REACH 319 - What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital? (SK)

16 Feb 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:45 am, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

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[9:59 am, 16/02/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Government agencies are looking into using artificial intelligence (AI) to quickly detect and block scam websites through telco networks to protect the public from being scammed.

To complement this, the National Crime Prevention Council will also launch a WhatsApp channel by the third quarter of this year to source information on scam websites from the public.

💬 What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital?

Announcing the new moves on Tuesday (Feb 15), Minister Josephine Teo said in Parliament that one of the Government's upstream measures to combat scams is disrupting the ability of scammers to reach potential victims through communications infrastructure such as telco networks.

Banks will accelerate their shift towards the use of mobile banking apps to authenticate customers, authorise transactions and send alerts to customers as part of a multi-pronged effort to thwart scams, said Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) deputy chairman Lawrence Wong on Tuesday (Feb 15).

Measures that the MAS and retail banks will take to bolster the security of digital banking include:

➡️Review the use of SMS to deliver one-time passwords and exploring new risk mitigation measures if SMS should continue to be used.

➡️Expand the use of biometric technology, in addition to passwords and OTPs, as a means of authentication.

➡️Further strengthen fraud surveillance to identify suspicious and anomalous transactions. 

➡️Develop more versatile algorithms that use artificial intelligence and machine learning to detect suspicious transactions.

➡️Step up the ability to immediately block suspicious transactions and contact their customers to verify their authenticity.

➡️Introduce additional customer confirmation requirements, and not just notifications, for significant changes to customers' accounts or high-risk transactions.

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/government-agencies-exploring-use-of-ai-to-block-scam-websites-faster-jo-teo

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/banks-to-review-use-of-sms-for-otps-further-strengthen-fraud-surveillance-lawrence-wong

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/2m-from-ocbc-scams-recovered-121-local-bank-accounts-frozen-desmond-tan

👉🏻 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/6-ways-to-avoid-being-scammed-in-spore-helplines-and-online-resources

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[10:04 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Scamalert website was set up to inform and remind citizens to be aware of recent scams and their modus operandi.

Perhaps citizens were complacent

[10:09 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Actually why are is the society getting more and more baby minded where everything needs authority to step in? The basis of these are the ethics and mindset of society had gone wayward by this am saying WHERE GOT MONEY DROP from the sky to you? If you received message from bank regarding your account is it not common sense to call the bank to check instead of clicking, technology does not means we lost our basic sense of how things work...

[10:11 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Greed is the main cause

[10:12 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: well said

[10:12 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Greed .... is what is deep rooted in our society ... easy money

[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Ignorance is the 2nd cause

[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Follow by complacent

[10:13 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and that's how syndicate works ... on human greed / complacent (singapore espically cos we been boosting how safe we are in many aspect)

[10:14 am, 16/02/2022] +RH: "common" sense... 

not so common,  after all....  😁

[10:14 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this is further made worst when our law seems to be bendable .... gone are the days where people hear singapore and behave themselves ..... espically when singapore dare to cane an american over vandalism

[10:17 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Gov can continue to make announcement or reminders on being vigilant, but end day lies on the responsibilities of individual.

[10:17 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: from authority and local govt / big establishment force them to stop using +65 .. since by now society had been taught +65 are fake numbers / spam ... cos till date even myself am still getting +65 from places like hospital

[10:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: agree we are responsible for our own action

[10:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: from vaccination to banking to whatever that comes to our phone ya...

[10:19 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Banks in future shouldn't even compensate customers if due diligence had been fulfilled on the bank's side. This will give a wake up call to many.

[10:19 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to be fair BANK MUST UP their system as well like withdrawal / transfer of of certain amount must auto send alert

[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: am sure after this fisco people will not mind to get notify

[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: those who opt out will be responsible for any negative effects

[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: do not give people any option to set

[10:20 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: bank must set this as a must

[10:21 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: say anything above 500 out of their account / credit card will trigger an auto whatsapp and email and sms to the account holder

[10:22 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: is not hard to do it since most bank have notification procedure in place is just some tweaking by their internal developers

[10:22 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: I agree. Although I personally believe  For the seniors banks should allow them to just go old school rather than force them to adopt digitisation or technology... wen banks or agency leave pple with no choices and do not allow this counter transactions or start a charging model.. this group will be the ones to believe these sms or calls to be legit

[10:23 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: wow u brought up a VERY VERY good point ... technology is not for everyone

[10:23 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: going digital as a nation is good but do not forget NOT ALL age can adapt to the change

[10:24 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: you ask a 90 yr old to book a meal or transport via a phone they rather die

[10:25 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: after all face a fact how big can this % of 80 and above people are , once they die you still get a whole nation of IT enable citizen so WHY push our 80s and 90s yr old folks to adopt ?

[10:26 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: Precisely. And if u look at the data of those falling victim to the scams? 1) elderly 2) lower educated 3) the greedy ones

[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: So 1 & 2 must be addressed immediately.. digital is not for evryone.. now even signatures can be forged and hacking is so prevalent how do u mitigate these

[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sometimes modernisation need not 100%, we need to think about that small population in the society this is NOT a company we referring to here is a country (even though we are an island only) and NOT always we have to follow what the society and young people feel.

[10:27 am, 16/02/2022] +Sunshine Pooh: Don't force pple to be vigilant only.. give options to these grp of pple.

[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: actually options in this island will be slowly move develop and mature into recoomended /suggested phase with ""

[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: hahahahaha this is what i observed espically during this covid years ....

[10:29 am, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: To be fair, sometimes, people are careless/tired and accidentally click on a link that they shouldn't.

There are OS vulnerabilities that allow hackers access to a user's phone even without the user doing anything. A famous example is the NSO "zero-click" attack that exploited a vulnerability in iOS 14.4 and 14.6 .The significance of this event/episode was the fact that the exploit was on a newly launched (at that time) Operating System of a very popular phone and was discovered by independent security activist groups.

Of course, not all attacks are as sophisticated, but this highlights the vulnerability inherent in the way we constantly upgrade our smartphones and are increasingly doing our online transactions on these devices. 

If the Govt has not already done so, maybe they need to consider investing/channelling more resources into hiring REAL cybersecurity experts, maybe even ex-hackers/white-hat hackers etc to constantly monitor and search for vulnerabilities in our frequently used devices/Apps. With plans to move towards digitalization/smart-Nation, it means tighter interconnectivity between devices, corporations, Govt agencies etc, which means more weak links within the wider network to exploit.

Continuous education and information campaigns for the general public will probably be necessary as well.

[10:35 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus to keep things simple banks should set by default notification alert once it cross say 500 value transaction, aka even if accidental action by user the 2nd level alert will still inform the user .....

[10:35 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: those who opt out then is your own business .......

[10:36 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to spend money cyber experts i rather this go to our defense hahahaha (ensure we are not subject to real cyber warfare)

[10:39 am, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: I think the decision by Banks to remove all clickable links in SMS messages is a positive first step. Sweeping the internet to identify and then remove fraudulent/phishing sites is also a good idea.

[10:40 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: agree links in sms should not be there is too tempting .....

[10:40 am, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sweeping internet for fake sites of establishment should be by the establishment themselves not the govt ....

[10:45 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

These announced measures will certainly reduce the chances of hackers scamming the people.

But hackers are dynamic and constantly exploring new techniques to breach the cyberdefences.

Just come across a new techniques that hackers are using - transparent reverse proxy that can transparently phish userid, password and multi-authentication through a man-in-the-middle-attack.

Unsuspecting user will see a real website by inputting the login credentials - but the transparent reverse proxy will quietly siphon the login credentials away.

I hope the government has come out with counter measure to prevent such phishing attempt.

[10:45 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: This could end up with legal battles that the consumer can't afford as the banks will always claim they did do proper due diligence.

[10:47 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: Yes, many banks offer this already, and you can set the limits manually. Fortunately I got a notification of a $2.99 spend I hadn't made which alerted me to misuse of my credit card. Already $160 had been spent by the time I was able to stop the card, but it could have been worse.

[10:47 am, 16/02/2022] +BL: Correct - and those people are often the most vulnerable.

[10:51 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/03/proofpoint_mitm_reverse_proxies/

Phishing kits' use of man-in-the-middle reverse proxies is growing, warns Proofpoint.

And it can bypass MFA (Multi-Factor Authentication) - and steal all user credentials through the phishing sites using transparent reverse proxy that look like the real site).

[11:03 am, 16/02/2022] +Dan: Times are bad. Usually during economical downturn, crimes are on the rise. When people turn desperate, they turn to illegal activities as they are seen as "easy money". Here are my thoughts. 

1) harsher laws for scam crimes to deter. 

Penalties for Cheating 

The penalty for cheating under section 415 of the Penal Code is a fine and/or imprisonment for up to 3 years.

Aggravated cheating occurs when a person cheats and thereby dishonestly induces the victim to:

Hand over property to any person;

Partially or completely make, alter or destroy a valuable security* (such as credit cards, stored value cards and automated teller machine (ATM) cards);

Make, alter or destroy a signed and sealed document which may become a valuable security.

The penalty for such aggravated cheating under section 420 of the Penal Code is a fine and imprisonment for up to 10 years. We have to ask are the laws enough to deter them from commiting the crime. 

2) As I said, people spending increase, to adhere to social norms, people will find it hard to change their lifestyle/ adapt to the rising cost. When Mdm Halimah came out to say when cost of chicken rises, eat fish. People took it literally and took it out to bash at the president. But what she meant is we need to adapt to the times, change our lifestyle. There ought to financial planners for people who needs help. To help them to regroup and reshuffle their resources. Many of them, they are embarassed to seek help and continue with their lifestyle. The debts will just continue to snowball. 

3) Is our govt able to extend money lending services to our people? Sengkang MP Jamus Lim had proposed to use a part of money to lend out to people during these trying times. Economic downturn, inflation is gg to have a chain effect.

[11:05 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Reverse transparent proxy are legitimate deployment - usually sit in between clients and servers - to protect, secure and accelerate enterprise applications while accessing web applications eg. Bluecoat ProxySG.

2. But sophisticated hackers are using such techniques to do phishing attempt by deploying such proxy in internet to do phishing attempt via man-in-the-middle-attack.

3. Thus government must mount a counter measure to prevent such scam.

4. Realize the announced measures did not address such sophisticated attack.'

[11:18 am, 16/02/2022] +Rama: 👍

[11:23 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/hackers-have-begun-adapting-to-wider-use-of-multi-factor-authentication/

Hackers have begun adapting to wider use of multi-factor authentication.

[11:32 am, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Note:- not only security devices like bluecoat ProxySG can do transparent reverse proxy but load balancer that load balance servers can similarly do reverse transparent proxy.

2. So such techniques that are widely used in web and apps deployment - have been exploited by hackers to do phishing scam.

