data and input into the GAI; from the basic stages of hits and sales numbers and the in-between of consumers choices and decisions will be captured, chunched in millions of micro batches and outcomes a higher order of accuracy and predicament all for the predictivity of operations management, better costs management, and importantly for profitability!

          - - in progress - -

6/12/23, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

6/12/23, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group


=====

Monday, December 4, 2023

REACH 516 - What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment? 

(SK)

04 Dec 2023 (10am - 7pm)


REACH

4/12/23, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from *10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

*House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:* 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

*Full set of Terms of Use:* https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

4/12/23, 9:58 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

HDB dwellers will soon be allowed to keep up to 2 cats, with a proposal to lift a ban of more than 30 years on cat ownership in public flats in the works.

Senior Minister of State for National Development Tan Kian How said that the limit of two cats per household takes into consideration views of cat owners and non-cat owners, and aims to maintain a harmonious living environment for all.

💬 *What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment?* 

Pet cats will need to be microchipped and licensed, among a slew of measures proposed to improve the management and welfare of pet and community cats.

📌 _*Licensing conditions*_

Pet cats will need to be microchipped for a licence to ensure that they are traceable and cat owners can be held to greater account if their cats are found to be abandoned, neglected or abused.

Cat owners will need to ensure the animals are kept under control in public, such as by using a harness, and first-time cat owners are required to complete an online course on responsible pet ownership.

A transition period of two years will be given to allow cat owners time to meet licensing conditions. During this period, cat owners can get their licences for free.

📌 _*Sterilisation of pet cats*_

Sterilisation of pet cats has health and behavioural benefits, as it reduces the risk of some cancers, and sterilised cats are less prone to roaming and caterwauling.

To encourage the sterilisation of pet cats, licensed owners who have not sterilised their animals will be required to renew their licence regularly and at a higher fee.

Pet cats belonging to low-income households can also get free sterilisation and microchipping from 2024.

📌 _*Extension of the Trap-Neuter-Rehome/Release-Manage programme to community cats*_

“This will allow us to better manage our community cat population holistically and in a humane and science-based manner, as we have done for our free-roaming dogs,” said Mr Tan.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/hdb-residents-could-soon-own-up-to-2-cats-per-flat-from-late-2024

Contributors may also provide feedback on the proposed framework at https://go.gov.sg/cat-framework from now till 1 February 2024.

4/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

4/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all members to send messages to this group

----


4/12/23, 10:07 am - +Ben: Good to see Cats will be allowed! If they are sterilised they won't make any noise. In fact way quieter and cleaner than dogs (I like dogs too btw). <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 10:16 am - +Frankie Wee: Home HDB must have equipment with pet for cat different from dog

4/12/23, 10:41 am - +Timothy Low: Glad to know that cats will be allowed in HDB soon. Fully support the motion.

4/12/23, 12:03 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

💬 *What are your views on the Government's proposal to allow cat ownership in HDB flats? How can we ensure that cat owners and non-cat owners can maintain a harmonious living environment?* 

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

4/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Caleb: good, as some already have cats liao

4/12/23, 12:17 pm - +Rama: Raining cats and dogs soon😳🤦‍♂️😞

4/12/23, 12:26 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: It’s good for cat lovers and pets make good company for the lonely elderly.

But there should also be some legislation / insurance to protect the neighbours who are victims of the mess the pets may cause. Eg cat go inside neighbour’s house, scratch up their leather sofa! <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 12:28 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Another area of concern is if neighbour is allergic to cat’s fur. If so, then cat should not be allowed. Human health should take precedence as it is not an issue now.

Unlike 2nd hand smoke in hdb, it was allowed before, now impossible to legislate. <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 12:45 pm - +Ben: Are these points any different to dog ownership? Maybe just have the same rules for cat and dog.

4/12/23, 12:46 pm - +Ben: Neighbours are not likely to be allergic to a cat living in a different house, by the way.

4/12/23, 12:52 pm - +Redzuan: Before this cats is illegal and But dogs legal in HDB?

4/12/23, 1:21 pm - +Noraini: Yes cat illegal, dog.legal

4/12/23, 1:30 pm - +Redzuan: 🤔

4/12/23, 1:30 pm - +Rama: Not necessarily

4/12/23, 1:32 pm - +Rama: There can be issues among a malay neighbour with cats and a non Muslim with dogs in the common corridor on each floor or in the lift.

4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I *hate* cats, esp _Black_ ones!  I hv bn spooked more than 10x by these disgusting felines!

Allowing home owners to keep just one, is bad enuff.

Now, why must u allow them to keep more than 1?

The cat owners whose pets spooked me r *irresponsible*, *inconsiderate* and *they allow their cats to roam freely ard the neighbourhood* !!

When confronted,  their excuses were tt cats, unlike dogs, cannot be leashed 🤦🏼‍♀️

& shd be allowed their freedom.  Even in the middle of the night, past midnight??!!  😱

The owners themselves are undisciplined people!, and hv little regard for their neighbour's privacy!

_*This new ruling is freaking RIDICULOUS!!*_

The cats whine in the wee hours of the nite, scratch my window pane to get in, pee in my neighbour's potted plants soil  (my neighbour has since moved). ...

And all other ungodly things tt cats do naturally ... (too many to mention).

I dun hv the $$ nor the energy to move or find a new flat to move to.

I also won't know if my new neighbour(s) keep cats.

_*If the gov wants to implement this rule, then pls also look into a penalty measure to balance things out*_.

For example, if my stupid neighbour's cat scratches my window pane & damages it, can I claim agst the stupid animal's owner to pay to replace my pane?

If the stupid animal pees & poos on my outdoor mat, can I make the inconsiderate owner pay for a new one or better yet, the owner has to wash my mat !!

On top of that, can the owner be fined for being IRRESPONSIBLE!!?? 

😡😡😡😡😡 <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️😞

4/12/23, 1:40 pm - +Ah Heng: pets are innocent

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rose M K Ho: This message was deleted

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is the owners who keep them to be blame

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is like kid

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rama: Not the owners!

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I dun care!

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: ppl who always complain about kid jumping and running .. is not the kids fault cos they are meant to jump and be monster

4/12/23, 1:41 pm - +Ah Heng: is the parents that must learnt how to discipline them

4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Ah Heng: but on the other hand people who do not have kids will never understand

4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Ah Heng: but NEVER COMAPRE A KID TO A PET !

4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I wud turn to the stupid irresponsible parents & glare at them.

If their kids dun stop, I wud then shout at them. 

😠

4/12/23, 1:42 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Correct!

4/12/23, 1:43 pm - +Rama: I do

4/12/23, 1:43 pm - +Ah Heng: on pets it can be a cat / dog / bird/ hamster / lizards or even fishes

4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: as long as that freaking humans do not know how to managed it will cause issues in the living area

4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: unless this idiot is staying on a little island by himself

4/12/23, 1:44 pm - +Ah Heng: but why are we evening taking this as a national topic hahahaha

4/12/23, 1:45 pm - +Ah Heng: when there are other pressing issues globally like the white lungs issue in eu / us and china

4/12/23, 1:45 pm - +Ah Heng: what is the govt plans, dun come tell us ooo we are monitoring the situation

4/12/23, 1:47 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Wl the ministry conduct a house to house search when ther is a complaint agst an animal in the area such as when I complain tt a stupid mysterious animal has poo'ed on my outdoor mat in the middle of the night while I was sleeping?

Better yet, the stupid black cat enters yr house  --- after u hv just mopped it & left the door open for the air to dry the floor --- and the stupid cat walks all over your floor, leaving its paw prints behind ...  as the flr is not dry yet ?

