REACH 411 - What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
(SK)
16 Nov 2022 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[9:45 am, 16/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
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[10:04 am, 16/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
About 2.5 million Singaporeans will get up to $700 in cash in December as part of government packages to offset the impact of the goods and services tax (GST) hike and help people cope with rising costs. The $700 comprises two separate payouts. The first tranche of money, which includes other benefits, will be disbursed from December 2022 to February 2023.
This follows a $1.4 billion boost to the support package, making it worth $8 billion, up from $6.6 billion previously.
💬 What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
Eligible Housing Board households will receive an additional GST Voucher – U-Save of up to $95 to offset utility bills, on top of the regular U-Save rebate, in January 2023.
Every Singaporean household will receive $300 Community Development Council vouchers, which can be used at participating heartland merchants and hawkers, as well as supermarkets.
In February 2023, lower-income senior Singaporeans will get up to $300 in cash under the GSTV – Cash (Seniors’ Bonus).
Citizens can check their eligibility for the cash handouts under the Assurance Package and the Cost-of-Living special payment at the Assurance Package official website by logging in with Singpass.
MOF said eligible citizens are encouraged to link their NRIC to PayNow by Nov 20 to receive the payments earlier, starting from Dec 5. The money will be disbursed on Dec 12 to those using bank crediting.
They can also use the LifeSG app to pay merchants by scanning their PayNow or Nets QR code, or transfer the payment to their bank account via PayNow, if they have subsequently linked their NRIC.
To guard against scams, the SMS sent by MOF will only inform citizens of their benefits. They will not be asked to reply, click on any links, or provide information to the sender, the ministry said.
Messages will not be sent via WhatsApp or other messaging platforms.
👉🏼 https://www.govbenefits.gov.sg/
👉🏼 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/about-25-million-singaporeans-to-get-up-to-700-under-support-packages-mof?utm_source=Telegram&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STTG
👉🏼 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/gst-assurance-package-to-be-updated-amid-higher-inflation-details-in-budget-2023-dpm-wong
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[10:24 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
Good morning everyone!
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
Who's getting what?
Will there be a letter addressed to each household and/or individuals their entitled amount whether is cash or vouchers?
Two, should either the cash or the vouchers not arrive on time or missing or did not arrive. What to do next and which department will assist these outstandings or phone numbers to call?
Three, it's been budgeted (spendings) for $8 billions. Looking for that soft spot to land, into the future four quarters or longer, perhaps should there be additional $4 billions ready to disperse just in case the external (macro) situations turn for the worse in 2023?
It takes time for both micro (national) and macro (international) policies to realise each of these calibrated moves.
- - in progress - -
[10:33 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: GST is by it's nature a regressive Tax system. It weighs more on lower income groups.
Despite everything that Minister Wong has said - this is a fact.
I don't know how else the Government can try to spin it.
Not helping that in these years of high inflation, the Government has chosen to join in.
Usual pattern of giving half a chicken foot and taking back a fattened Turkey.
[10:34 am, 16/11/2022] +SL: This important and timely action by the government helps residents to cope with the increased cost of living in this uncertain period
[10:36 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: By Increasing GST during this uncertain period?
[10:36 am, 16/11/2022] +SL: The paynow and govcash arrangement reduced the waiting time of residents receiving this support.
[10:37 am, 16/11/2022] +SL: By providing the government support package
[10:37 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Sure. Give a few hundred and take back thousands. Why not defer the GST increase instead?
[10:38 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
Scale and efficacy:
Over time especially from the past two years, we have learned gotten smarter on these social and economics dispersements of money and vouchers.
Having attained this scale and efficacy, perhaps we should also continue to improve on monitoring of these outgoing funds.
What are the measures and protocols to ensure these targeted funds will reach to the correct ends and the correct amount?
What are the ways to assess these expenditures, not to infringe on personal consumption preferences but to enable a prudent accounting & auditing means?
Afterall, it is the money of taxpayers and the will of the people to enjoy these helpings. Importantly, no one is excluded and our vulnerables from handicapped, single breadwinner and LWW families.
All will get it in full!
- - in progress - -
[10:40 am, 16/11/2022] +SL: “Raising the GST is necessary to help meet our country’s expanding social, security, and other needs.”
[10:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Tax increases can always be rationalised. I would like to see them come up with a way NOT to do it.
[10:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Also this
[10:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: By its nature GST is a flawed system
[10:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Ken: The elderly problem is a long term problem as we have lesser kids
[10:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Ken: 😅
[10:42 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas, good morning!
There is a street narrative that, "Give you $1 and Take from you $5?".
Is it true or are there counter views on this "Give & Take" sensitive narrative, of late our opposite benchers are drumming and grumbling in the house and out?
What is the logical and sensible truth?
[10:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Ken, good morning and a good point too!
Aging is the next social expenditure, coming soon (akan datang)!
Thank you.
[10:46 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Not sure about street narrative per se.
Fact is that the GST system is by its nature regressive.
Fact is it weighs more on lower income groups
I understand the need for revenue, but surely the extremely well paid scholars in the civil service can find a better way to do this?
[10:47 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: One counter point is "Robinhood"...
Taking from the wealthy and helping out the needy ( from poor to cash tight individuals to LWW).
How then to be a Robin if there are limited tangible and taxable areas to hood into?
Where?
[10:48 am, 16/11/2022] +SL: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/ageing-and-health
According to WHO :”By 2030, 1 in 6 people in the world will be aged 60 years or over.”
[10:49 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: That's why the ministers are getting paid millions to answer this question, no?
[10:51 am, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Tamasek gave $205m to the collapsed FTX exchange, and lost it all. Where was the oversight on that investment? Why no board members from Tamasek. It would be good to find out how that happened and ensure it doesn't happen again.
[10:52 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: GST is a broad based consumptions taxonomy. The more or the higher value items one purchase, she/he will pay more.
Property stamp duties are luxury taxonomy.
Car import tax and COE are utility taxonomy.
What other areas?
[10:52 am, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2022/11/10/exclusive-these-investors-stand-to-lose-the-most-from-ftxs-implosion/?sh=5eba064d2670
[10:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: As a percentage of usable income after cpf, this impacts the lower income group more. Basic math.
[10:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: GST is one way to tax the rich, the foreigner and tourist and redirect the revenue to lower the impact of the increase on lower income and to pay for the health care and social spending on the aged and less privilege. Where is the devil?
[10:54 am, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Agreed, the GST implementation is effective on Singapore. Other counties it is less fair because rich and poor pay the same tax on staple goods, so it is a much higher proportion of their income.
[10:55 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Am sure there will be a lot of people who will want to know who's head will roll for this, just as I am sure we will never be told
[10:55 am, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Yes correct. In Singapore the GST offset protects lower paid.
