REACH 260 - View on how to help students cope in schools (SK)
28 July 2021 (10am - 7pm)
REACH
[10:02 am, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Dear contributors,
Welcome back! π
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[10:03 am, 28/07/2021] +REACH: π’ Topic π’
More steps are being taken to ensure the mental well-being of students and security measures will be updated without sacrificing the sense of trust and homeliness that comes with the school environment, Education Minister Chan Chun Sing said in a ministerial statement on the River Valley High School incident in Parliament yesterday (27 Jul). Mr Chan also gave a brief run-down on the series of events that unfolded and what is being done to support our schools and look out for students in need.
π¬ What are your views on the ministerial statement on the support for schools, and students in need? How do you feel about the new measures announced by Minister Chan to help students cope better? How do you think can we better strengthen our community safety net, and create a more caring and nurturing environment for educating our young?
New measures to be rolled out in the “near term” to better care for the well-being of students in schools include giving all teachers enhanced professional development on mental health literacy as a baseline, and deploying more teacher-counsellors in the next few years. Schools will also dedicate more time and attention to checking in on students’ well-being.
MOE also plans to bring back co-curricular activities for secondary schools and pre-universities over the next few weeks as these help students bond and grow emotionally.
To reduce exam stress, Mr Chan said students taking the O-, N-and A-level examinations this year will not be tested on some topics covered towards the end of their syllabus. All other students will also have the scope of their year-end exams reduced in a year disrupted by the Covid-19 pandemic, to cut their revision load.
On the broader issue of the mental well-being of young people, Mr Chan highlighted the need for a community safety net. He said: "It takes an entire community to help look out for one another, to pick up warning indicators that something may not be going well with an individual close to us, to provide support and comfort to those who may be troubled."
π Ministerial statement on River Valley High School incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Kjn9EvcWE
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/how-river-valley-high-school-tragedy-unfolded-student-seen-holding-axe-asking
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/about-540-river-valley-high-school-students-and-teachers-have-sought-help-after
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/singapore-needs-a-more-caring-nurturing-society-in-addition-to-better-mental
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/lighter-load-for-national-and-year-end-school-exams-to-help-ease-stress-chan-chun
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/reaching-out-for-help-is-a-sign-of-strength-not-weakness-chan-chun-sing
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/schools-should-not-be-a-fortress-but-a-second-home-chan-chun-sing-on-balancing
π https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/river-valley-high-school-principal-teachers-put-aside-grief-to-care-for-students
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[10:27 am, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Pfizer is also doing trials for younger age group. But meanwhile until pfizer vac is given green light for the younger generation, govt can implement to ask employers to set wfh as default mode of work for employees with young children so that public contact is further minimised. Because if parents are exposed, they will spread to their kids as they live tgt.
[10:52 am, 28/07/2021] +Valli: CCAs should put on hold for the moment, until we are able to bring down the clusters & unlink cases & bring the cases to single digits.
[11:08 am, 28/07/2021] +Timothy Low: CCA is now on virtual mode
[11:16 am, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Teachers are overstretched. Any teacher or parent with school-going children will testify that large class size is the single biggest problem.
Time to commit resources to bring average class size for primary schools from currently 33 to 20!
We have excess school buildings, world class infrastructures and excellent curriculum.
Just beef up recruitment, training, and professional development to expand teachers pool.
[11:16 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: All good.
But what actually is the root cause of the problems pertaining to mental health?
How are we going to address it,
One should accept The Stress in system before we find solutions. When comparing Other Sectors we compare with all Developed nations, but when comes to education what actually lacking?
Why younger students getting Mental illness, as In human life
This age is actually should be the happiest one?
One Child or two children suffered does not matter. As many children facing stress, which is actually can easily be avoided.
[11:20 am, 28/07/2021] +Dan: Rethink class size. Even equipping teachers with adequate training, it will not be helpful with the overwhelming workload. While Singapore is grappling about the new norm, teachers took on alot more new roles and duties since covid.
[11:21 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: The current system is Only for the best,
I am sorry to say this is the reality.
All singapore schools are Goodππ½ I totally agree with it.
But i ask Are all schools SAME? If Not same why is it so?
Why the difference and what exactly are the differences?
Giving the same access to all children and guiding them which is best for them is Totally different, as choosing based on Marks and Grades.
So many things to talk when comes to education. Not sure whether in today topics permitts or not.
[11:34 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: it takes 2 hands to clap
[11:34 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: dun everything find something to blame
[11:34 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: we are in a society where collaboration is required
[11:35 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: teachers overload who to blame ? school ranking system ? parents kia shu load their kids with pte extra lesson and activities
[11:35 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: class room size big then why cannot split into to session smaller class is good for students too
[11:35 am, 28/07/2021] +Caleb: Talking about school. Can MOE change the P1 reg system to a 1 time registration?
Like PSLE posting to sec sch.
Is computerised. End of the the day the child need to go into a primary sch.
[11:36 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: o yeah i forget some parent will grumble as if they dam free 2 session well they forget our parents did the same for us as well brother in morning, sister in afternoon
[11:36 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Agreed. I was shocked my kids school is closing and merging with a different one, due to class sizes being too small. He will go from 22-ish to what, 40? The school he is in was refurbished just 5 years ago. What a waste!
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Agree
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: sorry did i hear wrong! 40 headcount per class!!!!
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: My point exactly.
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: they running some polytechnic lecture is it ?
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: But Curriculum part Not fully agrrr thoughπ
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: this is crazy !
[11:37 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Education system is too focused on Tests. They practice the test, do the test, then review the test. The most uninspiring way I can image to teach kids about the wonders of the world.
[11:38 am, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Yes. Upper primary in most schools are 40. Lower primary 30. MOE likes to report “average” class size.
[11:38 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: If a kid fails the test they feel like a loser. They feel they are a failure and have no value. It's all about the number. Such a waste of childhood imagination - how do we encourage creative thinking, leadership, collaboration in a system like this?
[11:39 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: No wonder the kids feel despondent and right now they can't even get much social or leisure time.
[11:39 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Everything is about Marks
When system is like that
Parents and Teachers also stressed.. it's the system first need to be Cleaned then Parents and finally the teachers.
[11:40 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, I'm not blaming the teachers, although I do see a lot of them don't challenge the system either. They support it despite having the loudest and most valuable voice of all. They could do more to change it maybe?
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: have to blame society if there is a need to find the goat to blame
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: as parents we want our kids to have the best so does every other parent local or import
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: then what happen we created an internal race among outselves
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Like all complex issues, there is no single silver bullet. But there is always single biggest contributing factor.
To reduce stress in our kids and education system, that will be class size, class size and class size.
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Beacuse we are seeing Only the BEST has been getting The BEST .
[11:41 am, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: this results in the school racing among themselves as well
[11:42 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: It's also true there is a culture of additional classes - more maths, science, language etc. This puts some kids ahead academically, it makes the class disjointed and puts the teacher under pressure to work out what to cover in what detail.
[11:43 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: My kid does extra chinese, because its the only subject he struggles with. Top 5% for English and Maths, Top 30% for Science but has never passed a Chinese Test.
[11:43 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: The class size.
The Syllabus!!
Imagine Primary level learning complex Eng mother tongue.