And u hv to mop again?!!!

😡😡😡

4/12/23, 1:47 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Wat is the ministry gg to do abt such situations?

4/12/23, 1:48 pm - +Rose M K Ho: And peeing in pots of soil ... the stench ... 

How wl the gov solve that prob?

4/12/23, 1:48 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I can go on & on & on ....

😤  .... that is how much I hate these damn animals!!  They r a nuisance to society !

4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Ah Heng: wait coudl it be in singapore pets are more dumb ? cos if one look at the social media other countries like US / CHINA / Thailand these animals seems pretty smart and to certain extend humans like hahahaha

4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Ah Heng: not as do do as our local cats dogs birds or even squirrels

4/12/23, 1:50 pm - +Rose M K Ho: *Whoever proposed this stupid ruling is either pet owner or just plain stupid & inconsiderate!!* --- nvr think abt ppl like me & those who r afraid of animals / pets.   .   ... .😳

4/12/23, 1:54 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Because *an idiot propose such inconsiderate ruling !*

Please keep it at just *one* pet !

If the owner wants more, then they can apply for permission --- to be granted on a case by case basis. 

Otherwise, Gov,  pls expect to be busy to go fr house to house to investigate which stupid cat damaged my potted plant & peed all over it & my outdoor mat !!! <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 1:54 pm - +Ben: Worse are the endless pianos and drum kits... so annoying to hear piano practice at 7am... or home concerts through the afternoon when trying to work. Neighbours can be very inconsiderate indeed.

4/12/23, 1:55 pm - +Ah Heng: seems we are a society that have little considerations for others

4/12/23, 1:55 pm - +Ah Heng: excellent

4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: years of nation building and the outcome .. is intolerant of neighbours

4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: i think the housing rules better change

4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: pull down all HDB and built silos instead

4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Smiley face: "When stupid things worked, that isn't stupid. When things don't work out, that isn't stupid too!"

- - anonymity

4/12/23, 1:56 pm - +Ah Heng: each with 500meters radius so residents of singapore can live in peace

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: paino also cannot

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: children running around in own home cannot

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: pets also cannot

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: funeral also cannot

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ben: Listening to mobile phone on the train... there are many examples of people not considering others.

4/12/23, 1:57 pm - +Ah Heng: custom practises also cannot

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: now see even mobile phone on train also cannot

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: what else come

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: show how ugly we are

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ben: Some things are easy,  why not have an electric piano with headphones

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: come come

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Can u imagine coming hm ard 2am (cos we work night shift @ airport) , gg down the stairs to yr flat (no direct lift) & coming face to face w green eyes & blk body coming up the stairs in the opposite direction  ??? !!! 

😨

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahahahaha

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ah Heng: rose u funny lah

4/12/23, 1:58 pm - +Ben: Lol

4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: maybe shoudl be like dogs only certain breed is allow

4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: then maybe you will be scare so much

4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Ah Heng: some cats breed are really funny

4/12/23, 1:59 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ya, u can laugh 😃 LOL.

But at tt time, I think the stupid cat was just as spooked by me !!! 🙄

Haha!!!

4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +Ah Heng: next time carry a cucumber

4/12/23, 2:00 pm - +Ah Heng: for some reason silly cats are scare of that green vege

4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Oh!  Thanks for the tip!

🙏🏻

I nvr heard of tt.

4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: they scare u , u scare them back

4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: throw the thing at them hahahahaha

4/12/23, 2:01 pm - +Ah Heng: u go search in you tube hahahaha

4/12/23, 2:03 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Microchipping etc doesn't solve the problems I just highlighted.

Perhaps make it mandatory tt the owners attend a "discipline" course on how to ensure their pets do Not become a public nuisance.

Plus put in plenary measures for ppl like me to seek damage claims in event of damages to our properties.

4/12/23, 2:03 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I will, tks!

4/12/23, 2:04 pm - +Uncle Law: support the proposal. more can be done, for example registration of the cats under the household. similar system for the dogs.

4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: DEN ALL PETS BETTER MICRO CHIP

4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: INCLUDING BIRDS

4/12/23, 2:05 pm - +Ah Heng: opps sorry for the caps

4/12/23, 2:10 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Like I said, Gov very gd in doing _Documentation_ .

But tt Does Not Help the situation when problems arise,  like I've posted.

Like Heng says, 

Humans (ie. the pet owners) r to blame .

They shd be sent for proper Education on how to be Good, Well-behaved, Considerate, pet owners _to their Neighbours_ .   ..   ..

Unless u also wanna micro chip the pet owner .  . ...  🤔

Then we can catch them & punish them for their undisciplined pet's behaviour  .... ??!!!

😳

4/12/23, 2:11 pm - +Uncle Law: similar as what u mentioned akin to cyclist on the road


4/12/23, 2:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. I noticed that prior to allow cat ownership at home, cats in the community are ferral cats that roam around in the community.


2. Ferral cats roam around the void decks, streets, drains, coffeeshops, hawker centre - to source for food.


3. I noticed that some good hearted residents will put bowls of water, cooked food and some even buy cat food to feed the ferral cats in the community.


4. Also notice that residents such as adults, children will go around to pet the ferral cats and play with the cats - especially those cats get acclimatise with interacting with humans.


5. Of course, there are some ferral cats who are fearful of humans - and will bolt away the moment humans go near.


6. Read from news that sometimes, ferral cats are abused by some people.

And some ferral cats are hunt down by stray dogs.


7. Hence, there are push by cat lovers to be able to adopt cats to be the family cats at home just like dogs.


8. I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with this - by reversing the cat ownership ban as long as conditions to cat ownership mirror those of dog ownership.


9. This is what Inclusiveness policy should embrace.


4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: what is funny is this cat thing is a national issue hahahaha

4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: funny

4/12/23, 2:15 pm - +Ah Heng: next what mouse ?

4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Just allow *one* pet, is fine.

Anything more, ask for approval.

No need to go overboard, just to please the minority. 

Anyway, it's not like the Gov is tt strict when it comes to giving approval for more than one animal.

Or if they wan, set a quota on animals per estate or something like tt. If still within quota, can approve. If exceed, then cannot. <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: yeah some house is like a zoo

4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: dog

4/12/23, 2:16 pm - +Ah Heng: mouse

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: birds

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: fish

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: stingrays

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: den others is not one dog but a couple

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: and is those super big breed

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: like husky

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: or chow chow

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: i pity the dogs .. so big and little space and weather so bloody hot in sg

4/12/23, 2:17 pm - +Ah Heng: birds also not one

4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: is many pairs

4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahha

4/12/23, 2:18 pm - +Ah Heng: see who created all these problems again is the public

4/12/23, 2:21 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Exactly!

The particular 'cat on the stairs' tt I mentioned ... belonged to a house where the owner also kept birds (>1), rabbits (>1), hamsters (>1), fishes, dogs (>1), and >1 cat.

It was a Zoo (menagerie).

And at tt time, a young baby was also in the house! <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 2:22 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Btw, tt cat is no longer ard.

I heard fr my ex-nbr tt someone had got rid of it ... 👏🏻 to tt someone for having the courage to do it ....

4/12/23, 2:23 pm - +Rama: Hdb or town council will make the visit.

4/12/23, 2:30 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Good to know but I'm not sure if all TC's r tt active in following up on such matters.


4/12/23, 2:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Adopting cats like dogs - is a lifelong commitment - because cats like dogs are living animals.


