REACH 496 - What are your views on the doubling of Government-paid paternity leave and unpaid infant care leave? How can we further support young families in the area of childcare? 

(SK)

20 Sep 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

20/09/2023, 9:44 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

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Megan 😊

20/09/2023, 9:58 am - +REACH: *📢Topic 📢*

During the Parliament sitting on Tuesday (19 Sep), a Bill was passed in Parliament to double:

📌 Government-paid paternity leave from 2 weeks to 4 weeks,  

📌Unpaid infant care leave from 6 days per year to 12 days per year. 

Fathers who do not qualify for paternity leave under the Act because of their employment arrangements may instead be eligible for a government-paid paternity benefit of 4 weeks of an eligible father’s total income, which is a cash payment in lieu of the paternity leave. 

*💬 What are your views on the doubling of Government-paid paternity leave and unpaid infant care leave? How can we further support young families in the area of childcare?* 

Minister of State for Social and Family Development Sun Xueling, in her opening speech in Parliament, stated that the additional two weeks of government-paid paternity leave will be implemented on a voluntary basis so that employers have more time to adjust.

However, MOS Sun added that the amended Bill will allow the Government to reimburse employers who grant two additional weeks of paternity leave to eligible employees, doubling the reimbursement limits for employers. 

MOS Sun said that the Government wants to encourage more fathers to be more involved in their children’s growing years from the very beginning. She also added that local data from the Singapore Longitudinal Early Development Study showed several benefits of using paternity leave like increasing marital satisfaction significantly reducing children’s behavioural problems through the mediating effects of family dynamics.

In response to questions about the equalisation of parental leave, MOS Sun clarified “Maternity leave is provided for mothers to recuperate physically from childbirth and care for and bond with their children. Hence, it is longer than paternity leave, which allows for fathers to care for their wives and bond with their newborn child. This is also why maternity leave is longer than adoption leave.”

The Bill was passed in parliament in line with announcements made at Budget 2023 by DPM Lawrence Wong.

👉🏻 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/parliament-bill-passed-paternity-leave-benefit-unpaid-infant-care-leave-3782061

👉🏻 https://str.sg/iqqx

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wvpR

20/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

20/09/2023, 10:01 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

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20/09/2023, 10:51 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

*💬 What are your views on the doubling of Government-paid paternity leave and unpaid infant care leave? How can we further support young families in the area of childcare?*

Megan 😊

20/09/2023, 11:00 am - +Ah Heng: govt wants this company will then say sorry staff is useless cos take so many leaves

20/09/2023, 11:01 am - +Ah Heng: but such culture of family / work life balance will be greatly accepted in the west why the double standards of mnc here then

20/09/2023, 11:01 am - +Ah Heng: is it because is asia?

20/09/2023, 11:02 am - +Ah Heng: sme no need say any one on leave or for a matter of fact mc will affect their so call "productivity"

20/09/2023, 11:43 am - +Smiley face: 20 September, 2023

" The Irony of Gender Equality and the Social Norms"

"Either you embrace equality of gender and the nurturing role or you lean-on women as the primary care givers of newborns and thereafter as  homemakers or homemakers cum career women; that's the life and endgame being a woman, is it the truth, let's face it?"

- - anonymity

The game of equality?

So what is the role of men in the family and the responsibilities of raising children; it's more than bringing the bacon home and put it on the dinning table? 

The first happiness! Will society, employers and policymakers accept and ready for the equal treatments and incentivises women whom may have limited choices shorten their careers for the family sake or in this case allowing women to exercise the rights on shortening their maternity leaves in exchange (no changed to the total leaves for both) with their husbands to take on the extra weeks of leaves to man the home and back to the workplace for the ladies? 

The second happiness! Let's exercise the flexibility to each young family letting the woman and the man decides on who, what, when, why, where and how to calibrate the leaves of absence to their needs from individual career to bringing up the child wholeheartedly and thereafter, children blossome to young adults. 

Happily watching your children growing up is a priceless experience and a lifetime of happiness, isn't it true !"

           - - in progress - -

20/09/2023, 11:55 am - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Child care indeed is a joint responsibility between mother and father.

2. The additional paternity leave mandated by the government for father and government paid leave to employers will indeed help to buy in employers to the additional leave.

Though some companies with tight manpower may find it difficult to do so.

3. However for a more comprehensive childcare support at home, a hybrid WFH and WFO interpersed between father and mother will be more sustainable.

20/09/2023, 12:02 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

4. Eg. Will be 3 days working at home, 2 days in office for mother.

3 days in office, 2 days working at home for father will be a nice arrangement to look after the children.

20/09/2023, 12:17 pm - +~L: Companies have plenty of time to prepare for the absence of a parent (6 months) so it's great to see Gov supporting more Fathers being able to participate in the joy and responsibility of a new born. <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 12:18 pm - +Rama: Local companies are blood sucking profit driven only!

20/09/2023, 12:18 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

5. Mother take care of child from Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Then Father take over from Thursday and Friday.

6. Both mother and father must develop the skills to be able to juggle between work at one hand and do childcare at the other hand.

7. Then this will be more sustainable in the long run.

8. Older children can be brought to pre-school and the parents can then concentrate on their work if they WFH.

And can bring their children to pre school and back.

20/09/2023, 12:18 pm - +~L: Assuming the whole 4 weeks doesn't have to be taken at once (what is the period of eligibility?) then Fathers and companies have flexibility to work around business needs as well as family needs.

20/09/2023, 12:19 pm - +Rama: Yes

20/09/2023, 12:19 pm - +Rama: Yes

20/09/2023, 12:20 pm - +Rama: Female staff are still at a disadvantage when pregnant!

20/09/2023, 12:21 pm - +Rama: Management will find ways to squeeze work out of employees!

20/09/2023, 12:26 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

As long as can produce output - location not important.

But the challenges is, when workers need to have face to face meeting.

Or there are needs to be in office to coordinate work with co workers and boss in a rush deadline.

Then the nice arrangement will not be possible.

Then the additional pay leave for father to step up will be useful.

It is not a perfect world, need to adjust, adapt, be flexible and work things out.

20/09/2023, 12:30 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I am flexible with my staff as long as they meet their deadlines and deliverables, I don't really care whether they're in the office. But if they don't perform then I have to watch them like a hawk because that's my Job to maximize my staff

20/09/2023, 12:30 pm - +Rama: Hard to separate personal time and space when WFH!

20/09/2023, 12:30 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Of course, if young couples stay near their parents will be the greatest help.

But like what I say, the world is not a perfect world.

My son not successful in bidding a BTO flat just a few blocks away from my flat.

Both me and my wife can take care of his children.

But not successful, can only suck thumbs.

Now have to plan for other alternatives.

Hybrid WFH and WFO interpersed between father and mother - will be the next best option.

20/09/2023, 12:30 pm - +Rama: Fair

20/09/2023, 12:31 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️😞

20/09/2023, 12:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Reapplication again and again

20/09/2023, 12:33 pm - +Jimmy Chew: I once allowed a staff member 7 days off to attend an urgent matter because he has no more annual leave. I took responsibility for his absence because he is an excellent worker.

20/09/2023, 12:33 pm - +Frankie Wee: Overalls ballot number

20/09/2023, 12:34 pm - +Jimmy Chew: At the end, it's the superior who understands and balanced between performance and care of staff <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 12:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh.

I still recall I work up to 3 am at home after returning from work - teleconferencing with my boss last time.

Separation of personal time and work is a luxury.

Juggling between personal time and work is an art.

Well that was my mode of operation for a few decades during my work life.

Separation of personal time and work comes only after retirement.

20/09/2023, 12:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

There is no concept of WFH and WFO last time.

Because after returning from work, boss still can call me at night.

20/09/2023, 12:37 pm - +Frankie Wee: Night shit working

20/09/2023, 12:37 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Your boss is bad 😭

20/09/2023, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Or there is a need to upgrade or maintain the system - which is only possible after 6 pm when people leave office.

Once I and my staff work from 6pm to next morning 6am.

Go home take shower, come back at 8am, prepare for people coming back to office - to ensure all systems running smoothly after upgrade or maintenance.

Else VIPs will be asking what happens, how come cannot login.

20/09/2023, 12:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Where got night shift working.

Only 1 shift.

20/09/2023, 12:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: What kind of job is it?

20/09/2023, 12:41 pm - +Darius Lee: Good move. But will employers and colleagues frown on those who take paternity leave? It requires more than just a change in law and policy, but there must be a change in mindset to recognise the role that fathers have (and should have) in taking care of children

20/09/2023, 12:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Short manpower who can cover duty.

20/09/2023, 12:43 pm - +Frankie Wee: This message was deleted

20/09/2023, 12:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

IT jobs.

20/09/2023, 12:46 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Only 3 infrastructure and 1 boss - looking after 4 big organisations of thousands over staff.

And have to serve more than 20 application IT staff. <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 12:47 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not a small company.

20/09/2023, 12:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: Big company with over 1,000 staffs no problem with department

20/09/2023, 12:51 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Rather, not a small Ministry.

20/09/2023, 12:57 pm - +Rama: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/new-silkroutes-ceo-jin-hian-charged-false-trading-goh-chok-tong-son-3784611

20/09/2023, 12:58 pm - +Rose M K Ho: Agree.

Such changes in policy do require _change in mindset_ , much more than just execution.

No point talking abt it.

The _doer_ (ie. Company / boss / superior) need to be "enlightened" .  

Giving employee time off is a way of retaining staff & gaining their loyalty in the long term .

In today's tight labour market, we need all hands on deck.

On the other hand, the employee shd also be trustworthy enuff not to take advantage of the situation & keep on skiving !

It takes two hands to clap! 

😉

20/09/2023, 1:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Compare last time - our early struggle with today's workforce - asking for 4 days work week, no disturbing after office hours and hybrid arrangement ---  today's workers are like working in a heaven.

Our earlier days is a real struggle - but yet we can bite the bullet and 身精百战。一人能挡半边天。

20/09/2023, 1:17 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

The only impact, breeding more babies have taken a toll.

20/09/2023, 1:21 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 1:21 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 1:23 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I check with ChatGPT which give me the lead.

And then I Google search based on the Act quoted by ChatGPT - food stalls and retailers must display price for each items.

It is a law.

Then wonder why fang cai can get away with not displaying each price for each dish items - and fleece the customers?

There are numerous news reports and complains by people on this issue on almost all corners of fang cai stalls, I think is time for enforcement actions.

20/09/2023, 1:30 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My colleagues and I, maximum 2 kids, minimum 1 kid.

20/09/2023, 1:35 pm - +Rama: Millennium generation and after are the culprits!

20/09/2023, 1:37 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not entirely true.

My son work like me.

At night, he will do his own r&d and pick up ivy league universities technical journal and work on it.

20/09/2023, 1:46 pm - +Rama: Your son is a rare gem

20/09/2023, 1:51 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh still remember.

For the first time, the concept of WFH and WFO is introduced - is the time when SARS hit.

Then we have to do a few things:-

1. Setup secure remote access with laptop.

At that time, there is no broadband, hence the 1st time, we successfully use ADSL modem dialup to access the company network.

2. Setup video conferencing for remote meeting in the laptop.

At the time got no zoom.

3. Group ourselves into 2 groups - and cannot mix.

4. Quickly roll out the above to VIPs first.

Then senior managers.

And then to all the staff.

5. And we document all our processes and procedures of WFH and WFO - to combat SARs.

6. And certainly, this should be the 1st predecessor draft to formulate the WFH and WFO to combat covid. <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 2:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/family-of-four-needs-6426-a-month-for-basic-standard-of-living-in-spore-says

20/09/2023, 2:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Need higher income met standard cost of living

20/09/2023, 2:02 pm - +REACH: *📢Topic 📢*

20/09/2023, 2:03 pm - +Rama: Great but will face abuse!

20/09/2023, 2:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Actually if only taking into account Basic needs even for current high inflation, for a family of 6 - 1 sole breadwinner, 5 dependants, $4,100 a month is sufficient to meet all expenses.

Provided if the family members use:-

1. Soap bar but not shower cream

2. Neighborhood clothings and not designer clothes

3. 3in1 coffee and not Starbucks coffee

4. Food court, kopitiam and not restaurant.

5. Local tour and not overseas tours.

6. No jewelry

7. No birkin Hermes Chanel bags - but neighbourhood bags.

Else even $10,000 a month also not enough.

20/09/2023, 2:34 pm - +Frankie Wee: What!!!! $10,000 is a lot still enough 🤦

20/09/2023, 2:35 pm - +Rama: For a six room hdb flat family possibly

20/09/2023, 2:36 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore cost of living a family life very touch but work hard all this kindly spent to end.

20/09/2023, 2:38 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

The $6,426 expenses a month for a family of 4 - is exorbitant and the family is basking in luxury goods and not basic needs.

20/09/2023, 2:38 pm - +Rama: With no savings for a rainy day!

20/09/2023, 2:38 pm - +Frankie Wee: Salary $10,000 must be high position. Even I can work McDonald’s salary $10,000 is so great standard living.

20/09/2023, 2:54 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

*💬 What are your views on the doubling of Government-paid paternity leave and unpaid infant care leave? How can we further support young families in the area of childcare?*

Megan 😊

20/09/2023, 2:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/netizens-surprised-nus-undergrads-starting-pay-2101041

20/09/2023, 2:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore can expectations in future

20/09/2023, 2:57 pm - +Rama: Blady immature millennium!

20/09/2023, 2:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: 10-20 years they can retire like that

20/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: Student think the future life is so easy because Singapore is rich nation

20/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Smiley face: "you said it's wrong; they said is correct?"

" you said is correct; they said otherwise!"

20/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Any boss can offers them salary $10,000 monthly

20/09/2023, 3:03 pm - +Rama: Not the civil service!

20/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://blog.seedly.sg/salary-guide-singapore/

20/09/2023, 3:04 pm - +Coconut Tree: Contract O&M positions can hit $15k pm, 6 day workweek.