3. Such techniques is beyond normal users knowledge to avoid being scam.

4. Will require professional IT cyber security to prevent such attacks.

[11:42 am, 16/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: I don’t agree with greater use of biometric - it means those without these types of phones will find it more difficult to bank. Banks could reduce the number of promotions sent by sms, phone or email and rely more on snail mail + app notifications. In the recent OCBC scams I was surprised to read that their call centre was overwhelmed - banks need to be able to respond to crises so this needs to be reviewed by them. Another aspect which is still weak is credit card fraud originating overseas - even with notifications set up my wife and I have had a number of instances where our cards were fraudulently used while we were sleeping and we only realised it many hours later. Luckily with covid and less travel banks seem to be understanding that most likely we weren’t overseas and so getting the charges removed wasn’t too difficult but I do worry that when travel resumes these types of frauds will increase. My point being that banks should look at all aspects now of fraud not just the recent scams when they are rolling out improvements. Lastly - banks should make it easier for alerts to be set up - for example, many of our banks require each account holder to separately set up alerts - why can’t this be done by any name on the account?

[11:53 am, 16/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: One more thought: some of the bank promotions I receive (balance transfer, loan, etc) require me to click a link to obtain the promotion. If I log directly into the website or use the app the promotion is not there. Banks should make more use of their apps and websites to make promotions directly available to the targeted customers.

[11:54 am, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[11:55 am, 16/02/2022] +Dan: Dear Reach, I missed the previous topic on the recent surge of cases. 2 members of my household were tested positive. During this period, I made several observation when collecting ART test kit which I think can be improved. 

Several vending machines were out of stocked due to the surge. I need to collect art kit from is 5 bus stops away from my home. I have the social responsibility to conduct ART test on myself, but I wonder does everyone have that responsibility. When I was there, there are about 7 households in queue. I'm no.8 Nothing wrong if these people are also HRW like me, but what if... 

1) More vending machines to be placed in each area. At least, every CCs should have it. Afterall, its better for ppl to google for the place, when we know for sure CCs have it. 

2) More routine checks to make sure stock is replenished daily. There is a surge now. More ppl needs it. 

3) I understand there is a queue. But this is diff from queueing for ur cai png or atm withdrawals, there shld be a longer social distance between each family. Notice I used family here. I saw a household of 4 queueing for the art test kits queueing. If 4 of them are there, then who is covid positive? 

Please look into this immediately.

[11:59 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Due to surge in cases, hence it was oos. You could chk availability on website prior to collection

[11:59 am, 16/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Yes agreed more vending machine to be made available

[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So even using multiple authentication is useless - if hackers use transparent reverse proxy.

Government must muster the cyber security experts to tackle this.

[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Would every CC and RC help to reduce running around?

[0:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes

[0:02 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Think gov shld give each person another set of ART kits.

[0:02 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: For this wave

[0:06 pm, 16/02/2022] +Linda: With the surge of cases, the vending machines sure not enough stock.

Will the RC able to help to distribute the ART kits to family members whom have positive cases or on HRWO notices?

[0:06 pm, 16/02/2022] +Linda: +1

[0:24 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Are most of these cyber attacks and scams originating from within Singapore or coming in from overseas?

[0:34 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

No one can tell.

Because hackers can jump host from local to overseas and vice versa - hidden by firewalls, proxies, VPN and many security devices that hide their location and identities.

You will need telecos in all countries to reveal the hackers access path to nail the hackers.

[0:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Vivian: I encountered one scam before. It was from Russia.

[0:54 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sometimes it may seem like from Russia.

But it may not be - depending on the sophistication of the attack.

To do a scam successfully, the hacker must know the local context very well - before Singaporean can be trick successfully.

It could be a local hacker or an expatriate in Singapore, with good knowledge of the local context, doing the scam.

Eg. It will hack a poorly protected client or server in Russia.

Setup a SSH or VPN connection to encrypt and provide a secure tunnel that hide its identity. After hacking, remove all audit trail, security logs and access logs.

Then from the comprised Russia server or client to phish a Singapore user.

When the police check, it will only trace that the hacking come from Russia.

Thus can't tell whether the hackers originate from local or Russia.

[0:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Generally consider the dark Web too

[1:57 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. As the compromised server or client in Russia is clean up of all trail, Russia Telco must cooperate by furnishing;-

a. The internet IP address dish out to the client router gateway, inbound and outbound access, date and time stamp, web proxies info eg. Which websites it access before Singapore police can nail this hacker as coming from Russia or Singapore.

2. Singapore Telco got to do likewise.

3. Hence forensic investigation is a very tedious process that requires specialise IT skills, knowledge and the cooperation of all countries Telco involvement.

[2:07 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Yes. 

I m still using the digital token issued by the bank,  more than 20? 30?  years ago.

I find it easier & more "comforting" to do my banking transactions on my PC,  than use the hp. 

All these PayWhatever apps by banks may be fast & convenient for the new gen, but diehards like us in our 60's wud still prefer the traditional ways. 

I know of many others who dun even own a smartphone,  and some dun even hv hp.

So, when gg digital,  one must bear in mind this percentage of the popn who prefer not to go too digitalised. 

Leave a way for this grp to transact "safely" , yet conveniently.

[2:08 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think you mean physical token.

Digital token is a soft token that is an apps install in the hp.

[2:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Wat abt laws for criminals from overseas? 

How do we deal with those,  since most of the cyber attacks can also originate from ther? 

Is the gov able to apply our laws on them or take them to task on the international arena?

[2:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Yes. 

Physical token,  wher I can press the buttons...  😁

U see,  I can't even tell the diff...  😂

[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Is there any way for customers to block transfer money to overseas?

[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Maybe be default shld be disablsd

[2:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Disabled

[2:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: It's a good point... 

Imposing / updating the laws to deter such crimes. 

Not just working in the digital solutions...

[2:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: To enable must go down branch to enabled. Excluding those who have already had these transactions in the past

[2:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: The next step wud be Enforcement of these measures. 

Who & How... 

Having a law is no use if it can't be enforced.

[2:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +jimmy chew: Hacking thru social engineering is hard to counter. Folks need to be cautious.  My friend is careful but the day he nearly click on the ocbc link was because he was in between handling two crisis. He would have been scam if he didn't just stopped and decided to look again

[2:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +RH: Likewise, 

Sometimes we r all so busy and caught up with our daily lives tt we just neglect to check. 

And tt is when things can go wrong.

[3:09 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: OCBC rolls out ‘kill switch’ to allow customers to freeze all accounts in case of scam

OCBC Bank on Wednesday (Feb 16) rolled out an emergency “kill switch” that will allow customers to freeze their bank accounts if they suspect they are a victim of a scam.

More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ocbc-rolls-out-kill-switch-allow-customers-freeze-all-accounts-case-scam-2501741

[3:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Umar M: Hope all banks follow suit.

[3:16 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sounds nice but (i not read the artcile yet) but if want to turn back to live account after kill switch is turn on ?cumbersome?

[3:21 pm, 16/02/2022] +jimmy chew: It's good but seem like they pushing the responsibility to the consumer? 🤔 By the time I recognized it's too late. Maybe they should preempt or think of a Sure proof Way is Best. One of my friends got her debit card debited for $200, $300, $400 and $400 with a day. She only knew it at 11pm. She called us her friends and we advised her to inform the bank to cancelled. When she checked with the bank they say it's common 🤣

[3:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this kill shoudl be used as 2nd layer

[3:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 1st layer shoudl be from the bank notification and legally there might be red tapes for them to stop an account

[3:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so ideally the system should work this way if $ is move in super large amount or mutli times out, sms shouuld be first off / email fire off / bank app starts to make noise, if user do not response then (is user issue liao)

[3:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but if user see this message / alerts the kill switch is there for use (thus reducing the damage done to account

[3:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cannot everything bank bank or govt mah

[3:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: OCBC rolls out ‘kill switch’ to allow customers to freeze all accounts in case of scam

OCBC Bank on Wednesday (Feb 16) rolled out an emergency “kill switch” that will allow customers to freeze their bank accounts if they suspect they are a victim of a scam.

More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/ocbc-rolls-out-kill-switch-allow-customers-freeze-all-accounts-case-scam-2501741

[4:10 pm, 16/02/2022] +Umar M: Works similarly for cyber security. A kill switch for your servers when you detect hacking etc.

[4:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: yeah there must be multi layer cannot every think govt or bank , user need to be involved also .....

[4:11 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: anyway is our money, bank is just a holding institution .... if customer think everything bank do ok then bank can invest 100% of the money at 0 cost return or compensation .....

[4:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 2 hands to clap thus like mentioned earlier our society mindset abit screwed .....

[4:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: just like how after vaccine ppl think they will not get infected and is super human

[4:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: vaccine is one of the layer safety net , layer 1 safety is still our mask and whatever social measures ....till date after 24 mths we still see idiots not wearing mask covering mouth and nose, finding excuses to mask off and breeching social measures.....

[4:14 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: den blame govt / business everything but themselves ...

[4:15 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sorry not pro govt or any entities jutst feel that Singapore society STOP BEING influence by external news / media/ culture / mindset, we have to reclaim and steadfast our identity .... we die you think people will jolly open their arms and help you ... NOOOOOOOOO

[4:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Scam victims in S'pore lost $633.3 million in 2021

Police said at least 90 per cent of scams in Singapore originate from overseas, and described the scammers as syndicated, well-resourced and technologically sophisticated.

More: https://str.sg/wWtQ

[4:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: back to the topic of scam, not sure if is good but can the market bring in non smart phone for our oldies folks

[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: they just want to make call while on the move

[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: that might save them from being scam also cos is not smart enuff for ppl to heck the phone hahaha

[4:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: china is selling alot of these phones for oldies

[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: just plain call in and out

[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: fyi they even have phone for kids to prevent phone addiction to games

[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cal video call also but no smart services hahahaa

[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Nokia 6310 works this way!?

[4:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: i think so ...

[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Believe we have it here

[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but compatible with our so call 4plus and 5g is another think remember how telco chase people to throw and upgrade to 4g

[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes

[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: stating older phoen will not be supported

[4:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: see not all people like technology even for some 60 yr old folks they just want a simple phone call in and out

[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes

[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: they dun bother about taking picture also

[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so while we move into a tech age, let's not forget about the sentiments of the society ...keyword choice

[4:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: not everything is about tech -> leading to bigger pay package for ceo and their own gang

[4:38 pm, 16/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not only smartphone can get hack.

If use laptop will also get hack.

As long as one used internet banking - if used incorrectly will get hack.

[4:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus we need multi layers

[4:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: bank and user corporate

[4:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: everything cannot be fool proof or put on silver tray and present to citizens .. like that we are like mentally handicap cannot think which i think the society is now , espically people who do not group up here they think the streets and social system are path with gold and all laid nicely for people to consume without any error or obstacle

[4:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[5:43 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Disabling recurring payments is plain daft. Giro bill payment all stopped. Sounds like chaos.