Why they need to ?
To protect MT we need to like it but here we are forcing them to Learn.
Syllabus is the key point along with the system of Alocating Secondary schools.
[11:43 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: School told us they are considering dropping him down due to Chinese and that it will affect his PSLE and his higher education. What a stupid crazy system.
[11:44 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: They talk about holistic learning, which meant going from 1 big test a year, to 4 smaller tests a year.... I mean seriously?
[11:45 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Same For my girl. MT she always had issue. As we speak different language than the MT as no choice we opted for it.
But the Syllabus killing her Zeal to learn a language.
Children should learn how to speak and write MT. They no need to learn the Highest grade of language to be authors In Primary level Itself
[11:45 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: And right now - where is the emotional support for kids? 18 months of mask wearing so they can't see each other laugh or smile? Limited social interaction, no vacations, can't use leisure facilities. A stolen childhood.
[11:46 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Deffinatly Sg education is not Holistic
If we believe it's
We are hypocrites
[11:46 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes. Agree
[11:48 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Correct - I'm fully supportive of learning other languages, but he now hates the subject. It's taught in such a boring, memorising way.
[11:48 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I'm terribly sad he is losing his love of education because it's 1950's style. Can you believe he got told off for not bowing low enough to the English Language teacher?
[11:49 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Why they need PSLE when they already Refined The Gifted students in P3 itself?
Just to filter out for top 10%
Suffering the rest of 90%
please don't say that there is no other way to allocate Secondary school.
There are plenty ways.
(Look at other countries)
Infact just have Primary and secondary same place.
[11:50 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: π³
My goodness π
[11:51 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: People in his class got told off for asking questions. The teacher told them to 'just do it' - doesn't seem to matter if they understand or not. Just that they can copy and memorise
[11:51 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: The idea of education as a learning, exploration and discovery journey is totally lost by MoE
[11:51 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I understand it was established when Singapore was growing and needed engineers, production and manufacturing - that generation built this amazing country. But... things have changed, and our education system has not.
[11:51 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: When Most of the world Focusing Getting University level education.
Because of Keep refining
How many Here able to get Uni Cert?.
(Plz let's not talk about them of it's less than 50%)
Why Not Everyone able to Get to JC atleast.
After that they can Choose the path They want.
[11:51 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Totally agree.
[11:52 am, 28/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: π€
[11:52 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Unfortunately I do think some teachers were educated here a long time ago and they teach as they were taught, just as many parents now parent as they were parented. It then becomes very slow to evolve. I do think we need fresh teaching style, fresh look at what the country needs and an injection of money to keep class sizes small.
[11:52 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: There is a lot of talk that Singapore has the highest ranking education in the world, thereabouts. But I'm sceptical of how that is measured and what it's based on.
[11:53 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Only for the TOP 10%
Deffinatly the Best in whole world
[11:54 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Maybe our focus on Primary is to inspire the kids into a love for learning, and then in Secondary they are motivated to push their academic abilities?
[11:55 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Get our kids to feel confident, positive and engaged - that is what is needed. I see a lot of reluctance, deference and lack of motivation. It's just about passing tests.
[11:55 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Clearly the Raffles Institute is what makes Singapore shine. For everyone else....?
[11:55 am, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I could go on about this all day, but need to get back to work! lol
[11:57 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Asking a 12 year old to go through A national level exam where based on the MARKS she get
She can enroll To a secondary school.
If all schools ar same why Does the marks and Grades matter?
A friend of mine who didn't scored well fpr Maths in Secondary exam, She denied taking A Maths.
Why don't let her take and Try
Why IS NECESSARY TO PASS all the time.?
Just because she failed Banning her to take up on the subject, how Good is it?
(Plz don't tell its to take out stress. )
Children Feel stress if other choose the Choices for them.
As long as they ar able to choose what they like, depsite hurdles they don't feel stress.
It's a simple logic
(Of course for Uni level it's different scenario)
But at Younger age Defining the child at what she is good at what she is not is A wrong approach
[11:58 am, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Totally Agree
[0:01 pm, 28/07/2021] +Timothy Low: Personally I feel A-level's standard is too high for our students to achieve. It's almost like torture
[0:01 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: They want to Bring out Gifted kids it's already Happening in P3 level.
So there is no need of An exam. Here i want to quote this
Minister And MP Mr. Janil did a show CNA.
regardless of class
How many Lower income families able to get in to RI? And other popular schools
Can we get the data. !
The current system is for the Best by the best.
For Avg very few Able to climb up the ladder.
This very few are exceptions. So let's talk about majority.
[0:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm PSLE itself is Very stressful.
I can imagine A levelπ
[0:06 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: But removing PSLE means less meritocratic because it will be 100% DSA to secondary and the less well to do families will be even more disadvantaged.
[0:06 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Once PSLE is Out.
DSA should be Out as well. :)
[0:07 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Then how do secondary schools select and admit students?
[0:07 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Those who wants to pursue particular Sports Let them get access in different way.
[0:09 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: Primary school is not the age to nail dead if a kid is good for this or that stream
[0:09 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Many ways i guess. If we look at other countries systems.
(I don't have Much knowledge.. but definitely not all countries had PSLE)
Simple way is School Distance :)
Once PSLE is out
The branding will be gone
(It takes time but it will happen eventually)
So school to home distance
[0:09 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
[0:10 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: My point is Same
Why a child need to Branded At that age!!
[0:10 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Class size is THE single largest factor.
Reduce primary and secondary class size to a hard 20 will have cascading benefits all around:
1. Teachers’ workload and stress will significantly reduce;
2. More attention given to each student during curriculum time will lead to better learning outcomes;
3. Students will then rely less on private tuition;
4. Morale of teachers and students will improve;
5. Mental health of students will improve.
[0:11 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Wow looking at more than 60 over posts here - for awhile I thought our education system is falling apart.
2. But when I look around, I notice that my kid, all my siblings kids have graduated with university degrees with good honours and got good Jobs, some are going to Universities - almost all have good University degrees or is pursuing a degree.
3. My close friend kids also graduated with good degrees and landed with good jobs.
4. So wonder is our education system really doing so badly?
[0:12 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Our current system doesn’t do that.
We have multiple pathways of education. We must give credit to the government for the improvements over the years.
But large class size is the next thing to be tackled.
[0:13 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: ππ
[0:13 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: So you mean an avg student also can go RI?
[0:14 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: No. But an “average” student have many options and pathways to develop his or her potential to the fullest.
[0:15 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Going to RI doesn't guarantee your success in university or career.
[0:16 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: We are saying the education system benefits a small number of academic kids, but the rest (90%) are not being catered for properly. If you family is in the top 10% then there is no benefit to you or them for changing the system.
[0:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: However, we want to improve the system for the benefit of all Singaporeans and Singapore's future.
[0:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: As you point out this is a hot topic, so clearly something is happening that needs addressing.
[0:18 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Please don't just disregard people's concerns because your family and friends have succeeded. That's like a person who inherits wealth saying there is no poverty.
[0:23 pm, 28/07/2021] +Patrick Loke: Frequent change in leadership didn’t help too. Education policies require relatively longer time to execute before we see results, then need to tweak.
We’ve had 5 Education Ministers in the past 6 years.
