REACH 293 - The expansion of Vaccinated Travel Lanes (VTLs) in the past few weeks have made travel - and with several options - possible. Have you made plans to travel for work and for leisure? What are your considerations  and concerns about travelling overseas? (SK)

15 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:45 am, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, 

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[10:02 am, 15/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

Most travellers can now take an antigen rapid test (ART) performed by a trained professional overseas before flying into Singapore. This applies to those returning via the vaccinated travel lane (VTL) and from countries in Categories II and III, which include Australia, Britain and the United States. Previously, all travellers, except those aged two and below, had to take a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test to return and test negative within 48 hours before departure. 

💬 The expansion of Vaccinated Travel Lanes (VTLs) in the past few weeks have made travel - and with several options - possible. Have you made plans to travel for work and for leisure? What are your considerations  and concerns about travelling overseas? 

Singapore citizens and permanent residents do not have to apply for a vaccinated travel pass before travelling back. They can show either the physical or digital record of their vaccination before departure at the airline check-in counter and to the immigration authorities on arrival in Singapore. 

Vaccinated Singapore residents will still be able to travel without quarantine to seven of the eight European countries that have vaccinated travel lanes (VTL) with the Republic. According to their border regulations, Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Britain have yet to re-impose compulsory quarantine on travellers from Singapore despite the European Union (EU) raising its Covid-19 risk assessment of the Republic on Nov 9. Finland and Sweden, two other European countries that will start VTLs with Singapore from Nov 29, have also not introduced quarantine curbs on travellers from Singapore. 

Singapore will also add three new vaccinated travel lanes (VTLs), with Malaysia, Sweden and Finland, and increase the daily quota to 6,000 travellers in total from Nov 29. Vaccinated travellers will be able to take flights between Changi Airport and Kuala Lumpur International Airport without quarantine from Nov 29. 

👉 https://str.sg/3Gei 

👉 https://str.sg/3GBx

👉 https://str.sg/3cNH

👉 https://str.sg/3GLM

👉 https://str.sg/3Gir

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[10:51 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: All good news. Same rules should apply for all residents of Singapore not just Cit/PR. Not nice having this 1st/2nd class Resident in place. We are all supposed to be in it together!

[10:55 am, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Look into this

[11:05 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Priority is to get back our citizen as well as PR.  Don’t think it is for discrimination. 

Still on the soft opening phase, we have seen in Europe opening up going to lockdown again. We don’t want that to happen here.

[11:05 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: If it is because of quota, then I understand, but that isn't made clear. If it because of infection then it makes no sense.

[11:07 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: As this pandemic we have realise staying overseas won’t be as good as in Singapore😅

We still need singaporean overseas to learn from the best hence giving them a easy way to comeback. To facilitate talent training abroad.

[11:08 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, if quota based ok. But why so many stories about Entry Permit not being given and people's EP being cancelled?

[11:08 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Many of people I know turn down overseas assignments due to the risk of not able to come back or any issue back home hard to settle. Specially those with kids

[11:09 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Have you think of those are for jobs? 😅 

Without given EP means their jobs are open to people still in Singapore 😅

[11:22 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: So it's a process to flush out foreigners? How does that build trust and confidence in Singapore. People won't come here, won't set up business here and won't invest here. Then no jobs for anyone.

[11:23 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Sad but you just see yourself lor.. I have colleagues work here many years can’t come back

[11:24 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: i dont understand what you have written.

[11:24 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: I mean, without the EP many cannot come back. I do have colleagues then go back to visit family and can’t return

[11:25 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes that is what i am saying. that is the wrong way to treat people. they have a 2 year EP, it should be honored

[11:26 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Go out easy coming back hard. My contractor some mandate if you go back without company approval, all benefit cancelled.

Benefit for those that stay on, was given extra due to not able to return to Malaysia. If they return come back the benefit will no long have

[11:27 am, 15/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Those was given when economy was good. Now don’t need so many workers 😅

Too many come in also no jobs. 

But then again many companies can’t find workers(mainly due to Low pay when supply reduce they can’t find cheaper labour)

[11:28 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: EP isn

[11:28 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: t cheap labour, they are skilled

[11:31 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: The point of the VTL scheme is to allow short-term visits (in and out of Singapore) it's not relevant to jobs.

I think the point is that EPs need to be able to briefly leave the country and have the certainty that they can get back in.

In addition, please seem to forget the VTL is not just for holidays and family visits, it's so that Singapore residents (SG, PR and EP) can do business trips and help regenerate the economy.

[11:31 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: Sorry: PEOPLE seem to forget.

[11:32 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, I agree with this, points well made.

[11:33 am, 15/11/2021] +Angelica: Have not used VTL but have travelled recently to Europe. Concerns are mostly additional cost from VTL flight and PCR tests. As well as getting covid overseas and having to stay at destination for another 14-21 days..

[11:46 am, 15/11/2021] +RH: This slow approach is probably the better way to go,  with regards to opening up. 

We dun wan the sitn to get out of hand again and hv to go bk to the drawing board. 

We also know ther r ppl out ther who,  becoz they hv felt cooped up for more than a year,  can't wait to go out for a bit of fun / "breath of fresh air",  only to come bk infected and become a super spreader. 

Hv we alredi forgotten abt the 'super spreader' , so fast?  Tsk.  Tsk. 

😖

Worse,  pick up a new strain of virus ... 

I think this is a "gingerly step" towards re opening ourselves up. 

Also,  it could be a way to buy ourselves more time to prepare additional healthcare resources in case ther is a sudden surge in cases. 

I mean, looking at stats fr other countries on opening up,  i…

[11:49 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: This debate is about different rules for citizens/pr and EP holders, not about opening up or not.

[11:50 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: If you look at Singapore's stats, the number of people returning from overseas with Covid infections is almost zero and every single returning person is tested twice so we know that the numbers are good.

And why is that the case, because you have to be vaccinated to travel.

[11:53 am, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: And let's not forget that arguably the biggest "super-spreader" Singapore has had and could arguably be the root-cause of the increase of cases from 1-2 a day to the level we're at now was caused by people visiting karaoke places .....

[11:54 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: to be fair, it was the fishing port, which then went to the karaoke place

[11:54 am, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes, this is accurate

[0:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I was not thinking of our recent local cases. 

I was referring to the one way back when we did not close our borders in time & the Delta virus caught us all off guard...

[0:17 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

National Level

1. Happy that VTL is negotiated with various Countries and has now open up to many Countries. This will help to revive our air hub, business travel, MICE, tourism, hospitality, retail and F&B business.

2. This will boost our GDP, our business and create jobs for Singaporeans.

Personal Level

1. No plan to travel overseas for leisure or business.

2. Reasons :- too many uncertainties and health risk. 

- Once in overseas, don't know what health protocols to observe - eg. need quarantine (though VTL means no need - but don't know - things can change easily), how to know oveseas recognise our vaccination status, and other health protocols to observe not clear. Also will foreigners observe mask wearing, safe distancing etc that pose a risk to us, and if infected need medical care - how to go about doing it, healthcare cost etc.

Too much uncertainties and risk - especially for leisure travel.

3. But not discouraging others from travelling overseas who are more courageous and good risk-taker.

[0:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Since this is a debate abt diff rules for diff ppl,  I m just giving my two-cents worth as to the reason for such distinctions...

[0:18 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: +1

[0:25 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Coronavirus: Netherlands eyes partial lockdown, despite nearly 85 per cent vaccinated.

Netherlands reports a record daily number of new Covid-19 cases.

Hospitals under pressure, even with relatively high vaccination rate.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGzw7t2WmgM8WShEqBqi_hIqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMLiWxwU?uo=CAUiANIBAA&hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

[0:25 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

German state health ministers call to extend state of emergency as COVID-19 cases soar.

Germany in state of emergency - where Europe style of endemic living with covid flop badly.     

 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/german-state-health-ministers-call-extend-state-emergency-covid-19-cases-soar-2311636

[0:26 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore hospitalisation number and serious cases seems to have plateau.

Singapore "Middle Path Endemic" living with covid is holding up - despite gradual loosening of restrictions measures.

[0:33 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: https://www.straitstimes.com/tech/tech-news/59m-customers-of-reddoorz-hotel-booking-site-leaked-in-spores-largest-data-breach?utm_medium=social&utm_source=telegram&utm_campaign=sttg

[0:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I said this before and I will say it again.

I expect my Govt to PRIORITISE SINGAPOREANS over Non-Singaporeans...just as everyone citizen in their own country expects there own Govts to do,

[0:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: everyone every other

[0:44 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Very black and white statement to make. It has no meaning without context.

[0:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: It is a very straightforward and simple statement. Applies in every context including and not limited to ALL those you mentioned.

[0:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I didn't say marginalise non-Singaporeans by the way.

[0:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I said prioritise Singaporeans. Hope you get the subtle but equally important difference

[0:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Preventing travel through fear of losing your pass seems a harsh. Not honouring a 2 year EP seems harsh. You don't agree?

[0:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: But, just in case you don't get it ... try going to OTHER COUNTRIES (or their embassy, as a Singaporean?) and demand that you be given the same treatment as their citizens. Let us know how that work out for you

[0:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: I don't think every other citizen expect their own Government to do this. Fortunately.

[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: every other citizen in other countries

[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I don't know another country that said only their citizens can travel with  right to return.

[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: meaning an Aussie would expect the Australian Govt to prioritise them over Singaporeans for example

[0:49 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: AUSTRALIA

[0:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I think residents had the same rights regardless of citizenship

[0:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: But I don't know

[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: at one point, even their own citizens were denied entry unless under very special conditions, and for foreigners, don;t even think about it

[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yeah

[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: obviously

[0:51 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: That's why I am telling you otherwise\

[0:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: You make a blanket statement about every citizen in every country in the world.

[0:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Nor do you

[0:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I made a general statement which I am very sure, reflects the majority. Just think back to the issues and arguments at each election. What are the politicians promising? What are the people vocalising?

[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: He who shouts loudest wins?

[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I would suggest you stop showing off your naivete

[0:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: I don't believe that many Australians would expect the Australian government to prioritise Australians.  They would expect the Australian government to treat all Australian residents equally.

And, yes Australia did have a quota for people entering Australia but it applied equally to all Australian residents, irrespective of citizenship.

[0:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Is it necessary for a gov to cancel someone's 2 year EP because they go visit their family abroad?

[0:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Right, thank you.

[0:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I guess there is always one rude obnoxious person on every list.

[0:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: It is not. But is that the reason why it happened? Or is it what you THOUGHT happened?

[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: Not true.  They said it Aussie's left they would have to apply under the quote to come back in unless they had a special reason.   The quota applied to all residents.

[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: you still guessing at this point?

[0:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Seems like you are ignoring the messages that discredit your arguments.

[1:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I'm not rude to you. You don't like my pint of view sure, but you attack personally time and time again.

[1:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: These only made the sitn worse. 

Clear cases of irresponsible behaviour in adults tt I abhor. 

But they didn't start it.  

Apologies for wrong choice of words 'super spreader' .

But u know wher I'm coming from...

[1:01 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Who is the "they" you are talking about and is it hearsay or you had direct/reliable information? 

I had quite a few Aussie friends who had problems getting back into Australia...and I am talking about short biz trips, but permanently returning back to Australia.

[1:03 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: You Gen-strawberry? Why so easily bruised? I am direct and curt sometimes. Deal with it or ignore.

[1:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Which is the 👆🏻one tt started it all,  way back when... 

At the point of entry. 

VTL relates to our country's entry and exit points. 

Hence,  I think this differentiated move by the gov is a 'gentle' step fwd b4 they go further. 

Like I said b4, we also dun wan to overwhelm the healthcare system here. 

Our healthcare professionals need a break.  They hv bn working hard enuff..   Dun u agree?.

[1:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: you disagreed. In order to dis*credit*, you need more than someone else just repeating your same (misguided) statements

[1:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: I don't have to deal with it. You don't have a right to talk to people like this.

[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Should just focus on the topic.

And should not engage in endless quarrel.

[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Getting petty!

[1:07 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Focus on the issue.

Not on the person.

