REACH 156 - Work Income Supplement for low-income workers (SK)

23 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[11:47 am, 23/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

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REACH

[11:48 am, 23/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

What do you think of the Government’s increased support for lower-income Singaporean workers through the Workfare Income Supplement Scheme?

470,000 lower-income Singaporean workers who are on the Workfare Income Supplement (WIS) Scheme will receive $810 million in Workfare Special Payment (WSP) in October, said the Ministry of Finance on Friday (Oct 23).

In his Ministerial Statement on Aug 17, Deputy Prime Minister Heng Swee Keat had announced that WSP eligibility will be widened to include more than 70,000 additional workers, who will receive the WIS for their work done in 2020, and who are not already receiving the WSP.

These lower-income Singaporean workers will receive their October payout of the WSP from Oct 28. Most of them would have q…

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Rama

[11:51 am, 23/10/2020] +: Much needed

+ changed the group description. Click to view.

Sam

[12:02 pm, 23/10/2020] +: This is killing few birds with one stone approach. Dishing out financial assistance to lower income group while encouraging them to continue to work, also helping company to keep workers, further differentiating wage competitiveness for local against FW.

[12:15 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Providing financial assistance to low income workers.

2. Subsidizing mature workers salary to help mature workers secure jobs achieve 2 objectives :-

a. Help workers secure jobs and bring home higher salary.

b. Redistribution of wealth and an attempt to narrow social inequality.

Both are good social objectives.

However, this must be finance through running government budget or budget surplus.

It must not be finance by digging into our sovereign fund or our reserves.

[12:17 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Covid budget bearing fruit in reducing bankruptcies.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-21/asia-defies-dire-predictions-of-a-massive-spike-in-bankruptcies

[12:25 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

In other words, these social objectives must be sustainable - finance by annual running government budget.

[12:27 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

US dollars remain vulnerable

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/22/the-dollar-remains-vulnerable-to-significant-depreciation-standard-chartered.html

[12:30 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://equalocean.com/analysis/2020061214085

[12:31 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore can still play a role as yuan currency exchange in China digital yuan DCEP.

[12:41 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But ultimately, 

1. Low income workers - should upgrade their salary by upgrading their productivity and pay them higher salaries through PWM.

2. For mature workers, should transform their jobs and skillsets through ITM and pay them good salaries.

This will help government to slowly dispense with the needs to provide financial assistance - but instead rely on business and workers skillsets and higher productivity to self finance

[12:55 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My close friend comments:-

What about those who lost their jobs. They lose their workfare? Double whammy

Caleb

[12:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I am concern the number of people that are on lower-income. 500K out of 2.3 million workforce. 

https://stats.mom.gov.sg/Pages/Labour-Force-Summary-Table.aspx

Ana

[1:09 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Payouts shouldn't be the norm. A minimum wage should be.

Rama

[1:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: MW against PWM!?

[1:12 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: [19/10, 

1:44 pm] ☸️  Danny 心: 

"The whole process in formulating this PWM is not based on mere 'folksy beliefs' - it is thoroughly negotiated based on hard data and a firm grasp of current workers' issues," he said. He added that with the PWM for the lift and escalator sector, entry-level lift technicians will earn minimally $1,850 per month.

"How would the proposed minimum wage of $1,300 even be meaningful? A minimum wage is too simplistic and does not reflect the realities of this sector," he said in his letter.

[19/10, 1:45 pm] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is the problem with minimum wage $1300.

It is plug from the air - not grounded on economic basis.

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Rama

[1:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 😅🤣😂

[1:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Peg to MOM?

[1:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes .. if I am the employer wants to pay higher than the minimum wage to my workers esp if my business is small scale or labour intensive .   Another problem arise too - wage for part timer too.  Those who need 2 jobs to survive will suffer even more .

[1:49 pm, 23/10/2020] +: https://ntuc.org.sg/wps/wcm/connect/21cc6751-001b-4587-b3de-049c28d6f0e3/TCC+Enhanced+PWM+Skills+Ladder+Recommendations+Report+%283+Dec+2019%29.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

[1:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I heard there are some formulas that not easy to understand

[1:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/wp-chief-pritam-singh-calls-for-universal-minimum-wage-with-1300-base

Former nominated MP and Singapore University of Social Sciences economist Walter Theseira told The Straits Times that a universal minimum wage would effectively be a PWM covering sectors where the prevailing wages are at, or close to, $1,300.

[1:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +Perhaps that’s how the $1300 came about. Not plugged from air

[1:51 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Now you know every industries are unique.

Cannot anyhow force fit minimum wages $1300 to all industries.

Must use PWM to transform business and jobs to increase productivity and then increase their pay.

Forcefully increase their pay to $1300 will only force the boss to fire their workers as their business no longer become viable.

[1:52 pm, 23/10/2020] +: https://ntuc.org.sg/wps/wcm/connect/21cc6751-001b-4587-b3de-049c28d6f0e3/TCC+Enhanced+PWM+Skills+Ladder+Recommendations+Report+%283+Dec+2019%29.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

[1:52 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Over 4 year up almost 30% can company survive 😅😅😅

[1:52 pm, 23/10/2020] +: PS didn’t explain .. so it is a wild guess .. just to make people like us still talking about it weeks  .. lol . They had succeed to build a narrative to bounce off the real discussion of jobs and economy .  Matter of fact , people who hadn’t got pay rise for years felt this is the way to move forward .. haiz

[1:53 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So WP MP theory of close to $1300 is not true because there are still business advertising at $800.

[1:53 pm, 23/10/2020] +: So they pass the cost to the companies to use them .. most Govt agencies

[1:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +Need to run more studies and research to see if it will be true

[1:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Depends on work hours 😅

So really hard to say.... $1300 should be based on 8 hours x 22 days work

[1:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: $1300 work 60 hours 

Or 

$1300 work 40 hours makes a difference he didn’t really go deep into won’t know

[1:55 pm, 23/10/2020] +: My poly boys moonlight 1 month received  more than 1.3k ..  super subjective lah

[1:55 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As far as I know many low income workers still fetching $800, $1000, $1200. 

Else this small business cannot survive.

[1:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +I searched based on full time jobs, didn’t state the number of work hours

[1:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yah... so we won’t really know what is the real amount and how MOM define $1300 per month is based on work hours? Or work day etc

[1:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I knew a man on social assistance cried after he got a pay rise from $1300 to $1500 ..  many strange things below .. got to check case by case

[1:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +But I don’t know those lowly paid workers can survive or not, seeing how  much we need to earn to survive in Singapore

[1:57 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Even MacDonald advertise at $1200.

[1:58 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Do they include perks? Many company is a bit different... some have transport, food and lodging

[1:58 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

They are surviving as far as I know - but not ideal.

Only PWM will help them. Not minimum wages.

Minimum wage will take away their jobs and kill them.

[1:59 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That one I don't know.

I heard from someone.

[1:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: But 30% increase over 4 years is good job done I think.by setting the standard pay there is companies cannot find workers they will adjust to meet government standard

[1:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: My sister-in-law is FTE with one of the hotels in sg and she's special needs. She draws below 1k monthly income before take home.

[1:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: $7 per hr at MacDonald

[2:00 pm, 23/10/2020] +By going by Danny’s logic will these businesses die because need to pay more wages?

[2:00 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Depends on business... some might go down..

[2:00 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Unless business transform - using the kachang puteh analogy.

[2:01 pm, 23/10/2020] +: But weed out the weak so that people can live better life?

[2:01 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Else business will die 100%.

[2:02 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Business are still jobs for the owners.

Don't tell me you don't need barber, hawker food, value shops etc.

[2:03 pm, 23/10/2020] +: That’s what meant .. only G intervention can solve the problem with this group .  we need to enable them and let me live with dignity and pride .

[2:03 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Depends on how much work is required, sometime physical challenge is hard to find job. Hence pay been push down ☹️ but really depends on the workload hard to tell by just money amount

[2:03 pm, 23/10/2020] +: That is natural selection . No choice .

[2:05 pm, 23/10/2020] +: If not Canada/Iceland how to have $2k $3k cleaner? 🤣

[2:07 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Min month pay not too bad already... wait till you go min pay by hours... that one think many companies cannot handle

[2:08 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Hence I mention these are those who fell in between the gaps

[2:08 pm, 23/10/2020] +: She works same load as others just that you need to instruct her what to do

[2:08 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As government try to improve the salary of the low income workers, the government is also trying to improve small business and make them profitable.

If business survive and do well, workers will also get higher salary.

Cannot one sided increase workers salary and make business fold up.

This is what WP MP want to do. See one side but blind to another side.

Both business and workers income must be uplifted by PWM and ITM.

Workers are dependent on business survival and vice versa.

[2:09 pm, 23/10/2020] +: My friend having similar issues, hence I know... but we also need to know that they have grants and other help. Which normal people don’t get.

[2:09 pm, 23/10/2020] +: what grants? lol

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: she doesn't get anything more than her salary

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Did she job handicap welfare associations? And other related groups?

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: but low wage have a benefit

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: she still has a job

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: nope

[2:10 pm, 23/10/2020] +: There are many grants..

[2:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Ask her to join they will guide her

[2:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: she's special needs as in low intellect

[2:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: she's physically abled

[2:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Low income tax :3

[2:13 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Hmm.. then is mental challenge, then need lots of guide from the company. So don’t expect high pay 😅

Capacity is a bit different 😓

[2:13 pm, 23/10/2020] +: But I think should still have some help, if you join like MINDS and stuff

[2:13 pm, 23/10/2020] +: True in a way, company has to accommodate

[2:16 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Is the company obligated to retain her? I'd like to understand about the job security part

[2:17 pm, 23/10/2020] +: but moving down the road, I think it would be nice if the government have some form of plan/assistance/subsidy for workers with special needs 😕

[2:17 pm, 23/10/2020] +: from what i know there are many others like her with special needs

[2:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +: The only one I know of is the travel concession card by SG Enabled

[2:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +: adhd, as, asd etc

[2:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +: There are many in Singapore... not easy for them to find job that’s for sure

[2:19 pm, 23/10/2020] +: they all can work

[2:19 pm, 23/10/2020] +: just need a little help

[2:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Check out one of those place that hires special needs  -  Dignity Kitchen

[2:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: No income tax bro :3

[2:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: A little help but lots of work for the company... to make sure it is safe for her/him cause anything will be bad press 😅

[2:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Even better!