[10:55 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Government already mentioned that every one dollar collected, the lower income will receive $4. How is it be regressive? You must will it as one package. GST is regressive. But GST with the support package is progressive
[10:55 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: True!
Inflationary times, all vulnerable are the one that suffers the most!
Let this disbursement of funds continue with special cares given to our vulnerables.
[10:56 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Sorry, am not convinced by this.
[10:56 am, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: It's the lack of oversight that bothers me. I understand some investments fail, but for that sum of money we had no control or insights. Where was the due diligence?
[10:58 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You can't just stick bandaids and plasters on a flawed system and call it progressive. Yes, the handouts will offset the COL increase this year. What about next? And the years after that.
To call it look at it as a package and therefore progressive is extremely myopic and typical of the KPI driven civil service decision making culture
[10:58 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: The goods and services tax (GST) rate will increase from 7 to 9 per cent in two stages - one percentage point each time on Jan 1, 2023 and Jan 1, 2024. The GST hike will bring in about 0.7 per cent of gross domestic product in revenue annually - about $3.5 billion - when the full hike is in place in 2024. It will go towards supporting healthcare expenditure and to take care of senior citizens while other areas of social spending rise as well.
To blunt the impact of the GST increase, a $6 billion Assurance Package will ensure that all adult Singaporeans will get cash payouts of between $700 and $1,600 over five years to offset at least five years of additional GST expenses for most households, and 10 years' worth for those living in one- to three-room Housing Board flats.
In addition, the GST Voucher scheme, which has three components - cash, MediSave top-ups and U-Save rebates - will be enhanced when the GST rate is increased. This will fully offset the GST for retiree households living in one- to three-room HDB flats, significantly offset the GST for retiree households living in four- to five-room HDB flats, and offset about half of the GST for lower-income households with no elderly persons.
Payouts under both schemes will start before the GST goes up, so that households here will feel less of a pinch from the tax hike.
[10:59 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Mere peanuts.
[11:00 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Just the cash component for the lowest income is $1600. Unless they spend more than $16k a year, otherwise, it is more than enough to offset.
Let's not forget the CDC vouchers, U save, S&CC rebate, utility rebate, transport voucher etc
[11:01 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: See this pont
[11:01 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Point
[11:01 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi L,
Accountabilities is one concern.
All investments and investables must possess two keys that is either risky or taking risks.
Two, how not to take risks while waiting for income?
Three, investing bonds are old long term and prudent investments. Is it safe or are there also risks and
Taking risks?
An old saying, "certain jobs in life have no glory, a simple example, the goal keeper is one such job?"
[11:01 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: All bandaids meant to justify a flawed system
[11:02 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: I can get behind a higher income tax. Not GST
[11:02 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: This is good enough to offset for 10 years for lower income family.
[11:02 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You have to be joking
[11:02 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Sam, good morning.
Great feedback on $1,600!
It's enough, tough not for too long a period of time.
Thank you.
[11:04 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: 2022 to 2026
[11:05 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Sam, thank you for this poster to enable all to see the spectrum of helpings!
Thank you.
[11:05 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: So a mere 3 4 years of offsets for decades of pain. I don't see your point
[11:07 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: The best way to help to fight inflation is through wage growth. But for lower income or no income group, direct transfer is necessary. Government already said that the support package is sufficient to offset 10 years of GST impact for lower income family.
[11:07 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: "It is never a gentle lady nor gentleman to compare others..."
- - anonymous
This case, just to enable further understanding of what other nations are helping their people.
Please check the externality.
Thank you.
[11:07 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: We can go into figures to illustrate
[11:08 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Another good point hitting all hearts and heads!
Wage growth!
"Salary and Success?"
What is salary?
How about the measurement of success?
Thank you.
[11:12 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: For wage growth, there must come with productivity growth. That's why government is pushing for upskilling and reskilling. A lot of subsidies being provided to those who want to grow.
[11:18 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Please show
[11:19 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: This I agree, having been a happy beneficiary
[11:19 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Can we first define low income? How much is the annual income of low income?
[11:24 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: I wouldn't know. But would hazard to say less than median?
[11:29 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Do you know what is our median income?
[11:30 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: I don't really think less than median is low income. Anyway there was really healthy wage growth over the years
[11:31 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
Those Glorific (no glory) Jobs?
"Teach the man to fish than giving him free fishes... how about this man went on to steal fishes from others pond?"
- - anonymous
Metaphorical:
That Goalie and all cheering and jeering spectators! This targeted goal keeper not only needs to safe all foreseeable and unforeseeable attacks into her/his 12m front!
When endgame comes, should there be a deciding penalty kicks, this poor Goalie will once again crouching between the Post to hopefully save all penalty kicks!
Hopefully teammates and thousands of emotionally charged spectators all eyes glued and zoom into that Post. Will they forgive this Goalie for mistakes and missteps or all cheer, celebrate and conc…
[11:34 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore GST tax is not regressive.
Singapore GST tax is progressive.
As the rich buying luxury goods and big ticket items got tax most of the time.
[11:35 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
The world GST tax is regressive - because government don't grant GST tax relief unlike Singapore.
[11:35 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: If 30k a year household income is considered low, and if the household spend every single cents, 1% GST increase is $300. The assurance package estimated at 5k plus . Sufficient to offset for 18 years
[11:36 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So low and middle income earners get 5 to 10 years relief from GST hike or 2%.
Rich people contribute to GST tax straight away benefiting the nation budget.
[11:37 am, 16/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: $1600 divided by 12 is $320 a year divided by 365 days. We getting rebate of 88 cts a day. Heng ah! For the lower scale families
[11:38 am, 16/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: 00ps should be by 5 yrs
[11:39 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: If increase income tax:-
1. Working people face a big burden to support the rest of the nation - many retirees and not a fair tax.
2. Discouraged people from working.
3. Discouraged enterprising people to work more - as need very high tax to cover the GST revenue.
[11:39 am, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Small money for amount that we going to pay in out lifetime
[11:39 am, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Our”
[11:39 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: For retiree without income and estimated spending of $21,000 a year. Package enough to offset next 30 years
[11:40 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: isnt median individual income somewhere along the 4k mark?
Making take home around 3?
[11:40 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Singapore is a rich nation 😅
[11:41 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: There needs to be stats for median income for Singaporeans, not counting the expats.
[11:41 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
GST tax is a fair tax:-
1. Because everyone who have a stake in the country pay when they spend.
2. Since GST is broad base and everyone chip in - the burden of tax is lower for working people.
3. Hence it is a fair tax.
4. Singapore GST tax rate of 9% is the one of the lowest in the world.
[11:42 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Thomas good analytics.