2. They are like toddlers that are unable to take care of themselves - such as making food, drinks, toileting etc - and will need humans to make foods, drinks, toilet training etc.


3. Adopting cats, like adopting dogs - will be the same as treating them like one of the family members - as they need love, care and training to be able to interact harmoniously with cat owners and the community.

A cat's lifespan is about 10 to 14 years like dogs.

Hence, cat adopters must be able to take care of cats from cradle to grave including bringing them to see the vets if they are sick.


4. Hence, government formulating guidelines for cat ownership become imperative.


5. I agree with the government various approach to license cat ownership namely:-

a. License each cat

b. Microchip each cat to track and trace - to ensure each cat welfare are taken care off - and not abandon, neglect or abused.

c. Ensure sterilisation - to keep cat population in control.

d. Cats are kept under control in public such as using harness in leash - instead of allowing it to roam around freely in public and get lost or enter into other people's house and rummage causing havoc.


4/12/23, 2:37 pm - +Rose M K Ho: _Stick to *just ONE* cat will do_ !

4/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: hahahahahahhaa

4/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Ah Heng: rose dam funny but it make sense how many catsssss or dogssssss or birdssssss or mousessssssssss one needs !!!!

4/12/23, 2:57 pm - +Jimmy Chew: They should keep silent so that they can exercise the law when needed to flat dwellers who allow their two cats run free and refuses to control them or be civic minded. Knowing Singaporeans we will seek to break the laws. now they discreetly keep one cat and make sure they don't disturb neighbors so that no one complaints

4/12/23, 3:00 pm - +Redzuan: Maybe there are other concerns. Besides, okays n not okays to pets.

4/12/23, 3:03 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: <Media omitted>

4/12/23, 3:03 pm - +Vivian: maybe it's not from pets hahaha it is from their owner. (kidding)

4/12/23, 3:04 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: This one also kernah! Mental problem. Giant pile. Too much for dog. Must be human. <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Pets are good for old folks

4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Vivian: ya very big pile... i can smell it from here... hahaha

4/12/23, 3:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: This message was deleted

4/12/23, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: If the are willing to take care

4/12/23, 3:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We  have 2 cat whisperers in our estate. They know our neighborhood cats by name and feeds them <This message was edited>

4/12/23, 3:07 pm - +Vivian: just be kind to animals...

4/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Agree. We are

4/12/23, 3:09 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Their husbands don't allow them to have cats 🤣

4/12/23, 3:38 pm - +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

4/12/23, 3:38 pm - +Rama: Agree

4/12/23, 3:39 pm - +Rama: We need caesar Milan!


4/12/23, 3:42 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Budget 2024

(04 Dec 2023)


*Income ceiling of BTO flats*

1. I will like to highlight to the Government that there is a need to relook at a group of Singaporeans come Budget 2024 that have been overlooked in the past in midst of high inflation.


2. Understand that not all Singaporeans can apply to buy BTO flats - as income ceilings are imposed (currently at $14,000 income will forbid couples to apply for a BTO flat) - but instead will be forced to buy private condos or land property.


3. But note that the income ceiling criteria is to look at one year earning - and determine that they won't qualify to apply for a BTO flat - and will require to buy private property for marriage.


4. But increasingly, tech disruptors such as AI that disrupt jobs and business - are happening more frequently - and will cause high income earners to lose their jobs easily.


5. As high income earners lose their jobs - they will have problem financing very high price private condos and land properties.


6. Hence imposing income ceiling based on 1 year income of $14,000 and forbidding couples to apply for a BTO flat is not a good measure of affordability - as the capital outlay to finance a house - is 20 years or more - and based solely on 1 year income as qualifying criteria - in the midst of frequent career disruptor will discourage couple to get married and buy a house - as no one can guarantee that can finance a private house in the long run.


7. I will like the Government to consider scrapping the income ceiling criteria when apply for BTO flats - to encourage young couple to get married and own a house - as the income ceiling assumption that a couple can earn high income for 20 years or more in the scenario of frequent career disruption no longer applies.



*Financial support schemes such as GST voucher, COL voucher, SCC rebates - based on public housing and private housing - need to relook*


1. Many private propertyy owners are due to income ceiling criteria - that disqualified couples from applying for BTO flats - and are forced to buy private properties.


2. As there are no guarantees that high income earners will have long term careers with high income - due to more and more frequent career disruption - in the advent of AI and other tech disruptors --- couples staying in private properties also faces financial pressure from high inflation.


3. The current financial support schemes - that dispense GST voucher, COL voucher and SCC rebates - are biased against private housing owners - as most of the time, HDB flat owners get all of it - while private housing owners are deem to be rich - and most of the time, they are left out of the SCC rebates, GST voucher or COL voucher (only recently, they get a small slice of it).


4. I wish to highlight that many private housing owners are asset rich but could be cash poor because :-

a. Through HDB income ceiling policy, many couples are forced to buy private condos or land property - because they are not qualified to apply for BTO flats to get married.

They are not necessary rich - being asset rich but cash poor - as their career may be disrupted along the way, or they get good income in the year they apply for the flat but disqualified and subsequent years their income drop.

b. Some private house owners are retirees (asset rich but cash poor) - as they no longer earn income and basically live on savings.


5. Hence come Budget 2024, I urge Government to relook at such group of Singaporeans who are staying in private condos and landed properties --- not just to base on housing types - and deny them financial support schemes eg. GST voucher, COL voucher, SCC rebates.

Other criteria such as employment status, retirement status should also be considered.

That is, if they are staying in private properties + retired --- they should also qualify for GST voucher, COL voucher and SCC rebates - just like those live in HDB BTO flats.


4/12/23, 3:59 pm - +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢*

4/12/23, 4:54 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>

4/12/23, 4:57 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>

4/12/23, 4:59 pm - +Rama: Agree

4/12/23, 4:59 pm - +Rama: I see muslims to be the ones with cats mostly

4/12/23, 5:00 pm - +Rose M K Ho: I wud prefer they actually go thru a physical course wher they hv to scoop up the poop, clean up the pee, wash the rug/mat tt the stupid animal has dirtied, re pot the soil in ots, etc and other public nuisance things tt these animals cause ....

So tt they (the owners themselves) _fully understand_ the inconvenience tt their /animals' actions cause! 

😤

4/12/23, 5:01 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ther r Chinese ones too.

The example I gv of a 'zoo' was a Chinese owner who slammed the door in my face when I confronted him.

4/12/23, 5:02 pm - +Rose M K Ho: U wud be surprised but some Muslim cat owners r more considerate than the Chinese ones.

4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Pointless as once class is over, not going to practice what they learn!

4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Coconut Tree: I note anecdotally that the Muslim community cat feeders I've observed seem to be more diligent in clearing up the cat feeding trays than the Chinese ones.

4/12/23, 5:04 pm - +Rama: Then those with dogs will be the trouble makers!

4/12/23, 5:06 pm - Your security code with +65 9852 1410 changed. Tap to learn more.

4/12/23, 5:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cat and dog are friendly but need room environment

4/12/23, 5:11 pm - +Rama: Public housing no but landed property yes

4/12/23, 5:11 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Exactly my point! 😉

4/12/23, 5:14 pm - +Rose M K Ho: <Media omitted>

4/12/23, 5:14 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Otherwise, No License!

4/12/23, 5:15 pm - +Rose M K Ho: We're talking abt rules here ..  so, why be half-hearted about it?

4/12/23, 5:15 pm - +Rama: Status quo and no cats or dogs for public housing!