[1:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yes

[1:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes I do, especially when I feel that it is warranted. It seems to me you never had anyone speak to you in any other way than that which makes you think you are smart/right/good...... its about time ... I guess 🤷‍♂️

[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not focusing on the person. I argued against what he said. Unfortunately, he/she decided to take it personally

[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Frankly I don;t care who made what statement

[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♂️😞

[1:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: If I don't agree with it, I say why

[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Its nothing personally ... unless you want it to be

[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is totally personal. I regret getting sucked into it. Just focus on the debate and topic.

[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes it is. Because you wanted to make it a personal issue

[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors, let's be courteous to one another so that we can have a conducive discussion :)

[1:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Like I said, I responded to the statement you made

[1:12 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: For everyone's sake,  just private message me if you want to be insulting. That way I can block you and dont have to read your insults.

[1:12 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I don't know who "BL" is and I really don;t care. If it were a Minister who made that same statement you did, and I had a chance to, I would let him/her know exactly how I feel about it the same way I did you

[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is a forum, not parliament. Have some courtesy and respect for others who are here to contribute.

[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: You are not making sense. Anyway, like I said, I am not targeting YOU. It is not about YOU.

[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +Cross finger: So true.  This person always resorts to personal insults and attacks if anyone has a different view from him.  Wastes everyone else's time.

[1:13 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Just stop it.

[1:15 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Booster jabs could make ‘big difference’ in beating Covid if rolled out to younger groups, Neil Ferguson says.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/booster-jabs-could-big-difference-103537756.html

[1:15 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Not personal attacks, just retorts against statements that I disagree with. The more idiotic the statement, the more curt my retorts.

[1:16 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

More countries are convinced and supporting booster shot to curb the Delta wave.

[1:17 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/third-vaccine-jabs-boosting-chances-140057818.html

How third vaccine jabs are boosting the chances of a restriction-free Christmas.

[1:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: It is not acceptable to have someone on this forum who says we (sometimes) make idiotic statements, and he has the right to saywhat he likes in return. This is what suppresses free debate.

[1:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: This is not acceptable.

[1:28 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Locally transmitted cases also plateau.

So :-

1. Transmission cases

2. Hospitalisation number

3. Serious illness cases

4. Death number

All point to Singapore Delta wave stabilising and plateauing.

This is an indication that Singapore "Middle Path Endemic" living with covid is holding up and working well.

While we :-

1. Opening up our restrictions measures step by step in a calibrated manner.

2. Open up our borders through VTL.

But :-

1. Ramping up vaccination to those unvaccinated.

2. Ramping up booster shot.

3. Maintaining masks, social distancing measures.

All these fine balancing - health safety and reopening of economy - via Middle Path Endemic - are working well for us.

Let us work harder on:-

1. Vaccinating the unvaccinated.

2. Ramp up booster shot.

3. Using more potent anti-viral theuraptics medicine to treat hospitalisation cases to reduce development into more serious illness and death.

4. Look into nasal spray vaccines that block infection.

To minimise death rate daily (this is one area I feel very concern about) and to reduce hospitalisation.

[1:31 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I'd like to ask... 

Any progress on making ART kits more affordable,  less expensive? 

...  Sori,  this is the best place for such flw up...  😉

[1:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I think the latest move to make the diehards pay their own medical bills if infected is a good one. 

One of my still-not-yet-vax frens has finally made the effort to get an appt....

[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 👍

[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: 😂

[1:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: 😂

[1:37 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心:

I just got my 3rd booster shot last week.

I feel very good and well protected.

But will still observe safe distancing measures by wearing masks in public and follow safe distancing measures.

[1:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Please lah...  some old man even used 4-letter word here also bo taiji ,,, if I get warned/booted out just because I call out naive statements/correct misinformation (not saying you), then I won't want to be part of this forum as well. You can end up with like-minded strawberries, hold hands, pat each other on the backs for making nice sounding, idealistic (unrealistic) statements that have no real world relevance 😑

[1:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Did you take the same vax as the first 2? As in if you took the Pfizer shots initially, the booster is the Pfizer one as well?

[1:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: It wasn't the case when the virus first appeared on the horizon last year leading these people to believe that they had freedom of  choice.

[1:44 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes.

My 1st 2 jabs is Pfizer-BioNTech.

My 3rd jab also Pfizer.

I try to follow Israel 3 jab model - that give very good outcome.

[1:44 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Please be reminded that abuse, bullying and personal attacks on fellow contributors will not be condoned.

[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: What is the likely possibility of a fourth booster shot bearing in mind the expiry time frame of the three earlier shots?

[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Then be CONSISTENT

[1:45 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: If you can't, no one will respect that

[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Was wondering when this will come out

[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Don't know.

No information on the need for 4th booster shot yet

[1:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Thanks

[1:50 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I see. 

Read some article somewhere (ST I think) where a report seemed to suggest that a P-P-M combination resulted in a higher antibody count compared to a P-P-P regime. But also hearing that some people who took the P-P-M dose experienced some discomfort after the M booster 😅

[1:53 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some of my relatives took moderna vaccines even though their 2 jabs are Pfizer.

They got 2 very uncomfortable weeks - fever, headache, fatigue.

My 3rd jab is not painful.

At night my arm sore like the 1st 2 jabs.

Yesterday no sore but itchy around that area.

Today all soreness and itchy gone.

No other discomfort like fever, fatigue etc.

[1:54 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Most important, Israel total population got 3 Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine jabs - and now they are out of pandemic.

So I just follow the formula that works.

I not so adventurous to try the untested.

[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: All my three jabs was from Pfizer but the third one caused back ache ontop of an aching arm.

[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: What will be for us!?

[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: Thanks for sharing

[1:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: 👍

[1:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: I do believe in freedom of choice,  up to a point. 

By 'diehard', I mean those who r eligible but refuse to get jabbed. 

This latest rule hits these ppl where it hurts most...  Their pockets.  

So,  in a way,  I think it is effective, as a last ditch effort to convince this grp of ppl to go for vax. 

How much effective,  I dun hv the stats. 

Perhaps Gov can gv us an indication in some public announcement or sth like tt?

[1:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think Singapore doing well base on all our indicators.

If everything goes well, we may join Israel soon - out of pandemic into endemic.

[1:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Great

[1:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: So, can't blame the government for being reasonable up to a point.

[1:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Yup!

[1:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Yes, step by step we are edging closer. Just need the kids to be vaxxed

[2:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +65 9617 1577: Same here

[2:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Even now,  ther is a "choice".

1. Go get vax

2. Or get medical professional to give exemption letter

3. Or pay for the medical bills if one is still Un-Vax & gets infected.

[2:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: A related question if I may ask- can any household member deny entry into their home for a relative or others who is not vaccinated?

[2:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: 🤔 gosh! 

That's a tough one!

[2:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Asked this in a Telegram support group but got no response

[2:05 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: A home is a private property. I think you can deny entry to anyone (except against official/authorities with the appropriate permit/authorisations) for any, or no reason at all.

[2:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: 1st qn... 

How much do you "trust" this unvax person?

[2:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Will it help if the law is clear on this?

[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Ya.  It is a personal choice,  really. 

Depends on whether u wan this relative in your life or not,  after u refuse entry. 

Lol.

[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: True

[2:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: I haven't checked, but I am quite sure the law is unambiguous on the rights of a homeowner.

[2:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: So, a grey area can have unwanted consequences?

[2:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: 😁

[2:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: As far as the law is concerned, I think its pretty straightforward. The issue is always with relations/relationships 😅

[2:09 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Unfortunately so

[2:13 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes kids need to be vaccinated before we come come out of pandemic into endemic.

This is now the biggest missing link.

[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://stayprepared.sg/staywell/

[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Registration for free mouth gargle starts today

[2:56 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is one way to help to block infection.

20% effective.

[2:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: This seems like a strange question... (no issues with asking it but I wonder what's the premise behind this question).

[3:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Those who are vaccinated should not fear those who are unvaccinated. In fact, it should be the other way around... those who are unvaccinated should fear contact with anyone else as COVID becomes endemic.

[3:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +Simon: 👍😄

[3:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Vax is not immunity. Can still catch Covid and most likely to catch from an Unvaxed person.

[3:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Can you share the study which shows 20% effectiveness in a real world setting?

[3:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Not true. You can catch covid from anyone. In fact, most likely to be from vax person because (1) there are more vax persons than unvax person (2) vax persons are allowed more freedom hence more likely to catch the virus (3) vax persons are more likely to be asymptomatic and hence more likely to spread virus.

[3:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: lol i see your logic, but clearly 1 Unvax person with Covid is more likely to spread a stronger measure of Covid than a 1 vax person with Covid.

[3:15 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: yep - I guess you are thinking from a viral shedding perspective. However, that's not reality as there's no way we are exposed in a 1:1 controlled manner to vax vs. unvax. So conceptually, the correct thinking is that if you are vaxed, you are very safe - the unvaxed should be more worried about meeting you than the other way around.

[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: this is a study based on dorm workers in 2020 that is based on the old variant of the virus.

[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: yes

[3:16 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: there is no evidence that the same strategy would yield any efficacy for the delta variant

[3:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: No harm for those who don't mind to use mouth wash, but don't expect it to have any real protective effect as it may not work the same way for (1) delta variant (2) in non-dormitory settings.

[3:18 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Temasek may have wasted taxpayers money on this one. Good PR maybe, but the effectiveness is questionable.

[3:18 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/temasek-foundation-to-offer-free-mouth-gargle-for-all-singapore-households

Temasek Foundation to offer free mouth gargle for all Singapore households

[3:19 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fdmed.2021.648547/full

[3:19 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: For robust evidence, I suggest you look for systematic reviews - not newspaper articles.

[3:20 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: I'm not saying mouth gargle is harmful, but don't assume it has any effect because there might not be any.

[3:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: What a waste of money 

Bad odour or what??

Tamasek Foundation should doing more like sending us the ART KIT & Mask in the midst of fight on Covid 19 

Register for Gargle just a waste of time & money as well 

It's means little to the war with Covid

-1 Tamasek this time around👎🏻👎🏻

[4:04 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: This statement partially incorrect. Don't take this the wrong way...and am definitely not targeting you....but it is important to clarify because this is one of the arguments that the misguided anti-vaxxers use to challenge everyone else....

Since almost 90% of the community is vaxxed, the likelihood of encountering someone who is vaxxed is 10x higher than someone who is unvaxxed (all other factors constant). If you factor in more stringent restrictions for unvaxxed, then the probability is even more skewed. So, unless an unvaxxed person is (more than) 10x more infectious than a vaxxed person, and movement restrictions are uniform, it is more likely that we will be catching CV19 from a vaccinated persons.

The vax reduces infection rates by (40-50% if I recall correctly), but what is does very well, is reduce the effects of the CV19. The B-cell immunity from the vax kicks in earlier to defend against the virus, while buying us time for B-cell immunity (which is lifelong and more specific and effective) to kick in and eliminate the virus. 

It is also true that the risk is actually more bias against the unvaxxed, Which is consistent with the message that the decision to relax measures only for vaxxed persons, is really to protect the unvaxxed who are more vulnerable, rather than to penalise them.

[4:07 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: Temasek Foundation should address the urgency needs to downing the price of ART KIT from now onwards to keep Government acknowledge ART PRICE was totally expensive instead calling us to register for Gargle mouth wash

It's was embarrassed to heard that ,

As Singaporean I wish the Government to be Caring & effectively one 

Not just telling us , we are doing well in the middle path of road for Covid Recovery 

What we see now ,The Danish health authority reveal Singapore Covid protocol

Another hiccup for recovery

[4:08 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: time for B-cell T-cell

[4:10 pm, 15/11/2021] +Joseph: 1 is preventive, the other is a diagnostic tool. Both are important

[4:17 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: Maybe next time ,

Temasek Foundation can provide us Cough Mixture  & Paracetamol as well Medicated Oilment last but not least  painkillers plaster & hand-plaster as well

Why not First-Aid Box for all unit Families

More meaningful

Sending to us as soon as possible👍👍

[4:36 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Yes, giving us more ART kits wud be better.