20/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Coconut Tree: only need about 6-8 years experiance.

20/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes I heard

20/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: They have education degree or BA

20/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +Smiley face: $5,000 to $50,000?

Aspirations: Parents want their children better them; the children want their children to be even better than them; the grandparents want everyone better and the best is yet to be?

Is this a universal human value or an Asian value?

20/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: 2030-2040 salary starter will be higher

20/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Smiley face: Why so?

20/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Yes

20/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Because of cost living level will increase

20/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Yes

20/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Not like in 1990s

20/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Smiley face: Either a young person aspires to do well or excel or you have young people losing hope and lying flat now and then...is it correct or is it wrong?

20/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Rama: Look back to 1980

20/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: 1997 world finances crisis reach this year 2023 price is different

20/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Smiley face: Developing stage and the Global economics growth was unlike the last 20 years, accelerated growth for the World.

20/09/2023, 3:19 pm - +Smiley face: Inflation

20/09/2023, 3:25 pm - +Frankie Wee: The whole going to change new environment and economy. They know and know what will happen Russia over war. 

Ai job and human dignity life will never know every price to pay for inflation level.

20/09/2023, 3:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Singapore has no rule fair wage laws who get pay low and not enough they will never know in future going to change.

20/09/2023, 3:28 pm - +Rama: Is mankind prepared!?

20/09/2023, 3:29 pm - +Umar M: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/new-silkroutes-ceo-jin-hian-charged-false-trading-goh-chok-tong-son-3784611

Worrying that a son of a former PM is charged for such a grave offence.

20/09/2023, 3:31 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Soap bar 50 cents Vs shower cream ($7.90) my wife told me.

2. 3in1 coffee 13cents Vs Starbucks $6.70.

3. Neighborhood shirt $10 Vs designer shirt $50 (estimated)

4. Daiso slippers ($2) Vs high class retail slippers $10 (estimated)

5. Food court, kopitiam $20 3 person Vs restaurant $100 (estimated)

6. Local tours $100 3 person Vs $1,000 per person overseas tours.

7. No jewelry Vs $1,000 diamond ring (estimated)

8. Soap bar 50 cents Vs $100 perfume (estimated)

9. Neighborhood bag $20 versus Birkin bag $1,000 (estimated)

Of course, NTU lkyspp study need $6,426 a month for a family of 4.

Will ntu lkyspp report open to the public for scrutiny - then we can compare item by item - whether the report can stand water or not. <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 3:35 pm - +Coconut Tree: Your Birkin missing a few 0s  😜😜😜

20/09/2023, 3:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh really???

You see, I don't belong to the high class - that is why l frog in the well.

20/09/2023, 3:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: I feeling the job won’t stay least forever if want go change for better start prepare. Every 5 years change and change. Some of boss bankrupt because they never change new develop.

20/09/2023, 3:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: Same as old machine will become computer next generation will ultra smart watch

20/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Smiley face: How to prepare?

What to prepare?

20/09/2023, 3:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Upgrade skill or starter a better job

20/09/2023, 3:44 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cheque will no long become e-payment like PayNow or transfer

20/09/2023, 3:51 pm - +Smiley face: One clear vision is the Specialisation of skills and jobs will have a shorter lifespan and shorten products life cycle all because of technological breakthroughs, innovations & inventions, automations & AI as the next automates of the workplace!

20/09/2023, 3:54 pm - +Smiley face: "The Architecture of a business or any organisation all have their complex structures built-in placed to process and for progressions. It is savvy for management and managers to decide often to be tempted in a situation of labor shortages or lacking the 'right person for the job' to right sized; it is instinctively and self profess for managers to bypass the human aspects of subjective workloads and to overly cutting off workers in achieving the transformations, the ultimate KPI and profitability."

- - anonymity

20/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.icts.com.sg/what-is-robotic-assisted-thoracic-surgery-in-singapore/

20/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +Frankie Wee: Cut manpower assist turn into robot assist

20/09/2023, 3:59 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I will like to say that AI, robotics will greatly complement and help humans in productivity.

But AI and robotics cannot fully replace humans.

20/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Feel sorry human nothing job but take other different job than current

20/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +REACH: *📢Topic 📢*

20/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Total agreed

20/09/2023, 4:05 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I did a trial on ChatGPT and see whether ChatGPT can replace humans as a formidable worker.

I realise AI ChatGPT cannot beat a human.

To test ChatGPT intelligence, I start with abstract concepts.

And test it using various angles.

AI ChatGPT either produce a half correct and half wrong answer.

Or it go into hallucination and fabricate a false answer.

This is despite I train it with the right answer and test it again a day later.

Without human senses, feeling, consciousness, perception and mental judgement to pick up subtle stimuli - relying on math permutation, linear equations, and math model - it is unable to rationalize and produce the intelligence of a human being.

20/09/2023, 4:06 pm - +Smiley face: It's a Precision engineering process, this procedure happens to be a medical procedure...

20/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Smiley face: Feelings, emotions and people to people's interactions...

20/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Smiley face: Early days of generative AI or aka the learning machines...

20/09/2023, 4:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Fast developing than thinking when human can useful assistance

20/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Smiley face: High volume of transactions or highest level of Precision processes, computer or super computing will excel over humans. Totally no basis to compare or no brainer not to adopt it...

The fastest counting and processing shall win it all...it literally means ALL!

20/09/2023, 4:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Regurgitation of facts and speed in computing yes - AI ChatGPT win hands down.

But conceptualising new ideas, creative and innovative solutions - ChatGPT level belongs to the primary students level.

20/09/2023, 4:13 pm - +Smiley face: Here comes another interesting paradigm:

Tesla vs BYD self drive systems, aka modular and algorithmic synthesis!

The question is which 6G global positioning platform will excel over the rest. And the following question is the disruptive and errors in transmitting these codes will have profound commercials and military advantages over any player.

It's all about transparency and transactional.

20/09/2023, 4:13 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: The surgeon is still needed to manipulate/instruct the machine to reach its intended target. It’s just that surgeons hands no need to be so steady as before. Usefulness of surgeons last longer.

20/09/2023, 4:13 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

It is good in aggregating ideas.

But not coming out with new innovative ideas.

20/09/2023, 4:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: Yes.

20/09/2023, 4:14 pm - +~L: LLMs, or Language Models, are awful at Facts, since they basically make stuff up. They are excellent at processing and analysing text. <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 4:15 pm - +Smiley face: Collaboratively, a group of surgeons are borderless coming into the OT to perform the Ops, in the quickest time and all done!

20/09/2023, 4:15 pm - +~L: My friend is a partner in a law firm and their conclusion is that ChatGPT will make half their junior lawyers redundant.

20/09/2023, 4:16 pm - +Smiley face: Natural language and future languages will evolve into both organic and quantitative models to derive a unique set of codes, in hope of unbreakable codes?

20/09/2023, 4:16 pm - +~L: if a computer can create a code, then a computer can break a code

20/09/2023, 4:16 pm - +Smiley face: There goes the junior lawyers...fewer

20/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

To show an example how ChatGPT fabricate and hallucinate answers based on abstract concepts despite having all the scripture text input into ChatGPT.

And despite telling ChatGPT the right precise answer, ChatGPT still get it wrong.

Let see the example.

20/09/2023, 4:17 pm - +~L: ChatGPT can't do maths. It's not a search engine. It puts words together.

20/09/2023, 4:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: All you need read assistance ChaGPT thereafter done

20/09/2023, 4:18 pm - +Frankie Wee: Keying typewriter speed

20/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +Smiley face: Unique codings, it's more than coders could imagine today.

The fight now is about speed and thereafter a new level of machine languages will emerge....that's for sure!

Google, Meta and MS are working separately and rumours that two of them or three are collaborating on a new language system to beat the Chinese! All for one and one for All!

20/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Idea work human creator to support Ai all development

20/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +Smiley face: Sooner these chatbots will flood the consumers market like soya sauce

20/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I prompt ChatGPT for a response to depict in picture form - how does Nirvana look like.

ChatGPT provide 4 answers.

2 are correct.

Number 1 and 4.

But ChatGPT is wrong to say the Dharma Wheel doesn't directly depict Nirvana itself, only a representation.

Look like the person who input to ChatGPT only attain a proxy to Nirvana (a Sotapanna) - but not an Arahat.

A Sotapanna attain 1st proxy to Nirvana.

A Sagadagami a 2nd proxy.

An Anagami a 3rd proxy.

Only an Arahat attain the Full Nirvana.

Bodhisattva attain twice Full Nirvana.

Buddha attain thrice Supreme Nirvana.

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - +Smiley face: Cheaper to adopt, buy and use in any offices! Just like Microsoft softwares...

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: Day 1

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: It can! Try asking it to come out with a program to compute the coefficients of a polynomial to fit a curve.

20/09/2023, 4:20 pm - +Smiley face: Who will be the big winners?

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

ChatGPT is not invincible.

It cannot defeat a human intelligence.

It sometimes give the wrong answer.

I challenge ChatGPT in different angles, it give me different answers.

Some are half right, some are wrong.

Most of the time, ChatGPT seems to be copying the script eg. Buddhist text scripture.

But when ask the direct experience, it gives the wrong answer.

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: Yes.

It didn't give me the answer I want.

It is good in picking up facts, and information.

But not good at reasoning, intellectual discussion or insights.

So I am quite comfortable that ChatGPT cannot replace human beings.

ChatGPT also cannot be left alone to formulate government policies.

It can go the wrong way.

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

The pictorial representation of Nirvana presented by ChatGPT is a hallucination.

It try to smoke its way through.

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

In abstract concepts - ChatGPT level is only a primary education level.

It means a primary students can present the right facts better than ChatGPT in abstract concepts.

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

 

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - +Smiley face: Exactly, even for complex engineering or architecture structural matters...

What a team of civil and structural engineers need to accomplish in 30 days, the chatbots will do it in one day or shorter time!

20/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Day 2 - ChatGPT hallucinating and try to smoke its way.

20/09/2023, 4:23 pm - +Smiley face: After the smoke is gone, you will see it clean and clear!

Wait lah....lol

20/09/2023, 4:24 pm - +Smiley face: MIT aerospace engineering is redefining aerodynamics with the latest prototype of wings that are both efficient and speedy!

20/09/2023, 4:25 pm - +REACH: Dear contributors,

please be reminded to keep to the topic that is being discussed. We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!

Megan 😊

20/09/2023, 4:26 pm - +Smiley face: Let's talk about maternity leaves...

20/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Smiley face: One way, may be there is a need to encourage especially the newly wed couples; for the first five years of marriage life to attend scheduled family planning and counselling to check on each other that they are both satisfied, happy and the family is alright too!

Importantly, seek out any early signs of discontent or disputes over tangibles and intangibles. 

Money issues and/or  in-laws issues, child care issues, or siblings rivalry can be a sparking point for a rougher journey ahead and subsequent quarrels involving either or both couples or the entire extended family and leading to divorce.

20/09/2023, 4:32 pm - +Rama: I look forward to this.

20/09/2023, 4:33 pm - +Rama: Expect some form of water down explanation!

20/09/2023, 4:35 pm - +Rama: .

20/09/2023, 4:42 pm - +Smiley face: DOUBLE the existing Grant and packages for young families especially with those with TWO kids !

One, to encourage TWO kids or more

Two, in view of the stubborn inflation and the consequences of rising costs of raising a child/children.

Three, there is a need to check the true costs of raising a child or two children from birth to 21 yrs old. 

Four, after which, parents will have to refocus on their next step that is their grown ups is getting married, that's another expense to think about!

20/09/2023, 4:45 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/singapore/mof-consider-having-solely-age-based-components-majulah-package

MOF to consider having solely age-based components in Majulah Package.

20/09/2023, 4:45 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Champion!

Mof have heard my appeal!

20/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +Smiley face: How about preferential income tax for TWO kids and onwards?

The more kids, the higher the tax breaks?

Also for future BTO, this family children will have an extra chance to ballot a flats?

One child's family will have minimal breaks.

20/09/2023, 4:46 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:48 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Smiley face: Contract workers, let's also include in these paternal and maternal grants or cash payouts.

20/09/2023, 4:53 pm - +Frankie Wee: A small or amount token accepted gift than get nothing leave no one behind

20/09/2023, 4:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 4:55 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Good that MP Denise phua and Edward chia bring it into parliament.

And good that MOF and MOS Chee Hong Tat acknowledged and willing to accommodate - in the spirit of "leave no one behind". <This message was edited>

20/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Rama: Yes

20/09/2023, 4:59 pm - +Smiley face: Triple grants & packages for three kids?

$1,000 for delivery of baby and hospitalisation plus free consultations DURING trimester pregnancy period?

Triple the chance to ballot for a BTO?

20/09/2023, 5:00 pm - +Smiley face: Two kids, $2,000 fess, half consultation fees?

Two chances for BTO?

20/09/2023, 5:01 pm - +Smiley face: First kid, $3,000 fees? Consultations, 25% discount?

20/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Ken: To be frank not easy to bring up kids in Singapore not just the money

20/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: How about IVF costs?

20/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, money does come with ease of mind?

The rest of raising a child is all left to the family...

20/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Ken: IVF is required means having lower chance of baby.. due to various reasons physically…

By encouraging IVF, is it really good?

20/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Ken: Depends on your job… if easy yes you have time…

If not.. more kids does it means better?

20/09/2023, 5:04 pm - +Smiley face: Some couples want kids but due to fertility issues, unable?

Some of these couples tend not to adopt kids?

20/09/2023, 5:04 pm - +Ken: I would think adopting would be good.. but then again not everyone have a big heart

20/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Couple to be like wife and husband without a kid in family

20/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Smiley face: There must be a love for children and pre marriage counseling will help couples to realise the responsibilities of a marriage and so on....family planning

20/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Ken: Rather spend thousands than to adopt, is preference I guess

20/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Smiley face: Subjective....