[5:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Latest Announcements

Singapore to simplify Covid-19 rules for gatherings, travel and workplaces, paving way for future easing

👉 https://str.sg/wWvk 

Healthcare and eldercare sectors must continue with rostered routine testing for Covid-19

👉 https://str.sg/wWvZ 

Entry approval measures for fully vaccinated long-term pass holders to be removed from Feb 21

👉 https://str.sg/wWvo 

More Covid-19 Omicron patients can self-isolate at home without seeing a doctor

👉 https://str.sg/wWv3 

S'pore-Malaysia land VTL traveller quota to be reinstated from Feb 22

👉 https://str.sg/wWvJ 

Close contacts of confirmed Covid-19 cases to have shorter monitoring period as HRW is replaced

👉 https://str.sg/wWvU

VTLs for Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, Philippines and all of Thailand to start soon; on-arrival PCR tests replaced with ART from Feb 22

👉 https://str.sg/wWv5

Fully vaccinated nursing home residents with no or mild symptoms allowed to recover on-site

👉 https://str.sg/wWvT

No plans to require second booster shot in Singapore: Kenneth Mak

👉 https://str.sg/wWvq

[5:57 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Close contacts of Covid-19 cases to have shorter monitoring period of 5 days

Close contacts of confirmed Omicron cases will no longer receive a health risk warning (HRW) from Friday (Feb 18) and their self-monitoring period will be cut to five days instead of seven, said the Ministry of Health on Wednesday.

More: https://str.sg/wWvU

[5:58 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: 👍

[6:03 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph Yap: 💬 What are your views on the Government's prevention measures to bolster the security of digital banking? How can we be more vigilant against scams, as more of our activities go digital?

I strongly believe the Government’s preventive measures to bolster security of digital banking is critical and timely to guard the general public’s confidence in the adoption of digital banking, especially among the elderly. 

We can be more vigilant against scams by having a centralised website (an example is Mask go Where gov.sg website used in mask distribution campaign) to educate and warn general public on the on-going and trending scam being identified by the Singapore Police Force.

[6:12 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: It's a step forward, but the 5 person limit is still too restrictive at restaurant or outdoor social gatherings. If a family of 5 can have 5 people to their house, let's allow those same 10 people to go to a restaurant together. Not everyone has a big house to socialise in.

[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Was hoping for eight

[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Looking forward to no mask required in open spaces, such as parks, beach, nature reserve.

[6:13 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Yes 8 at least - 5 is such an awkward number.

[6:15 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: More VTL is also good. Assume Gov is working hard to widen this rapidly. Although I notice the VTL flights are considerably more expensive from some locations, than the non-VTL (that was a few weeks ago, might have changed)

[6:17 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-to-simplify-covid-19-rules-for-gatherings-travel-and-workplaces-paving-way-for-future-easing - funny that they use a picture with no one wearing masks.... that'

[6:17 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: that is how it should be in this situation

[6:19 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: For those of us without Gardens, or private outdoor space, we have had 2 years of wearing a mask outside, often with no one around. I take the dog out at night and walk an empty street having to wear a mask... feels ridiculous.

[6:22 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Singapore to allow quarantine-free travel to fully vaccinated visitors from Batam and Bintan

Fully vaccinated travellers from Batam and Bintan in Indonesia will be allowed to enter Singapore from Feb 25 without quarantine, the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) announced on Wednesday (Feb 16).

https://str.sg/wWve

[6:24 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Hopefully, before the next GE,we can look back and see how we survived this pandemic.

[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Good news. Hope that land links can be restored for non essential travels to Malaysia too.

[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: 👍👍

[6:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes

[6:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Malaysia is one of our biggest trade partners and many Singaporeans and Malaysians have homes and businesses in Johor.

[6:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: For day trips, I guess the same test result can be used for arrival and departure...?

[6:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Caleb: Gov got 2 years to plan on VTL travel by car via causeway. 

But seems like that did not take the past 2 year to plan.

[6:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Yes

[6:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: Honestly is there is a point to keep.passenger cars out of the causeway when the covid situation in Johor and Singapore is almost the same or might be even better than Singapore? 😅

[6:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Sherie: just do on arrival pcr tests and the 5 days art test like the rest of the VTLs

[6:42 pm, 16/02/2022] +Laurent: In 2018, 6K people died from influenza and Pneumonia. This works out to be about 17 people dead each day. There wasn't a "pandemic" and certainly no discrimination or VDS or incessant promotion of vaccination.

With the widespread fear and many people not questioning the safety of the "vaccine" and willfully ignoring multiple red flags, this shows how easily public opinion can be formed and directed by what the govt and mass media promotes. 

This brings about the question if the public is being fed facts or propaganda. 

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/singapore-influenza-pneumonia

No comments needed, just another proof of the machiavellian use of Covid by the governments, including in Singapore.

This is how trust in those who govern us is lost forever...

[6:51 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We’d love to hear more from you!

As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.

Megan 😊

[6:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +Smiley face: "He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions." 

- -  Confucius

[6:55 pm, 16/02/2022] +Smiley face: 16 February, 2022

To: Distinguished MTF and All Honorable Members

"What A Good Feeling...! " 

Yes, we are ready!  Singapore will once again stand on par as a covid 'SMART & MATURED' nation together with the handful of Europeans countries in descaling these covid medical and social mandates of the past months. In geo perspective, importantly, Singapore will be the FIRST in Asia to emerge and to engage that is, we are fully OPEN for business 24/7!

MAJULAH SINGAPURA!

"... Courage is a decision.”

- - Winston Churchill

[6:56 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Cheers!

[7:04 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: There has been 5.84 MILLION deaths from CV19 reported globally since 2019.

Approx. 500k people die globally every year from influenza related causes. ie. Estimated deaths globally since end-2019 till now would be less than 1 MIO .. WITHOUT any interventions/restrictions/precautionary measures. 

Singapore has a very low number of deaths because of the INTERVENTIONS/SAFETY MEASURES we had in place.

[7:05 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: We have done well

[7:26 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: Singapore is moving confidently towards endemic with our population mostly fully vaccinated AND our healthcare/hospitals ready to provide adequate support to our patients. 

Singapore is opening up travel confidently while most other countries still have strict travel restrictions/quarantine requirements in place. Some, simply do not have the financial and/or political capital to enact those restrictions to the detriment of their own people. 

So, for a foreigner like you, to come here, enjoy the security and FREEDOM that Singapore so generously accord you, and then have you criticize our ELECTED Govt for doing what is necessary (at the expense of popularity) to protect us, is not acceptable! 

Go ahead and fk your French Govt all you want, i don’t care! But do not lump us in with your corrupt, impotent and ineffective Govt in Europe!

[7:27 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Go back to where you came from!

[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: WAHHH SI BEH FIERCE ..but if it is something on foreign influence yes i agree, any visitor who is not happy about how the govt is protecting its citizen should just pack and go ....

[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this is not a wonderland, we took years to built and hold fort where we were

[7:28 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Imported second class citizen crap. Occupying temporarily here.

[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: But but that article is abit right in certain context ------->>>""With the widespread fear and many people not questioning the safety of the "vaccine" and willfully ignoring multiple red flags, this shows how easily public opinion can be formed and directed by what the govt and mass media promotes. ""

[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: I spot an antivaxxor

[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Likewise

[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: this vaccine till date no one knows what ill effects it had yet....

[7:29 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: True

[7:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and this is a global thinggy that all govt just jump on the bandwagon , to the extend that WHO infact calls for country to stop 3rd shot but government of certain countries are not heeding the advise and went ahead with 4th shot

[7:30 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[7:31 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: ask urself are you willing to keep jabbing for say the next 6mths or less , even if you dare do you bear your off springs to do it? This is a question ? for many many of us deep deep deep deep down inside

[7:32 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: The thought has crossed mind!

[7:33 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: This is espically when the vaccine was push as a prevention of the sickness where instead it SHOULD be promoted as a solution to lessen your infection seriousness ... and if that was kick started off maybe globally we were be in a better position because every vaccinated human will still take precaution

[7:33 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: To stop 3rd shot so that there will be supply for 3rd world countries. Get your facts right

[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: many western countries people i think are pissed because like many here they thought with the God gifted vaccine they will be PREVENTED from the virus which is not true, Isreal had shown 4th shot does still continue to have people infected

[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus to certain aspect Laurent does have some valid concerns which everyone of us have and old as well

[7:34 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Correct

[7:35 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but of cos if the artcile is to derail what our country is doing for the living beings here than yes is a BIG F word.. like how we do not respectfully comment on how other countries are handling their control state of things ya

[7:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Not our style!

[7:36 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: every body know the freaking reason why WHO call for 3rd sjab to be stop is publish globally no need for such I AM STUPID attitude dude!

[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: Everybody knows? You know because of what fact? Please list it here and don't distort what WHO said to fit your agenda

[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: to those who think jo is rude well i think as any loving country citizen we should stand up and be stead fast to our believes...... as ONE Nation and people

[7:37 pm, 16/02/2022] +Jun: You sound like one of the Smurfs from healing the divide

[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus at this junction i will say laurent does have certain aspect which seems valid as well

[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: 😦😯😧😂😅🤣

[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: From my family’s experience of catching Covid 19 and the differing symptoms to members of different age and vaccination status, I would follow the medical directive and take the booster as advised. 

The current vaccine is not perfect. But with 10.4 BILLION doses administered in 184 countries, I think if it were unsafe, we would have already known about it. 

We can only hope to defeat this current pandemic so scientists can focus next on improving the vaccine. It will take time, experience and maybe even luck, to discover/achieve the next breakthrough in vaccine/therapeutics.

[7:38 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Y

[7:39 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: will not argue on who is right or wrong because we are not the medical field but questions of such mentioned will still be on our mind and deep inside us or society, this cannot be deny

[7:40 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but one thing for sure like mentioned vaccine is to lessen the effects of the sickness not to prevent ...

[7:45 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[7:46 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: If i am not wrong.. i think i read somewhere or someone’s commentary on this.. which kind of agree with. is that the WHO is calling for a halt on the 4th shot because there are still many countries that do not have access to even the first shot. So affluent Nations are hogging the production lines, and maybe this demand is also keeping the prices up and beyond the reach of these poorer Nations. something like that .. True or not, I am not sure. But it kind of makes sense to me. 

And i think to be fair, SG G/MOH is never the first mover in this area. They have been waiting and watching and studyjng Israel and UK’s data before deciding whether or not to take the risk to proceed. 

Between choosing to believe in our G/MOH and some article written by an unknown author with dubious credentials, my choice is clear.