[2:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: In my humble opinion ah, It would be nice if the company can get certain tax rebates if they hire staff with special needs, that could potentially encourage more companies to hrie them

[2:21 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes not expecting high pay but not even close to PWM pay

[2:21 pm, 23/10/2020] +: There are some schemes available

[2:22 pm, 23/10/2020] +: There is... but the length they have to go to hire them... not so easy, and MNC if any thing happen to them as staff another issue hence you don’t see many companies specially big ones take them in so much...

Other than like Mac, MOS and KFC example

[2:22 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Eg  grants for doing up office wheelchair friendly.

[2:22 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Work to be design for special needs I different lots of work to be in place

[2:23 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes... the work flow has to be customised .  Btw they often have ‘Bad’ days too ..

[2:23 pm, 23/10/2020] +: You would rather hire someone normal for the same pay if someone is willing to work at that rate? Just fact 😅

[2:24 pm, 23/10/2020] +: nah there's not many who would take the job

[2:24 pm, 23/10/2020] +: mostly are malaysians

[2:25 pm, 23/10/2020] +: locals almost none

[2:25 pm, 23/10/2020] +: But Malaysian are normal.... so no need guide.. if they can they will hire all Malaysian

[2:25 pm, 23/10/2020] +: yes hence i'm saying more help for special needs ppl lor

[2:25 pm, 23/10/2020] +: i didn't say company must pay more

[2:26 pm, 23/10/2020] +: i'm saying gov can intervene and help here

[2:26 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Most company will get some form of grant, and usually these staff they put them in non sensitive assignment

[2:28 pm, 23/10/2020] +: yes of cos. there are already grants in place as Leonard mentioned.

[2:29 pm, 23/10/2020] +: and she does backend work like cleaning the backroom etc

[3:05 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. WP minimum wage is - increase workers salary without increasing business income - business fail fire workers.

2. ITM transform business to earn higher income, PWM restructure workers jobs and then pay them higher salary.

So 2 is better than 1.

WP MP kill business and then kill worker's jobs.

ITM and PWM increase business income and worker's salary.

So choose 1 or 2?

[3:05 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

WP incompetency in governance manifested.

Rama

[3:08 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 2

[3:13 pm, 23/10/2020] +: S'poreans least worried among S-E Asians about getting Covid-19, but less secure about jobs: Poll https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singaporeans-least-worried-about-getting-covid-19-in-south-east-asia-but-less-confident-of?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

[3:15 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Chief Justice grants leave to probe DPPs for misconduct in former maid Parti Liyani case https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/chief-justice-menon-grants-leave-to-probe-dpps-in-parti-liyani-case?&utm_source=whatsapp&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

[3:16 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And yet WP want to bulldoze minimum wage - and cause business to fail and fire workers faster.

Rama

[3:17 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Lack of foresight!

CQ

[3:42 pm, 23/10/2020] +: i think we shouldn't get too partisan about the whole MW vs PWM issue. i would say that WP's starting position is not a bad one, because it's the fastest way to elevate the wages of those who are earning below the living wage line and PWM just takes way too long to reach everyone. the assumption that businesses will fold just because there's MW is a bit of a leap in logic, because we don't actually know what their profit margins are. perhaps if the business owners are prepared to take a smaller margin, pay themselves a little less and try to keep everyone's jobs, it would be feasible. however that's also a huge assumption to make, that everyone is inherently altruistic; not everyone can be like Teo Heng's boss. so it'd be best to consider the pros and cons of MW vs PWM objectively without considering which party came up with the idea. a proposal is still a proposal.

[4:05 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So you only come from the position of workers but not from the point of business?

[4:06 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Many businesses already fold up without minimum wages.

Minimum wages will make it worst.

CQ

[4:06 pm, 23/10/2020] +: no i'm not saying that. all i'm saying is don't make this partisan. a proposal is a proposal, consider it for what it is without saying WP or PAP or whatever.

[4:09 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Union leaders and workers have ruled out minimum wages and are unhappy with minimum wages - reported by straits times.

[4:11 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/union-leaders-unhappy-with-workers-party-mp-jamus-lims-remarks-on-minimum-wage                                          As expected, Union unhappy with Jamus Lim minimum wages.

[4:13 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I expect representatives in parliament to be of higher governance standard - because they are dealing with the lives of Singaporeans and Singapore.

Rama

[4:15 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Agree

[4:15 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes

[4:15 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Agree

[4:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Agreed. I'm glad there's active conversation about it. It really speaks poorly about our unions for being only that in name, and for not fighting for the rights of employees.

[4:19 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I concur!

[4:19 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I conquer

[4:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 😅😅😂

[4:21 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Union got $1850 for lift employees.

What did WP MP did?

[4:22 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. WP minimum wage is - increase workers salary without increasing business income - business fail fire workers.

2. ITM transform business to earn higher income, PWM restructure workers jobs and then pay them higher salary.

So 2 is better than 1.

WP MP kill business and then kill worker's jobs.

ITM and PWM increase business income and worker's salary.

So choose 1 or 2?

[4:22 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is what WP MP do.

Ana

[4:23 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I'm not a fan of the WP, but we can't keep blaming things on them that they don't have the political influence to impact 😅

[4:26 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Their ideas don't work and make things worst.

Timothy Low

[4:27 pm, 23/10/2020] +To be honest MW is not going to be implemented cause WP is not forming the government this time round. So no point having this discussion?

[4:28 pm, 23/10/2020] +Can’t help but to think that someone is very keen to talk down on WP.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:29 pm, 23/10/2020] +: You're not wrong 🤭

[4:29 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I talk down on ideas that doesn't work.

[4:30 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And WP is the champions of minimum wages.

Ana

[4:30 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Imo Singapore has a competent government. I don't want that to change, no matter which political party/ies they're made of.

But for a viable policy go be implemented, there needs to be conversations. From there, ideas. Which may fail! But which may also succeed

[4:30 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

 They've been talking about minimum wages for many years already.

Timothy Low

[4:30 pm, 23/10/2020] +In that case just criticise MW will do. No point keep on harping that “WP kill business and then workers job” etc sweeping statement

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:31 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 👏

Rama

[4:31 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Not even with a two party government will yhis matetialis

[4:31 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes

[4:32 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And good that this minimum wage is shot down.

Timothy Low

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] +Ultimately all parties want the best for Singapore, no single party will want Singapore to fail. So let’s just discuss about the ideas and policies, and let’s avoid being partisan here

CQ

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] +: yep... that's the point i was trying to make... you discuss the issue, not the party backing it. for better or for worse, they

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] +: *everyone's trying to make things better for Singapore and Singaporeans

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 👍

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] +: We here to discuss issue, not here to create issue 🤭

[4:33 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Shot down by govt, union and business - tripartite alliance.

So how useful can this minimum wage be?

Timothy Low

[4:34 pm, 23/10/2020] +Ok we get your point. MW is not beneficial for Singapore.

[4:41 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Oh WP raise the idea of wanting to implement retrenchment insurance.

You think the idea is good and how it will affect the economy?

Berny

[4:43 pm, 23/10/2020] +: On this note on the retrenchment insurance, anyone knows why the "pensioner scheme" was being removed/phased out?

[4:45 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

 But WP is a champion of this retrenchment insurance for many years.

Rama

[4:45 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Very long time ago

Berny

[4:45 pm, 23/10/2020] +: let's not talk about political parties

[4:46 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes, but why was it removed?

Rama

[4:46 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Cpf took over.

Berny

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: wait, please correct me if i'm wrong, meaning those who are pensioners and is currently in the workforce, is not getting cpf?

CQ

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: But is retrenchment insurance such a bad proposal? We have insurance for unforeseeable health issues, why not insurance for retrenchment? Again, consider the issue, not the party championing it.

Timothy Low

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +I think pension scheme will cause more money for the government

Berny

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I know 1 guy who happened to be the last batch of the pensioner scheme

Rama

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Great

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:47 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Someone long time never see bell already 🤭

Berny

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: so that means, he isnt getting the CPF?

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: or is he getting the pension on top of his retirement scheme

Timothy Low

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +I think Those on pension scheme don’t need to contribute CPF

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +And after retirement every month receive a sum of money till he/she is dead

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +But only for civil servants right?

Lim

[4:48 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Politics aside, it is overly simplistic to say that MW or retrenchment insurance will collapse the economy/ certain industry sector

CQ

[4:49 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yep

Lim

[4:49 pm, 23/10/2020] +: We should look at real world evidence where such policies have been implemented and the resultant positive/ negative impact...

Berny

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I dont think MW will cause company to collapse/get staff retrenched tbh

Timothy Low

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +Too many factors to be considered. So let’s avoid any sweeping statement

Lim

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Old time civil servants only. Nowadays one don have already, if i am not wrong

Berny

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: end of the day, the raising cost will be passed on to the end consumer

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: very long no more liao

Timothy Low

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +Yes now don’t have liao

Berny

[4:50 pm, 23/10/2020] +: that happy guy is now 67 I think, lucky guy to be in the last batch

Rama

[4:51 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Yes

Berny

[4:51 pm, 23/10/2020] +: but to be objective on the MW and PWM ah, 1 gives you a flat increase, the other encourage you to work and upgrade for the increase

Rama

[4:52 pm, 23/10/2020] +: PWM is the way forward

Berny

[4:53 pm, 23/10/2020] +: and 1 is a sweeping policy that increase to all sector (correct me if i'm wrong on this), PWM only applies to certain sector

[4:53 pm, 23/10/2020] +: both has their own pros and cons

Rama

[4:53 pm, 23/10/2020] +: PWM now being expanded to waste management sector

Lim

[4:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Based on what i have heard, i prefer PWM with faster implementation; a lot of low wage workers need support

Berny

[4:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: lift also

Rama

[4:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Great

Berny

[4:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: lift is 2022 i think

Rama

[4:54 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Understanding of the particular industry takes time.

Berny

[4:55 pm, 23/10/2020] +: imo, both PWM and MW are feasible in singapore, what matters is which scheme is to be applied to which industry

[4:55 pm, 23/10/2020] +: eg. PWM on dish washers, what's there to "upgrade" on? the most that I can think of is to operate machinery

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: hence, MW may be more suitable for this role, imo

Rama

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Can industry, union and employee support accept?