20/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Ken: Love for kids… and having them is different I think…

20/09/2023, 5:06 pm - +Smiley face: Reality...

20/09/2023, 5:06 pm - +Smiley face: No kids, no marriage?

20/09/2023, 5:06 pm - +Ken: And yes I have two now 😅

Not easy man…

20/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Smiley face: Good job, Ken!

Sure you know how to raise kids! Thanks

20/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Good bring your kid happiness and joy in family

20/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Ken: 😂😂😂 to be frank I have no clue… just learn as you go..

20/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +Smiley face: Is a joy, priceless experience

20/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Smiley face: Also can....hey, there are tons of good books on child psychology etc... pls read a bit...you will learn a few good pointers too!

Point 1, learn to let it go!

20/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Ken: Priceless… yes 

fulfilling? Depends on time and your aspirations. 

To me half half.. need a balance

20/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Ken: Every kid is different if everything is written in books no bad kids Liao

20/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Smiley face: It's how you SEE it!

Positive or negative?

Willing and meaningful or hassle?

20/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Ken: Willing? Yes

Meaningful? Sort of if not won’t have 2 😂

Hassle… if yes don’t have kids please

20/09/2023, 5:10 pm - +Smiley face: Of cos, every tree is different too!

Don't let the tree slant or it will be tough to get it straightened!

The first 6 years and into the 16th year....your trees!

20/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +Smiley face: What is life?

Why procreate?

Who says so?

Where to find happiness?

How to coexist meaningfully?

That's the beauty of life and many folks see it as mystery!

20/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Smiley face: Tuition and the rigour of education are putting the young couples away from having kids? Plus the bills to pay for, month to month and YTY!

20/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +Smiley face: So what is happiness and what is the truth in it? Or otherwise?

20/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Smiley face: Bring the tuitors into the schools and let the teachers rest?

Just thinking wildly!

20/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Smiley face: Teachers are quitting to become tutors? Why?

Pressure or money or?

20/09/2023, 5:18 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

All my batch and cohorts jump with joy and say hurray!

20/09/2023, 5:19 pm - +Rama: Worth considering

20/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +Rama: Procreation is costly!

20/09/2023, 5:26 pm - +Smiley face: If so, stop creating?

20/09/2023, 5:28 pm - +Smiley face: Talents come, talents go, Talents' time!

20/09/2023, 5:34 pm - +Smiley face: So when a country's population is ageing at an accelerated rate,  one way is to admit new people into its country to not only contribute but to sustain the necessities of living. It is now or never; it is a generational gap to fill and not letting this gap of ageing grow bigger that eventually becomes hopeless to salvage....

20/09/2023, 6:14 pm - +65 9654 2001: Can GOV actually consider to offer free or minimal subsidy for eye operation to improve the vision of Singaporeans. 

India is providing this for its residents at very affordable rate like minimal 6000 rupees to for lens insertion. 

And the feedback, many especially elderlies have gain back full vision. 

Elderlies who had blurred vision before the operation, has better and sharp vision after the operation. 

Hope the Govt can consider this option.

20/09/2023, 6:14 pm - +Rama: Procreation policies need major upgrade!

20/09/2023, 6:16 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, yup, ya!

COE prices just came out....up, up, up

20/09/2023, 6:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Car going down less business buy COE $144k

20/09/2023, 6:17 pm - +Smiley face: Affordable or getting tougher having kids?

Old times, you tikam and have kids?

Today, you need to have tactics with kids?

20/09/2023, 6:18 pm - +Smiley face: Demand is there...

20/09/2023, 6:30 pm - +Rama: 😳😆😁

20/09/2023, 6:30 pm - +Rama: 😆😁

20/09/2023, 6:39 pm - +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/askst-do-i-still-need-a-covid-19-booster-jab-now-that-the-pandemic-is-over

20/09/2023, 6:49 pm - +65 9753 9655: Cooling measures not working..  should remove e goat's stockpile from this. Esp taxis

20/09/2023, 6:50 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *10 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

20/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: MM Lee Kuan Yew, his wisdom and departing words...

20/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan  😊

20/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

20/09/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group

====

REACH 495 - What are your thoughts on the announcement of the public transport fares hike and the support measures introduced for lower income households and lower wage workers?

(SK)

19 Sep 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

19/09/2023, 9:45 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from *10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

*House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:* 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

*Full set of Terms of Use:* https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

19/09/2023, 9:58 am - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

On Monday 18 September, the Public Transport Council (PTC) concluded the Fare Review Exercise (FRE) 2023 and announced an overall fare increase of 7.0% for commuters, about a third of the 22.6% maximum quantum for public transport fares. While commuters bear 7.0% of the increase in fares, the Government will bear the remaining 15.6% points of fare adjustment through an additional subsidy of $300 million. This will take effect from 23 December 2023.

MOT will cap the increase in concession card fares for lower-wage workers (LWWs) and Persons with Disabilities (PwDs). The Government will also make available Public Transport Vouchers (PTV) for lower-income Households to cope with the fare hike.

*💬 What are your thoughts on the announcement of the public transport fares hike and the support measures introduced for lower income households and lower wage workers?*

*▶️ Bus & Train Fares (From 23 December 2023)*

📌 Concession card fares (4-5 cents increase per journey)

📌 Adult card fares (10-11 cents increase per journey)

📌 Bus cash fares (10 cents increase for students, seniors and PwDs, 10 cents increase for adults and other commuters)

📌 Up to 10% reduction in prices hybrid (bus-and-rail) monthly concession pass

*▶️ Support Measures*

📌 New Workfare Transport Concession Scheme (WTCS) introduced, a hybrid monthly concession pass to better support lower-wage workers including students, seniors and full-time National Servicemen.

📌 Public Transport Vouchers (PTVs) worth $50 each, up from $30 previously, for eligible households with monthly income per person of not more than $1,600.

👉 Public transport fare hike: Adults to pay 10 to 11 cents more per journey from Dec 23 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/mrt-bus-fare-increase-10-11-cents-public-transport-council-3779086

👉 Additional $300M Government Support to Moderate Fare Increase

https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/additional-300m-government-support-to-moderate-fare-increase

👉 Public Transport Vouchers Available to Provide Support for Lower-Income Households

https://www.mot.gov.sg/news/details/public-transport-vouchers-available-to-provide-support-for-lower-income-households

👉 Revised fare adjustment formula (2023 - 2027)

https://www.ptc.gov.sg/docs/default-source/default-document-library/fre-2023-annex-a-and-annex-b-pdf-(297-kb).pdf

19/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

19/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

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19/09/2023, 10:17 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: When it rains it pours! 🙁

In view of the energy price increases and wage increases, end consumers need to bear the costs.  The grants would help a bit.

However, I hope that more efforts are made to see where other revenues can be obtained from MRT spaces. eg: maximise retail spaces to help subsidize transport operations; empty spaces below MRT tracks.   Previously when the lady CEO was in charge, the retail operations were very healthy.  Unfortunately, she didn't focus on maintenance and reliability sufferred.  Seems to me that current smrt CEOs focus on reliability and not much on retail rental income.  Need a mixture of both types of CEO.

Then there is the lowering of cost of operations by not air conditioning bus terminus and putting in giant fans instead.

19/09/2023, 10:23 am - +~L: Less than $50 per year for a working person doing a daily commute. Best transport system in the world. I'd like to see more support for the lower income where it makes the biggest difference. If they have transportation then they can access all of Singapore free recreation facilities and social support structure more easily with no cost to the public purse. This would be good for families, kids etc. Maybe provide less overall subsidy and channel that money to the lower income families. It would only add around 3c per journey for everyone else - $15 per year.

19/09/2023, 10:25 am - +~L: What would the Adult increase be if there was no increase on concession cards? 📌 Concession card fares (4-5 cents increase per journey)

📌 Adult card fares (10-11 cents increase per journey)

19/09/2023, 10:34 am - +Rama: 👌

19/09/2023, 10:34 am - +Smiley face: For Students and Seniors,  you  can opt to purchase a monthly Pass that costs $32/mth. A student pass should be cheaper!

19/09/2023, 10:35 am - +Rama: I thought the new seniors concession is sgd96! ?

19/09/2023, 10:36 am - +Smiley face: Yes, not expensive for a Mass public transportation system.

Do research on other developed countries Public fares, the quality, the frequency and connectivity too.

19/09/2023, 10:37 am - +Smiley face: Seniors and students who often take buses, trains urged to use cheaper monthly travel passes  

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/ptc-urges-seniors-students-who-take-buses-trains-a-lot-to-switch-to-cheaper-monthly-travel-passes

19/09/2023, 10:39 am - +Smiley face: The complete MRT system into 2030 should have 300km of tracks connecting the entire SG township. That's a game changer and redefining a  matured or non-matured estate into ONE SG.

19/09/2023, 10:44 am - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

19/09/2023, 10:45 am - +Smiley face: A true testimony of our previous generations of leaders, great fore sights and today SG we are all proud of...

It doesn't matter if we fork out a bit more! Why? More than three decades ago, folks then paid their price to build it and they benefitted the convenience of moving around, from their homes to their  workplaces! 

That's the meaning of ENABLE!

19/09/2023, 10:46 am - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/DnfsYldEE7M?si=J520TPiHCOzOrF2w

Part 1

19/09/2023, 10:46 am - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/-C1y6sKUv3k?si=WpBwikMlpn1sudHB

Part 2

19/09/2023, 10:47 am - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>

19/09/2023, 10:49 am - +Ken: For the efficiency of Singapore public transport… consider very decent.. 

Just need more help for the vulnerable

19/09/2023, 10:50 am - +Ken: I gladly pay for current rate… as long as they give a decent accountability and share the cost since no competition. Should give more information on what is done. To give public a better sense on what the money is spend on.

19/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Ken: Which I don’t need to wait 30 mins for bus.. and having so many alternative ways to travel to a location

19/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Smiley face: Hi Ken, a good and compassionate thought from you... perhaps our policymakers will look into this noble idea for our vulnerable people who only means of transportion is either MRT or Buses or both or walking...

Thanks, Ken!

19/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Rama: Yes

19/09/2023, 10:51 am - +Smiley face: Enable!

19/09/2023, 10:51 am - +~L: Agreed!

19/09/2023, 10:52 am - +Smiley face: All of these coming extensions and extensions NEED MONEY!

19/09/2023, 10:52 am - +~L: Yes, it's a good idea. Transparency will reassure people it's valid

19/09/2023, 10:54 am - +Smiley face: Do you really think that the mass Public tpt is making good profits?

Previously, anonymity has presented China's domestic HSR system that covered over 3600km, yet it is a lost making project into the billions of dollars, annually!

19/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: Singapore will spent future AI transport public

19/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Jimmy Chew: I agree the transparency will reassure people it's valid, but then the cost is the issue. They got t keep it down innovatively, what's the use of collecting data not adjusting the trips to needs. I took a coupleof buses during off peak and they are empty, I am happy but the cost to the nation and the environment. Do we need buses to ply every 10 to 15 mins empty? They need to get creative with ideas to reduce cost and efficiency, haha that's what they are paid for, they raising prices so that they can be paid too

19/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: https://landtransportguru.net/imagining-the-bus-of-tomorrow/

19/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Frankie Wee: https://landtransportguru.net/imagining-the-bus-of-tomorrow/

19/09/2023, 10:56 am - +Smiley face: The economics of a Mass Public Mover may not necessarily be highly profitable. The importance is to move people and the consequential benefits shall befall into many multiplier effects of a country's economic development! An uplifting of the standard of living for the population.

19/09/2023, 10:57 am - +Smiley face: Autonomous Bus in motion with 5/6G connectivity, no disruptions and personal and public safety too!

19/09/2023, 11:05 am - +Frankie Wee: Cool

19/09/2023, 11:41 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

*💬 What are your thoughts on the announcement of the public transport fares hike and the support measures introduced for lower income households and lower wage workers?*

Megan 😊

19/09/2023, 11:55 am - +~L: Yes, although sometimes they have to run the buses to get them to the required terminals so they can pick up people on the way back. Lots of people leave town in the evening so buses need to get into town, even though not many people are going into town.

19/09/2023, 11:56 am - +~L: They have masses of data on where people are travelling when, I'm sure it's not perfect (people are not 100% predictable).

19/09/2023, 11:57 am - +~L: Exactly. You cannot quantify exactly, but common sense and logic tell us that PT is essential for work, social, recreation, tourism etc etc

19/09/2023, 12:54 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors*

We want to *HEAR MORE* from you! 

*💬 What are your thoughts on the announcement of the public transport fares hike and the support measures introduced for lower income households and lower wage workers?*

Megan 😊

19/09/2023, 12:56 pm - +Umar M: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/murder-remains-pot-daughter-father-pleads-guilty-3781291?cid=internal_sharetool_iphone_19092023_cna

19/09/2023, 12:56 pm - +~N: Pardon me, missed this. The report is a reasonably accurate reflection of living costs for local households. I'm not sure why the ministries find it necessary to argue that a $1.5K monthly living expenses for an average adult is questionable.

The report might not have considered all household composites, but it is already a better report than the ministries'

19/09/2023, 12:59 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️😢

19/09/2023, 1:01 pm - +Rama: The Minister or ministers are not earning sgd1.5K so easy to question!

19/09/2023, 1:02 pm - +~N: I'm not sure what I'm paying for. Is it a seat on the train, less sardine-packed rides, a more reliable transport system, higher frequency /shorter wait intervals? what am I paying for....

19/09/2023, 1:03 pm - +Rama: Definitely not seat on the train!

19/09/2023, 1:04 pm - +Caleb: +1

19/09/2023, 1:05 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Sorry. How do you get $50 per year? <This message was edited>

19/09/2023, 1:06 pm - +Jimmy Chew: You meant increase?

19/09/2023, 1:28 pm - +Frankie Wee: Salary need adjust income to feed their own family expenses $1,500 due to high inflation rate.