[7:47 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: it started with the 3rd shot and it was all over the news globally which from the start i did mentioned why are govt not supporting this notion ....

[7:48 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: quote -> "Between choosing to believe in our G/MOH and some article written by an unknown author with dubious credentials, my choice is clear." thus mentioned if the motive is to derail of cos your big F was right

[7:49 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: I can understand why the people in Europe and the US don’t trust their Govt. But .. don’t project those feelings unto our country/Govt.. the Govt that WE collectively elected. Insulting our Govt is insulting the people who voted and placed trust in SG GOVT ie. YOU and I.

[7:50 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: also at the same time the article address concerns which had all this while in question in not only here but global society also ... key word concerns not repel / not go against / not reject in any o fthe mentioned stated in my reply. thus i do not understand why some a.h decided to bark like dogs hahahaha .. this is a discussion board and if some a.h like to be right jolly well start up a personnel board ya

[7:51 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: read from both sides lor then dun feel so bad, he might subtly try to influence but too bad we still have people who do not embrace such approach

[7:52 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cos we sure not want to be a follower at the expense of our society and lives ....

[7:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[7:54 pm, 16/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: The point of this forum is to hear people's views, including @Laurent and not to attack them.

[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +Joseph: Yes agree. I am not insisting I am correct while others who disagree with me must be wrong. I am just sharing, a factual experience about how the vaccine had worked for us in reducing the symptoms.

I came across posts/comments by a lot of anti-vaxxers in other countries who shared how they caught CV19, took Ivermectin and recovered in 4 days… i am sure they are not lying… but then again, they probably never thought that it was not the Ivermectin that helped them, but their own immune system successfully overcoming the infection. The symptoms they described - obviously more severe and quite like my unvaxxed U12 family member and friends who hesitated to take the booster and then caught CV recently. What is worrying is that the misinformation they were fed pr…

[7:59 pm, 16/02/2022] +BL: Once again we see awful comments directed at a participant for sharing a view about the topic being discussed.

[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +~N: Please strengthen PDPA regulations as well.

[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

[8:00 pm, 16/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and i too agree with you on your point also not in any way saying you except for the other A.H. who thinks he is almighty correct .. duhhh

======

REACH 318 - How concerned are you about the surge in cases? Has this affected you or your loved ones' willingness to get the booster shot? What are your thoughts on the usage of Paxlovid to treat COVID-19 locally? (SK)

14 Feb 2022 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:51 am, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[9:59 am, 14/02/2022] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Despite the recent surge in COVID-19 cases, the majority of those infected display mild to no symptoms, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on 12 Feb (Sat). 

He also said the recent surge is not unexpected, and while many are seeing their GPs for COVID-19, only about three out of 1000 confirmed cases are seriously ill. 

💬 How concerned are you about the surge in cases? Has this affected you or your loved ones' willingness to get the booster shot? What are your thoughts on the usage of Paxlovid to treat COVID-19 locally?

Amid the rise in cases, more are reporting to vaccination centres for their booster jabs, while some 8,000 previously unvaccinated workers have also begun their primary vaccination regimes within the past month. From 14 Feb (Mon), those aged 18 and above will have to take a booster shot within 270 days of completing their primary vaccination regime to retain their fully vaccinated status.

Mr Ong also announced via a Facebook post that the first batch of Pfizer's antiviral oral pill, Paxlovid, arrived in Singapore this week. The drug is the first oral anti-viral medicine that has been approved by the Health Sciences Authority (HSA) for the treatment of COVID-19 here, and will be prescribed and prioritised for those at higher risk of severe infection.

Separately, when asked if there will be changes to current COVID-19 rules, Mr Ong said the multi-ministry task force will be making an announcement soon.

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wW75

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wW7E

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wW8s

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wW7C

👉🏻 https://str.sg/wW6k

-------

[10:06 am, 14/02/2022] +JC: Not concerned at all, surge is to be expected as Minister Ong said. As long as those with mild/manageable infections don't seek to be hospitalized unnecessarily, I think we should be able to ride this wave quite well, especially with the availability of Paxlovid, as well as the 2+ years experience in managing COVID cases. 

Please DO NOT tighten measures any further, this is the best opportunity now to move safely and steadily into the endemic phase of the disease with the population gaining herd immunity through mild infection and vaccination.

[10:08 am, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Not exactly concern. Doesn't affect my decision to take booster.

[10:10 am, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: If MOH has announced that home recovery will be the default method, don't see why we need to further tighten any more policies. In fact we should be relaxing more on the policies.

[10:10 am, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Positive COVID-19 is probably just like a common flu

[10:18 am, 14/02/2022] +65 9847 9001: Agree 🙏

[11:18 am, 14/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: Not concerned at all about surge in cases - all my friends who have caught omicron here and abroad (at least 15 friends in last 2 months, mostly 50-60yrs old) have had very mild symptoms (their children as well even those too young to be vaccinated). We had our booster in October, hope we don’t have to have a fourth shot as my post booster reaction was not good (fever and nausea for 4 days). I have friends in Singapore who do not want boosters because of concerns over adverse reactions and long term consequences of mRNA though they will eventually take them to avoid losing the vax status.Really think the govt should take the UK approach and loosen rules including mask wearing especially outdoors now that covid seems mostly to be very mild. Re Paxlovid and other treatments I’m in favour of these being approved. One question: when will Novavax be approved and what about Astrazeneca? We need more non mRNA choices, not just Sinovac.

[11:20 am, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/antibodies-more-potent-after-third-covid-19-jab-or-after-vaccinated-person-gets-infected-study

Antibodies more potent after third Covid-19 jab, or after vaccinated person gets infected: Study.

Super Human immunity acquired.

Endemic become possible.

[11:20 am, 14/02/2022] +Caleb: +1; when will Novavax be approved

[11:21 am, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Risk of new heart problems jumps after COVID-19 infection for those unvaccinated.

mRNA vaccine prevent heart problems from covid.

Hence the misconception of natural immunity by infected with covid is very dangerous.

Vaccination prevent future heart problems.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/risk-new-heart-problems-jumps-after-covid-19-mrna-shot-side-effects-no-different-cancer-patients-2489196

[11:22 am, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/why-are-children-hit-harder-by-the-omicron-variant

Why are children hit harder by the Omicron variant of Covid-19?

[11:39 am, 14/02/2022] +Guillermo Cabeza: good news just in

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/novavax-nuvaxovid-covid-19-vaccine-interim-authorisation-singapore-hsa-2496476

[11:47 am, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: agree we are boudn to follow what the EU are doing ... also is there a define direction for mrna to mixed with non mrna as booster

[11:47 am, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: seems the other way is allow while mrnax2 + non mrna there is no official word

[11:55 am, 14/02/2022] +Neeyor: I hope Novavax can sort out its manufacturing issues which has plagued it from the very start. I’m waiting to see if the new partnership with SK in Korea will bump up its capacity. They no longer much  have US govt support.

[11:55 am, 14/02/2022] +Neeyor: But it’s a really good vaccine- the data is promising

[0:05 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Novavax Covid-19 vaccine approved for those aged 18 and above in Singapore

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWbV

New Covid-19 treatment facility for children, elderly to help hospitals manage amid Omicron wave

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWb2

[0:12 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Many medical study reveals that 3 vaccination jabs is the best solution to date in protecting population against covid and its various strains.

2. Accordingly all my family members have gotten the 3 doses and have confidently live our daily lives while observing safe distancing measures.

3. As for the Paxlovid treatment, hopefully no one have to take it unless absolutely necessary if prescribed by doctor.

[0:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: The surge on cases perhaps suggests we need to rethink the restrictions in place. Controversial I know. If cases are spreading but people are not getting ill,  do we need such limitations on social contact? If cases are widespread, but very few are sick, can we take a new approach and actually live with covid?

[0:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I worry for the kids at school who have not seen their friends faces in 2 years , who cannot talk to each other, cannot play. The mental damage is extraordinary.

[0:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: We risk terribly teenage depression being sewn, suicide rates increasing and limited social expression.

[0:16 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Why is there no support for mental care in the schools? The kids sit all day in their masks, unable to interact, to talk to each other, to communicate with their smiles and laughter.

[0:16 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: What help is there for them?

[0:17 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Many parents are so paranoid about covid, they don't let's their kids out to play. Lots of kids just sit at home playing video games. What kind of childhood is that?

[0:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: 67 per 100,000 population under 12 infected. Its a tiny amount.

[0:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: 56 under 12s hospitalised, none serious.

[0:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I think we are overreacting having such restrictions on young kids and the damage from social isolation is far worse.

[0:22 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Provided the mild or serious don't get long covid.

[0:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Meanwhile thousands suffer from depression.

[0:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: These stats don't appear to children

[0:23 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is life long and deadly if the children didn't get Vaccination.

[0:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Please don't mislead by conflating two different arguments.

[0:24 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Young and old

[0:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: The stats are not separated though

[0:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I support vaccination, when the kids are vaccinated will their restrictions be lifted.

[0:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Which school or children you talking about? Other than the few times temporary  HBL were imposed, students have been going to school. Even CCAs have resumed.

[0:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: that's an incorrect conclusion. there are no children included as this is using data from the US military.

[0:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Yes, all the numbers are grouped together, it might only apply to 0.01% of infected kids. We don't know.

[0:26 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: I would recommend that readers please go to the source paper to read for themselves rather than to take Danny's commentary as it is not exactly accurate.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01689-3

[0:26 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well many parents are not taking the risk - and rightfully so - unless their children are vaccinated.

Not bare body against viruses.

[0:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: They have to wear masks all day unless at PE, or while eating during which time they cannot talk to each other.

[0:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Don’t spread misinformation please… quite obvious you have no school going kids. There are many parents and grandparents here.

[0:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: I support too. Since the plan for population to be vaccinated, those vaccinated can have social gathering for up to 8 or 10.

[0:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Those non vaccinated should still be restricted

[0:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: My child is 10 and goes to school everyday.

[0:28 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 👍

[0:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: You know nothing about me and you are spreading misinformation.

[0:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: In this study, vaccination status had been removed as it could be a confounding factor in the analysis. 

"Because some COVID-19 vaccines might be associated with a very rare risk of myocarditis or pericarditis, and to eliminate any putative contribution of potential vaccine exposure to the outcomes of myocarditis and pericarditis in this study, we conducted two analyses. First, we censored cohort participants at the time of receiving the first dose of any COVID-19 vaccine. Second, we adjusted for vaccination as a time-varying covariate."

[0:29 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: Report from CNA news.

Credible source.

[0:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Dude read from the source document. you are spreading misinformation.

[0:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Plus the conclusions you are making isn't even what is reported in CNA.

[0:30 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh yah, then pull CNA to task if you think CNA is spreading fake news.

[0:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: you just extrapolated to your own conclusions because of your own bias. And all that without actually examining the actual study itself.