[0:27 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Wonder is it only 10% benefit from our education system?
2. I just ask my in-law family, her sister kids also all graduated with a degrees and landed with good jobs.
3. My close friend siblings kids also all graduated with degrees or pursuing their degrees.
Though I would say not all going through the JC route, some going through the polytechnic route.
[0:28 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: If all same Why not Let Avg also join there
As the best ones can shine even in neighbouring schools also
Correct
[0:28 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Totally agree
[0:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
Let me Tell the same thing
The best Mingling around the Best
The avg mingling with avg
It's totally divided.
(Again Watch Class difference)
Meaning
When u Put apl the best in one place.they have no accesw to mingle with the rest.
This is the biggest flaw
[0:31 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I told my kid not to enrol in the top secondary school, and top JC.
He did not.
Now he graduated with good honours through a good scholarship and now working with the government.
[0:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: I mentioned before
Exceptions Are Smaller number
So let's not talk yours or mine
We are discussing here with whole system
And All children from all backgrounds
[0:35 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: If care about HDB EIP
By mentioning .not to have Social enclaves based on race
How come we forget The same about education
Why we encourage
Based on Marks and Grades!
Why not Let some students who are avg(NOT DSA) also get access.
Why its purely on marks based?
[0:35 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Wonder what is the percentage of our population graduate with a degree regardless of JC or polytechnic or ITE route?
2. Wonder how many people graduate with a polytechnic diploma?
3. Wonder how many graduate with ITE certificate?
This will give us a good grasp how good or how bad our education system is.
[0:36 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Trust me
Even if EIP not there or not
Many here already adopted the Policy and minda
But this social enclaves of Best avg academically
Is going to he much much harmful to the society
[0:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Not surprising
[0:38 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
Same questions along with it
1. How many Low and middle income able to get in to popular schools
2. In that how many actually felt OK to be there and not felt they are left out
3. How many Lower income people able to get in to popular PRIMARY schools which has affiliation.
4. How many lower income families especially from minority background able to study what they dreamt off
[0:39 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore doing so badly meh?
Thought Singapore education system rank best in the world.
[0:39 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes BEST FOR THE BESTππ½
Not for the REST
[0:40 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Then how come Singapore education system is the best - if the rest are not the best?
[0:42 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: 5. Also How many students from Lower and middle income able to afford Tuitions out side (not to pass ..but to get in to the popular schools)
6. How many parents able to Give most of their time for children
Especially when they are young, are Lower income and middle imcome Struggling to work Most of the time
And Unable to give enough attention to the kids?
[0:43 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My kid don't take tuition.
[0:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: π same
How come All students not able to Access To RI
If it's the best?!
How come One of the First world country in world
How come some people Still unable to survive without Govt subsidies and help
(The best doesn't mean that best for everyone and everything)
[0:45 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Good
May be you can help or
You kid is Gifted ππ½
Happy for u
[0:45 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: 7. How many students actually able to get in to popular schools woth out Help of parents and tuition.?
[0:46 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Huh?
Is only the top 10% give such average score?
But it is all Singaporean students producing this result wor.
[0:47 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Ok you wanted to talk about best
I rest my case.
I won't debate
If some one coming and saying
There are no lower income or middle income People in Singapore
I just keep quietππ½
I won't debate
It is about the Exposure we had
We can able to understand
[0:48 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Who care about popular schools really?
I and my brother go to RI - but to us no big deal - we don't talk about it.
We send all our kids to neighborhood schools and average JCs - and now almost all graduated with good degrees and good jobs.
What so great about popular schools?
[0:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly what's so great that
Only THE one who scored 4 to 8
Or who are BEST at DSA only can enter?
What's so great that
A avg student with Avg marks can not enter
[0:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Nothing great about popular schools
[0:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly Nothing great
That's what i am saying
If nothing great
Why not Every one get equal access
Why marks matter
[0:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Just wondering about mental illness Surveys
Is Singapore Is in line with Same Developed countries mentioned
[0:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: There's more than meets the eye on this.
[0:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
That's why we are discussing π
So many things
We want to just close one eye
Rather than questioning and analysing
[0:55 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Calvin Cheng: Unvaccinated people aren’t being discriminated against
Singapore — Former Nominated (NMP) wants to make it clear that those who are unvaccinated in Singapore are not being discriminated against.Gong Cha has been one of the later firms to hop on the trend and is offering one of its menu items at half price for those who are fully vaccinated between the dates of 20 Jul and 18 Aug.
https://news.nestia.com/detail_share/7158669?media_type=1&nestiaShareChannel=whatsapp
[0:56 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: The answers will never be straightforward coming from any valid source.
[1:00 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes .
Deffinatly
That's where the policy makers toughest job
Any part of the world
Where ever the suppressed cared most
Wherever the Disadvantaged people able to Climb up
Where ever the lower end of all social aspects people given extra hand to mive upwards
That's where we can call a system is fair system.
Not the other way round
We should be caring about The Avg and below avg Students first
Before focusing on Best ones.
We should be Encouring the Avg people to go higher a bit by bit
Than keep flitering them out...
[1:00 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: To: Distinguished Min Chan (MOE) and All Honorable Members
The Margin of Errors, The Outliers and The Fact of Lives
Facts:
Of lately, the OECD educational experts have cross referenced and examined education systems from the Nordic to the Chinese. Plain speaking, good or not so, the Singapore education system has undergone several changes since post 1965.
From the 1950s and into the 1960s, Singapore faced many socio-economics challenges from hygiene, poverty, housing and education. It took the 1st and 2nd Generation of leaders thirty years to fine-tune and against all odds to elevate out of these shortcomings of economics and livelihoods.
Education wise, in the 1960s, there was a vacuum of QUALITY & QUANTITY teaching positions to fill the much desperate students ratio and learning curves. It took a further quarter of century to put things in placed and escalated to today's multi facade educational system. One point to note is that our government THINK TANKS are constantly evolving and seeking new ways of improving any systems of this Inc, humbly speaking this case our Singapore!
Afterwords:
Perhaps if one has a TIME-MACHINE that zooms into the Year 1965! He or she will be in a state of comprehending what's happened then and what is it now? Comparative in 1960s, given the LIMITED resource of all sorts and the CONSTANT fight against TIME to build a nation up from scratch! From the beginnings of post 1965 Singapore, one needs to understand the starting point, available platforms and cross reference to today's situations. What we need to reflect, perhaps, importantly to seek improvements and stay relevant!
Quotations:
“You begin your journey not knowing where it will take you. You have plans, you have dreams, but every now and again you have to take uncharted roads, face impassable mountains, cross treacherous rivers, be blocked by landslides and earthquakes. That's the way my life has been.”
-- Lee Kuan Yew
As you solve one set of problems, new ones appear. That is part of the nature of life.
-- Lee Kuan Yew
“The human being is an unequal creature. That is a fact. And we start off with the proposition. All the great religions, all the great movements, all the great political ideology, say let us make the human being as equal as possible. In fact, he is not equal, never will be.”
-- Lee Kuan Yew
"If there was one formula for our success, it was that we were constantly studying how to make things work, or how to make them work better."
-- Lee Kuan Yew
What I fear is complacency. When things always become better, people tend to want more for less work.