19/09/2023, 1:40 pm - +Jimmy Chew: $1500/30 = $50 per day. For how many in family. If consider 4? $50/4 = $20 per person per day hahaha for 3 meals? Excluding transportation, housing and education and emergencies, parents and in laws. <This message was edited>

19/09/2023, 1:54 pm - +~L: Related to transport.... we are seeing better infrastructure for bikes, maybe now time to offer city centre underground parking. Lots of people could use this to relieve the morning burden on the trains, and LTA could still earn revenue from the parking fees: https://www.designboom.com/technology/eco-cycle-automated-underground-parking-bicycles-japan-08-08-2017/

19/09/2023, 1:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: $1,500 per monthly is a lot 

Mean that couple earn salary each $750 (salary $1,500 thereafter CPF $1,200 cash in)

19/09/2023, 1:55 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think mean for spent outing

19/09/2023, 1:55 pm - +~L: Yes, approx. $1.10 per week minus weeks not working (holiday, ph etc)

19/09/2023, 1:57 pm - +~L: High Frequency = less crowded train/platform, less need to wait for next train. No one can expect seats on each train during rush hour. The maths shows there would need to be trains every minute....

19/09/2023, 1:58 pm - +~L: Agreed - we were asking to see how the calculations were made to assess if it's generally considered reasonable .

19/09/2023, 1:59 pm - +Frankie Wee: Every parent give allowance for child $200/monthly

19/09/2023, 2:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Child need

-Transportation public unlimited 

-mobile billed

-school fee

-meal or outing

19/09/2023, 2:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Parent don’t have much money saving for child support when they grow up start new job basic is $2,900

19/09/2023, 2:02 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

19/09/2023, 2:14 pm - +Rama: Add sgd500 additional for each adult

19/09/2023, 2:25 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Just noting the fact, that for this year public transport fare increase, PTC announce 7% increase in fares and Government subsidise 15.6% increases.

The 7% increase in fare hike is more than 5% or lower in previous years.

The justification of the fare hikes are due to :-

a. Lower ridership vis-a-vis in comparison to pre-pandemic

b. High energy cost

c. Higher salaries for transport workers.

2. I am concern about a. Lower ridership.

3. Just wonder what account for the lower ridership - as the Government is promoting car-lite, whereby people are discouraged to own cars as observed by the zero-growth COE quota, and the 6 figures COE prices in every COE bid?

4. Rightfully, ridership in public transport should have gone up and not go down - as more people are not owning cars and taking public transport.

5. Another thoughts come to my mind, is the lower ridership due to WFH - whereby lesser people are required to report to work and allow to work from home?

Just guessing as I don't have statistics to back up my statement.

6. Read one participant suggestion that as MRT CEO focus mainly in getting the reliability of MRT robust without breakdown - which is the primary responsibility of the train operator, there is a need to look at other secondary income such as retail rental to supplement the earnings of train operator - so that there will be less stress on train operator to keep looking at fare increases to buffer the lower ridership.

Public transport after all - is meant for the public-at-large that make up of many :-

a. Lower income groups - that may not qualify to those assistance and vouchers offer by the lowest rung of the income group.

b. Retirees - with no income but predominantly depending on their savings and yet not qualify for government assistance.

c. School children - not earning income with no financial assistance.

d. Unemployed or caregivers - not earning income with no financial assistance.

e. A breadwinner will have to provide for these groups of people under his/her care - and everything adds up amidst the current high inflation.

7. The increases in the public transport fare don't seems alot - only 11 cents more per trip - but when added up admist the current high inflation - it can be a burden to the above groups.

8. For academic computation, with 11 cents increase per trip - the fare hike per person according to my travel pattern is estimated to be $120 - $183 per year.

(And my total expenses increase from 8.9% to 9.6%).

9. Now, will need to scout for additional income sources to cover this additional expenses of 9.6% inflation (which amount to a few thousand dollars a year) - to ensure it will not deplete my retirement savings.

19/09/2023, 2:40 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Assuming a sole breadwinner need to finance the fare hike for his dependants who are not working but not qualified for financial assistance:-

1. Wife

2. Child

3. Parents x 2

4. In-law

It come up to additional $720 - $1,092 per year.

This will be added to the current inflation of other goods and services.

19/09/2023, 2:41 pm - +Rama: Wow!

19/09/2023, 2:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes small fare hike, but when snowball - big increase.

19/09/2023, 2:42 pm - +Frankie Wee: Seek help com.care

19/09/2023, 2:42 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But some breadwinner not qualify to seek help.

Only can keep sucking thumbs until it bleeds.

19/09/2023, 2:44 pm - +Smiley face: Previously, govt subsidy amounted to $200m.

This coming govt subsidy shall amount to $300m.

YOY is going to be $500m.

19/09/2023, 2:45 pm - +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/0XsLpoqymPg?si=JE_hnXJf9L-geXk5

Previously...

19/09/2023, 2:45 pm - +Rama: All these comes from tax, gst etc.

19/09/2023, 2:59 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

19/09/2023, 3:00 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

19/09/2023, 3:05 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://mustsharenews.com/commonwealth-koufu-cai-png

Customer Charged S$10.10 For Cai Png At Koufu Commonwealth Branch, Feels ‘Scammed’.

19/09/2023, 3:07 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

These nowadays are common sight.

Wonder will government mandate all fan cai stalls to erect a price for each dish - so that customers won't be scammed by fan cai stall owners. <This message was edited>

19/09/2023, 3:07 pm - +~L: Really need to address the bias that the breadwinner is always Male. Maybe use the word Spouse, rather than Wife, as the dependent?

19/09/2023, 3:08 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is quoting an example of a real family.

Not a diplomatic exercise.

19/09/2023, 3:10 pm - +~L: That's 100 trips per month per person, assuming 10c each trip. 7 people x 10c x 100 x 12. Certainly, a  single earner supporting 7 dependents is tight. How would they not qualify for support?

19/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +Rama: Means testing is the culprit!

19/09/2023, 3:11 pm - +~L: Ok, but the wording gave no indication it was based on a real family. You wrote 'assuming'

19/09/2023, 3:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Asian people are less precise.

They don't want to reveal who they are.

19/09/2023, 3:13 pm - +~L: I have no idea why that is relevant.

19/09/2023, 3:14 pm - +~L: And if you want to be anonymous, why not write Spouse which is even more anonymous.

19/09/2023, 3:14 pm - +Frankie Wee: China unable to repay debt over the loss $900B hmmm but China can build more station and train 🚆 HSR and even wanted to sell Asia HSR each net worth billion dollars

19/09/2023, 3:14 pm - +Rama: Tongue in cheek!

19/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: China also asked Malaysia to discuss tender negotiations price

19/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +~L: It's important we all root out gender bais in our communication, for a fairer more balanced society for everyone.

19/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Frankie Wee: Malaysia has debt unaffordable

19/09/2023, 3:15 pm - +Rama: $900B!?

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Debt $900B

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Rama: No reserves like us to fall back on!?

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: China is big failed but risk to take more

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Astounding close to one trillion!

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes

19/09/2023, 3:16 pm - +Rama: Typically their style

19/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Smiley face: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/will-oil-hit-100-it-already-did-some-markets-2023-09-18/

19/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Rama: Yes

19/09/2023, 3:17 pm - +Frankie Wee: Wonder if it’s over dollars debt unable to solve then land sovereignty issue to bankrupt this county’s economy

19/09/2023, 3:18 pm - +Rama: 🤷‍♂️

19/09/2023, 3:22 pm - +Smiley face: Off balance sheets.

19/09/2023, 3:24 pm - +Smiley face: "too big to fail; too small to fall!"

19/09/2023, 3:24 pm - +Rama: Nice

19/09/2023, 3:31 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Government should look at the overall cost incur per household.

Then it will be a more accurate reflection of whether a household can manage the expenses and inflation Vis a Vis the price hikes on the various goods and services or not.

This is an extrapolation of yesterday cost of living study + today's public transport fare hike.

19/09/2023, 3:32 pm - +Frankie Wee: Wait for 2024 budget what we receive voucher GST offset

19/09/2023, 3:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

A study reveals that the inflation rate experience by Singaporeans are about 5%.

But my spreadsheet tell me that the inflation rate I face is now stand at 9.6%.

19/09/2023, 3:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments: Someone recently asked if it's mandatory to display food prices too.

My comments : I think should.

My place here fan cai price varies very widely.

Even order the same dishes one week later can come out to different prices.

It is based on the mood of stall owners what price to charge.

19/09/2023, 3:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/updated-comirnaty-vaccine-against-covid-19-expected-in-s-pore-by-end-oct-janil-puthucheary

19/09/2023, 3:55 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🤦

19/09/2023, 3:57 pm - +~L: I'm totally ok with an annual updated covid vaccine all the while it's needed.

19/09/2023, 3:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: Unnecessary compulsory if not take

19/09/2023, 3:59 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

19/09/2023, 4:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Interestingly, the inflation rate of 9.6% I experience hit the real Basic Needs - affecting the wide spectrum of  low income, middle income and upper income.

The items don't include luxurious vanity items like jewellery, perfume, overseas tours, cars or birkin, Hermes, Chanel bags.

19/09/2023, 4:22 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

_Categorisation of Monthly Expenses :-_

*A. Basic Needs*

1. Weekly supermarket groceries - big inflation 

2. Weekend food - big inflation 

3. Monthly Allowances to wife, parents, parent-in-law, (son when studying). - inflation 

4. Medical expenses - inflation 

5. Barber - no inflation 

6. Mobile phone expenses - no inflation 

7. Broadband and fixed phone expenses - no inflation 

8. Electricity and water bill - big inflation 

9. Town council, or conservancy charges or MSCT expenses - inflation 

10. Property tax - inflation 

11. Transport charges - MRT, Bus, Taxi, Private Hire - inflation 

12. House minor repair or maintenance - inflation 

13. Electrical appliances faulty replacement or repair. - inflation 

14. Insurance premium, Medishield premium - inflation 

15. CNY angpows - no inflation 

16. Charity contribution - no inflation 

17. Education, school fees and expenses (for those with children still studying) - inflation 

18. Monthly housing loans, or Uni loans (if the loans and interest are not fully paid) - inflation

19/09/2023, 4:23 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Total 9.6% inflation.

19/09/2023, 4:31 pm - +Rama: Price validity period must be displayed for better clarity.

19/09/2023, 4:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Now most complain come from cai fang stalls - whether Chinese, Malays or Indian stalls.

Suka suka can anyhow charge.

This practice appears everywhere.

19/09/2023, 4:33 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

News article report such practices quite widespread.

19/09/2023, 4:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

"Why are economical rice prices erratic? Redditors share 'horror stories', call for more transparency"

 https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/economical-rice-prices-2209991#:~:text=Why%20are%20economical%20rice%20prices%20erratic%3F%20Redditors%20share%20%27horror%20stories%27%2C%20call%20for%20more%20transparency

19/09/2023, 4:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/fish-cake-considered-meat-910-economy-rice-food-court-stuns-diner-food-republic-parkway-parade

Fish cake considered meat? $9.10 'cai fan' at food court stuns diner.

19/09/2023, 4:34 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://stomp.straitstimes.com/singapore-seen/diner-pays-620-for-cai-png-in-eunos-coffee-shop-says-it-almost-feels-like-sitting-in

Diner pays $6.20 for cai png in Eunos coffee shop, says it 'almost feels like sitting in restaurant'.

19/09/2023, 4:35 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/15-cai-fan-miscalculation-koufu-says-after-diner-asked-why-vegetables-cost-more-meat-velocity-novena-square

$15 'cai fan' a miscalculation, Koufu says after diner asked why vegetables cost more than meat.

19/09/2023, 4:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CBMif2h0dHBzOi8vc3RvbXAuc3RyYWl0c3RpbWVzLmNvbS9zaW5nYXBvcmUtc2Vlbi9tYW4tYXBwYWxsZWQtYnktMTUtY2FpLXBuZy1mcm9tLW5vdmVuYS1mb29kLWNvdXJ0LXNheXMtaGUtd2FzLXNjb2xkZWQtZm9yLXdhbnRpbmfSAYMBaHR0cHM6Ly9zdG9tcC5zdHJhaXRzdGltZXMuY29tL3NpbmdhcG9yZS1zZWVuL21hbi1hcHBhbGxlZC1ieS0xNS1jYWktcG5nLWZyb20tbm92ZW5hLWZvb2QtY291cnQtc2F5cy1oZS13YXMtc2NvbGRlZC1mb3Itd2FudGluZz9hbXA?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

Man appalled by $15 cai png from Novena food court, says he was 'scolded' for wanting receipt.

19/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Rama: Fair trade competition price watchdog monitoring!

19/09/2023, 4:39 pm - +Rama: Cut throat rip off!

19/09/2023, 4:45 pm - +Frankie Wee: Most mall is air con expensive 

Same like republic foods at Vivo city

19/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: Landlord want more money rental 

Owner hardly to make profit from sell.

19/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Frankie Wee: Also maintenance fees need to pay

19/09/2023, 4:47 pm - +Rama: This mentality of squeezing customers to offset their costs will drive their business to closure!

19/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Rama: Must be reasonable

19/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Frankie Wee: HDB heartland coffeeshop cheaper

19/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Rama: Landlord will kill themselves in the end!

19/09/2023, 4:48 pm - +Rama: Rental yes but food! ?

19/09/2023, 4:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: I was used to setup at CQ start rental $2400 monthly after 4 years up $3700

19/09/2023, 4:49 pm - +Frankie Wee: So close down 🤦

19/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +Rama: Blood suckers!

19/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Foods is stable price make customer easy affordable but end profit can’t make it

19/09/2023, 4:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Loss $15k for 4 years

19/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Rama: OMG!

19/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Frankie Wee: Sorry not foods 

For drink

19/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Rama: Ok

19/09/2023, 4:51 pm - +Frankie Wee: If food stall will cost $4k to $5k

19/09/2023, 4:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: Then won’t recontract lease so all item order to removed

19/09/2023, 4:53 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sure or not.