[4:42 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: Long hours of mask wearing will caused bad breath - maybe that is why

[4:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: I 男子汉 may have bad breath , which I not realise😅😅

Maybe Ladies needs more then guy 

👍👍

[4:47 pm, 15/11/2021] +Caleb: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-self-testing-outside-of-work-medical-reasons-not-the-norm-say-singaporeans

When asked about the difference in behaviour, experts said that one reason Singaporeans do not regularly self-test could be that ART kits here are "affordable but not cheap".

[4:52 pm, 15/11/2021] +Anthony: $10 ART KIT = 1 Meal For High -Income ,2 Meals For Medium-Income 3 Or 4 Meals For Lower-Income 

That's a problem

Government needs to address this issue asap

[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Appropriate subsidy must come into play

[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree. ART should be max $1 per kit.

[4:53 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: Totally agree

[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: they should cut down on plastic and sell cheap

[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Hear!  Hear! 

Gov,  Pls take note!

[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If not how to do regular testing if the kit price is so high? Even high income also will find it tedious. $10 × 4 per family for 1 day - gone

[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $40 gone for 1 day testing

[4:54 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: It is ridiculously exp.

[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +Vivian: and u must do it multiple times a week

[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: 😱agree! 

It's ridiculously high price to pay,  

Just to do what's right...

[4:55 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Not every family can afford.

[4:56 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Only millionaires can afford to do regular testing with $10 per kit

[4:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: Keeping everyone safe now is as important as having the Un-Vax to get vaccinated.  

Do not Neglect the general popn as a whole.  😃

[4:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If ART needs to regular test say once a week for all family members of 4 $40 per week, 1 month is $160. And if want to ramp up to test every 3 days, that will be $40 × (30 days / 3 days) = $40 × 10 times per month = $400 per month.

[4:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $160 is one month's worth of electricity and water bill

[4:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $400 is fees sending a child to childcare

[4:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: How many meals must a family of 4 sacrifice just to test ART?

[4:59 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: In current times,  tt is a lot of $$ to 'throw away' .

I can make my $10 last longer if I spend it on my daily meals and take my time to eat it...  Not throw away after a 20-minute test!

[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: $160 can buy 3 tins of milk powder. $400 can buy 2 cartons of diapers + 6 tins of milk powder.

[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Calculate like this can see how exp is ART - test and throw.

[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +RH: And my body is satisfied..  As it gets filled w daily sustenance. 

We can't eat an ART kit!

[5:00 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: 😂

[5:01 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: If $1 per kit, at least people more willing to test. $50 per month for family of 4 to test every 3 days.

[5:02 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Or less than $20 for a family of 4 to test every week

[5:42 pm, 15/11/2021] +Smiley face: Pfizer Covid-19 shot generated the most antibodies in a comparative study

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/pfizer-covid-19-shot-generated-the-most-antibodies-in-a-comparative-study

[6:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We’d love to hear more from you!

As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.

Megan 😊

[6:57 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: I guess to sum up..

Key message today is to Temasek/Govt, please consider more subsidies for ART kits, don't waste money on mouthwash with questionable effectiveness. 🙂

[6:58 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Yes

[7:06 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: 👉🏼 New ART kits for Covid-19 to cost 'well below' $10: Ong Ye Kung

https://str.sg/3GDS

👉🏼 New supply agreement inked with Pfizer for its Covid-19 vaccines for children

https://str.sg/3GDi

👉🏼 Groups of up to 5 from same household to dine in at hawker centres and coffee shops from end-Nov

https://str.sg/3GDU

👉🏼 72% reduction in Covid-19 infection risk for Moderna booster shot after Pfizer jabs, 62% after third Pfizer shot

https://str.sg/3GDw

👉🏼 Up to 21,000 migrant workers per week allowed to visit public places from Dec 3

https://str.sg/3GD3

👉🏼 S'pore to start VTLs with Indonesia and India from Nov 29, and with Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia from Dec 6

https://str.sg/3GDJ

[7:11 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Good that end Nov - coffee shops and hawker centre allow 5 dine in for same household.

But how does the coffeeshops and hawker centre verify 5 are from same household.

[7:14 pm, 15/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Also noted that the government has ink deal with Pfizer for children vaccines.

And also beginning to trial vaccination for children.

Look like large scale rollout will be done early next year.

[7:21 pm, 15/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I agree 👍

[7:23 pm, 15/11/2021] +Rama: Good question!?🤷‍♂️

[7:32 pm, 15/11/2021] +Smiley face: Hopes for VTL-like arrangement for land travel to Malaysia 'in a few weeks'

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/hopes-for-vtl-like-arrangement-for-causeway-travel-to-malaysia-in-a-few-weeks

[7:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: 👉🏼 Singapore's Covid-19 cases in ICU have dropped slightly but deaths yet to subside

https://str.sg/3GDm

👉🏼 S'pore cannot avoid making constant adjustments to Covid-19 measures: Lawrence Wong

https://str.sg/3GDW

👉🏼 Hopes for VTL-like arrangement for land travel to Malaysia 'in a few weeks'

https://str.sg/3GDM

[7:35 pm, 15/11/2021] +Dan: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/spore-makes-progress-in-war-on-diabetes-but-obesity-insufficient-physical-activity

I will like to talk on this matter. Personally, since covid in early 2020, my lifestyle has taken a drastic change. I used to play soccer with my friends. And only until recently, my friends and I had to stop soccer. Recently, with the recent changes to sports activities, we can start playing soccer in official fields (stadiums etc.) Instead of your usual kampong open field. Of cos to kickstart the activity will require some form of cajoling and coaxing, especially when some of the friends had hibernate at home for too long. (Which i highly suspect contributing to the increase numbers of obese people) 

Since CB, there were certain changes to my family, my daughter has to take her ballet lessons at home via zoom, i tried to do exercises (pilates, zumba, aerobics and skipping) with my children at home. Unfortunately that is also the beginning of my icy relationship with my neighbour downstairs. He tried to talk to me about the noise, and I try to keep it down, unfortunately he needs to WFH, my family need to exercise, therefore the conflict arises. So far govt has been rather silent abt these noise complaints that I saw posted on Complaint Singapore . I think its high time the leader speaks. Most of us live in apartments, I hope that Minister address to this issue soon. Today, I saw a piece of sad news that a father of a 3yr old kid was arrested for hitting his neighbour over noise. And that is just tip of an iceberg.

[7:41 pm, 15/11/2021] +BL: Thanks for sharing.  This is good news.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/new-supply-agreement-inked-with-pfizer-for-its-covid-19-vaccines-for-children

[7:43 pm, 15/11/2021] +JC: Agree. I play basketball and the enforcement measures basically killed the motivation among me and my friends from sports that is keeping us active in our middle age.

[7:46 pm, 15/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[7:48 pm, 15/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes, take the step to reduce to below $5 per test kit first, then reduce even more.

=====

REACH 292 -  What are your views on the eased restrictions, in particular, the dining in measures from two to five pax at F&B outlets only? (SK)

10 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:49 am, 10/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 10/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

At a press conference on 8 Nov, the Multi-Ministry Taskforce (MTF) announced that Singapore will carefully ease some COVID-19 measures, while continuing to protect the most vulnerable in our society from the risk of infection.  

💬 What are your views on the eased restrictions, in particular, the dining in measures from two to five pax at F&B outlets only?

From today:

➡️ Up to 5 fully vaccinated members of the same household will be allowed to dine out together at F&B establishments (except at hawker centres & coffee shops for time being).

➡️ Soft recorded music will be allowed at F&B outlets.

➡️  Secondary schools and secondary/senior sections of Special Education schools, Junior Colleges/Millennia Institute and Institutes of Higher Learning will be allowed to conduct masked activities in sub-groups of up to 5 persons. These educational institutes will also pilot the resumption of team sports formats to allow a group of up to 10 fully vaccinated persons to play together.

➡️ The Home Recovery Programme will be expanded by lowering the minimum age for default home recovery from 5 years to 3 years old. 

Other measures:

➡️  From 1 Dec, those medically ineligible to get vaccinated will get concessions from safe management measures after they are certified by a doctor. They will be able to dine at eateries, enter malls and participate in activities where vaccination-differentiated measures are required. 

➡️  From 8 Dec, COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice will have to foot their own medical bills. 

➡️Three new vaccinated travel lanes launched with Malaysia, Sweden and Finland.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/dine-in-pilot-to-allow-team-sports-for-fully-vaccinated-persons-from-nov-10

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-patients-who-choose-not-to-be-vaccinated-have-to-foot-own-medical-bills

👉https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spore-eases-border-measures-for-more-south-east-asian-countries-new-vtls-launched-with

[10:04 am, 10/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Good move to make the unvaccinated to foot the bills. 

I don't think taxpayers need to be burdened by their choice of not getting jabbed for the good of the nation.

[10:04 am, 10/11/2021] +Umar Mukhtar: Very worried that young kids are still defaulted for Home Recovery as I think they need closer monitoring when they're sick.

[10:20 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government meant to me was to serve every Singaporean 

I believe that is a group of people may still worry of the consequences after getting the Jab & some group of people stIl unable to see the benefits of the Jab, some  may have mental issue hardly to go for doctotr Consultation before heading for Jab

I believe this is an Society or Community's issue. Needs Government be careful & fully look at it with Grace.

However ,the role of Singapore Government under Covid period is getting more punishment to people

It seems like Father Caning his Kids more & more frequently

Which is this Country getting more act like punishment people then listening & understand ones

Which makes me worried  regards on every issue related to Singaporean & Government Decision.

[10:33 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: The previous week & times question given by Reach ,

Government haven't act on it 

Like ART KIT Expensive pricing in the market

MOH pls response & act quickly given the trust of every Singaporean

[10:45 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government or MOH Knowing to set up time & dateline to punish the ones without getting Jab to paying recovery bil

But Government or MOH dosent care the market pricing , Which Singaporean asking the Government or MOH lowering down our ART KIT pricing to become Cheap & Affordable

But they dosent act at all over the past months🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[10:50 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Is it fair that a small group of people who are worried - for mostly unfounded reasons - continue to hold the rest of the country/society hostage?

Was the G/MOH not been overly generous since the pandemic broke? Free vaccination, resources poured into contact tracing tools, procedures, personnel, education through media campaigns, grassroots movements etc, balancing between enabling the economy and businesses ie. livelihood to resume while protecting the vulnerable (many of whom are the stubbornly misinformed group that you speak of, who are "worried" about the vax). How long more and how much more do you expect the Govt and everyone else to do/wait until these fools "wake up"? 

How long more are we expected to be patient and continue to be held hostage by them? 

Remember that the rest (almost 90%) who took the vaccination, are also at least slightly afraid that it will do our body harm. We are also afraid when we take the jab, that something might go wrong. But we did it anyway, because we recognise that if we don't, everyone will be held back.

Govt's decision to make these stubborn fools pay for their own medical care is the right move. My only complain is that they only did now instead of from the very beginning! 

You want to make a point, then put your money (and your health) where your mouth is ... like the rest of us!

[10:51 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I will be going for my booster jab this week.

[10:52 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U just another chap without a heart of it in hokkien 黑心肝 F+++ off

[10:55 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U don't have to response me, but I want the Government or MOH to response only & the rest can discuss with me

Except U Chxx Xyx

[10:55 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Overall good progress. Very keen to see under 12s vaccinated and to see them playing sport together soon as possible. Gov taking good steps to open up lives. Very fair to charge those who don't want to be vaccinated by choice. Very fair to provide support for those who cannot be vaccinated due to health conditions

[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U die or not alive from other part if the world ,dosent bother me at all

[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The household only dining is a bit odd, since we can still go to each others house to eat in groups, why not in a restaurant?

[10:56 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes me too next week.

[10:57 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Don't understand what you are saying. Use Mandarin. I can read that too. Or voice, in Hokkien. Also can

[10:58 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: It's alright  U not as good as me

[10:58 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Boosters will see Covid ‘fade into the background’, says Oxford scientist.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/boosters-see-covid-fade-background-075508675.html

[10:59 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: U just another fool to me

[11:00 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-singapore-showing-the-world-what-a-covid-19-endgame-looks-like?source=articles&via=rss

This Is What a COVID Endgame Looks Like

David Axe.

Singapore may be showing us the surprising way the pandemic could end in certain countries.

Singapore "Middle Path" showing the way to endemic.