—Lee Kuan Yew
The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85 per cent on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites score on average 100. Asians score more. The Bell curve authors put it at least 10 points higher. These are realities that, if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow.
-- Lee Kuan Yew
"A Vision is liken a big hole when closes up is filled with multitude of SPARKLING dots, so important...! "
-- Ian T
[1:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree sia. Because the emphasis is so much on the cold hard value like merit and achievements that humanity values such as empathy, sympathy, kindness are lost. On the mental illness issue, you can see so many people attacking that once a person has mental illness, it is same as going to jail.
But tbh, mental illness is as common as a person with fever. It can happen to anyone under any time. It can come suddenly or creep in slowly.
[1:05 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[1:26 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Mental issue in students will have to address separately - without the need to pull down a top class education system that have been working very well.
A tweak to the system - maybe possible depending on which parts need to improve.
Not tearing it down - when Singapore education system already rank top in the world.
[1:28 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, the affiliation is a huge problem. Restricts access to Secondary schools which then impacts higher education access.
[1:28 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: We talked about this before. We don't know how they are measuring and ranking the 'educational outcome' and what does that mean?
[1:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: This is all best on Test and Exam results. If that's all children are taught then sure, they will get high marks, but will learn very little and have very little interest in education. Life-long learning should be our ambition, not high grades in exams.
[1:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: You said previously that they did.
[1:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Anyway, let's not make this debate about your family, we are trying to look at the bigger picture.
[1:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/spore-students-suffer-from-high-levels-of-anxiety-study
[1:31 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That's not true.
All my kid and my siblings kids go to neighborhood schools and average JCs - they don't go to top JCs or top secondary schools.
Now many graduate with good honours degrees, landed with good jobs - and practically fielded in every profession.
So is it a myth that going to top secondary school or JC the pathway to higher education?
[1:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Read the bottom paragraph too
[1:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Valli: Our education system need to be revamped.
The syllabus & teaching methods , the emphasis on grades, the banding system, all need to change with the disruptions that had happened.
[1:33 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Results top.
Less confident in learning them because their peers are better than them.
But they are already better than the rest of the world.
[1:33 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: https://qz.com/962913/pisa-the-worlds-largest-assessment-of-teenage-students-suggests-happiness-is-crucial-to-learning/amp/
[1:34 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
But those graduated with degrees got good Jobs wor.
[1:34 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Why is so?
Why they are less confident
And less happier
And More stressful than their peers in other countries
[1:34 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Correct, and it can be treated too - lives should not be lost through Mental Illness. We need to pay more attention and support our kids more.
[1:34 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Money easy to earn meh?
No hard work no reward.
[1:37 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
Babies are not born with equal talents.
While I personally belief that the role of parents is to guide them along a path which we parents believe in, we should not deprive them the joy of learning.
School grades are not the only measure of learning.
When the system sucked up all their time and they don't derive joy from their studies that's where I see children becoming quiet, dull, angry etc.
When all frustrations fused together to become mental problems, and parents, schools and MOE step in to support, I think it's late, if not too late.
How to make learning joyous and meaningful to children to me should be a key objective.
It's very difficult because this is where every child is different.
[1:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: But lacking in confidence. I'd rather kids had confidence that good grades. Confidence allows people to adapt and take on new problems.
[1:37 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Well as far as I know, he is doing well in his job even though he just join the government.
[1:38 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I support good grades for graduates of course. I think the main problem is in the Primary schools, where kids are taught to pass tests.
[1:38 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes Totally agree with your friend
[1:38 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: ππ½yes
[1:39 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: How do you measure hard work? Through exam grades? Being academically strong? Is that all the country needs? Is that 'holistic'?
[1:41 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I hope to hear more from your close friend if this is his/her thinking. I agree we don't need to tear down the education system, but it can be revised quickly. There are many good models we can look at. Maybe get more input from Parents? Industry? Arts? Academics? Right now the focus is just on good grades. The PSLE is designed to benefit academically able kids who have memorised processes and facts. What happens to creative kids?
[1:42 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I don't harp on my son exam grades though he do very well.
In some semester whereby he didn't score his usual As - I just told him you have done your best.
Try again next semester.
So is exam grades really that important to me - I don't think so nor he is stress by it.
Doing the best is good enough, exam grades will just come naturally.
[1:43 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
None of our kids in primary schools.
Mostly in university and workforce.
No ideas what is going on in the primary schools now.
[1:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[1:46 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Is this you not harping on about how successful your kid is? Sorry he didn't get his usual As, but if this is rare maybe that is why he wasn't stressed?
[1:47 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
π€·
[1:49 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I guess you didn't pick up on my tone.... lol
[2:20 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: I think the SG education system is good at filtering for "exam-smart" people. We're not teaching people how to learn, we're teaching them how to sit for exams and score well.
Our education system wasn't great when it came to late bloomers. If you didn't perform well at your time, you're filtered out, certain doors are closed to you (Eg the top civil service office roles). Doesn't matter that you managed to pick up later. Those doors remain closed because of the way they project your "potential".
What I found to be most hypocritical is the "you don't need a degree to succeed". While this is true, how many govt roles still filter based on whether you have a degree? How many of the non-degree holders take top level roles in civil service (Eg Director level a…
[2:20 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: ππ
[2:21 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
44% of 4th generation Singaporeans got a degree.
Is Singapore education system so bad that need to pull down....
I wonder..... Scratching my head ....π€¦
[2:26 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore is the top performing country in the world in Education.
https://ncee.org/country/singapore/
[2:27 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Answer lies your question itself
The best country in the world
Only 44% got Uni Degree
Disappointed
[2:28 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: It should be 80% and above
[2:30 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Where on earth in a country that have 80% with degree?
It may end up you need a degree to be a cleaner.
[2:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: For example
A big MNC is opening up jobs
And when they get applications
First filter will be
Uni degree vs Poly diploma
Even The Skills are much better for Poly candidates
They might not be able to get through in first place
Also how many Poly diploma graduates working in MNCs and at what level
Compare to FTs despite having high skills
Whether we accept or not
Certs do matter
[2:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Valli: I hope MOM do not blindly approve S-Pass applications.
During Covid , I am aware that many foreigners sat for exams online & obtain their diplomas & degrees easily by paying a small sum for it.
Most locals lose their job opportunities when the jobs are being offered to these people.
[2:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Dan: In case you guys are fixated that schools today focus too much on results. Well no actually. Most of the topics we have discussed here have lesson packages in school. To name a few, cyber wellness, anti-bullying, terrorism (that is how RV carried out their lockdown drill efficiently), climate change, Recycling project, road safety, sex education, tray return, appreciation of frontline workers (VIA project), hygiene, Covid-19 etc. The teachers have to keep up with the rapid change to our complex society and they are definitely not that results driven some had suggested.
[2:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Sam: Then all the executive and technician, even retail assistant etc will be filled by graduate
[2:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: We have such a high literacy rate and high number of degree holders, and yet even in the private sector, we're parachuting foreigners in to take top spots? Hmm... So our education systen produces capable kah kias. Got it.
[2:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: So?
You mean As now depends On FW...FDW
Forbid few pupil from
Studying?