[0:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear contributors, let's be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion :)

[0:36 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: which is what adults need to do as well at the workplace. The children in my household have no issues with that. Neither have there been any incidents of their friends “losing it”. The question is, where are YOU getting your “information” from?

[0:37 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Parents will have to weigh their children risk - whether they want to get their children vaccinated.

Or risk their children get infected, and inherit long covid down their later life.

Which can be long term heart problem that threaten their lives.

[0:40 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore children is our treasure resources.

Singapore will need to protect our limited manpower resources - be it our future manpower talents for workforce, NS man.

We cannot risk their long term health and the government will need to take care of their well being and safety.

[0:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +Anthony: Government or MOH  mandate 3 Jab for Booster should only applied for seniors ,

Doesn't need to to be mandate fore everyone to go for Booster

[0:43 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: To recap, here are some facts from this study:

- Study cohort is built from US military veterans database, no children are involved. i.e. it is inconclusive whether these results would apply to children as well.

- The authors of the study tried to remove vaccination status from their analysis as it could be a confounding variable. As such, the study DOES NOT claim that vaccination will lower your risk of longer term CV outcome. It may be a possibility but it is not clear from the data in this study.

- The results of this study clearly shows that COVID infection puts individuals at higher risk of cardiovascular events (e.g. stroke, heart attack, other less serious CV events, etc.) than those who are not infected. This is consistent with the theory that COVID is a vascular disease i.e. a virus that damages our bloodstreams. 

- Study shows that risk is elevated even for those who only have mild or no symptoms of COVID.

- Study shows that risk is correlated with severity of COVID. i.e. if you happen to have more severe COVID symptoms, the risk of CV outcome is higher.

- Study covers COVID infection from older variants of COVID and NOT omicron. See study limitations: " Finally, as the pandemic, with all its dynamic features, continues to progress, as the virus continues to mutate and as new variants emerge, as treatment strategies of acute and post-acute COVID-19 evolve and as vaccine uptake improves, it is possible that the epidemiology of cardiovascular manifestations in COVID-19 might also change over time"

Please note that vaccines DOES NOT protect you from infection - it protects us from severe diseases and hospitalization. Everyone of us are likely to get COVID at some point in time due to endemic status so this study is not meant to scare us but to make sure we are vigilant, understand the risk and look out for it. 

For individuals who are already at low risk of CV outcome, while the CV risk post COVID infection is higher, it is elevated from a low base - so it is still not something to worry too much about, just need to be aware. For individuals who have CV problems e.g. diabetes, heart attack/stroke history, PLEASE get vaccinated and watch out for the symptoms even if you have recovered from COVID so that if anything happens, you can get medical treatment in time.

[0:44 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Underlining words don't mean you understood the facts. Please do at least read the study before you jump to your own conclusions.

[0:45 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And the good news is, vaccination centre are packed with parents bringing their children to vaccinate.

And many adults are getting their booster.

That's why Singapore are in a good stead to get our population ready for endemic - once vaccination for children, adults, elderly as well as booster are administered for those who are eligible.

[0:49 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00342-4/fulltext

Long covid for children.

[0:49 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🤦‍♂️

[0:51 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00334-w 

Long covid for children.

[0:54 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Parents out there.

Children are not super man - and think that children can fare better than adults.

Children can succumb to long covid - and bear long term permanent health damage.

Parents should get their children vaccinated to protect them.

Don't play with their life.

[1:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: By the way, even before the pandemic - and I am talking about more than 10yrs ago - there are already Child psychologists and counsellors stationed at MOE primary schools a few days a week to take care of students' mental health and address behavioral issues. So, if you don't know, don't anyhow say can?  😉

[1:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: You let the parents of those kids worry for themselves. If you have kids, and you are not worried, then go ahead and do what you want with them as long as you don't break the law. THEY are your responsibility. Other people's kids, they are responsible for them. End of the day, how you nurture/guide/teach them will result in the kind of young adults the parents/grandparents will live with.. and the ones you may have to rely on on in your old age.

[1:06 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Tons of report of children getting long covid.

Unless someone want to dispute all these reports are non credible.

[1:07 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Again.. what restrictions are you talking about? Do "your kids" live in a bubble on their own with no interaction with Grandparents/older folks/people who may be medically vulnerable? What about their friends? The kids may be fine, what about people they may come in contact with? How is it that after 2 years, there are still people who don't understand that this is not just about themselves?

[1:10 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: You know any of these thousands whom you claim are suffering from depression due to CV19 restrictions? Or.. you just know? Or your friend told you? 😂

[1:11 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not only UK study reveals ten of thousands of children get long covid.

US Yale medical center also reveals children in US get long covid especially the unvaccinated.

So are these reports credible or non credible?

[1:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: And he/she has depression? If your kid is also going to school everyday, then why all that rubbish about kids not seeing their friends etc etc etc 🤷‍♂️

[1:16 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Even Canada study reveals children get long covid.

So unless someone feels that US, UK, Canada study are fake news.

Parents choose to believe all these news or someone who profess that he is more expert than all these medical reports.

[1:19 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I just found out that you have a 10yo kid who goes to school everyday .. and yet you seem to be claiming that kids are suffering mentally because they can't see their friends, cannot play with their friends etc etc  ... In fact a lot of kids are hoping to go back to HBL .. so they do not need to wake up so early in the morning .. they interact with their friends even more on Zoom, via multi-player online games .. the children in my household, together with their friends, even came up with creative ways to play offline games with their friends using Zoom. 

Yes, I know little about you... the only impression anyone forms of you, is from what you say (or don't say) here. Anyway, I am not interested in who you are 😂  nothing against you ... just disagree with some of the things you say.

[1:29 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Washington medical reports.

Children can face long term heart problem, brain fog --- there goes our precious future manpower resources - if parents foolishly believe their children are super man and can be unvaccinated - while relying on infection for immunity.

[1:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: In my opinion, the only certainty, is that no one is certain. That is the message I get from various reports/studies on Long-CV. 

Unfortunately, no one is able to conclusively determine, if, who, how someone is afflicted with Long CV. 

The trouble with such studies is that is is narrowly focused and does not take into consideration other factors that may be equally important and affects our decision making eg. mental health impact, underlying health condition, living conditions etc.

End of the day, we all need to make our own risk assessment and decide holistically - considering our own circumstances/convenience, ability etc - which risk we want to assume. 

No one is dismissing the threat of Long Covid. The question is what cost are we willing to pay, to avoid this possibility. No one size fits all answer and everyone needs to decide for themselves.

[1:36 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Can .. and Will .. 

Long CV without vax: Can

Recover without Long CV even when unvaxxed: also Can

Vax reduce CV symptoms: mostly Will

Kids recover even without Vax: mostly Will as well

I am not anti-vax.. but forcing the issue with biased/weak evidence is counter-productive. Gives the anti-vax camp more ammunition.

[1:36 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes agree.

No one is certain what this covid can cause.

But on the safe side, protect our children like protecting our adults.

Parents have to make the judgement call.

Our government position is very clear - get everyone vaccinated including children. Same position as from the medical community.

I choose to believe the government and the medical experts.

[1:36 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: +1

[1:40 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Dude. Please just read that one study that you posted that started this thread in the first place to better understand what the study did or did not say, and why I say u r over extrapolating the results. You will learn more than your constant googling and 5 mins speed read.

[1:40 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And there is only one chance.

Let the children get infected and pray hard that they won't get long covid or wait for more evidence of study of long covid.

Or get the children vaccinated, to give them protection.

As parents I and many families have chosen vaccination.

[1:41 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I read alot more than you think.

[1:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: that's the problem. too much glancing headlines, too little in-depth details.

[1:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: if you truly understand that study, you would not have made those claims that you've made earlier.

[1:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: because it's wrong

[1:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Till date no one can confirmed the words used usually are covid infected.... For long covid effects... So does it cover serious only? Or include mild and touch and go cases

[1:42 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahaha.

The subsequent article prove that you are shallower.

[1:43 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Mild and serious also get long covid.

[1:44 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Thanks for the cmf cos many are thinking 3njabs plus covid positive dun get the long covid

[1:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🤷‍♂️ ignorance is bliss I suppose

[1:45 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's you.

[1:47 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If you got 3 jabs less likely to get long covid.

Unvaccinated are the highest risk of long covid.

[1:49 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I think the trouble is, there is no study that conclusively shows that vaxxed children WILL definitely not develop Long CV, just as studies (indirectly) have showed that NOT ALL unvaxxed children will develop Long CV.

[1:50 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: In short as long as covided Chances of long Covid is there cos it exceed the 0%

[1:50 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Just stop talking to me, about me or my family. Ok, back off. Have your opinions about the world, fine. But don't mention me or my family again.

[1:51 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: ...I don't think he's trying to understand.... 😅

[1:51 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Few current studies show that vaccination has reduced the chance of long covid.

[1:51 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: We seem to have gone off line!

[1:54 pm, 14/02/2022] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Study prove vaccination has reduced chance of long covid.

[1:55 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I think it is getting more difficult to convince people that the vaccine PREVENTS infection because what we are actually seeing now, is quite the opposite - that the CONFIDENCE from being vaxxed, is actually leading to complacency and hence, a higher rate of infection amongst vaxxed communities. 

What is true however, is that being vaxxed reduces CV symptoms.

Use the right arguments/data. The anti-vaxxers are having a field day pointing out that our initial belief that the vax can reduce infection rates is misguided and extrapolating that to all our other claims/beliefs including true ones like how vax reduces incidence of severe symptoms, I should also acknowledge as fact that in a lot of cases, unvaxxed kids actually recover quickly, fully and without signs of Long CV... at least with the variants that have surfaced so far.

[1:58 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Or else what? 😱🙄  Are you threatening me?? 😱😨  Let me go change my soiled adult daipers ... NOT 😑

[1:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: if can't take the heat, get the f* out of the kitchen. Want to talk rubbish then be ready to be called out!

[2:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: We are supposed to have civilised,  matured and adult conversation! Let's agree to disagree!?

[2:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Exactly right. 

When vax or anti vax, everyone's just trying to make the best decision for themselves n their families. All good intentions.

[2:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: +1 yes relax guys

[2:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: It's just talk

[2:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Exactly!

[2:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Exactly. Thats why I don;t around telling people to shut up or get lost or leave me alone, or threaten someone etc etc just because someone disagrees with what I say.

[2:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♂️😔😟

[2:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I am relaxed and just talking...  I am not the one screaming at someone else / threatening someone else/ Yes I agree. Grow up and have adult conversations.

[2:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Anyway, I think it's important to clarify wrong ideas from all sides. That's why I reacted to Danny's wrong conclusions from the CNA article. So we can all understand the situation better and make the right decisions.