CQ

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: "how to wash better, faster and produce a squeak squeak" 😆

Lim

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: 😂

Berny

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: if it is pushed down from the top, employers have to suck thumb and accept, just like PWM

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:56 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Wash until squeaky clean? Wash faster? 😂

Rama

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: So, remote possibly in say ten years from now?

Berny

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: I work for MCST, aka employer for several contractors, the PWM dropped like a bomb to us for cleaner, gardener and security, and now lift

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Basically learn from mobility lah, there's no one-size-fits-all

Rama

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Great 🤣😂😅

Berny

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] +: and there's no way we can say no to the increase because it dropped from the sky

[4:57 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

[12:15 pm, 07/09/2020] ☸️

Part 2 - The benefit or consequences of implementing Retrenchment Insurance

b. Retrenchment Insurance

My comments:-

- Retrenchments insurance is meant to provide temporary relief to people when they suddenly go retrenched.

- But it have many drawbacks if implemented - because it does not solve the problems of sustained earnings for the people. 

- The drawbacks are :-

(i) Retrenchment insurance blunt people's motivation to work. If people received monthly retrenchment benefits, where is the motivation to work? No need to work also got money to take, then why work?

When this happen, Singaporeans no longer want to work - our workforce get depleted and business without workers will leave Singapore - and our Economy will collapse.

(ii) Also who pay for the retrenchment insurance premium?

- Some people say Employer pay. This means retrenchment insurance will add additional cost to business - and it means employers will reduce the salary of each workers or worst, no incentives to employ Singaporans as Singaporean workers are more expensive.

- Thus, business will either employ more foreign workers or leave Singapore.

- Then some people say, make Singaporean workers pay for the retrenchment insurance premium.

- What this mean is that - If pay by Singaporean workers, they will have less disposable income to spend for their daily living.

- Also currently, Employers and Singaporean Employees are already putting in money for CPF --- by forcing employers or employees to set aside money for retrenchment insurance premium --- it will make Singapore uncompetitive to the World labour market.

- Unless Singaporean workers set aside some money to buy their own insurance as savings ---- for rainy days - in the event some career crisis happens.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:58 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Increase better than decrease ma, just take it! 😂

Berny

[4:58 pm, 23/10/2020] +: that will mean increase in contributions for all owners

CQ

[4:58 pm, 23/10/2020] +: i think in whatever implementation, there should be a sunrise period so that businesses can also adapt and calculate their costs/recalibrate their profit margins. just a question of how long this sunrise period should be lah

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Orh I forgot you from employer perspective hahaha psps

Berny

[4:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: there is, like for lift, 2022, 2 years from announcement

Rama

[4:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Should this cover senior citizens or just the young and able bodied?

Berny

[4:59 pm, 23/10/2020] +: no worries, but end of the day, the cost will be pushed down along the line to all the end consumer

Timothy Low

[5:03 pm, 23/10/2020] +Just thinking, if one day got retrenched for a substained period of time, perhaps the government can allow them to draw out a small sum of money from CPF for emergency use?

[5:03 pm, 23/10/2020] +This can be in place of retrenchment insurance

[5:08 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Find new jobs for the retrenched will be sustainable.

Draw out CPF will deplete their retirement fund - and not sustainable.

Berny

[5:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: what's the diff between paynow and paylah?

CQ

[5:11 pm, 23/10/2020] +: different banks

Timothy Low

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +Of course in the long run finding new job will be sustainable. 

The keyword is substained unemployment. If let’s say for a few months still can’t find a job can just allow them to tap like max 1% of cpf money for emergencies. Won’t be depleting the cpf money

Caleb

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Paylah us for consumers with dbs only

Blue and White Flag Guy

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +: PayLah is DBS one, PayNow is more like a network across the major banks

Berny

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +: but dbs got both right?

Caleb

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +: PayNow is can pay to alot of different banks

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Pay now is universal sq qr code.

Paylah is dbs bank we code.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[5:12 pm, 23/10/2020] +: Eh but PayLah is like pioneer in this sector, then one by one you see OCBC Pay Anyone, UOB Mighty, etc

Berny

[5:13 pm, 23/10/2020] +: they also using paynow

[5:14 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Some people already finance their property with CPF and leave only medisave and retirement.

How will that help?

Timothy Low

[5:15 pm, 23/10/2020] +Of course, only allow people to tap if they have money in ordinary account instead.

[5:16 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I not in favour of tapping CPF.

I favour government step in to train workers, pay workers training allowance, and then place them in jobs.

CPF is for retirement.

[5:18 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Else if people have easy money, they are not motivated to look for jobs.

Timothy Low

[5:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +I think you misunderstood. What I meant was to only tap a very small % (eg 1%) to tide over the raining days while government help them to find for jobs

[5:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +Or train them for new jobs

[5:18 pm, 23/10/2020] +99% left for retirement

[5:19 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If govt give you $1200 training allowance every month while you train and then place into a job, do you still need to tap into CPF?

Timothy Low

[5:20 pm, 23/10/2020] +Oh! If training allowance is given then don’t need lor

[5:20 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's my point.

The government is doing it now.

Timothy Low

[5:23 pm, 23/10/2020] +Is the government giving training allowance to every unemployed? If yes that’s great

[5:24 pm, 23/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is what I know.

But need to register with e2i I think.

You need to register and check with career coach.

=======

REACH 155 - Prepare Phase 3 Opening (SK)

21 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:19 am, 21/10/2020] +: TraceTogether check-ins will soon be compulsory at public places in Singapore. Need to collect a token?

Here's what you should know:

https://str.sg/J8zn

[10:54 am, 21/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 11 am to 7 pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. Thank you.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Megan 😊

REACG

[10:58 am, 21/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

What are your views on the latest announcement of Singapore's roadmap to Phase 3 of safe re-opening? 

Singapore may enter phase three of its reopening by the end of this year, should community cases remain low as the country intensifies testing and contact tracing, said the multi-ministry task force handling Covid-19.

As part of phase three, the size of gatherings outside homes could be increased from five to eight people. Similarly, eight visitors could be allowed on home visits, allowing larger families to congregate.

In addition, capacity limits in venues such as museums, places of worship and wedding receptions may be increased, with multiple zones of 50 people permitted.

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-could-enter-ph…

+changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

REACH

[11:02 am, 21/10/2020] +: great that Gov, release their plans and the T&C then all must use TT.

REACH

[11:03 am, 21/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg - 21 Oct]

To move safely into Phase 3, we need: 

😷 Small group sizes, safe distancing, social responsibility

📱 Higher adoption of TraceTogether (TT)

- For quick contact tracing as group sizes increase

- Download the app or collect the token at token.gowhere.gov.sg

🦠 Pre-event Covid-19 testing

- For larger-scale & higher-risk activities

- Participants to be tested before events

- Trials at B2B events, wedding receptions etc

✔️ What to expect in Phase 3:

- 8-person gatherings (up from current 5)

- Multiple zones of 50 pax for events

- More travel to resume

❌ Certain high risk activities may not resume:

- E.g. bars, pubs, karaoke lounges & nightclubs

- Exploring limited pilots for this industry to resume safely

More: go.gov.sg/roadmap-to-phase3

-----

Ana

[11:09 am, 21/10/2020] +: I'm glad about the insurance and subsidies coverage for travel overseas. Don't plan to travel, but just in case, will this apply only to green lane agreements or globally?

Rama

[11:09 am, 21/10/2020] +: Government is treading carefully

Caleb

[11:10 am, 21/10/2020] +: am very happy that they are making TT compulsory. Hopefully, we will never trip again in CB.

Jamie Bethany Koh

[11:15 am, 21/10/2020] +: sorry, a off topic comment

would actually like to raise a concern on this - understand it is imperative to get our air travel up and running asap

but how do we mitigate this viz-a-viz the high number of daily cases there? just yest 420 new cases reported in NY alone

Ben

[11:16 am, 21/10/2020] +: 100% support this plan. Great that Gov is so transparent, clear minded and disciplined. Require T&T app or token to be mandatory for all visitors, or at least a token to be issued while attending large events.

Alvin

[11:17 am, 21/10/2020] +: As long as it’s well planned with a clear roadmap to reopening the general public will be fine with it. I feel more confident with LW giving the plan actually.

Ben

[11:18 am, 21/10/2020] +: Mandatory testing before departure and on arrival and again testing 48 hours after arrival. It's not 100% safe for those on the flight,but this would catch most cases before they become contagious.

Alvin

[11:19 am, 21/10/2020] +: Agree we need to take extra precautions. I was surprised when SQ announced it too. I tot US is pretty much goner when it comes to reopening air travel.

Ben

[11:19 am, 21/10/2020] +: I am sorry for the night clubs, but they are just too risky.

Rama

[11:20 am, 21/10/2020] +: Trade off since progressive opening up of travel is imperative to economic survival.  3% probable rate of negative results test within tolerance

[11:31 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The TT token is still not available in many areas yet.

[11:32 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

There are already 38 community centres (CCs) today distributing tokens. 

By end November, TT Tokens will be made available at all 108 CCs islandwide.

-----

[11:32 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

Prospects for Singapore semiconductor industry very bright, says Chan Chun Sing

Ovais Subhani

PUBLISHED OCT 19, 2020, 11:30 AM SGT

The semiconductor industry's contribution to Singapore's gross domestic product has increased from less than 1 per cent in 1990 to 6.9 per cent in 2019, he added.

In the first six months of 2020, the semiconductor industry's output increased 1.7 per cent year on year, even as the overall economy suffered its worst-ever recession.

"This is indeed a crisis of a generation, but we have every chance to turn this into an opportunity of a generation," said Mr Chan.

He said that if Singapore plays its cards right, if it provides the kind of environment where it can serve different markets, even in a bifurcating or fragmenting world, it can turn the Covid-19 crisis into an opportunity for the country.

----

[6:19 pm, 15/10/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心: 

In short, PM Lee's most feared "bifurcation" - in technology, economic and finance - has occured.

Break up into 2 main branches - US and China has occurred.

And the chances of escalation into WW3 is increasingly likely.

Yes someone mention 6000 people in the whole world can happen.