[11:01 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When you are so intelligent/brilliant, caring and articulate... not many can compare to you. I can understand why I will appear a fool to you or great, mighty, wise one 😂😂😂😂😂

[11:01 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Anyway, I said what I need to say. Also no time to talk rubbish with stubborn old fools

[11:03 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I have 1%per cent mother Teresa kindness & generosity ,

However U not qualified

[11:05 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Idiot always act like a fool

Which is U

[11:06 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Yesterday went to 2 food court and ask whether 10 Nov, can 5 persons of same household dine in.

2. One food court say, 5 dine in only at restaurants.

3. 2nd food court say 5 persons of same household can dine in but must be same address.

Then I ask will you all check the IC to verify same address?

They say let SDA check, they won't check.

4. So now a bit confusing, can food court allow 5 persons of same household dine in or not leh?

[11:10 am, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Government should help to regulate not only the prices and charges of ART-KIT, also PCR swab test too. PCR in airport for arriving Sporeans and other travellers are $160, pre-departure swab test can be as expensive as $200. Below $100 should be most reasonable, 50-80 would be reasonable I think.

[11:12 am, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: I also don't understand how you allow restaurant but not hawker center. Maybe it's gradual opening

[11:14 am, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hawker centre I can understand - because cannot check.

Food court, all entry check for vaccinated status - so just like restaurant.

But as food court is not explicitly stated, now food court also get confused - whether can 5 persons in same household dine in or not.

Some say can, some say cannot.

Now all confused.

[11:15 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Agree that the ART kits could be made more affordable for people who are required/mandated to perform regular testing due to the work they do. Maybe apply income/means testing to determine subsidy level?

Do not agree on subsidising PCR testing at airports for travellers regardless of Nationality. If you can afford to travel, you can afford to pay for the tests to keep everyone else safe.

[11:16 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: +1

[11:17 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government or MOH Knowing to set up time & dateline to punish the ones without getting Jab to paying recovery bil

But Government or MOH dosent care the market pricing , Which Singaporean asking the Government or MOH lowering down our ART KIT pricing to become Cheap & Affordable

But they dosent act at all over the past months🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[11:20 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I waiting & waiting 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[11:21 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: My feedback is that these measures are a step in the right direction but we should reopen even faster and allow social gatherings of 5 pax or outdoor group sports/recreation activity sooner rather than later. 

With the many VTLs and loosening of restrictions in schools etc there's not much point in maintaining some of the other restrictions. The virus will become endemic and widespread in our community but we r protected by vax immunity.

[11:21 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Singaporean waiting the price to go down sharply for the ART KIT

[11:22 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Hard to monitor I guess

[11:23 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: So only rich should be allowed to see their families after 2 years?

[11:24 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes, especially with more ICU coming if needed. I'm OK with cautious though, but not for too long please.

[11:24 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Getting unvax by choice to pay is a great idea. Well done. 👍 Should have been implemented much earlier.

[11:25 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Yes, it was suggested here months ago! Had to wait for sinovac to be available I guess.

[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +Rama: Singapore's three "brakes" to stop Covid-19 from hurtling out of control

SINGAPORE - If Singapore's battle with Covid-19 can be compared to a bicycle rolling downhill, the country's extensive rules are brakes to prevent the ride from hurtling out of control."We have been careful in putting together this package of adjustments, which we hope would be meaningful for families to dine together, as well as for sports, school life and other activities to resume - all this, while keeping risks under control," said Finance Minister Lawrence Wong, who co-chairs the task force along with Mr Ong and Trade and Industry Minister Gan Kim Yong.

https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/7774776?media_type=1&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp

[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Agreed

[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Not really. They are the most resilient.

[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: 👍

[11:26 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: With regards to making COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice foot their own medical bills, I think G/MOH should go a step further and make sure to place them on the lowest priority when it comes to receiving medical care.

Many of these people justify their selfish decisions with irrational arguments. Some berate people who decide to vaccinate. Many even claim that they would rather take their chances with the virus than the vaccine. Just have to observe the conversations/comments in the various forums.  

Well, I say let them put their health where their mouth is.

[11:27 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Good to see ART now accepted.

[11:30 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: How "poor: are these people you speak of who can afford a plane ticket, but not the $160 fee? 😳

[11:30 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: 流浪汉 infected Covid 

,who going to pay his bil 

No job No family

Social problem

[11:31 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yep. My unvax relatives trusted China based fake news on internet and rather take TCM if sick. 

I agree no need to prioritize them. They know e risks, but choose to take it. Just let them stay home take their TCM

[11:32 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Well a family of 4 equal $600, on top of flights etc

[11:32 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: There wil be a group of people who may lives in our neighborhood ,slept one corner to another

If they fall sick to Covid 

Are Government going charge them🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[11:35 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually if they homeless and no money, the govt can't charge them one. Only charge on paper and write off as bad debt.

[11:36 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: So, factor that into the budget. Can't expect Govt to do the financial planning for everyone. 😂

Or... someone can start a company/business, apply for the relevant license, employ the right staff and compete with Raffles Medical Group to provide the testing at $50 (as someone suggested)... or maybe even for free.

[11:37 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Government can only charging this group of people , Who's already acknowledge of the Covid 19 in Singapore for years now

Like wealthy income level can afford to pay the bill

Then I said should be ok 

Government & MOH can charging this individual

[11:40 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Also makes you wonder if the G/MOH offered these homeless 流浪汉 free vaccination like the rest of us.

Did he refuse? Why?

Nowadays so many social/charitiable movements/groups...no one tried to reach out? So someone saw this 流浪汉 but didn't offer to help them get help? 😂

Got so much time to think up all the worst case scenarios, but no time to do the real work or factcheck themselves 🙄

[11:40 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The earlier person was just suggesting it could be done cheaper. In France it was about $80.

[11:41 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: You often suggest people start up a business instead of asking suggestions or putting forward requests. Why is that? This is a forum for discussion not an entrepreneurs expo.

[11:42 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Apparently .... France is also among the European countries which impose the heaviest tax burden on high earners. The top rate of income tax including surcharges is 51.5 percent for 2021, putting France in sixth place, behind Denmark, Greece, Belgium, Portugal and Sweden. 👈 This came up top of my google search result when i searched for "income tax France"

[11:43 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: I forgive the nasty fool without a heart 🤣🤣

[11:43 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: How is that related? The tests are done by private labs.

[11:44 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually it's very sad one. Not everyone has a strong desire to live. Esp if life circumstances r bad or nothing to look forward to. Some elderly r like that too.

But they r e small minority at this point.

Maybe the right way is to charge if they want ICU but if they don't mind subsidized bed in C ward or comms hospital and take their chances there....

[11:45 am, 10/11/2021] +Anthony: Have a heart ,Bravo👍👍

[11:48 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Because that is the best way for them/you to find test out if their/your hypothesis/suggestion of offering the same product/service at a lower price is feasible. 

The best way to answer such questions is to walk a day in those shoes.

Who knows, they/you may be right. Maybe charging $50 for the PCR test will still net a huge profit. Then they/you will make millions....and you can thank me later for that 😂

[11:49 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: But not many unvax r like that la. Many unvax r by choice and not homeless. They just believe fake news.

[11:49 am, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: These r the ones govt shd smack on the head.

[11:50 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Your thought process is not compatible with a discussion forum. You are suggesting spending a day running research and feasibility studies before making requests or suggestions.

[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: The point is that it shouldn't net a big profit.

[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Just comparing Apples with Oranges .. like what you were doing... similarly fruits, but yet not exactly the same thing at the same time

[11:51 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Health crises are not there to exploit and make money from.

[11:52 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Tests in Singapore are $160 same test in France is $80.  Just asking why. Maybe the mentality here is to make a big profit from it. If so, that is wrong

[11:53 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: Apples would be PCR test, Orange would be Botox.

[11:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Without having full knowledge of the operational and pricing mechanism, I can't confidently explain why it is $160 and not $50 (or $300?). So, I suggest the person who is challenging the pricing, might be convinced if he/she wants to know for sure, that he/she is not being ripped off. Not me. I was not the one who asked for the price to be lowered. If I want a product/service/travel, I find out the price. If I agree, I pay. If not, I walk away.

[11:56 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: why not?

[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Last I checked, it is not run by a Charity

[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: I don't think anytime was asking you personally. Maybe no need to reply if you don't have a helpful and knowledgeable contribution to make?

[11:57 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: It's about not making a profit from a public health crises. Not charity either. Just 'at cost'.

[11:59 am, 10/11/2021] +BL: When companies are incentivized to make profit from natural disasters, they are not motivated to help avoid and resolve them.

[0:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: No one is saying they should lose money either!

[0:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Apples would be "PCR test in Singapore", Oranges would be "PCR test in France"

PCR tests are not standard/uniform. There is more than 1 standard test. A bit like a Business degree from NUS versus one from Universiti Malaya ... the way the test is conducted, results obtained etc etc  ... all makes a difference\

[0:01 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: I'll have had many tests and they were all fortunately conducted and treated the same way, so we get reliable results. If everyone does then differently we might not.

[0:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: It's nothing like University degrees!!

[0:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Anyway, no offence but I think this is a fruitless conversation. Lol

[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Wow.. I saw what you did there with the pun ... sweet! 😂

[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Thank you 😁

[0:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Travelling is optional

[0:09 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Not defending the Pharmaceutical companies or anything. but of the billions invested into R&D of thousands of drugs/therapy .. only a very small percentage make it to market and even fewer are blockbusters that pay for the failed experiments. 

That is how the industry survives. It is also why, there are many diseases today, that are without treatment - because it is not commercially viable - and Charities like the Bill Gates Foundation (or sometimes Govt?) needs to step in to fill the void.

I am not an expert...but I have read some literature on this topic in the past and found the arguments/rationales persuasive/reasonable.

[0:10 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Technology has made business travel less necessary, especially if operational meetings can be conducted online.  It is only necessary when a physical presence is vital to the success of that activity.

[0:12 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: The other plus side of unnecessary business travel is that air travel is reduced which means a lower carbon footprint.

[0:13 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: +1

[0:14 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actually it's the same for any industry. If U artificially force the price down, u will just have less producers cos it's not as profitable anymore. 

And today, we need more ART producers, not less...

[0:16 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: We were exploring why Singapore is twice the cost of France for a PCR test.

[0:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Cost to govt or cost to patients?

[0:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Agreed. This came up regarding reuniting families after 2 years being apart, and that a $160 PCR test is expensive. I see that ART is now accepted,  so perhaps not relevant anymore.

[0:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +BL: Patients

[0:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Ah then gotta check level of govt subsidies. Our govt usually quite careful with subsidies. Europe is different system, govt pays for most of healthcare.

[0:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Actual selling cost of e test from manufacturer to govt is not that different. Maybe only difference might b bulk discount cos France is much bigger country.

[0:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Anyway, my point is not about whether the profit margin is justifiable. My point is that given that there are still risks from the Pandemic, especially with air travel, I am not against some additional disincentives to discourage unnecessary travel. 

Besides, everyone will have their own preferred price.... someone else would say $80 is still too expensive... why not free 😂

[0:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Dan: Efficacy of vaccination decrease at an average of 6% every 2 months, there will be a time when having 2 vaccinations doesn't mean u r fully vaccinated. What is the G gg to do when most of the Singaporeans wears off the vaccination effective period?

[0:22 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Give out pills. From Pfizer I think. 😬

[0:23 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-antiviral-pill-could-be-available-early-in-2022-if-approved-12464491

[1:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When we are in Endemic stage, i think it’s only fair that we be responsible for the cost of our own health/vax requirements. 

I imagine G/MOH role will be to make it accessible to the general public. Usually Govt hospitals being large buyers, will have some bargaining power in terms of pricing. That in turn will influence prices in the private healthcare sector.

[1:06 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: It will expire?

https://sso.agc.gov.sg/SL/IDA1976-S273-2021?DocDate=20211012&ProvIds=Sc1-XX-Sc1-#Sc1-XX-Sc1

[1:08 pm, 10/11/2021] +Poh S. Lim: Anti-viral pills for Covid19 is a great scientific advancement. It takes away the anxiety of shots, and can be applied more widely.