[2:39 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Singapore don't lower their standards to make everyone go to university.
Unless the students qualified then they can go to university.
Else our degree certificate become worthless.
[2:40 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: There is something called dignity of labor
We need to understand about that
[2:41 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: So,
You agree that Certs do matter?
[2:42 pm, 28/07/2021] +Sam: If all executive, technian, retail assistant are filled by university graduates, do you think that they will be paid university graduate salary? And of course allowing more student to go university also means that we are lowering the entry criteria. What kind of graduates will be produced then?
[2:42 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Employers only employ workers that are capable of doing the job - not because he or she arm with a degree certificate.
Even if got a degree certificate but can't do the job - he or she don't get the job.
Even got the job also won't last long.
[2:43 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Sounds like a good initiative - but what does it mean? "Singapore launched the “Learn for Life” initiative in 2018 to promote greater flexibility in teaching, learning, and assessment. With more opportunities for self-directed learning in and out of school, Singapore hopes to encourage lifelong learning for all Singaporeans, in ways that bring them satisfaction and meaning. "
[2:43 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
A degree certificate is only good enough for the first job.
Thereafter job experience and competency counts.
[2:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: To be expected of course, not all kids are the same. Question is - what are we doing to ensure lower academic kids have equally good prospects in other areas of life? "Despite Singapore’s strong emphasis on educational equity, there remains a large gap between the nation’s highest-performing and lowest-performing students on PISA."
[2:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes Agree
[2:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Not at all, many jobs require a degree to even apply.
[2:45 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: This is something to celebrate: "Ten percent of disadvantaged students in Singapore are in the top-performing group compared to an OECD average of three percent."
[2:45 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Haha
We should have got answer from above msgs
As we need retail assistant etc
This group will fulfill those jobs
As per above msgs
[2:46 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: More likely to be a robot....
[2:47 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: That's encouraging - what is a lesson package?
[2:48 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Do you agree to this.
Those who can afford Overseas education, this group still getting overseas degree despite they didn't get selected here?
How about disadvantage families like lower middle income!
[2:49 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: University is not just about getting a high paying or highly skilled job. It is also about quality of life, contribution to society. Nurses don't get paid the same as Financial Bankers, nor do Artists, but they all go and get degrees.
[2:49 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: So you mean by learning this my child now can apply to RGS
She wants as this is nearest to my homeπ!
[2:49 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: certs in todays is a key to give u a job ... NOT a key to path of luxury and good job
[2:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: admit it todays society those with what PHD or master cannot even interact with people properly / cannot do the job well ... because why they are too focus on these so call paper chase
[2:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes agree
[2:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: i still will like to see our pre school and primary inculcate learning as a fun learning journey so that it becomes a 2nd learning instinct in our boys and gers
[2:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: With current system
Pupils don't have confidence in them, i wonder will they able to sustain in future
Even who has Uni Certsπ
[2:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: let them stream out to their liking in uper secondary (thats where most boys and gers mature)
[2:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Maybe we just have to wait until 2024.... "The goal is to achieve full subject-based banding, with students freely mixing and matching classes from different bands, by 2024. "
[2:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: learning is suppose to be fun
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: but in singapore is tedious and scary
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Exactly
Life supposed to a happy life
And learning supposed to be fun
But we lack in both aspectsπ
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: also is not always about maths and sci or english
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, fun, productive, useful, inspiring, collaborative and more. Here it just a means to an end - next institution, then high paying job.
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yesππ½
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: is not always about high paying job
[2:52 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: is about developing interest and characters
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: high paying job is enever ending
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Dan: Lesson package may include videos, visual aids, mindmapping tools to help them design thinking and work on the topic either through project work, discussion forum etc. Yadda yadda.
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: today engineer tomorrow manager next director den MP? DEN PRESIDENT DEN NOT ENUFF BECOME HIGH COLLAR CROOK ?
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: True, and nor should it be. It just seems that the goal for education is about high grades to get to the best school and then a good job.
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: that's the wrong concept
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Dan: No. But it preps them for today society. Something more useful.
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: education is to allow them land a job they are interest and can further develop
[2:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: OK, maybe that isn't present in my kids school!
[2:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: so they can have a longer life line in that line
[2:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, it should be that
[2:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: we have took in too much western world concept that look at our economy and social circle is all about where u working how much u earning oooooooooo
[2:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: but seriously ask anyone u like you job
[2:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: the answer is cannot help it ley .. i need a living
[2:55 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: sometimes certain things need not change
[2:55 pm, 28/07/2021] +Dan: Should have, cos its MOE initiative. Not school driven.
[2:55 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: i hope some MOE ppl is in here listen to our voice please
[2:55 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: preschool learning multiplication ?
[2:56 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: That i agree :)
But because they learn that, does not mean other things are Also that much important
For example
My girl MT
I Deffinatly say That much of syllabus is No USE EVEN NOW OR FUTURE
Except to torture her
Except to make her over all grade down
No use of The complicated MT she is forcefully learning
That's what i am saying
Teach what is needed to be a better human being for self and for society..
[2:56 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: hey pre school shoudl they not learnt things like langagues and some general knoweldge and simple maths but emphsis on principles of live and of cos inculcate learning as a journey which of knowledge
[2:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: if those that needs streaming at primary school make it an option
[2:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: why pressure the whole cohort into it
[2:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: go to IMH and see how many kids are going bonkers
[2:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: those not bonkers but play everyday we say they are useless nd no future
[2:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
I tell my girl
The only thing i want her is
She should be doing what she likes and happliy can live
Rather than
For sake of living
[2:58 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: if there is a vote i say revamp starts with the preschool and kindergarden first , give our children their childhood make learning fun for them .....once they bite on this the road is easier for them in pri and sec
[2:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[2:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: also bring back social studies ... our kids needs to know whats happen in the society to have the basic of society living and culture instill in them
[2:59 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
My close friend comments:-
I believe strongly in diligence. We need to cultivate that sense of honesty and integrity that later in life we need to deliver results.
Grades is a very important aspect. We can expect and have to respect MOE and schools to institute objective measures and grades is a form of objective measure.
Problem is we forgot that's not the only measure.
One of my child did not do very well in exams in his lower primary. He came across as smart or even very smart but grades didn't measure up.
It's easy to see from the exams papers that came back. Questions at the back of the paper were all wrong. But if I separately asked him to solve or answer them, he had all the right answers.
The problem was attention, by the time he answered half the paper, he lost focused π . So all wrong lor.
If we just merely pushed more tuition, then we would got it all wrong and stifle the child. But if we shift to play games like pick up stick games and later sports which train up on endurance, the situation improve by itself. So all these are very individual. Too hard or impossible for MOE and school to follow through.
As parents, we have to complement what MOE and schools are already doing rather than engage tutors and hot housing methods to help them get ahead of their peers in schools.
My child's classmate stacked up all the revision packages that he had done for physics (just 1 subject) was taller than the boy.
And the boy later would never do physics again.
So wasted.