Now no $5, 6, 7 - can eat nothing.

19/09/2023, 4:53 pm - +Frankie Wee: Since 2018

19/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Haha true. Depends on the server and how you dressed at what time you buy 🤔

19/09/2023, 4:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: Renovations $4k to pay item and deposit landlord

19/09/2023, 4:55 pm - +Frankie Wee: Thats wonder why customer has right complaint overpriced foods stall

19/09/2023, 4:55 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah fish is $3 to $5 dlrs. Maybe we should concentrate on the suppliers

19/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: I think because of inflation

19/09/2023, 4:56 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Used to be big promfet $5 now it's half the size

19/09/2023, 4:58 pm - +Frankie Wee: Stall owner said 

U pay it or refused pay report police

19/09/2023, 4:58 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Yeah. It's a legal transaction.

19/09/2023, 4:59 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Next time don't patronize it and prices will adjust

19/09/2023, 4:59 pm - +Jimmy Chew: Supply and demand

19/09/2023, 5:00 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I am surprised such practices can appear in Singapore.

I thought LKY put a stop to such practices many decades ago by mandating all food and good prices must be fixed and displayed.

Now these 2 to 3 years, such unethical practice come out again.

I only see such practices happen in developing countries and people haggle over the prices.

But now such ugly practice come out in Singapore - and no one doing anything about it.

19/09/2023, 5:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Need proof auditor to check margin profit take

19/09/2023, 5:01 pm - +Frankie Wee: Auditor said it’s up to owner to increase price and make sure must show menu

19/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Report police!?

19/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes if customers refuse to pay

19/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Yes

19/09/2023, 5:02 pm - +Rama: Check price before orders!

19/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Before asking how much each dish.

Customer didn’t ask

19/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Rama: GCT/LHL sleeping on the job!?

19/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Start all of suddenly and fussy

19/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Rama: Customer at fault

19/09/2023, 5:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes

19/09/2023, 5:32 pm - +Smiley face: September 19, 2023

"Every family has its own challenges? How about a country?"

"Policy is a course of action to solve a political problem. Policy formulation is a process in itself; it is conceived by public or private groups that develop strategies about political problems and executed by government officials who implement and act on policies as concrete plans ."

- - Harvard University

Is formulating policy the most difficult and complex job?

Will the right policy or the wrong policy be harshly criticized or will it receive a lot of public comment?

So what is consensus?

(Anonymity) is not here to praise the government or policies or insult or humiliate people. Give credit where credit is due! 

There is no perfection, but we should strive for better or excellence! (imperfect world)

Perhaps a balanced view?   

             - - in progress - -

19/09/2023, 5:56 pm - +Frankie Wee: <Media omitted>

19/09/2023, 6:00 pm - +REACH: *📢 Topic 📢*

19/09/2023, 6:42 pm - +Smiley face: Fuel pump prices continue northwards, 95-octane petrol breaches $3 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/fuel-pump-prices-continue-northwards-95-octane-petrol-breaches-3

19/09/2023, 6:45 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

19/09/2023, 6:58 pm - +Smiley face: 19 September, 2023

" Costs and Benefits of Public transport system"

"The economics of a Mass Public Transport system may not necessarily be highly profitable. The importance is to move people efficiently and the consequential benefits shall befall into many multiplier effects of a country's economic development! An uplifting of the standards of living for the population and convenience."

- - no name 

Concept?

Any system of a large scale has its challenges, costs and benefits. By the means of creating a systematic Infrastructure to cater to the benefits of three millions of commuters with economic development at the same momentum creating multiples of sustainable economics activities from commercial to personal living spaces. It is either you build and continue to expand through calibrated and incremental growth or overgrowing or you stopped growing these existential national Infrastructures. All of these expansions and extensions of any system cost money to build and to sustain.

It is for the benefits of our future, continuing the relevance, and elevating the standards of living with manageable costs in mind.

Affordable?

Yes, it is not expensive for a Mass public transportation system like ours. Do the research on other developed countries the fares, the quality, the frequency and connectivity.

For Students and Seniors, you can opt to purchase a monthly Pass that costs $32/mth. A student pass should be cheaper! (students, seniors, low income families and workers, disabled people)

Perhaps our policymakers will look into this noble idea of cheaper fares for our vulnerable people including our Seniors and students who only means of transportion is either MRT or Buses or both or walk and take a public transport.

The past: 

A true testament of our previous generations of leaders, their great foreights and today SG we are all proud of.

The future: 

The complete MRT system into 2030 should have 300km of tracks connecting the entire SG township. That's a game changer and redefining any matured or any non-matured estate into ONE SG.

Today and tomorrow: 

It doesn't matter if we fork out a little bit more! Why? More than three decades ago, people paid a higher price to build  our MRT  and they benefitted the convenience of moving around, from their homes to their  workplaces!  That's the meaning of ENABLE!

https://youtu.be/kXj1lKn0Wx4?si=QrphBy7lmHrNhGKN    

          - - in progress - -

19/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan  😊

19/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: And not to forget, a token of appreciation to President Ong, Min Mah, Min Khaw, the past Ministers and thousands of civil servants and workers by ensuring continuity and enduring the public scrutiny - Our Choo-Choo trains, Our MRT!

19/09/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group

====

REACH 494 - What are your views on the report? Is there sufficient support in place for those who need it? Should a differentiation be made between basic needs and what individuals would like to have? 

(SK)

18 Sep 2023 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

18/09/2023, 9:35 am - +REACH: *Greetings from REACH* 

A warm welcome to those who have just been added to this chat group.

You have been added as you had previously indicated your interest at one of our events or through our online platforms. 

*Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group.*

*Full set of Terms of Use:* https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

Megan 😊

18/09/2023, 9:51 am - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from *10am to 7pm* today. ⏰

*House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind:* 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

*Full set of Terms of Use:* https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

18/09/2023, 10:00 am - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

Last Thursday, Nanyang Technological University (NTU) and the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy (LKYSPP) published a report that said that a family of four, consisting of parents, a pre-teen and a teenager, needs at least $6,693 a month to afford a basic standard of living.

In a joint statement, the Finance Ministry (MOF), Manpower Ministry (MOM) and Ministry of Social and Family Development (MSF) said that the report “may not be an accurate reflection of basic needs”, and its findings should be interpreted instead as “what individuals would like to have”. They also underlined the Government’s approach – that it is committed to supporting Singaporeans throughout their lives, especially those in need.

💬 *What are your views on the report? Is there sufficient support in place for those who need it? Should a differentiation be made between basic needs and what individuals would like to have?* 

The Minimum Income Standards (MIS) Report 2023 recommended three reforms related to income: 

📌 *1. Introducing a universal wage floor*

In response, MOF, MOM and MSF said they supported the intent of ensuring that lower-wage workers have jobs that pay them decently. 

But “a universal wage floor is not necessarily the best way to achieve this”, they said. “Set too low, the wage floor will benefit fewer workers than the Progressive Wage Model (PWM). Set too high, workers who are less-skilled risk losing their jobs, especially if their jobs can be automated.”

📌 *2. Tweaking the Central Provident Fund (CPF) model to “protect poorer people in old age”*

The ministries noted that support for these groups is being strengthened, such as through the recently announced Majulah Package for those aged 50 and above, and upcoming enhancements to measures such as the Silver Support Scheme and Workfare Income Supplement.

“We recognise that there are groups who are unable to benefit fully from the system, including those unable to work and/or accumulate sufficient CPF savings,” they noted, citing lower-income workers and caregivers as examples.

📌 *3. Pegging assistance amounts to current prices to keep up with “actual” needs*

The report said that a number of schemes, such as subsidies for infant care, childcare and student care, as well as the Silver Support Scheme, were not updated between 2020 and 2022 despite high inflation.

The ministries said the scope, coverage and payout amounts of government schemes are regularly reviewed to ensure those schemes remain relevant and adequate. For instance, the ComCare payout amount was raised in 2022, while its per capita household income benchmark was raised in July 2023.

The ministries also said they welcome studies that provide additional insights into public discussion on social policies.

However, commenting on the methodology of the report, MOF, MOM and MSF said the authors used “certain simplifying assumptions” to derive their findings. For example, some expenses taken into account when calculating MIS included discretionary expenses such as jewellery, perfumes and overseas holidays.

They added that the report also assumes that lower-income families would receive the same level of financial help as median households. “However, lower-income families qualify for and receive more financial help,” the ministries pointed out. “As such, there is a risk of overstating the minimum income and understating the amount of government support received by lower-income families.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/report-on-adequate-minimum-incomes-in-singapore-draws-response-from-3-ministries

👉https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/minimum-income-standard-household-budget-lkyspp-rising-costs-mof-mom-msf-3770966

18/09/2023, 10:00 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group

18/09/2023, 10:03 am - ~ REACH Singapore changed the group description

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18/09/2023, 11:03 am - +~L: Is there a breakdown of how the monthly sum is calculated? Hard to determine if it seems like it satisfies wants or needs otherwise.

18/09/2023, 11:04 am - +~L: Generally, we can't advocate for One Singapore if 30% of the population don't have adequate financial support.

18/09/2023, 11:05 am - +~L: I agree with this being a basic standard of living:"“It is about having opportunities to education, employment and work-life balance, as well as access to healthcare. It enables a sense of belonging, respect, security, and independence. It also includes choices to participate in social activities, and the freedom to engage in one’s cultural and religious practices,”

18/09/2023, 11:06 am - +~L: Was the government saying they don't agree? Did the government propose what they considered to be a basic standard of living?

18/09/2023, 11:07 am - +~L: Hard to feel part of a society when there is so much wealth here, but 30% of the population cannot access it.

18/09/2023, 11:08 am - +~L: The ministers are well paid to solve these problems.

18/09/2023, 11:09 am - +~L: If they deny there is a problem is that just an excuse not to sort it out, or do they not accept the problem?

18/09/2023, 11:12 am - +Rama: The means testing for this must be made known for the electorate to fully understand how the report was derived at. At the same time, details of the report must be made open to the general public.

18/09/2023, 11:12 am - +~L: Yes

18/09/2023, 11:13 am - +Kenneth Lee WM: Indeed it is kind of vague how the $6K is computed and there are few details the gov agencies disagree on. However, we can tell that the current batch of young senior Singaporeans are generally in bad shape. 3 out of 5 can't meet minimum CPF retirement sum; that value is determined by CPF to be the very very basic living costs.

Gov should also be looking at how to bring down the cost of basic food.  Like eggs for instance.  Basic protein source for the masses.  It is now $8 for 30 where it used to be $3-4 just one year ago.  Where is Chan Chun Seng when we need him to come and flood the market with eggs and bring down the prices.  He used to be criticized when he brought in too much eggs, but that was a good thing as it increased supply to the point that it kept prices in check.  Then where is CASE who is suppose to  oversee profiteering!!!

18/09/2023, 11:13 am - +Rama: Here here!

18/09/2023, 11:29 am - +Smiley face: Especially in cases where Seniors are above 65 yrs or older age and not working full time, relying on their monthly drawn down CPF of $300-$1000. 

These Seniors are the vulnerable people to prioritize and take care first.

3/5 young seniors not having sufficient money in their CPF is an issue that will escalate later on into their aging years.

How to help? 

By continuing to work either full time or adhoc or part time just to supplement the costs of living?

How will MOM/MSF/MOF identify areas of job opportunities and at the same time  recalibrate the wages through workfare just to balance the take home pay of these aging citizens.

18/09/2023, 11:38 am - +Frankie Wee: CPF keep on rising FRS $198k to $2xxk late yearly 

At age 55 group unable to met mins BRS and FRS. They continue to work on.

18/09/2023, 11:45 am - +Frankie Wee: Remember me in 1990s those teenage working part time or full time  at McDonald’s 1hr per $2.80 to $3.50 late 10 to 20 years saving on CPF not enough when cost of living higher.

18/09/2023, 11:53 am - +Frankie Wee: 1990s maybe govt sleep 😴 all of trouble teenage 😅

18/09/2023, 11:54 am - +Poh S Lim: I agree on this. 

1) Is the hard data collected by the think tanks available to the public with breakdowns? 

2) How is the criteria on ‘basic needs’ determined? 

3) Is the model of a family consisting of parents and 2 children in the age group stated a good representative of the current population? 

4) Does the figure given represent the mean, median or lower boundary of the basic need? The specific figure of $6693 is quite specific, since the term ‘at least’ is used. Can this figure then be used to benchmark the poverty line for public policy for public assistance?

18/09/2023, 11:56 am - +Frankie Wee: In future 3room will cost $500k bto

18/09/2023, 11:58 am - +Frankie Wee: Whole world country is changed economy and social system affected Singapore too. 

We want to change then Better voice out what we need for living today.

18/09/2023, 12:00 pm - +Ken: Depends on area… resales new BTO already 600k…

My friend brought 300k… after mop 😅

But then again supplier demand

18/09/2023, 12:00 pm - +Ken: Still cheap than condo of the same size <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 12:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Yes agreed

18/09/2023, 12:00 pm - +Frankie Wee: Condominium will cost equal price to HDB

18/09/2023, 12:03 pm - +~L: How many over 60's are looking forward to their golden years working in McDonald's?

18/09/2023, 12:04 pm - +Ken: Cost of living is tough… unless your kid earn a lot more than you 😅

18/09/2023, 12:04 pm - +KL: already thinking to do part time and enrol into macdonald university . got free food

18/09/2023, 12:05 pm - +~L: Hope you have very good health care provisions. McDonald's is nutritional very poor.

18/09/2023, 12:05 pm - +KL: just saw a old lady ( staff ) trying to buy meal and overheard the another staff helping her. say she cant approve only manger can

18/09/2023, 12:05 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️😞

18/09/2023, 12:05 pm - +KL: Not sure heard wrongly but I think they using a card to buy meal on machine not like last time can eat behind .