[5:54 pm, 25/08/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心:

(9) A narrative emerge after observing the many US sanctions taken against China - trade war, tech company sanctions etc.

- "The real reason why US want to economically strangle China - not because of communism.

But because China do too well economically in finance, as manufacturing hub, in silk road, in technology development, in trade, in global supply chain, in social media etc."

- "China has beaten US in its game of capitalism - and outclass US in many aspects that US previously reign supreme.

Communism is just a label use by US to unify US calling of the West to stand by its side to sanction China in a bid to blunt China's advancement and development."

(10) If the above narrative hold true --- Singapore will need to fine tune our foreign policies, trade policies, external economy etc --- to take into account the sesimic geopolitical tussle ---- "not just confine to the impact cause by virus pandemic only".

[7:01 pm, 28/08/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Check out how the global supply chain moved - as the geopolitical tussle deepen and widen - and see how China and SE Asia countries emerge winners at the expense of American firms.

Singapore must understand this changing dynamic - and seize the changing dynamic to insert ourselves into the changed global supply chain and maintain our relevancy as well as secure or improve our trade - amidst the sesimic geopolitical tussle.

======

[11:33 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

Impossible plant-based meat goes on sale in FairPrice supermarkets and RedMart

Tan Hsueh Yun

Food Editor

PUBLISHED 20 October 2020

Home cooks here will be able to buy Impossible, a plant-based meat substitute made by Impossible Foods in the United States, in 79 FairPrice stores and from online grocer RedMart starting this week.

A 340g pack will sell for $16.90, or about $5 for 100g, more expensive than a lot of supermarket ground beef. RedMart, for example, sells Master Grocer Australia's premium frozen grassfed minced beef for $6.95 for a 500g pack, which works out to $1.39 for 100g.

Still, the American company, headquartered in Silicon Valley, is banking on curious home cooks snapping up the product. It says retail sales of Impossible in US stores grew more than 50 times within six months of its retail roll-out.

Asked about the price, he said the company was committed to reducing the price of its products, but would not say if Impossible planned to open a plant in Asia to manufacture the plant-based meat. He said, however, that any "high quality manufacturing facility" would be able to make the product.

Aside from Singapore, the plant-based meat, made from soya protein, is also being sold in PARKnSHOP supermarkets in Hong Kong. The product was launched in both cities in March 2019, and to date, some 550 restaurants in Singapore, and about 700 restaurants in Hong Kong and Macau, serve it.

After causing a stir with its beef substitute, which tastes like the real thing, he is gunning for the pork market.

Pigs are the most widely eaten animal in the world, accounting for about 38 per cent of meat production worldwide.

"Even worse than cows, using pigs to make pork poses major threats to public health. Swine and avian flus are the most likely pandemic vectors because they pass easily to humans via faeces in slaughterhouses. 

A University of Minnesota study discovered faecal matter in 69 per cent of pork, and a devastating case of African swine fever has already wiped out roughly one-quarter of the world's pigs and is expected to drive up worldwide prices of animal protein."

-------------

[1:50 pm, 04/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

REACH - Long term plan to prevent future virus pandemic

2 Aug 2020

REACH

Chapter 1

Scientists has proven that virus jump host from animals to human - eg. Swine flu, bird flu, covid, SARS, H1N1 etc - due to people slaughtering of animals for food.

That why is urging government to spend more efforts and resources to R&D on alternative food source such as :-

1. Vegetarian food

2. Vegan base meat

3. 3D-printed vegan base meat

4. Cell culture and tissue re-engineering meat

5. Beyond meat

All the above suggestions will not slaughter animals for meat.

Number 4 involve extracting some cells, blood and tissues from live animals - but will not kills the animals.

It is just like humans donating blood or plasma or tissue - that will earn good deeds and merits for the animals.

Chapter 2

If the R&D for the above alternative food source are successful, then it will also resolve the global climate change - because rearing animal for food for 1 hectares plot of land will require to plant 10 hectares plot of land to grow grain to feed the animals.

The above alternative food source will only require to plant 1 hectare plot of land to feed the same number of human - and resolve the global climate change.

Also, it will open up a new economic sector for Singapore - high tech agro industry and create new jobs for Singaporean.

Chapter 3

The above proposal will have achieve 4 objectives :-

1. Stop slaughtering of animals for food and reduce animals sufferings.

2. Reduce the risk of pandemic base animals host to human virus infections.

3. Protect global climate by reducing the land required to clear forest to rear animals and crops.

4. Start a new high tech agro industry for Singapore and create high value added jobs to Singaporean and create export led industry on gourmet meat.

Chapter 4

1. The above proposed agro industry will have created :-

a. High tech lab for food R&D.

b. Create manufacturing plants to mass produce vegan-based meat

c. Food packaging, logistics, food supply chain, marketing

d. Domestic food market

d. Export food industry for overseas market

e. Create many jobs in food R&D, high tech food manufacturing plant, logistic food supply chain, marketing jobs for domestic and overseas market

[1:51 pm, 04/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The root cause of virus pandemic is animals to human host transmission.

Thus inventing and changing food source such as vegan base meat will solve the root cause of centuries of virus pandemic.

Vaccines or treatment for covid-19 is only solving the symptoms of the problems.

Other virus pandemic will still arise if animals to human host transmission is not resolved.

[3:24 pm, 04/08/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So that humans and animals can coexist and live together happily ever after ....

======

[11:34 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

CNA

China's US$1.5 million digital currency giveaway impressed analysts. Shoppers, not so much

19 Oct 2020 05:25PM

The online wallet was accessible via an app, without need for an existing bank account, with payments accepted via smartphone scans in downtown outlets in China's fourth-biggest city, from luxury goods retailers to snack stores.

But this has sparked fears from some overseas observers: if the digital yuan, which operates outside existing financial infrastructure such as Swift, wins international traction, it could undermine U.S. dollar dominance of global payment systems.

Earlier this month, seven central banks including the United States, Britain and Japan, set out key principles for issuing digital currencies.

He said whether ordinary people would shop with digital yuan rather than mobile phone-based payment platforms like WeChat or Alipay " all comes down to incentives, and which 'vendor' gives you more motivation to use it".

Sceptical reactions among some Shenzhen recipients of the giveaway - long used to scanning phones to pay for goods with other systems - showed the central bank and government have work to do in convincing consumers of the benefits of a central bank-backed digital yuan.

"It's especially important to offer convenience and other benefits to promote the use of digital yuan," said G. Bin Zhao, senior economist at PwC China. 

Beijing may bundle it with subsidies, pension accounts, or state sector paychecks, he says, but "for digital yuan to be popularly accepted, banks and other institutions need to invest heavily in applications, marketing and education."

Beijing as it chases what has become a Holy grail among the world's central banks - the first central bank digital currency.

------

[ 12:21 pm, 19/10/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. China is surging ahead with its digital currency - DCEP (digital currency electronic payment).

2. It is a digital epayment wallet and need not have bank account - similar to bitcoins or Facebook Libra - using Blockchain.

3. It is a debt honour by China central bank for epayment.

4. It is independent of yuan currency exchange.

5. Once China people travel overseas, the digital yuan epayment cannot take place unless it is link to their bank account with yuan currency exchange.

7. It is not using internet for digital yuan to effect epayment. Cellular connectivity allow digital yuan via eWallet to facilitate epayment.

6. Singapore should see how our currency exchange can integrate with DCEP to preserve our financial hub with China as yuan currency exchange. Else it may dent our yuan exchange business.

[12:24 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This DCEP is China preemptive move to winch itself out of US SWIFT system - to sidestep US financial sanctions.

[1:44 pm, 09/10/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's incentive must be seen as discount to consumers.

Business must see epayment as cost savings to them - then it will incentivise business to adopt epayment.

[1:47 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

When incentives are given to business and consumers, those who use hard cold cash will have to pay more - which don't make business sense.

Hence the pull and push factors will drive more business and consumers to switch to epayment.

[1:59 pm, 09/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

WeChat and alipay cannabalise China banks.

Now China govt go for digital yuan that will cannabalise WeChat and alipay.

[11:35 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://eurasiantimes.com/imf-admits-china-has-long-overtaken-the-us-as-the-worlds-largest-economy-but-why-is-the-media-silent/

China has overtaken US to be the world economic superpower and become the world largest economy.

[11:35 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

China GDP PPP is $24.2 trillion.

US GDP PPP is $20.8 trillion.

China has overtaken US to be the world economic superpower and has become the world largest economy - according to IMF.

This is 10 years earlier than expected.

----

+changed to +

+ changed to +

-----

[11:41 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/covid-19-vaccination-in-singapore-likely-to-be-rolled-out-from-next-year                                                                     Singapore to start vaccination next year 2021.

Caleb

[11:44 am, 21/10/2020] +: cant be this year liao

[11:45 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

But vaccines also carry the risk of side effects.

So as the population vaccinate, it will still have to be done slowly.

Rama

[11:49 am, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

[11:55 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. So the world has unfold into 2 world as pandemic hit, and as Trump led US-China tension lead to bifurcation.

2. Dual economic track, dual technology track, dual financial track has unfolded.

3. With phase 3 opening, Singapore must be prepared and poised to seize the opportunity of the world bifurcation - whether Nov 3 bring about a change in administration or not.

4. China has turn the table on US and has become the world largest economy.

5. We should seize the opportunity to be able to do business, investment, trade in the 2 world of bifurcation - by making Singapore the gateway of the 2 world of bifurcation.

Rama

[11:56 am, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

[11:59 am, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Someone mentioned we need to have the foresight to survive in this turbulence world.

This is the foresight that we must work on and the opportunity we must seize and the threat to our supply chain and economic threat that we must manage and turn it into opportunity for us.

Valli

[12:11 pm, 21/10/2020] +: +1 

Strongly agree on this. 

Not to be complacent

[12:12 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-s-super-rich-got-us-1-5-trillion-richer-during-covid-19-13320310                                                        China has overtaken US with most number of billionaires. Another indicator that China has overtaken US as the world largest economy.

Ben

[12:14 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Meat alternatives are a huge opportunity, financially and environmentally. Personally I buy Impossible, and I use half the amount I would have with beef to match the cost and also reduced the saturated fats. Meat alternatives are not healthy options but they are way better overall. Singapore could manufacture such meat alternative products and reduce our reliance on overseas imports.