[2:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: we dun need youtube and other influences to teach them cos those might not correctly represent what is here in singapore
[2:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes this is what i am about to write
[3:00 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: if you do not know your home ground well what is the use of just blindly following others
[3:01 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: but end of the day whether the brains up there want to hear or not is another issue ... for sure i am not allowing my kid to have this rat race i race him or her be as wild as a kampung kid and grow with time and age
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: to cultivate a good person take ages rather then a book smart who go to a good school and be a crook
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: no school in singapoe is a bad school that is for sure
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: it is society and those freak elite mindset self fish % that band the level of school
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: dun forget BOSS NEEDS WORKERS TO FUNCTION
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes all schools are goodππ½
[3:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: WORKERS DO NOT NEED BOSSES TO FUNCTION
[3:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: cos workers can jump one company to another ....
[3:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: so dun say ITE and special school are useless ...
[3:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: if tat is the case A levels are totally useless cos only a small percentage can go local uni
[3:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: same for our uni grads how many are actually from pure local uni ya
[3:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahahaha
[3:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: so compare here and there all we want is the key of knowledge and education to enter into the society , be a contributor and of cos some wants to be leaders let them be but never be a crook!
[3:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: ESM Goh, his latest book launch speech. Recalling his young days, his premiership and his counterparts.
[3:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Yes
[3:33 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Agree
[3:40 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree
[3:41 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes ππ½
[3:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: The impt one is the paragraph not highlighted in yellow... confidence is low. Why are our students having low confidence? Because our school and society is not tolerant on mistakes made.
For e.g. isn't it natural that trains break down? Why is this even considered as big news on train break down? Unless it is those super big accidents i have nothing to say.
Isn't it natural to have internet down when there is a sudden surge of connectivity? Why are there super complaints on these during circuit breaker last year?
Somehow the mentality taught by both school and society in Singapore, i will say it is a bit distorted.
[3:46 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Good point
[3:47 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: ππ½ππ½well said
[3:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +Valli: Yes agree
[3:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Yes. I agree. I see the students being piled up with homework, i can see that they are too stressed up.
[3:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Agree... there are different types of learners. Hands on learners do not have good grades, but they know what to do. How can just use academics to measure people?
[3:53 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: I think Finland has pretty good education system...
[3:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya even with the new PSLE grading it is just further dividing into more classes... are we going to become like India class system?
[3:56 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya agree... even those with ITE certs or WSQ certs are not really taken by employers even though they have good hands on skills.
[3:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: 100% - there are different types of learners. Equally capable but respond to different methods.
[3:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Not only S Pass, but the EPs also
[3:58 pm, 28/07/2021] +Caleb: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/enhanced-covid-19-measures-at-two-fishery-ports-here-after-major-outbreak?utm_source=Telegram&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=STTG
Now then enhanced measure?
[3:58 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
End up after all discussion, our education system no need to overhaul.
Just need to tweak
[3:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I'm not sure we all share that conclusion, it might need more than a tweak.
[4:00 pm, 28/07/2021] +Caleb: Can we have a BOI on changi airport and fishery port outbreak?
[4:01 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: What tweak do you suggest?
[4:01 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
If overhaul, our top rank in the world - could have drop several ranks - and our workforce become mediocre.
[4:01 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: And revise character and moral education. Include stress and anger management as well...
[4:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yeah
So much to change
If not the Class difference will become huge issue for future generations
[4:02 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Don't know what is wrong - except the boy 16 years old got some mental illness.
[4:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: And character and moral education should apply all the way into secondary as well
[4:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Oh is it
Only one case
Glad to know that
I hope i was Wrong
[4:02 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: It's not just about Curriculum, but teaching methods, measures for success, focusing on children's needs and how to instill a joy for learning.
[4:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[4:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Hope reach is Reading all Comments
Not only the conclusions
[4:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya and also balance the stress load.
[4:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: hahahah that's because ppl only been to zoo ask those who work in imh how many beautiful kids are in there .... excluding those who can go home and try to lead normal life ....
[4:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm
[4:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Social engagement, leadership, team cooperation - not so much about individual exam results.
[4:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: like i said before it takes 2 hands to clap -> society and agency
[4:05 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: society push the bar high , agency response .. how high do we want the bar .. like indonesia every where is a degree or master or phd ?
[4:05 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: i would suggest: 1) teaching character and social responsibility in the younger years eg kindergarten and lower primary (or maybe they already do, but that's probably undone at home....), 2) teaching critical thinking, 3) this is a systemic change overall and not just education, but recognising people for their work abilities rather than paper qualifications. some people are not book smart, but they can really work.
[4:05 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: In this case the hands are the parents/teachers and kids, the brains that synchronises them is the agency!
[4:06 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: how ever it be it is always 2 hands cannot find a fault and blame a single party
[4:06 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: same for the covid cases we seeing there is always 2 sides to a coin
[4:07 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: dun care whatever we argue there is a reasoning always from another end which must be acknowledge, each camp have their saying but is there a line to compromised and agree?
[4:07 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: same for the education thing
[4:08 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: ask any parents u want the best for your kids all say yes
[4:08 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: ask them u feel ur kid pressure - majority says yes
[4:09 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: ask them do you wish learning is made more fun and more useful instead of dead reading and memorizing - that's where we see the KS and the logical where the KS will say good to think logical so my kid can excel better then urs with dead reading
[4:09 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Wonder if don't use exam, quiz, test, project, assessment to measure how well a student understand the subject - how do people know whether the students has a good grasp of the subjects and the topics?
[4:13 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
2. Wonder if don't use exam for students to articulate their views and answer to solve problems using their critical thinking?
Then how to know whether the students do well in the subject or possess critical thinking?
3. Even boss in workforce will give projects to employees - and measures them in various yardstick to appraise the workers how well they do.
4. So are we preparing students for the workforce - or are we in the jest of releasing student stress - but not training our students to be ready for the workforce?
[4:13 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: place heavier weightage on continual assessment rather than a single do-or-die exam.
[4:14 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I thought our university, polytechnics are already doing this?
[4:14 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Yes, or 3 exams as they do now in Primary
[4:15 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: only at tertiary. but by then a bit late right? PSLE, Os and As are all do-or-die exams
[4:15 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: I'm not sure our Universities and Polys are the problem. it's more about Primary
[4:15 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Young kids doing tests, preparing tests or reviewing test. And then if they fail the tests then they are left with no where to go.
[4:15 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: you can be doing great along the way, but then stress cracks you at the last minute. or some people are just not great at handling exams. does that mean they're not good or they haven't learnt anything? no what
[4:16 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Also have to be doing great at all tests, cannot fail 1 of them or overall score drops
[4:17 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
So probably MOE will have to review a do or die psle, o and a level is a good method vis-a-vis continual assessment.
I have no problem with continual assessment.
[4:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: at least if you crash at one CA, you have the chance to pull up. if you crash at Os ah, that's it liao lor. gone. dead.
[4:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Poor at English? Fail, even if your Science is good. For example. Why does Primary give each kid an overall 'score' for the year based on the sucess of their tests?
[4:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: When I go to PTA, all they talk about really is the Test score - that's what they based the assessment on.