Median better than averages. There are flaws in taking average.
Thank you.
[11:42 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Sorry - GST is a regressive tax. Bad aiding it with plasters and what not does not make it progressive.
[11:42 am, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Indranee Rajah mentioned in Parliament previously losses are acceptable part of investment
[11:42 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
GST - broadbase tax
1. GST is a broad base tax. As long as anyone spend - a tax is levy.
2. GST is a fair tax - because everyone who are resident in Singapore or foreigners who come to Singapore buy goods and services - they pay a percentage of tax.
Since everyone has a stake in the Economy - it is fair for everyone to pay. No free rider.
3. It is fair for everyone to chip in to pay a small tax - so that Government can use it to pay yearly recurring expenses that fund our population healthcare, education, and many social services.
4. As GST is a spending tax (as all people need to spend to live their life) - it provide a stable source of revenue for the Government to finance the running cost - unlike other tax structure such as income tax, corporate tax - that will depend on whether the company is profitable to pay corporate tax, and if a person is working to earn sufficient income to be taxed.
5. Hence, in financial principle, as fiscal instrument - GST is an appropriate tax instrument for all Government to finance its running cost.
This will ensure that Singapore will continue to be financial prudent - and ensure we always maintain a balanced budget and sound, prudent fiscal policy --- without incurring high public debt or digging into our reserves and depleting our financial reserves that our many generations have painstakingly earn and build.
6. Incidentally, our GST taxes at 9% is among the lowest in the World as compared to many developed Countries.
7. As economist say that GST is a regressive tax - whereby lower and middle income earners contribute the largest share of their income to pay tax - it is true for other Countries in the World - but not in Singapore.
Because :-
a. Singapore provide Reassurance relief package specifically - GST voucher, town council rebate, U-save rebate to subsidise energy, CDC voucher - that will help low and middle income cover the GST hike (in this case 10 years for low income and 5 years for middle income earners).
For many years, these reliefs - have becoming a permanent features as our Government maintain a sound balance fiscal policy - as our Economy do well years after years, do not incur debt, grow our reserves without frivolously depleting our reserves and earn good investment income that contribute to a larger NIRC, and not incurring budget deficit year after year - as we strive to maintain budget surplus for many years in good times.
b. The rich - especially the super rich, the ultra rich, the millionaires - are paying a big proportion of the GST - as they buy big ticket items in flashy, luxuries goods, cars, houses. Foreigners who come to Singapore to work, tour also pay a big part of GST and they are not granted GST relief.
Statistics show :-
i. Foreigners and tourist contribute 50% of the total GST revenue.
ii. Super rich, the ultra rich, the millionaires Singaporeans - contribute 20% of the total GST revenue.
iii. The remaining 30% GST revenue - are contributed by 80% of the middle and low income group.
c. Hence GST is not a regressive tax in Singapore - unlike other Countries in the World - because our Government GST relief scheme - cushion the lower and middle income group - and GST are mostly paid by forigners and our super rich.
[11:43 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Median and the entire spanning distribution curve. That's the full big picture.
[11:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: I would really like to see median Singaporean Household income. We dont have those numbers yes?
[11:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Resident = SG+PR+WP/EP
[11:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Who want it?
[11:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: me =P
[11:44 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: haha
[11:45 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Tall order! But can be relieved.
[11:45 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Singaporean and PR
[11:45 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Hi Danni, good point.
To confirm this GST regime.
Thank you.
[11:46 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
2 graduates in a family $4,600 X 2 already $9,200 per month.
[11:46 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Sam you sure doesn't include EP/WP?
[11:49 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Yes.
[11:50 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: If you think there are many EP and WP that earns a lot of money. That would be good for GST increase
[11:51 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Why not Income tax? Same effect. Also, WP/EP might not spend money here. The Malaysians sure dont.
[11:51 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: The FT Indians are legendary for not spending in SG
[11:52 am, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: According to this Analysis.
If $4,200 is the likely median household starting income, this case we assume is a single income household.
Two, the LWW present income is $2,500 or lower. Applying the same assumption of a single income household.
What is the affordability threshold for the above two sample households?
During any given economics crisis whether is inflation, or recession, or worse case of a depression.
What is the point of attrition for each of this sample?
What is the minimum tolerance of a SINGLE household income based on the above analysis?
Thank you!
[11:52 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: And even with it it disproportionately hits the lower income group harder on a dollar basis
Your point being?
[11:53 am, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Didn't you see the chart on GST tax relief?
[11:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 1) assumes we have a welfare system. You're not making sense
[11:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 88cents a day over 5 years?
[11:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: yeap definitely saw
[11:53 am, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: so whats your point?
[11:58 am, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Hi Thomas, it is not easy to tax the really rich as they can structure the income to pay lesser tax with elaborate tax avoidance techniques. Just like Trump doesn't pay much tax. Furthermore we don't want to chase them away. We want them to stay and spend. The 2022 budget already have measure in place to tax the rich.
[0:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 1) I don't disagree with your point.
2) But because it's difficult, doesn't mean we shouldn't try?
3) Also I'm not aiming the remarks at the Ultra HNW. I wouldn't mind paying more in income tax if it means the benefits are more defined,
[0:01 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. A family assume spend $30,000 a year on expenses.
2. GST hike of 2% is $600 per year.
For 1 month is $50.
3. Based on the chart, the GST tax relief is $3850 for a family and $6810 for elderly - more than cover the GST hike.
[0:02 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: exactly. 5 years later all gone and the GST is still there. Your point being?
[0:02 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Anyway, there are more effective way to tax the rich, that's why we have increase taxes on purchase of luxurious car and real estates
[0:03 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: not really taking about the UHNW here..... More the tax brackets above middle class.
[0:03 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Then depending on fiscal health.
If our economy continue to do well, GST tax relief could be a permanent features.
Aren't we receiving gst voucher every year?
[0:04 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Maybe? This is can be the epilogue to the famous " Ah Seng and Ah Kong" story...
Hopefully, this epilogue can reach Mr Leong too?
Thank you.
[0:04 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: For foreigner buying a 3million dollar property, just ABSD is $900k
[0:04 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: I would rather see tax rate go up here
[0:05 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Middle class already crying on 1% GST and here you want to raise their income tax?
[0:05 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So you encourage taxing people who are working - and reduce our nation's competitiveness ?