[2:04 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I am telling you to stop talking about me. You have regularly insulted me personally. Don't hide behind 'different opinions' when you say I 'talk rubbish' or 'obviously an under-graduate' or 'don't have kids' or many of the other assumptions you make about me and other people on here.

[2:04 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Some people are not cut out to be politicians!

[2:04 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: @Joseph you seem incapable of making your point without personal attacks.

[2:07 pm, 14/02/2022] +Smiley face: "comparing, complaining and conclusions... The first two are most comprehensible..."

- - anonymous

"远水救不了近火"

[2:08 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: Agree w this

[2:08 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors, let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion. 😊

[2:09 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I am not insulting you. I merely gave my opinion on why I disagree with some of what you say. And I am not making sweeping statements and/or dismissing your comments. I always try to substantiate and explain why I disagree and am open to you or anyone disagreeing and telling me otherwise.

Where I am wrong, like whenm I wrongly assumed that you have no kids, I am ready to acknowledge that I made the wrong assumption.

So stop being childish and using arguments/threats like "don't talk about my mother/father/family/ancestors" etc etc . That is what playground hooligans do. Strawman arguments to justify their bullying and anger,.

[2:09 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 😦😮😯🤦‍♀️🤷‍♂️😔😟😞

[2:11 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: I thought u assumed his kid had depression...

[2:11 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear contributors, let’s be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion. 😊

Please be reminded to keep to today’s topic.

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 😃

[2:11 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Exactly!

[2:12 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: I think if paxlovid is only administered to those who need it and eligible then it would be good..

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-pfizer-paxlovid-faq-2479076

[2:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: But if the drug is administered to just anybody who got covid then it would be too much

[2:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so in short i guess the media should make it darn clear , get vaccinated to reduce the seriousness when infected with Covid NOT TO prevent one from having covid ...and long covid is still a possibility despite vaccinated + infected

[2:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: that is the plain fact and it should mentally print in everyone mind

[2:15 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: also media should stop advertising how and what good is certain brands of vaccination cos regardless of the brand once u got it (even when vaccinated) u got it ..... issue is how serious is the infection in one's body

[2:16 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Yes sir. +1

[2:17 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: after 2 years if the public still cannot see this and buy into local press media ... that's where confusion will built

[2:17 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Saying someone is an "undergraduate" will only be insulting if that person should have know better ie. adult with more real world experience. The truth is that you came across to me as someone who seems to be regurgitating stuff from Econs 101 textbooks. 😂 Now that you say you are a parent of a 10 yo, then obviously that can't be true and I am wrong about the assumption that you are an undergrad with no real world experience. But, it does not change my impression that your observations/understanding of real world economics is no different from that of an undergrad, That is my impression and opinion based on what you said then. I will be happy to change that and/or stand corrected if/when you say something that shows a better understanding of econs/commerce/global trade in the real world context.

[2:18 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Btw long covid is not the same as the specific cardiovascular outcome tracked in the Nature article shared earlier. CV is much more serious, plus there r practical things we can do to make sure we get treatment asap if we experience a CV episode. The symptoms of heart attack and stroke r not what many people expect.

[2:18 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: also not to forget in todays world we have other sources of news to feed from as well

[2:18 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I said no such thing. In fact, if you bothered to read what I actually wrote, I said I have not encountered any cases of kids being depressed because of HBL, mask wearing etc.

[2:19 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: actually i think this is darn over reaction

[2:19 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: kid will just feel bore

[2:19 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: i feel threatened leh.,, how ah?  😂😂😂

[2:19 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and again like we discuss many mths ago, we are not in total lock down

[2:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: one still can go out right .. u can go to the park , beach,  kopitiam etc

[2:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: where is the stress

[2:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: where is the pressure

[2:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: and not sure if anyone notice, with masking up do you get less sick compare to the days of maskless ?

[2:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: all these stress on our kids are inflict by parents who are brainswash by articles and friends around

[2:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: is up to us individual as a family to make life as normal as possible (aka living with covid and taking care of ourselves)

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: dial 999 hahahahahahaha

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: Actually, I think CCA and other non-studious curriculum are affected by covid measures though. With group sizing etc, I'm sure interaction between students are also affected

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: Some sports also can't be played due to limitations on group size

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: some sports are interrupted due to covid vaccination dun forget

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: so go along with it

[2:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: cannot have sports

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: change it to games

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: That was my observation as well. That's why I challenged those statements made by a very upset ~BL . Which made me assume (wrongly) that he has no school going kids in his household.

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: even school camp, activities etc, cant be organised, need to be online, i think that does affect the kids tbh

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: ? e.g.?

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: from what i know its just that ppl cant exercises for 1-2 weeks after vaccination after that no problem

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: games which can be less energy intense -> board games .... not all baord games are boring can be brain teaser also

[2:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: err..

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Singaporean kids get depressed cos no more annual/bi-annual overseas vacation 😅

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Don't think they will take the complaint seriously 😂😂😂

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: i think exercise is q impt for our country alr... need to combat lifestyle diseases from young not wait until older then do steps challenge

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: lol

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: nvm lah each have his own ......ahhhh

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: we cannot have 1 rice feed same type of people

[2:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: exactly

[2:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 1 rice feed different types of people and mind

[2:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: sorry now got many flavour rice hahahahah i am out dated

[2:26 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: i will echo again -> vaccinated does not mean U ARE GOD.. u are still subjected to get WACK by CVOID ...... this idea better be imprint ... we can only keep Covid at distance with safe measures ......

[2:26 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Of course we are not back to pre-pandemic situation,,, but neither is the situation as dire as someone - the name of whom I cannot speak of in case I get accused of targeting/bullying - is describing right?

[2:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: if we think eu are doing what they doing now is correct let's see

[2:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors, 

Let’s be nice to one another to provide everyone a conducive space for discussion. 🙏

According to our Terms of Use, bullying and personal attacks on one another is not condoned. 🛎

⏪ Here’s today’s topic for discussion

[2:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Not really leh. In fact our school going kids in the household finally had the school organiised outdoor camp/activities resumed after numerous postponements in the past 2 years

[2:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: 2 years into the cycle we show how covid move like the season, if Omicron is not the last, EU and gang will be the NEW breeding ground when the musical chair lands at their region in 2 quater ... that time let's see what they will say .....

[2:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: key word is finally

[2:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: as in no strenuous sports/activities 2 weeks post vax

[2:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: is also depend on how the school up keep the environment ... if they just treat it as pre covid den is another breeding ground for cluster also

[2:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: yes. Which means it is no longer restricted

[2:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: is still restricted but now less

[2:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: hopefully govt continue to slowly relax

[2:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: all schools need to conform to G/MOH directive. So, it is all within guidelines which have been relaxed

[2:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: yes i know that, means all sports affected not some sports

[2:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: hopefully no cut corner ahh you know how things run sometimes on the ground ...

[2:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I am actually thinking the next announcement will be about further relaxing restrictions

[2:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: anyway people asking for normalisation of lives just because for travel , gathering should be well verbally bashed hahahahaha

[2:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: these are non essentials ....

[2:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: There are too many parents involved.. the schools cannot suka-suka cut corners one ... parents nowadays are more on the ball than the authorities 😂😂

[2:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: we want normalisation of lives on the basic factor that society and medical field knows how to handle covid and its relatives .....

[2:32 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: hoepfully dun stress the school with their ks (kia si kia su mindset)

[2:33 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: final word - stay safe all, the one who make it thru these times will be the real winner. is not about your travel , not about how much profit, not about support what govt .. is about U and your health.....

[2:33 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[2:34 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: oh.. there are no lack of those types.. its quite scary.. i empathise with the teachers/principals 😂

[2:37 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/why-are-children-hit-harder-by-the-omicron-variant

[2:37 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: it is taking a toll on everyone .. year-end overseas vacation is a National pastime 😂

[2:37 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Support for caregivers of those with special needs available beyond schools

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWEB

Commuters with special needs should approach bus captains if they need help: Baey Yam Keng

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWEn

* Support available in schools for families caring for special needs children: Chan Chun Sing*

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWEe

[2:38 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: o yeah leisure trip ... no have .. is end o fthe word ... is such article that fuel this depression stuff

[2:38 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: if you tell me no internet den is really depression hahahahah

[2:41 pm, 14/02/2022] +65 8233 5453: Agree~ lol

[2:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: @Joseph regularly insults people, not just me. It is a discrace that you do nothing to stop him. I am fed up of giving my time to come here and contribute to be insulted repeatedly by him. I am writing a formal complaint to the management of @reach and have plenty of evidence to show he has disregarded your request for everyone to be courteous, repeatedly and unashamedly insulted people here. We are volunteers trying to discuss topics that are relevant to the country. He resorts to personal attacks, insults and offensive statement under the guide of 'speaking the truth', 'giving his opion', ' highlight idiocy' or 'preventing people from 'talking rubbish'. I have tried to ignore his comments about me, but when he talks about my family and I politely ask him to stop, he keeps going and further insults me. This is not a robust debate. It is an offensive and unacceptable abuse of this platform.

[2:43 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 🤷‍♂️😔😟😞

[2:44 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Wow.. and the assumption is that message is only for me ,, and not you 👏👏👏  notice there is no emoticon for a 1-handed clap

[2:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Seems reach admin is not in control either way!?

[2:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Seems like you want to keep going @Joseph .

[2:48 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: Like police u fight doe already den step in hahahaha

[2:48 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors, please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group. REACH will not tolerate any disrespectful behaviour. 

It’s everyone’s responsibility to make this online space a safe and conducive one for all contributors to share your views and feedback on national issues. Please be reminded of our Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

[2:49 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Unfortunately is has been tolerated for too long. Last time you said that, @Joseph just mocked you and continued.

[2:50 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: @BL @Joseph Value both your perspectives and input, hope u guys continue to be in the group. Everyone just take a step back and have a coffee, all is fine. everyone just want to contribute and help.

[2:51 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🙏

[2:52 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I tried that - but @Joseph was not capable and continued to insult me and others. He has been warned so many times, but nothing happens, so it clearly needs to be escalated.

[2:52 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Chill

[2:53 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Just ignore him la. Hard to change minds over whatsapp, esp in argument mode. Delete his messages.

[2:53 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Yes. Sports cca still on rotational for SLS and F2F

[2:53 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Nobody means any harm

[2:53 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Agree. Kids need to have more opportunities to go into outdoor and get their hands dirty

[2:54 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Like I said, I am straight-talking and will openly disagree - with reason. I do not make threats like 👆 .  I prefer to reason/out-reason. If the other person can convince me with evidence, I will accept and walk away happy to have learnt something. Try that sometimes, Then maybe you won't face so many challenges to what you say. 

If REACH wants to remove me from the chat, so be it. I am sure if you carry talking with thinking first, next time, it will be someone else who will make you feel "insulted". 