[1:17 pm, 10/11/2021] +Dan: My point is it gives a false sense of security when we still check full vaccination for entering malls and restaurants. When in fact, the vaccination efficacy alr worn off.

[1:18 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: The website says it will expire in 1 year?

Not sure if I understand correctly

[1:26 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Do u know tat there r people given a choice, may not even wanna travel? I m referring to those who have to work overseas, it's not about intermittent travels for business trips since nowadays zoom meetings can supercede that.

[1:31 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Just some feedbacks. Seniors are sharing those who wants to work at polyclinics as poly customers service agents are not welcomed because of their age. The resident specifically shared that they tend to employ a certain Foreign Talent who are good at customer service but lack the ability to speak the  dialects. Maybe the needful agency wants to check if there is fair hiring 🙏❤️

[1:31 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: B-cell immunity (gained from vaccinations) tend to wane over time. The "decay" varies as well. The advantage is that it activates quickly.

T-cell immunity is lifelong. This can only be gained when our own immune system is triggered/activated when it encounters the virus. The downside of T-cell immunity is that it tends to be slow to activate and it is only works against the specific virus. Mutation of the virus will result in our T-cells not being able to recognise and fight it.

That is why we need both the vaccination to trigger the quick response defense, and eventually to encounter/catch the CV19 virus (hopefully we are otherwise healthy when that happens) in order to trigger the slower responding, but lifelong, defense against it.

[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Rama: What excuse is the employer giving for this discrimination prejudice!?

[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: How about get the inactivated virus vaccines like SINOVAC or SINOPHARM?

[1:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I am not a medical expert. This is just my own understanding of how it works based on what I had read about immunity/vaccinations. Layman level knowledge only

[1:34 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I had wondered about that too.. but apparently, it is not as effective since the vaccine is based on the inactivated virus. We need to face the "full strength" virus to build the stronger response,

[1:35 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Facing the CV19 face on without being vaccinated first increases the risk of falling seriously ill

[1:36 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Sorry, tat was not the point. If base on ur reasoning, for example, dun say rich people, just someone who can afford a bowl of laksa for $5/-, will it be reasonable to pay an additional $3 for tabao? I m sure if can afford $5 a bowl of laksa, sure can afford $3 for tabao materials!  There is correlation to the issue about charging $160 to $200 PCR test compared to an air ticket or to the magnitude of wealth.

[1:40 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: how CV19 defers from the common flu (although they are similar) is that the common flu is "designed" to be more effective against our UPPER respiratory tract. Hence, the sore throat, stuffy /runny nose etc. 

CV19 attacks our LOWER respiratory tract ie. closer to the lungs. The resulting inflammation and byproduct of fighting the invasion results in compromised lung capacity and function. This can cause a sudden deterioration of the patient and is why it can be more deadly compared to the common flu.

Again ... my layman understanding based on what I have read from various sources... please do not take as medical advise/truth without doing own fact-checking 😅

[1:42 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: $5 laksa, $3 tabao .. are you saying PCR $160, Air Ticket 5/3 x $160 = $267?

[1:44 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: By the way, Food is a necessity for everyone, Air Travel probably not ...  or at most, is necessary only for some

[1:46 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: If u have a chance to go to china during this pandemic for valid reasons, all PCR and serology tests are done free to both Chinese Nationals and foreigners coming in from overseas.  Of course during the quarantine period, one has to do about 4-6 swab tests.  I din expect PCR tests to be free in spore, but for every trip two-way trip, it will cost approximately $500-$600 in total.

[1:50 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: And strict quarantine in their assigned hotels with no possibility of leaving the room .. full on "imprisonment" for 21 days if I am not wrong 😅  I will gladly pay $160 instead 😅

[1:51 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Just wondering, when people ask that the Govt foot the bill or make something free ... do they know who eventually will have to pay for it? 😅

[1:51 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Tats if u have a choice.

[1:52 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Did anyone ask for the Govt to foot the bill? Hmmm ...,

[1:52 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Great assumptions

[1:53 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Yup. No choice in China's case.. what I meant is as a traveler...  that will be part of my consideration.

[1:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: A lot of people say make it free, or make it cheaper .... who else are they asking if not hte Govt... because there are only 2 payees here ... people or Govt .. .unless you are saying the Corporation .. then I am almost certain that if that were the case, the Corporation will just say, "ok, then I won't sell you the product" 😅

[1:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: I m just sharing my experiences and felt that swab test charges seem to be quite expensive in Singapore, that's all, of course as compared to many countries.

[1:58 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Don't mean to be argumentative, but you did feedback that our current charges is too high and that it should be lowered.

[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Yes, I did.

[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Franco: Anyway, life goes on....

[2:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: In general, for both ART and PCR, it's not unaffordable (i.e. really no money to pay(

It's just that SGreans don't enjoy paying for something new, and not required compared to the past. So understandable to complain la.

Maybe just see it like an airport tax. Suck thumb and move along.

[2:01 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: I am saying no need to lower the price .. especially (and in case) the Govt has to subsidise something non-essential in my opinion

[2:02 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Sometimes e same people who complain also happen to have e latest iphone. 🤷‍♂️

[2:03 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Singaporeans mostly want others - usually Govt -  to pay for them 😂  Maybe because they feel that they are paying a lot in taxes and/or that our Ministers are overpaid and somehow that equates to Govt should make everything else cheap for them/us (since we already pay for the most "expensive" Ministers in the World)  😂😂😂

[2:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: 😂

[2:06 pm, 10/11/2021] +John Cheong: Govt shd subsidize if it's part of a larger containment strategy - like ARTs... Which have been given out free. Elective travel is really individual choice la. Self pay is fair.

[3:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: As self-test has become the norm,  it wud only be logical to make them affordable and easily accessible to the masses. 

Is ther a need to subsidise?  Ultimately, let's not forget  ... Everyone here is a taxpayer in one way or other. 

Rather, ramp up the supply, lower the price, restrict hoarding, so tt everyone can do their part to be socially responsible. 

As for PCR tests...  If one can afford to travel,  one shd be able to put up w whatever is reqd...  Of course, if it's possible to lower the price of the PCR test,  then tt wud be good. 

For me, I'm in no hurry to travel altho I do miss it. But keeping safe is my no. 1 option so restricting some social pleasures for now is fine w me. 

For me, the "high" cost of the PCR test acts as a deterrent for me…

[3:20 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Again...  Gov / MOH / MMTF... 

Pls look into making the ART kits more affordable! 😳

[3:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1 i have brought this suggestion up before as well.

[3:23 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: MOH / MTF... 

Pls clarify. 

I m now utterly confounded by this dining number restriction thing. 

So,  is it 2, or is it 5?

Restaurant only or restaurant + indoor food court (in mall)? 

Or is it non air-con (standalone)  food court also counted? 

I m lost w the new rules on dining!

[3:30 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: superman or superwoman if survive

[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: maybe they want more active citizens to voice it out haha

[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: active participation

[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: my answer is depends, let the SMM decide haha

[3:32 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: maybe instruction is ambiguous because there are so much permutations

[3:36 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: And wat abt children of various age grps?  

The directive is very confusing. 

Perhaps, MTF can gv some illustrative examples to accompany their new directive... 

Like... 

Restaurants, 

Add...  "refers to / includes" 

cafes,  food courts  (enclosed / air-con) dining spaces

Like... 

Add "includes / excludes" 

Vaccinated children from ?  to ? yo

Children of ? yo 

and so on. 

Or 

2 Vacc Adults + 1 child <12  allowed  

..... 

👆🏻this cud make it easier for even the not so educated to understand.

[3:39 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Agree. 

Maybe take 2-3 'common' permutations of average households dining out?

[4:29 pm, 10/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

F&B outlets should check address on NRIC, Singpass for dine-in groups larger than 2, say authorities.                                                                                                                                         https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dine-same-household-check-proof-residence-restaurants-2303116

[4:37 pm, 10/11/2021] +linyuxiang: pov of a student: tbh, it is still a high risk for families to dine out with cases remaining stable at 3000  a day. Despite looking at the transmission rate, i would rather go full on for the remaining period considering we are used to these measures for a month alrdy.

[4:38 pm, 10/11/2021] +linyuxiang: Get ready for an uptick in case numbers from nxt week onwards which will bring us back to square one again

[5:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree

[5:05 pm, 10/11/2021] +Caleb: I guess default WFH should be until next year

[5:11 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Seniors are sharing those who wants to work at polyclinics as poly customers service agents are not welcomed because of their age

>> Is this a fact? ie. the polyclinic revealed that as the reason for not hiring the person; or is this an opinion/conjecture because the applicant feels/thinks he/she is 100% qualified for the job in every other aspect. Which makes me wonder, what kind of attitude these "seniors" would have presented/revealed during the interview/hiring process 😅

The resident specifically shared that they tend to employ a certain Foreign Talent who are good at customer service but lack the ability to speak the  dialects

Was the polyclinic hiring a translator or a customer service exec? Is it possible that the hiring Mgr is prioritising "good …

[5:11 pm, 10/11/2021] +Ken Loh: Expected I guess

[5:15 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: The stance of having people (unvax) to pay for hosp bills if they are infected with covid is a wrong and unethical move. The vaccines are NOT approved yet and are under sg equivalent of an "EUA". This is the reason why vaccines are not mandated. If so, why adopt such coercive measures towards the unvaccinated? Many doctors, scientists and even frontline workers are unvaxed in the world. Why would not taking vaccination for fear of health reasons be bad when it is a choice of people to take ownership of their lives and health. Hospitalisation subsidies etc is a PUBLIC good paid for by ALL taxpayers. And unvax people are also taxpayers. Many of these could be old and belong to the pioneer generations who have sacrificed for sg.

[5:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: "Scientists keep getting Covid-19 predictions wrong: Here's why, Health News & Top Stories - The Straits Times" https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/scientists-keep-getting-covid-19-predictions-wrong-heres-why

[5:19 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: New Covid-19 dining-in rule draws families, but some groups are turned away for not meeting criteria

Some families took the opportunity to eat together in restaurants as the new dining-in rule for households kicked in on Wednesday (Nov 10).

More https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/new-covid-19-dining-in-rule-draws-families-but-some-groups-turned-away-for-not

[5:21 pm, 10/11/2021] +Thomas: There are societal and economic cost to country due to hindrance of this minority. It is a mistaken stance that since they pay tax, they should get the benefits. But who pays for the economic cost while majority of population follows the instruction.

[5:25 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: Don't blame them. Israel had onenof the highest percentage if vaxed and yet they had an eruption in covid cases until the boosters came. The fact is that vaccines last for 2 to 3 months (high efficacy) and then start waning. If vax n boosters are the way to go, then we would need to boost multiple times a year. Every booster by itself is an eua, meaning that it is itself a risk. We are behaving as if boosters have no risks to people.

[5:43 pm, 10/11/2021] +N: The time to be worried is now. Because not just the measures are eased, the tracing and recovery protocols are eased. The risk for the average person on the street is higher, not lower.

[5:45 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: When will your kind learn that the argument that just because vaxxed persons can still get infected by CV19 shows that the vax is not effective is nonsense?

Vaccinations do not prevent you from falling sick, What it does, is (1) boost our immunity and defense against falling sick and (2) if/when the virus does break through our defenses, hopefully, with the help of the vax, we do not get as ill and recover faster.

Throughout human and medical history, regular vaccinations to supplement/boost the efficacy of earlier vaccinations is common. Rather than believe in nonsense conspiracy theories, do spend some time learning and catching up on FACTS. 

Just remember... there is a very very very obvious reason why you and I are not doctors, specialists or scientis…

[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: I'm a ptoud singaporean contributing to REACH. I have no idea what you mean by my kind.

[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +jimmy chew: The ultimate vax is getting COVID-19 and survive 🤣🤣🤣

[5:55 pm, 10/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree

[5:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: the kind who does not believe in Science

[5:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Chooses to believe in some unverified nonsense from some made up profile/person

[5:59 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes it is. But our own immune response does not react fast enough to counter the rate of infection of the CV19 virus...hence the need for the vaccine as a first line of defense while our immune system responds to the invading virus

[5:59 pm, 10/11/2021] +Joseph: This is not a new/novel idea... that is how ALL vaccines work

[6:04 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: MOH has just started this new series: Doctor Explains, where we have our healthcare experts answer popular questions on COVID-19 matters. 