18/09/2023, 12:06 pm - +Rama: 😳

18/09/2023, 12:06 pm - +Rama: Hopefully not many!

18/09/2023, 12:06 pm - +KL: Saw the helping each other spirt in macdonald delight me

18/09/2023, 12:06 pm - +~L: I really hope we can give people more to aspire to than McDonald's and Fair Price. I'm not criticising those companies or if people are choosing to work there. I just would be sad if people are forced into those jobs due to lack of funds. Also, there are not unlimited jobs there either, and where do the students go for part time work?

18/09/2023, 12:06 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +KL: maybe ask where all the job gone to ?

18/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +~L: Gov would do well to train people into Global WFH jobs that brings income into Singapore and gives people flexible working.

18/09/2023, 12:07 pm - +Rama: Yes

18/09/2023, 12:08 pm - +KL: i saw a lot of Malaysian WFH  in malasia instead <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 12:08 pm - +~L: The way to solve financial problems is to increase income. We need to tap into the global online economy, but it's true there we are competing with other countries that have more people and lower cost of living.

18/09/2023, 12:09 pm - +KL: income outflow to another country if not local

18/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +~L: Since we cannot cut expenditure we have to distribute wealth a little better. More money in lower income pockets actually increase economic growth if the money is spent locally, not overseas.

18/09/2023, 12:10 pm - +Rama: Mean minimum wage as mentioned by PM a few National Day Rally ago was sgd1.4K! Need major uplift!

18/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +KL: When , how many years ago ? <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 12:11 pm - +Rama: By the time LW becomes PM!

18/09/2023, 12:12 pm - +Rama: Maybe two or three at the most!

18/09/2023, 12:24 pm - +Dan: There is a shift of mindset on basic needs. The official stand of basic needs using Maslow's hierarchy of needs is quite outdated. A normal Singaporean living on these basic wage to ensure survival is impractical as there are no social costs attached to it. Unless the person lives a hermit life,an otaku who coops in his home, not caring for his image or other wellbeing.

18/09/2023, 12:25 pm - +Rama: Government is way backdated in policy on this!?

18/09/2023, 12:26 pm - +Frankie Wee: One thing I need know why there in CPF accured interest rate keep it forever untouchable nor use for retire set transfer RA when they can’t meet min FRS or BRS

18/09/2023, 12:26 pm - +Rama: My sentiments exactly!

18/09/2023, 12:44 pm - +Unknown: Then it should be placed at appropriate places that are not as accessible to the young

18/09/2023, 12:46 pm - +Rama: Restricted acess!?

18/09/2023, 1:09 pm - +Sh Koh: Hmm..  we hear this argument many times from govt. And govt way is to increase productivity or upgrade. It is a never ending treadmill.

18/09/2023, 1:13 pm - +Sh Koh: Perhaps it's time to look alternative means like a minimum retirement sum commitment from govt When u hit a mark. Funded by 'wealth' taxes.

18/09/2023, 1:14 pm - +Rama: Yes

18/09/2023, 1:18 pm - +Smiley face: Good starting point.... Maslow Hierarchy of Needs!

18/09/2023, 1:19 pm - +Smiley face: 18 September, 2023

"Big Data and Analytics and the Ratings of Poverty"

(大数据和分析以及贫困评级)

How to encourage workers age 55 yrs onwards to work either full time or part time?

"MSF/MOM/MOF will have better insights to each individual and households to directly and in micro methods equalise helps and packages from tax breaks, employabilities,  educations, GST vouchers, Cash to medical subsidies. Data minings and generative AI to achieve the goals of increasing equality" 

- - anonymity 

CPF contributions:

For age 55 and onwards, those earnings $5k and below will have additional CPF contributions tri-share from Government, Unions & Employers.

$1500 to $3000  @ additional 4% (2%)*

$3001 to $3999    @ additional 3% (1.5%)*

$4001 to $5000   @ additional 2% (1%)*

*For part timers.

Income Tax:

Preferential tax given to young seniors age 55 onwards especially for those earning below $40,000 annually. No means test.

Ratings Poverty:

Taking from the perspective of the TFR. The ratio of minimal standard of livings and dependancy ratio shall be assumed at 1 : 2. 

What is the pre-determined costs of supporting this 1 : 2 ratio of livings? What are the items included in this calculated sum of expenses? Are each of these items good estimates of the latest costings?

One full-time working adult with Two dependents. The monthly incomes and expenditures.

These dependents classified as either young children or teenagers or young seniors or physical/mental/medical disabled or elderly parent.

MOH:

With the latest Healthier SG program, if we achieved 90% membership. It will be beneficial for MOH to provide accurate medical data on issues, challenges and expenditures per individual, per household monthly and per year basis.

All these medical data shall form part of the means analytics of households together with the CPF contributions and monthly income and the ratio of dependancy.

                - - in progress - -

18/09/2023, 1:42 pm - +Smiley face: "A Pro Work Choice Nation"

"Singapore is a society that is Pro work choice; over the five decades of our nation's growth, many experts view our systems of social welfare are often debatable and more often in recent years distorted to the extent that some members of the public and the opposition are demanding more help and in search of the poverty line, this case is SG."

- - anonymity 

How can the Policymakers contribute and lead the private sectors and its citizens to reintroduce new measures to top up all gaps not just incomes or money but the means to many ends in particular the bottom 25% of our households and in accuracy, our citizens.

There are several methods and the collection of data, these data points are more than the usual Census.

Only with these data points, each social or economic policy will yield more traction with the predicative and confidence level at 95%-99% at any given time frame or just in time to assist individuals and/or many households at one simultaneous effort, all synchronizes with the end goals of equalizing along the lifetime of all citizens whether one is able today to earn a good living or tomorrow unable to earn and sustain his or her family members.

All of the above can be addressed through the use of data analyses, multi-ministries, executing at the micro-segmentation method and finally implement many meaningful and life changing initiatives.

         - - in progress - -

18/09/2023, 1:46 pm - +Rama: GE25 is around the corner! Improvement works in some of the older mature estates are either ongoing, started or being planned.  All in the hope of increase majority votes in Parliament! Electorate is very mindful of the ruling party's government shortcomings over the years.  Best be upfront,  do away with ownself check ownself and answer the people truthfully without any hidden agenda!

18/09/2023, 1:51 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 1:57 pm - +Smiley face: The so-called hidden truth or hidden agenda needs more elaborate explanation and communication to reduce all distortions and unnecessary debates and unhappy sentiments.

The key towards a Trusting society whereby the common existential needs and challenges must be addressed face to face in order for the public to start to understand the constraints, the trade-offs and the unintended consequences of this vs that policy and so on.

A clear and non opaque message is achievable through continued engagement with our citizens, hopefully these meetings will cover up to 1/3 of our population;  'The more the merrier '...

18/09/2023, 1:57 pm - Your security code with +65 8584 5280 changed. Tap to learn more.

18/09/2023, 1:59 pm - +Smiley face: The key idea is a Pro Work Choice mindset whereby you work as long as you can and you don't have to worry over your 'roof ' !

18/09/2023, 2:00 pm - +Smiley face: Keep it Simple and Compassionate, we are living in a highly uncertain time and the worst (can be) is yet to come!

18/09/2023, 2:04 pm - +Rama: Another current issue is in Parliament right now.  PM suspends Minister For Transport from MP duties and yet he is drawing sgd192K in allowances on top of sgd8k salary from a civil service guideline! PSP HP is raising a private member bill to query on this! Then IJ comes in with a supplementary intervention to explain! Electorate is 😳🤷‍♂️

18/09/2023, 2:06 pm - +Smiley face: Can anyone, please provide the explanations, there must be a logical reason ?

18/09/2023, 2:08 pm - +Rama: Beat around the Bush explanation is expected!

18/09/2023, 2:10 pm - +Ken: Suspension not equal to conviction right? 

If convicted any way of crawl back in Singapore government terms?

18/09/2023, 2:12 pm - +Rama: Suspension wages can be reimbursed!

18/09/2023, 2:20 pm - +Frankie Wee: Tengah is cooling system not bad

https://www.mytengah.sg/centralised-cooling/

18/09/2023, 2:24 pm - +Frankie Wee: So far I have not heard any news from him. Wonder he is still under investigation by CIPB <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 2:25 pm - +Rama: Believe so as this issue is complicated and will take months

18/09/2023, 2:39 pm - +Smiley face: This message was deleted

18/09/2023, 2:39 pm - +Smiley face: First thing first, hot air rises and cool sinks. 

At the ground level that is covered with concrete or grass, trees and plants landscaping; hot air rises.

One, in commercial buildings whereby centralized air-conditioning system are commonly used. Perhaps, there are advantages and disadvantages to learn from it.

Two, assuming there are up to 10 compression/cooling systems for each 50 floors block of flats. One system down, only 5 floors are out of aircon services.

Three, the experiences from Covid 19 taught us the air quality and the potential contamination of virus via such a centralized pipeline of aircon.

18/09/2023, 2:42 pm - +Smiley face: Are the servicing of aircon, repairing or replacements costs part of the monthly conservancy fees or these centralized air-conditioning fees are separate costs?

18/09/2023, 2:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. First, I will like to comment on the report from the study made by NTU and LKY School of Public Policy on the basic standard of living of Singaporean family.

2. The first thing that come to my mind when I read jewellery, perfume and overseas tour are categorised as basic needs for a family - has triggered me to cast aspersion into the credibility of the study.

Seriously, does a family required jewellery, perfume and overseas tour to be its physiological basic needs - to sustain their lives, for without which, the family cannot survive?

3. To be honest, I don't buy jewellery, use perfum and go overseas tours for decades already - except my younger days when I earn my income worth.

4. Jewellery, perfume and overseas tours are luxurious vanity items.

5. If the 2 schools are serious in helping the Government to conduct studies to help Singaporeans and Government to formulate public policies, the schools must be extremely mindful how their studies will impact public policies, taxpayers' money and the overall impact on the sustainability of the Government fiscal budget.

6. Because such "exorbitant categorisation" will translate into high taxes that will need to levy on Singaporeans in the form of income tax, property tax, corporate tax, GST etc - to subsidise grants or financial assistance to lower income people - whereby even middle income will fall into the "poverty trap".

7. It will also deplete our reserves if fiscal tax are unable to finance unsubstantiated "high standard of living" causing a draw on our reserves - buffered by categorisation of luxurious items disguised as basic needs for a family to survive.

18/09/2023, 2:56 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Like any good financial controller or good accountant, to instill financial discipline and financial prudent, I will draw up and maintain a financial spreadsheet on my average monthly expense to control my expenses to ensure my monthly income can cover my monthly expenses for the whole family.

2. This form my basic needs to maintain a respectable standard of living.

3. I will categorise into :-

a. Basic needs

b. Luxurious vanity items

c. Savings.

4. My priority will be to ensure that I fully satisfy my a. Basic needs (bearing in mind that the current and last 2 years high inflation - has tilt my expenses by 8.9%).

5. When I have fully fulfilled my a. Basic needs, I will split my excess income equally into spending b. Luxurious vanity items and c. Savings (for retirement or rainy days).

6. Hence, I will ensure my allocation of my income versus spendings and savings - can meet the veracity of financial credibility, sustainability, prudence and discipline.

7. I feel that by going on this approach, the way I work out the basic needs of a family and meeting the standard cost of living - is more credible and can help the government to formulate a workable public policy to meet Singaporeans standard cost of living.

18/09/2023, 3:02 pm - +Smiley face: Fixed assets and Liquid assets and Debts Servicing Ratio.

18/09/2023, 3:05 pm - +Rama: Blady idiot who came up with No. 2!

18/09/2023, 3:06 pm - +Rama: No. 4 is right!

18/09/2023, 3:19 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

_Categorisation of Monthly Expenses :-_

*A. Basic Needs*

1. Weekly supermarket groceries

2. Weekend food

3. Monthly Allowances to wife, parents, parent-in-law, (son when studying).

4. Medical expenses

5. Barber

6. Mobile phone expenses

7. Broadband and fixed phone expenses

8. Electricity and water bill

9. Town council, or conservancy charges or MSCT expenses

10. Property tax

11. Transport charges - MRT, Bus, Taxi, Private Hire

12. House minor repair or maintenance

13. Electrical appliances faulty replacement or repair.

14. Insurance premium, Medishield premium

15. CNY angpows 

16. Charity contribution

17. Education, school fees and expenses (for those with children still studying)

18. Monthly housing loans, or University loans (if the loans and interest are not fully paid)

18/09/2023, 3:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

This will have covered almost all the basic needs - plus and minus.

18/09/2023, 3:29 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

*B. Luxurious Vanity Items* _(50% excess income minus spendings on Basic Needs)_

_Weekly Leisure Spending_

1. Window Shopping or shopping - leisure items

2. Eat out in food court, hawker centre, f&b, restaurant

3. Local tours to place of interest

4. Enrol in some leisure activities

Those who own cars will have :-

1. Monthly car loan

2. Petrol

3. Car insurance

4. Annual car tax

5. Parking charges

6. Car maintenace

7. ERP

Those who want yearly overseas tour :-

1. Tour group

2. Air tickets

3. Accomodation

4. Tour spending

Those who want to buy luxurious items :-

1. Jewelleries

2. Watches

3. Bags - birkin, hermes, blah blah....

4. Perfumes 

5. Cosmetics etc blah blah

====

*C. Savings* _(50% excess income minus spendings on Basic Needs)_

1. Put into Fixed Deposit

2. Singapore Saving Bonds

3. T-bill

4. Insurance Savings Plan or Endowment policy

5. CPF savings.

18/09/2023, 3:35 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 3:36 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Government formulating public policy to ensure all Singaporeans maintain a respectable Basic Standard of Livings - to ensure everyone meet their Basic needs --- should focus on all the essential items listed in a. Basic Needs.

2. b. Luxurious Vanity Items -- should not be included into the Basic Standard of Livings - for the purpose of formulating policies in meeting Singaporeans basic cost of living.