[4:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: ask ur self this as a pre school or primary scholler
[4:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Private clinics set to offer Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine in Singapore under special access route
The Chinese-made Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine can be administered in Singapore after at least one private healthcare provider received approval under the country's special access route.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sinopharm-covid-19-vaccine-singapore-special-access-route-15317168
[4:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: what does equtation mean to you
[4:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: does knowing equotation makes u a smarter person at that age
[4:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Jurong, Senoko fishery ports to get enhanced COVID-19 safe management measures
Enhanced safe management measures, such as restricting access to the marketplace as well as mandatory testing for those entering the ports, will be implemented at Singapore's two fishery ports, Jurong and Senoko.
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-jurong-senoko-fishery-port-safe-management-measures-15317088
[4:22 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: orh maybe ask parents now do u knwo how to solve ur primary kiddo school work
[4:23 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: or u need to go to the internet / kaypoh around / leave it to the tuition centre
[4:23 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: be honest ... if we can't solve it or takes more than 5mins to understand
[4:23 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: how does our little one feel
[4:23 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: note sec school and above is a different ball game
[4:24 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: preschooler and pri are the basic foundation yrs stress them and it cracks and the road for them will be not easy
[4:26 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
But I thought IB students don't need to take o level.
They use continual assessment - is it? - but that 16 years old guy still got mental stress.
So are we solving the right problem?
[4:27 pm, 28/07/2021] +Timothy Low: IP (Integrated Programme) is different from IB
[4:27 pm, 28/07/2021] +Timothy Low: River Valley is a IP school
[4:29 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Oh confusing.
Lost touch and don't know what is going on in the primary, secondary and the JCs.
Cannot comment much about improvement.
[4:29 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: is not only you
[4:29 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: i think many of us lost touch of the evolution of our school system
[4:29 pm, 28/07/2021] +Caleb: So late then implement?
[4:29 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: but one thng is clear the stress level is face byboth kiddo and parents
[4:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: ask urself why u need a pre school to know multiplication table
[4:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: what the hell they going to multiply
[4:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: tbh, i didn't feel particularly enlightened knowing what a quadratic equation is and learning how to do differentiation. maybe it's only because i didn't go into that space. but what i would really like to have learnt is, for lack of a better term, "how to adult". i would've liked to have learnt the basics of managing money, taxes, etiquette, how to interact with people, what is a healthy relationship, when to recognise signs of an abusive relationship, when do i know i need help etc etc.
perhaps this is something that should be taught at home and not in schools, but not everyone has the same environment and privilege to be learning this from their parents. maybe this shouldn't be a "class" in itself, but an ecosystem built into the school environment to simulate the real life.
[4:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: french fried / hamburgers / u tubies ?
[4:30 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: https://youtu.be/3zgFOMK2lqM
[4:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[4:31 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: what is really disturbing is this p6 will nail u bead if u can go poly or ITE
[4:32 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: what logic is that
[4:33 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: hello they are gowring age still they can evolve still not like us adults> stubborn / self righteous
[4:35 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm true
[4:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ah Heng: to retain they can go to a good sec or their fav school based on marks obtain is sgood as it is a motivation (positive and subtle approach)
[4:43 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Why not earlier!?
[4:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +Anne: Agree with you. Also we may need psychologists to help students diagnose symptoms of psychological issues - not just on any traumas or neglect the students face, but on whether they suffer from serious psychological issues like borderline, antisocial & narcissistic personality disorders. Also, how to manage anger, stress, do positive self talk, forgive, have empathy, etc.
[4:55 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
1. Coming to critical thinking.
2. Yesterday I was using a tree diagram mathematical model to project and predict whether through mass vaccination can we eradicate covid-19 pandemic - with my close friend in another discussion group.
3. Our sense is, with higher vaccination rate, like all other past pandemic, covid pandemic can be eradicated.
4. Then someone who is expert in AI predictive model and simulation point me to some models that can quite accurately predict how well we can curb the covid pandemic.
1 scenario on highly infectious variants like the delta variants with R0 = 8.
At 75% mass vaccination, we will likely to experience occasional outbreak - like what we are going through now.
The older covid strain will have been controlled by now with 75% vaccination.
The model didn't use 100% vaccination - which will be similar to curbing smallpox with 100% vaccination - completely defeat the covid pandemic.
[4:58 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
I was trying to use the tree diagram - 88% effective and 12% ineffective - using mRNA vaccines.
That AI guy saw it and laugh at me. He say even give you 10 times the size of the paper - the probability and permutations will overwhelm my paper.
He suggest using AI.
[5:01 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Note using the AI predictive model - under the old strain and the high immunity strain - 75% vaccination produce very good outcome.
Can almost curb covid pandemic into very minor outbreak.
[5:05 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
But for very infectious strain like Delta variants - notice that at 75% mass vaccination - we will still occasional face large outbreak.
Because 25% unvaccinated will form a Trojan - that will help to trigger the outbreak.
Also as the mRNA us only 88% effective, 12% lobang also help in the outbreak.
Based on the model projection, 100% vaccination through mandatory vaccination - will have completely defeat the covid pandemic just like smallpox pandemic.
That's why I push for mandatory vaccination.
This is critical thinking.
[5:09 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
8 countries imposing mandatory vaccination :-
1. Britain
2. France
3. Italy
4. Australia
5. Tajikistan
6. Turkmenistan
7. Greece
8. Saudi Arabia
[5:09 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
9. Indonesia
10. US states
[5:10 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-scrambling-to-deal-with-fourth-covid-19-wave
US to impose mandatory vaccination!
[5:10 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/vaccine-sceptic-died-covid-wished-turn-time-083959188.html
Vaccine sceptic wish he should have been vaccinated - else he wouldn't have to die
[5:10 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/selfish-people-refuse-vaccine-barred-161620455.html
UK call people who refuse to vaccinate selfish - and should be barred from events.
[5:10 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/mandatory-vaccines-students-attend-lectures-143344401.html
Mandatory vaccination for students in school in UK.
[5:11 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
More US states, employers, schools mandating covid vaccination.
The only way to defeat covid.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/more-us-states-employers-schools-likely-to-mandate-covid-19-15311574
[5:11 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/indonesia-considers-covid-19-booster-shots-for-wider-use-15310192
Indonesia planning 3rd dose as booster as 2 doses Sinovac not effective
[5:27 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya. Agree... trace together has vaccination status and such vaccination status should roll out to singpass app too, if doc certifies one not eligible to vaccinate or temporarily not eligible to vaccinate, suggest to update the status to "Not Eligible" or "Temporarily Not Eligible" in trace together app. Those stubbornly dun wan to vaccinate will always have Unvaccinated status.
[5:40 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
That's why public health policy must correspond to math and science.
Some people say, give chance lah, no differentiated treatment lah, no need to use effective vaccines lah...
Covid virus will not give chance.
Covid will behave as in their mother nature - strike and infect if we don't follow what science and math tell us to do.
Covid will exploit our Human weakness and strike mercilessly.
To defeat covid, our public health policy must use science and math to defeat them.
Appeal to emotions no used.
[5:40 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: this discussion pivoted from education to vaccination faster than KTVs pivoting to F&B! π€£
[5:41 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Because covid lockdown every one mah.
Contribute to student stress nah.
[5:42 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: but students got stress and still cannot vaccinate wor.
[5:43 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Hmm ...
Let us wait for the outcome of the trial for 12 years and below.
It should come out by late August or September.