4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: We want to _discourage_ irresponsible human behaviour ... not allow it to rule ...

4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rama: Yes

4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rose M K Ho: If the owner cannot adhere to the rules, then dun keep pets!

4/12/23, 5:16 pm - +Rama: Financial penalties!

4/12/23, 5:19 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Ahh!  SG ppl ... very rich nowadays la... Money No Problem ....  owner wl say ...  bring it on, man ! 😏

4/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Smiley face: Do & Don't?

How about a Demerit point system tag with the owner for any violations from animal abuse, animal violence to littering such as poo and/or pee or public nuisance shall add up to penalty from fines to higher licence fees for the following two years. During the two years of Demerit, any new and or repeat offenses shall be dealt in court.

4/12/23, 5:22 pm - +Rama: Corrective Work Order!

4/12/23, 5:24 pm - +Smiley face: Clean what?

For how long?

How about repeat offenders?

Clean more?

Longer cleaning?

4/12/23, 5:25 pm - +Rama: Clear the common corridor on all floors and around the block!

4/12/23, 5:26 pm - +Smiley face: Wow!

Area cleaning! 

Length of CWO?

4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Good idea ... like insurance accident renewal plan .... 🤭

4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Rose M K Ho: CWO ... most definitely!

4/12/23, 5:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: Why don’t have HDB guide SG cat

4/12/23, 5:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cat next neighbour cat they will fighting each other.

4/12/23, 5:30 pm - +Redzuan: tagging was introduces probably because owners wanna have them when they are cute, kitten/puppy ... then release them cos few years down having the pet actually is a liability, cannot go long holiday 😭

4/12/23, 5:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: What happen if cat got pregnant by next neighbour who are responsible?

4/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Rose M K Ho: That's why *sterilisation shd be compulsory*


4/12/23, 5:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"The Big Read: As Singaporeans flock to Malaysia to seek respite from rising costs, are they inflicting the same on JB?"

 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/singaporeans-malaysia-ringgit-rising-costs-spending-big-read-3961036#:~:text=The%20Big%20Read%3A%20As%20Singaporeans%20flock%20to%20Malaysia%20to%20seek%20respite%20from%20rising%20costs%2C%20are%20they%20inflicting%20the%20same%20on%20JB%3F


4/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: If the owner cannot be responsible enough or no know-how to take care of pets, perhaps he or she or the family should just let it go to others to care.

Buying a pet is the FIRST happiness...

4/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: The power of SG$.


4/12/23, 5:35 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also means cash outflow will happen.


4/12/23, 5:36 pm - +Smiley face: Protectionism or the concept of cash flows?


4/12/23, 5:37 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well, will see.

If large cash outflow happens when rich Singaporeans start to buy more JB property - Singapore flat and private property prices will drop.


4/12/23, 5:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: JB sovereign wealth land will become Singapore acquired 🤭


4/12/23, 5:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore: Is it really the most expensive place to live?

Are prices in Singapore going up and what is the Government doing about it?

https://www.gov.sg/article/singapore-is-it-really-the-most-expensive-place-to-live


4/12/23, 5:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Government make use of Singapore competition rank world <This message was edited>


4/12/23, 5:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Actually, government already responding as world wealth report come out.


4/12/23, 5:40 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

China impose capital control when country garden was build in JB - to stop China nationals from buying - due to huge capital outflow.


4/12/23, 5:40 pm - +Smiley face: Foreigners coming to buy SG properties....evolving and rotational play.

4/12/23, 5:41 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes correct because sg is clean green and low crime do not mean no crime

4/12/23, 5:41 pm - +Smiley face: How much foreign funds have parked in SG?

Trillions?

What are the factors of a strong currency of a nation?

4/12/23, 5:42 pm - +Smiley face: SG is such an easy pissy place to do business and raise a young family....

4/12/23, 5:42 pm - +Rama: One day already penguin!


4/12/23, 5:42 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

When that happens, Singapore will be losing local talents.

And foreigners will not be able to do many jobs that are done by locals.


4/12/23, 5:43 pm - +Rama: Yes

4/12/23, 5:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: Reserve fund is a lot of gold than current. SG has zero borrow world bank.

4/12/23, 5:44 pm - +Smiley face: To begin the game of talents....our population is small to begin with...

We really need to absorb talents from all over the world!

Talent is one key to a strong, progressive and vibrant country!

Currency is another factor that attracts talents to come to work!

4/12/23, 5:44 pm - +Smiley face: Today's GOLD hit a new high! More upside into 2024!

Why so?

4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Value investment

4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Rama: Y

4/12/23, 5:45 pm - +Smiley face: Gold soars past $2,100 to new record — and analysts don't expect it to stop there

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/04/gold-prices-set-for-new-highs-amid-economic-geopolitical-uncertainty.html?__source=androidappshare

4/12/23, 5:46 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes who want investment gold when there will be crisis economy so gold value can back up

4/12/23, 5:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia very slow economy and most properties unsold the market and price going down resale

4/12/23, 5:50 pm - +9richard: <Media omitted>

4/12/23, 5:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: JB is most dangerous and crime rate high than sg


4/12/23, 5:51 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Eg. Cannot be government jobs, defense jobs, security jobs, and critical infrastructure jobs all helm by foreigners instead of local talents?

If the push and pull factors are sufficiently strong - this will happen. <This message was edited>


4/12/23, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

4/12/23, 6:02 pm - +Smiley face: Later on, a short preliminary synopsis on one of our Strategic assets is SIA/Scoot. (though it is different from today's topic on cats).

Going into 2024, there are mounting headwinds from Asia into Europe and America.

It's worth reading and hopefully SIA will look into the thesis.

4/12/23, 6:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Time is filled and fast near 2024 to 2030 meantime will be Ai robot replaced human job. There will be digital on industry 4.0

4/12/23, 6:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: SP will go to EP higher level

4/12/23, 6:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Germany, euro, USA, Japan and china developed Ai economy


4/12/23, 6:21 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

In my generations, many I know of are affected by this income ceiling criteria and force to buy private property.

But because career runway is long with less career disruption - many manage to pay off the private property financing debt - but struggle beyond 50 years old - as now discrimination against mature workers are manifesting.

Now come to their children generation - again this income ceiling criteria are forcing their children to take the same path.

But this time career disruption is more frequent as AI and other tech disruptors that disrupt careers are more frequent and more potent.

Forcing their children to take up big housing loans with high interest rates to finance exorbitant private housing prices - with more uncertainty in career and income - is like living with a gun pointing at the head - a constant stressor.

Hence government should seriously look into this.

Removing the income ceiling criteria for bto flat - is an instant relief. <This message was edited>


4/12/23, 6:31 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Last time, resale HDB flats has only used up 5 to 10 years of lease - still has 90 years lease - and making them buy resale flats are still possible.

Now majority of the flats are left with 60 years lease - selling at high price but yet if bought, the buyers cannot even sustain himself to old age because when the lease expires, he got no place to stay.

Hence income ceiling criteria no longer serves its purpose and no longer applicable to the young couples circumstances.

It should be scrapped. <This message was edited>


4/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Rama: Re-evaluate?


4/12/23, 6:32 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Government should.

Because many young couples who still have not got their flats are already gossiping and raising the above concerns.


4/12/23, 6:33 pm - +Rama: Can be a hot topic for GE25!?


4/12/23, 6:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I raise it a few times already.


4/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Rama: Hopefully don't fall on deaf ears!?

4/12/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

4/12/23, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

4/12/23, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group


====

Friday, December 1, 2023

REACH 515 - What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need? 