I really don't give 2 hoots who you are. Not in the least bit interested. I am here because I find the comments "interesting". A lot of misinformation and misunderstanding of facts. Unlike you, I don't scrutinise WHOI am responding to .. but WHAT (comment) …

[2:54 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Not all schools

[2:56 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I am not the one who is baying for blood 😜

[2:57 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Agree. There will be always be 2 or more camps to an issue. Everyone has their rights to air their views.

[2:58 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: You have been repeatedly insulting me and others under the guise of 'challenging an opinion'. This is not about opposing views, of which I have had many interesting conversations with people here about many topics. None of them resort to personal insults that have nothing to do with the topic.

[2:58 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: ya but since he already expressed he feels attacked, then good to back down sometimes. Rest of us can make up our minds on who made the valid points...

[2:58 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Personal insults are not a valid view for this forum.

[2:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: we are all SGreans, same boat. Good to be nicer to one another.

[2:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: unless it's spam.

[2:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 😅

[2:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Let the moderator know

[3:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Ignore if you feel uncomfortable

[3:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Thank you for your feedback. We are aware of the situation and will take appropriate action shortly.

👉🏼 Pls be reminded to adhere to our TOUs.

https://www.reach.gov.sg/participate/reach-whatsapp-group-chat/reach-whatsapp-group-chat-terms-of-use

REACH does not tolerate and condone any forms of bullying or disrespect.

Thank you.

[3:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: ah gong lai liao...

[3:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🤣

[3:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Finally!

[3:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: I agree w this since I kena before

[3:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 😦😦😯😔😞😟😧

[3:02 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Have you wondered if maybe the reason is that those were fair comments. You may feel insulted, but that does not take away the fact that maybe what I said, made sense too 🤷‍♂️ 

Has it ever occurred to you that the comments you make may also be offensive to people who feel differently from you?

You start your comments like Mr Know-it-All, but when challenged with an alternate argument supported by facts, you moan and groan and cry father cry mother say people insult you, rude to you, etc etc.

While you are busy getting upset that not many agree with what you had said, find some time to think why people - like me -  are disagreeing with what you said. You don't like HOW i say it ... have you wondered how your own messages/comments are coming across to others? 

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Think about that.

[3:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🌩️

[3:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: You really can't help yourself can you. Even now you make it personal and use offensive, insulting language.

[3:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 😂🤣😅🤦‍♀️

[3:03 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: "moan and groan and cry father cry mother"

[3:04 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I think ultimately it is up to the schools to decide if they want to resume activities and at what level, when restrictions are relaxed. I guess not all schools have the same resources to resume/conduct the same activities taking into consideration restrictions that are still in-place. Also, probably considering the parents; feedback.

[3:06 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Yes no doubt.

Since now we are phasing to accepting covid as part of our daily life, we shouldn't be overly conservative. Taking one step forward, but still 2 steps back.

[3:06 pm, 14/02/2022] +Uncle Law: Accept it like normally fever and cough

[3:06 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: MOE guidelines are broad based so up to individual schools adapt and adjust accordingly to their abilities.

[3:06 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today's topic 😊

💬 How concerned are you about the surge in cases? Has this affected you or your loved ones' willingness to get the booster shot? What are your thoughts on the usage of Paxlovid to treat COVID-19 locally?

We have had good feedback from this group, and we hope that we can keep the discussion robust and active! 

Megan

[3:08 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Seems we are not out of the woods so current measures still apply although the thought of going through another year of compliance is tough!

[3:09 pm, 14/02/2022] +Caleb: Not concerned. Only concern if gov is scared then roll back to stick measure.

[3:10 pm, 14/02/2022] +Caleb: *strict

[3:10 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Well... I am unlike those people you speak of. My intention is not to insult, but I do accept that you may feel insulted by what I sometimes say. 

So.... you have a choice too... as long as I remain in this chat, maybe you want to think a bit more before you start commenting because, I WILL challenge and comment on what I disagree with or find questionable. Or, you can continue to make (in my opinion) unsubstantiated claims and brace yourself for what is to come.

Now that we have clarified our stance, lets be adult about it and acknowledge that what comes next, has as much to do with HOW and WHAT you are going to say. Same goes for me.

[3:10 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: How concerned are you about the surge in cases? - Still feels like we are too focused in case numbers, which are worryingly high, granted. But is it worrying because we assume it's like 2 years ago when people were getting very ill and there was not much treatment, or because hospitals were not equipped? Looking overseas may give some guidance to 'living with covid', and opening up a little more in our social lives. The country is making good steps, but now I think we can go further.

[3:11 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Woah.. is that a personal attack 😱😂😂😂😂😂

[3:12 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🤔

[3:12 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I respectfully ask you not to talk to me, which includes replying to my messages. Don't mention me, or my family, don't mock me and just ignore things you don't like about me or what I say. This forum is about the topic not each other.

[3:12 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Did you kanna today? Maybe look at when/why you were challenged? Were you challenged EVERY SINGLE time you say something? 🤷‍♂️

[3:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: This is an example of being provocative for the sake of it. It's not challenging, it's rude.

[3:13 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: You use offence, humiliation and rudeness when you 'challenge' someone.

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: In my company, they say you can share feedback by using the following phrases:

- I like...

- I like...

- I wonder...

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 😅

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Example: "07/01/2022, 10:24 - +Joseph: Not an insult. Just stating facts. Don't be offended/insulted by facts/truths."

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: this reply seems to suggest that you think that someone like me would develop severe symtoms and hence die, thats what natural selection means.

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors, 

Let’s be nice to one another to provide everyone a conducive space for discussion. 🙏

According to our Terms of Use, bullying and personal attacks on one another is not condoned. 🛎

⏪ Here’s today’s topic for discussion

[3:14 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: thats not a fact that was your opinion which had nothing to do with the topic

[3:15 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: just cause i don't agree with your 'facts and opinions' lol

[3:15 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Are you losing control!?

[3:16 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: I respectfully decline 🙄

[3:17 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: @+REACH this is the response when I asked not to be mocked or my family discussed in this forum.

[3:18 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: No its not... I think we all know what and who this is in reference to ... but I am surprised this came from you. Trying to gather support by intentionally misinterpreting an inside joke for something more sinister.

[3:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: No... you feel offended, humiliated and find me rude because you don't like how I am debunking your myths exaggerated comments

[3:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: I think if we have more ladies in this chat, maybe this wouldn't have happened...

[3:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: lol

[3:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Personal insults do nothing to debunk my comments, and instead focus on me rather than the topic. You making a statement that I am 'talking rubbish' doesn't mean that I am talking rubbish.

[3:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: guys are too argumentative

[3:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: This is not an argument. This is me defending myself against rudeness and personal insults.

[3:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: see... u just argued against my last message :p

[3:22 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: hahahah

[3:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: It's an explanation. I am clarifying, not arguing.

[3:23 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: 🙂

[3:24 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributor,

It is everyone’s responsibility to make this online space a safe and conducive one for all contributors to share your views and feedback on national issues.

You have breached our Terms of Use (TOU) and are hereby given an official warning. This is your first warning.

👉🏼 Reminder to adhere to our Terms of Use whilst sharing and discussing your views:

"You shall not use the Group to, or when accessing or participating in the Group, shall not:

upload, post, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that:

is or may be unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libellous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, religiously, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, irrelevant to REACH's purposes or irrelevant to the existing/ ongoing discussion(s). REACH has the sole discretion to decide if any Content falls within these said categories."

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

Please be reminded to be respectful and considerate to others in this WhatsApp chat group. REACH will not tolerate any disrespectful behaviour.

Megan

[3:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 👍😁 i know la... but u get my point.

[3:25 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Yes, I know.... <tired about this>

[3:26 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: focus on what you can control ba... just ignore those messages that you don't like or feel attacked. It's not real attacks, just words.

[3:27 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: you might be right (and you often have good points), but if you press too hard and make the others uncomfortable, you won't be changing minds too.

[3:29 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: You can't unread the messages though and he has no right to do it. We can't and don't live in a society where people just say what they like no matter how offensive. I've asked him politely to stop and he refuses.

[3:30 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: That statement refers to how modern science/medicine and somethings policy has prolonged the lifespan of organisms/animals/humans, far beyond what would otherwise be the case without such intervention. This is a luxury that our early ancestors did not enjoy, but had resulted in Natural Selection of, and survival of the fittest, thus ensuring the survivability of certain species.

But.. your interpretation of what I meant is not entirely accurate, I don't mean "would".... but rather "could", al;though I was actually arguing in favour of what you were proposing... which is less Govt intervention....less restrictions.

[3:31 pm, 14/02/2022] +Angelica: ?? lol ?? one statement can elaborate until 2 paragraphs lol

[3:32 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Once and for all, get a grip on this !

[3:33 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: 😅😂🤣🤦‍♀️

[3:39 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph: Totally agree. Gonna take a break from this chat for the day. 😊

Just want to clarify, my intention is not to insult anyone. I don't know who you are. I only see what you write/comment and will respond/comment to seek clarification or attempt to correct a misconception - which, I am ready to acknowledge may be incorrect as well. In those instances, show me why I am wrong, and if I am convinced, I will change my view....even if it makes me look silly. I value knowledge over pride.

[3:39 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: 🙏👍

[3:40 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: side track will we back down because of such statement

[3:40 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: this should be the main track actually...hahahahah

[3:41 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: i do not see any wrong in a country govt protection its own resident with the best means. Instead of follow others where their daily infection is taking a toll on their medical and death rates ya?

[3:41 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: from such articles we can see how self fish certain kind of people out there are... u die ur issue as long as i can do my stuff in YOUR country

[3:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: We decide how best to deal with the pandemic.  We are not blind to the shortcomings of closure.

[3:42 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Yes - it's a hard balance as the world rapidly opens up. Singapore will lose out to tourist dollars, but maybe its a price we have to pay, just for a few more months. However, if Covid doesn't dissapate, then how do we recover? It's no longer about our internal cases, it's about global cases. If they don't go down, how do we open up?

[3:43 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: I think if we take a step back, this is the reality of how foreigners feel about our COVID restrictions. You can argue what's right or wrong but the consequences are facts that we have to bear.

[3:43 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but the consequences are facts that we have to bear-> exactly ... and do we have the capability to bear the worst case ..

[3:44 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: I will wait for the light at the end of the tunnel

[3:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: EU and US already went through the worst of COVID and paid a dear price in deaths and morbidity. That's why they can say what they say now. Most of people there already had COVID. They don't care if SG control COVID well or not, they just care about their personal convenience. We would think the same way if we were them.

[3:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Our government is well aware

[3:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: spot on thus our society must be clear minded and not sway by such article ......

[3:45 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Yep, so we should and most probably will open up sooner rather than later.