[0:06 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: We are competing with Hong Kong for talents, we need to be competitive
[0:10 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Amazon to layoff 10,000 employees.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/amazon-likely-to-lay-off-10000-employees-starting-this-week-nyt/articleshow/95515213.cms
[0:10 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
"Sea e-commerce arm Shopee cuts jobs in third round of layoffs this year, including in Singapore"
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/sea-e-commerce-arm-shopee-cuts-jobs-in-third-round-of-layoffs-this-year-including-in-s-pore#:~:text=Sea%20e%2Dcommerce%20arm%20Shopee%20cuts%20jobs%20in%20third%20round%20of%20layoffs%20this%20year%2C%20including%20in%20Singapore
[0:10 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
"Layoff spree in Silicon Valley spells end of an era for Big Tech"
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/layoff-spree-silicon-valley-spells-160015301.html#:~:text=Layoff%20spree%20in%20Silicon%20Valley%20spells%20end%20of%20an%20era%20for%20Big%20Tech
[0:10 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Credit Suisse cuts senior bank jobs in Asia, including Singapore, as overhaul begins.
Even banks start cutting jobs - following the heels of big tech.
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/credit-suisse-cuts-senior-bank-jobs-in-asia-as-overhaul-begins
[0:12 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So you think jobs are 100% safe when retrenchment is coming in huge wave.
If increase income tax, I can assure more business will axe jobs - since you are making our tax uncompetitive.
[0:15 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: That band I highlighted is hardly middle class
[0:15 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
If based on your suggestion to impose higher income tax - get yourself ready to lose your job when recession hit.
[0:15 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: So you'd rather tax the poor more? Well done
[0:16 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Hahaha. Alright. If that's what you think
[0:16 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
GST tax relief don't seems to get into your head.
You ask for figures, many people feed you.
You don't seems to get convinced.
[0:17 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 88 cents a day is hardly convincing.
[0:18 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: And it's all gone in 5 years. I still don't see your point.
[0:18 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You keep beating the same bush
[0:18 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
You are the one that keep beating around the bush
[0:19 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Your point being? That hardly offsets the increases stacked up
[0:19 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You happily ignore this
[0:20 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So you still maintains higher income tax and drive more retrenchment?
[0:22 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You assume it will drive more retrenchment
[0:22 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: And what I said was this
[0:22 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: This.
[0:23 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Arguing with you is like driving further into a bull horn.
Not worth my time.
[0:25 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Haha. I have the same opinion. It's like trying to educate a sponge
[0:26 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
But luckily many rational people are able to understand the argument and seems like you don't have alot of followers.
[0:27 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Haha. Okay, if you say so
[0:29 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
The rationale is not to convince you who will not bend to drink water.
The rationale is to convince the majority.
And if the majority is convinced, then this mean not many buy your arguments.
[0:31 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/why-use-singapore-as-a-base-for-asean-expansion/
Singapore is globally renowned as a business-friendly destination that offers a stable socio-political environment, free-market economy, highly efficient infrastructure, and an attractive tax regime.
[0:32 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore tax regime is attractive and a magnet for business and creating jobs.
Hence our tax system is competitive, and fair.
[0:36 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
And if we ask the majority of the people, will they prefer to lose jobs or pay 2% more GST cushion by GST relief?
I can assure you paying gst hike is preferable to losing jobs.
What you propose is pushing more people to lose jobs.
[0:42 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Raising GST is definitely not a popular policy and will have political cost on PAP. The question is what are the alternatives. There are many alternatives that will cause no pain to people in short term but will have big implications for Singapore future. It takes courage to do the right thing when many fail to see the long term benefits.
[0:52 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
Salary & Success?
"Pay that man the basic for his job and he will feed his family. Pay this man more and he will start to plan more for his family?"
- - anonymous
What is salary and what is success?
Salary is one means to provide a stable living condition acceptable to that person's specific existential way of livings.
Success is the path of reaching out to obtain the reachable or the unreachable goals and the feelings of self fulfillment upon reaching one goal. There on the meanings of this individual life's would be redefined to either towards contentment or contesting for more successes.
- - in progress - -
[0:54 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: Successful is closer to the endings of contentment?
[0:58 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Hahaha. If you say so. If those arguements were convincing, why will Reach still bring this subject out for discussion, why will there still be unhappiness about it.
It's good that you're convinced you're right.
[1:01 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
No one is happy about tax.
But it is picking one that has least impact to the whole nation competitiveness that will drive investors away together with our jobs.
You propose something that hurt our people in the long run.
Though people are unhappy about the GST hike - many still rationalize that it is better than other alternatives.
[1:01 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parenting-education/s-poreans-must-avoid-sense-of-entitlement-and-develop-collective-responsibility-instead-sun-xueling
ST news - 16/11/22:
One possible unintended consequence of Singapore’s meritocracy is that those who have succeeded in the system may develop a sense of entitlement, said Minister of State for Social and Family Development Sun Xueling.
These “winners” may believe that their success is fully earned because of their capabilities and effort, and that the “losers” do not deserve help because they did not put in enough effort for themselves, she said on Tuesday.
- - MOS Sun Xueling
But Ms Selvakumar said that while she found the discussions productive and engaging, more can be don…
[1:06 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You're assuming it will hurt. I believe get hurts more.
[1:07 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Your truth in your mind might not be THE truth
[1:07 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Imagine 3.5 million working people need to contribute to $2 billion tax revenues - if pay income tax.
Compared to 5.65 million contribute to $2 billion tax revenues - through GST contributed mainly by foreigners and rich people.
Which is better?
[1:08 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Like I say I don't need to convince you.
We only need to convince the majority.
[1:11 pm, 16/11/2022] +~typing.....: This is completely normal for early stage investment where the risk/reward is high.
A balanced investment portfolio has a mix of safe, moderate and risky investments and it’s the risky investments (like this one) which can give the portfolio the great returns if they come good but some will go bad.
If you didn’t take a risk with these kind of investments your returns would be average at best.
[1:14 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Yes, compared to other countries Singapore is faring better in this global economic downturn. Look at the problems in the US and Europe. Inflation at 10% is far worse than 1% GST.
[1:15 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Like I mentioned in my post. I understand some investments don't succeed. The problem here was the lack of due diligence and oversight how the money was being used.
[1:16 pm, 16/11/2022] +RH: Dear Thomas,
This discussion on Taxes & GST had alredi bn done in much detail in prev grp chat recently.
Wher were you then, Thomas, when the discussion was open?
While it may still seem relevant , however, today's topic is abt the General Assurance Package overall.
Whatever tt you want to say has bn heard and we note your views.
To each his own and
we all agree to disagree --- tt is wat this forum is for.
Therefore, enuff said on this topic.
Let's move on, ok ?
Tq very much.
😉
[1:17 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Good luck with that
[1:18 pm, 16/11/2022] +~typing.....: But you don't know that there was a lack of due diligence or oversight.
Early stage investments are a hedge - you invest in lots of them and hope that one or two comes good.