[5:43 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: then vax already, chui for 2 days, then kena stress by parents for falling behind their schoolwork for 2 days because they were "resting"
[5:43 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: π€£
[5:44 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
After jab also can study.
[5:44 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: don't liddat lar..... give them 2 days to rest and recuperate from the sore arms, fatigue and maybe fever lah...
[5:45 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Well no hard and fast rule.
[5:49 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Forget to mention, if use Sinovac 50% efficacy - the outbreak is even worst at 75% vaccination.
That's why so disappointed that one group of private doctors press government to give it to our children - without understanding of how infectious disease work.
[5:49 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: like i was saying yesterday, i don't think that MOH is going to be the first to stick their necks out for mandatory vax for as long as the vaccine is still in EUA status. if more countries do, then maybe. if WHO says have to do that, then maybe. but until then, not very likely that MOH will stick their necks out like that. they'll probably start by making life more and more difficult for people who choose not to vaccinate, and if you choose not to vaccinate, there'll be less and less things you can do.
[5:50 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Now 10 countries mandate compulsory vaccination wor.
[5:51 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Our Minister won't say things without overseas background slowly formenting.
[5:51 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: from what i understood it's only in certain sectors and not across the whole population. i was appalled to read that the vaccination rates for those in eg healthcare are STILL not that high in some places!
[5:53 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Yes agree.
But soon mandatory vaccination will become more and more prevalent - and will cover the larger population.
Again coming back to the math and science model - certain segment mandatory vaccination won't work.
It has to cover the whole population - this is the mother nature of infectious disease.
[5:54 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: i don't disagree, i'm just saying that it's unlikely to happen now when it's still EUA. maybe if it gets the full approval then we can talk.
[5:55 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Agree.
Then we will have to wait and got to settle with occasional uncomfortable lockdown and some casualties.
[5:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: π
[5:58 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: π
[6:03 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes
[6:04 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Correctππ½
[6:05 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Hmm sad reality
[6:13 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: Yes achieveing 100% or at least 90% Vaccination Is important.
But before that risking Children lives?
Why are we ignoring that
Is it easy to deal.the stress to be In QO?
now they said punggol school Cleaner cluster ...(don't know its the family or students are there as well??)
What about The other school
Almost everyday we are seeing below 12 years new cases. Why No mention of anything about this group.
Even if One kid get very sick, for that family it's their live
For MOH and rest of us it might just be a number.
Don't understand why They care more about Schools and grades than health. Grades coming befor health. This is the reality. This is what is stressful about sg education system.
What ever happens They still want to conduct Exams.
π
[6:17 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Then when check in using safe entry and need to show for vaccinated vs unvaccinated status, can use traffic light colours as background colour.
Green for vaccinated
Yellow for those not eligible/ temporarily not eligible
Red for those unvaccinated.
[6:18 pm, 28/07/2021] +Elena Woo: Ya agree... health of children should be more impt than their grades. Why are grades more impt than lives?
[6:19 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-hospital-beds-capacity-cluster-grows-uncontrollably-15317128?cid=FBcna
[6:21 pm, 28/07/2021] +Suma pamu: I wonder beds and oxygen can Create how about health care staff?
How many on stand by nowπ
Especially for children and critical care staff
[6:25 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: ANYONE PLEASE VERIFY ABOVE FIGURES AND NEWS OUT OF ISRAEL IS FAKE??? Dated July 25 & 23, 2021
The situation in the United Kingdom is even worse. More vaccinated people died from the virus than the unvaccinated. As we reported late last month, data from Public Health England showed that more vaccinated people died of the Delta variant in the UK than the unvaccinated. The death rate is 8.45 times higher for the vaccinated...
With millions of people now vaccinated in the U.S., we now know that both Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are “therapeutic vaccines” and do not provide “sterile immunity” like the smallpox vaccines. Currently, these two vaccines do not provide a long-term cure for the virus. About every six months, every vaccinated person may now hav…
[6:34 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ken Loh: Lol
[6:36 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: 130 new locally transmitted COVID-19 cases in Singapore, including 48 unlinked infections
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-cases-jurong-fishery-cluster-unlinked-jul-28-moh-15314428
[6:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: The cases don’t seem to be coming down
[6:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Rama: Hopefully
[6:37 pm, 28/07/2021] +Alvin Lim: Like plateau
[6:37 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
130 local cases, 48 unlink - still so high.
[6:39 pm, 28/07/2021] +CQ: i've had a few friends who kena QO, and it's a common thread. the communications by MOH are horrendous!!! there's very little clarity on what to expect, hotlines are fake one, different people calling to ask for the same information, but different people telling them different things about "what's going to happen next".
[6:39 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Hospital beds could fill up in a week if a COVID-19 cluster grows 'uncontrollably': Ong Ye Kung
Protecting Singapore's healthcare system was a "deeper underlying reason" for going back to tighter COVID-19 measures in recent weeks, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung on Wednesday (Jul 28).
More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-hospital-beds-capacity-cluster-grows-uncontrollably-15317128
[6:40 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccinated-people-account-for-half-of-new-covid-19-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326
Delta Variant Outbreak in Israel Infects Some Vaccinated Adults
Government reimposes indoor mask requirement in light of preliminary findings
[6:41 pm, 28/07/2021] ☸️ Danny εΏ:
Vaccinated people don't get serious illness or death in Israel.
[6:50 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
⏰ We will be closing the chat in 10 minutes ⏰
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Best,
Megan
[6:56 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: Goodnight and thanks for today's topic, it was much needed and refreshing not to talk Covid!
[6:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Ben: oh, i see we got back to Covid at the end ππ
[6:57 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: Is Ken faking news???
[6:59 pm, 28/07/2021] +Smiley face: To: Distinguished Min Chan and All Honorable Members
Literacy, Numeracy & The Intangibles of Education
Knowledge and education goes hand in hand, schools and institutions of the Imperial China to the British Empire emphasise on graded examinations. The results of these exams will quantify and qualify who are the high-achievers and lessers.
Knowledge about life is important! Who we are, what are our beliefs and life itself. These life experiences (good & bad) itself shapes a society, families and who we are when we are adults.
Mental health is just as important or more than physical wellbeing. Eating disorder. attention deficit, temperament issues are early warnings before it manifest into a larger explosion that may occur in school or out of school. Unlike the Westerners, we Asian often do not speak up or seek help when we facing challenges. Going forward each school pastoral care services will have to be more vigilant, accessible and on higher gearing to be ahead of things. Perhaps MOE should redeploy additional counsellors (renamed it as MENTOR to play down any stigma) for each level across primary or secondary to trial test sets of psychological protocols to cast the safety net wider and IDENTIFYING individuals that need help and EDUCATIONAL talks on how to manage STRESS at various levels. One child lost is too much to stomach!
In summary, knowledge can be a social mobility tool for an individual, a family and a country. For all goodness or badness, to each his/her life journey - to learn!
Quotations:
If you want to reach your goals and dreams, you cannot do it without discipline”
-- Lee Kuan Yew
Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving
-- Dale Carnegie
success is the sum of struggles. challenges and failures!"
-- Ian T
[7:00 pm, 28/07/2021] +REACH: Dear Contributors,
We will be closing the chat for today.
Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.
Goodnight!
Megan π
======