3. I have to however highlight that indeed, the recent 3 years inflation do take a toll on the Basic Cost of living - as I record it, tabulate it and compute it - as I spend and incur ---- and it come out to 8.9% increase in my total Basic Needs expenses.

4. Of course this is my personal family recorded expenses for reference.

Other families will have a slight variation - depending on the number of family members and their spending needs.

For eg. some may spend more on food, some may spend more on healthcare, some may spend more on education. some may spend more on transport etc.

18/09/2023, 3:36 pm - Your security code with +65 6336 7926 changed. Tap to learn more.

18/09/2023, 3:37 pm - +Sh Koh: There shld be slight change in mindset of basic need. Some amount of comfort such as eat out, leisure shld be considered. It's relative.. but I think is necessary in Singapore context.

18/09/2023, 3:38 pm - +Rama: Wage mentioned in survey needs to be lowered to about sgd5k

18/09/2023, 3:43 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: respectable Basic Standard of Livings -- should include some spare in case of emergencies such as hospitalisation. 

how about childcare costs, maids - for parental care, or day care for elderly parents.

18/09/2023, 3:44 pm - +Rama: Local tourism should be encouraged

18/09/2023, 3:45 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: agree - with houses being so small nowadays- where do families.. even in the lower income go for leisure.  otherwise we are encourage more mental stress...

18/09/2023, 3:47 pm - +Sh Koh: Either local or overseas.. so some leisure amt shld be considered..  although local leisure can be more expensive

18/09/2023, 3:50 pm - +Sh Koh: Yes.. so we shld consider some expense as part of basic need.

18/09/2023, 3:52 pm - +Rama: Definitely

18/09/2023, 3:53 pm - +Rama: Due to currency, Malaysia will be an ideal choice.

18/09/2023, 3:54 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Of course everyone will be more happy if we put more luxurious items into basic needs.

But the more we put, the higher tax we have to pay.

Are we willing to pay higher GST above 9%?

Or pay more income tax, property tax?

Or whatever tax?

18/09/2023, 3:55 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

To service lower income groups?

This money won't be use as financial assistance to middle income groups and above Woh.

18/09/2023, 4:00 pm - +REACH: 📢 *Topic* 📢

18/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Rama: Will we see gst at 12% after 2030!?

18/09/2023, 4:01 pm - +Sh Koh: This is a perceive / consensus basic need of singaporean.. it is a reasonable benchmark to start our planning.

18/09/2023, 4:03 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. And I have to stress again, Universal Wage Cost or Basic Minimum Wages --- are not the right approach to beef up the lower income group - because it is not base on sound economic principles.

2. Minimum salaries in each industries varies - and cannot set a universal or standard basic wages and apply it to all industries..

As rightly pointed out by the Government, when basic minimum wages are set too low, the lower income workers won't benefit.

If set too high, some industries can use automation to replace our workers or hire foreign workers.

3. Hence PWM (Progressive Wage Model) - that tie different basic wages according to each respective industries, with productivity growth ties to corresponding increase in wages to the workers - is the best model to uplift the wages of lower income workers.

This is base on sound economic principles of wages tie to productivity and wage cost vis-a-vis business profit and expenses.

18/09/2023, 4:08 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My friends ask, where can we find this NTU/lkyspp report?

We want to take a look and examine the report content.

Now we only based on news article to comment. <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 4:10 pm - +Rama: Me too @

18/09/2023, 4:16 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think the report only given to government.

Not published for public consumption.

18/09/2023, 4:17 pm - +Sunshine Pooh: then kinda of redundant wont you say? cos it is open to restricted interpretations by the different govt bodies. 

how do you quantify or validate the data if not open for public's review

18/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +KL: I think is online only 39 pages but not sure correct or not , but I think they only took in basic needs . <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 4:19 pm - +Rama: So, can be hogwash to some extent!?

18/09/2023, 4:20 pm - +Rama: Send it over anyway

18/09/2023, 4:20 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://lkyspp.nus.edu.sg/news-events/events/details/minimum-income-standard-2023-household-budgets-in-a-time-of-rising-costs

I think should be this one.

18/09/2023, 4:20 pm - +KL: Better not let reach gov publish

18/09/2023, 4:21 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But cannot see the report.

18/09/2023, 4:21 pm - +Rama: 🙏

18/09/2023, 4:21 pm - +Rama: 😳🤦‍♂️

18/09/2023, 4:28 pm - +Sh Koh: So is there a publish govt basic needs items ?

18/09/2023, 4:36 pm - +Sh Koh: Think importantly is what the way basic is define. Seems like govt basic needs is only abt housing, food and clothing, but… forgetting  what singaporean  individuals would like to have

18/09/2023, 4:40 pm - +Rama: 👌

18/09/2023, 5:04 pm - +REACH: *Bus, train fares to rise by up to 11 cents for adults; new $96 concession pass for low-wage workers*

More: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/bus-train-fares-to-rise-by-up-to-11-cents-for-adults-new-96-concession-pass-for-low-wage-workers

18/09/2023, 5:05 pm - +Rama: Blood sucking!😡😖

18/09/2023, 5:07 pm - +~L: Is this the Official Gov List we are measuring by?

18/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: Fuel ⛽️ oil risings

18/09/2023, 5:08 pm - +~L: True, but let's face it.... Singapore is very small, and not very varied. It's not going to help kids learn about the world or widen their experiences if they can never go overseas.

18/09/2023, 5:09 pm - +Frankie Wee: Next turn electric tariff will increase price

18/09/2023, 5:11 pm - +~L: In 2020 3 banks made $8bn profit from Singapore. Maybe they can pay a tiny bit more tax?, or pay their CEOs and Execs a tiny bit less salary?

DBS Bank: DBS is one of Singapore's largest banks. In 2020, DBS reported a net profit of SGD 4.72 billion for the full year.

United Overseas Bank (UOB): UOB is another significant player in the Singaporean banking industry. In 2020, UOB reported a net profit of SGD 1.03 billion for the full year.

OCBC Bank: Oversea-Chinese Banking Corporation (OCBC) is another major bank in Singapore. In 2020, OCBC reported a net profit of SGD 2.31 billion for the full year.

18/09/2023, 5:11 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

One person's definition of basic can be another person's luxury.

When my mom was still around, she was happy with a household brand coffee bag which cost <20¢ per cup.

To others, Starbucks coffee is basic. 

When my dad and mom were successful in being allotted a 2-room rental flat (only 1 small bedroom) and moved all of us into the tiny home, my parents were happy because we were previously cramped up in a poorly-lit, bug- infested rented room. 

I was too young to remember, but my mom described the rented room had walls with streaks of black lines (formed by bed bugs). 

The bugs also crowded around light switches and power sockets.

Today, I have heard more than once, from different people/sources that 2-room flats "不是人住的".

I major in computer science during my undergrad days and never owned a computer because that would cost my dad half a year of his pay. 

I hung out very late into the night or very early in the morning to chope computer resources.

My classmates never knew why I was so "weird".

Today, an undergrad walks around with a notebook, ipad and iphone which can easily cost $4000.

My financial ruler-of-measure is based on if we were out-of-work, what would living be like? 

That gives clarity on what constitutes as basic, we fund development eg enrichment programmes for ourselves and children so that we stay relevant, set aside savings for future and emergencies and whatever is left can go to charities and consumption.

Consumption is defined as nice-to-have, "don't have won't die". 

We are clear that we are not trying to keep up with the Joneses.

But recently, the "basic" component has risen become substantially.

Even that, I consider $6,693 is quite high for "basic" definiton.

18/09/2023, 5:12 pm - +KL: Frankly . In my humble opinion the easiest way to test is by MacDonald meal.

Use 2020 cost of SG living =  cost of a fish burger meal in SG MacDonald 

Cost of living is 4131 in 2020 and a meal not upsize is 5 dollar 

Use today MacDonald fish burger meal * % difference = Today cost of living for 4 pax.

Ard 7.10 

I think est ard  6K :) +\- estimated of 10% confidence intervals. As long fell in 5.3 K to 6.6 K is there this inflation mainly only took in food and energy inflation not consider housing inflation .

18/09/2023, 5:13 pm - +~L: "because it is not base on sound economic principles." - opinion or fact?

Why not have a floor for every job, and then progressive wage model based on roles and industries? At least then we know that No One Is Left Behind. No Family is in Poverty.

18/09/2023, 5:14 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

The whole message is very clear.

Current Singaporeans still have very high expectations.

Never seen our early struggle.

18/09/2023, 5:15 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 5:16 pm - +~L: Expectations are indeed high. We are surrounded by vast amounts of Wealth. It seems in many countries that new generations are work shy high consumers.... not sure where this will lead!

18/09/2023, 5:16 pm - +Rama: Bankruptcy!

18/09/2023, 5:17 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Current LKY documentary revive our early struggle.

Young generations didn't see how their parents and grandparents struggle in their early lives.

18/09/2023, 5:17 pm - +Rama: Would not make a difference if they did see!

18/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +~L: In 1980, Singapore's GDP was approximately $16.3 billion USD.

In 2021, Singapore's GDP was approximately $337.5 billion USD.

18/09/2023, 5:18 pm - +Rama: 😳👌👍

18/09/2023, 5:18 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments: Actually, might be a good thing. Because I always ask what's the bottom line?

My comments : Yes we must manage people expectations.

Else become a bottomless pit.

18/09/2023, 5:19 pm - +~L: So it's not surprising people have higher expectations and don't feel they need to live the same lives as their ancestors. Didn't the ancestors work hard to build a good life for the next generation? Yes - but that shouldn't mean the next generation don't also work hard to do the same.

18/09/2023, 5:19 pm - +Rama: Our reserves is not so must be practical in USA!

18/09/2023, 5:20 pm - +Rama: Nonsense!

18/09/2023, 5:20 pm - +~L: Which bit?

18/09/2023, 5:21 pm - +~L: Singapore gdp per capita for 2022 was $82,808, a 6.56% increase from 2021.

Singapore gdp per capita for 2021 was $77,710, a 26.82% increase from 2020.

Singapore gdp per capita for 2020 was $61,274, a 7.26% decline from 2019.

Singapore gdp per capita for 2019 was $66,070, a 1.15% decline from 2018.

18/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +~L: Covid impacted 2020 2021 of course, but seeing general growth. Why are people getting left behind?

18/09/2023, 5:22 pm - +Sh Koh: We see and recognise past struggle. But looking forward.. we shld define new basic right. We didn't use old benchmark for our airport, finance, safety security didn't we

18/09/2023, 5:23 pm - +Rama: You need to think about the next generation when spending reserves!

18/09/2023, 5:25 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh I don't drink Starbucks or gourmet coffee.

I still drink the 20 cents 3-in-one coffee.

18/09/2023, 5:28 pm - +Sh Koh: Great... but not everyone need and can be like you.

18/09/2023, 5:30 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence important for government to define what is basic needs.

What is luxurious items.

18/09/2023, 5:30 pm - +Sh Koh: I vaguely remember then PM GCT mention something abt bar soap to shampoo, shower cream.. so some can live frugally like the past.. but some also 'upgrade'

18/09/2023, 5:31 pm - +Sh Koh: Why must govt the one defining. ?

18/09/2023, 5:31 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I use soap bar, the 50 cents type not the shower cream.

Hence important for government to define what is basic needs and what is luxurious items. <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 5:31 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: i think the gov should release the report and let the populace decide if the report is valid or not.  Just because the 3 ministries don't agree with the report, they throw it out and said it is not valid.  

We are not an "Animal farm" society.  We can read and understand things ourselves.  

My gut feel, I think the report is about right.  For retirees, $1.5K a person for just food/transport/utilities is more than enough.  For families with 2 young/teenage children, a *housing mortgage*, playschool, tuition, etc, $6K is going to be barely enough.  Anything less, something needs to be prioritized out.

One criticism of the report was that there were perfume purchases; one bottle of perfume can last for months/years and I doubt families purchase a new bottle every month!  Then again, there are $20 perfumes and $200 perfumes and I'm sure the person with limited income knows which kind of perfume they can afford.

18/09/2023, 5:32 pm - +Rama: Likewise

18/09/2023, 5:32 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because the government is managing public funds, taxpayers money.

18/09/2023, 5:32 pm - +Rama: Penny wise pound foolish!

18/09/2023, 5:32 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 5:33 pm - +Rama: Great

18/09/2023, 5:34 pm - +Sh Koh: Not using Starbucks as a basic benchmark but an occasion pleasure/leisure instead. We shld have element of that as part basic need computation.

18/09/2023, 5:35 pm - +~L: If no one 'needs' a holiday, a restaurant meal, nice clothes,  Starbucks, then why do some people (including Gov) get paid so much just to fritter it away on these pointless luxuries?

18/09/2023, 5:36 pm - +Liang Wei: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 5:36 pm - +Rama: Exactly!?

18/09/2023, 5:36 pm - +Kenneth Lee WM: Government can control the price of basic necessities by controlling supply.  Increase supply of an item via quasi government institutions and prices of that item will definitely drop.

Government doesn't need to make a loss or subsidize items.

18/09/2023, 5:37 pm - +~L: Who needs air conditioning? Who has air conditioning? Two very different things.

18/09/2023, 5:38 pm - +~L: 6k for a family of 4 Inc teenagers... not sure what life/interests they are able to pursue. Not much to inspire the kids who will grow up resenting the society that didn't care about them.

18/09/2023, 5:39 pm - +~L: 6k a month is apparently ok when there are many people here earning 6k a week. If they don't need 6k a week, then why not tax them a bit more?

18/09/2023, 5:39 pm - +Sh Koh: Yes.. agreed. It is hard..

18/09/2023, 5:40 pm - +Frankie Wee: Go back in old kampung 

Kopitiam

18/09/2023, 5:40 pm - +~L: Spend that tax on offering opportunities for low income kids.

18/09/2023, 5:40 pm - +~L: We need to support the next generation, and I see a big division coming if we don't fix it.