[1:20 pm, 16/11/2022] +~typing.....: In relation to early stage/start-up investments like FTX (which are inherently risky), out of 10 investments you’d generally expect: about half to completely fail (i.e. complete loss); two to three to break even (i.e. return the initial investment and nothing more); one or two to do well (i.e. 2-5 times investment) and (hopefully) one to do spectacularly well (i.e. 10x or more).
Those one or two good/great investments are ones which mean that the overall return (over the ten investments) is very good.
By taking a risk, your overall return is good but some of the constituent investments will fail. But if you don’t take a risk you’ll only get limited returns.
[1:20 pm, 16/11/2022] +~typing.....: You can't single out one investment.
[1:21 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/11/technology/ftx-investors-venture-capital.html
[1:23 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: "No investors joined FTX’s board of directors, which was made up of Mr. Bankman-Fried, an FTX employee and a lawyer. "
[1:23 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Seems like an opportunity for abuse - while I agree many were duped, inc. Tamasek, there were major red flags.
[1:23 pm, 16/11/2022] +~typing.....: Netflix looked like a daft investment when it mailed you DVDs twice a month. I bet those early investors didn't face scrutiny when fast home internet causes Netflix to pivot.
[1:24 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
You are fighting a very lone battle.
Majority are not convinced by what you say.
[1:24 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Again, I understand there is risk in investment. You mitigate that risk by taking precautions. Clearly there were few precautions taken here.
[1:24 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Yes, yes, keep telling yourself that Danny
[1:25 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: Can't say it again, some investments work and some don't. We all know that. The point about FTX was that they offered no insights into company operation and shouldn't have been given $205M of Singapore's money.
[1:26 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Interesting to discover a denial in this group.
[1:27 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Yes yes, what ever floats your boat.
[1:28 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
This is what make Trump famous for the wrong reason.
Interesting to discover one in this group.
You certainly make a bang entry into this group.
[1:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You're making really huge assumptions and namecalling for someone who can only cut and paste scrfeenshots
[1:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: but then again
[1:30 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Hahaha.
I am happy.
[1:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Whatever floats your boat.
[1:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: We will never see eye to eye on this. So no point in name calling =)
[1:31 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: you assume your view is majority - I think you're wrong. End of it.
[1:31 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
No problem.
Like what I say I don't need to convince you - as long as the majority are convinced.
[1:31 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: you assume your view is majority - I think you're wrong. End of it
[1:32 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: I'm stopping =)
[1:32 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Oh glee...
[1:32 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Have a good Day danny.
[1:32 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Got better things to do
[1:42 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: On a lighter note, Trump is running for president again 🤣
[1:42 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
But gop start to turn against him.
[1:43 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
"Conservatives turn fire on Trump over midterm debacle ahead of expected announcement of presidential run"
https://sg.yahoo.com/news/conservatives-turn-fire-trump-over-225929827.html#:~:text=AFP%20News-,Conservatives%20turn%20fire%20on%20Trump%20over%20midterm%20debacle%20ahead%20of%20expected%20announcement%20of%20presidential%20run,-John%20Bowden
[1:44 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: MAGA returns as MAGAGA.... Make America Great And Glorious Again.
[1:44 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: 🤦
[1:45 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: he..... might win..... again.....
[1:46 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 🤦🏻♂️
[1:47 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Populist policies will make people happy in the short term - but bankrupt the nation in the long run - chase out business and cause job loss.
It becomes penny wise pound foolish.
Thus never let some people who use populist policies to trick people and let them fall into abyss in the long term.
This is what a responsible government with long term view need to do.
[1:54 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.scmp.com/business/article/3199336/hong-kong-must-launch-new-investment-products-tax-incentives-compete-singapore-family-offices-scmp
Hong Kong must launch new investment products, tax incentives to compete with Singapore for family offices, SCMP panel told.
Hong Kong has all the fundamentals required for being a family office hub, Credit Suisse specialist says.
Greater Bay Area will also help city attract such firms, Raffles Family Office executive says.
[1:55 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
HK many ultra rich departed HK to come to Singapore.
One of the reason - Singapore tax incentives are attractive.
[1:56 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3199153/china-lags-behind-us-south-korea-japan-and-singapore-talent-competitiveness-report-says
China lags behind the US, South Korea, Japan and Singapore in ‘talent competitiveness’, report says.
China ranks eighth in the world in terms of ‘talent competitiveness’, behind the US, South Korea, Japan and Singapore, according to a new report.
[1:57 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: You know SCMP has an Axe to grind against the Chinese Govt, yes?
Their views might not be balanced.
[1:57 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Singapore score high in talent competitiveness.
If we increase income tax - our talent competitiveness will drop - talent leave or not coming.
Rich people leave together with their business.
Then more Singaporeans will lose jobs.
[2:00 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://home.kpmg/sg/en/home/media/press-contributions/2018/01/singapore-needs-to-remain-competitive.html
[2:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
About 2.5 million Singaporeans will get up to $700 in cash in December as part of government packages to offset the impact of the goods and services tax (GST) hike and help people cope with rising costs. The $700 comprises two separate payouts. The first tranche of money, which includes other benefits, will be disbursed from December 2022 to February 2023.
This follows a $1.4 billion boost to the support package, making it worth $8 billion, up from $6.6 billion previously.
💬 What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
Eligible Housing Board households will receive an additional GST Voucher – U-Save of up to $95 to offset utility bills, on top of the reg…
[2:00 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
I thought you leave already.
[2:01 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: Just dont want to argue with you on GST nia =P
[2:01 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
To: Our Distinguished Leaders, SFA Experts, and All Honorable Members
Rice Diplomacy and Self Sufficient?
Indonesia has reported a surplus since 2017 YTY of 2 million tons of rice ready to export. Assuming $1.0b to procure including warehousing or silo, shippings and agent commissions.
Perhaps its worth to explore this surplus of rice to forward contract these tonnages for the next 10 years.
This contingency strategy of "just in case" our existing supplies from China, India, Vietnam and Thailand should one day does happens by any chance short of rice, this new Indonesia rice will cover it.
How about rice diplomacy?
China alone is one country that needs rice as one staple for their daily foods.
https://www.reuters.com/business/e…
[2:02 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
So there are many articles that say the same as SCMP.
Do a Google search - there are too many that say the same.
[2:03 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 75% agree. Some of their points are very biased though.
Anything that brushes up on China especially.
[2:03 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/060716/why-singapore-considered-tax-haven.asp
What Makes Singapore a Tax Haven?
[2:11 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
Cassava, the Alternative?
Indonesia is the world fifth largest cassava producer MOCAF an alternative flour to wheat flour which contains gluten in it unlike MOCAF is gluten free!