1️⃣: Common questions about COVID-19 vaccination

FB: https://www.facebook.com/sghealthministry/videos/3067765970157968

IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/CV156UeF-Aq/

YT: https://youtu.be/0OKTQ5Gad54

2️⃣: Vaccination for Pregnant Women

FB: https://www.facebook.com/sghealthministry/videos/3027774440886164

IG: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWAMKYSFsgx/

YT: https://youtu.be/CLVPDWR6Sco

[6:46 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[6:56 pm, 10/11/2021] +Jamie Bethany Koh: My input is 

- for 5 to dine together must have same address on their ic?

- is a lot more work and checks for f&b establishments to do

[6:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +RH: Like I said earlier... 

Pls make the new rules clearer..  w pictorials 

Or a video?

[6:57 pm, 10/11/2021] +Jamie Bethany Koh: Apologies if this has been raised earlier

[6:58 pm, 10/11/2021] +Rama: Agree

[7:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +Smiley Face: 10 November, 2021

To: Distinguished Ministers and All Honorable Members 

Lao Tzu:

Those who know don't talk.

Those who talk don't know.

Be like the Tao.

It can't be approached or withdrawn from, benefited or harmed, 

honored or brought into disgrace. 

It gives itself up continually. 

That is why it endures. 

The more prohibitions you have, 

the less virtuous people will be. 

The more weapons you have, 

the less secure people will be. 

The more subsidies you have, 

the less self-reliant people will be.  

For governing a country well

there is nothing better than moderation. 

The mark of a moderate man

is freedom from his own ideas. 

Tolerant like the sky, 

all-prevailing like sunlight, 

firm like a mountain, 

supple like a tree in the wind, 

he has no destination in view 

and makes use of anything 

life happens to bring his way. 

Nothing is impossible for him. 

Because he has let go, 

he can care for the people's welfare 

as a mother cares for her child. 

News:

New Covid-19 dining-in rule draws families, but some groups are turned away for not meeting criteria

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/new-covid-19-dining-in-rule-draws-families-but-some-groups-turned-away-for-not

[7:00 pm, 10/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====

REACH 291 - What are your thoughts on the renewed efforts to reinforce healthcare capacity and recognise the contributions of healthcare workers? How can we better support our healthcare system and medical professionals during this time? (SK)

08 Nov 2021 (10am - 7pm)

REACH

[9:51 am, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 10.00am to 7pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all.

Please be assured that the points made by participants during the chat are aggregated and shared with relevant agencies.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Thank you

Megan 😊

[10:00 am, 08/11/2021] +REACH: 📢 Topic 📢 

There are now more than 2,300 beds across 17 sites to cater for higher-risk Covid-19 patients who require close observation but are not so ill that they need to be hospitalised, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on 6 Nov (Sat).

These Covid-19 treatment facilities (CTFs) were set up over the past two months to reduce the load on public hospitals and take in more stable patients who need further monitoring, such as seniors who are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms but have chronic illnesses and are at risk of severe illness.

💬 What are your thoughts on the renewed efforts to reinforce healthcare capacity and recognise the contributions of healthcare workers? How can we better support our healthcare system and medical professionals during this time? 

There will be more than 3,000 beds from next week, with the new 721-bed facility at the F1 Pit Building starting operations on Nov 9. More of such facilities are in the pipeline. 

"We expect to add even more CTF capacity, reaching around 4,000 beds by the end of this month," Mr Ong said on Facebook.

The latest announcements come amid news that about 60 per cent of the 219 intensive care unit (ICU) beds reserved for Covid-19 patients are currently occupied, and around 1,500 healthcare workers resigned in the first half of this year.

Nursing students across Singapore are also being tapped to supplement the healthcare workforce, with their attachments with healthcare facilities, such as hospitals, extended or brought forward to an earlier date.

To further recognise the contributions of healthcare workers, about 100,000 public healthcare workers involved in the national response to the pandemic will receive a special award amounting to $4,000 each for their courage and invaluable work, Health Minister Ong Ye Kung said on 5 Nov (Fri).

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/2300-beds-set-up-at-17-facilities-in-spore-to-care-for-higher-risk-covid-19

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-treatment-facility-for-seniors-at-f1-pit-building-operational-from-nov-9

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/authorities-tapping-nursing-students-across-singapore-to-supplement-weary

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/hospitals-in-spore-find-ways-to-lighten-nurses-load-to-manage-staff-shortage

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/100000-public-healthcare-workers-involved-in-covid-19-fight-to-get-4000-each

------

[10:11 am, 08/11/2021] +DC: Fully support the new measures. I know the gov is trying to adopt a calibrated approach. But even more beds should be built. Cos this virus is still evolving and we will never know.

Also, while it is good to involve student nurses in this trying times, it is important to take care of the safety and health of these students. 2nd,if we have outbreaks in hospitals, this would surely spread in the local households (of these student nurses) and vive versa. We may want to take precautions and put immediate family members of medical professionals under early surveillance for covid.

[10:40 am, 08/11/2021] +65 9753 5838: This can only be a short term measure. How do build a sustainable nursing team that could support our aging population and other medical needs? What is the right nurse to patient ratio in a standard C ward?

[10:46 am, 08/11/2021] +65 9777 0679: Increase pay loh.

[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Denmark natural immunity infection not very effective.

Resurgence of covid again.

http://www.news.cn/english/2021-10/21/c_1310258437.htm

[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Coronavirus in Norway: The Latest News on the COVID-19 Outbreak.

Norway natural infection immunity not working properly.

Like Denmark, covid resurgence again.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/coronavirus-in-norway/

[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

France's Macron to address the nation as COVID cases surge. 

"The epidemic is picking up speed again in Europe, Europe has again become the epicentre of the epidemic," Attal told reporters. 

Living with covid -  a free for all freedom relying on 2 jab high vaccination rate and natural infection disregarding social distancing is a big flop.   

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/frances-macron-address-nation-covid-cases-surge-2294676

[10:59 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Analysis: With boosters, masks and Green Pass, Israel sees a COVID-19 wave in retreat.

Only Israel 3rd booster jab show covid-19 Delta retreat.

Denmark and Norway natural infection immunity fail.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/with-boosters-masks-green-pass-israel-sees-covid-19-wave-retreat-2021-10-15/

 

 

[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Israel Rt < 1 - indicate Delta infected spread to less than 1 person - indicating 3rd booster shot has defeated Delta from spreading.

[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Conclusion:-

1. Israel 3 jabs is the only model that works against Delta covid pandemic.

As it produces a Superhuman Immunity = 2 jab vaccination immunity + 3rd jab booster vaccination immunity ---- Pass!

2. Denmark and Norway Superhuman Immunity = Natural infection immunity + 2 jabs vaccination immunity - fails.

 

[11:00 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Luckily, Singapore is adopting the Middle Path approach by ramping up 3rd jab booster in living with covid - and not prematurely declaring endemic with free for all freedom Day approach adopted by EU.

2. Else our infection number will hit the roof, overwhelming our hospitals and suffer large number of death.

[11:01 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore boy, 4, in ICU with rare case of COVID-linked inflammatory syndrome.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singapore-boy-icu-rare-inflammatory-syndrome-covid-misc-012751909.html

[11:01 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/children-covid19-multi-system-inflammatory-syndrome-4-cases-kkh-2295971

4 'rare' cases of multi-system inflammatory syndrome in kids found to date: MOH.

[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: And seems like these children seem mild or no symptoms but then the virus suddenly strike them worse.

[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Adrian: 1) it's good to ramp up facilities, but it's not sustainable to manage a greater number of facilities with the same amount of healthcare workers. Totally support the move to recognise them further 👍🏻

2) separately, these CTF facilities are also at huge cost to our govt budget. With the mainstreaming of HRP, hope the govt will continue to leverage home recovery, so we dont need to manage so many facilities (which also require healthcare workers to manage).

[11:06 am, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: That is why the younger children must be vaccinated. And why is the vaccination still not approved?

[11:08 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think government must hold the restrictions measures and not relax further.

Until children get their vaccination and the hospital number, death go down.

The weekly infection ratio go below 1 is not a good indicator - because many who test positive on their own is not reflected in the weekly ratio.

[11:10 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/europe-covid-19-cases-rising-grave-concern-who-2291326

Europe faces real threat of COVID-19 resurgence: WHO Europe head.

[11:10 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Britain allows early booking of COVID-19 booster shots to speed up roll out.                                https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-britain-booster-shots-allow-early-booking-speed-2295106

[11:13 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Ramping up booster shot to the larger population look like is the only way to defeat our current Delta wave - as proven by Israel scenario.

[11:25 am, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: Alamak , today my neighbour got drilling sia.

[11:25 am, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: maybe they shld not allow reno, when everyone is WFH

[11:27 am, 08/11/2021] +BL: Agreed

[11:37 am, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Our experts feel that we are not ready to relax restrictions measures.

[11:56 am, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, they always said 1-2 weeks of lower than 1 infection rate, or when icu % is better

[0:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: What's the hurry to relax the restrictions? I don't feel restricted now at all. Do you?

[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: WFH by default still place

[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: unless gov want to ICU to be full

[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: *WFH by default still please

[0:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: can open up group of up to maybe 4 pax per day?

[0:05 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Until our Booster shot roll out to the population.

Until we see the RT < 1 like Israel chart.

Until we see infection number drop like Israel chart.

Until we see hospitals number, ICU and death fall dramatically like Israel.

Then we are ready to relax restrictions measures.

Else we should stay status quo.

[0:11 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 except for boosters

[0:13 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Without booster and nudging unvaccinated to vaccinate - we will end up like Europe - up and down, up and down.

Only Israel 3 jab vaccination is the only  successful model in the world.

[0:13 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

It is math and science.

[0:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, can't see friends.

[0:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: My kid can't do his singing lessons, or play football

[0:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Many kids aren't attending school

[0:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: really?? thought schools are back

[0:19 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yep, my son class is 1/4 less than normal  his best friend been away for 3months

[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: When they cancelled the exams many parents didn't see the point of attending

[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Some concerned parents prefer to keep their unvax kids at hm,  for their safety.

[0:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yes, I guessed they aren't worried about traffic accidents only covid.

[0:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Best keep them at home for ever. Although not good for their health and well being.

[0:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Also school is miserable right now. No socialising at all. My kids hates it.

[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Oh!! I didn't know that! That might explain why I'm seeing a lot of kids in shopping centres even though it's still a school term. But that's also odd right, you pull the kids out of school cos scared covid, then you bring them to malls??

[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Yep, very odd.

[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: I also think, no exams = no school in some parents mind. After all, that's all they seem to do there

[0:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: 😆😆

[0:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Right on! Complaints, complaints. Restrictions too harsh. And yet, malls are packed. So, where are the restrictions again?

[0:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: No restrictions in malls for vax

[0:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: But there is more to life than malls.

[0:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Or maybe not right now, which is why they are packed!

[0:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Yah lor. Even the dining "restrictions" also weird. That artificial split into 2, but still ordering dishes for 4 and passing the dishes across tables. If anything, they should just release that part lah. The current lack of enforcement is making a mockery out of the rule anyway.

[0:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Besides ramping up beds & increasing measures on the healthcare front,  let's not forget the home front,  ie. 

* the individual's responsibility *

Other than observing the new regular SMM measures,  wat abt regular self-testing?

Make ART kits *cheaper !! 

If they can be available for less than $2  in Germany,  why does it cost 5x to 6x more here? 

For those of us who r reqd to self test regularly,  it gets really expensive to keep doing so,  even tho I know it's our responsibility to keep everyone,  incl ourselves,  safe. 

If u can make the ART kits cheaper,  ther wud be more incentive for the individual to do regular self testing as part of our 'daily lives' in living w CoVid. 

Dun forget to also ensure tt ther is either enuff supply or put a restriction on number of units one can buy,  when u bring the price down... 

Knowing SGreans,  ppl wl then become kiasu & start hoarding.  Then we're bk to square one...  When those of us who really need to use it,  can't get enuff stocks of it....  🤦🏼‍♀️

[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: As in the parents bringing young children to malls. If they're concerned about kids not being vaxxed and not sending them to school, then why is there no equal concern for kids not vaxxed, shoukding bring them out to go pah pah zao

[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Yes!! Make it cheaper!!!!