[12:15 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Beyond share price is 8 x its IPO in under 2 years.

[12:15 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As plant based meat become widely available and price come down, more people will buy.

Now still very expensive.

Ben

[12:17 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes agreed. $5 for a Beyond Sausage...!

Blue and White Flag Guy

[12:17 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Aiya everything new will need time to reach cost-parity one lah, SSD, EVs, iPhone 12, you name it

Ben

[12:17 pm, 21/10/2020] +: You're right that if we manufacture here in Singapore we can manage the price better and enable more to buy which then helps reduce costs further.

[12:18 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hopefully less slaughtering of animals, pandemic or epidemic in future will be curb - with less chance of animal virus jumping to infect human.

Climate change can be arrested.

Less animals suffer under the fear of human knife.

Ben

[12:20 pm, 21/10/2020] +: And we can adjust the ingredients over time to make them more healthy!

[12:21 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I think food scientists already doing so.

I think Singapore have food scientists doing this - but price of the final product still very high.

-----

[1:32 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

(1) China

- GDP PPP 2019 = $27.31 trillion

- Reserves = $3 trillion

- Public Debt = $5.48 trillion (internal debt issue in yuan - little risk to China).

US

- GDP PPP 2019 = $21.44 trillion

- Reserves = $140.338 billion (miniscule, almost non noticeable)

- Public Debt = $27.114 trillion (internal & external debt issue in US$- high risk to US).

----

[1:37 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So if China dual currency track succeed, US dollars traction as currency of exchange collapse.

US public debt so high, no backing from China, think US economy can hold up or not?

So Singapore must be a gateway to both yuan and US dollars.

If US currency collapse, we still got yuan.

[1:39 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Trump has make America "great" again - catalyst to "fall great".

Rama

[1:42 pm, 21/10/2020] +: 😂😅🤣😱😨

---

Anne

[2:06 pm, 21/10/2020] +: For every brand new iPhone model the prices keep increasing. But the moment you buy one, your model keeps depreciating.

SL

[2:09 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Phone is for communication, it is our own desire to buy the latest model or old model, whether to buy ios phone or android phone

Rama

[2:10 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Same for new cars once they leave the showroom!

SL

[2:11 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Usd for hard currency will not fail in foreseenable future. Usd got expertise and domain knowledge in Wallstreet that lujiazui does not have.

[2:12 pm, 21/10/2020] +: There are  “imposible meat” sell in supermkt

[2:13 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Don't know.

But US economic direction is like burning money.

Also they live by borrowing.

One day the world lose confident in US currency, US economy collapse.

[2:15 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's US currency become banana money - worthless.

US wealth plummet because it is not back by economic output.

[2:16 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

The world use US currency as exchange - that is why US currency now got value.

The moment the world start not to use US currency for exchange, US wealth plummet.

SL

[2:17 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Usd remain the hard currency as it is an “oil currency” and very stable + their arms forces is the strongest in this world. Usd will not crash. Usa wealth is not plummet during covid19.

[2:18 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Economic output is just a measurement among various tools

[2:19 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心:

China hold about 1 trillion plus of US currency.

Japan also hold the same.

Some other countries combined also hold US currency.

But if China not holding, other countries lose confident - not sure what will happen.

[2:21 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

And yes US has the most powerful arm forces in the world.

When they see their wealth plummet and lose to China - don't know what they will do.

Thus bifurcation has make the world very dangerous.

Trump has make all this becomes possible in his 4 years of presidency.

SL

[2:21 pm, 21/10/2020] +: China hold trillion but they do not dare to sell it below a benchmark level at foreseable future, unless they are looking for instability within its own business sectors or hugh global resession that might lead significant issue which out of control.

Ben

[2:22 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Is US Dollar collapses then their debt collapses too,mostly held by China.

[2:23 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well if China succeed in its dual currency track - US currency has not much leverage against China financial systems - especially if other countries start to use yuan.

[2:23 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not now but in the future.

SL

[2:24 pm, 21/10/2020] +: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22331.pdf

China own 18% as at 2018 only

Ben

[2:26 pm, 21/10/2020] +: You're right China is number 2, after Japan: https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-debt-to-china-how-much-does-it-own-3306355

Anne

[2:26 pm, 21/10/2020] +: For vaccination there are serious concerns:

1) if using mRNA technology which changes our DNA, we need a much much longer timeframe to see the side effects. 

2) Whatever technology is being used, the clinical trials are of concern. There are serious injuries being reported at a few human trials already. Vaccine trials tend to use reactive agents (eg another vaccine or the vaccine’s adjuvants) instead of inert substances as placebo, and this may make the vaccine seem safer than it actually is. Also many injuries can be dismissed as not caused by vaccination. If our G really goes for mandatory vaccination there may be protests, including from doctors.

3) How long does the immunity last? If it lasts only a few months to 1 year then seriously don’t bother unless some people  really need it. We don’t want to keep jabbing every year or every few years.

4) Are the vaccines being tested so ensure they contain only the ingredients declared, or are there additional secret ingredients like mercury or derivatives, nanotechnology stuff designed to give signals that the person is jabbed with that vaccine?

[2:26 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

RCEP and silk routes has pull many countries into China economic domain.

Trump has pull out of TPP and threaten WTO.

The trajectory is China is on the rise economically while US is withdrawing inward.

SL

[2:26 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Usa got Wallstreet, Wallstreet is hundreds yr old

[2:28 pm, 21/10/2020] +: usd is need to trade with oversea.  Bonds raised in usd is with much more lover rate than rmb by china

[2:28 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I am not saying US will lose everything overnight, but China is definitely rising and surpassing US at every front.

SL

[2:39 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Sorry, my point is USA Wallstreet is with hundred over years of expertise, domain expert, standard, system and technology. Lujiazui is new and it need to take more years to surpass USA. 

The first challenge for China in this aspect is RMB is not a hard currency.

China is learning from western and its need decades of surpass USA in term of major fundamental domain knowledge (china now master the knowledge quantum research) with their existing education / teaching methods.

SL

[2:40 pm, 21/10/2020] +: In industry revolution 4, China plus is the purchasing power that supported by it mass populations.

[2:40 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

China is a master strategist.

They don't need hundred years to surpass US.

Give them half chance, they will surpass US.

SL

[2:41 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes, RECP pull many countries into economy domain, lately Sri Langka looking forward to borrow from China again.

[2:43 pm, 21/10/2020] +: I agreed with you that if China got a good chance, they can turned an opportunity into a miracle.

Rama

[2:43 pm, 21/10/2020] +: They will!

[2:43 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Singapore is also another master strategist.

We must know how to position ourselves given the backdrop of this sesimic development.

This is the whole gist of my message.

Rama

[2:44 pm, 21/10/2020] +: We play the middle ground so as not to be seen as one sided.

[2:45 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Remember Mr LKY pull out China from isolation and help China to integrate with the world economy.

China fly, and we benefit along with it.

[2:45 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Yes. 

Middle way should be our way.

Rama

[2:46 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

SL

[2:46 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Govt launch the vaccine to front line officers, will private hospital launch their own to suppliment the govt for market demand?

SL

[2:47 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes, middle way is the best way for now

REACH

[3:20 pm, 21/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/keeping-trade-flowing-while-containing-covid-19-regionally-is-key-to-aseans-recovery-koh

REACH

[3:34 pm, 21/10/2020] +: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-programme-train-educate-dormitories-workers-operators-13327854

SL

[3:40 pm, 21/10/2020] +: What Dr Koh said is correct. On top of it for quick fix, it need visitor with spending power to come to Singapore (example as Thailand and if they are able to synchonised their testing method and the coverage, together with database linked between Thailand  with China, the posibility to reduce 14 days quaranteen into 1 day is likely) because the movement to turned digital take time for business and not sure business owners willing to spend that money in current enviroment.

[3:48 pm, 21/10/2020] +: “Education will be provided to dormitory residents”, unsure the assurance team will conduct 24/7 checking to ensure that residents follow rules? Also not sure how a measurement of risk indicator can be deployed and is there any detecting measure if residents violated? Unclear whether any follow up by a ractify action (containment and cure) within a hugh population.

REACH

[4:10 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Singapore reports 12 new Covid-19 cases, which are all imported. There are no new cases in the community. 

https://str.sg/J6nD

[4:18 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Wow sudden jump.

But luckily all imported.

Isolated and well contain.

Just now while walking on the road, notice 3 old man don't wear mask and walk openly.

This people start to get complacent.

Rama

[4:19 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Complacency can delay phase 3 if gets out of hand!

[4:20 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I thought is unlawful.

But when I look at them, they seem like tidak apa.

Rama

[4:21 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Money has not come out of their pockets nor have they experienced changi hotel!

Timothy Low

[4:22 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Read on one Facebook group that some Budget airlines are increasing the number of flights to Singapore. That country already have 7.6 million cases and counting

[4:22 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahahaha.

I just stare at them and walk away.

I don't want to tell them off in case they pick up a fight.

Valli

[4:22 pm, 21/10/2020] +: I have observed complacency in all areas. 

Workplace, 

commuting to office , playgrounds 

Malls 

Bus interchanges

REACH

[4:23 pm, 21/10/2020] +: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/augmented-reality-push-among-tech-initiatives-to-help-tourism-businesses-transform

[4:23 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sometimes old man can be very fierce nowadays and can fight very well

Rama

[4:24 pm, 21/10/2020] +: India!?

Rama

[4:25 pm, 21/10/2020] +: CCTV  with facial recognition and sda should be enhanced.

[4:27 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Ah CCTV should help.

I spotted 2 cctv in front of him while the old man without mask happily update his bank books.

Valli

[4:27 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Any slip ups from these imported cases , will trigger transmission. 

Especially those who have recovered from Covid-19 are of the mindset that they have immunity

Rama

[4:28 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Hong kong recently ban flights from india because of this!

[4:28 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Big mistake!

Timothy Low

[4:29 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Now I’m worried SQ is going to resume flight to USA

Valli

[4:29 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Agree

Rama

[4:29 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Internet says half of India's population will be affected befor the coming deepavali celebrations!

[4:30 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Is our government going to allow our medical Services to be overwhelmed!?