(SK)

01 Dec 2023 (10am - 7pm)


REACH

1/12/23, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from *10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

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Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

1/12/23, 9:48 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

1/12/23, 10:00 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

Singaporeans with greater needs will continue receiving help with the Government raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes.

The move, which takes effect from 2024, comes against the backdrop of rising annual property values, MOF announced on Nov 30.

💬 *What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need?* 

📌 These support schemes include the GST Voucher scheme, MediShield Life premium subsidies and the Workfare Income Supplement scheme.

📌 From Jan 1, 2024, the annual value threshold will be raised from $13,000 to $21,000 for the first tier, which provides a higher quantum of benefits. This new threshold will cover all Housing Board flats, the Ministry of Finance (MOF) said. The second tier, which offers a lower quantum of benefits, will see a higher annual value threshold as well.

📌 The revised annual value threshold of $25,000, up from $21,000, will cover about three-quarters of residential properties, including some lower-value private homes.

📌 Separately, the Ministry of Health (MOH) announced that any change in subsidy or assistance arising from changes in residential property annual values will be automatically extended to healthcare schemes.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/business/annual-property-value-thresholds-for-social-support-schemes-to-rise-from-2024

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/business/property-taxes-for-most-homes-to-rise-in-2024-govt-to-give-one-off-rebate-to-cushion-impact

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/budget-2023-more-help-for-singaporeans-to-cope-with-rising-costs-gst-hike

1/12/23, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

----


1/12/23, 10:02 am - +Rama: Timely to coincide with various increases

1/12/23, 10:10 am - +Liang Wei: Consider giving more money to those who are caring for elderly parents at home especially if they fulfill

1) Tiered to income but more generous

2) The elderly will otherwise be in hospital n cost the country even more in terms of healthcare subsidies n bed crunch. So the country saves on building hospitals, unnecessary subsidies for cases, nursing manpower crunch for those patients  who can be managed at home. 

3)Sandwiched persons get more help

Win win potentially. There are already some support schemes but not enough to shift the needle from admission to home care

1/12/23, 10:12 am - +Frankie Wee: 🤦

Property annual value increased 

Housing mortgage loan rate rising

1/12/23, 10:13 am - +Frankie Wee: HDB no change alway remain rate 2.6%

1/12/23, 10:28 am - +Darius Lee: In my view, property value is a rather loose and not entirely accurate way of assessing a person's means. It is a fixed and non-liquid asset. It also fluctuates in value depending on the market.

It would be better for the Government to use less of these kinds of monetary thresholds and more of other means of assessment which are based instead on specific needs (e.g. healthcare, etc.)

1/12/23, 10:33 am - +MK TPG: 1. Why the need to increase the property values, when the value of the 99-year ones eventually becomes zero?

2. The increase in values will affect the means testing for various subsidies.   Has this been taken into account?

1/12/23, 10:34 am - +Smiley face: https://mustsharenews.com/malaysia-living-costs-salaries/?utm_source=telegram

1/12/23, 10:34 am - +Smiley face: https://mustsharenews.com/singapore-expensive-city-zurich/?utm_source=telegram

1/12/23, 10:35 am - +Rama: Point 2 is good!

1/12/23, 10:36 am - +Frankie Wee: Govt taxpayers

1/12/23, 10:37 am - +Smiley face: Concept of property and value and tax.

Higher value property will pay higher tax.

1/12/23, 10:37 am - +Rama: Smart cunning move!

1/12/23, 10:38 am - +Smiley face: Try other developed countries, test the concepts and see the corresponding costs and benefits?

1/12/23, 10:38 am - +Frankie Wee: I never see any HDB estate have freehold lease <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 10:39 am - +Frankie Wee: Since many year same housing public same policy <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 10:40 am - +Smiley face: The concept of convenience, comfort and costs.

1/12/23, 10:40 am - +Frankie Wee: Who can live healthy after 99 years 

Can we walk and talk in mental health

1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Smiley face: How?

1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Smiley face: Why?

1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Frankie Wee: Technology is advance Ai treatment human health

1/12/23, 10:41 am - +Frankie Wee: Everyone family want to live next generation

1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Smiley face: Government to pilot ‘long-stay’ serviced apartments on two GLS sites to address rental demand 

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/government-pilot-long-stay-serviced-apartments-two-gls-sites-address-rental-demand

2027 and beyond?

Beyond 2023, OrangeTee and Tie data shows a fall in supply. Excluding ECs, private residential completions are expected to decline from 19,050 units in 2023 to 9,875 units in 2024. They will then fall further to 6,028 units in 2025 and to 5,154 units in 2026.

1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Frankie Wee: And make them stay under one roof family to save up money in future

1/12/23, 10:42 am - +Smiley face: Concept of continuation.

1/12/23, 11:44 am - +Redzuan: hdb prices now equivalent to condo. ?

1/12/23, 11:45 am - +Rama: Definitely not within affordable means anymore!

1/12/23, 11:46 am - +Jimmy Chew: Inevitable. Small Island. Big opportunities

1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Jimmy Chew: Safe haven

1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: Live in prime is high price

1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Jimmy Chew: You should see the new hbd estates like condo standard

1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: Standard and plus price middle to high

1/12/23, 11:47 am - +Frankie Wee: True 🤭

1/12/23, 11:49 am - +Jimmy Chew: Sometimes better design than the new condos

1/12/23, 11:53 am - +Frankie Wee: Price can be same level 

HDB plus = condo Standard 

Service maintenance and SC & C and AV tax 

different afford <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 11:55 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-


The underlying assumption here is that if we live in a higher annual value threshold property, we are richer and better off. This may not be necessarily true:

1. Unmarried sibling living together with  parent or sibling. Neither is he/she the owner, nor own any properties. But he could be cash/equity rich or very poor because he owns nothing, not even a home.


2. Property values appreciate over time, but to the individual , he's still living in the same space. To the individual, the annual value is just a number for tax computation purposes. It only make money sense if the property can be rented. So he should downgrade? There're costs eg sales commission, buyer's stamp duties, renovation and moving costs. And if the person has reached a certain age, such an decision can be overwhelming and may not lead to substantial savings unless the downgrade is vast.


3. Some people were forced into filial plights. Say they buy HDB flat with parents/for parents and have to end up buying private property for his own home and end up paying and paying. 


On the other hand, I can understand it's an emotive issue - wahlao! Stay in private property still get GST vouchers, etc etc. 

So it has to be more complex, taking into consideration multiple factors like age, health etc.


1/12/23, 11:55 am - +Smiley face: Closing up.

1/12/23, 11:55 am - +Smiley face: Towards equality.

1/12/23, 11:56 am - +Smiley face: Condon owner pays higher monthly fees compared to HDB.

1/12/23, 11:56 am - +Smiley face: Convenience and more assessable.

1/12/23, 11:57 am - +Smiley face: Live within one's budget and means. There is a need to count the money pot before one chooses and decides on tangibles.

1/12/23, 11:58 am - +Frankie Wee: Home owner live in prime after 10 years they would sell millions dollars HDB and then move to standard or plus making profit take

1/12/23, 11:58 am - +Smiley face: Not so and never it will...?

1/12/23, 11:59 am - +Smiley face: Can also, that's one strategy to build quick wealth.... watch out for the cost curve and price indexes

1/12/23, 12:00 pm - +Redzuan: Its a process for Singaporean to integrate in 20-30yrs down , within neighbours, and soon seeing more international  communities because rental prices will side to hdb spaces. (Hopefully, that's not the reason.) 