[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: +1

[0:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: This type of parents need their heads examined.  🤦🏼‍♀️

[0:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: *shouldn't bring. (typo)

[0:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: This type also sth wrong w their brains..   I hv seen parents pushing pram w very young babies,  like 18mo,  unmasked,  walking ard malls,  crossing roads,  happily enjoying life like 'normal'.

I guess they think tt since the 'new normal' is living W CoVid,  they may as well live w tt too!  

🤷‍♀️

[0:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +dot dot dot: Always Be Positive & Be Patient :-)

[0:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: On the flip side of the coin, we can't possibly be morose forever & live under this 'cloud' of rising infections & CoVid hanging over us.

[0:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: YAH!!! Exactly!! Or allowing their kids to do the half mask or chin mask like some stubborn uncles we see. Or kids mimicking the parents of pulling their masks down to cough then put back. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[0:37 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: +1

[0:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: It is 'amazing' to see how 'diverse' the human popn is.... 

Such socially irresponsible & selfish people..  ...

[0:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I was driving to Suntec last week and I saw this Caucasian family of 7 or 8, from the very young in pram to the old with white hair, ALL half mask/chin mask. Sigh...

[0:39 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: 😰 😔😔

[0:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Other than empowering the ordinary citizen with the power to enforce the proper masking rule,  wat else can we do? 

🤷‍♀️

It takes a lot of courage to walk up to these ppl to even ask them why they r behaving like this!

We run the risk of getting spit in the face!  🤦🏼‍♀️😰

[0:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: Nah, I just can't understand how we're almost 2 years in and there are people who still don't know how to wear mask properly or they just refuse to wear it properly.

[0:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: More likely the latter. 

They either just dun care any more or can't be bothered.

[1:07 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: After 2 months of discussed of ART stIl remain as expensive as it was , Government seems not care the people"s on the ground thoughts at all

How's Terrible🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[1:12 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: India and japan has gone down drastically without boosters.

[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 yes make it much much cheaper pls.

[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: ya lor, can Gov or retailers share why in SG, the ART kits are so expensive?

[1:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: Even CNA in Talking point also said in Germany, it is much cheaper then in SG

[1:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: True. I cannot find the courage to tell my neighbour who's an old. Senior to put on his masks. But again, he may have a condition.

Also, when u talk to them, u r increasing your exposure and risks. Better not.

[1:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I think pharma is generally ex in Singapore. Health supplements also. Eg Suisse, the price in SG is 4x the price in Australia even if you take into account exchange rate and courier shipping.

[1:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I know masks are uncomfortable, I get "maskne". But hey, guess what else is uncomfortable? Ventilators.....

[1:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: All these brands got to pay 40% or more to retailers watson, ntuc etc for shelf space. Buying online or generic brands is better. But in this case i want the hsa stamp of approval. So..... Yah. We need much cheaper kits. Regular testing in my mind is more important.

[1:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: online is also about the same price. https://www.lazada.sg//products/i1886455645-s10062873193.html?spm=a2o42.cart.0.0.56c27a93KN4Us8&urlFlag=true

[1:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: If you buy in bulk online, i saw some with $7-8 per piece.

[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: $7 per pc ... Still expensive. 

It has to be affordable , like $1-$2 per pc. 

Like tt,  selling them in bulk shd not be difficult. 

Only prob is Kiasu ppl who hoard without thinking abt those who really nd it,  to comply w work reqt,  wher we hv to pay for our own test kits.

[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: We can simply going to CC or RC to buy less cheaper price,

Why can't MOH to do it

They are able to set up more more BEDS in F1 Complex 

Why they dosent have the initiative to set up place such as CC & RC for us to buy Cheaper & Affordable ART kit

For low income families ,

Just compliment them for collection for free

At least doing ART Test becoming of daliy stuff to do so

[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心:

With many death, spike up and down like Europe.

I think Singapore don't want this

[1:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[1:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: Really? I didn't know it's cheaper at rc or cc. How much? Paiseh.

[1:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: ART cannot be expensive then our Mee Rebus or Chicken Rice

Otherwise hard to afford it meant less testing

As simple as that

[1:32 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: MOH should selling us Directly to public

 instead at Watson or Guardian or Unity

So the price can be cheaper & affordable

I suggest $1:50 the maximum selling price

Low income 10¢ compliment price

 

[1:32 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore don't want such high number of infection and death.

So 3rd booster shot is our answer.

[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I bet Singapore won't want to see this as what had happen to India.

[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: Dr Leoong hoe nam more test needed 

if we want to go back pre-covid time

[1:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree

[1:37 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Definitely Singapore don't want to go through what Japan has gone through.

[1:37 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 agree absolutely. Terrible waste of lives.

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: Already bring up that it should be max $1 per kit

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +XaniceAfcai: Not only to mall, i saw lot of kids and Caregiver in the park and neighbours playground. 🤔

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: A condition makes it more important to wear a mask!

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Japan hospitals have to let people die when hospitals are overwhelmed.

Singapore don't want to see this.

[1:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +Elena Woo: +1

[1:43 pm, 08/11/2021] +Anthony: That's why, Government know what we want to express ,

However Government not doing much enough

What can we do ahh🙅‍♂️🙅‍♂️

[2:08 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/07/uk-government-could-restrict-travel-people-who-refuse-covid-boosters?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[2:08 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: We keep raising the topic until someone takes action. 

I'm sure ther r more groups of Reach feedback like this. 

If we can think of this to say, ther wl be others who r like-minded.

[2:10 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: At the start,  gov shd initiate & regulate, to prevent over hoarding,  then once things get gg, can lessen the control...  Sth like tt. 

Having them avail at same price at CC & RC is also a good idea.

[2:12 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Let's get the national popn used to doing self testing, as part of living w endemic,  like in Germany.

[2:14 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: The general healthy popn needs to maintain consistency in health too, 

Not just focussing on the infected (minority).

[2:17 pm, 08/11/2021] +jimmy chew: Yeah only $1.50

[3:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Life in Singapore has become bland and tasteless, like when you lose sense of smell/taste with COVID. Limited social interactions, continued WFH and other SMM continue to take an invisible toll on the schools, communities, people and businesses since no one is measuring its impact. Hospitals are already overwhelmed by people who aren't high risk but scared of dying. Numb to the situation, since government wants to achieve the lowest COVID death rate in the world - good for them - lets just keep the restrictions going for as long as needed for them to get their medal and everyone else pays the price. Good job.

[3:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Maybe we get FB to pilot their Metaverse in Singapore so we can start living in an alternate reality from home. Better than just binging Netflix.

[4:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: True - I found it very motivating and good for the soul to spend a month in Europe with no meaningful covid restrictions. If you are able to get out of SG for a bit of time, I highly recommend it. Much as I love our Country - it's small, sheltered, and limited place to be for nearly 2 years.

[4:14 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/europe-could-see-another-half-a-million-covid-19-deaths-by-february-who                                                                                                                   

Europe could see 'another half a million Covid-19 deaths' by February: WHO.

[4:14 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Maybe that's what our government has (knowingly or not) conditioned our people to become - scared, timid people accepting of our lot, content with the limitations imposed on us, no desire or energy to think harder, to try something different or out of the box.

[4:16 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think those who prefer Europe freedom life can move there - whether they are not afraid to risk their lives to covid.

As for Singapore, the government had done a good well balance job - securing our livelihood and our safety.

[4:16 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: just stay home and interact with Netflix, online friends and social media. Don't need to know new people, don't need real friends in real life. maybe that's good enough for us.

[4:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yes Danny, you are the type that like to chase people who disagree with you away. Just want to live your tiny little life in your safe bubble. Just because you know how to spam news article don't make your opinions more worthy or right.

[4:19 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I am very happy with what the government are doing.

So are many people.

[4:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Yes, so you guys can stay in your homes and stay safe. Don't stop people who want to live their lives from doing what they prefer.

[4:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Anyway I've given up on the MMTF. They have their considerations and probably need to hit their best-covid-death-rate KPI or whatever it is. Whatever we say here is useless.

[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The MTF and the PM have done an excellent job!

[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: ya of cos. perfect job. Best in the world.

[4:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: everyone's happy. No happier people.

[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Those people in Europe, Japan and US must be so envious of Singapore.

[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Of course economy GDP doing very well.

Death rate one if the Lowest in the world.

Got pay rise!

Excellent job.

[4:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: everyone must be rushing to come migrate to Singapore.

[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Frog in the well. Look up to the sky.

[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh yes you must be envious of Europe large number of death to covid.

[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh indeed many ultra rich are moving their fund and office to Singapore.

[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: See the reality genius

[4:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: 🤦‍♂️

[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: no wonder you like lockdown

[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: you just read the news, you don't talk to people do you? no friends?

[4:27 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: no social circles?

[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: enjoy your online chat with your billionaire friends who are moving to SG

[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: peace out ✌️

[4:28 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Almost every other day I move around Singapore and meet people.

Any one stop from meeting people?

[4:31 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some people here actually envy why Singapore don't follow Europe to clock more death!

Wow!

[4:32 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The Angel of Death.

[4:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: Heaven forbid! 

Being secluded & in a bubble for 2 years is bad enuff! 

Dun wanna live in a virtual world with no sense of reality & being disassociated from real life,  frens,  REAL environment  - all the sights,  sounds & smell of it!  

Can't wait for things to get better so tt I can travel worry -free again!  😉

[4:40 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm not following~ 

Land mass of europe 10.18 million square km. 

Land mass of Singapore 

728.6 square km. 

Why draw comparison Singapore vs Europe continent?

[4:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +RH: SG is small..  Gov doing good job so far...  Cos I won't be able to do better... 

It's hard to please everybody,  so based on tt,  I think the gov is on the right track ...

However,  like I said, it's time to turn ur attn to the majority, Dun neglect the rest of your children while u hv pd so much attn to the sickly. 

The rest of the general popn need looking into too...  

Make self testing the norm...  

Lower the prices of ART kits,  as a start.  

Continue w home flw up for those on home recovery. 

Blah blah  ..

[4:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: The seniors of my family are definitely suffering. While I worry abt their safety, they told me they are lonely. I'm torn actually~

[4:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Danny says if u let seniors who r staying by themselves be visited by grandkids, our covid death rates will be like Europe, Japan. Govt already doing great job don't complain.

[4:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: No just great job. The BEST in the world.

[4:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Envy of everyone else in the world.

[4:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Someone brought up the issue of ART being overpriced, we can agree that its definitely a necessity right now. Being priced at $8-10 is atrocious. Pls look into it.

[4:47 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Earlier, when Gov announced of the sale of test kit thru vending machines, I thought it will be cheaper.

[4:48 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Is it cheaper!?

[4:50 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Agree ART kits should b made cheaper thru subsidies. But it should be combined with loosening of SMM. There's no reason why people who r tested negative on ART should still b imposed restrictions.

[4:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Has to go in tandem but test kits price must be lowered.

[4:52 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Unfortunately MOH stop at dispensing ART kits for free to HRW patients and households, and not exploring sale of ART kits with vending machines.

[4:52 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Maybe not their job scope to manage sales.

[4:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Budget constraints I think . it's very expensive to provide to the whole population. They can't force the manufacturers to cut price tho cos then the manufacturers may not have the incentive to produce or sell to SG.

[4:55 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: thought got many incentive, so high prices in SG

[4:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: manufacturers are MNCs, they can sell to other places that are buying at higher prices.

[4:57 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: If govt force them to lower price.

[4:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Germany is low price to consumer because their govt subsidize the tests. they have universal coverage for their healthcare so their insurers/govt covers most of their healthcare costs.

[4:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: I guess high prices is because those made in Korea were fly in

[5:00 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/underpaid-and-overworked-malaysias-contract-doctors-revolt-amid-covid-19-surge

[5:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: As for today's topic, we are not the only facing manpower shortages.

[5:01 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: there's a baseline production cost and profit the manufacturers want... but if we want it to come down even more, then govt need to subsidize -> which is very high budget item for the govt. Plus larger countries like Germany can probably negotiate for larger bulk discounts. SG small.