CQ

[4:33 pm, 21/10/2020] +: please lah... resuming direct non-stop flights to the US when they're not even trying to control the Covid situation is the most mind-boggling decision ever lor. how's that lower risk than re-opening karaoke and bars? 🙄

REACH

[4:33 pm, 21/10/2020] +: [Sent by Gov.sg – 21 Oct]

As of 12pm, MOH has preliminarily confirmed that there are no new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection. 

There are 12 imported cases who had been placed on Stay-Home Notice upon arrival in Singapore. 

MOH will share further updates in its press release that will be issued later tonight.

go.gov.sg/moh21octupdate

Rama

[4:34 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Economic survival surpasses everything!

[4:38 pm, 21/10/2020] +: 🤣😅😂😱😨

Boon

[5:21 pm, 21/10/2020] +: 👍

[5:28 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

SIA to restart flights to New York amid 'early signs of optimism' in air travel recovery

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/singapore-airlines-sia-restart-flights-new-york-jfk-covid-19-13321000

Jimmy Chew

[5:29 pm, 21/10/2020] +: If we're complacent and the Numbers are low. Means we're good. My philosophy be responsible to them but not for them. Let them get Covid

[5:30 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I read this new article again and notice that our air flight to New York are mainly for :-

1. Cargo freight

2. Transit passengers.

Not open up for tourists.

Thus our chances of imported infection not very likely.

[5:31 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

By opening up to US air hub, it will help to rejuvenate our long haul flight and reboot our air hub.

Jimmy Chew

[5:33 pm, 21/10/2020] +: And make history also

[5:33 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

These will not lead to virus affecting our local community.

Jimmy Chew

[5:34 pm, 21/10/2020] +: I walked pass my CC

[5:34 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Long Q

[5:34 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Think is for TT

CQ

[5:36 pm, 21/10/2020] +: I might be missing something, but the transit passengers part is stated as an "also", which means there are passengers who do not fall into the transfer category.

[5:38 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not sure.

But as far as I know, unless there is green lane, overseas travellers cannot come through our immigration and walk into our country.

Thus I think they are only for transit passengers in transit areas and then fly off.

Rama

[5:38 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Point 2 has the possibility to pass on transmission locally still. Period of transit in terminal can be a contributing factor.

[5:40 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Thus face masks, social distancing, test etc must kick in and isolate in the transit areas and not let it come in and infect the local community.

I think Singapore in this aspect is doing very well.

Rama

[5:40 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Agree

CQ

[5:41 pm, 21/10/2020] +: This I agree. As long as it's not open to direct travel, it should be fine.

Rama

[5:41 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

[5:44 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

[5:44 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

As we open up to Phase 3, we expect to become bolder and take calculated risk but cannot be complacent.

Like the 3 old man not wearing face masks are complacent.

Phase 3 allow us to let our domestic economy and certain aspects of our external economy to resume business with safeguard in place.

Our external economy form 3 times the size of our GDP.

If we don't restart our external economy, many of our people will still have no jobs.

CQ

[5:44 pm, 21/10/2020] +: i'm a bit sad that the family visits are still going to be limited to 8 people at each time though. it'll be very hard to gather with the extended family

Rama

[5:44 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Likewise

[5:45 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Festive seasons around the corner!

CQ

[5:46 pm, 21/10/2020] +: yah.... i can understand if it's going out lah. but if we're going over to just 1 person's house to gather and that's all we do, i can't see why that's not ok though...

Rama

[5:46 pm, 21/10/2020] +: 😔😟

[5:46 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

I don't expect all my siblings family members to crowd into my parents place with few dozen of children and grandchildren surrounding them.

We need to protect our elders.

Hence will still rely on video conferencing or quick visit - until everyone are vaccinated.

CQ

[5:48 pm, 21/10/2020] +: don't say few dozen lah, but if you limit to 12 or 15 within one extended family, i think it's not unreasonable. 12 will be like 3 nucleus families (father mother 2 kids) going over to grandma/grandpa's place

[5:50 pm, 21/10/2020] +: but having said that, i do recognise that enforcement would be difficult. like how can you tell if it's a bunch of friends going to one fella's place to party or it's family? but ah well.... there's always a risk based approach, i'm sure 8 is a number which our MMTF would've considered

[5:50 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well, cny is for all extended family members to meet and eat.

If got restrictions, it is not a reunion dinner.

But I am willing to trade and give up next year reunion dinner for safety for my parents and my siblings families until everyone are vaccinated.

Rama

[5:51 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Tough choices to make!

CQ

[5:58 pm, 21/10/2020] +: i think the vaccine won't happen so soon, and even so, i would like SG to rollout the vaccine only after it's confirmed to be safe. there had been a few vaccines where tests were halted when unexpected side effects were reported.

Rama

[5:59 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Priority is frontline essential Services personal.

[6:01 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

That's why the most likely scenario is that we need to wait for another year, likely to be end 2021 or early 2022 - in order to see the end of the tunnel.

Rama

[6:01 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Yes

CQ

[6:02 pm, 21/10/2020] +: yah, and that's fine lah. i don't mind having a mask as a main-stay forever. can save money on make-up. :P

[6:02 pm, 21/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Hahahaha.

Ron Ho

[6:14 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Recently, imported cases have much higher cases vs local community. I am guessing these people were caught at incoming tests at port of entry. Which means the vessel they were in must have others who tested negative. If this is true, and as the incubation period is up to 14 days, even those who tested negative could at some future point become positive. This means they have infiltrated into the community?? Can someone with some knowledge please help to clarify? Thanks.

Rama

[6:21 pm, 21/10/2020] +: https://mothership.sg/2020/10/singapore-thailand-special-tourist-visa/

+changed to +

REACH

[6:45 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors!

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Megan

[6:45 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Megan

Rama

[6:54 pm, 21/10/2020] +: 👌🤙👍✋🙏👏

REACH

[7:00 pm, 21/10/2020] +: Hi REACH Contributors,

We will be closing the chat for today.

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Good Night!😴

Megan ☺

+changed this group's settings to allow only admins to send messages to this group.

=======

REACH 154 - What do you think of tripartite partners’ updated retrenchment framework (SK)

19 Oct 2020 (11am - 7pm)

REACH

[10:29 am, 19/10/2020] +: Over $5.5b to be paid out in Jobs Support Scheme from Oct 29

Over $5.5 billion under the Jobs Support Scheme (JSS) will be paid out to more than 140,000 employers from Oct 29, to help them retain their workers amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

This will help businesses pay the wages of some 1.9 million local employees, the Ministry of Finance (MOF) said on Monday (Oct 19).

With this latest round of payouts, the total amount disbursed under the scheme will exceed $21.5 billion, said the ministry in a joint statement with the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (Iras).

More: https://str.sg/J6Y8

REACH

[10:48 am, 19/10/2020] +: Dear contributors,

Welcome back! 😊

⏰ We will be opening the chat from 11 am to 7 pm today. ⏰

House Rules (short version of our Terms of Use) to keep in mind: 

1. Be kind and respectful. We all want to be in a safe space to share our views. 

2. Any and all threatening, abusive, vulgar or racially, religiously and ethnically objectionable content is prohibited.

3. Consider the quiet ones among us and give them a chance to comment.

4. No need to repeat your comment or in different forms (including caps) - we heard you loud and clear the first time.

5. Let’s protect each other’s privacy and keep contact details in this group what it should always be - confidential. 

Full set of Terms of Use: https://go.gov.sg/reach-whatsapp-terms

We will strive to uphold these rules to ensure this is a safe space for all. Thank you.

The topic will be posted shortly.

Megan 😊

+ changed the group description. Click to view.

REACH

[11:00 am, 19/10/2020] +: 📢 Topic 📢

What do you think of tripartite partners’ updated retrenchment framework? 

A day after the National Wages Council issued fresh guidelines on pay, tripartite partners followed up with an updated framework for retrenchments signalling that the job situation ahead remains grim. 

Employers must ensure objective criteria, such as ability, experience and skills, are used should they need to retrench workers. They should also lean towards retaining Singaporeans, while recognising the importance of permanent residents in their workforce. 

"The tripartite advisory on managing excess manpower and responsible retrenchment calls on employers to lean in favour of Singapore citizens," said a Ministry of Manpower (MOM) spokesman. 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/firms-told-to-be-responsible-sensitive-if-retrenching-staff 

👉 https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/jobs/employers-may-implement-temporary-wage-cuts-to-save-jobs-national-wages-council

+ changed this group's settings to allow all participants to send messages to this group.

-----

Rama

[11:05 am, 19/10/2020] +: Still room for manipulation!

REACH

[11:34 am, 19/10/2020] +: 1,900 jobs on offer in growing electronics manufacturing industry since April, nearly all in PMET roles

The electronics industry continues to grow amid the coronavirus pandemic and there are some 1,900 jobs on offer since April, the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) said on Monday (Oct 19).

The vast majority of these jobs are for professionals, managers, executives and technicians (PMETs), with the majority in technical roles.

Speaking at a press briefing after a visit to semiconductor firm GlobalFoundries on Monday, Manpower Minister Josephine Teo said that while some may think that they need a technical background to work in the electronics and larger manufacturing sector, this is not necessarily the case, even if many of the jobs on offer are technical roles.

More: https://str.sg/J6Yj

[11:51 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. Business environment still grim.

2. Job prospects likely to be poor, retrenchment likely.

3. Union, government, employers must work closely to minimise retrenchment, take pay cut as 1st choice and if not possible, train workers to take jobs in growing sectors.

[11:52 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

S'poreans snap up SIA dining offers to support airline, enjoy experience

18 Oct 2020

More than 900 seats that were available for SIA's Restaurant A380 @ Changi dining experience were sold within 30 minutes of bookings opening on Oct 12. Prices ranged from $50 for economy to $600 for Suites.

Two aircraft will be deployed, with guests occupying about half the seats to stick to safe distancing guidelines.

Ms Amy Tay booked a Suites lunch for Oct 25 using the 80,250 KrisFlyer miles she took years to accumulate.

Tech consultant Felix Wee, 28, who has secured a spot for a Suites lunch on Oct 24 is worried SIA, which does not have a domestic market, cannot recover as quickly as airlines elsewhere

------

.

[12:04 pm, 21/08/2020 ] ☸️  Danny 心: 

My comments -

"SIA is now burning money.

Analysts say that airlines can only rebounds 2024 - 4 years later.