Previous times, condo management had hard time with upgrades, likely i see HDB officers have a hard time with downgrades. (Hopefully that's not true either)

1/12/23, 12:01 pm - +Smiley face: How property valuer quantifies and qualifies any piece of property whether is free or leasehold, public or private?

1/12/23, 12:02 pm - +Smiley face: HDB has renewal plans called SERS whereas an ageing private condo will wait out to enbloc or sell?

1/12/23, 12:03 pm - +Rama: Many still misculate with lack of proper planning and foresight!

1/12/23, 12:05 pm - +Smiley face: Try buying your first overseas home?

In SG, our property markets are so transparent with the least loopholes or pitfalls wherever you go shop or book a BTO!

Almost 100% fool proof!

Try buying overseas!

1/12/23, 12:06 pm - +Rama: Overseas very tricky still no matter where!

1/12/23, 12:07 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, yupp, yes!

Open your eyes and brain wide!

There the centre area is a big big geography!

Try putting your money that will lay golden eggs?

1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Redzuan: I believe the government already has the plan. ( i hope 🙏) 

Hmm, 15yrs back agents see opportunity, the hdb prices rocket because of the MRT railway plans. 

(Hopefully this is not true)

1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Smiley face: SG is such an easy pissy place to play....

1/12/23, 12:08 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, yupp, YES!

1/12/23, 12:09 pm - +Rama: This message was deleted

1/12/23, 12:09 pm - +Smiley face: There will be another round of opportunities to enter the property market!

Back to 30 years ago, properties were relatively cheaper then....BUT so did the wages, lowered too!

The concept of RELATIVITY.

1/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Rama: Agree

1/12/23, 12:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: Anyone have to pay deposit RM$1m above and insurance will accept buy reaident those are not cheap nor govt give subsidy need foreigner.


1/12/23, 12:10 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Singapore property values have been increasing steadily as reflected by the increasing rents and the property price sold - be it the HDB flats or private properties.


2. Hence raising the annual residential property value thresholds to determine eligibility for social support schemes - is a necessary measure - as the same people who should be receiving the social support schemes will fall off the schemes by virtue of the appreciating property values - but no actual monetary inflow to the household as they need to stay in the house.


1/12/23, 12:11 pm - +Smiley face: "Product? Profit? Policy?"

" When you change a structure and/or a matter into something new and new uses, you just created a new thing, a new way and a new idea. It's that simple!"

- - anonymity

1/12/23, 12:12 pm - +Smiley face: Open your eyes before you plunge...

1/12/23, 12:13 pm - +Smiley face: It's more happenings underground?

"Given the circumstances of the future of climate changes, population increases, ageing, and living conveniences... reimagining up to three basements of shops, stores, cinemas, bowling, library, markets and carparks, the sales revenue for these basement commercial units will cover more than a third of the costs of construction for a cluster of 15-20 blocks of flats. The sales price of flats would be kept affordable at the same time freeing up more ground space to build more flats, facilities, greenery and waterways."

- - anonymity

1/12/23, 12:13 pm - +Rama: Assest rich but cash poor for point 2

1/12/23, 12:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: I have opened my eyes get information but No I don’t plunge.

1/12/23, 12:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore is a place called home

1/12/23, 12:15 pm - +Rama: 👍🤝🙌👌👍

1/12/23, 12:15 pm - +Smiley face: Smart shopper!

1/12/23, 12:16 pm - +Smiley face: Cash converter.

1/12/23, 12:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: They can use cpf voluntary housing refund before or after 55 they don’t wish to sell. <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 12:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I think they're learning from UK. Own a Manor and continue to collect welfare hahaha

1/12/23, 12:21 pm - +Jimmy Chew: We all aim to game the system


1/12/23, 12:25 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Many are like that.

Many retirees stay in private property - but low in cash.


1/12/23, 12:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore future Ai what will be look like.

Coffeeshop:

seafood Ai robot cooking 3mins any menu no more chef cooking.

Stall will have machine ready pick foodstuffs or delivery 

Hawker stall will get small room reduce size and use smart machines maker foods

HDB building redevelopment will have a bee hive home

1/12/23, 12:27 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤣

1/12/23, 12:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Job system will change much faster business completion and current no more old job like cashier or else

1/12/23, 12:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: HDB bee hive home affordable and cheap one

1/12/23, 12:31 pm - +Frankie Wee: It’s just my imagination and ridiculous 😅

1/12/23, 12:36 pm - +Ben: Agreed!


1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dbs-uob-ocbc-banks-money-locking-features-protect-against-scams-3947701?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_27112023_cna


1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 12:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My comments:-

1. Money lock for savings that people want to protect (eg. Savings, FD) - government idea.


2. Digital in, Physical out.

OOB authentication (physical - air-gap) - bank visit

(My idea) .... 


My close friend comments: 

The other problem is scammer theives max out our credit card limit and take out loans.


My comments:-

These 2 loopholes also need to cover up.


1/12/23, 1:08 pm - +Rama: As mentioned by Minister Indranee Rajah in Parliament


1/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*OCBC*

1. Now only saving account can do moneylock via OCBC mobile apps.

But FD, loan application, credit limit - cannot be moneylock.

I feedback to OCBC bank officer, she say she will highlight to OCBC management.


1/12/23, 1:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*DBS*

1. Now only FD can be moneylock via website chatbot:-

posb.com.sg

(Type:- 

"lock fixed deposit" - under chatbot message)


2. Saving account moneylock can only be done via applying another account - DigiVault.

Available only by 7 Dec 2023.

Similarly loan application, credit limit - cannot be moneylock.

I feedback to DBS bank officer, she say she will highlight to DBS management.

I say online scammers can do online application of loan on victims bank account and then steal away the money from the saving account.

Victims then laden with debt and debt interest.

I say this loopholes must also be plugged.

She say she will feedback. <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 1:39 pm - +Rama: UOB!?🤷‍♂️


1/12/23, 1:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

UOB I don't know.

I no account.


1/12/23, 2:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

1/12/23, 2:46 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

💬 *What are your views on raising annual residential property value thresholds used to determine eligibility for social support schemes? How can we better assist families in need?* 

We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

1/12/23, 2:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can I return back my property CPF for retire because of reason lease expiry become ZERO value then CPF account will turn zero too. 

How do use CPF voluntarily housing refund and do not wish to sell.

1/12/23, 2:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: BRS and FRS will increase hard to met top up cash 😳

1/12/23, 2:53 pm - +Rama: Yes


1/12/23, 2:53 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think when property lease expires at 99 years for HDB flats - the value will not be 0.

I think government is working on VER (voluntary enbloc) to be able to monetise some money from the flats before the lease expires - if I am not wrong.


1/12/23, 2:54 pm - +KL: Mean richer will get richer

1/12/23, 2:55 pm - +KL: Cos freehold

1/12/23, 2:55 pm - +KL: That why good gdp doesn’t mean all citizen benefit from it

1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Not familiar to news 

There were Geylang Bahru 

hdb terrace house lease expired and land return to SLA. It’s said no value

1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +KL: The 60 years lease if I not wrong <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 2:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes


1/12/23, 2:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

How will freehold be richer if owners don't sell their property if they need to stay in it?

They are still asset rich but money poor.


1/12/23, 2:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t know whether pap govt care people to live on and we pay property tax.

1/12/23, 2:59 pm - +KL: You should tell this to the public and see how many agree, if the public agree than 

字如我心 ( their agreement will be my opinion) <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 3:01 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because based on logic, this is the case.