[3:46 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: open at the expense of our social services i will not rather

[3:46 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: with Omicron, it's now possible with manageable risks internally.

[3:46 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: japan was caught in this situation where their education when down die to massive teaching resources have to isolate

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: Omicron + 90% vaccination + Paxlovid = manageable risk

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: thus i rather we dun rush and give in to presssure though it indeed sound nice to open up without mask and whatever

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: + expanded hospital capacity

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: we were blinded sided by Delta

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: I think now the whole country is more ready

[3:47 pm, 14/02/2022] +Ah Heng: but like mentioned if Omicron is not the last ..... it could be a slap in the face .....

[3:48 pm, 14/02/2022] +JC: likelihood is new variants will become milder

[3:48 pm, 14/02/2022] +Joseph Yap: 💬 How concerned are you about the surge in cases? Has this affected you or your loved ones' willingness to get the booster shot? What are your thoughts on the usage of Paxlovid to treat COVID-19 locally?

I am concerned about the surge in cases especially when the cases are becoming more prevalent among the children. 

This has not affected my loved ones’ or my willingness to get booster shot as my loved ones and I have all received booster shot as soon as they are eligible. I sincerely hope the surge in cases will convince those who are still hesitant to get the booster shot as soon as possible. I have a personal friend who had been hesitant to receive a booster shot for months and he was infected a few days ago. 

I welcome the usage of Paxlovid as it provides medical treatment for the vulnerable groups.

[3:51 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I'm excited at the prospect of no masks outside.... especially now the temperatures are going up.

[3:52 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Likewise

[3:55 pm, 14/02/2022] +typing: Think you have to consider where some of these stories come from and the media in different countries; public relations people in tourist hotspots really encourage these kind of stories in order to help the tourist industry in their country by making their country look more attractive to visit.

[3:56 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Agree

[3:59 pm, 14/02/2022] +typing: Many (most even) of my friends travelled back to their home countries for Christmas.  

Whilst many said they did really enjoy some of the freedoms that had in their home countries (less masks, no TraceTogether, dinners for 6(!!), the overwhelming view was that they returned to Singapore with a renewed respect for what our government has done to protect us all.

[4:00 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: True - worth checking if it's just spin or if the restrictions really have been lifted. If the latter then people will prefer to go there and not risk self-isolation. I'm looking to go to Europe and right now Italy seems very difficult from Singapore, hence unlikely I will go there.

[4:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: ha yes I can relate to that, and share the feeling. Most of my UK friends have had covid (and 2 have long covid), but that was last year and things are different now.

[4:10 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Singapore-Indonesia agreements were carefully negotiated, benefit both sides: Teo Chee Hean

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWEr

Singapore-Indonesia airspace pact resolves longstanding issue, benefits global community: Iswaran

👉🏼 https://str.sg/wWEC

[4:12 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: I recall that Bintan/Batam will be opening up for Singapore, which is good for their tourism, and those of us who want a change of scenery. Not clear what the travel requirements are for people transiting through Singapore, or Singaporeans returning.

[5:28 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors

We’d love to hear more from you on today's topic 😊

💬 How concerned are you about the surge in cases? Has this affected you or your loved ones' willingness to get the booster shot? What are your thoughts on the usage of Paxlovid to treat COVID-19 locally?

Megan

[6:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +Smiley face: To: All Honorable Members of This Chatgroup

Please research on UK, Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Ireland statistics per 100,000 stratified on age groups, vaccunation rate and stages, infection numbers and death numbers. These numbers are readily available at each respective government covid  website.

How these countries quantified their numbers, dropped all covid mandates and opens up?

Looking forward to a fruitful discussion, our Chatmates. 

Happy Valentine's Day To All!

[6:02 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: 👍 Good point and interesting analysis!

[6:06 pm, 14/02/2022] +Dong Liang: Honorable members are for MPs.

[6:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Rama: Any MP here!?

[6:20 pm, 14/02/2022] +Noraini: Booster or no booster, still can get omicron.

Concern on increasing infection, not just in Spore, but world.  Yes, affected personnally.  

One coffeeshop lady was absent for abt one week.  Just see tiday.   Assuming missing in action due to omicron.

[6:21 pm, 14/02/2022] +BL: Yes - hope it that vax reduces symptoms significantly.

[6:41 pm, 14/02/2022] +Smiley face: Good British mannerism is correct to address MPs as Honorable.

Let our Chatmates be also inclusively addressed as Honorable Members together with our MPs.

[6:49 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:55 pm, 14/02/2022] +Smiley face: 14 February. 2022 

To: Distinguished Ministers and All Honorable Members 

"OPEN SESAME - Are We Ready To Face The Realities And Picking The Right Battle? " 

"Fear is a reaction. Courage is a decision.”

- - Winston Churchill

Ready:

Be known, Singapore can stand on par as a covid 'SMART & MATURED' nation together with the handful of Europeans countries in descaling these covid medical and social mandates of the past months. In geo perspective, importantly, Singapore could be the FIRST in Asia to emerge and to engage that is, we are fully OPEN for business 24/7! 

Scaling:

One big pain, the global supplies shock are real from new cars to foods security, prices will go up! These shocking trends will persist into the next 4 quarters or longer towards 2025, from orders input to manufacture, to deliver and to sell, all these transactions consume time! Business of all scales need to work towards the assumption of normalcy. Of late it is tricky to forecast budget, guessing profits or praying for minimal losses; operating under mixed signals and many global uncertainties! 

Scaling wise, there is a cost factor and there is a supply variable to handle, whether to scale upwards or cut capacity; both ways have lost cost to be factored into each strategic move an organisation or small business takes when reacting to a country's posture, policies and the regional & global perspectives . 

An example is an owner of a multi stars hotel. Once a positive signal, it scales UP to meet impending guests arrival, this operator will have to master up to 50% headcount prior to 2020 metrics of operations. Given this promising signal, how would this hotel performs on a daily, weekly, monthly and quarterly based on occupancy rate of 50% more or lesser (assuming this hotel is not a contracted quarantine center) ? 

To scale DOWN to a typical small eateries (小餐馆) , how much foods to store, how many cooks to hire in order to meet dine-in customers and take away demands, given a positive economics signal? (assuming once in a while closed due to infections or violation of SMM) 

If you ask a small business to choose between the fear of COVID lockdown versus his/her INCOME, the common answers will be income. As for the rest of the multitude of uncertainties from inflation or GST hikes or Ukraine war, it matters to many and the same time it may not have an immediate answer to the simple man/woman on the street? 

What is this fancy word of normalcy (ideal) the opposite is abnormal (not ideal) to bluntly say? Is this a guessing game? No, it cannot be! 

Will 90% of its population vaccinated with a minimum of 2 doses enough to open fully? How about 95% of the population received double doses including children of 4 years and below will have a stronger protection prior to fully open? How about a 100%  fully vaccinated population? These are signals that policymakers must communicate to the public the quantified metrics to fully open besides the two critical numbers which are ICU occupancy and death. 

It is a transitional timeline for nations from life saving phase to today's economics, it is a moment of many changes converging to new ways of living. Importantly to millions, simply to make a living! 

The summation of these hundreds big economics players, the thousands of small timers ( 小店, 小生意) and the millions people on the street: one sure thing is to SURVIVE and OPEN SESAME (芝麻开门), said Ali baba (阿里巴巴)! 

Global Risks Order:

BV uninfected (BV = Boosted 3 or 4) 

BV infected

FV uninfected (FV = 2 or 3 Doses) 

FV infected

PV uninfected (PV = 1or 2 Dose) 

PV infected

UV uninfected ( UV = 0, 1, 2, 3 doses) 

UV infected

Local Risks:

Stratified risks according to penetration rate & stages of vaccines, infections, hospitalisations, death and age group interval of 10 years. 

Secondly, segmentation of population at the highest risks such as the seniors age 65 onwards, existing medical conditions like heart, respiratory, cancer (remission), Autoimmune, ADE, diabetic and BMI and so on.

Third, apply these LOCAL medical data to mirror match INCOMING visitors from all countries and duration of stay. The longer a visitor stays, the risks assessment will apply to this person. The extreme being foreign workers of all permits with a 12 months period of stay versus thousands of 'FREE & EASY' visitors staying 2 nite to 30 nights; the former shall be stratified according to MOH SIMPLE guildlines to include QUOTA per week and travel advisory issued by other countries other than Singapore.

After all its all about headcount of all spectrum and purposes that bring about activities and vibrancy at the same time a 'suitcase' full of uncertainties, to begin with the bug - coronavirus! To open sesame or not so, that's the billions dollars question! 

Metaphorical:

"Who Needs Who Most ..." 

The magical password - OPEN SESAME! 

Profile of a careful, cautious and meticulous, this funny housewife! 

Here it goes, this housewife expects all her visitors to be FULLY vaccinated, SHOW negative test kits and SCAN her home barcode before entering her bungalow? She also expects her obedient domestic helps to AREA CLEAN with almost spotless dust, dirt and odourless before the guests arrive and leave? 

Lessons:

Perhaps many opportunities will just BYPASS these full of gantries and barriers countries' to other places that are least troublesome, UK being the freest and more countries following too! It is also fair to ask what/where are the potential threats? 

This post covid, will there be a NEW global ranking for which countries are the EASIEST lots to do business with, 

to QUIK start a business and lastly EASY to fold up a business? 

Finally, are we having a ''golden" time now? For time and tide wait for no one! Common sense says, "it knows these answers!" 

Afterwords:

Reported by Toh Ting Wei of ST: 

Dubai Airshow - 

Organisers reported an attendance of 104,000 attendees from 148 countries.

The Dubai airshow had safe distancing measures and mask-wearing requirements in place, but did not require attendees to be fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Singapore Airshow - 

All visitors have to be fully vaccinated and test negative in a daily pre-event antigen rapid test before they can attend the airshow at the Changi Exhibition Centre.

All overseas attendees are required to take a supervised test at designated locations like hotels, while locals have to self-test and upload their result onto the Health Promotion Board website.

Exhibitors and visitors can dine in only specific dining areas.

If events elsewhere like the Dubai Airshow can be conducted successfully with much less restrictions and costs associated with Covid-19, then these other locations could well start to outshine Singapore as a destination of choice.

Above reported by Straits Times 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/on-the-ground-experience-with-singapore-airshow-should-pave-way-for-bolder-reopening-moves

"ECONOMICS IS A NUMBER GAME, A NUMBER GAME NEEDS BIG DIGITS! That's my view whenever the word ECONOMICS flashes!!! 

" 经济学是一场数字游戏，数字游戏需要大数字！每当经济一词闪烁时，这就是我的观点！！！"

- - anonymous 

"Don't let those little gremlins (covid) disrupt your grand scheme..."

- - anonymous

               - - END - -

[7:01 pm, 14/02/2022] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

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