18/09/2023, 5:46 pm - +Rama: So, don't expect extravagant handouts from government.

18/09/2023, 5:48 pm - +Smiley face: "The Basic Plus Budget"

"The idea of a basic costs of living is a known fact and the 'plus factor of parental cares' is one cost that must not be neglected because more and more Seniors are aging and the bills to pay also added to their monthly expenses. Last but not least, we should not assume that majority of our Seniors have passive savings and perpetually having sufficient cash or CPF to live their lives till their last days."

- - anonymity

18/09/2023, 5:49 pm - +Rama: Very dangerous with a fast aeging population

18/09/2023, 5:49 pm - +~L: Is our export market being wiped out? https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/key-exports-fall-singapore-august-11-straight-months-decline-3778276

18/09/2023, 5:49 pm - +Rama: Recession coming!?

18/09/2023, 5:50 pm - +Frankie Wee: Core cost of living

18/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +Smiley face: No danger if we planned ahead and worked as ONE PEOPLE... like any crisis, we planned for it then let it come unprepared!

Thanks, Andrew!

18/09/2023, 5:51 pm - +~L: Keeping inflation down with a strong currency is impacting our export markets which will cost jobs.

18/09/2023, 5:52 pm - +Smiley face: A global issue that is highly complex and complicated all because of vested nation to nation interest.

Thanks, L!

18/09/2023, 5:52 pm - +~L: Work as One People, but get paid according to what?

18/09/2023, 5:52 pm - +Frankie Wee: Business sell price Rsp and cost of profit to pay wage increase.

If business fell short then sell won’t make margin profit. 

When inflation keep rising (something against hike from FED global)

18/09/2023, 5:52 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, do not compare to your peers, neighbors and cross the border to elsewhere!

18/09/2023, 5:53 pm - +~L: Our leading economiats get paid over $6k per DAY to solve these problems. Leading bankers get over $60k per DAY.

18/09/2023, 5:53 pm - +Smiley face: The Oil price is going towards US$100, the next thing is inflation vs deflation! Nations vs Nations!

18/09/2023, 5:54 pm - +Frankie Wee: Big issue is oil prices affected

18/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Smiley face: Our neighboring countries are having high unemployment rates or lower wages that come with lower or not so low costs of living; the key is employment and wage increase, two tests!

18/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Smiley face: Die liao lor!

18/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Frankie Wee: 🫣

18/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Smiley face: Let the chaos start from November onwards!

18/09/2023, 5:55 pm - +Rama: Anyone remember then PM od Malaysia  (Abdullah Basawi) who said that if oil price hits usd100.00, the country would consider nuclear energy!?

18/09/2023, 5:56 pm - +Rama: We also had the then part blind president of Indonesia who was considering similar?

18/09/2023, 5:56 pm - +Smiley face: It takes a decade to know how and to safely implement the nuclear reactor!

When you wish to abandon it, it takes another decade to dismantle all of it...

18/09/2023, 5:57 pm - +Rama: We are caught in between!

18/09/2023, 5:57 pm - +Rama: Dumping location also critical!

18/09/2023, 5:57 pm - +Smiley face: No worries at all, SG is aggressively seeking for energy from LNG to alternative and renewable energy!

18/09/2023, 5:58 pm - +Rama: A very far sighted government we are blessed with

18/09/2023, 5:58 pm - +Smiley face: Discharge outside water in SG and both neighbors will ban you!

18/09/2023, 5:58 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, but the govt just doesn't know how to COMMUNICATE effectively!

18/09/2023, 5:58 pm - +Rama: Japan currently facing chiba and South Korea on the fukushima issue!

18/09/2023, 5:58 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 5:59 pm - +Smiley face: Watch Russia! They have threatened to start a war with Japan should their water be highly contaminated with the nuclear water flowing from Japan to Russia water!

18/09/2023, 6:00 pm - +Rama: They themselves are irresponsible in dismantling dumping their military nuclear reactors!

18/09/2023, 6:01 pm - +Smiley face: The pot telling the kettle is black?

18/09/2023, 6:01 pm - +Rama: Yes

18/09/2023, 6:01 pm - +Smiley face: Do not discount Russia! When they said they will do it!

18/09/2023, 6:02 pm - +Frankie Wee: Russia people need to vote new President and put out to stop the war and cost them price every single to pay.

18/09/2023, 6:03 pm - Your security code with ~ REACH Singapore changed. Tap to learn more.

18/09/2023, 6:03 pm - +Smiley face: Frankie, wait longer abit...

18/09/2023, 6:03 pm - +Rama: Vote is always rigged!

18/09/2023, 6:03 pm - +Frankie Wee: Sanctions is cut off trade and no longer market

18/09/2023, 6:04 pm - +Frankie Wee: Russia still on black market

18/09/2023, 6:04 pm - +Rama: Black Market!

18/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Smiley face: If the FED reaches a 6% interest rate hike, the following long term treasure bonds will look attractive! It's an inverse relationship IR and TB

18/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Smiley face: Yes, ya, yupp!

18/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Frankie Wee: Too high

18/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Rama: Keep a look out!

18/09/2023, 6:05 pm - +Smiley face: Nope!

18/09/2023, 6:06 pm - +Smiley face: BRICS, how to contain the growth trajectory of this competing force?

18/09/2023, 6:06 pm - +Frankie Wee: New dollar BRICS

18/09/2023, 6:07 pm - +Frankie Wee: Because of Russia join in trade deal with China set BRICS 

China know USA is going to block trade

18/09/2023, 6:07 pm - +Smiley face: Have to wait longer abit...

The Koreans are in deep deep trouble, the latest Huawei handphones are full of Korean microchips!

18/09/2023, 6:07 pm - +Rama: Yankees lack foresight!

18/09/2023, 6:08 pm - +Smiley face: Lets wait longer to see...

18/09/2023, 6:08 pm - +Frankie Wee: China ownself and do not follow US nor UN and international law

18/09/2023, 6:08 pm - +Rama: Agree

18/09/2023, 6:09 pm - +Smiley face: BRICS world order!

18/09/2023, 6:11 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

The "basic" basket of items shift over time. This, I agree.

1. Free or lower- costs options have  closed on us. In my younger days, 100% whole grain rice was good, 100% whole -grain fragrant rice was a luxury. We could choose the cheapest non 100% whole grain rice as our staple. That option was available then. Today, the basic standard is 100% whole grain fragrant rice. I remembered there was a well nearby our home. Well water was free, although insufficient. Non air con bus fares were cheaper. Now it is not an option. So we have to keep up with the higher quality goods and services. The "basic" goes up.

2 New norms come entered our lives. Such as mobile devices and connections. So the "basic" goes up again.

 

3. But when there are choices and more cost effective ones, I would consider the more expensive choices as "consumption". <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 6:12 pm - +Smiley face: Competitive Economy and the Patterns of Consumption

18/09/2023, 6:12 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

My  close friend comments:-

I tend to think in terms of bare subsistence needs first and for different groups of people, they have their own delta to stack on top. 

Those delta, is our own level of comfort <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 6:13 pm - +Smiley face: RM2000 job vs S$2000 job

18/09/2023, 6:35 pm - +KL: Cheap labour ?

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - +Joseph Yap: 💬 *What are your views on the report? Is there sufficient support in place for those who need it? Should a differentiation be made between basic needs and what individuals would like to have?* 

The report provided a realistic reflection of household expenses.

Support are still insufficient for lower income households. 

Greater redistribution of income from the top 20% well-off to the lower-income could be in the form of wealth tax eg. capital gain tax on private property/ commercial property and estate tax as well as higher luxury taxes eg. separate COE category for luxury cars.

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - +lesli: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:39 pm - +Frankie Wee: Mean talk cost of living compared to Malaysia vs Singapore 

RM$2000 vs SG$2000

18/09/2023, 6:41 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

What defines basic needs:-

1. Slippers $2 from daiso. 

2. Lux soap bar 0.50 cents.

3. Fairprice coffee 13 cents a packet.

4. Chicken Sadia $4.70 <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 6:41 pm - +Smiley face: Malaysia's cost of living isn't cheap anymore!

18/09/2023, 6:42 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Clothing from neighbourhood retail stores:-

1. $10 a shirt

2. Singlets $10 - 3 pieces

No designer clothes, no vanity stuff on my body.

18/09/2023, 6:43 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 6:43 pm - +KL: So u got ntuc membership :) ?

18/09/2023, 6:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singlets got one big lobang hole - still can wear at home.

18/09/2023, 6:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hence this is the Basic needs.

Can live happily.

No need vanity items.

18/09/2023, 6:44 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes I do.

18/09/2023, 6:45 pm - +KL: Maybe I got one question to ask why ntuc membership need 108 dollar to get offer or more linkpoint rebate ?

18/09/2023, 6:45 pm - +KL: So it made ntuc membership a essential or necessity?

18/09/2023, 6:46 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

Huh?

Cannot remember 108 dollar for NTUC membership.

I don't remember paying.

18/09/2023, 6:47 pm - +KL: Maybe I remeber incorrectly :(

18/09/2023, 6:47 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

⏰ We will be closing the chat in *15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

18/09/2023, 6:47 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

But I recall I bought NTUC shares - got free membership.

18/09/2023, 6:50 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

And yet I attend and go big hotel events, high class places for events - respectable, presentable, and professional - without the need of designer clothes, perfumes that smell like a walking flower or expensive jewellery to make me look wealthy and important.

Beauty comes from the inner heart, not what a person wear or how luxurious items the person use.

18/09/2023, 6:53 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

And I give 2 presentation in a 5 stars hotel to a group of 1,000 VIPs - among 13 speakers from local and overseas speakers.

Both my presentation rated 1st and 2nd - while wearing my neighborhood clothings without designer clothes, jewellery or perfumes. <This message was edited>

18/09/2023, 6:54 pm - +Rama: Very down to earth but message sent across professional

18/09/2023, 6:57 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

I still recall PM Lee got 3 small holes in his singlet at home.

His wife say, you are a PM - doesn't look good to wear a torn singlet.

PM Lee say, at home nobody see.

Also the holes are not big holes still can wear, why waste it?

A typical Hakka with good value system.

18/09/2023, 6:58 pm - ☸️  Danny 心: 

5. Thai white rice - about $5.60 per 5 kg.

Good value for money.

18/09/2023, 6:58 pm - +Rama: Yes

18/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: 18 September, 2023

"Big Data and Analytics and the Ratings of Poverty"

(大数据和分析以及贫困评级)

How to encourage workers age 55 yrs onwards to work either full time or part time?

"MSF/MOM/MOF will have better insights to each individual and households to directly and in micro methods equalise helps and packages from tax breaks, employabilities,  educations, GST vouchers, Cash to medical subsidies. Data minings and generative AI to achieve the goals of increasing equality" 

- - anonymity 

CPF contributions:

For age 55 and onwards, those earnings $5k and below will have additional CPF contributions tri-share from Government, Unions & Employers.

$1500 to $3000  @ additional 4% (2%)*

$3001 to $3999    @ additional 3% (1.5%)*

$4001 to $5000   @ additional 2% (1%)*

*For part timers.

Income Tax:

Preferential tax given to young seniors age 55 onwards especially for those earning below $40,000 annually. No means test.

Ratings Poverty or Middle Income Trap:

Taking from the perspective of the TFR. The ratio of minimal standard of livings and dependancy ratio shall be assumed at 1 : 2. 

What is the pre-determined costs of supporting this 1 : 2 ratio of livings? What are the items included in this calculated sum of expenses? Are each of these items good estimates of the latest costings?

One full-time working adult with Two dependents. The monthly incomes and expenditures.

These dependents classified as either young children or teenagers or young seniors or physical/mental/medical disabled or elderly parent.

MOH:

With the latest Healthier SG program, if we achieved 90% membership. It will be beneficial for MOH to provide accurate medical data on issues, challenges and expenditures per individual, per household monthly and per year basis.

All these medical data shall form part of the means analytics of households together with the CPF contributions and monthly income and the ratio of dependancy.

Afterwords:

"The Basic Plus Budget"

"The idea of a basic costs of living is a known fact and the 'plus factor of parental cares' is one cost that must not be neglected because more and more Seniors are aging and the bills to pay also added to their monthly expenses. Last but not least, we should not assume that majority of our Seniors have passive savings and perpetually having sufficient cash or CPF to live their lives till their last days."

- - anonymity

Generational Effects:

Generation after generation, father to child/children, child in return taking care of the parents till they depart this world. This cycle of life is the virtue of propriety and it is an Asian culture to do so.

The hot button issues of the costs of living in today's Singapore varies across the socio-economic stature of households and individuals, income and wealth accumulation. The higher a person income is, the higher this person's wealth accumulation it will be compared to the less financially abled person. This cycle of income and wealth inequalities is transparent and it is existential for all developed countries.

"You don't have to rich to be happy, live within your means, and don't compare to others, and you will be happier."

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It is filial to include a monthly allowance to parents either own and/or in-law. It has to come out of the monthly family budget and it can be an expense. The basic monthly budget of a family should include this parental cares including medical emergencies or routine doctor visits and medications, if affordability is not an issue for a family. Otherwise, society will have to take care of our aging population & higher taxes, and either way unavoidable.

It all count down to budgeting and priortising a family needs over wants that will either break or make; what living and life is all about? Importantly, a big happy family!

           - - in progress - -

18/09/2023, 6:59 pm - +Smiley face: For SINGAPORE!

MM Lee Kuan Yew, in his style, his solemn and sentimental moment reciting the Singapore's Pledge. Let's have a minute of silence remembering MM Lee, his comrades and all past Singaporeans their contributions (sweat & blood) to our nation. Majulah Singapura!

18/09/2023, 7:00 pm - +Smiley face: <Media omitted>

18/09/2023, 7:00 pm - +REACH: *Dear Contributors,*

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

18/09/2023, 7:00 pm - ~ REACH Singapore changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group

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