1/12/23, 3:02 pm - +KL: Most ppl in hdb will sell and move to smaller hdb or further hdb . Not sure why freehold can’t ?

1/12/23, 3:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/ndr-2023-14-million-singaporeans-aged-50-and-up-to-get-more-help-meeting-retirement-needs


1/12/23, 3:07 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Most people don't buy and sell hdb to move to a smaller flats to encash.

Unless you have statistics to say otherwise.


1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +KL: Than why govt build so many those aged ppl flat :)) also sort of encash by right ? <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Like I said HDB bee hive home cheap

1/12/23, 3:08 pm - +Sh Koh: If got choice.. why pple wanna do it ?

1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Size car park small one in future then how I think myself is ridiculous


1/12/23, 3:09 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Any statistics?

Most of my neighbors are still staying around me for many decades and didn't see people moving in and out.


1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +KL: You should ask hdb ,

1/12/23, 3:09 pm - +KL: As far as I know a number


1/12/23, 3:10 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh, so you are just guessing.


1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +KL: Some already even move to Thailand

1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +Frankie Wee: I don’t like Thailand


1/12/23, 3:10 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Millions of HDB owners, how many are like that? <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 3:10 pm - +KL: It not you want or don’t but no choice

1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +KL: Lol maybe but I remeber that time no one saw the nus report yet everyone was talking about it .

1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +Sh Koh: Ya... hopefully.. not.. and other ownself help ownself.. govt shld also do more

1/12/23, 3:12 pm - +KL: Not sure U live in hdb or also ? <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 3:13 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes I do


1/12/23, 3:13 pm - +KL: My district a lot move out


1/12/23, 3:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I purposely, innocently go to an offshore bank - Maybank and ask can savings and FD be moneylock to protect against online scammers?

This is to "buat bodoh" - using customers pressure to press offshore banks also to do moneylock to protect bank customers.

Maybank officer say only local banks are doing moneylock but not offshore banks.

I say offshore banks also need to protect bank customers against online scammers.

The bank officer start to look panicky.

I say good to feedback to your bank management.


1/12/23, 3:15 pm - +Rama: Good job!

1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think myself better live sacrifice in sg future no matter how hard and accepting at all cost

1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Likewise

1/12/23, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: But hurting HDB lease expiry return SLA and $0

1/12/23, 3:18 pm - +KL: Need to cos PR also buy hdb so if return got money , than you will find issue in long run

1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +KL: So govt is smart that it cut to zero cos hdb is not only for local . Resale are bought by non local / new citizen <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +Rama: Believe so

1/12/23, 3:19 pm - +KL: If not those millions dollar hdb who have money to buy ?

1/12/23, 3:45 pm - +GLCM: It's a step in a way in the right direction.

However, there are many cases which will unfortunately be categorised "inappropriately" due to compelling reasons even though they live in say.... bungalows. In that way, it will penalise them further from subsidies which they would  otherwise qualify for. 

So consider allowing an appeals channel for the relevant authorities to review the application to be re categorised or to apply for subsidies.

Most front line staffers will outright reject such appeals without batting an eyelid because they're following the "rules"... So in anticipation of these, any appeals should then be brought to the attention of "higher ups" without question.

1/12/23, 3:59 pm - +Rama: Agree

1/12/23, 4:32 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*


1/12/23, 4:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If freehold private property owners are forced to downgrade to sell their property and buy HDB flats - I can guarantee HDB resale flats will shoot up to $2 million - if these is what you want.


1/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: Competition marketing

1/12/23, 4:35 pm - +Frankie Wee: But hurt low income people


1/12/23, 4:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why some people complain without thinking of the consequences.

It will backfire on them.


1/12/23, 4:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: How about policy maker for those who wish freehold mins income allow them to buy resale of redevelopments. And are separate high income not allow buy HDB those who hold private land property wish to buy HDB rule within 20 years allow to them buy.


1/12/23, 4:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some high income earners are already discriminated due to income ceiling set by not allowing them to buy HDB flats.

They are force to buy EC or private property.

These are all talents that the country needs.

If government still implement policies that discriminate against them, all these talents will leave Singapore and work overseas.

Then Singapore will have no high income earners to tax and all lower and middle income will pay more and more GST and property tax and income tax. <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 4:43 pm - +Redzuan: Thresholds increase attracts more buyers in some specific segments. Sounds like a corporate way of doing it. To close the gaps to units that are empty/not favourable? 🫣

we have the Sandwich category, Sudden mishap in a family, ... blah blah...

Long list to go on.. 

Perhaps may start from this.. 

Eg, Families with bigger familes (with old parents or/and many children) but unable to afford bigger flats. Can govt think of this temp relief for these families? But they are also not trapped with bigger flat subsidies along the duration. How long? What is the criteria? Why the need? 

( *But must have heavy penalties to those who abuse this*)

.....

1/12/23, 4:45 pm - +KL: Real talent already attracted to no wealth tax leh the rest just freebies to them <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 4:45 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Until now, I still don't understand why Singaporeans who are of higher income - are being discriminated upon - not allowing to buy HDB flats - even though they can pay the full price without subsidies by creating an elite class.

Further discrimination policy against them will backfire if people don't understand the consequences.


1/12/23, 4:47 pm - +Rama: Good point


1/12/23, 4:47 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If you listen to what those talents are saying, you probably don't understand the consequences.

Talents are wanted everywhere in the world.

Trying further discrimination, then you will eat the fruits


1/12/23, 4:50 pm - +KL: You should create talent not attract talent

1/12/23, 4:50 pm - +KL: If you attract talent to create talent I think most voice would have silence


1/12/23, 4:51 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahahaha...

Trying creating talents to build GAI.

Nuclear fusion scientists.

Quantum computing scientists.

Etc.

Can you be trained to be one?


1/12/23, 4:52 pm - +KL: You always say those highest level technology how about lower one .


1/12/23, 4:52 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 4:53 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Lower one got high value added to GDP growth meh?


1/12/23, 4:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

HK policy miscues - talents flow out like water pipe leaking - and many are irreplaceable.


1/12/23, 4:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 4:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Only high tech talents can bring high GDP growth and contribute to high government revenue.

17.3% estimated $103 billion GDP generated by digital economy.


1/12/23, 4:58 pm - +KL: Competing / coding is lower than the 2 right ? In fact nuclear is a 1940 tech , due to the negative impact so most country won’t teach as well

1/12/23, 4:58 pm - +KL: I do agree computer is important but it started a bit too late I remember there once computeribg is a dumping ground for grad in 2004


1/12/23, 4:59 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Digital economy is about AI, machine learning, Generative AI, natural language, LLM, Quantum computing.

Nuclear fusion is different from nuclear fission.


1/12/23, 5:01 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not to mention blockchain, CBDC (central bank digital currency), mobile apps development, cloud computing, Cybersecurity etc

So many endless ....

So which is low end talents?

They all sounds like high end talents to me.


1/12/23, 5:05 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Quantum computing - superposition, Quantum Entanglement, ...

Nuclear fusion, fusion of deuterium,  tritium, hydrogen/helium atom fusion plasma to generate heat, steam turbine to generate electricity.

So need high tech talents ?

Low tech talents can?


1/12/23, 5:08 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 5:08 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 5:11 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://stackedhomes.com/editorial/live-in-johor-bahru-but-work-in-singapore-how-the-rts-link-is-reviving-interest-in-cheap-jb-properties

Johor Bahru But Work In Singapore? 

How The RTS Link Is Reviving Interest In Cheap JB Properties.