Just in case, Ukraine and Russia unables, we need to change abit of our ingredient to bake, to cook and lastly our taste pallet into this "gluten free" flour?
- - in progress - -
[2:12 pm, 16/11/2022] +RH: He's a BIG Joke !
A disgrace !
Likewise, those who think highly of him.
🤦🏼♀️
[2:14 pm, 16/11/2022] +~L or BL: An excellent scheme, considerate and well thought through. No one wants increased costs, but right now it's a reality and this is a good measure to help support those through the transition.
[2:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +65 9489 5389: This is a racist statement
[2:52 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: I agree..
[2:53 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: All foreigner workers… they earn is to remit back to their family..
Saving in order for their family to have a better life.
[2:54 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: That what my mum used to do when she work in Singapore sending back to Malaysia.
[2:56 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: The companies that hire them have already paid duty to government for hiring them. And they contribute to our society as well.
[3:01 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Singapore pay decent for the amount of work we do…
And the environment is relatively nice and easy access to cheap food, transportation and most of all safe.
[3:50 pm, 16/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: Interesting I always feel they are pro China. Listen to their commentaries more hitting at the west misunderstanding China
[3:54 pm, 16/11/2022] +Thomas: 70/30. Tend to see them poke the CCP on liberal issues/democracy, but defend China as a country when criticized from outside. It's rather nuanced.
[4:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
About 2.5 million Singaporeans will get up to $700 in cash in December as part of government packages to offset the impact of the goods and services tax (GST) hike and help people cope with rising costs. The $700 comprises two separate payouts. The first tranche of money, which includes other benefits, will be disbursed from December 2022 to February 2023.
This follows a $1.4 billion boost to the support package, making it worth $8 billion, up from $6.6 billion previously.
💬 What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
Eligible Housing Board households will receive an additional GST Voucher – U-Save of up to $95 to offset utility bills, on top of the reg…
[4:10 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: One time wonder boy dotard!
[4:10 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: A very generous assistance
[4:10 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Agree
[4:10 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: I concur
[4:13 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: When they go to a typical Indian vegetarian restaurant in robinson Road (which is free but patrons are asked to give a donation) , always a pathetic one.
[4:23 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: That is nice food, oh well give and take lor… some people donate more some less…
They place is more like charity than business
[5:17 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors
We want to HEAR MORE from you!
What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
We have had good feedback and hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active!
Megan 😊
[5:21 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Abuse by ceca Indians!
[5:24 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: 1) Keep it simple. Don't need cdc vouchers. Just additional cash. Don't have so many ways just to give money to citizens. Staff n infrastructure costs incurred in disbursement.
2) Good to know percentage who links nric versus phone number to paynow. Esp for older folks, alternative means may be needed like direct giro to bank acct
[5:33 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: I think that voucher is a very way to help the needy. Some of the house hold actually don't need government support, so they don't even bother to claim it or spend it. When voucher not utilised, government can channel the savings to needy for subsequent round of support. Voucher is consumption based. It cannot be saved or invested. So the money will be circulated in the economy. Furthermore, CDC voucher will benefit the neighbourhood shops.
[5:37 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: Good point.But if that is the KPI. Then we should track the percentage usage between big shops like ntuc versus small neighbourhood usage. Otherwise there is risk it is circulating bet Gov, those who know how to claim it ( who may not be the most needy) n big boys.
The concern is when we try to hit additional aims beyond the obvious, we may not hit the primary aim well. My assumption 🤩 being that the gov primary aim is helping the most needy
[5:39 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: CDC is meant for neighbourhood shop although the next round they will have some for Fairprice
[5:40 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: CDC voucher in electronic form also promote digital adoption by small shops.
[5:41 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Keep the cdc vouchers
[5:44 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: All kopitiam and foodfare outlets including all supermarkets.
[5:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +Sam: Is this true?
[5:51 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. If give cash instead of vouchers, some people may just gamble the money away - instead of using the voucher to buy food.
[5:52 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Hopefully
[6:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢
About 2.5 million Singaporeans will get up to $700 in cash in December as part of government packages to offset the impact of the goods and services tax (GST) hike and help people cope with rising costs. The $700 comprises two separate payouts. The first tranche of money, which includes other benefits, will be disbursed from December 2022 to February 2023.
This follows a $1.4 billion boost to the support package, making it worth $8 billion, up from $6.6 billion previously.
💬 What are your views on the Government support package to offset the impact of the GST hike and help people cope with rising costs?
Eligible Housing Board households will receive an additional GST Voucher – U-Save of up to $95 to offset utility bills, on top of the reg…
[6:00 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Eg. Buy 4D, buy Toto.
Lose then say, inflation very high, gst increase - cannot tahan.
With CDC voucher - you can only buy food or grocery from those stalls that accept CDC voucher.
Then you won't go hungry, won't complain gst rise, inflation - because you don't have to fork out money to buy your food and groceries.
The family won't go hungry.
[6:02 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: AGREE
[6:03 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: It happened many years ago when an elderly man so!
[6:04 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Same thing for u-save rebate - meant to cushion high energy prices.
U-save only can use to pay power bill.
Instead of cash to buy 4D, buy Toto.
So the household won't say power bill too high, gst, inflation - cannot pay - power cut.
[6:14 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: Above all great thoughts. But we may want to concretise the purposes.
Ntuc vouchers also can use to buy liquor n cigarettes ( just need to ask at the counter). So if social protection is the goal, utilities make sense to me.
Vouchers can be additional, administer through FSCs to maximise social impact since monitored by social workers for those struggling with habits.
[6:24 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
Previously all CDC voucher can only be used to buy food, groceries and some miscellaneous in participating neighbourhood shops.
But now understand that 50% can be used in supermarkets like NTUC, shengshiong, giants etc.
And this mean CDC voucher can be used to buy liquor and cigarettes - which are sin goods - and don't help in cushioning the food inflation as well as gst hike - which is the main purpose of the CDC voucher.
Hence government should consider not allowing CDC voucher to be used to pay for liquor and cigarettes.
[6:28 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: I believe all supermarket is aware of the limitations on using subsidies of an form from the government. Only essential foodstuffs and no alcohol, liquor or tobacco.
[6:28 pm, 16/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: https://www.theedgesingapore.com/news/wealth/xis-crackdowns-drive-chinese-billionaires-booming-singapore
[6:28 pm, 16/11/2022] +Jimmy Chew: That's why gst has to rise. The rich are coming here
[6:28 pm, 16/11/2022] +Caleb: I rem so too. Supermarket cannot use voucher to buy tobacco
[6:29 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: It is a personal choice…. I do think giving them the freedom to choose. Even if sin food/drinks/smoke just simple pleasure in life that we shouldn’t take away from them
[6:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: They can sell at cheaper rate to get what they want… I seen it I know it happen also
[6:30 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: So in the end who benefit?