[5:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: I am reading so many rants and disgruntled opinions but not many suggestions or solutions other than to open up and lift restrictions. 

As usual, the loudest voices are from those who have no better ideas or solutions but only know how to amplify their anger and rile those unsuspecting and gullible people who don't stop to think twice.

If our hospitals are overwhelmed with Covid-19 patients, what will become of those who need regular medical attention?

I am speaking from personal experience. My elderly parents have a myriad of health conditions. My mother's doctor's appointment has been changed from July to September and now to November. The hospitals are overwhelmed as it is. 

I believe the moderators of this forum take views and suggestions seriously a…

[5:06 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Perhaps we should look far to labour from the philippines and train them for our healthcare industry. CNA has been reporting on poor economy affecting livelihoods of people in Phillippines. It will be a win-win if we can forge such collaboration with other SEA countries and ease the work of our healthcare workers.

[5:13 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Well YT. Hate to break the news. PM Lee just tweeted.

[5:17 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The current measures don't stop children and grandchildren from visiting the elderly.

The elderly also are not forbidden to go outside to dine and meet people as long as they are vaccinated.

Why people are spreading false information?

[5:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: the hospitals have been overwhelmed because the initial knee jerk reaction of MOH was too extreme and poorly calibrated. Beyond increasing hospital burden as it is by warding non-critical/high risk cases, it also led to irrational fear among the highly vaccinated population such that many rush to seek hospitalization even with mild/no symptoms. 

It has led to a huge backlog of "elective" visits that the hospitals needed to clear subsequently. This is only alleviated when Min Ong announced the 1, 2, 3 protocol which made home recovery the mainstay of the current COVID management program - but the backlog remains and will still require time to clear. 

Healthcare capacity is also impact by 50% increase in resignation YoY and one of the main drivers are foreign nurses/health workers who prefer to resign & go home because (1) we were in perpetual lockdown (2) borders were closed (3) severe workload due to the above. 

Opening up - in a calibrated way - is important to help society go back to normalcy so that we can start recruiting new hospital staff back into the system, one of the things we need to do to expand capacity.

[5:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: I think recruiting and opening up are 2 separate issues that need not go hand in hand. One nurse wrote on fb they used to look after 5-7 patients per pax but that has doubled and nearly tripled with covid. And the patients, sometimes, are not your friendly type.

[5:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Well, as I said before, where are your solutions or suggestions? Don't get me wrong, I am not dead set against lifting of restrictions but I hope good sense will pevail rather than a total lifting. 

Dan, sarcasm doesn't help here. Please do remember to be respectful. We can have differing views but being sarcastic won't help in any discussion.

[5:31 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Opening up does not necessarily equate to spike in hospitalization - make it clear profile of those at the highest risks, let individuals make the best decision for themselves and their families based on the risk profile of those staying at home. Triage patients based on accumulated experience/evidence on who's most likely to develop severe illness and right-site care. Keep encouraging booster jabs for those at highest risks. Let the rest of the world understand SG is no longer in lockdown/heightened alert etc. 

End of the day, it's a judgment call. Will this incur more risk than the current measures? Yes. but the risk-reward tradeoff depends on what's at stake and a political judgement on who should bear the pain.

[5:34 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/germany-covid-19-incidence-rate-record-vaccination-2298271

Germany's seven-day COVID-19 incidence rate rises to record high

[5:34 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Europe endemic don't work.

[5:38 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Singapore, Malaysia to launch vaccinated travel lane between Changi Airport and KLIA

This was announced in a joint statement by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his Malaysian counterpart Ismail Sabri Yaakob after both leaders spoke on the phone on Monday (Nov 8).

More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/malaysia-singapore-vtl-vaccinated-travel-lane-covid19-2298486

[5:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm not opting for lifting of restrictions, I'm just stating the problems I have in my household, giving feedback to Reach abt the dilemma that I'm facing. I try to offer solutions when I can. 

I agree that we may disagree and I'm not being sarcastic to tell u that we are opening VTL to Malaysia.

[5:43 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Singapore IS embarking on an endemic (living with COVID) strategy... so I guess you are saying that our govt is wrong?

[5:43 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore is middle path.

Europe is free for all

[5:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: O now it's free for all... and Germany is 70% vaccinated... I dunno what you are talking anymore.

[5:44 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

None of my private chat group support what you say - and think you are reckless.

[5:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: 👏

[5:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Its one thing to allow fully vaccinated seniors out of the homes, allowing visits yet justify why bloomberg forum may dine in 5 and Singaporeans can only dine in 2s because we may have senior citizens at home.

[5:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: Glad to know that and glad to know we can differ in our views and be mature enough not to make things personal. I was named by you and thus my response. Thanks for the clarification.

[5:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: YT, I apologised. My wrong choice of words led to the misunderstanding.

[6:10 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Concept of "Middle Path" versus "Free for all endemic".

[6:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: babe118????

[6:18 pm, 08/11/2021] +Smiley face: Singapore, Malaysia to start VTL for quarantine-free air travel from Nov 29

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/singapore-malaysia-to-start-vtl-for-quarantine-free-air-travel-from-nov-29

[6:19 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Anyway, sorry Danny - don't need to explain further. I think we are on the extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to this topic, I don't think we will be able to convince each other of our respective positions. Lets not spam the rest of the group further. My fault for picking on your posts as I strongly disagree with your positions and analysis. But we can agree to disagree.

[6:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +YT: It's all good! 😀

[6:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: Sinovac is introduced into the national vaccination programme since 20 Oct 2021. 

But to be considered as fully vaccinated, we need to receive 3 doses of vaccination. Between 1st dose and 2nd dose is 3-4 weeks and between 2nd dose and 3rd dose is 90 days. So the earliest we can complete the vaccination programme for sinovac is somewhere in late Feb 2022. Yet, MOM has asked unvaccinated employees to go for daily PETs from Jan 2022. 

Can MOM provide special consideration for this group of ppl who is on track for full vaccination?

[6:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +Dan: I'm fully vaccinated with booster shot with Pfitzer by the way, asking for ppl who are gg for Sinovac.

[6:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: +1 fully agree. Pls show some consideration, compassion.

[6:28 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Ok, big deal now is when under 12 can be vaccinated. Asap please, or at least give us a target date for approval.

[6:29 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Once the kids are safe and can travel safely, play football etc, the world will look a bit brighter

[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: 🙏

[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dining-groups-five-vaccinated-same-household-restaurants-hawker-centres-2298466

[6:30 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: Hooray!!!!!!!

[6:32 pm, 08/11/2021] +Nee: Does this👆🏼👆🏼 include kids who are still ineligible for vaccination on SG?

[6:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: 🙏

[6:34 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Latest News 

➡️ Vaccination-differentiated measures to be expanded, starting with visits and activities at residential care homes

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/vaccination-differentiated-measures-expanded-starting-residential-care-homes-2298636

➡️ COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated 'by choice' will have to pay their own medical bills from Dec 8 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-unvaccinated-choice-pay-own-medical-bills-moh-2298601

➡️ Fully vaccinated household members can dine out in groups of five from Nov 10 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/dining-groups-five-vaccinated-same-household-restaurants-hawker-centres-2298466

[6:35 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-to-decide-on-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids-aged-5-to-11-in-november?utm_campaign=stfb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

Just saw this!

[6:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +Cross finger: It doesn't actually say but presumably there are few households with 5 adults so it's implicit that it includes kids?

[6:36 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: Seems like a contradiction to what min gan explained viz a viz bloomberg forum regulations.

[6:39 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Well in REACH, participants are free to express their views in a brainstorming session.

2. I don't expect people's views must be identical to mine.

3. I am only focus in solutions and the corresponding consequences and suggest the solutions that benefit everyone with the least negative impact to people.

4. I am glad the government decides to pick my suggestion after comprehensively layout all the merits and demerits - to achieve a balance outcome to safeguard life and livelihood.

[6:42 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: 👍

[6:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: More Announcements 

➡️ Recorded music to resume at F&B outlets, event zone sizes to increase from Nov 10

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/consumer/recorded-music-to-resume-at-fb-outlets-event-zone-sizes-to-increase-from-nov-10

➡️ Minimum age for Home Recovery from Covid-19 lowered from five to three years 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/minimum-age-for-home-recovery-from-covid-19-lowered-from-five-to-three-years

➡️ Those medically ineligible for Covid-19 vaccines to get concessions from Dec 1 if they have GP certification 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/those-medically-ineligible-for-covid-19-vaccines-to-get-concessions-from-dec-1-if-they

➡️ Singapore to decide on Covid-19 vaccine for kids aged 5 to 11 in November 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-to-decide-on-covid-19-vaccine-for-kids-aged-5-to-11-in-november

[6:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: I think it is still good for people to voice their concerns and frustrations here; it gives REACH a chance to understand the ground sentiment from various segments of the population

[6:45 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: 🙏

[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We’d love to hear more from you! As such, we are extending the chats until 8pm today.

Megan 😊

[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: It helps the Gov to understand if the population is anywhere near the "breaking point" for policy implementation and changes

[6:46 pm, 08/11/2021] +Lim Suang: "breaking point" for policy implementation and changes

[6:49 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

[6:49 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: This is for MOH. What is it doing to review Pfizer's data that are relevant to an approval of pfizer's covid vaccine in singapore in view of the data integrity.

[6:51 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: I believe the real world evidence from vaccinated communities have confirmed mRNA efficacy but this report is good to call out lapses in the original trials.

[6:53 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: 5-a-side football among team sports to resume at some venues for vaxxed persons from Nov 10

Team sports for up to 10 fully vaccinated persons - including players and officials - can resume from Wednesday (Nov 10) at suitable ActiveSG sports centres and People's Association community clubs, the multi-ministry taskforce (MTF) handling the pandemic announced on Monday.

https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/5-a-side-football-among-team-sports-to-resume-at-some-venues-for-vaxxed-persons-from-nov-10

[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Restaurants allow 5 persons dine in.

Does it include food court?

[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Kids have always been exempted. 

Guess the G/MOH has decided to leave their safety in the hands of their parents rather than do the parenting for them 🤷‍♂️

[6:56 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Noted hawker centre and coffee shops still dine in 2 persons.

[6:58 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Yes

[6:59 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

You mean 5 persons can dine in at food court?

[6:59 pm, 08/11/2021] +Caleb: How about household visitors?

[7:02 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Even kids cannot sit with both parents even now, good to see this small concession being allowed!

[7:03 pm, 08/11/2021] +CQ: I read somewhere that still capped at 2

[7:04 pm, 08/11/2021] +Linda: Still remains as 2

[7:04 pm, 08/11/2021] +DC: I think with the latest batch of news, the question of lift vs maintain restrictions is moot. Guess we spent one afternoon for nothing.

[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Calibrated opening or closing as scenario unfold is ok.

 

[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +John Cheong: Every small step helps!

[7:05 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: Agreed! This is a very logical move. Happy to see.

[7:15 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes. And this changes the current policy. Policemen used to wear shorts. Circumstances and policies change. The underlying intention did not.

[7:16 pm, 08/11/2021] +BL: That's a bit over my head, but I think we are agreeing this is a sensible step in the right direction.

[7:20 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: Yes. Looks like we are expressing our agreement in our own way. 😂

[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: The 2 diners per table made no sense to me.

[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Joseph: rule*

[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Only restaurant

[7:21 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh so food court still 2.

[7:22 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Sadly, yes!

[7:22 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sigh.

Maybe got to wait another round

[7:23 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Last chance will be before year end!?

[7:24 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I thought 21 Nov another round?

[7:24 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: That could still happen.

[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hopefully by then more people take their 3rd jab booster shot.

[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Bear in mind it will be a bi monthly adjustment as mentioned by MMTF

[7:25 pm, 08/11/2021] +Rama: Yes

[7:26 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: School activities to gradually resume to support development, well-being of students: MOE

The Ministry of Education (MOE) said on Monday (Nov 8) that it would gradually resume more school activities, including Co-Curricular Activities (CCAs), in schools and Institutes of Higher Learning (IHLs).

More https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-school-activities-gradually-resume-development-well-being-students-moe-2298806

[7:44 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

[8:00 pm, 08/11/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan 😊

=====