1/12/23, 5:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Malaysia intend to reverse the flow of talents from Singapore.


1/12/23, 5:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If Malaysia is successful to entice rich Singaporeans to buy properties in JB and work in Singapore.

Then Singapore will experience a large cash outflow into JB.

Singapore government will have less property tax, absd, stamp duty to collect.

Property values (HDB and private property) in Singapore will drop drastically.

Lower and middle income group in Singapore will have to pay higher and higher GST, income tax and other tax - as discriminated high income group move to JB to buy bungalows.

Then good luck to the lower and middle income group. <This message was edited>


1/12/23, 5:28 pm - +KL: Then why sg spent money on RTS ? Using tax payer money to cause this ? Don’t make sense :((

1/12/23, 5:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Can’t buy in JB they require Singapore open bank account in Maybank deposit RM$1m

1/12/23, 5:29 pm - +KL: I think he saying about super rich , but super rich not sure they will move in or not

1/12/23, 5:29 pm - +Frankie Wee: Better live sacrifice here 🙈🙈🙈🙈

1/12/23, 5:30 pm - +Frankie Wee: Possible for rich can hold overseas properties

1/12/23, 5:30 pm - +KL: Wait get kidnapped :)) so don’t think the super rich will move there <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 5:31 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Retired Singaporeans stay in JB and the super rich stay in Singapore to contribute jobs and progress and GDP

1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Clever way of maximising land mass

1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +KL: That why the KL rail if successful most local will be game over <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 5:32 pm - +KL: Not sure why no one speak for local

1/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Haha our kids won't wanna be butlers and servers Cf monte Carlo <This message was edited>

1/12/23, 5:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: HRS (High speed rail) project already agreed govt

1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Revived

1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Benefits for all

1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +KL: I think they will consider it but lost the heat cause sg lost 300 millions on it

1/12/23, 5:34 pm - +Rama: Yes


1/12/23, 5:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

So don't anyhow squeeze the local high income earners.

Once they get piss off, they will move.

They are highly mobile and wanted by foreign government and business all over the world.


1/12/23, 5:37 pm - +KL: You mean you should squeeze the low income earner ?


1/12/23, 5:37 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I didn't say that.


1/12/23, 5:37 pm - +Rama: 😄😳

1/12/23, 5:39 pm - +KL: Of course of course . you did not say that , haha but do remind one should not even think of that.


1/12/23, 5:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I only say be fair to all, including the high income earners.

Because they contribute the most in tax and GDP to Singapore and government coffers.

That's how low and middle income earners get the help from government.

The moment we treat high income earners like dirt or cow to milk - they will get piss off and move away.

Then all the lower and middle income will be the biggest sufferers.


1/12/23, 5:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 5:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

If we piss off the top 11% high income earners - that is the end of all your GST and COL grants.


1/12/23, 5:46 pm - +Rama: Yup

1/12/23, 5:50 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Our.kids will the top 10 richest in the third world countries as our SME becomes Singapore multinationals locates overseas

1/12/23, 5:51 pm - +Rama: Wonderful

1/12/23, 5:51 pm - +Redzuan: now there are lots of survey ...  rate 1-9.    i go with 3 on this

1/12/23, 5:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: I saw TikTok videos post japan house abandoned free $0 but only taxpayer and maintenance fee.

1/12/23, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*


1/12/23, 6:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 6:17 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: Already happening.


1/12/23, 6:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

1/12/23, 6:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: Already happening.


1/12/23, 6:28 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>


1/12/23, 6:29 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Even Tan kin lian bought a unit at JB.


1/12/23, 6:30 pm - +Ah Heng: human nature 0> will zone in where is cheap

1/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Ah Heng: yes it might be pocket freindly at that moment bu tin the long run is it really worthy

1/12/23, 6:31 pm - +Ah Heng: on the other hand what is our local leadership  team to do


1/12/23, 6:32 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Thus important our policy must make people welcome to stay in Singapore.


1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Search safe place where they more security than other 

Malaysia has high crime rate

1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Ah Heng: can they forever taxthe middle class while giving freebies to the low class while the rich class still get away with paying what can be more required to pay

1/12/23, 6:32 pm - +Ah Heng: welcome to stay and cost of living needs to go hand in hand


1/12/23, 6:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

The high income already contributed about 80% of the tax.


1/12/23, 6:33 pm - +Ah Heng: it cannot be welcome to stay but the cost of living will harbour the thught of cause to leave

1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: the rich should be made to pay more which some other countries i think do

1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: else the middle class will always be the one suffering

1/12/23, 6:34 pm - +Ah Heng: go see in public forum people (middle classes) are getting pissed!

1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: the govt cannot be surrounded by yes man and people who feedback what they wan to hear

1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: be like some of the old guard and the ex MRT ceo go down by yourself

1/12/23, 6:35 pm - +Ah Heng: feel the ground on regulars basis

1/12/23, 6:36 pm - +Ah Heng: and stop feeling the best (rate ourselves always under 90% ) so there is always the push for 10% for better performance

1/12/23, 6:37 pm - +Ah Heng: hong kong is a very good example of good feel of welcome but the cost of living (just rent itself) is a put off not to mentioned the cost of living is another nail to the coffin

1/12/23, 6:38 pm - +Ah Heng: japan too .. surface very nice but the cost of living (housing and work culture is not one will wish) but in terms of supplies they can be pretty wallet friendly

1/12/23, 6:38 pm - +Ah Heng: let's be the innovative country we used to be and not follow what other countries are doing ...

1/12/23, 6:40 pm - +Ah Heng: if anyone says Singapore is expensive and is hell to live life here, we should take that as a fact in the fact BUT also knowing we ae not the 1st in APAC to be so highly expensive but neither should we remain status quo

1/12/23, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊


1/12/23, 6:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

These are the world's most expensive cities to live in right now.                                                                                    Singapore rank top.                                                                                                                                      https://sg.yahoo.com/finance/news/these-are-the-worlds-most-expensive-cities-to-live-in-right-now-030927843.html


1/12/23, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 1 December, 2023

"Taxes and Taxing"

"Population is about people; the minimum of any good policy is to achieve a balance for as many people as possible..."

- - anonymity 

Nobody loves to pay more?

So what are the damages or unintended outcomes?

Besides the comparative costs competitiveness of nations. The latest property tax for citizens, it is another impact to stomach.

In simple words, many policies (political) challenges from the left to the right, in the coming GE or sooner it comes and the middle class happens to be the majority of voters. 

The cost of livings & housing are always sensitive political issue in any population. In life, people have multiple choices to decide and housing is the number one in the millions of minds whether is to own or to rent or to buy later; you need a roof over your head. This strategic asset is getting expensive. The other considerations are job, income, security and safety!

Why so tough?

The wider the wealth gap follows by the income gap which will quickly turned into a segregated society of the achievers, the aspirers, and the losers; two extreme ends and one in-between, that will be the permanent strata of our society!

How to compact or unite as many people as possible?

Continue to calibrate and align a bunch of fairer policies of taxonomy from food to taxes to fees to utilities and petrol price. The least lots that benefit the least shall foot the least fees or taxes? Sounds like we have been doing it and its on-going efforts to balance many tangibles! 

The challenges are in the bulk, aka the middle class income earners or households and low income families.

How can we not squeeze them at the same time not overly charging the higher income folks? As policymakers, it is a tough job to balance between affordability, accessibility and people!

How to win the hearts and the souls? Look for sweet spots (甜头), and make it sooner than later!

            - - in progress - -

1/12/23, 7:01 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

1/12/23, 7:01 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group


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