[6:31 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Basic food items if you join CDC help, you go most of their house are over flow with food..
Singaporean are generous in giving
[6:33 pm, 16/11/2022] +RH: So far, I hv not seen the CDC vouchers being redeemable at NTUC or big supermarts.
More at nbr hood shops, coffee stalls ...
[6:34 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: Actually am wondering how much does it cost to set up and administrate CDC vouchers as well.
Just want to register appreciation to those who worked hard to craft the policy if u are here. I don't know all your considerations. So don't be discouraged by what I write. Still appreciated overall😃
[6:35 pm, 16/11/2022] +Caleb: CDC and gov tech
[6:36 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
1. I think it doesn't make sense for government to give money to people to smoke and harm their health, got lung, throat, nose cancer.
2. Or drink get drunk, driving and hurt themselves or others. Or damage their liver.
3. And then got to use taxpayers money to subside their hospital cost.
I feel that CDC voucher should be ban from paying for liquor and cigarettes.
[6:38 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: So open market for CDC or NUTC Voucher to add more manpower to manage the abuse?
[6:39 pm, 16/11/2022] +Caleb: I think the current vouchers can be abused in coffeeshop. They sell tobacco
[6:39 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Lol… my family use it to buy durian… always… the fruit store uncle super happy
[6:40 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
No need, supermarket will have to comply.
If flout the rules - that can easily tabulate from the receipt against payment by CDC voucher - then impose a fine and published in news.
All these supermarket are reputable establishment - and they won't take the risk to earn a petty and flout it
[6:40 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: They can always sell you someone else to get what they need
[6:40 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Most of them don’t have smart phone so is all vouchers
[6:41 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: They don’t differentiate so that people won’t judge them for using the vouchers
[6:41 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: The whole point of it don’t look different
[6:41 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
The receipt will say CDC voucher plus all the items.
[6:42 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: If they use for reject will it look ugly?
[6:42 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Why cannot? Lol have consider?
[6:43 pm, 16/11/2022] ☸️ Danny 心:
No 100% guarantee but retail stores self checking like scan TT.
If they get caught, they get fine.
So retail stores got to weigh worth it or not.
[6:44 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: I understand your point… but to me too much control might comes as hostile towards them. They are not allow to have simple pleasures in life.
Just how I feel. But I do agree on your point. Just that we can’t control everything
[6:44 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Agree
[6:45 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: I say 100% as I believe cashier payment system is programmed not to accept such payment
[6:45 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
[6:46 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: I think Sg has many schemes to help the financially struggling. With various ministry having schemes. We need to at some point pause and see how much money we are spending to set up n administrate these schemes. And curate periodically to prevent bloating of bureaucracy
[6:46 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: Simple pleasure not a public money expense.
[6:46 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Can be done… but people will know, and will judge them.. like how we judge them now
[6:47 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: Quite a lot is given… those food abuse are not as bad when you know what others have been doing…
[6:47 pm, 16/11/2022] +Rama: The schemes can be tweaked but outright cash should not be increased without due consideration
[6:47 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: I know… 😥
I kena help a person write to get voucher when she is using iPhone better than me.. asking for assistance…
[6:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +Liangwei: 😃
[6:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: If not they will make a scene there 😞
[6:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: It is tough… not many such case but if they disturb your place also don’t look nice at MPS
[6:48 pm, 16/11/2022] +KSFoong: Agree!
[6:50 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: They work example KTV cleaners, or other odd jobs. that have no reported income.. so how? They are low/no income.
[6:50 pm, 16/11/2022] +Ken: I also don’t know how to handle.. let the Seniors settle them
[6:56 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/09/09/the-world-bank-supports-indonesia-agriculture-sector-to-become-more-resilient-and-inclusive
[7:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +Smiley face: 16 November, 2022
To: Our Distinguished Leaders and All Honorable Members
Is Either One or None!
"Eat to live or live to eat, does it matters...?"
- - anonymous
Global Food Security:
What's the dynamics of this complex and inter-related food ecosystem that billions of laymen do not know?
Now the world is facing short supplies of essential food from wheat to corn to meats all due to the change in weather patterns, rising energy prices and the on-going war in Ukraine. And how about the expensive fertilisers that is forcing poorer nations out of reach? Out of ten percent of the world population, more than 300 millions are facing famine and 500 millions are hungry, African continent is short of food! These four big interconnected variables are inflating the entire world food prices and disrupting supplies!
The traditional farmers are aging, many farmlands are either sold or abandoned due to poor yield and they are fading away faster than restarting new ones. And farmers always are short changed for their efforts while buyers and traders benefit the most. Today, there is a greater needs to recruit younger generation to choose farming as a livelihood, billions are not interested or do not have the knowledge and skills to do it. The current aspirations of the global young ones are more attracted to convenience from facilities to amenities and well paid jobs that urban cities could provide them.
The other hand, agricultural activities on the whole is not the first choice of the young ones unless it is a family owned business that passes on to the next generation. How then can we meaningfully encourage more young people to roll their sleeves to work under the hot sun and wet weather? Where are the educations and enablers to reinforce this vital economics of food creations upon our future generations? One enables is to use high tech machineries and equipments to replace the hands-on hard work to climb the scale of production. The use of electric farming vehicles and machineries, AI programs, and unmanned planting, watering, fertising and harvesting will not only increase yield but also more appealing to the younger generations who tends well with technologies.
"Have courage, be daring, the will and generosity to invest in food for tomorrow's sake!"
- - anonymous
A few big hurdles to farming that is financing, fertilizer, faculty, foul weathers and prices.
The real fear is how to avoid failed harvests in this era of climate change?
The economics of farming has to be profitable, above all, pay the future farmers and workers equitably than short changed and taking them for granted.
The supply and demand of food is a tricky business to deal with. Over supply means wastage and rock bottom prices at the farm gate. While a big fall in demand or a change in eating habit of a produce can means the ending of this produce and price falls too.
Where are the capitals to invest and experiments before actual growing and scaling?
Be willing to venture and invest in experiments on how to grow under changing climate conditions using specialised tools from soil tech, seedings to targeted use of organic and/or synthetic fertilizers that is UV soluble for drier weather and water friendlier pallets to conserve the use of water for irrigation. Importantly, are we growing foods out of wants and trends or foods that are healthier and nutritious should be given priority over others.