Now barely a few months, all money raised $8 over billion - half have been used up.

https://sg.yahoo.com/news/singapore-air-burns-through-half-of-cash-raised-in-two-months-022446513.html

My close friend contribution :-

SIA can explore this :-

Instead of visiting the airport, visitors also take a fake air flight with in-flight meal.

Not a bad idea as airlines can also earn revenue through such passenger visit.

Revenue not great but in support of SIA, enjoy a meal enjoy in flight entertainment. Can also have fake captain announcements.

A whole package approach -

And this is package with sg local tours and staycation initiatives.

Check in thru changi airport, board flight, enjoy meal, in flight entertainment, "disembark" received by local tour guides, check into sg hotels. Etc

Impt to invoke nationalistic response to help sg companies and businesses

Asian financial crisis, south Koreans aunties and grannies donated their gold jewelleries.

=======

[11:52 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

=======

My close friend comments: Got to sleep over inside first class cabin? If not, SIA should also offer overnight stay in first class cabin for Singaporeans too. Those who cannot usually or never ever able to afford first cabin can book a one dinner, one night sleep over on SQ plane.

My comments: Hahahaha.

SIA only offer 3 hour 1st class suite lunch or dinner.

No overnight sleep.

I think fly to nowhere - overnight sleep then is possible.

But environmentalist make noise.

My close friend comments: No need to fly. Just operate like staycation.

My comments: Possible.

But the price I think will have to be higher.

My close friend comments: Of course, just squeeze out every opportunity for revenue or 坐以待毙

My comments : Yes I agree.

My close friend comments: The novelty will frizzle out. Just target this coming school holidays.

======

[11:55 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Beware financial crisis emerging: World Bank

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/economy/beware-financial-crisis-emerging-world-bank

Ana

[11:55 am, 19/10/2020] +: I think there'll definitely be a lot of employers who cut locals' wages in the name of productivity. Also wouldn't be surprised if the same firms later on hire 'cheaper' expats in the meantime.

There are no repercussions for not protecting Singaporean jobs

Berny

[11:57 am, 19/10/2020] +: "The tripartite advisory on managing excess manpower and responsible retrenchment calls on employers to lean in favour of Singapore citizens," said a Ministry of Manpower (MOM) spokesman. "

This sentence worries me, while I'm in favour of protecting Singapore citizens, will the overprotection make the workers complacent and somehow have a drop in productivity, knowing that they will be "protected" somehow, against the retrenchment as compared to foreigners?

[11:58 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Fed officials call for tougher regulation to prevent asset bubbles: FT

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/fed-officials-call-for-tougher-regulation-prevent-asset-bubbles-13304652                                                          Zero interest rate has the risk of people investing in property and toxic assets --- that will lead to "asset bubble" ---- similar to US sub-prime crisis - that trigger global financial crisis.

[11:59 am, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

RCEP agreement to be inked in November: Thai ministry

Source: Xinhua Published: 2020/10/17 9:08:13

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1203746.shtml

[12:01 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Admist the slew of bad news, a good news is, the largest mammoth multilateral trade deal will be ready to be ink in Nov 2020.

Ana

[12:01 pm, 19/10/2020] +: I doubt so. These are tough times. More protection for Singaporeans are severely needed. We can't keep using the same unproven claims of laziness and lack of productivity to keep Singaporeans at a disadvantage

Berny

[12:02 pm, 19/10/2020] +: I agree with you, that is why I am in favour of that sentence

[12:12 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Explainer: How is China's digital currency different from other e-payments?

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMifWh0dHBzOi8vbmV3cy5jZ3RuLmNvbS9uZXdzLzIwMjAtMTAtMTcvRXhwbGFpbmVyLUhvdy1DaGluYS1zLWRpZ2l0YWwtY3VycmVuY3ktZGlmZmVyZW50LWZyb20tZS1wYXltZW50cy0tVUZyTUhFRFlzdy9pbmRleC5odG1s0gGBAWh0dHBzOi8vbmV3cy5jZ3RuLmNvbS9uZXdzLzIwMjAtMTAtMTcvRXhwbGFpbmVyLUhvdy1DaGluYS1zLWRpZ2l0YWwtY3VycmVuY3ktZGlmZmVyZW50LWZyb20tZS1wYXltZW50cy0tVUZyTUhFRFlzdy9zaGFyZV9hbXAuaHRtbA?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

[12:12 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Explainer: Will China beat other countries in the global race for digital currency?

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-08-09/Will-China-beat-other-countries-in-the-global-digital-currency-race--SOiSzF6kms/index.html

[12:12 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

BOJ official downplays fears over China's digital currency

https://japantoday.com/category/tech/BOJ-official-downplays-fears-over-China's-digital-currency

Alvin

[12:20 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Just curious for these frameworks, how often are they enforced if any at all? How are they measured? etc

It’s quite pointless to ask for public perception if it doesn’t translate to benefits on the ground. That’s my 2.14 cents..

[12:21 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

1. China is surging ahead with its digital currency - DCEP (digital currency electronic payment).

2. It is a digital epayment wallet and need not have bank account - similar to bitcoins or Facebook Libra - using Blockchain.

3. It is a debt honour by China central bank for epayment.

4. It is independent of yuan currency exchange.

5. Once China people travel overseas, the digital yuan epayment cannot take place unless it is link to their bank account with yuan currency exchange.

7. It is not using internet for digital yuan to effect epayment. Cellular connectivity allow digital yuan via eWallet to facilitate epayment.

6. Singapore should see how our currency exchange can integrate with DCEP to preserve our financial hub with China as yuan currency exchange. Else it may dent our yuan exchange business.

[12:22 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Else it may also affect some banks job.

[12:24 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This DCEP is China preemptive move to winch itself out of US SWIFT system - to sidestep US financial sanctions.

[12:26 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Others security development in Asia Pacific region....

To take note....

[12:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://thediplomat.com/2015/08/satellite-imagery-from-china-suggests-mock-invasion-of-taiwan/

China has mock replica of Taiwan presidential palace for military training.

Military drill include storming the presidential office.

[12:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://youtu.be/GSKWcLDD07s

[12:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOTtPV-aFArH2-IixlFhYlAqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMNegxwU?hl=en-SG&gl=SG&ceid=SG%3Aen

China is taking action against Taiwan sovereignty starting with Pratas Island via HK.

[12:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEM8pyGRKIwn-MI9c8SQF0ikqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowief2CjCJ2dUCMKqaxwU

[12:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/trump-aide-urges-taiwan-fortify-211517509.html

[12:28 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: U

S and China tension admist US election...  How it affects Asia Pacific region....

[12:29 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/article/3105738/us-military-academics-devote-half-coursework-china-says-defence-chief

US devote half of military academy time based on countering China.

All these are scary development.

During WW2, Japan military academy similarly devote time in their course on how to invade China.

Eventually, Japan invade China during WW2.

[12:29 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/american-hostility-means-china-t-104712386.html

China increasing nuclear arsenal in the midst of US hostility.

[12:29 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3098727/chinese-military-rocket-force-drills-prepare-possible-us?utm_source=Yahoo&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=contentexchange&utm_content=3105862

China prepare for possible US nuclear attack.

[12:29 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

If Trump lose in Nov 3, China fear that Trump may create a crisis before he handover power by starting a war with China.

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/what-china-fears-about-nov-3

[1:14 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Because Trump blame China unleashing the China virus and make him lose his election.

Berny

[1:15 pm, 19/10/2020] +: But trump was the one who did not managed to control the spread within his own country, there's no way he can push the blame to others for that

[1:15 pm, 19/10/2020] +: and also, he was the one who said that mask wasn't necessary before he got hit with the symptoms

[1:16 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Well everyone knows that Trump is erratic.

Berny

[1:17 pm, 19/10/2020] +: well, that doesnt mean that he can blame others for that

[1:17 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

So let's hold our breath and await what happens after Nov 3.

Alvin

[1:23 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Wah wall of monologue + 999999 dmg

REACH

[1:27 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Hi everyone, let’s keep to today’s topic :) thanks!

Rama

[1:27 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Yes

[1:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Doesn't mean it will happen.

The region had one close one - trump Vs North Korea.

It was defuse in the last minute.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:27 pm, 19/10/2020] +: OG MEGAN LAI LIAO HAHAHAHA

Rama

[1:27 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Yes

Phyllis

[1:28 pm, 19/10/2020] +: HUH.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:32 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Come I add to topic, I totally agree with Alvin's 2.14 cents ah, if gahmen don't protect, no matter how much it tries to talk to us, also no use one

[1:41 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/union-leaders-unhappy-with-workers-party-mp-jamus-lims-remarks-on-minimum-wage                                          As expected, Union unhappy with Jamus Lim minimum wages.

Rama

[1:42 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Folksy!?🤷‍♀️

[1:44 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

"The whole process in formulating this PWM is not based on mere 'folksy beliefs' - it is thoroughly negotiated based on hard data and a firm grasp of current workers' issues," he said. He added that with the PWM for the lift and escalator sector, entry-level lift technicians will earn minimally $1,850 per month.

"How would the proposed minimum wage of $1,300 even be meaningful? A minimum wage is too simplistic and does not reflect the realities of this sector," he said in his letter.

[1:45 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

This is the problem with minimum wage $1300.

It is plug from the air - not grounded on economic basis.

REACH

[1:46 pm, 19/10/2020] +: New polyclinic at Bidadari to be located along Upper Aljunied Road, development to include nursing home

An upcoming polyclinic in the Bidadari estate, to be located along Upper Aljunied Road, will be part of an integrated development with a nursing home to “serve the needs of residents in the vicinity”.

This was announced on Monday (Oct 19) by Senior Minister of State for the Ministry of Health (MOH) Dr Janil Puthucheary.