More investments are needed for agricultural research and finding new technologies to better the yield of crops. It has been estimated that $33 billions is needed yearly up to 2030 in order to achieve zero global hunger. It is a big amount to raise and not many financiers are daring to bet on these agricultural produces unless the investment is guaranteed and the ROI is attractive enough for investors. Can governments provide certain percentage of capital assurance and/or tax benefits or preferential borrowings through bonds to these financiers?
The other funding needs is to provide micro loans to unbank farmers, educate simple business model of costs and profits, introducing newer ways to improve crops yield and lastly, agricultural insurance to cover crops against bad weathers and lost of harvests especially for small community growers and rural farmers in poorer nations which account to 80% of the global farming activities.
"The natural ways are the way in solving many man-made problems,... understand the roots of each cause and applying extraordinary talents and methods to unwind one problem at a time...?"
- - anonymous
If climate change can be seen as a reset of the world traditional food belts perhaps it can also be described as the changing of wind, water and soil resources (feng-shui-tu, 风水土). The original place to plant rice or corn may no longer be ideal while the others may becomes an ideal place to grow or it may have to migrate elsewhere or move to higher grounds to avoid floods. Are there existing engineering know hows in containing and storing these huge amount of water or to lessen heat? Will dams and deep tunnels able to hold on to this inescapable climate change that future of heavy downfalls of rain is almost certain to arrive sooner? And how about windmill to circulate and cool the thermal heat from the air and the ground? Are these extraordinary infrastructures that engineers and environmentalists should embark upon to design the future and coexist with the changing climates?
It is even more urgent now for a full spectrum of extraordinary talents from climate experts, scientists, engineers, and agricultural experts/producers to willingly collaborate among all coming from the west to the east whether is private or public or individuals to find new ways and sustainable lands to plant, alternate supplies of fertilisers and smarter crops plannings.
The vast knowledge, data and innovations of the last 70 years from bio-chemistry, precision engineering, geography, geology and space & atmospheric will suffice predicting the rising sea level, the flow of jet streams, global regional and local weather formations, wet areas and the hot spots and creating new bio matters to be used for soil, fertilisers, robust seedlings, infrastructures from rails to roads and warehouse to mills. All are potential areas of future scientific bereakthroughs that will benefit humanity and further secured the global food needs. These are our last lifeline of hopes!
In simple words, solving the world food crisis may not be that difficult if we relook at nature itself and how we can borrow nature coupled with advanced sciences to once again rescue our previous decades of ignorance, missteps and mistakes? Fact is all earthly living things need water to survive and grow, that hydrogen and oxygen in combination. Can calculated and precise use of rainwater becoming a natural and powerful fertiliser of the future and by the way, there are abundance of underground water system yet to be discovered all over the world?
History has proven that adaptation is one human strengths in time of adversities. Adapting to climate change is to shift agricultural activities from here to there whether is within one country parameters or across to another continent just to make enough food for the 8 billions people!
There is no more leisure time to waste by waiting for each other to act on it! Where is the combined will, wisdom and generosity from the richer citizens of this world?
Finally, when trading produces, perhaps there is a need to avoid or stop using tariff or quota against one another especially going forward into the unknowns and uncertainties. To summarise, "if there is a will, there will be a way" to solve hunger and food inequalities - One World!
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/09/09/the-world-bank-supports-indonesia-agriculture-sector-to-become-more-resilient-and-inclusive
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/content/images/uploads/Indonesia_Footprint_Review.pdf
" One big threat by Russia-Ukraine created opportunities for others..."
- - anonymous
Indonesia, an ancient Gongwanaland?
The land of 17,500 islands, 300 ethnic groups and 162 local languages, 275 millions people and rich volcanic top soil. It's the world largest archipelagic state, the 3rd longest coastline after Peru and Canada, and the 14th largest country by area, at 1,904,569 square kilometres. On human fertity, it's TFR is well over 2.2, it procreates 5 millions babies annually! For a start, it is a happy problem and then many existential challenges just to feed, to house, to educate, to medicate, to allocate future jobs to all these humans! As for the future of Indonesia, where will these huge resources come from just in time (just in case) for this exploding population?
Agricultural land use in Indonesia was 33.18% as of 2018. It's highest value for the past 57 years while its lowest value was 20.45% in 1984. It has more than sufficient rice to feed its population and the YTY in excess of 2 millions tons are ready for export. The country has vast resources of fishery with over 250 millions hectares for aquafarming and catchments, 23 millions hectares are under conservation and it is the world biggest seaweeds producer. Fish farming is the least polluter of all meats categories, thus the aquaculture business will be the next big thing in the next 25 years and beyond.
The visions of Indonesia is to be the world largest fish, prawn, lobster and MOCAF, an alternate to wheat flour (cassava) producers.
(Ministry of Agriculture of the Republic of Indonesia)
Around 43% of Indonesia's population reside in rural areas and close to 29% of the Indonesian workforce work in the agricultural sector. Primary agricultural production accounted for 13.7% of GDP in 2020. (World Bank)
Indonesia is one of the world's largest producers and exporters of agricultural products, supplying important commodities such as palm oil, natural rubber, cocoa, coffee, rice, and spices to the rest of the world. In the past decades, the agricultural industry is also the largest sector of employment in the country. (Statista)
Of external values, Indonesia has excess capacity of 2 million tons of rice ready for export yearly! For Singapore rice consumptions, this extra 2 million tons of rice means 400kg of rice per capita per year (adults).
The world's largest archipelagic has the land mass and ready agricultural workers to transform into the next world food powerhouse. According to their analytics showed that by converting 16 millions hectares of deforested land and repurpose for food cultivations, it will be sufficient to feed the entire world! (Ministry of Agriculture of the Republic of Indonesia).
Assessing from the entire ecosystem, it is an ambitious and attractive mega project. It will not only solve the global food supplies but also clean and bio renewables energy will be part of this food equation. The problem is foreign investments that are critical in starting these infinite mega projects Will the advanced nations start chipping-in money, deploying exceptional expertises and commence this important game changing initiative with free minded partners from G to G and B to B and trusting one another, nations putting aside self interests and start planting and growing agricultural produces by the mega scales all for the sake of the future of hunger and feeding humanity properly?
Are these aspiring mega projects infinitely possible, or full of obstacles or finitely impossible? Is this the moment now to seriously consider shifting a few "food bowls" to Indonesia?
For any country, one immediate task is to make food available and affordable for the next 10 years and into 2080 because this global food crisis is a highly complex business and the ecosystem itself is a dynamic system and interrelated so much so that scaling to meet demands at any given time will be even harder or impossible to accomplish moreover the entire world is facing the current headwinds of war, of expensive energy supplies and more unstable climate challenges to come.
- - in progress - -
[7:00 pm, 16/11/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan 😊
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