The polyclinic, which is expected to be ready by 2027, will be located near the Alkaff Lakeview Housing and Development Board (HDB) cluster, about 500m from Woodleigh MRT station, MOH said in a press release.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/new-polyclinic-bidadari-upper-aljunied-road-nursing-home-moh-13312700

Alvin

[1:49 pm, 19/10/2020] +: I’m a man of hard facts and numbers. If the updated framework works, it should show in the numbers. Eg, it takes retrenched workers 1 year to find new job last time now it takes only 6 months

[1:50 pm, 19/10/2020] +: But of cos it doesn’t mean that it’s just the framework alone, the situation of lockdown etc may have played a part

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:50 pm, 19/10/2020] +: And Berny did make a good point of balance when he said about how some Singaporeans might end up becoming complacent due to the protection

Alvin

[1:50 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Hence I always say correlation is not causation

[1:50 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Yes agreed on that too

[1:51 pm, 19/10/2020] +: There are some jobs that no locals wanna take up and some we don’t have the expertise

[1:51 pm, 19/10/2020] +: So need to juggle

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:51 pm, 19/10/2020] +: I remember debating so furiously about the latter part, people just don't understand how some jobs are too "out of the league" for locals

Alvin

[1:53 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Eg Rail Engineer

[1:53 pm, 19/10/2020] +: I think Nat understands it first hand

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:53 pm, 19/10/2020] +: For this job in particular hor there are many Indian nationals out there trained it it, but always looking for a job for some reason

Alvin

[1:57 pm, 19/10/2020] +: https://www.facebook.com/147858757571/posts/10158253073292572/?extid=0&d=n

[1:58 pm, 19/10/2020] +: For instance in a mgft plant not many are qualified for engineer roles

[1:58 pm, 19/10/2020] +: You many offer high salary but there’s only so much qualified locals to go around

Blue and White Flag Guy

[1:58 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Real brain drain issue there

Alvin

[1:58 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Business need to work together to automate jobs if not they need to share engineers if their businesses are critical and require engineers

Anne

[2:15 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Are you ok?

Alvin

[2:16 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Internal injury lol

 

Desmond Koh

[3:15 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Govt need time to set up the cloud as announced in late 2018, so 2 years is ok :P

btw VMWare is not part of the equation 😅

[3:27 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

VMware is a private cloud solution.

I am just using it for illustration.

Ben

[3:30 pm, 19/10/2020] +: It's not cloud tech. It's a Virtual Machine. Just sayin'

[3:31 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Not only VM.

It also have cloud solution.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:31 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Sots faiyered pew pew 🔫

[3:32 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

It is available in 2017.

I set it up in my lab.

[3:37 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Check up Google :-

VMware cloud.

 

Vdi.

 

Desmond Koh

[3:38 pm, 19/10/2020] +: 😂

[3:42 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Sorry I set up in 2015 and post in 2017.

Desmond Koh

[3:45 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Sorry... let’s stop here, was just replying about the tech difficulties and differences ☺️

Let’s focus back to today’s topics

REACH

[3:47 pm, 19/10/2020] +: 4 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, no locally transmitted infections

Four new COVID-19 cases were reported in Singapore as of noon on Monday (Oct 19), the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its daily preliminary update. 

All four infections were imported cases who were placed on stay-home notice upon their arrival in Singapore, said MOH. No locally transmitted COVID-19 cases were reported. 

Details of the cases will be announced on Monday night, said the ministry.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-oct-19-community-imported-dormitory-moh-13311418

Blue and White Flag Guy

[3:52 pm, 19/10/2020] +: You leh bro, any input on the topic yourself? 🤭

Ben

[4:24 pm, 19/10/2020] +: "VMWare Cloud" is different from "VMWare". The details are important, so thanks for clarifying what you meant. Back to today's topic :)

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:24 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Somebahdee call the wambulance 🚑

Berny

[4:25 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Non emergency call 1777

Blue and White Flag Guy

[4:25 pm, 19/10/2020] +: HAHAHA

REACH

[4:39 pm, 19/10/2020] +: From public officers and volunteers, to businesses and the wider community, Singapore rose together as one in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic. 

Be inspired by their stories in the short film series, As One.

Catch the films at go.gov.sg/as-one

#AsOneSG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5q4xuBsp-w

REACH

[4:42 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Walking, cycling and kayaking tours now allowed for groups of up to 20

The maximum group size for walking, cycling and kayaking tours will be increased from 10 to 20 from Nov 1, the Singapore Tourism Board (STB) said on Monday (Oct 19).

This number excludes the tour guide.

Tour participants must still remain in sub-groups of five – the prevailing social gathering group limit, STB said in the news release.

Those in the same sub-group may interact with one another. Those from different sub-groups, however, are to maintain a safe distance of at least 1m and avoid intermingling at all times.

More: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/walking-cycling-kayaking-tours-groups-stb-singaporediscovers-13313058

------

Desmond Koh

[5:16 pm, 19/10/2020] +: 🚑🚨

[5:20 pm, 19/10/2020] +: No la is beside the point when we talk about cloud, we are talking about remote browsing and is not VMWare as the example u cited...

https://www.xtremax.com/press-releases/gcci-press-release

“in the likes of Amazon Web Services (AWS), Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud Platform.” VMware is not a native cloud per se.. if they are, it will be part of GCC liao lor!!

[5:31 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Straits Times

Most S'pore public servants will have secure Internet access on work laptops from Nov 2

Lester Wong

PUBLISHED 15 October 2020

The majority of the 146,000 public servants here will be able to access the Internet securely without the need for a separate device come Nov 2, thanks to a new remote browsing technology solution.

Secure Internet Surfing (SIS) will allow public servants to use their work laptops when surfing the Internet for information. They will also be able to log in to social media sites to make text-based posts, as well as open links directly from e-mails and documents, the Smart Nation and Digital Government Group (SNDGG) said on Thursday (Oct 15).

SNDGG said the roll-out of SIS, which was made possible by recent advances in remote browsing technology, will improve productivity across the public service.

Remote browsing technology works by creating an isolated container which handles all Internet content accessed by the user and prevents direct interaction between government systems and malware or viruses lurking on the Internet.

The container can also be configured to filter out certain types of content deemed unsafe to further reduce the risks of malware infection and data theft.

Public servants on SIS will also be able to upload files to the Internet, but only for approved websites.

--

Posted on :- 12 Nov 2018

Ricky Lim

Virtual browser can be a permanent solution to resolve the Internet temporary Internet Surfing Separation (ISS).

A separate physical internet device need not be procured to do the virtual browser.

The same intranent end device can launch virtual browser to browse Internet without needing to use separate internet device to surf Internet.

Like · Reply · 1m

Ricky Lim

PROTECTION OF STAFF INTERNET SURFING

Posted on :- 06 Aug 2018 03:17PM (Updated: 06 Aug 2018 03:27PM)

Ricky Lim

Virtual browser solution will be like the VMWare VDI (Virtual Desktop Infrastructure) ThinApp or Citrix thin client - whereby it inherit the following security features :-

(1) It operates with a virtual server.

(2) The virtual server will maintain a golden virtual desktop clone.

(3) When the desktop client login to the virtual server, the virtual server will download a virtual desktop clone to the client.

(4) the virtual desktop client - come with its operating system and web browser - that is logically segregated from the client physical desktop.

(5) It means that users can make use of the virtual client to browse the internet - but any files cannot be saved into the desktop physical client and vice versa.

Thus any attack from the internet via the virtual client will be limited to the virtual client and cannot take over the physical client that connect to the intranet.

(6) When user logout from the virtual server, its virtual client will disappear.

This is a safe approach to browse internet without physical separation from the internet.

Like · Reply · 1m · Edited

Ricky Lim

This is the same concept of :-

色即是空，空即是色。

"Physical is Virtual, Virtual is Physical".

Like · Reply · 1m\

Ricky Lim

It should be noted that :-

(1) The Virtual Server that dish out virtual clients to the desktop users - should be hosted in a Public DMZ - protected by the following slew of security measures :-

a. Firewall - where ACL is to filter inbound and outbound internet traffic restricted to Public DMZ only and not allow to enter the Intranet.

b. SSL Decryptor - to decrypt web content to allow for deep packet inspection.

b. APT (Advanced Persistent Threat) - to perform Virtual Patching for zero-day attack, deep inspection on content, application and user, sandbox detonation for unknown threat, flag, display and alert known threat.

c. Full Web Reverse Proxy, and Forward Proxy.

d. WAF - Web Application Firewall to protect against SQL injection, Cross scripting.

e. IPS - Intrusion Prevention System to monitor, detect, alert, respond, protect against known threat and unknown threat.

Like · Reply · 1m

Desomnd Koh

[5:37 pm, 19/10/2020] +: 😬

-------

Anne

[5:25 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Need a few ambulances... one not enough.

Blue and White Flag Guy

[5:25 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Hahaha we are sooooo bad!!

Alvin

[6:03 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Back to today's topic. Regardless of tripartite framework changes, PWM or any other policies, as long as the public feels it's working, you rarely see any response. My suggestions is for the Gov to have measurable kpi numbers to measure these outcomes with some margin of error. If it's good, people will feel it and reap its benefits. There will be little feedback from them but on the other hand if you start hearing "noises" then it's time for G to take a closer look at the source. My 2.14 cents

Blue and White Flag Guy

[6:04 pm, 19/10/2020] +: So true, people only make noise when something isn't working to their favour lol

REACH

[6:45 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Dear Contributors!

⏰ We will be closing the chat in 15 minutes* ⏰

Thank you very much for being part of our WhatsApp chat and participating actively.

Goodnight!

Megan

==========

[6:45 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Megan

Blue and White Flag Guy

[6:45 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Hahaha poor OG Megan, hope your shift today okok :33

REACH

[6:46 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Counting cents. 🤣. ok just joking

Blue and White Flag Guy

[6:46 pm, 19/10/2020] +: HAHAHA GOLDEN JOKE I TELL YA

Rama

[6:46 pm, 19/10/2020] +: ✋🤙👏🙏👌👍

Alvin

[6:47 pm, 19/10/2020] +: gdnite Megan!

[6:48 pm, 19/10/2020] +: pls let us know if gst increase cos no more 0.14 cents liao need to update :3

[6:48 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: 

Tengah offering central Aircon system to residents - I believe is DCS (district cooling system).

Wonder why not roll out to HDB residents.

Then no need to buy individual Aircon.

[6:50 pm, 19/10/2020] ☸️  Danny 心: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/nearly-1000-households-in-tengah-have-signed-up-for-centralised-cooling-system

REACH

[6:49 pm, 19/10/2020] +: well just up to 3.142 cents la. XD

Blue and White Flag Guy

[6:49 pm, 19/10/2020] +: Aigoo ok next year celebrate Pi day with you ok 🤭

======